Good to see you are back! Your videos are really helpful for a newbie like me to learn the game. Still hoping you will finish your series on Heresy 2.0
It's interesting to see how the perception of power level has changed since these rules came out. Iron warriors is an example of a rule a lot of people were excited about, and that we now know is pretty useless. And Space Wolves, that everyone belittled to no end, is now basically an auto-take in competitive play.
Great to have you back, your videos are such a great resource in grasping the general concepts of HH, I recommend them to anyone trying to get into Heresy. Your Legion guides, your unit guides, they are incredibly useful in structuring a lot of the very many choices you have in list building in a way that actually helps rather than overwhelm.
So glad I found your channel, easily the best Horus Heresy channel on UA-cam! As for me, I'll be matching my Legions Imperialis army to my 30K army and represent the glorious First Legion, the Dark Angels!
My starter box came in the mail today - pretty stoked. Of course, in classic GW style, the miniatures in the starter set don't make a legal force, since the Legion demi-company can only have one battle tank detachment, and there's two in the starter box. So to remedy that, I ordered a kratos squadron to make an armored company. Was really hard not to order a whole bunch of extras, but I'll wait for the additional releases to see what I want in my army.
The starter box is pretty bad as a starter army yeh (even though its good value by gw standards). Feels like it needed to be bigger but they wanted to keep it cheap. Oh well, we were going to buy more anyway, right :)
@@Hearesy yeah. Especially that it doesn't come with any terrain. I went with the starter + kratos tanks because I wanted to get my hands on the rules first, and figure out how I want to build my army first. Right now I'm leaning towards another box of infantry, another kratos, and maybe a thunderhawk, then focus on getting the auxilia to 1500, and then we'll see
Great video! I’m glad I’m not getting shafted, just started putting my 1500 pts of Iron Warriors together. I went infantry heavy with 3 demi companies nearly identical; Hq, 2 Tac(+4ml each), contemptor talon, 9 rhinos. Then added a Fire raptor, a warhound, and a couple extra rhines to get to 1499.
Yes! I am looking forward to this video. I am still rewatching your content from time to time and am really excited. Alas I'm not into Imperialis. Will still watch it. :)
Just came across your channel. I always thought Imperialus was the right scale for Horus Heresy with seeing the full size of these battles with titans, armour and aircraft. I also like 28mm so it's a hard decision between Age of DARKNESS or Imperialus
In the couple games I've played with Raven guard the infiltrate hasn't helped one bit. They get bombed by my opponents Marauder as soon as it's on table in the movement phase. Collosus bombs are nasty
I honestly think the Death Guard have the ability to really mess with an enemy’s tactics depending on how they use their Dangerous Terrain ability. Turning an Objective Area or Building into Dangerous Terrain can be nasty. Adding to the fact that they ignore Dangerous Terrain themselves, that can be really beneficial.
@@HearesyI couldn't disagree more with regard to it being "inconsequential". I think it will be useful every single game. 1. It makes it very difficult for the enemy to funnel your troops. 2. You can put the enemy off entering up to 4 buildings by boobytrapping them...if there is an objective in a building you have boobytrapped, they will be risking death entering and exiting said building. 3. You can pass through boobytrapped objectives without a care. How is that not super useful? General consensus online is it's one of the stronger legion abilities.
Nice discussion. Personally I think Imperial Fists should been the top of above average or even the bottom of the top tier. Giving practically all infantry accurate when infantry is so good and really bumps up the damage output. Obviously combining them with one of the infiltrating detachments is very very strong.
Disagree with the Death Guards, I think they are average, the ability to drop dangerous terrain (likely) on at least one objective and thus tip the balance on that (or those if multiple) objectives decisively to the Death Guard player is worthy of Well-Balanced tier. Poor Space Wolves truly have the worst rule, but ironically their Legion rule is actually potentially one of the ways to nerf the influence of the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion infiltraters. Weird but true.
They should really add a points cost to legion traits. At 35pts for a basic marine base they are already too cheap when compared to 30pts for las troops
I appreciate the discussion on choice of army and tier list at the end, but man do I feel the actual available range is rather... anemic. The Solar don't have access to big artillery yet, a bunch of dreadnoughts are still coming, and the White Scars don't even have bikes!
Will still play them but oh man the Thousand Sons ability is just bad. Commanders already have an invulnerable save. Magnus did wrong sure, but not enough to deserve this. Nice to see you’re back
Not shut down, just "slightly reduce the power of". In most missions they can even still be on the centre objectives despite the SW ability. But since the Space Wolves have no other ability, their ability means RG or AL get a reduced power ability... which is still more than the Wolves have got. So still a bad trade off for them!
What about weapons with demolisher with buildings being so important I foresee MANY players bringing Bombers and titans that can easily destroy the buildings and infantry with the n
The way of the true fan! I told myself I was playing Iron Hands even if they were bad, but Im not sure how faithful I would have been when it came to the crunch, haha.
@@Hearesy RR 1's is a flat 16.7% increase in damage regardless of the original hit value, which I think will always be significant as long as the conditions are met. Compared to the other legion rules in Below Average / Weak, SoH and UM aren't even really that situational and there is no counterplay. I think they will prove to be better than predicted, though it will not result in dramatic events like clutching initiative on a key turn with EC, for instance.
Thank you for the great summary! I have a question about the 1+ armour save, either on the warbringer or due to USRs; RAW, a nat1 is always a failed save, so I read a 1+ save as "even at -1, you still get a 2+ save", not as an auto-pass. Is there any rule that states that a 1+ save is an auto-pass on the armour save?
They should have leaned into Divination and making an army that is unique to orders. Something in the form of being able to change a certain number of orders per turn. 1 per formation. This and paired with their Command HQ, you have an army wide special rule that feels like you're a member of the Corvide guiding your entire legion to victory.
Sorry, but I think you are really sleeping on Death Guard and Iron Warriors. Both of theirs are immensely powerful/useful... Especially in a game based around capturing objectives.
It feels very reminiscent indeed. Like generally really great, and then just a few that were… wtf. Lets hope we dont descend as far as the Heresy followup books and PDFs…
@@Hearesy I do as well, I may not have picked Imperialis (My group picked BattleTech earlier this year) but it's still an expensive game and I want people to get what they pay for.
Sucks. Mostly sucks that it just doesnt need to be like that and we could all play what we like AND have good rules. If that ability was full rerolls itd be great… how hard was that to fix? Sigh
On it’s own yes, but they seem to be designed to be either allies or take an allied detachment from other factions to provide your army with some big rule synergies. It just isn’t a very simple legion to optimize.
Easily best Heresy videos on UA-cam, welcome back!
You need to know that your videos are super good and helpful, you are a great source of info and easily one of the best heresy channels on youtube.
Thank you! Very kind :)
Good to see you are back! Your videos are really helpful for a newbie like me to learn the game. Still hoping you will finish your series on Heresy 2.0
It's interesting to see how the perception of power level has changed since these rules came out. Iron warriors is an example of a rule a lot of people were excited about, and that we now know is pretty useless. And Space Wolves, that everyone belittled to no end, is now basically an auto-take in competitive play.
Great to have you back, your videos are such a great resource in grasping the general concepts of HH, I recommend them to anyone trying to get into Heresy. Your Legion guides, your unit guides, they are incredibly useful in structuring a lot of the very many choices you have in list building in a way that actually helps rather than overwhelm.
Exciting to have your videos back. Even more tempted to dive into tiny heresy
So glad I found your channel, easily the best Horus Heresy channel on UA-cam! As for me, I'll be matching my Legions Imperialis army to my 30K army and represent the glorious First Legion, the Dark Angels!
Great video, great that you are back, I'm super excited for Legions!
That escalated 😂 only just seen you community post. Good to see you back.
Good stuff. Great to have you back!
Been waiting for your series to continue for heresy 2.0 I’m so glad you’re back
Happy to see you are back !
Thank you so much for this, welcome back. You helped me soo much with 30k & the same with this game. Keep ‘em coming chum 👌
My starter box came in the mail today - pretty stoked. Of course, in classic GW style, the miniatures in the starter set don't make a legal force, since the Legion demi-company can only have one battle tank detachment, and there's two in the starter box. So to remedy that, I ordered a kratos squadron to make an armored company. Was really hard not to order a whole bunch of extras, but I'll wait for the additional releases to see what I want in my army.
The starter box is pretty bad as a starter army yeh (even though its good value by gw standards). Feels like it needed to be bigger but they wanted to keep it cheap.
Oh well, we were going to buy more anyway, right :)
@@Hearesy yeah. Especially that it doesn't come with any terrain. I went with the starter + kratos tanks because I wanted to get my hands on the rules first, and figure out how I want to build my army first. Right now I'm leaning towards another box of infantry, another kratos, and maybe a thunderhawk, then focus on getting the auxilia to 1500, and then we'll see
Interesting.
Great video.
I wonder if there will be a crazy meta with lots of space wolves to counter the infiltrating Legions...
Great video! I’m glad I’m not getting shafted, just started putting my 1500 pts of Iron Warriors together.
I went infantry heavy with 3 demi companies nearly identical; Hq, 2 Tac(+4ml each), contemptor talon, 9 rhinos. Then added a Fire raptor, a warhound, and a couple extra rhines to get to 1499.
This is pretty much what my 1500 Iron Hands looks like too!
All hail the return of the king! Welcome back bud it made my day seeing you released a new video! Have a good one!
Thanks! Its great to be back!
For the Blood Angels special rule and ability to fight twice, you have to be careful, consider that the enemy will get an additional dice.
Now this is the video I was looking for! Thanks!
Yes! I am looking forward to this video. I am still rewatching your content from time to time and am really excited.
Alas I'm not into Imperialis. Will still watch it. :)
Maybe you will be once you watch it :)
This won't change my mind for the legion I'm choosing, as I'm more of a rule of cool kind of guy, but this is a really good video. Welcome back!
Same, didnt change mine either, and I might even be overly optimistic on how good my legion are haha! And thanks
Thanks for this. I run Alpha Legion in 30K and wasn't expecting them to be so good in LI. Was thinking about Imperial Fists but now I'm not sure.
Just started Legion imperialis last week.all Legion were awesome.
And I am starting D.A Legion.
Welcome back mate!
Just came across your channel. I always thought Imperialus was the right scale for Horus Heresy with seeing the full size of these battles with titans, armour and aircraft. I also like 28mm so it's a hard decision between Age of DARKNESS or Imperialus
Chuffed to see you back mate
Its good to see you back. Hope you are doing well
Thanks! Im great!
You're alive!
In the couple games I've played with Raven guard the infiltrate hasn't helped one bit. They get bombed by my opponents Marauder as soon as it's on table in the movement phase. Collosus bombs are nasty
Once there are more units, you can infiltrate/fwd deploy AA.
Marauders are OP (spoiler alert for future video…) but can be easily countered!
Interesting to see if you would revise any of these now we have had more stuff...
I honestly think the Death Guard have the ability to really mess with an enemy’s tactics depending on how they use their Dangerous Terrain ability. Turning an Objective Area or Building into Dangerous Terrain can be nasty. Adding to the fact that they ignore Dangerous Terrain themselves, that can be really beneficial.
Yep. If it works, it will work great. But I fear a lot of the time it will just be inconsequential.
@@HearesyI couldn't disagree more with regard to it being "inconsequential". I think it will be useful every single game.
1. It makes it very difficult for the enemy to funnel your troops.
2. You can put the enemy off entering up to 4 buildings by boobytrapping them...if there is an objective in a building you have boobytrapped, they will be risking death entering and exiting said building.
3. You can pass through boobytrapped objectives without a care.
How is that not super useful? General consensus online is it's one of the stronger legion abilities.
THE RETURN OF THE KING 🎉
The also-king is also available at:
www.youtube.com/@princeofbieltan
❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥@@Hearesy
Yes yes yes - welcome back!!
Nice discussion. Personally I think Imperial Fists should been the top of above average or even the bottom of the top tier. Giving practically all infantry accurate when infantry is so good and really bumps up the damage output. Obviously combining them with one of the infiltrating detachments is very very strong.
The Return of the King
The return of the King 👑
You’re back 🎉
Where would you put put Solar Auxilia in the tier list? Or is that for another video?
Yeh probably for another video!
Yes please do a solar aux vid.
Hell yeah he's back!
Disagree with the Death Guards, I think they are average, the ability to drop dangerous terrain (likely) on at least one objective and thus tip the balance on that (or those if multiple) objectives decisively to the Death Guard player is worthy of Well-Balanced tier.
Poor Space Wolves truly have the worst rule, but ironically their Legion rule is actually potentially one of the ways to nerf the influence of the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion infiltraters. Weird but true.
I had them in average right up until I filmed… I certainly wouldnt die on hat hill. Theyre very variable.
welcome back!
The 30k goat is back!
He’s back!
Thank you for sharing it.
WELCOME BACK!
They should really add a points cost to legion traits. At 35pts for a basic marine base they are already too cheap when compared to 30pts for las troops
Welcome back.
I'm on the fence between 4 legions: SoH, World Eaters, Imperial Fists, Salamanders.
I didnt go into it in timhis vid but like, an assault formation of WE, a shooty formation of IF, etc would be super optimal AND great for hobby!
I appreciate the discussion on choice of army and tier list at the end, but man do I feel the actual available range is rather... anemic. The Solar don't have access to big artillery yet, a bunch of dreadnoughts are still coming, and the White Scars don't even have bikes!
Indeed. I look forward to doing it again with more units!
@@HearesyA wider variety of units have been released, any chance for an updated video?
@CatCraine maybe if i get some spare time!
Solar auxilia just get none? or will be covered on other video?
finallyyyyyyyyyyyyy a new videoooooooooooooooooo
Will still play them but oh man the Thousand Sons ability is just bad. Commanders already have an invulnerable save. Magnus did wrong sure, but not enough to deserve this. Nice to see you’re back
Wouldn't the Space Wolves legion shut down the very powerful tier legions?
Not shut down, just "slightly reduce the power of". In most missions they can even still be on the centre objectives despite the SW ability.
But since the Space Wolves have no other ability, their ability means RG or AL get a reduced power ability... which is still more than the Wolves have got. So still a bad trade off for them!
HE RETURNS!!!!
What about weapons with demolisher with buildings being so important I foresee MANY players bringing Bombers and titans that can easily destroy the buildings and infantry with the n
Within*
Agree.
Thousand Sons shafted again, but too bad, I'm playing them anyways.
The way of the true fan! I told myself I was playing Iron Hands even if they were bad, but Im not sure how faithful I would have been when it came to the crunch, haha.
The good thing is you can paint whatever Legion you like and say it has been Alpha Legion the whole time...
Wow your back you been okay?
Im very good thank you!
Sons of Horus will reroll ones 1/2 the time, ranges aren't that long in this game.
Yeh, not all the time, and when they do its just 1s on weapons that normally hit on 5s… just not great.
@@Hearesy RR 1's is a flat 16.7% increase in damage regardless of the original hit value, which I think will always be significant as long as the conditions are met. Compared to the other legion rules in Below Average / Weak, SoH and UM aren't even really that situational and there is no counterplay. I think they will prove to be better than predicted, though it will not result in dramatic events like clutching initiative on a key turn with EC, for instance.
Are you Ben Curry from the Bad Dice Podcast back in the day?
Nope, he is a lot more Southern than I am!
I hope you comeback even for the main Horus heresy game...
Maybe, not on the cards right now but I nearly made a video on yesterday’s FAQ!
Thank you for the great summary! I have a question about the 1+ armour save, either on the warbringer or due to USRs; RAW, a nat1 is always a failed save, so I read a 1+ save as "even at -1, you still get a 2+ save", not as an auto-pass. Is there any rule that states that a 1+ save is an auto-pass on the armour save?
Yep, 1+ is an auto pass in imperialis on saves.
thanks :) found it in the rulebook as well @@Hearesy
Lets goooooooo!
Its a shame that the Thousand Sons trait seems so bad, compared to other traits that is army / field wide
Yeh :( i would have liked to have seen it be a 5+ but only for infantry.
They should have leaned into Divination and making an army that is unique to orders. Something in the form of being able to change a certain number of orders per turn. 1 per formation. This and paired with their Command HQ, you have an army wide special rule that feels like you're a member of the Corvide guiding your entire legion to victory.
He lives
RISE OF THE BIRD BOYS!
Sorry, but I think you are really sleeping on Death Guard and Iron Warriors. Both of theirs are immensely powerful/useful... Especially in a game based around capturing objectives.
Salamander all the way!!!! 🥳
They kinda made legion rules real minor considering the Scale and Infantry is minor 🤣
Unless you’re RG, AL, WE or IF :)
@@Hearesy or Solar Auxillary in buildings 🤣
Wow, some of these need a second pass, kinda like Heresy.
It feels very reminiscent indeed. Like generally really great, and then just a few that were… wtf.
Lets hope we dont descend as far as the Heresy followup books and PDFs…
@@Hearesy I do as well, I may not have picked Imperialis (My group picked BattleTech earlier this year) but it's still an expensive game and I want people to get what they pay for.
Some these legion rules are somehow more bullshit than 2.0 rules.
What
Part of being a SoH player is accepting your legion rules will be trash I guess
Sucks. Mostly sucks that it just doesnt need to be like that and we could all play what we like AND have good rules. If that ability was full rerolls itd be great… how hard was that to fix? Sigh
@@Hearesy got the most baller color scheme so you pay for it in the rules
@@Hearesyalso forgot to mention - glad you’re back, hope your family is doing well
On it’s own yes, but they seem to be designed to be either allies or take an allied detachment from other factions to provide your army with some big rule synergies. It just isn’t a very simple legion to optimize.
IF with the OP rules. Barf.
What kind of GW game would it be if IF got bad rules?
@@Hearesy - 9th Edition? But good point. I am so sick of the Yellow.
God the GW rules writer's hate thousand sons
They just dont know what to do with them do they? Psychic powers in all the games are so boring now. Bring back Dark Millenium!
I feel like these kinds of lists are redundant when you haven't had time to actually play they game and develop an opinion.
You have been sorely missed by HH players. Not interested in tiny heresy, so hope you will get back to HH at some point.