What is the minimum of this expression?

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  • Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 124

  • @nikitakipriyanov7260
    @nikitakipriyanov7260 3 роки тому +66

    8:11 yes, we can get this inequality other way, which is much more conventional.
    We have a cubic polynomial p(x) = x³-ax²+bx-a, which has three real roots. Its graph therefore has a minimum and a maximum, or at least an inflection point, where both derivative is zero and value of polynomial is zero. The derivative p'(x) = 3x²-2ax+b and it must have two real roots (maybe, a double root), so its discriminant must be non negative. So we have: D=(2a)²-4*3*b = 4(a²-3b)≥0, which implies a²-3b≥0

    • @joshdilworth3692
      @joshdilworth3692 3 роки тому +1

      I would never have thought of that, good intuition!

    • @chahatgulati6752
      @chahatgulati6752 3 роки тому

      Nice

    • @bangstar719
      @bangstar719 3 роки тому

      why it is necessary for p'(x) that it must has 2 roots?

    • @nikitakipriyanov7260
      @nikitakipriyanov7260 3 роки тому

      @@bangstar719 Cubic p(x) has three roots when it has an inflection point and two extrema (one local maximum, one local minimum), and in one of which it has negative value, on the other a positive value. Those extrema lie exactly where p'(x)=0, so there must be two roots of a derivative for the cubic to have three roots.

  • @quickspace861
    @quickspace861 3 роки тому +16

    Woah, that trick with dot products of parallel vectors is so nice!

  • @blackpenredpen
    @blackpenredpen 3 роки тому +62

    Your thumbnail is 👍 👍!!!

    • @soulsilencer1864
      @soulsilencer1864 3 роки тому +2

      Hi, can you make a video about proving an integral is nonelementary?

    • @orenfivel6247
      @orenfivel6247 3 роки тому

      Can u make a similar DI setup for :
      -Summation by parts (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summation_by_parts) ;
      -Abel's summation formula (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel%27s_summation_formula) ?

  • @AndreiPaval
    @AndreiPaval 3 роки тому +109

    There's a mistake at 3:55, when you cube the inequality 3*cuberoot(a) less than a, you get 27*a less than a^3, not a^2.

    • @ΘωμάςΠέτρου-ψ9β
      @ΘωμάςΠέτρου-ψ9β 3 роки тому

      Correct

    • @juanixzx
      @juanixzx 3 роки тому +6

      But he solve it right away, clever guy

    • @viper-sagi
      @viper-sagi 3 роки тому +6

      if you pay close attention this is actually a typo (and he misspoke) but the math is still correct

    • @juanixzx
      @juanixzx 3 роки тому

      @@viper-sagi yes, that's true, but he didn't say yo us for his mistake, So we can learn wrong.

    • @reidflemingworldstoughestm1394
      @reidflemingworldstoughestm1394 3 роки тому +4

      He had already finished the next step in his head by the time he started writing down the exponent.

  • @蛰扉
    @蛰扉 3 роки тому +50

    for the dot product explanation, using Cauchy Swartz (which is literally the same thing) suffices. But the statement a^2+ b^2+c^2 》ab+bc+ac has many ways to prove.

    • @Miguel-xd7xp
      @Miguel-xd7xp 3 роки тому +4

      Rearrangement inequality as well

    • @ChrisConnett
      @ChrisConnett 3 роки тому +1

      Ohhhh! Thanks for pointing out that this is all Cauchy-Schwartz is saying. CS felt like this arcane fact, but the dot product argument was so much clearer.

  • @ConManAU
    @ConManAU 3 роки тому +27

    If you want to be really thorough, you can note that the AM-GM inequality becomes an equality only when all the inputs are equal, which in this case gives r1 = r2 = r3 = sqrt(3)

    • @leif1075
      @leif1075 3 роки тому

      Cant you solve this without AM and GM ?

  • @zwxyer
    @zwxyer 3 роки тому +4

    Instead of dot product
    We can write
    (r1-r2)^2+(r2-r3)^2+(r3-r1)^2≥0
    On expanding we get the required inequality

  • @LysyDzban
    @LysyDzban 3 роки тому +4

    In 8:30, knowing that b is positive from polynomial roots, we can find the minimal value much easier, using a^2/3>=b inequality:
    (2a^3-3ab+3a)/(b+1)
    >=(2a^3-3a*a^2/3+3a)/(a^2/3+1)
    =3a>=9sqrt(3), which gives us the same potential minimum

  • @orenfivel6247
    @orenfivel6247 3 роки тому +45

    8:55, what happened to coeff of a^3 that is changed from 2 to 3?

    • @emiltonklinga3035
      @emiltonklinga3035 3 роки тому +14

      Just a typo.

    • @orenfivel6247
      @orenfivel6247 3 роки тому +5

      @@emiltonklinga3035
      3's and 2's are repeated typos here :)

    • @eithan
      @eithan 3 роки тому +4

      That's a classic Michael Pen mistake, you can find those in many of his videos :)
      Doesn't diminish his great content though.

    • @lisandro73
      @lisandro73 3 роки тому

      I paused the video and have to answer the same, just a classic doctor Penn typo, I liked them they make me think and check

  • @giacomorapisardi877
    @giacomorapisardi877 3 роки тому +5

    The a^2>3b inequality can be derived by imposing that the derivative of the third degree polynomial has two positive real roots, which is a necessary condition to the fact that the the polynomial has three roots

  • @ashutoshjangle7926
    @ashutoshjangle7926 3 роки тому +11

    You also have to check that the final value of a and b make the poly one with 3 positive roots

    • @robertgerbicz
      @robertgerbicz 3 роки тому +4

      Exactly, that is a hole at the end of the video. The polynom actually factors as (x-sqrt(3))^3.

    • @ihti20
      @ihti20 3 роки тому

      Yeah, it needs clarification, we either allow degenerate roots or just say poly has only positive real roots. Otherwise we should use strict inequality, minimum will act as a limit, but its value remains the same, it just can't be reached.

  • @chessematics
    @chessematics 3 роки тому +1

    Good motivation for me, as i am starting off with AP-GP in a few weeks. Kudos to this beautiful channel

  • @littlefermat
    @littlefermat 3 роки тому +3

    Always vieta when dealing with roots!

  • @Pengochan
    @Pengochan 3 роки тому +2

    (r1-r2)^2>=0 so 1/2*r1^2+1/2*r2^2>=r1*r2, same for r1,r3 and r2,r3. Combine all three.

  • @leecherlarry
    @leecherlarry 3 роки тому +4

    compi does it too:
    *Minimize[{(2 a^3 - 3 a b + 3 a)/(b + 1), x^3 - a x^2 + b x - a == 0, x > 0}, {a, b}, Reals] // FullSimplify*

  • @adminguy
    @adminguy 3 роки тому +6

    3:49 I have a quick question. Genuine question. Why cubing both side will result in RHS becoming a^2 instead of a^3?

    • @alexandermendez6083
      @alexandermendez6083 3 роки тому +3

      It does not. He just made a mistake.

    • @adminguy
      @adminguy 3 роки тому +2

      @@alexandermendez6083 Thanks Alexander.

    • @suhail_69
      @suhail_69 3 роки тому

      @@adminguy but he corrected it in the very next step 👍

  • @barbietripping
    @barbietripping 3 роки тому +1

    I should stop solving based on the thumbnail. I figured there was no minimum until I clicked and saw the restriction

  • @user-ez1in7rq6w
    @user-ez1in7rq6w 2 роки тому

    The second inequality to bound b can be found easier using basic inequalities. Just use the arithmetic - quadratic inequality on the sum of squares of roots:
    sqrt((r1²+r2²+r3²)/3) >= (r1+r2+r3)/3
    by squaring both sides, replacin sum of squares of roots with a²-2b and replacin sum of roots with a you get that b

  • @extensionsorbit7727
    @extensionsorbit7727 3 роки тому +4

    Mistake at 8:40 (it should be 2a^3)

  • @ΓιώργοςΚοτσάλης-σ1η

    4:34 Michael Sussy...

  • @tomatrix7525
    @tomatrix7525 3 роки тому

    A important note on his usage of the dot product inequality is that it is only true if r1 r2 and r3 are not equal, since otherwise it would still be the same vector and thus equal, but we know the roots are not equal because of they were the cubic would be a perfect cube, but given that it says the roots are all positive, there is no way -a is a perfect cube, since 3 positive no.s multiplied gives positive.

  • @davidseed2939
    @davidseed2939 3 роки тому +1

    At 9:40 the factorisation is wrong. Should be 3a(a^2+2)

  • @michaelma5480
    @michaelma5480 3 роки тому

    For the dot product one you can try the rearrangement inequality. It’s really useful and can be used to prove things like AM-GM and Cauchy-Schwarts.

  • @stvp68
    @stvp68 3 роки тому +1

    Love your channel, but that red chalk is difficult to read on my phone screen 2:50

  • @ivandebiasi6657
    @ivandebiasi6657 3 роки тому +13

    How at 9:00 2a^3 become 3a^3 in the numerator?
    EDIT: i figured out is only a type error

  • @helo3827
    @helo3827 3 роки тому +1

    The dot product inequality is basically the rearrangement inequality

  • @alfrednik07
    @alfrednik07 3 роки тому +14

    I think you made a mistake at 3:58, you Shall not square both sides, you should cube them

    • @emiltonklinga3035
      @emiltonklinga3035 3 роки тому +9

      He actually did. The 27a ≤ a² was just a typo and should of course have been 27a ≤ a³. You see that in the next step when he divides by a and achieves 27 ≤ a².

    • @timothywhalen2350
      @timothywhalen2350 3 роки тому

      The result a >= 3 sqrt(3) is still correct, since the inequality a^2 >= 27 follows from a^3 >= 27 a, since a must be greater than 0 (since it is the product of positive roots).

  • @mathmancalc7753
    @mathmancalc7753 3 роки тому +3

    Love your videos, but can you check the factoring at 9:33? I can factor out 3a, but not 2a.

    • @iwersonsch5131
      @iwersonsch5131 3 роки тому +1

      He typoed the 3a³, it's actually 2a³.

  • @wpowell96
    @wpowell96 3 роки тому

    For a finite list of positive numbers, you can prove the inequality by ordering the numbers then using a greedy algorithm. I.e., to maximize the sum of 1 number, we want the biggest number multiplied by the largest factor (itself) then repeat on the remaining numbers via induction to get the sum of squares. I recall this proof being used in competition prep to show that the maximal sum of products of two positive ordered sequences is to pair the terms using the same numbering, while to minimize the sum, you simply reverse one of the sequences

  • @honortruth5227
    @honortruth5227 3 роки тому

    Solving over the integers, 6 is perfect = 1 + 2 + 3 = 1*2*3, and the min in this case is 21.

  • @CM63_France
    @CM63_France 3 роки тому

    Hi,
    For fun:
    0:13 : "our goal is to",
    4:18 : "ok, great",
    8:22 : "our goal is to".

  • @goodplacetostop2973
    @goodplacetostop2973 3 роки тому +13

    12:09

  • @yoav613
    @yoav613 3 роки тому +3

    The minimum 9sqrt3 is for one positive root with multiplicity 3 and not for 3 positive roots

    • @kevinmartin7760
      @kevinmartin7760 3 роки тому +2

      The way I read it, the problem did not state that the roots had to be distinct, just real and positive. Although one might be of the view that multiple (multiplicitous?) roots are a single root, perhaps the wording should have been that "all the roots are positive real) rather than "has 3 positive real roots".
      If you require all roots to be distinct I suspect there is no minimum for the expression, just an infimum (whose value is 9sqrt(3)).

    • @yoav613
      @yoav613 3 роки тому

      @@kevinmartin7760 yes but when you say 3 it may confuse at least i was confused so it is more clear if you say all the roots are positive or to say including roots with multiplicity

    • @GreenMeansGOF
      @GreenMeansGOF 3 роки тому +1

      Yes. The problem does not say that the roots must be distinct. I believe that if we force the roots to be distinct, there is no minimum value.

    • @yoav613
      @yoav613 3 роки тому +1

      @@kevinmartin7760 and yes there is no minimum if they are distinct so i break my head to figure it out until i saw the solution

    • @eduardomalacarne9024
      @eduardomalacarne9024 3 роки тому

      @@kevinmartin7760 maybe can have a solution to three diferent positive roots, but i thought would need to use complete cubic root formula, but i'm not sure

  • @Notthatkindofdr
    @Notthatkindofdr 2 роки тому

    I went to the discriminant of the cubic which took me way longer to work out and then ended up being a much more complicated inequality that I couldn't use...

  • @goodplacetostop2973
    @goodplacetostop2973 3 роки тому +6

    HOMEWORK : Compute the length of the interval of values x for which 1/(x + √x) + 1/(x - √x) ≥ 1.
    SOURCE : ARML Local 2014

    • @wavyblade6810
      @wavyblade6810 3 роки тому +1

      Wait, was this video ready to watch 4 days ago?

    • @falquicao8331
      @falquicao8331 3 роки тому

      Bigger than or equal to what?

    • @goodplacetostop2973
      @goodplacetostop2973 3 роки тому +1

      @@falquicao8331 Bigger than or equal to 1.

    • @goodplacetostop2973
      @goodplacetostop2973 3 роки тому

      SOLUTION
      *2*
      1/(x + √x) + 1/(x - √x) = 2x/(x(x-1)). The domain of the function is all positive x except 1. For x between 0 and 1, the denominator is negative, so the function is negative. For x greater than 1, the function is strictly decreasing. It equals 1 when 2x/(x(x-1)) = 1, or x = 3, so the interval is (1,3) which has length 2.

    • @adamadam-vx7zq
      @adamadam-vx7zq 3 роки тому

      Where are you from? ...another galaxy....what time is in your galaxy now?

  • @DatBoi_TheGudBIAS
    @DatBoi_TheGudBIAS 3 роки тому

    When I saw Dat a=r1+r2+r3=r1r2r3, I remembered Dat when a+b+c=abc, one or the only solution is √3
    assuming a=b=c.
    So a would be 3√3 and b √3√3+√3√3+√3√3=9
    Dat was wat u got in the inequality for a and if u had replace the a in the b inequality, and idk any of that complex stuff

  • @s.m.m99203
    @s.m.m99203 3 роки тому

    Hello
    ... and what if such values for a and b (11:30) didn't exist?
    Could you please solve an example for that condition?

  • @ricardoonlymaths
    @ricardoonlymaths 3 роки тому

    If you use the fact that (r1-r2)^2+(r2-r3)^2+(r3-r1)^2 is bigger than or equal to 0 you can prove a^2 is bigger than or equal to 3b

  • @oannguyenthanh2316
    @oannguyenthanh2316 3 роки тому

    I suggest using AM GM inequality again when trying to substitute the sum of squared value

  • @savagezerox
    @savagezerox 3 роки тому +1

    @8:48, where did you get the 3 coefficient in 3a^3? it was a 2 before.

  • @bemusedindian8571
    @bemusedindian8571 3 роки тому +1

    Use of dot product was good.

  • @pandabearguy1
    @pandabearguy1 3 роки тому

    Whats the biggest it can be while being smaller than the next biggest it could be

  • @Hap1921
    @Hap1921 3 роки тому

    For the inequality that you proved using dot product , here's the simpler way
    From AM>=GM
    r1^2 + r2^2 >= 2r1r2
    r2^2 + r3^2 >= 2r2r3
    r1^2 + r3^2 >= 2r1r3
    Add all these and you get the result

  • @TheJulijiji
    @TheJulijiji 3 роки тому

    But with a=3sqrt(3) and b=9 the polinomial expresión don't have 3 positive real roots, it just has x=sqrt(3)

    • @nikitakipriyanov7260
      @nikitakipriyanov7260 3 роки тому +1

      In algebra the poly'al of nth degree always has n complex roots. Some (even all) of them could coincide, they sometimes referred to as a root of multiplicity greater than one. For example, x⁵=0 has 5 roots: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, or, a root 0 of multiplicity 5.

  • @amine.-taibi.8072
    @amine.-taibi.8072 3 роки тому

    At 10:10 factor 3a not 2a. Thanks

  • @mathunt1130
    @mathunt1130 3 роки тому

    Why not just use Legrange multipliers?

    • @jimskea224
      @jimskea224 3 роки тому

      Because the condition on the cubic polynomial is not an equality.

  • @danielbranscombe6662
    @danielbranscombe6662 3 роки тому

    lol, was watching on mute and spent about 10 minutes how you got (r1+r2+r3)/3 = 9/3 before I was able to take off mute and realized you wrote a/3

  • @iamadooddood4331
    @iamadooddood4331 3 роки тому

    "And I think there's maybe an easy way to do this"
    Isn't that just the rearrangement inequality?

  • @somasahu1234
    @somasahu1234 3 роки тому

    From when he stopped saying that's a gud place to start and started saying that its a gud place to stop ‽

  • @rssl5500
    @rssl5500 3 роки тому

    I have no idea !

  • @adamadam-vx7zq
    @adamadam-vx7zq 3 роки тому

    Sir you make a mistake at 3:58 betwen a square to a cube. U r humain like us .never mind.thanks for you.we miss your live stream

  • @Qermaq
    @Qermaq 3 роки тому

    9:30 so 3/2=2?

  • @lavneetjanagal
    @lavneetjanagal 3 роки тому +5

    A math professor was teaching calculus in college. At one point he was making mistakes in writing on the blackboard. One student pointed out the mistake to which the professor replied, "don't focus on what I am writing, focus on what I am saying".
    This continued and after some time he starts making mistakes in what he was saying too. The perplexed student pointed it out again. The professor said, "Focus not on what I am writing, bother not about what I am saying but rather feel what I am feeling".

  • @ignacioelia759
    @ignacioelia759 3 роки тому +2

    So, basically with this video I've learned that 2 = 3

  • @jbtechcon7434
    @jbtechcon7434 3 роки тому +2

    Why do I find some math problems like this one just irritating?

  • @SlipperyTeeth
    @SlipperyTeeth 3 роки тому

    The values for a and b given at the end yield a cubic equation in x with only 1 positive real root of multiplicity 3.
    I would interpret this as being invalid given how the question is worded. Then again, I think if we don't allow it then there is no minimum and just an infimum.

  • @matteoanoffo1447
    @matteoanoffo1447 3 роки тому

    After you get a≥3√3 and a²≥3b i Just put 3√3 in the fraction because a Is only in the numerator so the small a Is the small the fraction Will be. Then After some Easy calculation i get 9√3(19-b)/(b+1) wich Is Always decreasing, so i Only find when a²=3b wich is b=9, and put this back in the fraction we get 9√3

    • @robertveith6383
      @robertveith6383 3 роки тому +1

      The denominator needs to have grouping symbols around it: (b + 1)

    • @matteoanoffo1447
      @matteoanoffo1447 3 роки тому

      @@robertveith6383 thank you!

  • @parsanoori8217
    @parsanoori8217 3 роки тому

    How can you assure that one cannot find some other inequalities to use so that the minimum values that he finds gets smaller than what you've got.

  • @PubicGore
    @PubicGore 3 роки тому +6

    I can't believe you didn't mention Vieta's fomulas when expanding (x-ri).