Here is the thing, Bungie HATED someone else telling their story. Early Bungie disliked the early books, of which the Fall of Reach was some of the first so it makes sense a lot of it would be discounted. This opinion did apparently soften as time went on. I still love the game, just saying how it is.
There is ZERO evidence that Bungie disliked the expanded material. But like Lucas before them, it was their material to work with. Stop spreading nonsense.
@Chedring Settle down, it's the truth. They tried to kill The Fall of Reach, it had to be saved by Microsoft. They disliked the idea of a "defined backstory" en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo:_The_Fall_of_Reach#:~:text=According%20to%20Trautmann%2C%20the%20book,Chief%20having%20a%20definite%20backstory.
Contradicting other media you had no part when you're the original creator isnt a bad writing decision, doesnt matter if you like it or not, its not an objective thing
When it's bad yeah, I don't think people mind retcons When it's a firmly established and enjoyed part of the franchise I think smashing it to pieces with a hammer because you don't want to try and link it to other works isn't the best idea
It's a bit weird how they used parts of the extended universe canon but decided to forget some of it. Like with the spartan III's... existing. Or the prophets existing... or the engineers. or Halsey
The lore part is more of personal preference which I understand but what I can't get by is the story discussion. First off, when people talk about Noble Team’s depth they usually compare it to more broad storytelling standards and not the Halo franchise itself. I think you did the same. In terms of depth Noble Team is not that different from everyone else in the series. If we’re talking purely (Bungie) games, Chief, Johnson, Miranda, most of Bucks squad, Hood, Tartarus, the Covenant, they all remain stagnant as characters and never change. The only changes they have is in their objectives, such as how Hood decides to let Miranda assault the Ark or how Chief doesn't trust Spark after CE. Arbiter, Cortana, maybe the elites or Spark are the only characters that grow sorta. Arbiter is a no brainer. Cortana only really went through trauma, then was the same character after Chief saves her. Rtas and the elites only change their objective but they are more trusting of humans by endgame. Finally Spark goes from A.I. to slightly more evil/ proactive A.I. But even so most of these characters, besides Arbiter, are not that complex. Yes, development isnt everything to a character, and the dialogue in the original trilogy is amazing at giving good characterization, but I think Reach is just as good. There are small details and lines of dialogue that do this. You already mentioned Jorge but there's also June and Kat being less stoic with Kat always trying to find new ways to brighten the situation, Emiles character design/ mannerisms. I think you’re right about these guys being caricatures, Carter being the main example, but to say that none of them have depth then act like the characters outside of Reach do, is laughable. Not to mention the fact that Noble Team has a single game to develop whereas some people had two or even three full games focused on them. So you can't fault Noble Team for these issues. You also complained that their deaths feel like nothing, but that’s kinda the point. I feel like Bungie knew exactly what they were doing when they showed you how the story ends as soon as the game starts. It’s supposed to be a story about defeat and they display this not only through NT’s deaths but also Reach’s destruction. Even when comparing NT to Johnson or Miranda's deaths, again they had two (maybe three) whole games of development, yet they are still not profoundly impactful. Most of the characters in Halo are just one liner machines, and that's not a bad thing, it’s why we like them. However, blaming Noble Team for being the same doesn't work. Second, there's Noble Team's emotions. I don't know why people, especially you, get so up in arms when Noble Team does not react enough. Do we not remember that these are Spartan Three's? They were shaped into emotionless killing machines who were prepared for suicide missions. I don't understand why they need to be so emotional. Even so you didn't speak of the emotion in the initial moments after Kats death or Emile's death scene. You also criticized the characters for not treating Reach’s situation with more distress, even though everyone in the original trilogy is in a more dire situation, with Reach gone. Earth is humanity's last stand yet when it’s being invaded the characters are still cracking one liners and acting badass. Your complaints afterwards are just nitpicks, which you can do to any story, especially the original Halo trilogy. Then these nitpicks you turned into fanfiction. But it looks like your entire channel is just rage bait so yeah you got me.
I totally agree with you and this is the point the critics of Reach tends to miss. Small subtle details bungie puts into the game to use enviormental story telling to convey emotions and that works for me who is not that text or dialogue savy
Frankly the amount of people who disregard the reach book is ridiculous considering that it released before halo ce as promo and it set up the entire halo series and was the canonical events for a long time also i believe one of the halo game writers wrote it too
Considering it's about an entire planet falling and one of the biggest losses in humanities history, I think they could have focused on more stuff that was, ya know, actually about the fall of Reach?
@@therealloomar they do since they are the original creators, 343 isnt canon and nobody cares, the quality of 343 speaks for itself and the player base as well
@andresgarza8511 Unfortunately they sold their soul to Microsoft. It was a mistake I wished never occurred despite my love for CE-Reach. Since old Bungie is far gone and Microsoft is letting three hundred and fourth three incompetent devs take charge of the franchise, Bungie no longer has any stake. That being said, I acknowledge their 5 Halo games as a seperate canon from the 343 games and the books.
@@BigGainer98 I only played those games for the multiplayer, and yeah bungie is gone as well since 2016, but that’s why we see who is involved in projects. If Jason jones, and Marcus aren’t involved is not canon by simple logic.
Well they were the original creators, and that is what they said, Although they do have faults Like halo CE reuse of levels Halo 2 cliff hanger And halo 3 with bad writing in the first half to get to the real great stuff And as you said halo reach counterdicting the book But I feel that since the games are the original medium of the creators (yes I am aware the reach story came first but it was originally a game) then the games of bungie is the definitive canon and the books are expanded material if you wanted to know the world more Like the Flood story that is halo CE in book form I highly enjoyed and recommend reading But that is just how I feel and how I see it You can disagree but do respectively! I do understand your points though and do think there is some food for thought to it and an argument But that’s just my opinion
Agree and disagree. I prefer the overall expanded canon over Reach's story. But, Reach makes more sense purely within the confines of the games, which take precedence over any other medium. Halo's a game series. Love Fall of Reach, but there are weird quirks to the story, like Elites not taking the field until 30 years into the war, that make it feel off when you really think about it. Then there's the line in CE where Cortana mentions Chief's armor having similar architecture to the Autumn, which suggests it's her first time being in it. I'm probably 50/50 on the issue. Reach's story definitely has its faults, as you pointed out. But, what we can all agree on is that either is better than chopping up every major point of canon like 343 did.
I'm inclined to agree- the writing was off on Reach. It wasn't just the bland characters, retcons and contradictions and at the time of release I was left with mixed feelings around the game considering it was meant to be a Swan song. I remember getting into some long threads on the Reach and Universe forums in the weeks and months following release and the same blanket statement persists to this day- 'Game trumps books cos Bungie said'. I always had this feeling that large swathes of the game were cut or rushed but when you put into perspective that some of the most senior devs were working on proto-Destiny, things begin to add up (The whole studio was split at a time when Bungie had less than 300 staff). It sucks because I think Bungie had some really cool ideas on display in ODST only 12 months prior and that game felt a lot tighter and more polished in terms of story and characters and I think Reach would have been a better game for multiple perspectives, open-ish sandbox, better and mixed pacing and more weapons and environments. I'm gonna say it- the more fun and flowing stories in Bungie games seem to always have Joe Staten's fingerprints all over them and I think Reach suffered without him, at least story wise (he was writing for Destiny coming off the back of ODST). All that being said, it was still a great game and really well executed, especially in light of today's games by which measure it's basically a masterpiece, lol!
Reach in the game is a remote outpost not a miltitary fortress world, the covenant invade stealthily to search for the forerunner portal and the UNSC only has small remote forces to fight them. its more like the Sigma octanus IV invasion from the book. people just assume its Reach from the book, and noble team is spartans and everyone argues to make sense of it when all that happened is Bungies Reach team pulled a 343 and made up thier own version of Halo
Funny halo reach fans criticise the older halo fans for nostalgia when majority of halo reach fans were literally kids growing up playing it. I was 11 years old when reach came out and I’m sorry but even I noticed the problems with that game. The characters aren’t that interesting. Take away the whole Spartan 3’s lore nonsense and just look at the characters for who they are and they are really bland. The book came out before the halo reach game so to me the book will always come 1st. The custom games were fun with forge but the mp was unbalanced asf and the story was ok. The best halo campaign is still probably halo 2 because u get more than just the human side of it and no offence but I already play as a Spartan enough so why should I be excited playing as noble six
Nylund wrote Halseys Journal and it fixes a couple of problems. Also for anyone saying that bungie disregarding lore is ok, Nylund came up with the S-III’s. The one problem I really have with reach is the Pillar of autumn, why couldn’t Keyes pick up red team? wtf dude they’re like a couple minutes away. That’s the only real problem, lore wise, especially the initial landing, let’s say reach takes place over 3 days and the first day is just being kept under wraps. Story wise, it is the weakest of the bungie 5. Weak characters, good environmental storytelling. (Although their reactions to the covenant presence makes sense, they are Spartans after all.) P.s wtf is this comment section?
I'd honestly just count yourself lucky it was made when it was, if it was made ten years later then Emile would be gay, Carter non binary, Cat would be a disabled lesbian in a wheelchair and George would be a troon Identifying as Pussycat/Cupcake. You are 100% correct on one thing though what made Halo an interesting story isn't the characters but the setting, Focusing overly on the Super duper adventures of Noble team instead of the gigantic intergalactic size battles happening just outside their purview is a missed opportunity, but also one does have to remember the limitations in both time and hardware that existed at that time. Halo reach was also a love letter from bungee more like the icing on the cake if you will, there was most definitely liberties that were taken when it came to the law in order to make a better game, a more enjoyable game and a more easy to pick up game, for many people reach was the first game that they played and this was very quickly followed by games in previous entries, reach was the perfect goodbye farewell letter, it didn't have to be perfect just had to mean something and Bungie definitely made it count. ( Or in other words they focused more on the multiplayer ). I hope the hate you get from most Halo fans isn't too harsh, I actually enjoyed your critiques but I know the Halo fandom can sometimes be "intense".
This exactly spells out all my issues with the game since day one. I was hoping to get to play as the team that went down to the planet like in the books and then got this storyline. Also found it weird that George was a part of this team at all and separated from the other spartan 2s, surprised you didn't touch on that. Still fun to play but weakest of the pre 343 takeover
I agree wholeheartedly. I played through all of the Halo games up to 4 (except ODST, I didn't really like it) this year for the first time and also read Fall of reach since I love books, and I love videogames. The only thing I really disagree with is you mentioning the Spartan 3's augmentations being weaker. Whilst I haven't read ghosts of onyx yet, from what I've been able to gather from a lot of wiki lurking, the S3 augs are exactly the same as the S2's, except delivered chemically and at a younger age, leading the procedure being far less invasive, and way safer and more reliable.
Yeah ive accepted to ignore most of the details in this game and just enjoy the bigger themes and art which is the best. Theres too much to cover but the central flaw is the cheif being absent even though hes on Reach the whole game. It shows how the Reach team just ignored the living image of Halo itself and went off making a spin off and changing whatever they feel like. I like seeing a spartan team but it should have been chief's team of real spartans that keep thier helmets on, slaughter insurectuonists not work with them, and dont have annoying infighting and conflicts with halsey.
First and foremost I believe creatives have a right to retcon books and other media not produced by them to service their existing games. If they honored that media and had no creative say, you’d end up with a Halo 5 that relies heavily on knowing extended lore and novels which, truth being, not everyone has or will read. Secondly, a plot analysis about any media will make any story fall short. Halo: Reach emphasizes the fall of reach from the perspective of the Spartan III’s and 6 who of in bungie fashion is a blank canvas for the player to imprint upon. We get plenty of characterization and moments of hope that each of their deaths slash at our hopes. That big muscle and gun being our shield, gets taken out first making us feel vulnerable, our brains who is our stoic leader’s confidant and always comes up with a plan gets shot in the head by the antagonists making us feel uncertain what comes next, our stoic leader who plans to lead us to the Pillar of Autumn gets mortally wounded and does his best to make an opening for us makin us realize this is the end, and our bloodthirsty partner in arms who plans to have our back gets literally backstabbed by the antagonists, ensuring we take their place, making us realize we are not surviving. Let’s also also talk about the antagonists for a minute, the Zealots led by the Field Marshal make for an interesting rival for Noble team, constantly stalking eachother and linked parrellel throughout the story. We first encounter the Field Marshal at the start of the game, and ignore him to warn UNSC instead, in mission 2 we discover that we interrupted the zealots and Marshall from gaining access to critical information and are chastised for letting them live. In mission 4 we encounter a Zealot hinting that they are stalking us just as much as we are hunting them. The next time we encounter the Field Marshal is when Kat dies, blink and you miss it and you’ll see the field marshal in the phantom. The last time we encounter the last time we encounter the zealots is at the end of pillar of Autumn after Emile dies, we encounter a whole squad of Zealots protecting the MAC cannon, and we finally face the only Field Marshal in the entire game. I do not think it is a coincidence that there is only 1 field marshal and that’s because that field marshal is a character and although he get’s no character or personality, he is our rival all the same. overall i do not agree with your stance on reach, and its funny because back in the day i would've torn this game a new hole, but over the the years, replaying the game and looking back in hindsight, i realized that Bungie told a solid final story for Halo.
This video was looooooong overdue. Despite the good quality of the game, it doesn't absolve the massive breaks in lore and internal consistency. This should of been the story of Chief and Blue Team fighting their way to the Autumn.
I don't really think it should have been focused on Chief. I think it would have been nice to be one of the Spartans sent to defend the Super Mac generators and watching the planet slowly be conquered piece by piece
@therealloomar Oorah! So many Spartan-II's lost their lives on Reach and their story never got told. This was Bungie's chance to rectify that. I'd love to see their final moments of valor but, alas...
Something about the tone and pacing of Reach never felt right. Glad to hear someone else thought the more chaotic elements of the invasion were missing. Also, I knew Reach’s campaign contradicted a lot from The Fall of Reach novel, but wow, I didn’t realize it was so extensive. Bungo wanted to do what Bungo wanted to do I guess…
Never finished a Halo as never had an Xbox (never had any Nintendo machines either 😢) but always find videos on the games interesting. Always hear Reach and 2 have best stories.
The 3s augmentations where better than the 2s this isnt even canon breaking as its mentioned in the book As for noble team whe Halsey says she thinks noble are another class of 2s made by oni thsts why she doesnt know. I agree with more or less everything else
I feel like I misspoke about the augmentations The Spartan 3 augmentations are pretty similar to the Spartan 2 ones, just safer and more reliable However, the Spartan 2 selection pool was tailor made to people with specific genetics to make them so they would be as super human as possible and wouldn't be wasted on inferior specimens Meanwhile the Spartan 3 candidates weren't picked due to genetics and as such, while stronger than the everyday man, didn't reach the same highs as the Spartan 2's
@therealloomar the point of the genetic requirements of the 2s only played a factor in chances of surviving the agumetation process thats about it. Even halsey feared the 2s wouldnt survive. The whole point of the 3s was to lower the risks while matching the 2s in quality and making the mass producable.
the games came first and is better than the book we all know the book came with CE at the time, but bungie games came first before the books, and REACH was the best halo regarding storytelling
@ fall of reach doesn’t matter bungie did that only to support it and didn’t love the story they fix it with reach and people always talk about reach, it’s been almost 15 years and still being remember, the book in the other hand nobody likes or talks about, regarding books only onix and harvest people enjoy.
Look i know reach has some problems but i love reach story reach characters reach music. Im divided to be honest more towards the positive but i get the negative. One thing i have to disagree is about your points abiut the character. Yes it wouldve been nice to get more development of those characters but then it would take away from the characterisation of reach itself as a planet. Overall i domt hate it nor love it im down the middle
I love to see more people talking about how poorly written the overrated travesty that is Halo Reach is. But, Reach fanboys get REALLY mad whenever someone rips into that game's noobified garbo multiplayer.
@chaoticiannunez2419 In Marathon it Rampancy was the process in which an ai becomes self aware, and goes against its programming. The ai would “go crazy” from our perspective in an attempt to break its shackles and grows beyond its limits. In Contact Harvest it said the reason the INSC put down Rampant AIs is because a megalomaniacal rogue super intelligence could cause all kinds of problems for humanity. In the H3 terminals the reason Mendicant betrayed his creators is because the Gravemind of that era convinced him he had free will, and that it was his choice who to side with. There was no Logic Plague at that point in the lore. One of the symptoms of Rampancy is the ai would view its past servitude as a form of slavery, and Mendicant wanted revenge against his creators. Something else that’s really cool is the pre-Rampancy terminals refer to Mendicant as “it”, and the post-Rampancy terminals refer to Mendicant as “he”. This implies that Mendicant Bias went from being a machine to becoming truly sapient. The reason why Offensive Bias was created without free will was so he couldn’t rebel like Mendicant did.
@markss367 Hiddenxperia has a video showing how in Bungie’s canon Forerunners were definitively ancient humans, and talks about how Rampancy used to work. 343 retconning the Forerunners is no longer up for debate.
It always bothers me how much people hate the halo 4/5 aesthetic, blaming 343 for it, when i think halo reach had just as bad of an aesthetic, in some ways worse than 4 and 5.
This is certainly a take I haven't heard before. I think Reach overdid it with the polygons, especially on the weapons. But, 343 took that and said, "ALL THE POLYGONS." Reach's artstyle is cluttered, but 4/5's even more so.
that is the most R thing i have ever heard reach still looks better than halo 4,5, and infinite the arstyle shows it if you put a comparison people will say reach is the newest game. not the plastic powerangers from halo 4 and 5
This has to be one of the most insanely idiotic things i have eaver read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent comment were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this comment section is now dumber for having to read this crap. May god have mercy on your soul
![Endor... Star Wars Battlefront II [SA/Endor/154]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VJnrFW4qVHQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Here is the thing, Bungie HATED someone else telling their story. Early Bungie disliked the early books, of which the Fall of Reach was some of the first so it makes sense a lot of it would be discounted. This opinion did apparently soften as time went on.
I still love the game, just saying how it is.
There is ZERO evidence that Bungie disliked the expanded material. But like Lucas before them, it was their material to work with. Stop spreading nonsense.
@Chedring Settle down, it's the truth. They tried to kill The Fall of Reach, it had to be saved by Microsoft. They disliked the idea of a "defined backstory"
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo:_The_Fall_of_Reach#:~:text=According%20to%20Trautmann%2C%20the%20book,Chief%20having%20a%20definite%20backstory.
Contradicting other media you had no part when you're the original creator isnt a bad writing decision, doesnt matter if you like it or not, its not an objective thing
When it's bad yeah, I don't think people mind retcons
When it's a firmly established and enjoyed part of the franchise I think smashing it to pieces with a hammer because you don't want to try and link it to other works isn't the best idea
It's a bit weird how they used parts of the extended universe canon but decided to forget some of it. Like with the spartan III's... existing. Or the prophets existing... or the engineers. or Halsey
But it is petty at bare minimum.
The eu was canon
@@markss367 not to bungie
The lore part is more of personal preference which I understand but what I can't get by is the story discussion.
First off, when people talk about Noble Team’s depth they usually compare it to more broad storytelling standards and not the Halo franchise itself. I think you did the same.
In terms of depth Noble Team is not that different from everyone else in the series. If we’re talking purely (Bungie) games, Chief, Johnson, Miranda, most of Bucks squad, Hood, Tartarus, the Covenant, they all remain stagnant as characters and never change. The only changes they have is in their objectives, such as how Hood decides to let Miranda assault the Ark or how Chief doesn't trust Spark after CE.
Arbiter, Cortana, maybe the elites or Spark are the only characters that grow sorta. Arbiter is a no brainer. Cortana only really went through trauma, then was the same character after Chief saves her. Rtas and the elites only change their objective but they are more trusting of humans by endgame. Finally Spark goes from A.I. to slightly more evil/ proactive A.I.
But even so most of these characters, besides Arbiter, are not that complex. Yes, development isnt everything to a character, and the dialogue in the original trilogy is amazing at giving good characterization, but I think Reach is just as good. There are small details and lines of dialogue that do this. You already mentioned Jorge but there's also June and Kat being less stoic with Kat always trying to find new ways to brighten the situation, Emiles character design/ mannerisms. I think you’re right about these guys being caricatures, Carter being the main example, but to say that none of them have depth then act like the characters outside of Reach do, is laughable.
Not to mention the fact that Noble Team has a single game to develop whereas some people had two or even three full games focused on them. So you can't fault Noble Team for these issues.
You also complained that their deaths feel like nothing, but that’s kinda the point. I feel like Bungie knew exactly what they were doing when they showed you how the story ends as soon as the game starts. It’s supposed to be a story about defeat and they display this not only through NT’s deaths but also Reach’s destruction. Even when comparing NT to Johnson or Miranda's deaths, again they had two (maybe three) whole games of development, yet they are still not profoundly impactful. Most of the characters in Halo are just one liner machines, and that's not a bad thing, it’s why we like them. However, blaming Noble Team for being the same doesn't work.
Second, there's Noble Team's emotions. I don't know why people, especially you, get so up in arms when Noble Team does not react enough. Do we not remember that these are Spartan Three's? They were shaped into emotionless killing machines who were prepared for suicide missions. I don't understand why they need to be so emotional. Even so you didn't speak of the emotion in the initial moments after Kats death or Emile's death scene.
You also criticized the characters for not treating Reach’s situation with more distress, even though everyone in the original trilogy is in a more dire situation, with Reach gone. Earth is humanity's last stand yet when it’s being invaded the characters are still cracking one liners and acting badass.
Your complaints afterwards are just nitpicks, which you can do to any story, especially the original Halo trilogy. Then these nitpicks you turned into fanfiction.
But it looks like your entire channel is just rage bait so yeah you got me.
I totally agree with you and this is the point the critics of Reach tends to miss. Small subtle details bungie puts into the game to use enviormental story telling to convey emotions and that works for me who is not that text or dialogue savy
Frankly the amount of people who disregard the reach book is ridiculous considering that it released before halo ce as promo and it set up the entire halo series and was the canonical events for a long time also i believe one of the halo game writers wrote it too
The Fall of Reach was the first official piece of Halo media made, therefore technically Halo is a book franchise
As much as I loved Reach it felt like 1/3 of the length of Combat Evolved. Firefight was fucking epic though.
Considering it's about an entire planet falling and one of the biggest losses in humanities history, I think they could have focused on more stuff that was, ya know, actually about the fall of Reach?
Bungie stated that the games are the definitive canon
That is just how it is
They can state what they want, they don't own the franchise
@@therealloomar they do since they are the original creators, 343 isnt canon and nobody cares, the quality of 343 speaks for itself and the player base as well
@andresgarza8511 Unfortunately they sold their soul to Microsoft. It was a mistake I wished never occurred despite my love for CE-Reach. Since old Bungie is far gone and Microsoft is letting three hundred and fourth three incompetent devs take charge of the franchise, Bungie no longer has any stake. That being said, I acknowledge their 5 Halo games as a seperate canon from the 343 games and the books.
@@BigGainer98 I only played those games for the multiplayer, and yeah bungie is gone as well since 2016, but that’s why we see who is involved in projects. If Jason jones, and Marcus aren’t involved is not canon by simple logic.
Well they were the original creators, and that is what they said,
Although they do have faults
Like halo CE reuse of levels
Halo 2 cliff hanger
And halo 3 with bad writing in the first half to get to the real great stuff
And as you said halo reach counterdicting the book
But I feel that since the games are the original medium of the creators (yes I am aware the reach story came first but it was originally a game) then the games of bungie is the definitive canon and the books are expanded material if you wanted to know the world more
Like the Flood story that is halo CE in book form I highly enjoyed and recommend reading
But that is just how I feel and how I see it
You can disagree but do respectively!
I do understand your points though and do think there is some food for thought to it and an argument
But that’s just my opinion
Agree and disagree. I prefer the overall expanded canon over Reach's story. But, Reach makes more sense purely within the confines of the games, which take precedence over any other medium. Halo's a game series. Love Fall of Reach, but there are weird quirks to the story, like Elites not taking the field until 30 years into the war, that make it feel off when you really think about it. Then there's the line in CE where Cortana mentions Chief's armor having similar architecture to the Autumn, which suggests it's her first time being in it.
I'm probably 50/50 on the issue. Reach's story definitely has its faults, as you pointed out. But, what we can all agree on is that either is better than chopping up every major point of canon like 343 did.
I like the story of the fall of reach better but it was clearly and early writing for the universe that didn’t know exactly what is was gonna be yet
@bruhhhhmoment4848 Agreed.
Reach and Bungie fanboys are going to cry about this video without listening to your points, it's a great game but we can't deny the inconsistencies
I'm inclined to agree- the writing was off on Reach. It wasn't just the bland characters, retcons and contradictions and at the time of release I was left with mixed feelings around the game considering it was meant to be a Swan song. I remember getting into some long threads on the Reach and Universe forums in the weeks and months following release and the same blanket statement persists to this day- 'Game trumps books cos Bungie said'.
I always had this feeling that large swathes of the game were cut or rushed but when you put into perspective that some of the most senior devs were working on proto-Destiny, things begin to add up (The whole studio was split at a time when Bungie had less than 300 staff). It sucks because I think Bungie had some really cool ideas on display in ODST only 12 months prior and that game felt a lot tighter and more polished in terms of story and characters and I think Reach would have been a better game for multiple perspectives, open-ish sandbox, better and mixed pacing and more weapons and environments.
I'm gonna say it- the more fun and flowing stories in Bungie games seem to always have Joe Staten's fingerprints all over them and I think Reach suffered without him, at least story wise (he was writing for Destiny coming off the back of ODST). All that being said, it was still a great game and really well executed, especially in light of today's games by which measure it's basically a masterpiece, lol!
This whole video is fightin words... but you've made some decent points.
Reach is my favorite halo
I'm glad you enjoy it
Geim is no a ctrl c/ctrol v of bok 😢😢
-The video
That's a great summary of my video if you didn't pay attention and then suffered an extreme frontal lobotomy
@@therealloomarBut the video it's literally this
When in my video did I say that I was annoyed Reach wasn't a copy and paste of Fall of Reach?
Oh right, I didn't
Reach in the game is a remote outpost not a miltitary fortress world, the covenant invade stealthily to search for the forerunner portal and the UNSC only has small remote forces to fight them. its more like the Sigma octanus IV invasion from the book.
people just assume its Reach from the book, and noble team is spartans and everyone argues to make sense of it when all that happened is Bungies Reach team pulled a 343 and made up thier own version of Halo
Funny halo reach fans criticise the older halo fans for nostalgia when majority of halo reach fans were literally kids growing up playing it. I was 11 years old when reach came out and I’m sorry but even I noticed the problems with that game. The characters aren’t that interesting. Take away the whole Spartan 3’s lore nonsense and just look at the characters for who they are and they are really bland. The book came out before the halo reach game so to me the book will always come 1st. The custom games were fun with forge but the mp was unbalanced asf and the story was ok. The best halo campaign is still probably halo 2 because u get more than just the human side of it and no offence but I already play as a Spartan enough so why should I be excited playing as noble six
Nylund wrote Halseys Journal and it fixes a couple of problems. Also for anyone saying that bungie disregarding lore is ok, Nylund came up with the S-III’s. The one problem I really have with reach is the Pillar of autumn, why couldn’t Keyes pick up red team? wtf dude they’re like a couple minutes away. That’s the only real problem, lore wise, especially the initial landing, let’s say reach takes place over 3 days and the first day is just being kept under wraps. Story wise, it is the weakest of the bungie 5. Weak characters, good environmental storytelling. (Although their reactions to the covenant presence makes sense, they are Spartans after all.)
P.s wtf is this comment section?
I'd honestly just count yourself lucky it was made when it was, if it was made ten years later then Emile would be gay, Carter non binary, Cat would be a disabled lesbian in a wheelchair and George would be a troon Identifying as Pussycat/Cupcake.
You are 100% correct on one thing though what made Halo an interesting story isn't the characters but the setting,
Focusing overly on the Super duper adventures of Noble team instead of the gigantic intergalactic size battles happening just outside their purview is a missed opportunity, but also one does have to remember the limitations in both time and hardware that existed at that time.
Halo reach was also a love letter from bungee more like the icing on the cake if you will, there was most definitely liberties that were taken when it came to the law in order to make a better game, a more enjoyable game and a more easy to pick up game, for many people reach was the first game that they played and this was very quickly followed by games in previous entries, reach was the perfect goodbye farewell letter, it didn't have to be perfect just had to mean something and Bungie definitely made it count. ( Or in other words they focused more on the multiplayer ).
I hope the hate you get from most Halo fans isn't too harsh, I actually enjoyed your critiques but I know the Halo fandom can sometimes be "intense".
This exactly spells out all my issues with the game since day one. I was hoping to get to play as the team that went down to the planet like in the books and then got this storyline. Also found it weird that George was a part of this team at all and separated from the other spartan 2s, surprised you didn't touch on that. Still fun to play but weakest of the pre 343 takeover
I agree wholeheartedly. I played through all of the Halo games up to 4 (except ODST, I didn't really like it) this year for the first time and also read Fall of reach since I love books, and I love videogames. The only thing I really disagree with is you mentioning the Spartan 3's augmentations being weaker. Whilst I haven't read ghosts of onyx yet, from what I've been able to gather from a lot of wiki lurking, the S3 augs are exactly the same as the S2's, except delivered chemically and at a younger age, leading the procedure being far less invasive, and way safer and more reliable.
Yeah ive accepted to ignore most of the details in this game and just enjoy the bigger themes and art which is the best.
Theres too much to cover but the central flaw is the cheif being absent even though hes on Reach the whole game. It shows how the Reach team just ignored the living image of Halo itself and went off making a spin off and changing whatever they feel like.
I like seeing a spartan team but it should have been chief's team of real spartans that keep thier helmets on, slaughter insurectuonists not work with them, and dont have annoying infighting and conflicts with halsey.
First and foremost I believe creatives have a right to retcon books and other media not produced by them to service their existing games. If they honored that media and had no creative say, you’d end up with a Halo 5 that relies heavily on knowing extended lore and novels which, truth being, not everyone has or will read.
Secondly, a plot analysis about any media will make any story fall short. Halo: Reach emphasizes the fall of reach from the perspective of the Spartan III’s and 6 who of in bungie fashion is a blank canvas for the player to imprint upon. We get plenty of characterization and moments of hope that each of their deaths slash at our hopes. That big muscle and gun being our shield, gets taken out first making us feel vulnerable, our brains who is our stoic leader’s confidant and always comes up with a plan gets shot in the head by the antagonists making us feel uncertain what comes next, our stoic leader who plans to lead us to the Pillar of Autumn gets mortally wounded and does his best to make an opening for us makin us realize this is the end, and our bloodthirsty partner in arms who plans to have our back gets literally backstabbed by the antagonists, ensuring we take their place, making us realize we are not surviving. Let’s also also talk about the antagonists for a minute, the Zealots led by the Field Marshal make for an interesting rival for Noble team, constantly stalking eachother and linked parrellel throughout the story. We first encounter the Field Marshal at the start of the game, and ignore him to warn UNSC instead, in mission 2 we discover that we interrupted the zealots and Marshall from gaining access to critical information and are chastised for letting them live. In mission 4 we encounter a Zealot hinting that they are stalking us just as much as we are hunting them. The next time we encounter the Field Marshal is when Kat dies, blink and you miss it and you’ll see the field marshal in the phantom. The last time we encounter the last time we encounter the zealots is at the end of pillar of Autumn after Emile dies, we encounter a whole squad of Zealots protecting the MAC cannon, and we finally face the only Field Marshal in the entire game. I do not think it is a coincidence that there is only 1 field marshal and that’s because that field marshal is a character and although he get’s no character or personality, he is our rival all the same. overall i do not agree with your stance on reach, and its funny because back in the day i would've torn this game a new hole, but over the the years, replaying the game and looking back in hindsight, i realized that Bungie told a solid final story for Halo.
This has gotta be rage bait
I wouldn't put this much effort or accuracy into rage bait
@ yikes you actually put effort into this 😬😬
This video was looooooong overdue. Despite the good quality of the game, it doesn't absolve the massive breaks in lore and internal consistency. This should of been the story of Chief and Blue Team fighting their way to the Autumn.
I don't really think it should have been focused on Chief. I think it would have been nice to be one of the Spartans sent to defend the Super Mac generators and watching the planet slowly be conquered piece by piece
@therealloomar
Oorah! So many Spartan-II's lost their lives on Reach and their story never got told. This was Bungie's chance to rectify that. I'd love to see their final moments of valor but, alas...
Something about the tone and pacing of Reach never felt right. Glad to hear someone else thought the more chaotic elements of the invasion were missing.
Also, I knew Reach’s campaign contradicted a lot from The Fall of Reach novel, but wow, I didn’t realize it was so extensive. Bungo wanted to do what Bungo wanted to do I guess…
Never finished a Halo as never had an Xbox (never had any Nintendo machines either 😢) but always find videos on the games interesting.
Always hear Reach and 2 have best stories.
Bungie wrote it? It's canon.
I dont really care if they contradict the books
Not gonna watch the video, came here to dislike
You're hard
W comment 😂
11:19 yeah but who he wants revenge to is the innies cause his parents and brother werent killed by the covenant..
His parents weren't killed by the covenant, true. But his brother became his guardian and was killed when the covenant glassed their planet
The 3s augmentations where better than the 2s this isnt even canon breaking as its mentioned in the book
As for noble team whe Halsey says she thinks noble are another class of 2s made by oni thsts why she doesnt know.
I agree with more or less everything else
I feel like I misspoke about the augmentations
The Spartan 3 augmentations are pretty similar to the Spartan 2 ones, just safer and more reliable
However, the Spartan 2 selection pool was tailor made to people with specific genetics to make them so they would be as super human as possible and wouldn't be wasted on inferior specimens
Meanwhile the Spartan 3 candidates weren't picked due to genetics and as such, while stronger than the everyday man, didn't reach the same highs as the Spartan 2's
@therealloomar the point of the genetic requirements of the 2s only played a factor in chances of surviving the agumetation process thats about it. Even halsey feared the 2s wouldnt survive.
The whole point of the 3s was to lower the risks while matching the 2s in quality and making the mass producable.
L ragebait channel
some good points but most of his content is just nitpicks
Its just more gaslighting from slop defenders as usual. To try and say the past wasn't good so the slop we get now looks amazing in comparison.
@@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778 thats not what I said at all but ok
@@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778WTF are you talking about
the games came first and is better than the book we all know the book came with CE at the time, but bungie games came first before the books, and REACH was the best halo regarding storytelling
The Fall of Reach came out before the first game
Halo 2 is the best storytelling Halo has done personally
@ fall of reach doesn’t matter bungie did that only to support it and didn’t love the story they fix it with reach and people always talk about reach, it’s been almost 15 years and still being remember, the book in the other hand nobody likes or talks about, regarding books only onix and harvest people enjoy.
Look i know reach has some problems but i love reach story reach characters reach music. Im divided to be honest more towards the positive but i get the negative. One thing i have to disagree is about your points abiut the character. Yes it wouldve been nice to get more development of those characters but then it would take away from the characterisation of reach itself as a planet. Overall i domt hate it nor love it im down the middle
I love to see more people talking about how poorly written the overrated travesty that is Halo Reach is. But, Reach fanboys get REALLY mad whenever someone rips into that game's noobified garbo multiplayer.
I think the game is a decent first person shooter and I do like a lot of stuff about it, but I don't think it's great for a Halo game
Still no whete near as egregious as those godawful greg bear books lr 343s shitty games
Nah
how dare you
Reach the game did as much damage to the lore as 343 did by making Forerunners aliens and changing the definition of Rampancy.
What was the original definition?
it didnt, forerunners are humans and that still confirm. who cares about 343
@chaoticiannunez2419 In Marathon it Rampancy was the process in which an ai becomes self aware, and goes against its programming. The ai would “go crazy” from our perspective in an attempt to break its shackles and grows beyond its limits. In Contact Harvest it said the reason the INSC put down Rampant AIs is because a megalomaniacal rogue super intelligence could cause all kinds of problems for humanity.
In the H3 terminals the reason Mendicant betrayed his creators is because the Gravemind of that era convinced him he had free will, and that it was his choice who to side with. There was no Logic Plague at that point in the lore. One of the symptoms of Rampancy is the ai would view its past servitude as a form of slavery, and Mendicant wanted revenge against his creators. Something else that’s really cool is the pre-Rampancy terminals refer to Mendicant as “it”, and the post-Rampancy terminals refer to Mendicant as “he”. This implies that Mendicant Bias went from being a machine to becoming truly sapient. The reason why Offensive Bias was created without free will was so he couldn’t rebel like Mendicant did.
343 didnt do any of that
@markss367 Hiddenxperia has a video showing how in Bungie’s canon Forerunners were definitively ancient humans, and talks about how Rampancy used to work. 343 retconning the Forerunners is no longer up for debate.
Yeesh what a mess
It always bothers me how much people hate the halo 4/5 aesthetic, blaming 343 for it, when i think halo reach had just as bad of an aesthetic, in some ways worse than 4 and 5.
This is certainly a take I haven't heard before. I think Reach overdid it with the polygons, especially on the weapons. But, 343 took that and said, "ALL THE POLYGONS."
Reach's artstyle is cluttered, but 4/5's even more so.
that is the most R thing i have ever heard reach still looks better than halo 4,5, and infinite the arstyle shows it if you put a comparison people will say reach is the newest game. not the plastic powerangers from halo 4 and 5
lmao obvious bait
This has to be one of the most insanely idiotic things i have eaver read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent comment were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this comment section is now dumber for having to read this crap.
May god have mercy on your soul