The first rifle I ever fired above my little .22 was a 30-06. I still have that 30-06 which was my Cherokee Grandfather's rifle that I inherited. It's an FN Herstal Mauser 98k. I spent my last teen years in the military, learning to be a sniper. I brought that up only to point out that my training makes me pretty solid as a shooter. That old rifle, now 81 years old, still fires straight and true. It's a tack driver out to 800 yards. There are some designs that are iconic and the Mauser bolt action rifle is one of them. I'll take my old 30-06 over most modern designs.
The airforce moved my family to Alaska (as it did many others) after the Korean conflict, in 1958. Our first home was in Nome, on the shores of the Bearing sea. He had brought his sporterised 30.06. During the summer, polar and brown bears would wander into town and become a nuicance. The elders would come to our home and fetch my father to dispatch the trouble makers. During our 2 summer stay there, he shot 8 polar and 3 brown bear. The elders knew dad had the largest rifle there. Having living here since then, l took his love of bear hunting. Today, l carry a. Sako in 375 h&h. It is a perfect outfit for bears of all stripes. Even a large brown bear will quickly succume to a single, well placed shot.
I was mauled on Kodiak while blacktail hunting some years ago. I survived because my partner shot the bear off me with a .300 Mag (did not kill the bear, it attacked another hunting party two days later). The first thing I did after a long recovery was order a .350 Rem Mag built on a Model 7 action from the Remington Custom Shop. This was back before Remington QC slid into the toilet and so it's a beautiful rifle. I never had the opportunity to use that rifle on a bear, but flattened plenty of blacktails with it. I've retired to the Arizona desert and that rifle is now my sons for use back in Kodiak.
Glad you came through that reasonably OK (I assume)! 350 Rem Mag is a great cartridge, and Remington knew how to make rifles back in the day! This video ends at 1956, when the 458WM and the belted magnum era started. Thanks for watching!
@@30-06john Remington actually drew input from Alaska bear guides when designing the cartridge and the ill fated Model 600 rifle to house it. The consensus was a short action magnum that would push a 250 grain slug at 2500 fps. A lot of bear guides still use that cartridge which is why I chose it.
This was a very informative video on a subject that you have carefully studied. I live in bear country of NW Montana , about 50 miles south of the border with Canada, and my 348 Winchester Model 71 is always in my hand on hikes. Thanks for the video.
Outdoor writers have hyped up so many cartridges through the years but few have proven the get er done staying power of the capable 30-06. Regardless of caliber preference.. the shot placement means everything.
In this vide, I was talking about Brown and Grizzly Bears. But the 30-06 has proven itself for over 100 years for all types of hunting. Thanks for watching!@@yourgodsisspeakingtoyouher4284
My dads' family used a 40-82 lever action model 1886 Winchester . There was only one larger rifle at that time , a 45-90 , the farmer in the next valley had one . My grandfather said it sounded like a cannon going off .
My grand father also told me , he removed the second barrel , ammo , because you could not hold it up , and he was a Blacksmith and Farrier . I'm told you cannot buy bullets any more for that rifle .@@30-06john
Mention should also be made of the 30-40 Krag. Before the '06 became popular, a lot of old timers took large bears quite well with the 220 grain Krag cartridge. Most post-ww2 writers seem to approve only of magnums, but the old boys seemed to get by with sporterized Krags, Enfields, and Springfields.
We lifelong Alaskans swear by a 338, like the Win Mag but my personal choice is the 338-08 or 338 federal as its known today. Mine is a M77 All Weather. I also use a 303 No 4 Mk 1, and of course the 44 Mag lever action as the truck gun. Sears Model 53 in 30-06 is my go to Cabin rifle, but for Kodiak and surrounding Islands I'll take my Winchester Model 770 in 300 WM with 250 Gr Barnes Round Nose slugs for those pesky Ursine with 180 Gr rounds for the blacktail deer. In AK always remember to carry a sidearm appropriately chambered for your area.Cheers everyone!
I have shot a lot of game over the years here in Alaska with my .338WMs, great cartridge. I kept this video to just before the .338WM was introduced. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
Moved here (and been here) since 1958. K love my 338 wm. Bought it in 73. Have 38 bears with it now. Many moose and many c'bou and countless sitka deer. Like your thoughts now that l am 68 ;)
Kind of odd to use the .458 WinMag as a marker for some perceived change in cartridge preferences when it is based on the .375 HH which was and continues to be very popular when a big bore rifle is required.
I chose that date and cartridge since that was the beginning of the "belted magnum era" which introduced the 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 264 Win Mag, 358 Norma mag and many others. Thanks for watching!
.348 I am proud to say is still being used to this day in Vermont, Maine, and S.C. as the backup to my Browning 30-06 My grandfather got it in 1937 and interestingly enough it came with a calendar and each month showed the style of "Big Game" it could kill. It went from Whitetail to Elephant!
I know it's past your cut-off date but I have a Brown Precision Pro Hunter Elite in 350 Rem Mag that I always wanted to take a grizzly with. It's built on a Rem 673 action. Alas, it looks like it'll never happen. Thanks John!
Out of the lower 48 states, from what I have seen Montana has more grizzlies than Idaho Wyoming & Colorado combined. However my Grandfather and dad always talked about the 348 Winchester for bear on their Alaska trips being the cats meow. nice job on the video keep making us more!
I live in MT Griz country. They are mean AF. We never venture into the backcountry with a handgun, 10mm is my fav and a long gun. Typically .308 or greater.
I appreciate your opinion. Have 38 bears to my credit and have had the Sako M 995 TRG W/ 20" for 25 years. Have killed 4 bears at less than 16 feet, including one at point blank. At 68 years old, I would say anything can go wrong with any firearm. I trust mine and my handloads well enough. Thanks for your advice, sir.
Thanks! In this video, I quantified which cartridges and guns were used, from all the books I read, with a bit more emphasis with guides, bush rats and experienced outdoorsmen. This is for the beginning of smokeless powder, to about 1956, when the belted magnum era started. I tried to keep my opinion out of it. That said, I am living in Alaska 40 years now, I know Bear guides and Bear defense instructors. I have killed a couple of Bears. Thanks for your thoughts and stay safe!
I read alot of old text about old timer hunters in AK using a Remington Model 8 in 35 Remington old Grizzly. I think mainly because it was the first semi auto, but when people like Elmer Keith and Townsend Whelen write praise about it, I'll listen
Well, there was one hunter that was a judge in Alaska. He used the Model 8 in 35 Rem and killed many Bears over the years. He switched to a M1 Garand in 30/06 when they became common surplus after WW2. In my readings, he was the only person to use a 35 Rem. Thanks for watching!
Never hunted a Grizzly just Black Bear local to Tennessee here, I’ve used my 30-06 but taken most with my 308 and 7mm-08 did get one with my crossbow and this was a great video my friend 😀
Yeah, there were a lot of black powder cartridges used. This video starts at about the beginning of smokeless powder, 1894-ish, and those cartridges that made the transition to smokeless. Thanks for watching!
The .405 Winchester was Theodore Roosevelt's "big medicine" gun. He took a lot of game with it in America and Africa. For serious work in Africa he used a Holland & Holland .500/.450 which, if you read his book, he didn't particularly enjoy shooting.
You got my attention with "What the Old Timers Really Used"... I couldn't help thinking this to be a run down on the Black Power profile on Bears.... but you follow up modern smokeless powder weapons ...
Actually, I published a video on Mountain Men Grizzly Guns just a few days ago. There I talk about what the Indians used, and guns of Spanish colonists, Lewis and Clark, and Mountain Men. Thanks for watching!
@@30-06john black powder guns is more like making a cake ... adjusting the powder charge accommodate the many types of ammunition for use in just one rifle ...
I have a few 30-06…my favorite all around caliber. I also have a few 303’s, 35 rem’s in 336 and 7600 carbine , a 300 ultra mag, and a 375 ultra mag. Think my goto while walking around would be my 6.5 pound, 35 Whelen pump in Remington 7600 carbine. Might not be the most powerful of the group but I could dump some follow up rounds into a bear REAL fast if needed. It’s also the lightest and most compact of the group and equal to the 35 rem 7600 with more spank. Nice video of the older straight wall rounds! Shot a few black bear with 45-70 govt and they ran off like they weren’t hit with broadside boiler room placements. A 180 grain Scirrocco out of my 300 ultra mag dropped a nice bear its tracks. Took a 7’1” decent black bear with a 200 grain partition out of my RUM. It made it a good 35 yards before it expired with a broadside boiler room shot placement. Shot placement and bullet selection imo holds ALL the cards when trying to stop a bear in its tracks. Just aim between the eyes and hope it hits your mark.
@@gilbertgurule5395 Well, that depends on the situation and rifle being used. For hunting using a 30-06 type cartridge, and the time, I would get the double lung, upper heart area first. A good bullet should damage both lungs, the Bear will run, but die fairly fast. For a Bear charge, then head shot, miss that and will still hit bone. If using a larger cartridge, then a upper shoulder shot will probably immobilize and kill the Bear. I hope this helps, and thanks for watching!
Take a close look at that .348 Winchester. With similar weight bullets, it kind of acted like a .30-06 in a bigger bore back in its era. Flat nose and round nose bullets cost it range, but at reasonable iron sight distances it did a pretty decent job at slapping down heavier game. And being a lever action also made it attractive to a lot of hunters.
I grew up with my Dad's bring-back 7.92x57 K98k Spreewerk Mauser. It's taken a few Michigan deer and now resides in my stable. First high-powered rifle I shot, it's with me here in Colorado altho not my top hunting rifle- i don't want to drill, tap and restock what is rapidly becoming a pricey antique.. I have another couple Mausers that have been gun-smithed into good hunting rifles (before I owned them), and they're up there with the .30-06 using European or my own handloaded hunting ammo... (American-made 8mm Mauser is down-loaded to not a lot more than .30-30 levels, for reasons of their own...
hosea sarber noted Alaskan game warden favored the 30-06 with the 220 grain corelokt bullet for brownies and 180 grain pointed corelokt for general longer range use....he also liked the 160 grain ...270 load as well.with the old Barnes bullet....surprisingly he was dissapointed with .375 h&h bullet quality stating they did not set up well on brownies..sarber emphasized pin point bullet placement .....and was the best there was at it...
.30-06 with some fairly conventional bullets of 180 to 220 grain managed to do a fair job on some pretty big critters based on decent penetration with reasonable expansion . None of those loads in factory form were what you would call overly fast, so the bullets weren't overly stressed on impact; that contributed to decent penetration with what we would now call "soft" bullets. You toss in modern premium bullets in high performance handloads with modern powders, the old .30-06 can deliver terminal results a bit beyond it's legendary reputation. The gap between .30-06 modern loads and the old original loads for the .300 H&H magnum is now pretty minimal.
There was a federal judge based in Juneau 1950s. I understand he exclusively used a Remington Model 8 autoloading rifle in .35 Remington for all of his bear hunts.
For myself, when I'm out in ANY 'Apex Predators'' territory (Bears, Mtn. Lions, Wolves/'Yotes, et al), I always keep my .12 pump action shotgun, and .44 magnum revolver on me/within instant reach. Truly, the best deterrent/early warning system I've ever known is my trusty dusty Doggo. I know for a fact he's kept-away at least three bears, and likely more (Given the fresh scat/marks discovered the next day), and there's just no better way to stay 'Safe' out there. LOVE the 'Histories' of those who were brave enough to first venture into the 'Wilderness,' and how they managed to survive it (Or even if they didn't)! Thank you! ;-)
In Oregon, around 1900'a near Florence, there is a stuffed 9' grizzly shot by a Winchester...1940-45 30-30 lever. It was shot by a female. I used to live in Oregon. I thought my GOD, it was huge. Pioneers did have runs in huge bears.
I’ve seen an original cap & ball rifle that was marked .45 calibre, but it was actually .65 calibre. I asked the owner and he told me it was brought to California in the 1850s and the original owner had it rebored and re-rifled to the larger calibre to handle the California grizzly bears.
Another good - older - book on the subject is "Keith's Rifles for Large Game" by the late Elmer Keith. Book by a contemporary author is "Dangerous Game Rifles" by Terry Wieland.
The 35 Whelen has regained popularity in Mississippi. Due to diminishing of hunters in Mississippi and an expanding deer herd, it is now legal to use a single shot rifle with an exposed hammer of at least 35 caliber during primitive weapon season. However it destroys a lot of meat.
Would like to see you do another one if you have the time or inclination. On the old big bore black powder cartridges. 45-90 thru the 45-120, 50-90, 50-95, 50-110 and 50-140 @@30-06john
Yeah, I do practice a bit. The lever action is my 450M, I had a larger recoil pad installed. The bolt is my Ruger paddle stock 338WM, I only shoot that with a thicker coat! Thanks and Merry Christmas!
@@30-06johnI know just what you mean I have two Ruger paddle stock rifles 300 winny and the 338 win mag and both are plenty stout on both ends of the gun just subbed to the channel second video I've seen
@@30-06john you bet I'm a very avid hunter shooter and collector never been to Alaska doubt I'll ever get the chance but I've hunted around the lower 48 in different states for big game
Surprised that the 30-40 k was not on the list especially with the original 220gr load surplus kreg rifles and the 1895 winchesters and the single shot in it
I ran across a 33 win in grate shape a few years ago in a pawn shop in fl. The story that came with the gun was the original owner was a professional bear and panther hunter for bountys on them and also for when the state was dealt with the screw worms. A parasite that would kill live stock. At the time if you could not dip to treat the animals the stock officer could kill it. Thats back when fl was a free range state. The guy bought that 33 new in the 1900 teens and was his working rifle and hunting rifle It was in good shape for the age and had half octagon 1/2 round barrel Had buck horn rear sight but the front was interesting it had a flip up ivory bead the guy said best guess was for a night sight. And I have read about some British hunters using a ivory bead for night sights for big cat hunting in India. I wonder if it was the same thing here for panthers. Don't know if the family got it back or not the shop had closed when I next came by. He had some original cartridges some full metal patch ( fmj) and a jsp with a lot of lead showing. Whish that old rifle could have told its story
I have all the calibers shown, they are all excellent if used properly and on reasonable sized game. I do have a .35 Whelan Improved that is a dandy, but then I'm kinda in love with anything that goes BOOM! At 72, do you ever grow up?
John, it looks like you forgot the 50's like the 50-70 and then the 50-90 which were black powder cartridges but they packed a pretty good wallop. The 50-90 was the premier buffalo hunters choice to take down those massive animals. I would think they would work for either grizzly or brown bear. They were also loaded with smokeless. Later on those cartridges were extended out to 50-110 and all the way to 50-140, but not by Sharps who stopped at 50-90. If you had a reason for not including them what was it?
In my readings, I did not read of any uses of those cartridges in the time frame of the video, from the beginning of smokeless powder, to the beginning of the "belted magnum era". Of course they would work on Brown/ Grizzly Bears. Thanks for watching!
We need more power today; the bears today are pumping iron, taking steroids and a lot of them are on crack,the other day i saw a Grizz with tattoos all over his body and he had a shaved head.!
I was hoping to see comments on what was used before the .45/70 of 1873. The Marlin was shown as an 1871 model chambering the 45/70 which I find curious as that was a military cartridge introduced with the Springfield of 1873. Was the 1871 model originally introduced with other chamberings prior to the 45/70 that allowed introduction of the 45/70 to it?
That is actually a Marlin 1881 that I show and mention in the video. From what I have read, Andrew Burgess made some lever actions for Whitney Arms before going to Marlin and creating the 1881. Thanks for watching!
Okay, then the model of 1881 was the model being referenced, and Marlin beat Winchester by five years with a lever action .45/70. I had never heard of an 1871 Marlin.@@30-06john
Can't believe you left out 38 -55 I know alot of black and grizzly bears have been took with this caliber it hits hard up to 150 and some cases 200 yrds.
In the old days, the cowboy days, I think the 45.70 cartridge was the go to cartridge. Marlin used to advertise their lever action rifles chambered in 45.70, .444 Marlin as "Alaskan bush guide guns" that could kill a Kodiak bear. I also agree with the claims that the 30.06 will get the job done, however I dont think 30.06 was an oldtimer bear gun. With good shot placement the simple 30.30 Winchester can EASILY kill a black or brown bear. A grizzly bear maybe but Id prefer something more powerful myself.
@@30-06john Very true. I read a MACV SOG guy named Jerry "Mad Dog" Shriver got one state side, Marlin lever rifle in.444 Marlin), brought it with him back to Vietnam. Said he enjoyed the psychological impact it had on the NVA during SOG cross border raids into North Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
*Those 19th and 20th century hunters who hunted black and grizzly bears professionally for a living were excellent shots because the Darwinian selection process was brutal. The average, mediocre, and poor shots didn't live through the selection process. Neither the exact ball diameter of their patched ball percussion muzzleloading rifles, nor the caliber of the bullet in their cartridge rifles was as important as where each shot landed when they pulled the trigger. When I lived in Alaska a lot of the native Alaskans whom I met, which is to say those born in Alaska, carried bolt-action .30-06 rifles loaded with Remington Core-Lokt 220 grain soft point bullets; and they didn't feel undergunned.*
@30-06john 9.3x62 introduced in 1905 358 winchester introduced in 1955 Both within thie time frame of this video .both had a following within this time frame
@30-06john Actually Upon its introduction In 1955 the 358 winchester enjoyed some pretty good mainstream popularity for a few years . However it's downrange terminal ballistics weren't great which is why it lost popularity but many died in the wool sourdough alaskans still favored it.
30 caliber guns are the top of the small bores 8mm guns are the start of the medium bores 375 guns are the start of big bores that qualify as " Big Game Rifles" the 416 caliber guns are the most common size used. 458 caliber guns and larger are stopping rifles, 47 caliber guns top the list Yes, a stopping rifle is designed to stop charging wounded big game, and you can hunt with it, but most people don't.
In this video, I show what was actually used for Grizzlies from beginning of smokeless powder, to the belted magnum era. You are talking about African classifications which is not used here in North America. Thanks for watching!
41 caliber board. That's what they shoot hogs with. It keeps changing the word to board. The hog gunner, the gun that used to kill hogs with you hunted hogs with a spear. And then when this hog got too close to you and you weren't able to kill him with a spare. You use the 41 caliber to kill him. That's what they used on bears.That was the most powerful gun up until the 30th 6 came in or the 30-30.Maybe , but I don't think it's as powerful
@@30-06john No, I'm talking about a 41 caliber board. God, it keeps changing the name where you go. But change that to board God the pig gun. It was used to kill pigs. Wild boars when you. Hunted, I'm you hunted them with a spear and a 41 caliber, short rifle. Or pistol. Anything that will kill a hug will kill a bear.And that's what they use them for european hunters used them all the time to kill bear
@@30-06john I've been trying to Google. The gun that I'm talking about. I've had several of them. They come in 2 barrel pastos and short car beam RI falls. I said 2 barrel and one barrel pistols and short barrel Rifles
@@30-06john But I have. N't been able to find them on Google in because it's Wikipedia. They only give what they want you to have. And they keep talking about modern day. Ammunition and modern day rifles. The original board guns were used in Europe to hot wild pigs or wild boar. Because they were so dangerous. You hunted up with a spear with a cross on it. And the idea was to crawl into the brush. And stab him with that spear in his chest. The kid is hard but sometimes they would run over you.And you had to use the pistol to kill them.Then it was a special gun that was designed for that.I did not have forty five calibers at the time
The REAL old-timers used .50 and .54 caliber muzzle loaders, then Buffalo guns. Yeah, about everything imaginable has been used at one time or another. A lot of the guides used the .375 H&H magnum to good effect.
The 35 Whelen was a wildcat since it was introduced in 1922 until 1987 when it was standardized by Remington. Before that there were very few factory chambered rifles. Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
That is mostly used in double rifles. I know that some guides use double rifles, but I did not read of any cases. They are very expensive rifles and that probably limits it's use. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
You can’t have a list like this and not include the story of Bella Twin and make reference to the rifle that was used to take a world record Grizzly in 1953. Look it up awesome story of what you can do with what you have.
This video's timeframe ends at 1956 with the introduction of the 458 Win Mag and started the belted magnum era. The 358 Norma Mag was introduced in 1959. Thanks for watching!
There have been many Brown/ Grizzly bears killed with a .308, correct ammo is important. This video ended about when the .308 was introduced so was not included. Thanks for watching!
The 303 is definitly not Canada's 30-06. It's stands on it own Merritt. The 303 is popular yes and yes we love it here I n canada. But that is due to versatility and the cost of the rifle. I would never take one over any of today's 30-06 's but I would also not turn one down that is in good shape .
Gotta believe what he was trying to say is it's what the GIs coming home were familiar with and that gave them faith in it's ability, American GIs used the 30/06 and you guys were armed by the British, which is to say Canadians returning home found it reliable and effective.
Well, I was talking in overall popularity and how it was a military cartridge that became popular after the wars. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
I'm American. As a gun enthusiast, I have a lot of respect for the 303. The Enfield was a 10 round , magazine fed, fast bolt action in a good cartridge. I could be wrong but I believe it was when other military service rifles were using 5 round stripper clip fed bolt guns. The reason I believe it is such a versatile cartridge is that it was originally loaded with heavy bullets. Heavy for caliber bullets tend to be looooong. Long bullets mean sectional density. Sectional density means penetration. Similar strategy to 6.5 Swede , which has taken more than a couple brown and polar bear.😉
The original black powder loading used a round nosed heavier bullet than the standard 174 grain "spitzer" type bullet adopted later. Cordite was substituted for the black powder. In response to the Germans going to a 150 grain pointed bullet. The U.S. did the same thing as the British with the .303 British bullet. The .30-03 bullet was replaced with a 150 grain spitzer and renamed the .30-06 in 1906. The Lee Enfield was loaded with five round stripper clips into the detachable ten round magazine of which was not supposed to be removed from the rifle. The soldier did not carry extra loaded magazines...normally, I'm sure many did, but it was not regulation.@@shawnjohnson9096
In my readings, I did not note any uses of shotgun slugs on Brown/ Grizzly Bears for the time period of this video. 12G slugs have been pretty common for Bear defense since the 70's. Thanks for watching!
The first rifle I ever fired above my little .22 was a 30-06.
I still have that 30-06 which was my Cherokee Grandfather's rifle that I inherited. It's an FN Herstal Mauser 98k.
I spent my last teen years in the military, learning to be a sniper. I brought that up only to point out that my training makes me pretty solid as a shooter.
That old rifle, now 81 years old, still fires straight and true. It's a tack driver out to 800 yards.
There are some designs that are iconic and the Mauser bolt action rifle is one of them.
I'll take my old 30-06 over most modern designs.
The 30-06 is always a good choice! Happy New Year and thanks for watching!
@@30-06john Thank you.
A very Happy New Year to you and yours.
And, a big thank you for your videos.
The airforce moved my family to Alaska (as it did many others) after the Korean conflict, in 1958. Our first home was in Nome, on the shores of the Bearing sea. He had brought his sporterised 30.06. During the summer, polar and brown bears would wander into town and become a nuicance. The elders would come to our home and fetch my father to dispatch the trouble makers. During our 2 summer stay there, he shot 8 polar and 3 brown bear. The elders knew dad had the largest rifle there. Having living here since then, l took his love of bear hunting. Today, l carry a. Sako in 375 h&h. It is a perfect outfit for bears of all stripes. Even a large brown bear will quickly succume to a single, well placed shot.
Yeah, 30-06 and the 375 H&H pretty popular for Bears! Thanks for watching!
375H&H : one world…one cartridge 👍
I was mauled on Kodiak while blacktail hunting some years ago. I survived because my partner shot the bear off me with a .300 Mag (did not kill the bear, it attacked another hunting party two days later). The first thing I did after a long recovery was order a .350 Rem Mag built on a Model 7 action from the Remington Custom Shop. This was back before Remington QC slid into the toilet and so it's a beautiful rifle. I never had the opportunity to use that rifle on a bear, but flattened plenty of blacktails with it. I've retired to the Arizona desert and that rifle is now my sons for use back in Kodiak.
Glad you came through that reasonably OK (I assume)! 350 Rem Mag is a great cartridge, and Remington knew how to make rifles back in the day! This video ends at 1956, when the 458WM and the belted magnum era started. Thanks for watching!
@@30-06john Remington actually drew input from Alaska bear guides when designing the cartridge and the ill fated Model 600 rifle to house it. The consensus was a short action magnum that would push a 250 grain slug at 2500 fps. A lot of bear guides still use that cartridge which is why I chose it.
@@dalebenson6859I saw quite a few in my years on Kodiak, all treasured by the old school guides.
😅@@kodiakkeith
This was a very informative video on a subject that you have carefully studied. I live in bear country of NW Montana , about 50 miles south of the border with Canada, and my 348 Winchester Model 71 is always in my hand on hikes. Thanks for the video.
Thant's a great rifle you have! Thanks and thanks for watching!
My dad had one , he used to hunt moose in Canada 🇨🇦 never hear of them anymore ! It had alota recoil for a 12 year old kid !!!!!!!!
@@danthemeatman9883that'd be bloody spicy!
If you can't do it with a 30-06 you better quit doing it. Just my opinion.
The 30-06 is always a good choice! Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
Outdoor writers have hyped up so many cartridges through the years but few have proven the get er done staying power of the capable 30-06. Regardless of caliber preference.. the shot placement means everything.
Under all conditions against hard targets or only speaking against bears?
@@yourgodsisspeakingtoyouher4284 Here in the U.S. a 30-06 will do what needs done.
In this vide, I was talking about Brown and Grizzly Bears. But the 30-06 has proven itself for over 100 years for all types of hunting. Thanks for watching!@@yourgodsisspeakingtoyouher4284
My dads' family used a 40-82 lever action model 1886 Winchester . There was only one larger rifle at that time , a 45-90 , the farmer in the next valley had one . My grandfather said it sounded like a cannon going off .
Those are great, classic rifles! Same for the 40-82, although I did not read of it's use on Grizzlies. Thanks for sharing!
My grand father also told me , he removed the second barrel , ammo , because you could not hold it up , and he was a Blacksmith and Farrier . I'm told you cannot buy bullets any more for that rifle .@@30-06john
There’s a grisly guide in Alaska that says you can bring any gun you wish to hunt a Gris as long as it’s a 300 mag. Smart words .
I know a few Bear guides, a good bullet and being able to shoot in field positions is very important! Thanks for watching!
Mention should also be made of the 30-40 Krag. Before the '06 became popular, a lot of old timers took large bears quite well with the 220 grain Krag cartridge. Most post-ww2 writers seem to approve only of magnums, but the old boys seemed to get by with sporterized Krags, Enfields, and Springfields.
In my readings, I did not come across any uses of the 30-40 Krag for Brown/ Grizzly Bears. Thanks for watching!
We lifelong Alaskans swear by a 338, like the Win Mag but my personal choice is the 338-08 or 338 federal as its known today. Mine is a M77 All Weather. I also use a 303 No 4 Mk 1, and of course the 44 Mag lever action as the truck gun. Sears Model 53 in 30-06 is my go to Cabin rifle, but for Kodiak and surrounding Islands I'll take my Winchester Model 770 in 300 WM with 250 Gr Barnes Round Nose slugs for those pesky Ursine with 180 Gr rounds for the blacktail deer. In AK always remember to carry a sidearm appropriately chambered for your area.Cheers everyone!
I have shot a lot of game over the years here in Alaska with my .338WMs, great cartridge. I kept this video to just before the .338WM was introduced. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
Moved here (and been here) since 1958. K love my 338 wm. Bought it in 73. Have 38 bears with it now. Many moose and many c'bou and countless sitka deer. Like your thoughts now that l am 68 ;)
Kind of odd to use the .458 WinMag as a marker for some perceived change in cartridge preferences when it is based on the .375 HH which was and continues to be very popular when a big bore rifle is required.
I chose that date and cartridge since that was the beginning of the "belted magnum era" which introduced the 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 264 Win Mag, 358 Norma mag and many others. Thanks for watching!
.348 I am proud to say is still being used to this day in Vermont, Maine, and S.C. as the backup to my Browning 30-06 My grandfather got it in 1937 and interestingly enough it came with a calendar and each month showed the style of "Big Game" it could kill. It went from Whitetail to Elephant!
That's great! And thanks for watching!
I know it's past your cut-off date but I have a Brown Precision Pro Hunter Elite in 350 Rem Mag that I always wanted to take a grizzly with. It's built on a Rem 673 action. Alas, it looks like it'll never happen. Thanks John!
That is a great rifle you have! Merry Christmas and stay safe!
Out of the lower 48 states, from what I have seen Montana has more grizzlies than Idaho Wyoming & Colorado combined. However my Grandfather and dad always talked about the 348 Winchester for bear on their Alaska trips being the cats meow. nice job on the video keep making us more!
Thank you, and thanks for watching!
I live in MT Griz country. They are mean AF. We never venture into the backcountry with a handgun, 10mm is my fav and a long gun. Typically .308 or greater.
@@jasonlommen4769Glock 40 10mm and 30.06 when I'm in the back country. Got to stay safe in western Montana, Flathead Valley.
@@Booneboarder
Yes sir! 30-06 is a sweet cartridge. I also have a G40 and the 29 for shorter day ventures.
I appreciate your opinion. Have 38 bears to my credit and have had the Sako M 995 TRG W/ 20" for 25 years. Have killed 4 bears at less than 16 feet, including one at point blank. At 68 years old, I would say anything can go wrong with any firearm. I trust mine and my handloads well enough. Thanks for your advice, sir.
Thanks! In this video, I quantified which cartridges and guns were used, from all the books I read, with a bit more emphasis with guides, bush rats and experienced outdoorsmen. This is for the beginning of smokeless powder, to about 1956, when the belted magnum era started. I tried to keep my opinion out of it. That said, I am living in Alaska 40 years now, I know Bear guides and Bear defense instructors. I have killed a couple of Bears. Thanks for your thoughts and stay safe!
Grizzlies?
Yes, thanks for watching!
I read alot of old text about old timer hunters in AK using a Remington Model 8 in 35 Remington old Grizzly. I think mainly because it was the first semi auto, but when people like Elmer Keith and Townsend Whelen write praise about it, I'll listen
Well, there was one hunter that was a judge in Alaska. He used the Model 8 in 35 Rem and killed many Bears over the years. He switched to a M1 Garand in 30/06 when they became common surplus after WW2. In my readings, he was the only person to use a 35 Rem. Thanks for watching!
Those two guys would recommend a 35 Whelen using 250 grain bullets
Never hunted a Grizzly just Black Bear local to Tennessee here, I’ve used my 30-06 but taken most with my 308 and 7mm-08 did get one with my crossbow and this was a great video my friend 😀
Congrats on successful hunting, and thanks for watching!
In the old days they probably used a Sharps 45/70 .
Yeah, there were a lot of black powder cartridges used. This video starts at about the beginning of smokeless powder, 1894-ish, and those cartridges that made the transition to smokeless. Thanks for watching!
The 30-06 and 30/30 have killed more game in North America then any other round.
Yep, very popular and effective! Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
Legally, they have. The .22 LR and .22 WMR might have them the other way.
Read Elmer Keith...guns and ammo for big game hunting
I read the sections on Bears in that book. He used a 300 H&H and a 35 Whelen. Thanks for watching!
300 savage and 30-40 Krieg..my grandad used most his life on anything big
Great cartridges! Thanks for watching!
The 35 Whelen uses a 30-06 casing necked up to accept .358 bullets.
Yep, great cartridge! Thanks for watching!
Well researched, nicely presented. You have a winner here.
Thanks for the kind words, and for watching!
I live in Griz country and keep an old Marlin chambered in 35 Remington in my shop.
Yep, got to be ready! Thanks for watching!
The .405 Winchester was Theodore Roosevelt's "big medicine" gun. He took a lot of game with it in America and Africa. For serious work in Africa he used a Holland & Holland .500/.450 which, if you read his book, he didn't particularly enjoy shooting.
Yeah, this deals with Brown/ Grizzly Bears in North America. Thanks for watching!
@@30-06john Actually, I thought it was about the guns. The .405 Winchester was mentioned in the list. I thought I'd provide a bit of "background."
You got my attention with "What the Old Timers Really Used"... I couldn't help thinking this to be a run down on the Black Power profile on Bears.... but you follow up modern smokeless powder weapons ...
Actually, I published a video on Mountain Men Grizzly Guns just a few days ago. There I talk about what the Indians used, and guns of Spanish colonists, Lewis and Clark, and Mountain Men. Thanks for watching!
@@30-06john black powder guns is more like making a cake ... adjusting the powder charge accommodate the many types of ammunition for use in just one rifle ...
The 30 30 was one of the most powerful rifles of its time
Yep, it being chambered in a handy rifle helped too! Thanks for watching!
I have a few 30-06…my favorite all around caliber. I also have a few 303’s, 35 rem’s in 336 and 7600 carbine , a 300 ultra mag, and a 375 ultra mag. Think my goto while walking around would be my 6.5 pound, 35 Whelen pump in Remington 7600 carbine. Might not be the most powerful of the group but I could dump some follow up rounds into a bear REAL fast if needed. It’s also the lightest and most compact of the group and equal to the 35 rem 7600 with more spank. Nice video of the older straight wall rounds! Shot a few black bear with 45-70 govt and they ran off like they weren’t hit with broadside boiler room placements. A 180 grain Scirrocco out of my 300 ultra mag dropped a nice bear its tracks. Took a 7’1” decent black bear with a 200 grain partition out of my RUM. It made it a good 35 yards before it expired with a broadside boiler room shot placement. Shot placement and bullet selection imo holds ALL the cards when trying to stop a bear in its tracks. Just aim between the eyes and hope it hits your mark.
Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
@@30-06john Awesome, my comment magically came back after disappearing! Happy new year!!! Take me grizzly hunting!!!
Would it be better to shoot through the front shoulder? Then then boiler room with partitions?
@@gilbertgurule5395 Well, that depends on the situation and rifle being used. For hunting using a 30-06 type cartridge, and the time, I would get the double lung, upper heart area first. A good bullet should damage both lungs, the Bear will run, but die fairly fast. For a Bear charge, then head shot, miss that and will still hit bone. If using a larger cartridge, then a upper shoulder shot will probably immobilize and kill the Bear. I hope this helps, and thanks for watching!
@@30-06john thank you sir
More bears have been taken by muzzle loaders than any other gun will ever take.
Well, this video starts at smokeless powder and ends at the start of the belted magnum era. Thanks for watching!
In 1936 Winchester began chambering the model 70 in both. 300 and .375 H&H magnum, both belted cases.
Yep, that's what I said in the video! Thanks for watching!
Take a close look at that .348 Winchester. With similar weight bullets, it kind of acted like a .30-06 in a bigger bore back in its era. Flat nose and round nose bullets cost it range, but at reasonable iron sight distances it did a pretty decent job at slapping down heavier game. And being a lever action also made it attractive to a lot of hunters.
Yep, still being used here in Alaska, by some Old Timers!
I grew up with my Dad's bring-back 7.92x57 K98k Spreewerk Mauser. It's taken a few Michigan deer and now resides in my stable. First high-powered rifle I shot, it's with me here in Colorado altho not my top hunting rifle- i don't want to drill, tap and restock what is rapidly becoming a pricey antique.. I have another couple Mausers that have been gun-smithed into good hunting rifles (before I owned them), and they're up there with the .30-06 using European or my own handloaded hunting ammo... (American-made 8mm Mauser is down-loaded to not a lot more than .30-30 levels, for reasons of their own...
Nice rifles, and thanks for watching!
Many 1888 Mausers were brought back in WW1, so ammo makers tamed the
8x57 down.
I made a 8mm-06, a 30-06 case with a 8mm bullet.
hosea sarber noted Alaskan game warden favored the 30-06 with the 220 grain corelokt bullet for brownies and 180 grain pointed corelokt for general longer range use....he also liked the 160 grain ...270 load as well.with the old Barnes bullet....surprisingly he was dissapointed with .375 h&h bullet quality stating they did not set up well on brownies..sarber emphasized pin point bullet placement .....and was the best there was at it...
Yep, a lot of hunters have used the 30-06 to take Brown and Grizzly Bears over the decades! Thanks for watching!
.30-06 with some fairly conventional bullets of 180 to 220 grain managed to do a fair job on some pretty big critters based on decent penetration with reasonable expansion . None of those loads in factory form were what you would call overly fast, so the bullets weren't overly stressed on impact; that contributed to decent penetration with what we would now call "soft" bullets. You toss in modern premium bullets in high performance handloads with modern powders, the old .30-06 can deliver terminal results a bit beyond it's legendary reputation. The gap between .30-06 modern loads and the old original loads for the .300 H&H magnum is now pretty minimal.
Yep, I agree, and thanks for watching!
There was a federal judge based in Juneau 1950s. I understand he exclusively used a Remington Model 8 autoloading rifle in .35 Remington for all of his bear hunts.
He did use a Model 8 in 35 Rem, but switched to M1 Garand in 30-06 when they became available surplus after WW2. Thanks for watching!
For myself, when I'm out in ANY 'Apex Predators'' territory (Bears, Mtn. Lions, Wolves/'Yotes, et al), I always keep my .12 pump action shotgun, and .44 magnum revolver on me/within instant reach.
Truly, the best deterrent/early warning system I've ever known is my trusty dusty Doggo. I know for a fact he's kept-away at least three bears, and likely more (Given the fresh scat/marks discovered the next day), and there's just no better way to stay 'Safe' out there.
LOVE the 'Histories' of those who were brave enough to first venture into the 'Wilderness,' and how they managed to survive it (Or even if they didn't)!
Thank you!
;-)
A good dog is great! Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
My great grandpas 303 British is still putting animals down all these years later
Yep, a great cartridge! Thanks for watching!
In Oregon, around 1900'a near Florence, there is a stuffed 9' grizzly shot by a Winchester...1940-45 30-30 lever. It was shot by a female. I used to live in Oregon. I thought my GOD, it was huge. Pioneers did have runs in huge bears.
Yep, they are pretty impressive! Thanks for watching!
Very interesting, I like the 348 winchester, thanks.
Yep, a great cartridge! Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
My uncle Fuzzy used a .30-30 and later on he found a Rossi or Taurus .357 Magnum revolver, but that was mostly for black bear.
I have grandpa's old .303 Savage too.
Those are all great guns! Thanks for watching!
I’ve seen an original cap & ball rifle that was marked .45 calibre, but it was actually .65 calibre. I asked the owner and he told me it was brought to California in the 1850s and the original owner had it rebored and re-rifled to the larger calibre to handle the California grizzly bears.
Yep, California use to have a lot of Grizzlies! Thanks for watching!
The last one killed in New Mexico was with a 30/30.
Yep, 30-30 pretty useful! Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
I believe the last big one in Utah was killed with a .25-35. Around 1923. It weighed 1100lbs!
Two overlooked cartriges
358 winchester and its big brother the 35 whelen
The 35 Whelen was introduced as a wildcat in 1922. The 358 Win was introduced in 1955, right when this video ended. Thanks for watching!
The 358 WIN is a great round . Underapreciated
Another good - older - book on the subject is "Keith's Rifles for Large Game" by the late Elmer Keith. Book by a contemporary author is "Dangerous Game Rifles" by Terry Wieland.
I did not read that book, but I did read the Bear section of Elmer's book "Guns and Ammo for Hunting Big Game". Thanks for watching!
The 35 Whelen has regained popularity in Mississippi. Due to diminishing of hunters in Mississippi and an expanding deer herd, it is now legal to use a single shot rifle with an exposed hammer of at least 35 caliber during primitive weapon season. However it destroys a lot of meat.
Yeah, 35 Whelen is a great cartridge! Thanks for watching!
Would like to see you do another one if you have the time or inclination. On the old big bore black powder cartridges. 45-90 thru the 45-120, 50-90, 50-95, 50-110 and 50-140 @@30-06john
Yeah, I am actually toying with that idea!
Looking forward to it@@30-06john
I give you alot of credit--hammering away with the big boys and no apparent flinch..
Yeah, I do practice a bit. The lever action is my 450M, I had a larger recoil pad installed. The bolt is my Ruger paddle stock 338WM, I only shoot that with a thicker coat! Thanks and Merry Christmas!
@@30-06johnI know just what you mean I have two Ruger paddle stock rifles 300 winny and the 338 win mag and both are plenty stout on both ends of the gun just subbed to the channel second video I've seen
Thanks!
@@30-06john you bet I'm a very avid hunter shooter and collector never been to Alaska doubt I'll ever get the chance but I've hunted around the lower 48 in different states for big game
Surprised that the 30-40 k was not on the list especially with the original 220gr load surplus kreg rifles and the 1895 winchesters and the single shot in it
I did not read of any uses of the 30-40 Krag on a Brown or Grizzly Bear. Thanks for watching!
I love my 06 have 3 been reloading for them for 40 years but for bears I use my Remington 700 35 Whelen.
Yep, great cartridges! Thanks for watching!
Good Video John! ❤
Thanks CW! Merry Christmas!
Nice video!❤️😊👍
Thanks, and thanks for watching and Happy New year!
Wow! The .33 WCF gets a shout out! Great black bear gun in my family. No one has had a chance to use it on bigger bears.
From what I have read, it was a favorite of some Grizzly Bear guides! Thanks for watching!
I ran across a 33 win in grate shape a few years ago in a pawn shop in fl.
The story that came with the gun was the original owner was a professional bear and panther hunter for bountys on them and also for when the state was dealt with the screw worms.
A parasite that would kill live stock.
At the time if you could not dip to treat the animals the stock officer could kill it. Thats back when fl was a free range state.
The guy bought that 33 new in the 1900 teens and was his working rifle and hunting rifle
It was in good shape for the age and had half octagon 1/2 round barrel
Had buck horn rear sight but the front was interesting it had a flip up ivory bead the guy said best guess was for a night sight.
And I have read about some British hunters using a ivory bead for night sights for big cat hunting in India.
I wonder if it was the same thing here for panthers.
Don't know if the family got it back or not the shop had closed when I next came by.
He had some original cartridges some full metal patch ( fmj) and a jsp with a lot of lead showing.
Whish that old rifle could have told its story
I have all the calibers shown, they are all excellent if used properly and on reasonable sized game. I do have a .35 Whelan Improved that is a dandy, but then I'm kinda in love with anything that goes BOOM! At 72, do you ever grow up?
That is a great collection you have! Thanks for watching!
Great video Sir. Awesome channel. Do you have any videos on the 41 magnum planned?
Thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately, I do not own a 41M. Thanks again!
Good stuff, John 🇺🇲👍
Thanks, this video turned out better than I thought it would! Merry Christmas!
That was interesting. Thanks
Thank you for watching, and Merry Christmas!
My grandpa used 303 British for bear hunting a lot and elk and moose
Yep, pretty good cartridge, and thanks for watching!
45-70
Yep, pretty popular, and thanks for watching!
I read somewhere that the record brow bear was killed by a woman-- wait for it--- 22lr!! Granted lucky shot BUT
Yep, true! Thanks for watching!
Thank you!
Your welcome, and thanks for watching!
@@30-06john no griz gun, but old log camp guard toted .257 Roberts he felt secure with.
John, it looks like you forgot the 50's like the 50-70 and then the 50-90 which were black powder cartridges but they packed a pretty good wallop. The 50-90 was the premier buffalo hunters choice to take down those massive animals. I would think they would work for either grizzly or brown bear. They were also loaded with smokeless. Later on those cartridges were extended out to 50-110 and all the way to 50-140, but not by Sharps who stopped at 50-90. If you had a reason for not including them what was it?
In my readings, I did not read of any uses of those cartridges in the time frame of the video, from the beginning of smokeless powder, to the beginning of the "belted magnum era". Of course they would work on Brown/ Grizzly Bears. Thanks for watching!
We need more power today; the bears today are pumping iron, taking steroids and a lot of them are on crack,the other day i saw a Grizz with tattoos all over his body and he had a shaved head.!
That`s pretty funny! Thanks for watching!
I believe the 30-06 came out in 1904 but became popular because the US military adopted it in 1906
It was initially the 30 government, or 30-03. But in 1906 the cartridge was changed a bit and re-adopted in 1906. Thanks for watching!
I was hoping to see comments on what was used before the .45/70 of 1873. The Marlin was shown as an 1871 model chambering the 45/70 which I find curious as that was a military cartridge introduced with the Springfield of 1873. Was the 1871 model originally introduced with other chamberings prior to the 45/70 that allowed introduction of the 45/70 to it?
That is actually a Marlin 1881 that I show and mention in the video. From what I have read, Andrew Burgess made some lever actions for Whitney Arms before going to Marlin and creating the 1881. Thanks for watching!
Okay, then the model of 1881 was the model being referenced, and Marlin beat Winchester by five years with a lever action .45/70. I had never heard of an 1871 Marlin.@@30-06john
Can't believe you left out 38 -55 I know alot of black and grizzly bears have been took with this caliber it hits hard up to 150 and some cases 200 yrds.
In this video, I am talking about Brown/ Grizzly Bears. In my readings, I did not note any uses of the 38-55. Thanks for watching!
I would like the 340 wertherby mag or 300 wertherby mag or 338 win mag will work too
All great cartridges, but only the 300 Weatherby Mag was introduced before my cutoff date of 1956, year of 458WM. Thanks for watching!
I'm very surprised that the 12 Guage slugster didn't make the list! Its still the number one bear protection in bear country!
Yeah, the 12g with proper slugs is very popular these days, but in my readings for this video, no one used one. Thanks for watching!
I'm pretty sure I have several of those reloading manuals.
I used Lyman, Speer and old Hornady manuals. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
In the old days, the cowboy days, I think the 45.70 cartridge was the go to cartridge. Marlin used to advertise their lever action rifles chambered in 45.70, .444 Marlin as "Alaskan bush guide guns" that could kill a Kodiak bear. I also agree with the claims that the 30.06 will get the job done, however I dont think 30.06 was an oldtimer bear gun. With good shot placement the simple 30.30 Winchester can EASILY kill a black or brown bear. A grizzly bear maybe but Id prefer something more powerful myself.
The 444 Marlin is actually a newer cartridge, introduced in 1964. Thanks for watching!
@@30-06john Very true. I read a MACV SOG guy named Jerry "Mad Dog" Shriver got one state side, Marlin lever rifle in.444 Marlin), brought it with him back to Vietnam. Said he enjoyed the psychological impact it had on the NVA during SOG cross border raids into North Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
*Those 19th and 20th century hunters who hunted black and grizzly bears professionally for a living were excellent shots because the Darwinian selection process was brutal. The average, mediocre, and poor shots didn't live through the selection process. Neither the exact ball diameter of their patched ball percussion muzzleloading rifles, nor the caliber of the bullet in their cartridge rifles was as important as where each shot landed when they pulled the trigger. When I lived in Alaska a lot of the native Alaskans whom I met, which is to say those born in Alaska, carried bolt-action .30-06 rifles loaded with Remington Core-Lokt 220 grain soft point bullets; and they didn't feel undergunned.*
I am living in Alaska for going on 40 years! Thanks for watching!
Did you come across any stories involving shotgun slugs and bears?
Actually, a couple of incidents where birdshot was used to scare a Bear off. Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
Old timers used 30-06 30-30 358 winchrster 35 whelen 9.3×62 45-70 and 375 h&h mag
All mentioned except the 358 Win and 9.3X62, which were never popular in America during the timeframe of this video. Thanks for watching!
@30-06john
Not popular with the mainstream
But always had a cult following with many old timers
@30-06john
9.3x62 introduced in 1905
358 winchester introduced in 1955
Both within thie time frame of this video .both had a following within this time frame
@30-06john
Actually Upon its introduction In 1955 the 358 winchester enjoyed some pretty good mainstream popularity for a few years .
However it's downrange terminal ballistics weren't great which is why it lost popularity but many died in the wool sourdough alaskans still favored it.
30-06 min. 375 h&h preferred.
67 year old. ALASKAN
Both great choices! I am a 40 year Alaskan resident. Thanks for watching!
I didnt notice the 348 win in you video.
It is there, just past half way! Thanks for watching!
I meant about 3/4 through.
the biggest one on record in idaho was killed with a 30-30
Yep, 30-30 seems to get the job done! Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
The biggest on record in alaska was killed with an 06
awesome.God bless.
Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
I also hv this,my dad gave it to me when I was 16,I'm 72 now. It's taken deer & pigs- 1 shot 😊
Thanks for watching!
30 caliber guns are the top of the small bores
8mm guns are the start of the medium bores
375 guns are the start of big bores that qualify as " Big Game Rifles"
the 416 caliber guns are the most common size used.
458 caliber guns and larger are stopping rifles, 47 caliber guns top the list
Yes, a stopping rifle is designed to stop charging wounded big game,
and you can hunt with it, but most people don't.
In this video, I show what was actually used for Grizzlies from beginning of smokeless powder, to the belted magnum era. You are talking about African classifications which is not used here in North America. Thanks for watching!
41 caliber board. That's what they shoot hogs with. It keeps changing the word to board.
The hog gunner, the gun that used to kill hogs with you hunted hogs with a spear. And then when this hog got too close to you and you weren't able to kill him with a spare. You use the 41 caliber to kill him. That's what they used on bears.That was the most powerful gun up until the 30th 6 came in or the 30-30.Maybe , but I don't think it's as powerful
Maybe you are talking about the .405 Winchester? On the list and a great cartridge! Thanks for watching!
@@30-06john No, I'm talking about a 41 caliber board. God, it keeps changing the name where you go. But change that to board God the pig gun. It was used to kill pigs. Wild boars when you. Hunted, I'm you hunted them with a spear and a 41 caliber, short rifle. Or pistol. Anything that will kill a hug will kill a bear.And that's what they use them for european hunters used them all the time to kill bear
@@30-06john I've been trying to Google. The gun that I'm talking about. I've had several of them. They come in 2 barrel pastos and short car beam RI falls. I said 2 barrel and one barrel pistols and short barrel Rifles
@@30-06john But I have.
N't been able to find them on Google in because it's Wikipedia. They only give what they want you to have. And they keep talking about modern day. Ammunition and modern day rifles. The original board guns were used in Europe to hot wild pigs or wild boar. Because they were so dangerous. You hunted up with a spear with a cross on it. And the idea was to crawl into the brush. And stab him with that spear in his chest. The kid is hard but sometimes they would run over you.And you had to use the pistol to kill them.Then it was a special gun that was designed for that.I did not have forty five calibers at the time
Maybe you are talking about a Howdah pistol. In my readings they were not used on Grizzly/ Brown Bears in North America.
The REAL old-timers used .50 and .54 caliber muzzle loaders, then Buffalo guns.
Yeah, about everything imaginable has been used at one time or another.
A lot of the guides used the .375 H&H magnum to good effect.
Thanks for watching!
270 Winchester👊🏼😮💨
Yep, getting it done for almost 100 years! Thanks for watching!
Very interesting,but the Model 1895 looks wrong with a scope on it.
The lever action I was shooting is my Marlin, sorry I don`t have a 1895. Thanks for watching!
A brown bear is a grizzly, all those books and none mentioned this....?
Yep, Brown and Grizzly Bears are the same, depends if they are coastal and eat salmon or not. Thanks for watching!
The 35 Whelen is an excellent cartridge and recoil is not much more than 30/06
Yep, a great cartridge! Thanks for watching!
Lot of factory rifles in 35 wheln.
The 35 Whelen was a wildcat since it was introduced in 1922 until 1987 when it was standardized by Remington. Before that there were very few factory chambered rifles. Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
Good video but you missed the 308 Norma Magnum and the 358 Norma magnum.
I did not read of anyone using those cartridges on Brown or Grizzly Bears. Happy New Year and thanks for watching!
35 Remington?
I did not read of any uses of a 35 Remington for Brown or Grizzly Bear. Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
I. Have a 45 LC and a .308
Both fine cartridges! Thanks for watching!
Before listening. I am going to guess then comment on my answers after. 30-06 .270, 45-70, 35 Whelen and all the Whetherby mags ..279, 300
Good list! In my video I listed what I read that was used in that time frame. Thanks for watching!
@@30-06john I got a few right. You had some that I frankly had never known about even being a reloader. Great episode.
I owned a 30.06 Springfield and that has a kick worse than a shotgun
a 30-06 can kick a lot, depends on the stock and recoil pad, some rifles use hard butt plates. Thanks for watching!
35 whealan my choice but hard to find ammo now
Yep, my friends reload for it. Thanks for watching!
350 rem mag? It's sweet on bear
The 350 Rem Mag is a nice cartridge, it was introduced in 1965. This video timeframes ends at the mid 50s. Thanks for watching!
Though overkill, surprised not to see the .470 NE
That is mostly used in double rifles. I know that some guides use double rifles, but I did not read of any cases. They are very expensive rifles and that probably limits it's use. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
You can’t have a list like this and not include the story of Bella Twin and make reference to the rifle that was used to take a world record Grizzly in 1953. Look it up awesome story of what you can do with what you have.
I have read her great story. But even Indians and Alaskan natives do not consider a 22 rimfire a Bear gun. Thanks for watching!
My guess would have been the 338. Hope I never see one.
The 338 Win Mag was introduced (1958) just past the end of this video's timeframe (1956). Thanks for watching!
No .358 Norma Magnum!? .35 Whelen on steroids?
This video's timeframe ends at 1956 with the introduction of the 458 Win Mag and started the belted magnum era. The 358 Norma Mag was introduced in 1959. Thanks for watching!
45_70
Yep, a great cartridge! Thanks for watching!
.280 Remington
I did not read of anyone using a 280Rem on Grizzlies. Thanks for watching!
.308 good for brown bears ?
There have been many Brown/ Grizzly bears killed with a .308, correct ammo is important. This video ended about when the .308 was introduced so was not included. Thanks for watching!
The 303 is definitly not Canada's 30-06. It's stands on it own Merritt. The 303 is popular yes and yes we love it here I n canada. But that is due to versatility and the cost of the rifle. I would never take one over any of today's 30-06 's but I would also not turn one down that is in good shape .
Gotta believe what he was trying to say is it's what the GIs coming home were familiar with and that gave them faith in it's ability, American GIs used the 30/06 and you guys were armed by the British, which is to say Canadians returning home found it reliable and effective.
Well, I was talking in overall popularity and how it was a military cartridge that became popular after the wars. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!
I'm American. As a gun enthusiast, I have a lot of respect for the 303. The Enfield was a 10 round , magazine fed, fast bolt action in a good cartridge. I could be wrong but I believe it was when other military service rifles were using 5 round stripper clip fed bolt guns. The reason I believe it is such a versatile cartridge is that it was originally loaded with heavy bullets. Heavy for caliber bullets tend to be looooong. Long bullets mean sectional density. Sectional density means penetration. Similar strategy to 6.5 Swede , which has taken more than a couple brown and polar bear.😉
The original black powder loading used a round nosed heavier bullet than the standard 174 grain "spitzer" type bullet adopted later. Cordite was substituted for the black powder. In response to the Germans going to a 150 grain pointed bullet. The U.S. did the same thing as the British with the .303 British bullet. The .30-03 bullet was replaced with a 150 grain spitzer and renamed the .30-06 in 1906. The Lee Enfield was loaded with five round stripper clips into the detachable ten round magazine of which was not supposed to be removed from the rifle. The soldier did not carry extra loaded magazines...normally, I'm sure many did, but it was not regulation.@@shawnjohnson9096
Read the book bear Wars of Kodiak Island, they shot hundreds of kodiak's out of Cub Cadet airplanes with M1 grand.
I believe that was during the mid-60s. Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
270win 7mmmag
7MM Rem mag was introduced in 1962, after the timeframe of this video. Thanks for watching!
I bet just plain jane 12 gauge slugs have downed a lot of grizzlers over the last 120 years.
In my readings, I did not note any uses of shotgun slugs on Brown/ Grizzly Bears for the time period of this video. 12G slugs have been pretty common for Bear defense since the 70's. Thanks for watching!