The cool thing with the cultures that have faith producing districts is that they scale well. For example the Celts district provides food to grow but also faith to convert that massive group of people in your cities so that you get your beliefs faster.
I agree, and the 2nd tier faith has 5 gold on money quarters. Is it game breaking? no, but I think that there is good synergy with faith producing cultures that don't rule them out o rmake them too low
the greek's EQ is a strictly better research quarter, remember they count as one, so they get all the benefits from infrastructure that affects them as well, so i would go for B
It is also worth noting that science is far more dependent on researcher than other quarter are on their population and therefore and as blackmagic says the district is a straight upgrade and on research quarters and gets agacency with cities, wonders and exploited resources making it very easy to get decent yeilds with them.
The problem with the Greeks is that district costs scale with the number of districts, and the Greek district only gives science at a point in the game where it's arguably least useful - and in a way where the benefits aren't present in the current era and are outscaled in later eras. It's not really worth it to build a district in the Classical era that doesn't yield food, industry, or tons of influence - let alone one with lousy yields like the Greeks'. At least they're better than the Romans though.
You have drastically misjudged the power of many cultures and I think it’s because you’ve overlooked how important the EU is in this era. The classical era generic units are bad so you need your EU to pull alot of weight. The celts EU is a worse swordsman, farmers are inefficient, and you often don’t have large mega cities at this stage due to stability issues with attachment. They should be C tier. The romans struggle to get their EU in any reasonable amount of time and their other bonuses are lack luster they should be weaker. The hoplite has no counter in the era; it hard counters the most scary EUs that are Calvary. The researcher bonus is crazy good as researchers are the most efficient source of science in this era and the ability to research into the next era is super strong. They deserve an A ranking.
Greeks r S tier just bcoz of how strong hoplites r in an era where EU matters the most (since the basic units r so weak this era).U can rall over another civ easily with few stacks of hoplites. Since he plays mostly blitz on many continents map he undermines the importance of war a lot.
@@shahnawazahmad3922 in my experience although the hoplites are good and definitely great against cavalry it’s inferior to the immortals as they have higher strength and are in the same class. The fact that the hunnic hordes are the main cavalry unit of the era and can out preform hoplites by sheer numbers makes hoplites although good but not a-tier. Honestly though it comes to play style, if your not trying to play conquer the world the Greeks are okay. The problem is that when you have arguably the worst overall cultures in the game all in one era it really comes down to a single question; 1. Can you/do you want to wage war Yes -> Huns or Persians No -> anything but the romans and goths that fancy you I feel although this game is fun there’s not enough diverse playstyles . Your either going wide or tall with builders into science and if you aren’t conquering/making vassals or rushing techs your playing against the odds. Honestly food, science, money and influence needs a slight rework; food needs to make more than 1 pop per turn making masonry actually viable and in turn allowing food to be a viable strategy for army growth/building. Science needs a new affinity power, nerfing the ability would just be lazy and make science cultures completely unviable competitively. Alternatively if they got rid of scaling techs based upon how many you have and then just make all population produce science at a 1-1 ratio to what your pop makes for research for gold for x turns (researchers make double science but food, money and industry scale nicely with science still and Babylonians would actually use their ability in the early game). Honestly 99% of this game’s problems is scaling of other resources. I find personally industry to be mainly okay in the late game as you built up enough makers quarters regardless of affinities. However money and influence scales awfully, you make too little to enact most civics late game and money is worthless via the scaling I think all I use is mainly upgrading my armies from the medieval era to early modern gunners because it’s like 2.5k per unit and actually much more pop efficient than paying 4 pop for them.
so The Aksumites great obolisk is great. it scales really well since it gives you faith to spead up converting your religion. and it counts ALL the territories under your religions influence, not just your territories, or the territories of your city like you seem to think, so if you rush holy sites, some other empires will also end up following your religion.
Yeh, I see aksumites as B tier, it's a setup culture for a strong faith game, going aksumites you can end up gaining 120+ gold per obelisk if you can get yourself to be the dominant religion
And even if his estimate of providing roughly as much gold as a market quarter is correct, that is still effectively a 2-for-1 market quarter (when counting the other bonuses of the Obelisk itself).
Yeah imo Aksumites are really underrated. I'm usually churning out like 30 gold per obelisk by the start of the medieval era (granted I play on the largest maps). By endgame they're churning out almost 100 per district and it's a little insane.
I was just coming down to the comments to say this. Definitely think they aren't getting enough credit. They have a base STR of only 1 less than the Swordsman at the same production cost but without needing any iron which for some reason I am never able to get in my borders.
@@taylorsackett2556 it's also notable that they do not suffer a combat penalty from being damaged, so they change the dynamics of the fight and they can be really deadly in extended encounters because you can't really weaken them easily.
I gotta say, your accent/rhythm of speech crack me up so much. "...can buy it with influence on outposts, because it is a HAHRBAH!" xD So fun to listen too, especially on higher speeds. Thanks!
Carthaginians unique district actually counts as 3 districts for commons quarters as well. So you can easily get +15 stability from them. Also because it's a unique harbour, it's actually pretty decent if you pick Dutch later on and place your harbours well. They also do well with Religion since you can buff food with religion fairly easily. It's map dependent, but if you have a heavy island map I'd actually rate them S tier since you can spread your territories and place a lot of unique districts cheaply. Celts are actually pretty decent too - if you get Angkor Wat they are a great follow-up to Egypt to have a well balanced Civ.
I dont mean any offense by this, but I think you slightly misunderstand how the Great Obelisk works or how strong it can actually be. The Great Obelisk grants you money income for EVERY territory that follows your religion, not just your own. That just as an fyi. There is 3 main factors why I would rank the Aksumites differently. 1) The way you gain faith now has been drastically limited to what it was before so your access to faith is A LOT less without any emblematic districts. So in return gives a lot more relative power to districts that grant you additional faith. In this early stage of the game its very unlikely that any other culture will have a way to actually compete with you in faith allowing your religion to spread essentially the entire continent or atleast big parts of it. Just to put this into perspective, whenever I start building my Great Obelisks I already get around 20-25 gold and thats only the starting point. (you have to prepare this in the ancient era by putting down a holy site however) 2) Religious Tenets. I started elaborating this in my previous point, but just the fact that you will have a very influential Religion means that you can choose the Tenets that you want to have, and that advantage alone bumps them up a bit in my opinion. 3) The Shotelai are actually a really great unit against the AIs most favourite militaristic culture, the Huns. The Hunnic hordes simply cant effectively fight the Shotelai because they can't move away from them after firing at them. That, in turn, makes your Shotelai (which are pretty cheap) a great defensive tool. Surely, they don't hold a candle to some other units of this era and will just be blasted. But then again, when I want to play something like the Aksumites I try to make my neighbours my friends during the Ancient Era already so I can chill a bit more during the Classical Era. I wont deny the fact that the other classical cultures have very strong arguments speaking for them and I wouldnt rank the Aksumites higher as Average at best myself, I just felt the culture wasn't given enough credit for what it can actually do well.
Yea Jumbo rates gold generating cultures pretty low because he underestimates the versatility and power of it. I would argue that gold cultures are almost better at war than anyone else because they able to make enough money to upgrade their entire army to the latest tech unlike scientists, they can upgrade existing troops unlike builders who just crank out more units, and even most militarists because they can just splash a little cash to optimize their units and can build larger armies because they have the money to pay for them.
@@Vardanix2468 Gold becomes the most valuable resource briefly once you are able to substitute it for influence for expanding and merging territories and cities. In most of my runs I try to pick a gold generating culture somewhere in the mid game.
@@alexpack6638 Truth be told, gold cultures are a little bit weird in the sense that gold doesn't transfer as well as industry or science does. But after those two I believe gold is the best yield to get and that food is highly overrated. His rating for the Celts for example completely baffled me. In my opinion the Celts are absolute dogshit. The only thing they do is produce food and even that they do in a bad way. You don't want to have farmers producing your food, you need districts to do that for you and have the excess workers sit on everything else but food. While the Nemeton certainly helps with that the Celts Legacy trait is completely useless and doesnt have enough output to free up enough workerslots to actually work important jobs. Oh and their unit is by far the worst. Yes, they are cheap to make and have no restrictions but they have nothing else going for them. If I think about it I dont think they win against any other emblematic unit of this era aside from maybe the Mayan Javelineers if the territory favours the Gaesati.
Science cultures have huge synergies with each other. I have had the most success winning the game (max settings) more quickly and more authoritatively when playing Babylonians followed by the Greeks. You can gauge your progress by your fame ranking ad seeing how many of the AI have reached the next era. I was pretty much getting my pick of cultures after playing the Babs and Greeks
I have a hard time if I don't go Egypt->Persians->Khmer. After that it really doesn't matter as much, but those 3 make for such a strong base that you could honestly not change cultures after that and likely be fine. I tired the Mayans instead of Persians once, and while they are a strong Industry culture, their EU has trouble being able to fire at range in most cases and Egyptians can honestly carry you to Medieval by themselves when it comes to production, making them a bit unnecessary. At that point You get the Khmer and are likely good on both food and Industry the rest of the game. Persians let you get a extra 2 cities without that huge oppressive penalty, in a era where half the map is taken up by indie cities. At that point you got all your yields for days cause you just have more places to get them from.
Loved the video and can't wait for the next one! Although I definitely feel the Mauryans should be a higher A tier or even S tier, I love playing them. The science bonus can really put you ahead, and faith is really important early game. Also their unique unit can be upgraded direct from the Egyptians unique unit which is handy.
Really enjoyed the video and sorry for nitpicking but the Maya UU is much worse than the default archer because they need line of sight like the crossbow men and do not have enough defense to survive properly against swordsmen. It’s actually infuriating how bad they are. Also surprised how low you value faith. The 1st and 2nd tenets are super strong and on Humankind difficulty you need all the help you can get to unlock them fast enough. A makers quarter surrounded by forests and the 1st tenet is very similar to the Maya UD. I like how you praise the Mauryans though. The Stupa and their elephants are amazing, especially if you settle near exploitable science tiles. Independent cities can be bought very quickly and cheap as well as an aesthete culture.
The javelineers are really annoying to use. A lot of the time you have to put them right in the enemy's face, and they're unlikely to kill anything, so most likely they'll get wiped instantly. Easily one of the worst EUs
Achemanid persians are the only classic culture that truly belongs in S teir. Money generation is for army upkeep for expanding, and expansionist stars are now one of the easiest stars to get, especially with the extra influence from satraps
Looking forward to the next tier list. The Umayyads can do a settler rush AND unlock patronage earlier. Patronage is obvious but people sleep on those early settlers. New cities start with every building from era 1 to 3 and districts can be spammed in 1-2 turns. In a lot of cases it’s actually better to raze an old city and use a settler to insta build a new one on the same tile. Only high population cities and cities with a bunch of trade routes are worth keeping as far as I can tell.
For Carthage the greatest benefit of the cothon is actually its ability to provide a ton of stability to a city. Because it counts as a market, farmers and makers quarter, if you stick a commons quarter besides it, you will gain that +5 stability bonus multiplied by 3. Place them strategically and you can get easily 30 or even 45 stability into a city from those commons quarter. This is wonder level good.
Wauw I really notice you full on spam that buy things with population button. No wonder you rank all the bonusses to certain population as bad. For me the greek trait just doubled my science output with those 15 scientists in the classical area (tbf, I did go from harappans).
Rome is a love it or hate it culture... well most hate it but I LOVE them xD I wonder how you rate them? For me the Arch is kind of useless (but actually sneaky impactful if you just want a bit of stars with no fuss or stability hit...) C tier at best Their ability is... special. You canNOT get this anywhere else! No civic, no tennant, no NOTHING gives you the ability to end the game with a 9 slot army! And that makes you FEARED or at least I'd found in the nation-level games that I play. Not saying that just going along in the normal 5, 6 slot army you get at this time can't but it seems whenever I pick Rome I play a peaceful game. A-tier just because it's a unique and impactful ability BUT not altogether special in any way. Plus the 30% discount on upkeep is grand (along with bigger armies which I hear makes things cheaper somehow??) The Praetorians are a unit to FEAR though! Offensively I use them INTO the industrial age they are so good! Downsides they are NOT defenders especially vs. Knights etc their puny 3x defense will get them killed easily. But OFFENSIVELY they get back attack no matter where they attack from, strategic whatever (honestly I have no idea what this is but it always gives me +2 :D), bonuses up the wazoo easily turning that 30 to 40 or even close to 50 (49 is my max)! But granted it does come in VERY late in the era. S-class for such a HIGHLY utilized unit! Overall they are a HIGH A for me.
The Problem is that the Persians also get a unique bonus that is impossible to get in any way, and I'd say is even more impactful. +2 City cap is no joke whatsoever. 1 extra Unit slot per army means basically nothing when you have the reinforcement tech from the prior era, and can put 3-4 armies in the same battle. On top of that their ED is just better, and their EU is not only sooner but of similar power level, and uses a easier to get Resource, while countering those terrifying mounted units, including those stupid broken Elephants. Like why are Elephants so strong!?
@@Pizza7478 their ED is... I'm not touching their ED thank you very much xD I don't want to catch something 😜. Lol anyway 'district' is a civ term :p 'quarter' is used in Humankind :). Anyway you can easily go 2 over cap. Sure you get penalized but by classical era your cities should make 15 or more influence plus 6 or more influence per territory. Say you have 4 cities with 3 territories each that's 119 per turn entering the classical era. Drop a few arches down, go on a conquest and you'll not even notice going 2 over. Finally, when it comes to war, anything you can do, Rome can do better. You can reinforce at 5 or 6 per army? Well Rome can do it at one more unit per army and it's cheaper! Yes, the arch may be situational but when it goes, 10 influence per and 6 stability PER TERRITORY is huge. Even when it doesn't go off all it costs is the industry and it's an influence bearing garrison. It's not great especially since regular garrisons gain that ability too :/ but I'm not gonna complain about it. I just picked Britain and they can only build they're EQ in Vassalized civilizations.. wtf. Oh well, their legacy trait (for an expansionist culture) is incredible and red coats are like top 5 units. Still, that mechanic is stupid. Huns and Mongols don't get an emblematic quarter, if you don't have water you can't use the Siamese, or any of the harbor EQs, a bad EQ isn't the end of the world.
I think if they change the Goths (maybe by reworking religion), I think Classical is actually relatively balanced. I'm not sure if I agree with Greeks being so low thou. They may be in an awkward timing for a science culture and their bonuses may not scale insanely, but I find them pretty good just for the Hoplites. I don't agree with Aksumites being low too, but I do agree with them being a bit flavorless. I think most cultures could be fine as A and B tier and even S tier ones aren't that crazy as well (compared to later era ones). Romans would be C for me, but they aren't weak per se. If you picked Babylon early, Romans can be super deadly and perform just like an A tier culture. They just need some setup to be effective. The EQ is pretty underwhelming. Maybe it should give more bonuses I think (maybe when victorious, bring money and population as spoil as well which is flavorful IMO).
My favorite part about the Huns is that you can even use them in the late game thanks to the fact they can run away after shooting so their usefully throughout the game.I have 40 of them in the industrial era on humankind and 5 of them can kill one unit per turn because they do a minimum of 5-25 damage and after you use them you can just run them away and even if the enemy kills them you always get about 3 per battle so they are insane and if you spawn next to someone always pick the huns.
I don't know if I'd agree with the Persians being "unfocused". They get +2 city cap, and their district provides bonus influence, which is used for either founding new cities or assimilating city states. The ability also grants bonus stability, which makes it easier to capture and hold cities using the powerful Immortal unit. Seems to me Persians are pretty focused around building an expansive empire with lots of cities.
Great video again Jumbo but I have to say that 2 of these videos in I am getting a real strong impression that you are DRASTICALLY underrating the value of money in the early game. Money is *THE* best yield to have an excess of in the early game because you can turn it into anything you want (well besides science but even to that regard you can buy science-producing districts and infrastructure.) You downplayed the Nubians in the first vid and now the Aksumites in this one. Money is incredibly powerful in the early game. No matter how much production you have you're not spitting out an entire 4-stack in 1 turn during the ancient or classical era. . You can do it pretty easily with a lot of money. The problem with money is that it doesn't scale or rather the scaling is broken because everything is obscenely expensive in the late game. But these aren't late game cultures, they're early game cultures and money is king in the early game. You also vastly underrated the Great Obelisk, again you aren't taking scaling into account. If you have a strong religion, each Obelisk can easily generate 20-30+ gold per turn and you can put one in every territory. You certainly aren't going to be building a market quarter that can do that this early in the game. You're comparing a Classical Era EU to yields you can get from standard districts late game, that's not a fair comparison. You should really give the economic civs another play but don't do the "I'm only going to play merchant civs thing. That is not how you use them. Reroll your map a few times to get a good Nubia start with a decent amount of resources, build up your religion, transition to Askumites, and then roll it into a Builder civ or Science civ - or take the Ghanians to stretch it even further before transitioning. Switch away from Merchant civs by the Early Modern era, though. That is the point where buying things falls off super hard. By then it won't matter though because you will have used your money up to that point to buy such powerful infrastructure that you don't need to buy things anymore. EDIT: I will add that even what I just said above is sub-optimal. I wouldn't play Merchants 3 straight eras even early game but I do try to work either the Nubians, Aksumites, or Ghanians into every start and it has worked very, very well for me.
Actually there are no straight commerce cultures in industrial era and in the last era. In industrial you have 0 money cultures but some of the other cultures have money districts.
Hi, great video once more (although I don't agree on everything). That being said, I believe this tier list is flawed (for this era) due to the fact that (and this is a personnal opinion) you criticaly undervalued the emblematic units of this era. Here is my reasoning: 1- The Huns, the AI likes them, and they are a real danger, the higher the difficulty, the worst it gets. 2- No upgrades, you are still working with archers and (more importantly) spearmen, once again the huns are a thing. 3- EU are proably your main way to gain militarist star, but that's a small consideration, you can do it with anything against independant people. 4- This isn't constant, but I find myself at war in this era quite often, so once again, EU are your best chance. If you put more consideration in EU, then things change, what's the cost? What are the technological and strategic resources requirements? How do they fare vs the Huns, can you handle the upkeep etc... So yeah, I believe the classical era is where EU are the most important, and should weight more when creating a tier list for it.
I haven't played the Huns yet, and I wish you had gone into a little more detail with how they work, specifically the Ordu, which is one of the most functionally unique items in the game. 1.) Can Ordu be upgraded to cities like regular outposts? 2.) What happens to any outposts that you already have on the map? Are they also automatically converted to Ordus? If so, are they also automatically detached from any city that they had previously been attached to? 3.) What happens to Ordu after you move onto the medieval era? Do the Ordus stay Ordus? Or do they convert back to regular outposts and are able to be attached to cities again? If not, then what do you do with Ordus as the game goes on? Do you have to just upgrade them all to cities?
The Ordus are your outposts. All existing outposts become them, and all future ones will be them too so long as you’re the Huns. Their unique feature is they can’t be attached or upgraded. Essentially a nerf compared to normal outposts, but you can always buy your Hunnic hordes from within them with influence, providing you have 4 population in the Ordu.
I would like to see a synergy list as well. What culture flows well into another culture? Probably more Era 2 to Era 3 or Era 3 to Era 4, as it feels like Era 1 and Era 2 are all about building a foundation so you will have best picks for that.
Carthage buyout applies to influence and population as well as gold. Edit to add: the Roman arch gains 5 inf and 10 stab, making the total 8 and 13, and doesn't check if it's present in the taken city. IOW, conquering or assimilating one city makes ALL arches provide lots of stability and influence.
You miss the fact that since they re-balanced the faith output, faith producing districts are a lot more important, so the Aksumite with the market quarter scaling with faith is just ridiculous
Wholeheartedly agree about Persians. Love the extra city cap and the Immortals. And, they are available more often than not. I don’t think I’ve had the option to pick the Mayans yet. The Gaesati have given me excellent service. No iron required but especially because they fight at full strength when wounded. I’ve also had decent results with Greeks and even the Goths. Rome is the one I don’t get. Not sure you’d ever get to use their unit before the era was over.
I mentioned in my own reply that I think it's money he's undervaluing, not necessarily religion. He's just not making the connection that with a strong religion you can be pulling in 20-30 gold per turn PER Obelisk but even if he were I think he'd still underrate them because he just underrates gold as a whole in the early game. I think it's because (to my knowledge) he's only ever played cultures like Nubia and Aksumites in his "I'm going to play nothing but Merchant civs" style games and you can't approach gold like that. Buyout price scaling is utterly broken and insane in late game. You play merchant civs early to buy a strong industrial base, then transition to something else.
What? TIL a lot of people apparently don't understand how to use excess gold properly in Humankind. Gold is literally the LEAST map-dependent yield there is. Some merchant civs are very map dependent (Nubia) but the resource itself is not in any way whatsoever map dependent. Actually, it gets better the worse the map is. Do your lands have poor food production? Buy granaries and farmer's quarters everywhere. Do your lands have poor hammer production? Buy maker's quarters - or just say screw production and buy whatever you need. No tiles that give science to start building a science sector? Use gold to spam 3 adjacent research quarters and have good yields anyway. Get declared on but didn't have a standing army in place yet? Use your gold to buy an army.
I'm do think the Greeks are stronger than you give credit for. For that area, the science gain you can get is high. Plus their unique district can be placed next to anything to get science, as it's +2 per adjacent district. So if you still need food, but would like some science also you can mix it up for example. Myself I'd put them in B tier.
Currently doing a multiplayer game and I was late to the classic era, I was really struggling to pick when only a few were left and my favourite were gone. That was the day I discovered the cothon. BIG FOOD, BIG INDUSTRY.
First here ooh do you plan on doing a stellaris game?btw I think you should do a industrial cultures only with the coruscant challenge to make it that much Harder (btw coruscant challenge is where you have a building on every tile in the world) so he must fight ai while building before the game ends and in order to win there cant be any ai alive so you can fill all tiles have fun and a good day
How about creating tier lists for techs? Like which are seem to be more powerfull and giving more etc I think there are some techs like this changing a lot, especially microbiology.
when tiering the spanish dont forget about their insane interaction with the angor wat, giing your districts 1 food per population, something not found until much later eras
to be honest building districts are more important to produces resources. infrastructure: necessary are like animal barn or granary and walls, schools and watchtowers to keep an eye on your borders
While I generally agree with your ranking, I would personally put Persians higher than Maya for the following reasons. In my experience, when I play on normal size world or anything bigger, I absolutely NEED the extra 2 city cap to manage. If you select the new world as well, that is even a bigger need. Also, since I usually select Egyptian in ancient era and Khemrs in the next era, I get so much industry that selecting Maya in classic era (or Mughals in the era after Khemrs) becomes redundant and not very useful anymore. In several hundred hours that I have played and many playthroughs, I have selected Mayans 3-4 times and half of those times I regretted it. There were only couple of times that I did not have too much space for expansion and I was also not conquering any other cities that Maya actually worked.
I have come to the same conclusion, the +2 cities is just better than anything else on offer. With a good unit and decent influence from the building I chose them every time I can. Unless you play with some setting where you can't use the extra cities of course.
You are severely under ranking the Greek EQ. It is an amazing research quarter for it's era and probably the best research quarter in the first 4 eras. It also gives a bit of influence at the start of the game when you need it most. Greeks are easily A tier just on their research quarter and for being a science culture and are definitely better than Carthage IMO.
And since their building also counts as a research quarter, it gets all the same bonuses that research quarters get, so they scale more than just by era.
I mainly transition into Aksumite for classical era and i wouldn't consider them that weak. yeah, industry is always king compared to other ressources and their unique unit isn't that great especially since its neither a mounted nor a ranged one (ranged unique unit in classical when there is no upgrade to archer in this era is kinda broken but that's a more global issue). Regarding the obelisk, being able to generate fate this early can be the difference between your religion spreading or being removed from existence. Its scaling is probably garbage on smaller maps because there would be less territories but it scales really well in larger world and easily yield more than 100 gold in later stages of the game, something that can't really be said for a lot of districts.
I think you greatly underestimate the power of Goths. Gothic cavalry is one of the strongest units during era 2, have decent stats and combat bonuses, literally wreaking any opposing forces. On top of that, Gothic cavalry has half the production cost of a regular cavalry, which is 82 vs 164 on normal speed. Its a HUGE difference and you can make 2-3 of them in a single turn! Their emblematic district boosts religion and can help you get religious leadership, but more to that - it has a small but noticable bonus to influence. And their militarist ability is amazing - your gothic cavalry cant attack armies under walls, but your militia can! With Goths you can quickly overrun your opponents and receive militarist stars in no time. And finally, their Nimble pillage ability really helps to build ransack-economy, you simply ransack quicker and gain more out of it! Remember, you get decent resources from ransacking trade routes and pillaging artisan quarters!
I don't see why the Persian's district not synergizing with the Persians is a problem since you are looking to synergize with what exactly you as a player has created so far in the game. If that matches the mixed traits then the synergy is there.
IF it matches, yes. As I say at the start of the tier list, I’m more interested in the culture itself rather than hypothetical synergies with other cultures that you may or may not have access to
One thing I wished they did was divide 4x into turn based and real time. I can play turn based while cooking dinner. I like the real time, but I wonder the cross over.
i think huns are not so good... if player see, that you a huns, spearmans and a several forts and you cannot do anything... and to collect new units is too difficult(
I think that the +2 city cap for the persians are the most overrated buff in the game. Even during the game jumbo was playing in the backgroud you can realize that being at 3/4 city means that the only thing that the legacy was providing is +10 influence per turn, and the later in the game this buff become pretty useless cuz influence loss per city over cap does not scale. And you can always pick 'Small Council' (+1 city cap) in th leadership civic to dampen things.
Persian LT is situational but in the right situation, it is EXTREMELY strong. It all depends on how much room you have to spread out. If you only have enough space for 3 or 4 cities then they're pretty bad. If you're on a larger map or just got lucky and you have the room to put down 5, 6, or even more good cities then it becomes absolutely S-tier and one of the best LTs in the entire game. Having 5 or 6 cities when other civs are capped at 3 or 4 is super powerful, you almost can't overstate how much of an advantage it gives you.
Yes, it's fairly easy to be 2 cities over the cap. Once you switch to spending gold to merge territories and cities, you can get 3-4 cities over the cap without really putting yourself behind. I would rate Persia B - C tier. Commons Quarters are cheap and they generate influence as well if you pick the right civics. +10 stability per outpost/city is pretty easy to replicate; it's basically 2/3rds of an average commons quarter per city which isn't much.
Really dissapointed how Roman's are depicted in this game. They were one of the most successful and influential cultures in history. I have zero desire to pick them out of all the other available cultures.
I feel that because you can go over cap just by paying stars, when i get to the ce no matter what civ im playing i can have 13, 14 cities and still have a strong influence game. I just don't see why +2 city cap is such a strong trait. I will say i have yet to play these guys so i won't judge either way yet, but... Id rather have +5 per arch... But again i'll just sit quietly in the corner while the adults figure this one out...
1 over City cap isn't a big deal, being 10 Influence per turn. That's basically the Main Plaza and that's it. When you get 2 over cap however, it gets PAINFUL. I think it's 120 Influence per turn, which is 2 fully developed cities worth until the late Medieval to Early Modern.. +2 City cap means that you can have the full influence gain from those two cities, meaning you can keep expanding faster, or afford all the really good civics that are unlocking during these periods faster, ETC. It's basically a net difference of at least 240-360 influence per turn, which is HUGE until the Industrial.
@@Pizza7478 if you play a lot of expansion cultures like I have or an asthete or two than 120 is not a big hit by the medieval era, last night I went Assyrian Roman Teuton and was making 1200 influence per turn two over cap. 3 over cap (a 300 hit if I'm not mistaken) is still viable in that situation, it's just 200 more. After that it hits 1000 and it's not really viable until late game... But CE cultures are extra strong so it may be possible late game.
OMG you dont like Goths. You omitted their biggest strength - cavalry. Just look at how much hammers and pop it costs comparing to other era units. Now it is B tier. Then add faith for claiming land and culture and how easy military stars are. Still be tier but no way worse than Celts
Greeks are by far the best culture in this era. The ability to research the next Eta currently just breaks the game. Their unit is top tier and their district is really good as well.
@jumbopixel is LITERALLY live streaming and has picked the Greeks because he needs the bonus they give!!!! C tier..? I THINK NOT young Kiwi (evil laugh) MWAH HA HA HA HA HA
*shouts in Greek*
The cool thing with the cultures that have faith producing districts is that they scale well. For example the Celts district provides food to grow but also faith to convert that massive group of people in your cities so that you get your beliefs faster.
I agree, and the 2nd tier faith has 5 gold on money quarters. Is it game breaking? no, but I think that there is good synergy with faith producing cultures that don't rule them out o rmake them too low
@@daivion8493 Or 5 science on research quarters. Or you can stuck civic reduction cost with ease.
It explodes even more with hanging garden wonder
the greek's EQ is a strictly better research quarter, remember they count as one, so they get all the benefits from infrastructure that affects them as well, so i would go for B
It is also worth noting that science is far more dependent on researcher than other quarter are on their population and therefore and as blackmagic says the district is a straight upgrade and on research quarters and gets agacency with cities, wonders and exploited resources making it very easy to get decent yeilds with them.
The problem with the Greeks is that district costs scale with the number of districts, and the Greek district only gives science at a point in the game where it's arguably least useful - and in a way where the benefits aren't present in the current era and are outscaled in later eras.
It's not really worth it to build a district in the Classical era that doesn't yield food, industry, or tons of influence - let alone one with lousy yields like the Greeks'.
At least they're better than the Romans though.
You have drastically misjudged the power of many cultures and I think it’s because you’ve overlooked how important the EU is in this era. The classical era generic units are bad so you need your EU to pull alot of weight.
The celts EU is a worse swordsman, farmers are inefficient, and you often don’t have large mega cities at this stage due to stability issues with attachment. They should be C tier.
The romans struggle to get their EU in any reasonable amount of time and their other bonuses are lack luster they should be weaker.
The hoplite has no counter in the era; it hard counters the most scary EUs that are Calvary. The researcher bonus is crazy good as researchers are the most efficient source of science in this era and the ability to research into the next era is super strong. They deserve an A ranking.
Greeks r S tier just bcoz of how strong hoplites r in an era where EU matters the most (since the basic units r so weak this era).U can rall over another civ easily with few stacks of hoplites. Since he plays mostly blitz on many continents map he undermines the importance of war a lot.
@@shahnawazahmad3922 in my experience although the hoplites are good and definitely great against cavalry it’s inferior to the immortals as they have higher strength and are in the same class. The fact that the hunnic hordes are the main cavalry unit of the era and can out preform hoplites by sheer numbers makes hoplites although good but not a-tier. Honestly though it comes to play style, if your not trying to play conquer the world the Greeks are okay. The problem is that when you have arguably the worst overall cultures in the game all in one era it really comes down to a single question;
1. Can you/do you want to wage war
Yes -> Huns or Persians
No -> anything but the romans and goths that fancy you
I feel although this game is fun there’s not enough diverse playstyles . Your either going wide or tall with builders into science and if you aren’t conquering/making vassals or rushing techs your playing against the odds.
Honestly food, science, money and influence needs a slight rework; food needs to make more than 1 pop per turn making masonry actually viable and in turn allowing food to be a viable strategy for army growth/building. Science needs a new affinity power, nerfing the ability would just be lazy and make science cultures completely unviable competitively. Alternatively if they got rid of scaling techs based upon how many you have and then just make all population produce science at a 1-1 ratio to what your pop makes for research for gold for x turns (researchers make double science but food, money and industry scale nicely with science still and Babylonians would actually use their ability in the early game). Honestly 99% of this game’s problems is scaling of other resources. I find personally industry to be mainly okay in the late game as you built up enough makers quarters regardless of affinities. However money and influence scales awfully, you make too little to enact most civics late game and money is worthless via the scaling I think all I use is mainly upgrading my armies from the medieval era to early modern gunners because it’s like 2.5k per unit and actually much more pop efficient than paying 4 pop for them.
@@2hot34 Hoplites r top tier units. They get 3-4 more combat strength if u stack them and keep them together
so The Aksumites great obolisk is great. it scales really well since it gives you faith to spead up converting your religion. and it counts ALL the territories under your religions influence, not just your territories, or the territories of your city like you seem to think, so if you rush holy sites, some other empires will also end up following your religion.
Yeh, I see aksumites as B tier, it's a setup culture for a strong faith game, going aksumites you can end up gaining 120+ gold per obelisk if you can get yourself to be the dominant religion
And even if his estimate of providing roughly as much gold as a market quarter is correct, that is still effectively a 2-for-1 market quarter (when counting the other bonuses of the Obelisk itself).
Yeah imo Aksumites are really underrated. I'm usually churning out like 30 gold per obelisk by the start of the medieval era (granted I play on the largest maps). By endgame they're churning out almost 100 per district and it's a little insane.
Remember, gaesati need no resources. Gaesati zerg rush is real (specially if you come from Harappans and have population to spare).
I was just coming down to the comments to say this. Definitely think they aren't getting enough credit. They have a base STR of only 1 less than the Swordsman at the same production cost but without needing any iron which for some reason I am never able to get in my borders.
@@taylorsackett2556 it's also notable that they do not suffer a combat penalty from being damaged, so they change the dynamics of the fight and they can be really deadly in extended encounters because you can't really weaken them easily.
@@MyCloudGaming Preach
I gotta say, your accent/rhythm of speech crack me up so much. "...can buy it with influence on outposts, because it is a HAHRBAH!" xD So fun to listen too, especially on higher speeds. Thanks!
Carthaginians unique district actually counts as 3 districts for commons quarters as well. So you can easily get +15 stability from them. Also because it's a unique harbour, it's actually pretty decent if you pick Dutch later on and place your harbours well. They also do well with Religion since you can buff food with religion fairly easily. It's map dependent, but if you have a heavy island map I'd actually rate them S tier since you can spread your territories and place a lot of unique districts cheaply.
Celts are actually pretty decent too - if you get Angkor Wat they are a great follow-up to Egypt to have a well balanced Civ.
S Tier usually means it's good in ALL situations. They can be absolutely insane, but only situationally, so that's why it's fair to keep them A Tier
I dont mean any offense by this, but I think you slightly misunderstand how the Great Obelisk works or how strong it can actually be. The Great Obelisk grants you money income for EVERY territory that follows your religion, not just your own. That just as an fyi.
There is 3 main factors why I would rank the Aksumites differently.
1) The way you gain faith now has been drastically limited to what it was before so your access to faith is A LOT less without any emblematic districts. So in return gives a lot more relative power to districts that grant you additional faith. In this early stage of the game its very unlikely that any other culture will have a way to actually compete with you in faith allowing your religion to spread essentially the entire continent or atleast big parts of it. Just to put this into perspective, whenever I start building my Great Obelisks I already get around 20-25 gold and thats only the starting point. (you have to prepare this in the ancient era by putting down a holy site however)
2) Religious Tenets. I started elaborating this in my previous point, but just the fact that you will have a very influential Religion means that you can choose the Tenets that you want to have, and that advantage alone bumps them up a bit in my opinion.
3) The Shotelai are actually a really great unit against the AIs most favourite militaristic culture, the Huns. The Hunnic hordes simply cant effectively fight the Shotelai because they can't move away from them after firing at them. That, in turn, makes your Shotelai (which are pretty cheap) a great defensive tool. Surely, they don't hold a candle to some other units of this era and will just be blasted. But then again, when I want to play something like the Aksumites I try to make my neighbours my friends during the Ancient Era already so I can chill a bit more during the Classical Era.
I wont deny the fact that the other classical cultures have very strong arguments speaking for them and I wouldnt rank the Aksumites higher as Average at best myself, I just felt the culture wasn't given enough credit for what it can actually do well.
Yea Jumbo rates gold generating cultures pretty low because he underestimates the versatility and power of it. I would argue that gold cultures are almost better at war than anyone else because they able to make enough money to upgrade their entire army to the latest tech unlike scientists, they can upgrade existing troops unlike builders who just crank out more units, and even most militarists because they can just splash a little cash to optimize their units and can build larger armies because they have the money to pay for them.
@@alexpack6638 I feel like gold cultures are in a bit of an awkward spot now since prices are really broken
@@Vardanix2468 Gold becomes the most valuable resource briefly once you are able to substitute it for influence for expanding and merging territories and cities. In most of my runs I try to pick a gold generating culture somewhere in the mid game.
@@alexpack6638 Truth be told, gold cultures are a little bit weird in the sense that gold doesn't transfer as well as industry or science does. But after those two I believe gold is the best yield to get and that food is highly overrated. His rating for the Celts for example completely baffled me. In my opinion the Celts are absolute dogshit. The only thing they do is produce food and even that they do in a bad way. You don't want to have farmers producing your food, you need districts to do that for you and have the excess workers sit on everything else but food. While the Nemeton certainly helps with that the Celts Legacy trait is completely useless and doesnt have enough output to free up enough workerslots to actually work important jobs. Oh and their unit is by far the worst. Yes, they are cheap to make and have no restrictions but they have nothing else going for them. If I think about it I dont think they win against any other emblematic unit of this era aside from maybe the Mayan Javelineers if the territory favours the Gaesati.
@@AStaake1992 The Celt's unit's combat strength doesn't go down the lower their health is, which is definitely something going for them.
Science cultures have huge synergies with each other. I have had the most success winning the game (max settings) more quickly and more authoritatively when playing Babylonians followed by the Greeks. You can gauge your progress by your fame ranking ad seeing how many of the AI have reached the next era. I was pretty much getting my pick of cultures after playing the Babs and Greeks
These are the best tier videos for Humankind! Keep em coming. Excited to hear your take on the Aztecs and then Siam.
Just finished watching the last episode! Excited for this one
Persians are one of my favorites. Those +2 cites, amazing.
I have a hard time if I don't go Egypt->Persians->Khmer. After that it really doesn't matter as much, but those 3 make for such a strong base that you could honestly not change cultures after that and likely be fine. I tired the Mayans instead of Persians once, and while they are a strong Industry culture, their EU has trouble being able to fire at range in most cases and Egyptians can honestly carry you to Medieval by themselves when it comes to production, making them a bit unnecessary. At that point You get the Khmer and are likely good on both food and Industry the rest of the game. Persians let you get a extra 2 cities without that huge oppressive penalty, in a era where half the map is taken up by indie cities. At that point you got all your yields for days cause you just have more places to get them from.
I wish they implement at some point a way to choose cultures randomly. I like the idea of having to play and win with whatever culture you get.
I guess you could just roll a dice
Loved the video and can't wait for the next one! Although I definitely feel the Mauryans should be a higher A tier or even S tier, I love playing them. The science bonus can really put you ahead, and faith is really important early game. Also their unique unit can be upgraded direct from the Egyptians unique unit which is handy.
Really enjoyed the video and sorry for nitpicking but the Maya UU is much worse than the default archer because they need line of sight like the crossbow men and do not have enough defense to survive properly against swordsmen. It’s actually infuriating how bad they are. Also surprised how low you value faith. The 1st and 2nd tenets are super strong and on Humankind difficulty you need all the help you can get to unlock them fast enough. A makers quarter surrounded by forests and the 1st tenet is very similar to the Maya UD.
I like how you praise the Mauryans though. The Stupa and their elephants are amazing, especially if you settle near exploitable science tiles. Independent cities can be bought very quickly and cheap as well as an aesthete culture.
The javelineers are really annoying to use. A lot of the time you have to put them right in the enemy's face, and they're unlikely to kill anything, so most likely they'll get wiped instantly. Easily one of the worst EUs
keep making these, I love it.
I have found no need to upgrade the praetorian guard through the medieval age, and they are significantly cheaper than medieval units.
Achemanid persians are the only classic culture that truly belongs in S teir. Money generation is for army upkeep for expanding, and expansionist stars are now one of the easiest stars to get, especially with the extra influence from satraps
Looking forward to the next tier list. The Umayyads can do a settler rush AND unlock patronage earlier. Patronage is obvious but people sleep on those early settlers. New cities start with every building from era 1 to 3 and districts can be spammed in 1-2 turns. In a lot of cases it’s actually better to raze an old city and use a settler to insta build a new one on the same tile. Only high population cities and cities with a bunch of trade routes are worth keeping as far as I can tell.
I have play a lot of this game and am pleased that others are coming to similar conclusions, means I am not far off the mark.
For Carthage the greatest benefit of the cothon is actually its ability to provide a ton of stability to a city. Because it counts as a market, farmers and makers quarter, if you stick a commons quarter besides it, you will gain that +5 stability bonus multiplied by 3. Place them strategically and you can get easily 30 or even 45 stability into a city from those commons quarter. This is wonder level good.
Wauw I really notice you full on spam that buy things with population button. No wonder you rank all the bonusses to certain population as bad. For me the greek trait just doubled my science output with those 15 scientists in the classical area (tbf, I did go from harappans).
Rome is a love it or hate it culture... well most hate it but I LOVE them xD I wonder how you rate them?
For me the Arch is kind of useless (but actually sneaky impactful if you just want a bit of stars with no fuss or stability hit...) C tier at best
Their ability is... special. You canNOT get this anywhere else! No civic, no tennant, no NOTHING gives you the ability to end the game with a 9 slot army! And that makes you FEARED or at least I'd found in the nation-level games that I play. Not saying that just going along in the normal 5, 6 slot army you get at this time can't but it seems whenever I pick Rome I play a peaceful game. A-tier just because it's a unique and impactful ability BUT not altogether special in any way. Plus the 30% discount on upkeep is grand (along with bigger armies which I hear makes things cheaper somehow??)
The Praetorians are a unit to FEAR though! Offensively I use them INTO the industrial age they are so good! Downsides they are NOT defenders especially vs. Knights etc their puny 3x defense will get them killed easily. But OFFENSIVELY they get back attack no matter where they attack from, strategic whatever (honestly I have no idea what this is but it always gives me +2 :D), bonuses up the wazoo easily turning that 30 to 40 or even close to 50 (49 is my max)! But granted it does come in VERY late in the era. S-class for such a HIGHLY utilized unit!
Overall they are a HIGH A for me.
The Problem is that the Persians also get a unique bonus that is impossible to get in any way, and I'd say is even more impactful. +2 City cap is no joke whatsoever. 1 extra Unit slot per army means basically nothing when you have the reinforcement tech from the prior era, and can put 3-4 armies in the same battle. On top of that their ED is just better, and their EU is not only sooner but of similar power level, and uses a easier to get Resource, while countering those terrifying mounted units, including those stupid broken Elephants. Like why are Elephants so strong!?
@@Pizza7478 their ED is... I'm not touching their ED thank you very much xD I don't want to catch something 😜. Lol anyway 'district' is a civ term :p 'quarter' is used in Humankind :).
Anyway you can easily go 2 over cap. Sure you get penalized but by classical era your cities should make 15 or more influence plus 6 or more influence per territory. Say you have 4 cities with 3 territories each that's 119 per turn entering the classical era. Drop a few arches down, go on a conquest and you'll not even notice going 2 over.
Finally, when it comes to war, anything you can do, Rome can do better. You can reinforce at 5 or 6 per army? Well Rome can do it at one more unit per army and it's cheaper!
Yes, the arch may be situational but when it goes, 10 influence per and 6 stability PER TERRITORY is huge. Even when it doesn't go off all it costs is the industry and it's an influence bearing garrison. It's not great especially since regular garrisons gain that ability too :/ but I'm not gonna complain about it.
I just picked Britain and they can only build they're EQ in Vassalized civilizations.. wtf. Oh well, their legacy trait (for an expansionist culture) is incredible and red coats are like top 5 units. Still, that mechanic is stupid. Huns and Mongols don't get an emblematic quarter, if you don't have water you can't use the Siamese, or any of the harbor EQs, a bad EQ isn't the end of the world.
I think if they change the Goths (maybe by reworking religion), I think Classical is actually relatively balanced.
I'm not sure if I agree with Greeks being so low thou. They may be in an awkward timing for a science culture and their bonuses may not scale insanely, but I find them pretty good just for the Hoplites. I don't agree with Aksumites being low too, but I do agree with them being a bit flavorless. I think most cultures could be fine as A and B tier and even S tier ones aren't that crazy as well (compared to later era ones).
Romans would be C for me, but they aren't weak per se. If you picked Babylon early, Romans can be super deadly and perform just like an A tier culture. They just need some setup to be effective. The EQ is pretty underwhelming. Maybe it should give more bonuses I think (maybe when victorious, bring money and population as spoil as well which is flavorful IMO).
My favorite part about the Huns is that you can even use them in the late game thanks to the fact they can run away after shooting so their usefully throughout the game.I have 40 of them in the industrial era on humankind and 5 of them can kill one unit per turn because they do a minimum of 5-25 damage and after you use them you can just run them away and even if the enemy kills them you always get about 3 per battle so they are insane and if you spawn next to someone always pick the huns.
Incredibly well done. Thanks old sport.
I see the unsubscribed people get a fail rating (0:27). Does that make subscribers s tier?😂
I don't know if I'd agree with the Persians being "unfocused". They get +2 city cap, and their district provides bonus influence, which is used for either founding new cities or assimilating city states. The ability also grants bonus stability, which makes it easier to capture and hold cities using the powerful Immortal unit. Seems to me Persians are pretty focused around building an expansive empire with lots of cities.
Great video again Jumbo but I have to say that 2 of these videos in I am getting a real strong impression that you are DRASTICALLY underrating the value of money in the early game. Money is *THE* best yield to have an excess of in the early game because you can turn it into anything you want (well besides science but even to that regard you can buy science-producing districts and infrastructure.) You downplayed the Nubians in the first vid and now the Aksumites in this one. Money is incredibly powerful in the early game. No matter how much production you have you're not spitting out an entire 4-stack in 1 turn during the ancient or classical era. . You can do it pretty easily with a lot of money. The problem with money is that it doesn't scale or rather the scaling is broken because everything is obscenely expensive in the late game. But these aren't late game cultures, they're early game cultures and money is king in the early game.
You also vastly underrated the Great Obelisk, again you aren't taking scaling into account. If you have a strong religion, each Obelisk can easily generate 20-30+ gold per turn and you can put one in every territory. You certainly aren't going to be building a market quarter that can do that this early in the game. You're comparing a Classical Era EU to yields you can get from standard districts late game, that's not a fair comparison.
You should really give the economic civs another play but don't do the "I'm only going to play merchant civs thing. That is not how you use them. Reroll your map a few times to get a good Nubia start with a decent amount of resources, build up your religion, transition to Askumites, and then roll it into a Builder civ or Science civ - or take the Ghanians to stretch it even further before transitioning. Switch away from Merchant civs by the Early Modern era, though. That is the point where buying things falls off super hard. By then it won't matter though because you will have used your money up to that point to buy such powerful infrastructure that you don't need to buy things anymore.
EDIT: I will add that even what I just said above is sub-optimal. I wouldn't play Merchants 3 straight eras even early game but I do try to work either the Nubians, Aksumites, or Ghanians into every start and it has worked very, very well for me.
Actually there are no straight commerce cultures in industrial era and in the last era. In industrial you have 0 money cultures but some of the other cultures have money districts.
Hi, great video once more (although I don't agree on everything).
That being said, I believe this tier list is flawed (for this era) due to the fact that (and this is a personnal opinion) you criticaly undervalued the emblematic units of this era.
Here is my reasoning:
1- The Huns, the AI likes them, and they are a real danger, the higher the difficulty, the worst it gets.
2- No upgrades, you are still working with archers and (more importantly) spearmen, once again the huns are a thing.
3- EU are proably your main way to gain militarist star, but that's a small consideration, you can do it with anything against independant people.
4- This isn't constant, but I find myself at war in this era quite often, so once again, EU are your best chance.
If you put more consideration in EU, then things change, what's the cost? What are the technological and strategic resources requirements? How do they fare vs the Huns, can you handle the upkeep etc...
So yeah, I believe the classical era is where EU are the most important, and should weight more when creating a tier list for it.
I haven't played the Huns yet, and I wish you had gone into a little more detail with how they work, specifically the Ordu, which is one of the most functionally unique items in the game.
1.) Can Ordu be upgraded to cities like regular outposts?
2.) What happens to any outposts that you already have on the map? Are they also automatically converted to Ordus? If so, are they also automatically detached from any city that they had previously been attached to?
3.) What happens to Ordu after you move onto the medieval era? Do the Ordus stay Ordus? Or do they convert back to regular outposts and are able to be attached to cities again? If not, then what do you do with Ordus as the game goes on? Do you have to just upgrade them all to cities?
The Ordus are your outposts. All existing outposts become them, and all future ones will be them too so long as you’re the Huns.
Their unique feature is they can’t be attached or upgraded. Essentially a nerf compared to normal outposts, but you can always buy your Hunnic hordes from within them with influence, providing you have 4 population in the Ordu.
I would like to see a synergy list as well. What culture flows well into another culture? Probably more Era 2 to Era 3 or Era 3 to Era 4, as it feels like Era 1 and Era 2 are all about building a foundation so you will have best picks for that.
Please put the names of the cultures on the tier list in the final chapter for quick reference. Thanks!
Carthage buyout applies to influence and population as well as gold.
Edit to add: the Roman arch gains 5 inf and 10 stab, making the total 8 and 13, and doesn't check if it's present in the taken city. IOW, conquering or assimilating one city makes ALL arches provide lots of stability and influence.
You miss the fact that since they re-balanced the faith output, faith producing districts are a lot more important, so the Aksumite with the market quarter scaling with faith is just ridiculous
Wholeheartedly agree about Persians. Love the extra city cap and the Immortals. And, they are available more often than not. I don’t think I’ve had the option to pick the Mayans yet.
The Gaesati have given me excellent service. No iron required but especially because they fight at full strength when wounded.
I’ve also had decent results with Greeks and even the Goths. Rome is the one I don’t get. Not sure you’d ever get to use their unit before the era was over.
It was a very good video 👍. The format was good I thought.
This guy doesn't understand the power of early religion in this game) putting Aksumiats below Carthgenians...
Yeh, Aksumites are pretty strong and less situationally than Carthaginians
I mentioned in my own reply that I think it's money he's undervaluing, not necessarily religion. He's just not making the connection that with a strong religion you can be pulling in 20-30 gold per turn PER Obelisk but even if he were I think he'd still underrate them because he just underrates gold as a whole in the early game. I think it's because (to my knowledge) he's only ever played cultures like Nubia and Aksumites in his "I'm going to play nothing but Merchant civs" style games and you can't approach gold like that. Buyout price scaling is utterly broken and insane in late game. You play merchant civs early to buy a strong industrial base, then transition to something else.
I think gold is very map dependant. The more trading partners you have, the more valuable it gets basically.
What?
TIL a lot of people apparently don't understand how to use excess gold properly in Humankind. Gold is literally the LEAST map-dependent yield there is. Some merchant civs are very map dependent (Nubia) but the resource itself is not in any way whatsoever map dependent. Actually, it gets better the worse the map is. Do your lands have poor food production? Buy granaries and farmer's quarters everywhere. Do your lands have poor hammer production? Buy maker's quarters - or just say screw production and buy whatever you need. No tiles that give science to start building a science sector? Use gold to spam 3 adjacent research quarters and have good yields anyway. Get declared on but didn't have a standing army in place yet? Use your gold to buy an army.
So once you’ve done all the tier lists are you going to do a play through with all the F tier civs? 😉
I have asked and it has been delivered and now I watch.
I'm do think the Greeks are stronger than you give credit for. For that area, the science gain you can get is high. Plus their unique district can be placed next to anything to get science, as it's +2 per adjacent district. So if you still need food, but would like some science also you can mix it up for example.
Myself I'd put them in B tier.
Currently doing a multiplayer game and I was late to the classic era, I was really struggling to pick when only a few were left and my favourite were gone. That was the day I discovered the cothon. BIG FOOD, BIG INDUSTRY.
First here ooh do you plan on doing a stellaris game?btw I think you should do a industrial cultures only with the coruscant challenge to make it that much Harder (btw coruscant challenge is where you have a building on every tile in the world) so he must fight ai while building before the game ends and in order to win there cant be any ai alive so you can fill all tiles have fun and a good day
My man did not sleep on the Persians GG.
Also the Romans arguably need a buff imo.
How about creating tier lists for techs? Like which are seem to be more powerfull and giving more etc I think there are some techs like this changing a lot, especially microbiology.
+2 food per farmer is dependant on you doing a growth strategy with focus on having farmers in your cities.
It’s not dependent on any strategy. Farmers get +2. If you or I have more or less farmers than an opponent, that’s on us.
when tiering the spanish dont forget about their insane interaction with the angor wat, giing your districts 1 food per population, something not found until much later eras
Hoplites always win vs cavalry and infantry. They are amazing up to gunpowder.
Just came back to the game, I'm glad they buff rome to give +50 fame if you build the arch on triumphal city.
to be honest building districts are more important to produces resources. infrastructure: necessary are like animal barn or granary and walls, schools and watchtowers to keep an eye on your borders
While I generally agree with your ranking, I would personally put Persians higher than Maya for the following reasons. In my experience, when I play on normal size world or anything bigger, I absolutely NEED the extra 2 city cap to manage. If you select the new world as well, that is even a bigger need. Also, since I usually select Egyptian in ancient era and Khemrs in the next era, I get so much industry that selecting Maya in classic era (or Mughals in the era after Khemrs) becomes redundant and not very useful anymore. In several hundred hours that I have played and many playthroughs, I have selected Mayans 3-4 times and half of those times I regretted it. There were only couple of times that I did not have too much space for expansion and I was also not conquering any other cities that Maya actually worked.
I have come to the same conclusion, the +2 cities is just better than anything else on offer. With a good unit and decent influence from the building I chose them every time I can. Unless you play with some setting where you can't use the extra cities of course.
You are severely under ranking the Greek EQ. It is an amazing research quarter for it's era and probably the best research quarter in the first 4 eras. It also gives a bit of influence at the start of the game when you need it most. Greeks are easily A tier just on their research quarter and for being a science culture and are definitely better than Carthage IMO.
And since their building also counts as a research quarter, it gets all the same bonuses that research quarters get, so they scale more than just by era.
I mainly transition into Aksumite for classical era and i wouldn't consider them that weak. yeah, industry is always king compared to other ressources and their unique unit isn't that great especially since its neither a mounted nor a ranged one (ranged unique unit in classical when there is no upgrade to archer in this era is kinda broken but that's a more global issue).
Regarding the obelisk, being able to generate fate this early can be the difference between your religion spreading or being removed from existence. Its scaling is probably garbage on smaller maps because there would be less territories but it scales really well in larger world and easily yield more than 100 gold in later stages of the game, something that can't really be said for a lot of districts.
The hunting horse isn't 20 strength.
It's strength is 22, because it gets its culture bonus for secret strength.
Goths UU is very good
Goths is not fail
I think you greatly underestimate the power of Goths. Gothic cavalry is one of the strongest units during era 2, have decent stats and combat bonuses, literally wreaking any opposing forces. On top of that, Gothic cavalry has half the production cost of a regular cavalry, which is 82 vs 164 on normal speed. Its a HUGE difference and you can make 2-3 of them in a single turn! Their emblematic district boosts religion and can help you get religious leadership, but more to that - it has a small but noticable bonus to influence. And their militarist ability is amazing - your gothic cavalry cant attack armies under walls, but your militia can! With Goths you can quickly overrun your opponents and receive militarist stars in no time. And finally, their Nimble pillage ability really helps to build ransack-economy, you simply ransack quicker and gain more out of it! Remember, you get decent resources from ransacking trade routes and pillaging artisan quarters!
Archers and Egyptian Markabata upgrade to Mauryan Saṃnāhya. Situational, but worth noting.
I'm here for it!
I don't see why the Persian's district not synergizing with the Persians is a problem since you are looking to synergize with what exactly you as a player has created so far in the game.
If that matches the mixed traits then the synergy is there.
IF it matches, yes. As I say at the start of the tier list, I’m more interested in the culture itself rather than hypothetical synergies with other cultures that you may or may not have access to
One thing I wished they did was divide 4x into turn based and real time. I can play turn based while cooking dinner. I like the real time, but I wonder the cross over.
I'd like something where it's turn based for the overarching gameplay, but then battle are real time.
Should you have two in each tier? At the moment there are more good cultures than bad ones.
Disliked it, the greeks are my favorite
Same
Note hippodrome & cothon adjemcy dont work when u place them next to each other
Celts should be noted that their unit doesn't take iron, so if you don't have it it is great
Romans are A-Tier. Love getting it because I can get that early common quarters.
i think huns are not so good... if player see, that you a huns, spearmans and a several forts and you cannot do anything... and to collect new units is too difficult(
I think that the +2 city cap for the persians are the most overrated buff in the game.
Even during the game jumbo was playing in the backgroud you can realize that being at 3/4 city means that the only thing that the legacy was providing is +10 influence per turn, and the later in the game this buff become pretty useless cuz influence loss per city over cap does not scale.
And you can always pick 'Small Council' (+1 city cap) in th leadership civic to dampen things.
Persian LT is situational but in the right situation, it is EXTREMELY strong. It all depends on how much room you have to spread out. If you only have enough space for 3 or 4 cities then they're pretty bad. If you're on a larger map or just got lucky and you have the room to put down 5, 6, or even more good cities then it becomes absolutely S-tier and one of the best LTs in the entire game. Having 5 or 6 cities when other civs are capped at 3 or 4 is super powerful, you almost can't overstate how much of an advantage it gives you.
Yes, it's fairly easy to be 2 cities over the cap. Once you switch to spending gold to merge territories and cities, you can get 3-4 cities over the cap without really putting yourself behind. I would rate Persia B - C tier. Commons Quarters are cheap and they generate influence as well if you pick the right civics. +10 stability per outpost/city is pretty easy to replicate; it's basically 2/3rds of an average commons quarter per city which isn't much.
Really dissapointed how Roman's are depicted in this game. They were one of the most successful and influential cultures in history. I have zero desire to pick them out of all the other available cultures.
maybe its just me but am i the only one who plays with a few city and many per pop/district bonuses?
I feel that because you can go over cap just by paying stars, when i get to the ce no matter what civ im playing i can have 13, 14 cities and still have a strong influence game. I just don't see why +2 city cap is such a strong trait. I will say i have yet to play these guys so i won't judge either way yet, but... Id rather have +5 per arch... But again i'll just sit quietly in the corner while the adults figure this one out...
1 over City cap isn't a big deal, being 10 Influence per turn. That's basically the Main Plaza and that's it. When you get 2 over cap however, it gets PAINFUL. I think it's 120 Influence per turn, which is 2 fully developed cities worth until the late Medieval to Early Modern.. +2 City cap means that you can have the full influence gain from those two cities, meaning you can keep expanding faster, or afford all the really good civics that are unlocking during these periods faster, ETC. It's basically a net difference of at least 240-360 influence per turn, which is HUGE until the Industrial.
@@Pizza7478 if you play a lot of expansion cultures like I have or an asthete or two than 120 is not a big hit by the medieval era, last night I went Assyrian Roman Teuton and was making 1200 influence per turn two over cap. 3 over cap (a 300 hit if I'm not mistaken) is still viable in that situation, it's just 200 more. After that it hits 1000 and it's not really viable until late game... But CE cultures are extra strong so it may be possible late game.
Yikes, I went from Harappan to Mayan and never built the Mayan special district. :(
OMG you dont like Goths. You omitted their biggest strength - cavalry. Just look at how much hammers and pop it costs comparing to other era units. Now it is B tier. Then add faith for claiming land and culture and how easy military stars are. Still be tier but no way worse than Celts
Greeks and goths have somehow merged in the timestamps
Wooo, I fucking LOVE Carthage and I don't really care for the merchant cultures.
Greeks need more appreciation
I think greeks should be A tier and celts B tier.
Greeks are by far the best culture in this era. The ability to research the next Eta currently just breaks the game. Their unit is top tier and their district is really good as well.
@jumbopixel is LITERALLY live streaming and has picked the Greeks because he needs the bonus they give!!!! C tier..? I THINK NOT young Kiwi (evil laugh) MWAH HA HA HA HA HA
THE GREEKS ARE GREAT!!
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