Vertical Dropouts, No Tensioner
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- Опубліковано 1 лют 2018
- Yeeeeshh hopefully this single speed tinkering video makes up for the last upload!
Thanks UlimateRT for sharing this link:
eehouse.org/fixin/formfmu.php
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teespring.com/spindatt-mug-rr...
The money made from those sales will be put back into creating content for this here channel that I love so dearly.
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Liking your vlogs lately, been watching for about a year. My girlfriend loves dogs, and I love bikes, so it's the perfect combination! Norton looks like a bigger version of a dog I used to have a while ago, and I always see a blue Felt VR30 in your shop, which is the bike I own. Keep up the good work, your inspiring me to ride my bike in freezing temperatures!
A real single speed cog and a narrow wide ring with a 3/32 kmc drop buster chain have been great on my magic gear sscx. It’s slightly tight with a new chain and even after tons of miles and visible drooping, I never dump my chain. Poaching a cog from a used cassette is a recipe for dropped chains.
Chain stretch. It’s never going to last long before your chain starts flopping off. Still very satisfying to get that gearing right and pop the wheel in place 😀
took 3 months (daily usage of 30km on a fixed route) then the chain become to slack...
Did something similar on old bike. Had 38t chainring at the front on 104bcd crank and 18t single speed cog at the back. As long I was running new chain, this setup was good. Maybe would have more luck with some narrow wide chainring at the front, but they didn't exist then anyway^^
OMG I have watched (I'm guessing) all of your videos in the last 2 years but I stumbled here from googling something else and I had never seen a video from this era. I loved sorta loved it.
Dude, finally someone did it, I've been downgrading(well, destroying really) my old mtb to a single speed. Searching online the pros, cons, and this guy actua- o shit, a chaindrop at the end... Ah nevermind.. Subbed.
Tinkering is the best, I was able to run no tensioner on an old Scott road bike.
the best test is to spinn the backweel backwards and shake the bike with the driveside facing down.
#trackbikelessons
I mean yes, a tensioner doesn't look all that hawt, but i think its alright,plus you get really good chaintension.
conerted my hardtail into a rigid singlespeed with 34t chainring 14t cog, 29er wheels and tires. Accelerates decently with28-30km/h speed on the flat with a comfy cadence
Would you ever think about using a ghost ring for tension. To convert you are dropouts into a fixed or single gear bike?
First time I've thought about it, since I switched to a track cog on my winter MTB, I haven't thrown one chain (besides breaking a quick link).
No way a half link would work with those ratios, it moves it too much.
1 link is 1/2" half link 1/4" one tooth 1/8"
I had to file some of my axle flat to give another 2mm or so adjustment.
Cassette cogs will launch your chain. When you decide on your ratio get a surly cog. The best way to go is to use a White Industries ENO eccentric hub. OR just get an older steel touring or mtb frame with horizontal dropouts. You can probably find one cheaper than a new WI wheel. Ive got an old Miyata frame with a White hub (not eccentric) I use a surly dingle double fixed cog 17/21teeth,WI double freewheel
Quick question for you and a possible video for you to do before shop closes. I bought some new aero drop bars. However, I’m not an experienced mechanic and want to learn to cable route. Im good with indexing but not installing break/derailure cables internally through a bar. Any advice would be great!
Ayyyyye that unicorn gear 🦄
I do appreciate you ending each video with Norton
Got my coffee mug!! ☕️
Im sure youve looked at Sheldon Browns singlespeed chapter. Lots of good tricks there.
Probably the best way to go with vertical dropouts and no tensioner is a WI Eno eccentric hub. Expensive but worth it. I lucked out, got one for $40 from someone who didnt know what they had! It was covered in spray paint! I probably could have gotten it for $20!
If you have a hub with a threaded axle and lock nuts just cut the axle ends flush with lock nuts. QR will hold wheel in frame. Use a Shimano or high quality closed cam QR!! This will give you maybe 2 or 3 millimeters adjustment on chain.
You could also file the drop outs just a little , but be real careful!
The problem with a ‘magic gear’ is there is still no means to tension chain. Once it wears you will have to replace it. AND OFTEN. Singlespeeds eat chains!
Yey! Norton made it to the vlog!
...also I need a nut like you had there that connected the tensioner to the RD Hanger - what is it..? Thanx.
Haha I just read you dont want to spend any money. Well, if it makes you feel any better I got my Miyata frame for free! I work in a shop too. Fixed/singlespeed is a blast. I ride fixed offroad mostly. Freewheel is only for when Im real tired or fast descents. Fixed offroad gives you a lot more control of speed and traction. I have 5 gear combos on my set up. It took a bit of tinkering but its working great. I rarely ride my derailleur bikes anymore!
how about to change external multiple gear to fix gear with vertical dropout? it's still possible?
I've had the same chain drop issues using a single cog from a cassette before. I did however have success using an old freewheel cassette, the screw on type. Old tech from before the teeth were optimized for improved shifting performance, it just wants to grab the chain and not drop it. If you have a dad bike that comes with a freewheel cassette, just try yanking off the derailleurs, shorten the chain and it might work without any issues!
I could see that working. The taller unramped teeth of older cogs would hold it on pretty solid!
I’m actually thinking of throwing a derailleur back onto this thing for a little while, but plan to get a single speed chainring and cog for the next setup!
Yeah it looks super haggard of course because you can't just use one cog, you have to leave on the whole block but since when is this about aesthetics? (I mean it definitely is, like at least 50% but it's all meta and ironic haha).
This and the "super cheap gravel bike" video inspired me to finally do something with that old steel cyclo x frame I have. I was originally planning to do it up single speed with town bars but your videos changed changed my mind, I reckon I'd like to have gears with those sluggish knobbly tires. Interesting to see you apparently like it better as a single speed, especially as you're kinda stuck with a semi random unicorn gear ratio!
I need helpp, I've got an old "Dad bike" and the current gears (21speed), chain and shifters are shot, I wanna go Fixed or single speed (more preferable fixed) but my bikes got a vertical drop thing. Can I run a fixed or single gear? Would I need one of those tensioners? Also can I just remove 2 of the 3 front chain rings? Thanks in advance
Great video as normal
try using a narrow wide chainring maybe that will help
Hi! What's the crankset is in this bike (in this video)? I've been looking for silver/metallic color crankset which does not use square taper bb.
Use a 1x wolf tooth ring the longer teeth more stop it dropping
genuine excitement when the 15 tooth worked, awesome homie!
Spoke tensioner 🤷🏻♂️ could be fun
What are you using for freehub spacers...PVC pipe..?
Experimenting is what gave all us cyclists 🚵♀️ gears in the first place, however I now realise that I really do miss my single speed bike from when I was a little boy and when I have the money 💵 I will get my conversion kit for my old 26” Dawes mountain bike of which will then be a cruiser style bike with BMX handlebars then I will be really 😃.
i have never owned or rode a single speed your videos are tempting me
I made one as a Christmas holidays project to see what all the fuss 'n' hoopla was about, and it surprised me how much fun it is to ride.
Single speeds are awesome
I realize i came a little late to the party. Have you ever heard of people using another chainring as a tensioner? So you have the “chainring” and your “rear cog”. And then in between the two you place another chainring to use as a tensioner. I’ve seen pictures and read about it a few times, but haven’t heard any feedback as to its reliability? I think it’s supposed to stay wherever it’s situated within the chain? I’m really digging the channel, the content and the bike silliness! I also just really love bicycles and love doing stoopid things on bicycles. On a side note while i can appreciate you giving random frames new life and really enjoying them, I feel like you should have some more steel frames in your life ;). Speaking of steel frames, i purchased a steel sequoia 3 months ago and am over the moon about it(fuggin’ fun)! Anyhoo, thanks for doing what you do. I now have dreams of riding gravel and going on bike adventures in Nova Scotia. Like the wind!
BMX freewheels or track cogs on a threaded hub Rock! Longer Teeth on the cog make a world of difference
Make SURE you carefully clean the hub threads with alcohol. Use blue Loctite on the threads for fixed cogs and get 'em really tight. If you use freewheel hubs for fixed gears be aware of what you're doing. LEARN mechanics and the laws of motion and inertia. SCIENCE!
If you're a rider lacking (not so) common sense and ride busy public roads without brakes, USE a track hub with a lock ring. Your life depends on your COG NOT UNSCREWING!
So I have a single speed with horizontal/breezer dropouts. I have the flip flop hub but when I flip it to fixed The chain is definitely too loose.. I'm very new to bike maintenance, what's the best way to make sure the chain is tight for these type of dropouts and fix gear?
If they are the ones that go straight back, with the opening at the end of the frame, all you need is to break the chain and put the wheel as far forwards in the dropout as possible and put the two ends of the chain together. Then you break off enough links so the chain is just long enough for proper tension, and connect it back together with a quick link.
If you can't get proper tension, which is usually the case, you need to buy a chain tug like the surly tuggnut or use a half link chain which will give greater adjustability. And you never want to have your rear axle any further back than as far forwards as it can go unless if you have a chain tug like the tugnutt, or it'll slip when cranking hard
Nice video
Hey brother so will there be another shop or?? And i enjoy your vids bro.
What kind of numbers are we talking about when it comes to chain stretch from brand new to worn out? Depending on the number of links, how much movement would that result in up and down mid-chain?
It might work for a single speed but a fixed gear would feel like a limping hippo.
The chain manufacturers recommend replacement at .5% wear. If you measure 12 links of chain, when that 12" (measured when new) becomes 12 1/16" replace the chain. Take good care of your chain and you can get 4-5 chains worth of use out of a set of gears. Mine wear this well.
This minimizes chainring and cog wear. The much more expensive components.
On a singlespeed, Since you're always on the same gear and often pushing really hard, singlespeed drivetrains wear faster. Use inexpensive chains and replace them often. Especially on a fixed gear where your life might depend on your chain.
Reliability rules: YOU GOTTA TAKE CARE OF YER SHIT. A Hell's Angel once gave me that advice.
dam thank bro
Whats the chain discs sizes ?
what nobody tells you is the cogs on these single speed conversions sprockets are a lot taller ,i ran into that realization when i converted mine . didnt need a tensioner at all even tho its loose and hanging down a little. the chain just wont slip because of that. why it did on u is maybe u had a different type of chain than mine.
I was curious about the hats I see you wearing... You make them yourself ? Are you going to be marketing them ?
Nope, they're pretty popular in Europe. Those and the military berets...
cuantos dientes atras y cuantos dientes alante??
Norton's tongue-out face always cracks me up.
Im building up a old rockhopper in to a diet cheep dj bike. I have no hanger or even a place too mount one so I need to make it without a chain tensioner wish me luck
Looks like you have a modular dropout there.
You don't lock up your wheels? Which beautiful and safe city is this?
Are you capable of super-human cadence or why so short gearing?
34x19 is under 2:1 and 34x15 is just above 2:1. I run 42x14 which is 3:1 and all the SS bikes I've built have been around 3:1.
Isn't 2:1 very short or am I pedalling with a way too low cadence maybe? I do find it easier to push hard in low cadence rather than not pushing so hard at a high cadence, I know the latter is better for my knees but I like a long gear.
Regarding magic gears, I find that its not viable in the long run. If its perfect with a new chain, its going to be way too loose when its a bit stretched out, so you need to be running used chains but in good condition all the time. I had it like this for over a year, but with the climate here in the winter and all the salt and dirt it picks up, the chains do not last very long. So I had the routine of putting a new chain on my Nexus geared cargo bike, used it for a bit (I noticed it does most of its stretching pretty fast) and then put the chain on the SS :D Got tired of it and changed dropouts on the bike in the end!
Oh boy! Exciting times!
I knew that you'd drop your chain, cassette sprockets are made to throw the chain off (source: I did the same thing you did when I started to mess with unicorns). You have to get a Shimano DX sprocket ( costs the same as a great cup of coffee) or something similar that has long enough teeth to keep the chain on, I've been riding my unicorn with way looser chain than your 34x15 (edit: same as your 34x19) without problems for weeks. Also, maybe, probably... chainline ua-cam.com/video/sFMa1EP7d2M/v-deo.html
Can a half link chain help eat the chain slack?
Might be me, but isn't this a super spinny gear ratio? Cause I ride 48/17. Rode 15 before, but that was way to big.
You are not wrong! Its actually a fun gear for tooling around in the city but for any real riding its garbage. I actually put a derailleur back on this bike
New chain with no stretch might be perfect. 🤷♂️
Yeah, I agree with a few of the commentators below. The basic premise of steel chain is that it's going to stretch and this is exactly the point of having horizontal dropouts on track bikes. You make really cool videos but this was a purely romantic thought inevitably doomed for failure but for possibly a single ride.
That’s very true, however it is still going strong with a new chain on!
Spindatt, I kind of dream about those carbon belt drives myself. Absolutely solves the problem in your case, except of course for having to hack open and reweld or rebuild the rear triangle. Probably not all that likely with aluminum though...
Haha probably not a very feasible way of converting to belt drive! Although I’ve got enough friends who are red seal fabricators/welders that if I had plans for a more permanent single speed setup I might be able to get some help with something like that.
Spindatt I'm thinking it's the future and I am absolutely sure my jeans agree with me.
But now you have the gear ratio of my grandma.
He put on that gear to ride in the snow. Have you ever ridden in the snow? Its not easy and you wouldnt want to go faster than your gramma!!
Low fixed gears are actually awesome for snow or anything slippery. You get increased traction, braking and control on slippery surfaces due to being able to control speed with your feet.
But what pressure your grandma is running?
Bayer If youre asking about tires, I run 33-36c ‘cross tires set up ghetto tubeless. It rarely snows where I live but riding in snow is similar to riding in sand or loose mud.
Just like racing ‘cross in the loose and slop I run in the low 20s and Im pretty careful when cornering hard. I have rolled tires a couple times when I didnt check pressures before the ride. If you ride a fast smooth paved road at these pressures the tires feel pretty unstable pedaling hard through corners. My bike is ridden fixed mostly so I have to NEVER STOP PEDALING!
your grandma's a bad ass
How about an excentric bottom bracket? (i know very expensive) Or a halflink chain.
yeah those threaded eccentric bb's are wild expensive! I actually threw a new chain on and the lack of stretch made up for the slack. although a good single speed 3/32 chainring and cog would fix the chain drop issue forever even as the chain stretched
The Chain will become slack and eventually will launch with wear on this set up or you need to replace the chain really often.
The cheap best set up is a rear hollow QR axle, cut flush with ends of locknuts. QR ‘retains’ wheel, clamp force holds it. Use a good closed cam QR lever like Shimano’s, not a cheap one. It will hold fine and gives you a little slack to tension the chain. This is per Sheldon Brown. It works! Sheldon Brown has lots of neat solutions.
The Best way to set up singlespeeds is with a frame with proper dropouts. You can find old ones cheap or even free!!
Eccentric BBs are a viable solution but require a dedicated frame. You can't put an eccentric on just any bike. Half links work sometimes.
I'd just use a tensioner or even an old bent derailleur.
If you really want a proper SS set up, get the appropriate frame.
Is it possible to do the same with a fixie cog???
if you get a hub with the correct spacing yes
HalfLink Chains ALWAYZ Work For Me...
1/8” BMX ones?
Yes.
🦄
Is that Portland, OR?
No
It went together easily in less than an hour. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Make sure the front fork is forward or the pedals will hit the front tire. Tires are both a little soft so it needs air before I ride it. The rear wheel didn't come with a clamp regular bolts hold it on. The front had the clamp. No scratches out of box. Rims are a little off with a slight wobble. They could have spent more time with the spoke tool fixing the run out. So far out of the box I'm happy with it. I did replace the pedals with a nice aftermarket set. After riding it a bit my A$$ is a bit sore so I ordered another seat. Overall I'm nearly 60 and didn't ride a bike in 30 years. I like my new 29" Schwinn. It will be used for casual rides with my friend.
Spindatt , would you recommend fixed gear with vertical dropout?
@Spindatt and no brakes??!
Recommend? No. Would I try it. Yes. Yes I would.
Spindatt , because i have a cannondale caad 4 r3000, and i believe it has vertical dropouts, its a road bike 🚲 and i want to make it fixed gear
Spindatt, so would this be the same methods i want to do?
Find a 130mm wide fixed gear hub and try to find a ratio that will yield adequate chain tension. Use this to help with that: eehouse.org/fixin/formfmu.php
Sometimes a halflink link will make it happen :)
This, a single half link. I have never had an issue with chain tension with vertical dropouts using half link chains, I go with whatever gear ratio I want and with the half link if the chain doesn’t go on with that ratio then drop down one tooth, if it’s loose go up, a half link and a single tooth difference is all you need for a tight chain
what is a unicorn gear ?
racefaceec90 a gear set up where no chain tensioner is needed but the chain tension is perfect
noice
Dude, put a true singlespeed cog to avoid chain drop ;)
Hahah that’s totally opposed to my attempts at spending 0 dollars haha
Although I may buy one of the wolf tooth ones... if they make a 15t some day
im having these issues right now...I have a singlespeed cog already. But its not set up, the issues are with the nonsinglespeed cog i currently have. Do you think switching cog to a singlespeed one will solve the issue completely ? that way i will not have to get a tensioner .. ... . . . .
Angelo Medina Also, having no tensioner with vertical drop outs means IF you find your magic gear, your chain will get slacker as the chain wears. Causing more problems. Single speeds wear chains fairly fast. Thats why I use inexpensive ones.
There are a few tricks to keeping chain tensioned without the tensioner also shown by sheldonbrown.com. Its a great resource!!
Probably the best (and most$$$) fix is to use a White Industries Eno eccentric hub about $200 + wheelbuild. I got mine used for $40!
These make all your problems go away!
Still, go thru the straight chainline process. It will allow you to pedal as hard as you want without throwing chains. My drivetrain is silent. I only hear the hiss of tires on the ground. I sneak up on wildlife all the time!!
If one could contact the site owner and get all the math problems they used for chain length it wouldn't be hard to stitch together an android app, if you make contact i'll code out the app.
There's another less user friendly site I used to double check the chain length when choosing my unicorn gear www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/chain_length/chainlengthcalc.html they have the equation in there.
relation?
I found this works, until the chain stretches a little bit, then it falls off all the time :(
Turns out others have had reallly good luck with a narrow wide and a proper 3/32 single speed cog from shimano or wolftooth. I’m considering that route for ultimate ridiculousness.
this guy is dustin klein
East coast Canada version
Why do this to yourself?
43:19
I have 52×13 i'm loking for 56×11
Why not just shorten the chain?
One more link would have been too short. This is easily fixed with proper single speed cogs
@@Spindatt Ahh, gotcha.
Get a half link chain and you can shorten
Or..just leave the tensioner on and save yourself the hassle
First
You win the prize
you are too hipster. grab a 50 lb freeride bike from 2006 and huck to flat!?!!!
The lack of racism in this video was very disappointing. Unsubscribed
Your bloody chainwheel is too small. A larger one will create more tension on the chain. Millenials.