Make Zelda into Skyrim keep the open world keep the equipment but remove the equipment that break remove the overly complicated phisic bending power instead bring the items back make it like a metroidvania the more dongeon you clear the more object you getto explore more ave played every Zelda but Botw is where i stopped because it was now to complicated i mostly play Jrpg and metroidvania but now its way to much realistically complicated Since wen Zelda ad puzzle? never
Hyrule Castle from BotW is the perfect example of how themed dungeons could work in the open world. Its shameful it didnt build upon that. They kind of did in tears, but those dungeons were still quite simple.
Depths and sky islands are completely new. I absolutely loved going around the depths just finding all the hidden stuff down there. Lynels, zonaite, giant camps of bokoblins, more lynels, froxes, amazing armor. Also the gameplay was completely reworked and is now far more rewarding. Especially fuse. I skipped over enemy camps all the time in botw because it didn’t make sense using my good weapons just for some bokoblin horns. Totk flipped this on its head. Your weapons are now decayed from gloom, and the only way to make them viable is to fuse with monster parts. Making combat have a purpose in virtually any situation. This ain’t no “$70 dlc” they took something already good and perfected it(besides a few nitpicks). Also the way you can build a variety of vehicles, because horses sucked in botw let’s be honest lol. They can fly, or glid across water or sand, literally anything you can think of making. What a beautiful game
Agreed. The depths and sky islands did not feel interesting enough at all, there was so much nothing in it. Was hoping for a Majora's Mask type sequel, with new and interesting stuff using the same assets but just ended up feeling like I was playing a game I had already played, and in some ways maybe liked a little less
@@Lyndis_ yeah I agree. Another issue is they added some things but took away some of the amazing visuals. So for example; I can join a posse and kill some goblins, cool. Theres now some dragons, also cool. But what have we lost? I dont get the awesome visual of the divine beasts in rito village and death mountain (the divine beast in rito village had me playing the game for hours just to reach it) And when we see the dragons in TOTK the music rarely plays as they're often too high up or descending into the depths. Seeing the electric dragon on hyrule bridge and having that music play was just magical. So theyve added some things and in my view made some other elements worse
I think the best option would be to combine them. But as for now I prefer old Zelda, I think old Zelda always had a perfect blend of open and liner world it was just limited by hardware to populate the map and expand it. New Zelda is foregoing balance for a huge map essentially
Exactly. If you took the world of Hyrule from Ocarina of Time and plopped it into a big rectangle, there'd be so much room left in between the established areas to create all sorts of additional content. I think the Zelda series jumped the shark letting Link just climb everything and glide everywhere. The world of Hyrule felt bigger when it was smaller, if that makes any sense; the open world that allows you to go anywhere prevents any sense of progression and at least for me vastly limits my sense of adventure and exploration. I've played these games since OoT, and I wholeheartedly would prefer the games return to linearity and story-based exploration instead of sticking with the empty open world with zero limits and hundreds of redundant and thematically stupid shrines that replaced large and well thought out dungeons that actually fit the theme of the area and its people. Ugh, and the Wild games ruined the Gorons - why tf are they wearing plastic yellow hard hats and where is the classic Goron City theme?!
@@hanburgundy4317 I couldn’t agree more, It’s very strange why Zelda change so suddenly. It seems since Eiji Aonuma moved up to producer of Zelda the series really changed alot. It’s almost like he doesn’t see why traditional Zelda are good or just thinks it’s better in this new design. Ironically what made it good was super unique and not many games did. And what he wants to do is what is very trendy and not very special since many games are doing it. It’s just a very odd decision to me, it’s like he’s good at making the games but is terrible at directing them. If it were me I would get a new Zelda producer and move him down to director, he is still useful with all his experience but the guy is screwing it up lol
Bring back dungeon items, instruments, make the master sword actually meaningful and also bring back the triforce and do a better story than just the same cutscenes with different characters Ill be pleased with that
What if: Old Zelda dungeons, dungeon item New open air Some dungeons harder than others Last dungeon must be completed after getting something from every other dungeon to add a bit of old structure Link wears green again Link has an instrument again
Instruments with porpurse gives you OOT and MM. No purpose, just cheap traditionalism, gives you TP, ST and SS. So, as for me, no thanks. WW is middle ground
Personally i ad played every zelda TILL botw where i quitted i want a free game with rpg elements and equipment but why no dongeon? weapon that breAk? overly cOMplicated phisic puzzle? Ave never beated the great plateau then with TOTK it got even worst even more complicated for nothing i ave loved the link awakening remake ad never played the original ave re beat it 3x in fact but the newer complicated zelda im done just do Skyrim with Zelda equipment weapon that dont break ave dongeon just replace the overly complicated powers with object like before but it is like God of war or assassin creed or Sonic franchise i ad loved that changed into something i dont
@luthiamoonlightfrqc2905 You can! You can get the Ancient saddle and bridle, and once you put it on your horse and whistle, the horse will teleport to you
I actually like having places restricted in games. It feels more impactful when you have to unlock and lets you take in all the area you already have unlocked more. it adds more layers and depth to the world, makes it feel less empty.
I think they should have an option for both. I remember playing as a kid thinking it felt weird using my left hand for a sword but I got used to it over time and still enjoyed it, then i got botw recently and im like wtf happened to the og stance 😂😂 having an option to use left or right hand for weapons would be awesome, hell with a mechanic like that you could probably dual wield which would be badass
I doubt they would go through the trouble of re-doing all of the animations just for that, and c'mon, Link is the most famous lefty out there, they did him dirty@@GooseGaming999
The last line really hit the hardest: "Ironically though it's looks like the franchise needs Old Zelda to feel fresh again." I love the open world games, but Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda game and I enjoy all of the other 3D entries. I'd love to see the future of Zelda with old school elements.
Glad it's way more common for people to realize that the classic Zelda format was way more metroidvania than straight up adventure. Imo it's what gave the series a lot of its identity, much to its benefit.
What you said at the end summarizes this whole debacle perfectly. Uniting ideas from both worlds is the dream. Having the massive open world, freedom of exploration, and crazy mechanics from the botw/totk games combined with the beloved dungeon style, puzzles, key weapons, companions, story, and music from classic Zelda titles would become a dream.
His proposal still have a lot of work to do, like how dungeons work and stuff. Meanwhile, making an imbalance in areas(explicit route) removes the purpose of open air zelda in my opinion. I think Aunoma means linear 3D zelda is obsolete because the grandness and atmosphere offered in these game can already be done in breath or tears, which is the entire point why zelda is 3D. The linear formula going forward will be 2D zelda exclusive. I think the blandness of tears comes from the breath of the wild world. The surface is no longer exciting to explore the second time around and exploration is integral to the open experience. Since open world games span across the entire hyrule as opposed to linear games, they have to drastically make hyrule completely different with massive event that changes how the world looks like flooding in wind waker or travel to another kingdom/space entirely(it would be better to have a completely different atmosphere in that new kingdom). In addition, the new dungeons is just lacking compared to old dungeons puzzle and theming wise, which is unrelated to the new formula. Here’s my vision for the next Zelda: - Ganon just completely destroy the entire Triforce planet(the planet that hyrule is on) and did not kidnapped zelda. The game is set on the space beyond hyrule and familiar regions are scattered as asteroids as well as new larger planets to explore. You have to travel different planet using a spaceship and your goal is to defeat Ganon’s base in space, which he have used to revive. It is the time to break the convention of the zelda universe after they break the fromula. The same reoccurring location and races is getting old. - Fuse, ultra hand and auto build will return, but not the zonal part to keep it fresh and different with the new goddess part, which is more fantastical but still have the battery system. Rewind and Ascend will not return though, instead they are replaced with control and transcend. Control let link go through planet cycles to ease traversal and transcend allows link to go to a cell shaded parallel universe with corresponding difference(asteroid appear and disappear as well as opposing elements, like a fire dungeon become ice dungeon with different puzzles) - Dungeons with more theming and corresponding puzzles, as well as being a linear dungeon but you can switch between the routes by using the transcend abilities. It works like a link between world where abilities are disable besides the main one used but can be lent to skip puzzles.
@@QnjtGWonQNqVsbYyzjx4 Excellent take. To clarify, as an overall opinion, I definitely prefer the new Zelda style of botw and totk of a completely open world with total freedom over the traditional Zelda approach of linear tasks. Ex: get the 3 magical elements, get the Master Sword, complete these dungeons in order (mainly water, fire, forest, etc), and defeat Ganondorf. Unfortunately, I believe that Mr. Aonuma misunderstood the fans when some of them complained about the new approach. He said that they want to go back to that traditional approach. I want to explain to him that the Zelda franchise should stick to the current approach WHILE taking inspiration from the classic games, such as its dungeons and the other elements I've mentioned. Besides botw being a masterpiece of a game, they completely butchered the Zelda elements and magic that the series tends to have. In totk, Aonuma promised fans the return of traditional dungeons instead of plain linear divine beats. Turns out the only "traditional" element in the new dungeons are the names (Fire Temple, Water Temple, etc). Everything else was similar to botw, if not worse: terrible dungeon designs, non-existing puzzles, and mediocre boss fights.
@@7amo0odi96 I think we will crave out a new legend of Zelda, breath and tears is just the start that focus on gameplay and mechanics, we can experiment with the world and atmosphere in the next zelda. If they can have actually themed and involved puzzle, I would not mind the key system from tears come back. Maybe the a link between world linear path route would please more traditional zelda players tho. I think with a key system, having player do all puzzle defeats the entire zelda, but a 50% pass would still have accessibility while having better dungeon
As a long-time fan of the Zelda series, I feel as thought Aonuma and his team misunderstood the draw of Zelda 1 with Breath of the Wild, and to a greater extent with Tears of the Kingdom. If they were really attempting to draw inspiration and create a spiritual successor, they would have noticed that the Zelda 1 had a number of "lock and key" segments where items (or lack thereof) soft-gated you from completing areas/dungeons. In essence, the very first Zelda is a puzzle game disguised as an action-adventure game, and the interesting part of Zelda is piecing all of the information you're given, along with your gear's abilities, to find a way to Ganon's Lair to defeat Ganon. If you want my opinion on Zelda games most similar to Zelda 1, I think you really need look no further than the Item Randomizers made for most popular Zelda games by 3rd party developers. I think they know what's up.
Very well said. I play tons of ALTTP randomizer, especially entrance randomizer, and figuring out how the world unlocks and fits together is a key ingredient in the recipe for a fun Zelda.
Aonuma himself has never played more than like 30 minutes of Zelda 1 yet somehow gaslighted so much of this fanbase into thinking BotW is just like Zelda 1
@pitshoster401 fucking exactly. The game doesnt even look like zelda, nor does it even elicit the same feeling. Botw defenders saying, "This is his intended vision," are lying to themselves. It's insane they said they won't make another TP because they prefer cell shading and think a darker zelda won't work.
@@pitshoster401man you're always acting like a toxic little manchild in the comments of every single video about new Zelda. Your impotent crying is both pathetic and amusing.
Something I can say is that the main reason Ocarina of Time is my favorite Zelda game is because of all the *purpose* in details, Easter Eggs, and content which not only help break linearity (until the game splits the adult temples into very basic progression checks, allowing for freedom of temple order) but streamline the experimentations process. Many gamers don't even think like video game players and will assume their limited resources are harder to come by until proven otherwise, so a surplus of something like ammo helps give the opportunity to experiment with these items. Now how do you gain access to these upgrades? By exploring the focused towns filled with NPCs who matter to some degree. Don't get me wrong, I love diegetic hints but they're so spread out and repetitive that I have so few NPCs that I like across both BotW and TotK compared to every MEANINGFUL sidequest in Skyward Sword. And to further prove my point, it's very hard to not know what island you're on in Wind Waker, what loading zone you're in across Majora's Mask, which house you're in throughout Twilight Princess... But the open Zelda games definitely have a fair few skylines and rocky mountains that are just kind of generic and have no real identity to them. It's like, "oh yes, this is the non/snowy mountain that can see Rito Village." What else? No heart pieces or other goodies to TRULY distinguish is unless it's an already iconic part of the map like a fairy fountain from the prior game. There's still empty space in the other Zelda games sure, but for every square inch of OoT's Hyrule Field that lacks a grotto, enemy encounter, or bush that'll magically drop resources, you have a square MILE in Tears or Breath with equally meaningless travel time. And yet open Zelda still has some of the best world design in any open world game I've seen... It just becomes.... A little meaningless to traverse after a while. Which is a feeling only bloated by the size of the game, an issue that the NES original clearly never had.
💯 OoT's Hyrule feels larger than that of the Wild games, despite being far smaller. Having each area separated from each other - including areas that are either hidden or advanced parts of the story - and having you progress through them with direction and purpose spurred on by a well written story gave a much better sense of adventure. The Wild games are fun to wander around in, but that's 90% of the game - both of them. Wander around and do countless redundant shrines that have a terrible thematic reason for being sprinkled around the world.
OoT and AlltP + AlbW will forever be the peak Zelda experiences. Traditional dungeons, rememberable NPCs, diverse exploration (linear, metroid-vania-esc but also open), amazing progression, music and story
I miss the music and instruments so dearly, I thought it was an important part of the Hero, his powers and his connection to the sages. Having a companion also; As much as I love the freedom, it feels so lonely.
I finished OoT for the first time last year. And I gotta say I had more fun with the complexity of that games dungeon than I had with Tears of the Kingdom 1 month later. Ive always been a Zelda fan. And I think the problem has simple solution. The team need to ask themselves. What is the function of all the players' abilities in the open world. All I remember doing in Tears was getting as high as possible. Or building this to get around that obstacle. While the latter can have its moments. I still see the value in my time getting progression items through trials. That taught me how to apply said items. While also making progress. Why are we stopping to learn practical application? That used to be baked into the experience. Tears had better dungeons than BotW. But they still pale in comparison to OoT
I just feel like the older games delivered a more polished end product. I don't need to explore every single nook and cranny of the overworld, I just need some kickass dungeons that are well designed (and definitely not open world dungeons because that never worked out). That's the bare minimum for me. A BotW/TotK styled overworld is the cherry on top for me, not the meat and potatoes.
Totk is great but some more linearity and structure to dungeons and story would go a long way and be a nice contrast to the open air exploration I love exploring In the new Zelda soo much, I don’t want that aspect to be linear again but the story and dungeons should absolutely be more linear. I don’t understand why in totk you are asked to go to the rito region first but then you find a final memory there 😭 And the dungeons feels like a bunch of mini puzzles to activate terminals, I’d much prefer getting lost in a big dungeons and find keys to unlock deeper unknown areas that aren’t immediately accessible. I love both style of Zeldas I just want a better mix of their individual qualities and to let go of what people don’t like. Zelda team have to question a few things, they shouldn’t let their success blind them from improving
“They shouldn’t let their success blind them” That’s what I’m scared of. I can’t imagine the Zelda team becoming the new GameFreak. If that happens and the next Zelda game is a cash grab I’m never going to touch a Nintendo console ever again.
I’ll take interesting characters, a fleshed out and smaller world with interesting things to discover over(old Zelda) a massively open and empty world with nothing interesting to see except for a few shrines any day.
I want them to return to the older Zelda formula because it allows for a much better story/narrative. TOTK especially I felt pretty disappointed in the story. literally all 6 sages have the exact same story/cutscenes because they cant have anything out of order, so its all just the same thing 6 times, and everything unique/important to the story happens in the past so you as the player don't even get to experience it, you are just told what happens in some cutscene then you go back to killing monsters.
There's a lot of reasons I think going back to the older formula (or merging the linear formula with the open air formula), but one of the biggest ones is the game's progression. In both BoTW and ToTK, by the time you left the tutorial area, you had every one of Link's abilities and aside from narrative implications, there's really no incentive to explore the world. It's a slow and repetitive grind to gear up until you feel like killing the final boss. No upgrades (other than disposable weapons and heals), very few unique quests, and a lack of story. They put you in a world and expect you to explore it just because it's a video game, but there's not really that much of a reason to. That, and that exploring the world just isn't very memorable. There's some cool moments for sure-- defending Gerudo Town with Riju is a notable example-- but since it's a completely open game there's not really a place to stick plot points or scripted encounters. Most of the story and cutscenes come in the tutorial and the final boss, and any cutscenes outside of that time are either repeated far too often or easily missable. Compare that to other Zelda games, where they can put plot points really anywhere in the story. Hell, that one bridge fight from Skyward Sword after the third dungeon is one of the coolest moments in the franchise in my opinion, and that's directly in the middle of the game. ToTK could never.
I think the problem with this mindset is that it assumes all players care that much about the story, when I think there are just different types of gamers out there that prioritize different things. For me, for example, I sort of prefer the hands-off approach of story in Zelda, like say A Link to the Past. It's got enough to get you to understand why you're going around getting things, but it doesn't actively get in the way of you doing said task either, or constantly interrupt the gameplay with cutscenes. You aren't having random gates like having to talk to some dude, to go get a letter, to then bring that back to a woman who gives you tea for a guard, and the guard finally lets you up the mountain. The only thing stopping you from going to the mountain is just the previous dungeon's core item usually. Though in LTTP, once you get the first dungeon done in the Dark World, the rest of them can be done in almost any order. For me, that's what Zelda's always supposed to have been about, starting with the first game. Actually going on an adventure and discovering things, not getting into a cutscene every time you walk into an area. Also, gameplay in general is more important to me, because, you can replay a good game with a mediocre or non-existent story, but you're almost never going to replay a mediocre or bad game with a good story.
Another problem I have in TotK is the enemy variety there are just a few more enemies instead of A LOT. Enemy camps only consist of Bokoblins Moblins and sometimes lizalfos again the only new additions are the boss bokoblins and Aerocuda
And there’s nothing really calling me back to it. What would I do? Hunt more korok seeds and shrines or be frustrated in combat as I’m constantly punished by sticker star’s durability mechanics for having fun?
I feel like Nintendo could have their cake and eat it too if they wanted to. They are one of the most profitable companies in Japan, they could hire a whole team and train them to create more traditional Zelda games every 2-3 years. Meanwhile the main team could work on the next massive open world Zelda game.
I think they could’ve re-invented the _Zelda_ formula through an open-world design, and still maintained the best of the series, like atmospheric puzzle-box dungeons of only they’d impose the tiniest of limits here and there… like perhaps you can’t climb virtually anything, and only the things one could logically climb, like trees and rocks? and in _TOTK…_ just take away the ability to carry Zonai devices in your inventory (and Autobuild) and force the player to solve the “puzzle” with the given pieces… or give us a dungeon where your inventory and abilities are limited, similar to the Eventide-style shrines. …games are built on limits, otherwise they’re just sandboxes. that, and just tell us a better story 🤷🏻♂️
This is a very simple and short video on the whole topic and i seriously dont think it needs to be longer. You hit the nail on the head right there. I think the answer really is that simple. You can appease both types of fans by refining what is there and i think the key to refining open world Zelda lies in the strengths of old Zelda elements. The innovative possibilities are endless.
The depths I see as a modern incarnation of the "dark world" concept, they could've drastically improved Totk in my eyes if they locked the depths behind needing to complete atleast like 2 of the surface dungeons as well as actually putting some dungeons IN the depths, cut out half the shrines and instead add the orbs of light as optional collectables in the dungeons
I feel like A Link Between Worlds and A Link To the Past did this middle ground the best. You have sections of the game that are completely free for exploration but occasional points of linearity to have the story flow in a natural manner.
Hot take but the gimmicky sandbox stuff (mostly ultrahand and ascend, despite being a nice QOL addition) really took me out of TOTK. I didn't mind it in BOTW because it still felt like old Zelda items streamlined into a new interface, and their uses had natural restrictions on them to not feel excessive except for bombs and stasis, which still felt natural and mostly believable to use. It just feels so unbelievably gimmicky in TOTK and while it's fun at first, it just did not feel like Zelda at all to me imo.
Honestly, one of the best yt vids i’ve seen in along time. As someone who’s only played breath of the wild n totk I ADORE them. On the other hand It could’ve been harder, like a master mode n that’s n issue. Zelda is fun but it needs to be harder esp with the constant exploring.
This is an awesome video. As a fan of the Zelda franchise since Ocarina of Time, I totally agree with what you say in this video. Honestly, I think Aonuma’s new Zelda design philosophy is flawed. While BOTW and TOTK are fun games, they aren’t truly “Zelda” games. It’s upsetting that the current formula seems to stem from the massive sales that BOTW made alongside the launch of the switch. But that’s the thing, the Nintendo Switch by itself is the third best selling console of all time. That tells me that if Nintendo sold a more traditional Zelda title (with its own new gimmicks) alongside the release of the Switch, then the game would STILL sell more than any of the previous games combined. Aonuma attributes the success to the brand new Zelda formula, but I don’t think it’s quite as simple as that. The story elements have taken a massive blow in terms of quality when compared to previous titles. To put it simply, I think they are just following the money :/
Ironically enough they had the biggest middle ground be A Link Between Worlds. Open ended overworld with linear themed dungeons. AND a still GREAT story to boot.
I would be absolutely fine with gating off certain areas, as long as within each area there was a ton of secrets, sidequests, and other optional content. I feel like a small but dense over-world is superior to a sprawling but empty/repetitive open world.
What I dislike in new Zelda games starting in SS is the portrayal of technology. From Ancient Technology to vehicles, it really took the fantasy and magic out of it for me.
I have to say, I agree. I think Skyward Sword had a good balance between magic and technology, but when they went all in for it in BOTW and especially TOTK, it just felt so not Zelda. One of many things about the new games that makes it feel so 'not Zelda'. I miss when a talking magical boat king was your companion and way of travel the whole game. Now the people in the new games canonically look at that and go, "Oh, talking boats? That's just a fairytale... That probably didn't really happen."
@@azeplays3563 I meant Skyward Sword (SS), my bad. Edited the original comment to fix it EDIT: I just realized OP said SW & I thought he meant Skyward, I actually don't know then.. huh...
@@thewindisblowing7520 yeah that's why I was asking lol. I saw op write it and figured it was a typo but then you did as well and I couldn't figure out if I was missing something 😂
I hope they either continue to make both types of zelda, or combine the two to have large open worlds with tons of weapons you can find and ingredients to cook, but keep a lot of older parts about it where you have to explore dungeons to get items that will help you reach places you couldn’t before. Also bring back heart pieces because shrines are fun sometimes, but they get repetitive after a while.
This video was honestly such a joy to watch, the level of editing and storytelling combined with well timed jokes are really impressive! You earned a sub my guy! Keep on doing what you do
I mean yeah but they were able to craft such a magical experience into every inch with the more guided original approach. The open world really killed the magic and made everything bland repetitive and spread out.
And that is Exactly why people are kinda pissed...BoTW, ok. Tears of the KIngdom, I hate it! Its one thing to experiment, or to add new things, but to turn your back on everything that made the game great in the first place!!!! You dont have to fully go back to the old formula, but for god's sake man, bring back my favorite Zelda item, the hookshot!!!
I first started Zelda with Oot 3D, but constantly needed guides and eventually dropped it. Later I started botw and really liked it. But now that I kinda get zelda better, I recently got a copy of Wind Waker and I've been enjoying it. I think the two formats should coexist, with the classic style being for preexisting fans and the open-world games for everyone.
Great fuck’n video man! The script, editing, format, etc..I always end up with some little behind the scenes video like this playing either in the background, or forefront throughout my day…And this was truly as good as the best ones out there. Keep it up 🤘
I always felt that the beauty in BOTW was in the perfect mix of the game and the "things you can do since beggining via a unintended way or do later with much concistency and practicality"
I really don't understand the issue with some linear progression when it comes to game design. This "go anywhere" philosophy can be a real blight on the adventure format. You can't feasibly create an adventure game made of limitless potential without losing the touch of the artist along the way. This is why open world games just become Minecraft eventually, its just a big playbox of make-your-own-fun type tools. Worst of all, the sense of progression is usually the thing that takes the biggest hit. A lot of the time all you really need is well-perfected slight of hand that gives the FEELING of player-led exploration, while carefully guiding you, like a dungeon master might. You want to create scenarios that make your player eager to tackle problems head-on in an intuitive manner. The main thing that makes a player feel like they have agency is making sure that whatever choices you DO present in the game need to feel like they have tangible outcomes. Baldur's Gate 3 obviously took this to the nth degree, but you don't really even have to go that far most of the time. But BG3 is a good example of having moderately sized maps, linear story progression, but brimming with interconnected content that keeps the player from feeling boxed in or begrudgingly led from A to B like they might have felt in Skyward Sword. The devs from the new Zeldas seem to have looked at all the players attempts to break their games, reach hidden areas not meant to be accessed, and thought "why don't we incorporate that into the gameplay!", without realising that its breaking those rigid boundaries that people found fun. They very almost had the right idea with Breath of the Wild of creating consistent rules with their toolsets that apply in lots of different situations that could encourage interesting sequence breaking, but instead they just went awol and created a bunch of tools that feel like they were all originally intended to be used for debugging.
I think what made my mind on this was playing through age of calamity. I don't particularly enjoy the gameplay. But the story on that game felt like true zelda. And I think that's where totk failed. It just provided a shallow story so that the gameplay could take over.
It really feels like Nintendo is chasing modern trends more than doing their own thing as they've gotten bigger as a company, at least with their more popular IPs as well as business practices anyway. I think they benefited more from being the underdog because of the amount of creativity they gave us during those times; at least when it came to the GameCube, DS and 3DS.
I think the problem is that in order to fit with the non linear gameplay the storytelling had to be relegated to a simplistic collection of story fragments. Both botw and totk stories and most of their NPCs are not memorable. Also, to help the immersion, Zelda has to recover its ability to deal with mature and emotional themes in a light hearted way. C'mon, if they were able to make us feel so many things with a deep narrative in a very limited cartridge in a game like majora s mask, how come the story of the switch games has to be so dull and uninspired. For me, the main issue isn't structure or gameplay, it's the story and atmosphere
I personally never thought the traditional style of Zelda felt old, it was never bad. It's because it has so much personality and uniqueness in dungeon environments and ideas style, I just thought maybe they begun to struggle with making unique dungeons by the half dozen, and these last two open world games only showed it more, that they're burning out on creativity and puzzle uniqueness...
As a Zelda fan. I know of a game that managed to get the old Zelda formula and the new formula to work together, and it was a big success. That game being Elden Ring.
@@thomasw9286 Do you know that the No. 1 inspiration to From Software when making Elden Ring was Zelda BotW right?. It has its own Dark Souls formula to it. But some things are really similar to Zelda. Like exploration, Legacy dungeons, etc. It has its own identity and souls formula. But Zelda was a big influence nonetheless.
I miss the excitement you get from doing a dungeon and getting a new weapon to help you through that dungeon. And idk I loved not being free to do what you want. I like formulas. Forest temples, then fire temples, then water and so on and so on. I just liked being more organized cause when I stop and pick up on it I'll know exactly what I'm doing. It may be because I'm old but I just like traditional Zelda games alot more
I agree. I think they should do a linear story and linear dungeons, but have an open world or you can still do dungeons in any order you want not all of them, but most of them I think this would be the perfect mix
To me, being Open World was the new gimmick. Like being Wolf Link, or Minish Cap shrinking, or Link Between Worlds flattening on wall. I want to go back to Dungeons and Exploration. I like doing Dungeons in order, getting new Items as you go along, not all at once.
The biggest issue is not about suddenly changing the formula only for fans to crawl back to the traditional formula. It’s about giving the freedom to explore for the player’s content while maintaining the innovative dungeon designs, complex puzzles, and engaging story with fully fleshed out characters. (That and having Princess Zelda (preferably her Smash Ultimate appearance canon or not) as a true playable travel companion. Spirit Tracks was in the right direction with that, no cigar.) Prior to Tears of the Kingdom’s announcement in 2019, there was a poll asking about what kind of Zelda game would we want to see in the future. “Keep what was done in BOTW” “Stray away from BOTW’s core gameplay but provide the similar open world experience” “Go back to traditional Zelda” “Give us more 2D Zelda” if I remember correctly. The “Stray but provide” option was the most popular. I can’t remember which website it was, but that’s what I would’ve wanted for the next Zelda to be at the time. Then, Tears of the Kingdom comes along and for 6 YEARS of utter secrecy, nobody knows what it’s even about nor how it plays compared to BOTW… the end result……… It’s testing ground 2.0… The biggest issue I have with both games is the lack of value for exploration, and the fact that modern Zelda has a huge step up would suddenly take several more steps back from what made Zelda great and innovative in the first place. You have a massive world to explore with endless possibilities and pieces of character development and lore to go around… at least that’s what I would’ve hoped but neither game was that… instead all of that effort of development was invested solely on shrine trials that DRAG ON (pun intended) from beginning to end. Unfortunately, anything you explore ALWAYS centers around that! Which makes me wonder, is this the new formula Nintendo aims? 120 shrines + 16 DLC shrines + 152 more shrines + 120 lightroots that take up the game’s world with everything else having no value whatsoever and a bare bones narrative that the player has very little to no interaction with… I was hoping for the “stray but provide” route, but that’s not happening… SHRINE TRIALS ARE THE FUTURE OF ZELDA, and Nintendo’s not going to listen to the feedback. (Since when did they anyway?) I’m really hoping they would combine the world exploration of BOTW/TOTK with the classic style gameplay of past Zeldas, but that’s not likely to be happening… Having playing through both BOTW and TOTK back-to-back, I came to realize one thing… The Era of the Wilds… taught me nothing… aside from the fact Nintendo wanted to start a whole new continuity to the series altogether… just abandoning the previous timeline and left it with more holes beyond repair as time went on.
Some things that need to change is we need more linearity. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but all games need a good balance between linearity and freedom in order to be great. That's just how it is.
I definitely prefer the old Zelda formula. That's not to say the new one is bad it's still great. But twilight princess is what got me into the series and it's the formula I love most. I do however think it's very possible and doable to merge the too together to get the best of both worlds. With a map the size of breath of the wild/ tears of the kingdom. It be easy to limit how much of the map the player can explore while still feeling free and worth exploring. The map is huge there's plenty of space
I feel like the games will go in the direction of combining old with new to improve the experience. For example: people didn’t like the Divine Beasts, so Nintendo made dungeons that better fit with older games while still having more freedom like the newer games. I have a feeling the next main line title will be a bit smaller than the last two, so they might bring back older styles in terms of more grounded stories and stranger settings and characters.
I miss the new zelda
Fr fr
Same, bring it back :(
New? No old is 50 times better
How did you comment 8 days ago on a video that came out 7 days ago
@@digiboygaming5299 premire
Young Link getting hit by a door caught me so off-gaurd LMFAOO
Time stamp?
@@ImaSpinachLeaf 0:11
@@linkstan69thank you
That had me in tears lol
Tears of the kingdom?@@Drstrange3000
Zelda needs to find that middle ground between the new and old formula. A proper balance between exploration, structure, and progression.
Make Zelda into Skyrim keep the open world keep the equipment but remove the equipment that break remove the overly complicated phisic bending power instead bring the items back make it like a metroidvania the more dongeon you clear the more object you getto explore more ave played every Zelda but Botw is where i stopped because it was now to complicated i mostly play Jrpg and metroidvania but now its way to much realistically complicated Since wen Zelda ad puzzle? never
Hyrule Castle from BotW is the perfect example of how themed dungeons could work in the open world. Its shameful it didnt build upon that. They kind of did in tears, but those dungeons were still quite simple.
Preach
@@luthiamoonlightfrqc2905 jeez dude do some proof reading before you hit send
No it doesn't. I liked the first two 3d games just the way they were. I don't need an open world to have fun in my fantasy adventure game. BOTW sucks.
new zelda is too tech-y, old zelda felt more magical.
This!!!
I mean I felt the introduction of technology in the new Zelda games like... I don't know... Not so Zelda ..
HARD AGREE!!!
Exactly🎉
honestly, I still view the zonai “tech” as just magic, it’s clearly all held together by a magical green energy, and rauru’s arm is literally magical
@@feraligatorade99 Idk why but I can't stand the new Zeldas at all...
I think peoples main issue is theyve explored BOTW hyrule for 7 years and now theyll be spending another 7 years exploring it again
Those people need to touch grass then explore again
Looooooool
Depths and sky islands are completely new. I absolutely loved going around the depths just finding all the hidden stuff down there. Lynels, zonaite, giant camps of bokoblins, more lynels, froxes, amazing armor. Also the gameplay was completely reworked and is now far more rewarding. Especially fuse. I skipped over enemy camps all the time in botw because it didn’t make sense using my good weapons just for some bokoblin horns. Totk flipped this on its head. Your weapons are now decayed from gloom, and the only way to make them viable is to fuse with monster parts. Making combat have a purpose in virtually any situation. This ain’t no “$70 dlc” they took something already good and perfected it(besides a few nitpicks). Also the way you can build a variety of vehicles, because horses sucked in botw let’s be honest lol. They can fly, or glid across water or sand, literally anything you can think of making. What a beautiful game
Agreed. The depths and sky islands did not feel interesting enough at all, there was so much nothing in it. Was hoping for a Majora's Mask type sequel, with new and interesting stuff using the same assets but just ended up feeling like I was playing a game I had already played, and in some ways maybe liked a little less
@@Lyndis_ yeah I agree. Another issue is they added some things but took away some of the amazing visuals. So for example; I can join a posse and kill some goblins, cool.
Theres now some dragons, also cool.
But what have we lost? I dont get the awesome visual of the divine beasts in rito village and death mountain (the divine beast in rito village had me playing the game for hours just to reach it)
And when we see the dragons in TOTK the music rarely plays as they're often too high up or descending into the depths. Seeing the electric dragon on hyrule bridge and having that music play was just magical. So theyve added some things and in my view made some other elements worse
I think the best option would be to combine them. But as for now I prefer old Zelda, I think old Zelda always had a perfect blend of open and liner world it was just limited by hardware to populate the map and expand it. New Zelda is foregoing balance for a huge map essentially
Yesss!
Exactly. If you took the world of Hyrule from Ocarina of Time and plopped it into a big rectangle, there'd be so much room left in between the established areas to create all sorts of additional content. I think the Zelda series jumped the shark letting Link just climb everything and glide everywhere. The world of Hyrule felt bigger when it was smaller, if that makes any sense; the open world that allows you to go anywhere prevents any sense of progression and at least for me vastly limits my sense of adventure and exploration. I've played these games since OoT, and I wholeheartedly would prefer the games return to linearity and story-based exploration instead of sticking with the empty open world with zero limits and hundreds of redundant and thematically stupid shrines that replaced large and well thought out dungeons that actually fit the theme of the area and its people. Ugh, and the Wild games ruined the Gorons - why tf are they wearing plastic yellow hard hats and where is the classic Goron City theme?!
@@hanburgundy4317 I couldn’t agree more, It’s very strange why Zelda change so suddenly. It seems since Eiji Aonuma moved up to producer of Zelda the series really changed alot. It’s almost like he doesn’t see why traditional Zelda are good or just thinks it’s better in this new design. Ironically what made it good was super unique and not many games did. And what he wants to do is what is very trendy and not very special since many games are doing it. It’s just a very odd decision to me, it’s like he’s good at making the games but is terrible at directing them. If it were me I would get a new Zelda producer and move him down to director, he is still useful with all his experience but the guy is screwing it up lol
@@H-TownGamerI agree 😢
Bring back dungeon items, instruments, make the master sword actually meaningful and also bring back the triforce and do a better story than just the same cutscenes with different characters Ill be pleased with that
What if:
Old Zelda dungeons, dungeon item
New open air
Some dungeons harder than others
Last dungeon must be completed after getting something from every other dungeon to add a bit of old structure
Link wears green again
Link has an instrument again
Instruments with porpurse gives you OOT and MM. No purpose, just cheap traditionalism, gives you TP, ST and SS. So, as for me, no thanks.
WW is middle ground
Maybe not an instrument but just make music more important again
Personally i ad played every zelda TILL botw where i quitted i want a free game with rpg elements and equipment but why no dongeon? weapon that breAk? overly cOMplicated phisic puzzle? Ave never beated the great plateau then with TOTK it got even worst even more complicated for nothing i ave loved the link awakening remake ad never played the original ave re beat it 3x in fact but the newer complicated zelda im done just do Skyrim with Zelda equipment weapon that dont break ave dongeon just replace the overly complicated powers with object like before but it is like God of war or assassin creed or Sonic franchise i ad loved that changed into something i dont
@@manuelzeller1175 make horse usefull again in Botw you cant even teleport them to you
@luthiamoonlightfrqc2905 You can! You can get the Ancient saddle and bridle, and once you put it on your horse and whistle, the horse will teleport to you
I actually like having places restricted in games. It feels more impactful when you have to unlock and lets you take in all the area you already have unlocked more. it adds more layers and depth to the world, makes it feel less empty.
I need my good old left-handed Link again, my boy represented my species you know😭😭
I think they should have an option for both. I remember playing as a kid thinking it felt weird using my left hand for a sword but I got used to it over time and still enjoyed it, then i got botw recently and im like wtf happened to the og stance 😂😂 having an option to use left or right hand for weapons would be awesome, hell with a mechanic like that you could probably dual wield which would be badass
I doubt they would go through the trouble of re-doing all of the animations just for that, and c'mon, Link is the most famous lefty out there, they did him dirty@@GooseGaming999
@@GooseGaming999 yeah that would be nice, probably too much work for Nintendo tho
@@MilestheDirtyMindedGoblin2099 yea which sucks 🤣🤣
@@GooseGaming999 Fr 😭
The last line really hit the hardest: "Ironically though it's looks like the franchise needs Old Zelda to feel fresh again."
I love the open world games, but Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda game and I enjoy all of the other 3D entries. I'd love to see the future of Zelda with old school elements.
I agree Twilight Princess is my favourite Zelda game of all time
Bro this editing is insane. Great video!
Thank you!
Glad it's way more common for people to realize that the classic Zelda format was way more metroidvania than straight up adventure. Imo it's what gave the series a lot of its identity, much to its benefit.
Bro the editing in this video is so well made and visually appealing
What you said at the end summarizes this whole debacle perfectly. Uniting ideas from both worlds is the dream. Having the massive open world, freedom of exploration, and crazy mechanics from the botw/totk games combined with the beloved dungeon style, puzzles, key weapons, companions, story, and music from classic Zelda titles would become a dream.
His proposal still have a lot of work to do, like how dungeons work and stuff. Meanwhile, making an imbalance in areas(explicit route) removes the purpose of open air zelda in my opinion. I think Aunoma means linear 3D zelda is obsolete because the grandness and atmosphere offered in these game can already be done in breath or tears, which is the entire point why zelda is 3D. The linear formula going forward will be 2D zelda exclusive.
I think the blandness of tears comes from the breath of the wild world. The surface is no longer exciting to explore the second time around and exploration is integral to the open experience. Since open world games span across the entire hyrule as opposed to linear games, they have to drastically make hyrule completely different with massive event that changes how the world looks like flooding in wind waker or travel to another kingdom/space entirely(it would be better to have a completely different atmosphere in that new kingdom). In addition, the new dungeons is just lacking compared to old dungeons puzzle and theming wise, which is unrelated to the new formula.
Here’s my vision for the next Zelda:
- Ganon just completely destroy the entire Triforce planet(the planet that hyrule is on) and did not kidnapped zelda. The game is set on the space beyond hyrule and familiar regions are scattered as asteroids as well as new larger planets to explore. You have to travel different planet using a spaceship and your goal is to defeat Ganon’s base in space, which he have used to revive. It is the time to break the convention of the zelda universe after they break the fromula. The same reoccurring location and races is getting old.
- Fuse, ultra hand and auto build will return, but not the zonal part to keep it fresh and different with the new goddess part, which is more fantastical but still have the battery system. Rewind and Ascend will not return though, instead they are replaced with control and transcend. Control let link go through planet cycles to ease traversal and transcend allows link to go to a cell shaded parallel universe with corresponding difference(asteroid appear and disappear as well as opposing elements, like a fire dungeon become ice dungeon with different puzzles)
- Dungeons with more theming and corresponding puzzles, as well as being a linear dungeon but you can switch between the routes by using the transcend abilities. It works like a link between world where abilities are disable besides the main one used but can be lent to skip puzzles.
@@QnjtGWonQNqVsbYyzjx4 Excellent take. To clarify, as an overall opinion, I definitely prefer the new Zelda style of botw and totk of a completely open world with total freedom over the traditional Zelda approach of linear tasks. Ex: get the 3 magical elements, get the Master Sword, complete these dungeons in order (mainly water, fire, forest, etc), and defeat Ganondorf. Unfortunately, I believe that Mr. Aonuma misunderstood the fans when some of them complained about the new approach. He said that they want to go back to that traditional approach. I want to explain to him that the Zelda franchise should stick to the current approach WHILE taking inspiration from the classic games, such as its dungeons and the other elements I've mentioned.
Besides botw being a masterpiece of a game, they completely butchered the Zelda elements and magic that the series tends to have. In totk, Aonuma promised fans the return of traditional dungeons instead of plain linear divine beats. Turns out the only "traditional" element in the new dungeons are the names (Fire Temple, Water Temple, etc). Everything else was similar to botw, if not worse: terrible dungeon designs, non-existing puzzles, and mediocre boss fights.
@@7amo0odi96 I think we will crave out a new legend of Zelda, breath and tears is just the start that focus on gameplay and mechanics, we can experiment with the world and atmosphere in the next zelda. If they can have actually themed and involved puzzle, I would not mind the key system from tears come back. Maybe the a link between world linear path route would please more traditional zelda players tho. I think with a key system, having player do all puzzle defeats the entire zelda, but a 50% pass would still have accessibility while having better dungeon
that intro door scene cracked me tf up lol
Thank you, love your videos!
@@J0J0Jetz you're welcome and keep up the good work mate
As a long-time fan of the Zelda series, I feel as thought Aonuma and his team misunderstood the draw of Zelda 1 with Breath of the Wild, and to a greater extent with Tears of the Kingdom. If they were really attempting to draw inspiration and create a spiritual successor, they would have noticed that the Zelda 1 had a number of "lock and key" segments where items (or lack thereof) soft-gated you from completing areas/dungeons. In essence, the very first Zelda is a puzzle game disguised as an action-adventure game, and the interesting part of Zelda is piecing all of the information you're given, along with your gear's abilities, to find a way to Ganon's Lair to defeat Ganon.
If you want my opinion on Zelda games most similar to Zelda 1, I think you really need look no further than the Item Randomizers made for most popular Zelda games by 3rd party developers. I think they know what's up.
Facts bro
Very well said. I play tons of ALTTP randomizer, especially entrance randomizer, and figuring out how the world unlocks and fits together is a key ingredient in the recipe for a fun Zelda.
Aonuma himself has never played more than like 30 minutes of Zelda 1 yet somehow gaslighted so much of this fanbase into thinking BotW is just like Zelda 1
@pitshoster401 fucking exactly. The game doesnt even look like zelda, nor does it even elicit the same feeling. Botw defenders saying, "This is his intended vision," are lying to themselves. It's insane they said they won't make another TP because they prefer cell shading and think a darker zelda won't work.
@@pitshoster401man you're always acting like a toxic little manchild in the comments of every single video about new Zelda. Your impotent crying is both pathetic and amusing.
I prefer Old ZELDA than New one, miss so much the real dungeons and a more cohesive story.
Something I can say is that the main reason Ocarina of Time is my favorite Zelda game is because of all the *purpose* in details, Easter Eggs, and content which not only help break linearity (until the game splits the adult temples into very basic progression checks, allowing for freedom of temple order) but streamline the experimentations process.
Many gamers don't even think like video game players and will assume their limited resources are harder to come by until proven otherwise, so a surplus of something like ammo helps give the opportunity to experiment with these items. Now how do you gain access to these upgrades? By exploring the focused towns filled with NPCs who matter to some degree.
Don't get me wrong, I love diegetic hints but they're so spread out and repetitive that I have so few NPCs that I like across both BotW and TotK compared to every MEANINGFUL sidequest in Skyward Sword.
And to further prove my point, it's very hard to not know what island you're on in Wind Waker, what loading zone you're in across Majora's Mask, which house you're in throughout Twilight Princess... But the open Zelda games definitely have a fair few skylines and rocky mountains that are just kind of generic and have no real identity to them. It's like, "oh yes, this is the non/snowy mountain that can see Rito Village." What else? No heart pieces or other goodies to TRULY distinguish is unless it's an already iconic part of the map like a fairy fountain from the prior game.
There's still empty space in the other Zelda games sure, but for every square inch of OoT's Hyrule Field that lacks a grotto, enemy encounter, or bush that'll magically drop resources, you have a square MILE in Tears or Breath with equally meaningless travel time.
And yet open Zelda still has some of the best world design in any open world game I've seen... It just becomes.... A little meaningless to traverse after a while. Which is a feeling only bloated by the size of the game, an issue that the NES original clearly never had.
love this thoughtful comment. i totally agree
This ^
💯 OoT's Hyrule feels larger than that of the Wild games, despite being far smaller. Having each area separated from each other - including areas that are either hidden or advanced parts of the story - and having you progress through them with direction and purpose spurred on by a well written story gave a much better sense of adventure.
The Wild games are fun to wander around in, but that's 90% of the game - both of them. Wander around and do countless redundant shrines that have a terrible thematic reason for being sprinkled around the world.
OoT and AlltP + AlbW will forever be the peak Zelda experiences. Traditional dungeons, rememberable NPCs, diverse exploration (linear, metroid-vania-esc but also open), amazing progression, music and story
I miss the music and instruments so dearly, I thought it was an important part of the Hero, his powers and his connection to the sages. Having a companion also; As much as I love the freedom, it feels so lonely.
And then they removed the only follower you could have: Wolf Link 🥲
Nintendo does have their work cut out for them in the next installment
Ngl, I like the old zelda games more like Oot MM and others like link awakening they are just really good
I finished OoT for the first time last year. And I gotta say I had more fun with the complexity of that games dungeon than I had with Tears of the Kingdom 1 month later. Ive always been a Zelda fan. And I think the problem has simple solution. The team need to ask themselves.
What is the function of all the players' abilities in the open world. All I remember doing in Tears was getting as high as possible. Or building this to get around that obstacle. While the latter can have its moments. I still see the value in my time getting progression items through trials. That taught me how to apply said items. While also making progress. Why are we stopping to learn practical application? That used to be baked into the experience. Tears had better dungeons than BotW. But they still pale in comparison to OoT
😢 i am never tired of the old zelda formula..
I love it
much as I'd like it to not be true, Nintendo probably won't ever achieve the same aesthetic and feel of the OoT.
I just feel like the older games delivered a more polished end product. I don't need to explore every single nook and cranny of the overworld, I just need some kickass dungeons that are well designed (and definitely not open world dungeons because that never worked out). That's the bare minimum for me. A BotW/TotK styled overworld is the cherry on top for me, not the meat and potatoes.
This this was fantastically produced. Well done on this video
Thanks, love your lore videos!
Totk is great but some more linearity and structure to dungeons and story would go a long way and be a nice contrast to the open air exploration
I love exploring In the new Zelda soo much, I don’t want that aspect to be linear again but the story and dungeons should absolutely be more linear.
I don’t understand why in totk you are asked to go to the rito region first but then you find a final memory there 😭
And the dungeons feels like a bunch of mini puzzles to activate terminals, I’d much prefer getting lost in a big dungeons and find keys to unlock deeper unknown areas that aren’t immediately accessible.
I love both style of Zeldas I just want a better mix of their individual qualities and to let go of what people don’t like.
Zelda team have to question a few things, they shouldn’t let their success blind them from improving
Very well said.
“They shouldn’t let their success blind them” That’s what I’m scared of. I can’t imagine the Zelda team becoming the new GameFreak. If that happens and the next Zelda game is a cash grab I’m never going to touch a Nintendo console ever again.
i did not head to the rito region first and imagine my thrill at finding out all armor upgrades are locked behind that questline 😅
Ahh yes a nuanced non, I hate the old/new thing take
Beautiful
nice editing on this whole video man, good work!
Thank you sir!
I’m in love with this editing. Very creative👌
i don't play these games for a worse oblivion/skyrim. i play them for a medieval metroid.
It’s skyrim with half baked survival mechanics
I’ll take interesting characters, a fleshed out and smaller world with interesting things to discover over(old Zelda) a massively open and empty world with nothing interesting to see except for a few shrines any day.
I want them to return to the older Zelda formula because it allows for a much better story/narrative. TOTK especially I felt pretty disappointed in the story. literally all 6 sages have the exact same story/cutscenes because they cant have anything out of order, so its all just the same thing 6 times, and everything unique/important to the story happens in the past so you as the player don't even get to experience it, you are just told what happens in some cutscene then you go back to killing monsters.
NO FUCKING SMARTPHONES/TABLETS. LOZ is medieval fantasy, no modern electronics are needed. Imagine if LOTR had fucking Elf Phones.
There's a lot of reasons I think going back to the older formula (or merging the linear formula with the open air formula), but one of the biggest ones is the game's progression. In both BoTW and ToTK, by the time you left the tutorial area, you had every one of Link's abilities and aside from narrative implications, there's really no incentive to explore the world. It's a slow and repetitive grind to gear up until you feel like killing the final boss. No upgrades (other than disposable weapons and heals), very few unique quests, and a lack of story. They put you in a world and expect you to explore it just because it's a video game, but there's not really that much of a reason to.
That, and that exploring the world just isn't very memorable. There's some cool moments for sure-- defending Gerudo Town with Riju is a notable example-- but since it's a completely open game there's not really a place to stick plot points or scripted encounters. Most of the story and cutscenes come in the tutorial and the final boss, and any cutscenes outside of that time are either repeated far too often or easily missable. Compare that to other Zelda games, where they can put plot points really anywhere in the story. Hell, that one bridge fight from Skyward Sword after the third dungeon is one of the coolest moments in the franchise in my opinion, and that's directly in the middle of the game. ToTK could never.
I think the problem with this mindset is that it assumes all players care that much about the story, when I think there are just different types of gamers out there that prioritize different things.
For me, for example, I sort of prefer the hands-off approach of story in Zelda, like say A Link to the Past. It's got enough to get you to understand why you're going around getting things, but it doesn't actively get in the way of you doing said task either, or constantly interrupt the gameplay with cutscenes. You aren't having random gates like having to talk to some dude, to go get a letter, to then bring that back to a woman who gives you tea for a guard, and the guard finally lets you up the mountain. The only thing stopping you from going to the mountain is just the previous dungeon's core item usually. Though in LTTP, once you get the first dungeon done in the Dark World, the rest of them can be done in almost any order.
For me, that's what Zelda's always supposed to have been about, starting with the first game. Actually going on an adventure and discovering things, not getting into a cutscene every time you walk into an area. Also, gameplay in general is more important to me, because, you can replay a good game with a mediocre or non-existent story, but you're almost never going to replay a mediocre or bad game with a good story.
The next Zelda game should be Kirby.
The editing alone made me sub
This was awesome, and the editing was fantastic. Subscribed.
Another problem I have in TotK is the enemy variety there are just a few more enemies instead of A LOT.
Enemy camps only consist of Bokoblins Moblins and sometimes lizalfos again the only new additions are the boss bokoblins and Aerocuda
BOTW was so overwhelming that even thinking about starting a new file is daunting and unappetizing
And there’s nothing really calling me back to it. What would I do?
Hunt more korok seeds and shrines or be frustrated in combat as I’m constantly punished by sticker star’s durability mechanics for having fun?
I love both formulas of Zelda
I couldn't agree with the thesis of this video more.
And the editing was NEXT LEVEL! Holy moly was it entertaining and smooth.
Thank you ❤
Oh my God I bet this means in the movie link is not gonna be dressed in green. 😢😭
Mad props for the animation work, dude. Post-Production was well executed, and it kept me paying attention to the next scene to see what happens. :D
I just want another Majoras Mask 😭
I feel like Nintendo could have their cake and eat it too if they wanted to. They are one of the most profitable companies in Japan, they could hire a whole team and train them to create more traditional Zelda games every 2-3 years. Meanwhile the main team could work on the next massive open world Zelda game.
I love the editing on this video; have a sub!
I think they could’ve re-invented the _Zelda_ formula through an open-world design, and still maintained the best of the series, like atmospheric puzzle-box dungeons of only they’d impose the tiniest of limits here and there… like perhaps you can’t climb virtually anything, and only the things one could logically climb, like trees and rocks?
and in _TOTK…_ just take away the ability to carry Zonai devices in your inventory (and Autobuild) and force the player to solve the “puzzle” with the given pieces… or give us a dungeon where your inventory and abilities are limited, similar to the Eventide-style shrines.
…games are built on limits, otherwise they’re just sandboxes. that, and just tell us a better story 🤷🏻♂️
This is a very simple and short video on the whole topic and i seriously dont think it needs to be longer. You hit the nail on the head right there. I think the answer really is that simple. You can appease both types of fans by refining what is there and i think the key to refining open world Zelda lies in the strengths of old Zelda elements. The innovative possibilities are endless.
The depths I see as a modern incarnation of the "dark world" concept, they could've drastically improved Totk in my eyes if they locked the depths behind needing to complete atleast like 2 of the surface dungeons as well as actually putting some dungeons IN the depths, cut out half the shrines and instead add the orbs of light as optional collectables in the dungeons
I feel like A Link Between Worlds and A Link To the Past did this middle ground the best. You have sections of the game that are completely free for exploration but occasional points of linearity to have the story flow in a natural manner.
Hot take but the gimmicky sandbox stuff (mostly ultrahand and ascend, despite being a nice QOL addition) really took me out of TOTK. I didn't mind it in BOTW because it still felt like old Zelda items streamlined into a new interface, and their uses had natural restrictions on them to not feel excessive except for bombs and stasis, which still felt natural and mostly believable to use. It just feels so unbelievably gimmicky in TOTK and while it's fun at first, it just did not feel like Zelda at all to me imo.
the editing of this video is insane
This video was wildly well done, nice job. Definitely subscribing
I think Elden Ring got it right down the middle in a brilliant way
Honestly, one of the best yt vids i’ve seen in along time. As someone who’s only played breath of the wild n totk I ADORE them. On the other hand It could’ve been harder, like a master mode n that’s n issue. Zelda is fun but it needs to be harder esp with the constant exploring.
Great vid, I would definitely love to see some og Zelda gameplay retuen
This is an awesome video. As a fan of the Zelda franchise since Ocarina of Time, I totally agree with what you say in this video.
Honestly, I think Aonuma’s new Zelda design philosophy is flawed. While BOTW and TOTK are fun games, they aren’t truly “Zelda” games.
It’s upsetting that the current formula seems to stem from the massive sales that BOTW made alongside the launch of the switch. But that’s the thing, the Nintendo Switch by itself is the third best selling console of all time.
That tells me that if Nintendo sold a more traditional Zelda title (with its own new gimmicks) alongside the release of the Switch, then the game would STILL sell more than any of the previous games combined. Aonuma attributes the success to the brand new Zelda formula, but I don’t think it’s quite as simple as that. The story elements have taken a massive blow in terms of quality when compared to previous titles.
To put it simply, I think they are just following the money :/
yeah i agree with you!
"Metroid hasn't received a true 3D game in 15 years."
Meanwhile, F-Zero fans continue sobbing over the two+ decades it's been since GX
Ironically enough they had the biggest middle ground be A Link Between Worlds. Open ended overworld with linear themed dungeons. AND a still GREAT story to boot.
But no earning items & too easy 😢
I adored the editing in this video!
I like the idea that you can explore all areas but they will be challanging
Youre massively underrated, and your take on how the new formulas could mix is one of the only ones I actually agree with. Great video, 10/10
editing - 10/10
storytelling - 10/10
J0J0 - 10/10
Yeah, 100%
So true!
I would be absolutely fine with gating off certain areas, as long as within each area there was a ton of secrets, sidequests, and other optional content. I feel like a small but dense over-world is superior to a sprawling but empty/repetitive open world.
Amazing video! I was making this exactly question while was playing totk... well done!
What I dislike in new Zelda games starting in SS is the portrayal of technology. From Ancient Technology to vehicles, it really took the fantasy and magic out of it for me.
I have to say, I agree. I think Skyward Sword had a good balance between magic and technology, but when they went all in for it in BOTW and especially TOTK, it just felt so not Zelda. One of many things about the new games that makes it feel so 'not Zelda'. I miss when a talking magical boat king was your companion and way of travel the whole game. Now the people in the new games canonically look at that and go, "Oh, talking boats? That's just a fairytale... That probably didn't really happen."
Very good point
Which Zelda game is SW?
@@azeplays3563 I meant Skyward Sword (SS), my bad. Edited the original comment to fix it
EDIT: I just realized OP said SW & I thought he meant Skyward, I actually don't know then.. huh...
@@thewindisblowing7520 yeah that's why I was asking lol. I saw op write it and figured it was a typo but then you did as well and I couldn't figure out if I was missing something 😂
the editing on this video was top notch
I hope they either continue to make both types of zelda, or combine the two to have large open worlds with tons of weapons you can find and ingredients to cook, but keep a lot of older parts about it where you have to explore dungeons to get items that will help you reach places you couldn’t before. Also bring back heart pieces because shrines are fun sometimes, but they get repetitive after a while.
This video was honestly such a joy to watch, the level of editing and storytelling combined with well timed jokes are really impressive! You earned a sub my guy! Keep on doing what you do
Both Zelda's are unique in their own right.
Fucking thank you
I mean yeah but they were able to craft such a magical experience into every inch with the more guided original approach. The open world really killed the magic and made everything bland repetitive and spread out.
And that is Exactly why people are kinda pissed...BoTW, ok. Tears of the KIngdom, I hate it! Its one thing to experiment, or to add new things, but to turn your back on everything that made the game great in the first place!!!! You dont have to fully go back to the old formula, but for god's sake man, bring back my favorite Zelda item, the hookshot!!!
Except they’re not. BoTW just bit dark souls/ most modern open worlds. If I wanted to play a boring ass open world I would play something else
@@MAR10WORLD period sis.
This is the best video I've seen about the comparison of new Zelda vs classic Zelda this is crazy you have my sub
To be honest, I liked Zelda a LOT because of the Dungeons/Puzzles AND Combat
The video editing here is phenomenal. Following!
Your editing is so good I had to stop what I was doing and actively watch all of it!
I first started Zelda with Oot 3D, but constantly needed guides and eventually dropped it. Later I started botw and really liked it. But now that I kinda get zelda better, I recently got a copy of Wind Waker and I've been enjoying it.
I think the two formats should coexist, with the classic style being for preexisting fans and the open-world games for everyone.
Breath of the Wild was fun, but not so much when I had to essentially replay it in Tears of the Kingdom.
Great fuck’n video man!
The script, editing, format, etc..I always end up with some little behind the scenes video like this playing either in the background, or forefront throughout my day…And this was truly as good as the best ones out there.
Keep it up 🤘
I always felt that the beauty in BOTW was in the perfect mix of the game and the "things you can do since beggining via a unintended way or do later with much concistency and practicality"
I really don't understand the issue with some linear progression when it comes to game design. This "go anywhere" philosophy can be a real blight on the adventure format. You can't feasibly create an adventure game made of limitless potential without losing the touch of the artist along the way. This is why open world games just become Minecraft eventually, its just a big playbox of make-your-own-fun type tools. Worst of all, the sense of progression is usually the thing that takes the biggest hit.
A lot of the time all you really need is well-perfected slight of hand that gives the FEELING of player-led exploration, while carefully guiding you, like a dungeon master might. You want to create scenarios that make your player eager to tackle problems head-on in an intuitive manner. The main thing that makes a player feel like they have agency is making sure that whatever choices you DO present in the game need to feel like they have tangible outcomes. Baldur's Gate 3 obviously took this to the nth degree, but you don't really even have to go that far most of the time.
But BG3 is a good example of having moderately sized maps, linear story progression, but brimming with interconnected content that keeps the player from feeling boxed in or begrudgingly led from A to B like they might have felt in Skyward Sword.
The devs from the new Zeldas seem to have looked at all the players attempts to break their games, reach hidden areas not meant to be accessed, and thought "why don't we incorporate that into the gameplay!", without realising that its breaking those rigid boundaries that people found fun. They very almost had the right idea with Breath of the Wild of creating consistent rules with their toolsets that apply in lots of different situations that could encourage interesting sequence breaking, but instead they just went awol and created a bunch of tools that feel like they were all originally intended to be used for debugging.
Exactly I dont find open world games fun !!
I think what made my mind on this was playing through age of calamity.
I don't particularly enjoy the gameplay. But the story on that game felt like true zelda. And I think that's where totk failed. It just provided a shallow story so that the gameplay could take over.
It really feels like Nintendo is chasing modern trends more than doing their own thing as they've gotten bigger as a company, at least with their more popular IPs as well as business practices anyway. I think they benefited more from being the underdog because of the amount of creativity they gave us during those times; at least when it came to the GameCube, DS and 3DS.
I think the problem is that in order to fit with the non linear gameplay the storytelling had to be relegated to a simplistic collection of story fragments. Both botw and totk stories and most of their NPCs are not memorable. Also, to help the immersion, Zelda has to recover its ability to deal with mature and emotional themes in a light hearted way. C'mon, if they were able to make us feel so many things with a deep narrative in a very limited cartridge in a game like majora s mask, how come the story of the switch games has to be so dull and uninspired. For me, the main issue isn't structure or gameplay, it's the story and atmosphere
I personally never thought the traditional style of Zelda felt old, it was never bad. It's because it has so much personality and uniqueness in dungeon environments and ideas style, I just thought maybe they begun to struggle with making unique dungeons by the half dozen, and these last two open world games only showed it more, that they're burning out on creativity and puzzle uniqueness...
I'm new here but the editing was phenomenal. I think I'll check out more of your stuff. Good job!
yo I watched a preview of this! it's great to see the whole thing now
As a Zelda fan. I know of a game that managed to get the old Zelda formula and the new formula to work together, and it was a big success. That game being Elden Ring.
Elden Ring is the best Zelda to come out in over 10 years.
yeah minus the puzzles and complex dungeons. sorry stonesword key
Not really, the dark souls formula is far different than any zelda game.
@@thomasw9286 Do you know that the No. 1 inspiration to From Software when making Elden Ring was Zelda BotW right?. It has its own Dark Souls formula to it. But some things are really similar to Zelda. Like exploration, Legacy dungeons, etc. It has its own identity and souls formula. But Zelda was a big influence nonetheless.
Love the dedication to the franchise people have. Even with all the differences of the game formats. Zelda is life 🫶🏼
I love Zelda wich is why i dont like the newer one WHY THE MASTER SWORD BREAK!? Why zelda is now little big planet creative mode?
I miss the excitement you get from doing a dungeon and getting a new weapon to help you through that dungeon. And idk I loved not being free to do what you want. I like formulas. Forest temples, then fire temples, then water and so on and so on. I just liked being more organized cause when I stop and pick up on it I'll know exactly what I'm doing. It may be because I'm old but I just like traditional Zelda games alot more
Nice editing! It was very pleasant to watch :)
Great video! Zelda needs a mix of old and new in the next installment.
I agree. I think they should do a linear story and linear dungeons, but have an open world or you can still do dungeons in any order you want not all of them, but most of them I think this would be the perfect mix
@@blakelandry9313 exactly
Nice edit using Zelda textures and Melee models.
A man of culture i see
I am worried that we lost what made Zelda, Zelda and that we'll never be able to have it again.
Yenno J was just thinking I miss the old zelda. 1 sword 1 shield 1 Bow. Not overly complicated
To me, being Open World was the new gimmick. Like being Wolf Link, or Minish Cap shrinking, or Link Between Worlds flattening on wall. I want to go back to Dungeons and Exploration. I like doing Dungeons in order, getting new Items as you go along, not all at once.
The biggest issue is not about suddenly changing the formula only for fans to crawl back to the traditional formula. It’s about giving the freedom to explore for the player’s content while maintaining the innovative dungeon designs, complex puzzles, and engaging story with fully fleshed out characters. (That and having Princess Zelda (preferably her Smash Ultimate appearance canon or not) as a true playable travel companion. Spirit Tracks was in the right direction with that, no cigar.)
Prior to Tears of the Kingdom’s announcement in 2019, there was a poll asking about what kind of Zelda game would we want to see in the future. “Keep what was done in BOTW” “Stray away from BOTW’s core gameplay but provide the similar open world experience” “Go back to traditional Zelda” “Give us more 2D Zelda” if I remember correctly. The “Stray but provide” option was the most popular. I can’t remember which website it was, but that’s what I would’ve wanted for the next Zelda to be at the time. Then, Tears of the Kingdom comes along and for 6 YEARS of utter secrecy, nobody knows what it’s even about nor how it plays compared to BOTW… the end result……… It’s testing ground 2.0…
The biggest issue I have with both games is the lack of value for exploration, and the fact that modern Zelda has a huge step up would suddenly take several more steps back from what made Zelda great and innovative in the first place. You have a massive world to explore with endless possibilities and pieces of character development and lore to go around… at least that’s what I would’ve hoped but neither game was that… instead all of that effort of development was invested solely on shrine trials that DRAG ON (pun intended) from beginning to end. Unfortunately, anything you explore ALWAYS centers around that! Which makes me wonder, is this the new formula Nintendo aims? 120 shrines + 16 DLC shrines + 152 more shrines + 120 lightroots that take up the game’s world with everything else having no value whatsoever and a bare bones narrative that the player has very little to no interaction with… I was hoping for the “stray but provide” route, but that’s not happening… SHRINE TRIALS ARE THE FUTURE OF ZELDA, and Nintendo’s not going to listen to the feedback. (Since when did they anyway?)
I’m really hoping they would combine the world exploration of BOTW/TOTK with the classic style gameplay of past Zeldas, but that’s not likely to be happening…
Having playing through both BOTW and TOTK back-to-back, I came to realize one thing…
The Era of the Wilds… taught me nothing… aside from the fact Nintendo wanted to start a whole new continuity to the series altogether… just abandoning the previous timeline and left it with more holes beyond repair as time went on.
Some things that need to change is we need more linearity. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but all games need a good balance between linearity and freedom in order to be great. That's just how it is.
@johnpett1955
Definitely.👍
Fierce diety (from majoras mask) themed game would be nice
I definitely prefer the old Zelda formula. That's not to say the new one is bad it's still great. But twilight princess is what got me into the series and it's the formula I love most. I do however think it's very possible and doable to merge the too together to get the best of both worlds. With a map the size of breath of the wild/ tears of the kingdom. It be easy to limit how much of the map the player can explore while still feeling free and worth exploring. The map is huge there's plenty of space
Bro Egoraptor sure as hell doesn't speak for everyone xD
I feel like the games will go in the direction of combining old with new to improve the experience. For example: people didn’t like the Divine Beasts, so Nintendo made dungeons that better fit with older games while still having more freedom like the newer games. I have a feeling the next main line title will be a bit smaller than the last two, so they might bring back older styles in terms of more grounded stories and stranger settings and characters.