Understanding Smart Electrical Panels | Ask This Old House
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- Опубліковано 4 кві 2022
- In this video, home technology expert Ross Trethewey and master electrician Heath Eastman teach host Kevin O’Connor about this new wave of electrical technology.
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Heath Eastman and home technology expert Ross Trethewey teach host Kevin O’Connor about smart electrical panels. The two pros show Kevin how this new wave of technology is more about optimization than maximization, giving users complete control over their electrical system.
Smart Electrical Panels are the New School
Everyone has an electrical panel in their house, and the design hasn’t changed much in decades. However, the newest technology to come along is smart technology-enabled electrical panels. While these systems can stand alone or piggyback off of a standard panel, their features make them an attractive option for energy-savvy homeowners.
Smart Panels Focus on Load Management
Load management is the name of the game for smart electrical panels. The technology to monitor how much energy the home is using isn’t new, but the ability to manage how it’s using that energy is. These panels utilize relays to control circuits, and they report back to a smartphone app. Not only can the user see how much each circuit is drawing, but they can also turn each circuit on or off.
They Optimize Energy Storage Systems
In the case of a generator or solar-fueled battery system, smart electrical panels allow users to make informed decisions. In the past, these energy storage systems were often controlled by a separate panel of circuits, and the users couldn’t switch circuits at will. And, for those that weren’t, the backup system would power the entire house, which could deplete batteries too quickly or draw too much on the generator to be efficient.
Rather than energizing an entire house with a backup generator, the user can choose which circuits turn on and off when the generator kicks on. This lessens the load and creates safer transfers.
There’s a Panel for Every Scenario
There are panels for existing electrical systems and those designed for new installations. The retrofit panels install after the existing electrical panels. Installers can expand the system with as many of these panels as necessary. For new installations, the smart panel takes the place of a standard panel, with main breakers and relays integrated into one clean unit.
The integrated units are also a good idea for anyone who plans to upgrade to a large solar system or generator in the future.
Where to find it?
Lumin panel provided www.luminsmart.com
SPAN panel provided www.span.io
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Understanding Smart Electrical Panels | Ask This Old House
/ thisoldhouse - Навчання та стиль
Automated controls are the future/ present state of our working world and definitely have great advantages in the right situations. However, after doing electrical maintenance for an airport and a school district, it is clear to me and my coworkers that troubleshooting/ servicing electronically controlled services is a far bigger headache. I'm not an old guy", but I know the old wisdom of having fewer "moving parts" still holds true. We're one lighting strike or solar flare away from the stone ages.
It's not just that.
It's controllable from the internet.
Someone at the electric company decides they don't like you chasing the bob cat away from your kids and a hack later; you have no power and no one is able to figure out why.
@@scotttovey chasing the bob cat away from your kids?
My biggest issue with something like that is must be connected to the Internet. That's a no go for me, I already hate the idea that my "smart bulbs" don't work if I lose my internet. Can't imagine loosing communication with my entire electrical panel.
@@Soligniari
I looked at a device a few years back that you plugged a USB drive into and it connected to the local network.
It looked promising but upon further research I learned that you can't configure the device without first logging into the companies internet site.
In addition to a way to log into the device, a reputable developer would have designed it so that you plugged the device into a network port, then plug the USB drive into it, and it automatically shared the drive even if the network was not connected to the internet.
Needless to say; I didn't buy the product.
@@scotttovey the truth is, companies can make "smart" products that communicate within your local network.
But in the personal information mining age that were in why would they?
It's honestly a shame.
Cause security is always an afterthought with the majority of these companies.
The problem with Span is they require the use of their cloud, and they don't have a direct, locally-accessible REST API I can use to integrate it into my custom home automation. I suspect the Lumin is similar (I've sent an inquiry). I wish more people would insist on full offline functionality, and full customizability.
Thanks for bringing this up! I'm on the engineering team at SPAN, and we're actually working on local APIs. Most of us are electronics hobbyists and energy nerds in our free time, and a lot of us are dog-fooding the SPAN Panel and already have it installed on our own houses. There are several active internal projects running local APIs that have been demonstrated to the rest of the company already. We understand the SPAN Panel isn't like a security camera or cat feeder that stops working someday, you grumble and find a new one...this is literally built into your house and everything we do on the engineering team is framed in building a product that will be useful for decades. Local API is a big part of that and is important to us, especially the energy nerds on our team who have a SPAN Panel and want to integrate it into their own home automation systems.
The other thing a friend pointed out is that the Span panel doesn’t retain its switch state across power outages. Is that correct?
@@OriginalJetForMe It uses latching relays and can sense the current relay state, so by default a full power off (rare as those are with storage) doesn’t turn anything on or off.
@@Grymac That is good news, as I am getting a Span panel installed next week as an addition to my solar install. As a big Home Assistant nerd an open and local API is essential for proper home management. There are way too many stories of servers suddenly being turned off and devices just stop working or responding, if Span goes out of business today it would be little more than a regular panel with a pointless computer and relay system behind it.
Is there a timeline when local access would be available, and would your team work to have an open API for Home Assistant integration?
I still like the Genny panel. It was $200 installed (electrician doing final connections), I have most of my breakers feeding through it and manually control what gets fed when power is out. I am the 'smart interface'. I know what is there, I have 2 spare breakers in event of a failure, I can swap in or out what my alternate power source is, etc. I watched the episode and replacement follow-up episode where Rich placed and replaced the Hot Water heating source because it failed, and the company had gone out of business. I learned a valuable lesson. Stick to standard parts, easily replaceable, not something that can be destroyed by the inevitable lightning strike.
I could not agree more.
If the system would work it would be nice, but the added failure points that are not easily able to be bypassed make me highly apprehensive.
For most of the country if you lose power you are also going to lose Internet which most likely would hinder your control of the system assuming it didn't fail 5 years after you put in it when you really need it.
@@tmx1911 Yep, for the first time this year, in a 30 minute outage, our internet feed also failed (cable service). Power was restored at home, but no internet. Would have been bad if there wasn't the ability to control power or systems. (I also have everything internal, no cloud services used)
I like money
The good thing about the smart panel I see is being able to monitor the power drawl. Say your HVAC fan starts working harder because of a dirty filter, you can watch the amp drawl increase and know something is wrong.if the smart board ever gets hacked or one of the relays fails you can always straight connect it and bypass the board. No sweat, and the added flexibility is a nice bonus. I like it.
@@jeremiahfoster5810 ... HVAC fan draws LESS when filters are dirty because the fan moves LESS air. BTW, DRAWL = an accent.
I'm in the process of installing the second one, "Span Panel" in my 50 year old townhouse. Installation will be about $1500. Part of that will get help from fed tax credits as tax people have already confirmed qualifies under IRA (2022), for max of $600. With my PV and batteries, I think this will make a significant difference.
Very entertaining video. Glad to see it at the start of the day
I was hoping to see the innards of the fancy panel.
Very helpful video. Thank you.
If we invested as much in infrastructure as we do safeguarding against failures of infrastructure, we wouldn't need so many complicated, expensive, decentralized fixes... and it would benefit everyone, not just the richest among us.
Agreed. The people most impacted by power failures are also the people that can't afford these. These are cool guy toys for the wealthy homeowner.
KISS ... Keep It Simple & Straightforward ... so anyone can fix it, not just the original installer.
This is amazing. gotta look into this
I'm somewhat warry of having my home tech linked to the internet, wireless or apps. because they can be turned off by the company in question, have the data stolen or even get hacked.
yeah but they still have to break in through your wi-fi to "get in" right
@@awaara24 depends if your system is connected to the outside internet or not. because then someone could hack in from any place if they really wanted to. or steal your data from whichever company service your using.
Yeah, were there is a will. There is a way for someone. Not matter what it is, this is a old true saying.
@@awaara24 If you are controlling and looking at stuff through a phone app, that's almost surely not true.
Or ten years later, the company goes bust, the app goes dark, and you're SOL.
Ok! Nice things. Thanks.
Thanks for the video it's great
thanks for the video
Thanks to the author for the video
instructive video
Nice material presented in this video.
Great concept
Долго искал эту информацию, спасибо, что поделился, отличное видео
Great video
Nice video!
great video
I'm concerned the first retrofit panel had no actual circuits to reset manually. How do you reset it when the circuit running the wifi trips?
Great concept. Also
Nice panels, nice video
Good to see
Great video!
very interesting video...
Given the few times we have lost power for more than a day, it would take 300 years for a payback on this. As a corollary caution, I purchased a two stage AC unit with a special electronic motor. Supposedly , I would save money over time. The motor control crapped out after five years. The cost to replace was my potential savings for more than 10 years. Love technology but it can bite you back.
Big increase in complexity, headaches trying to replace that custom control board 25 years from now, difficulties with phone apps not being updated when a company goes out of business, I can almost guarantee subpar/outsourced software where security is tenth priority, meaning a remote attack could start flipping your circuit breakers- all for a slight improvement in functionality where you can monitor control circuits via a phone app. I'm an electrical engineer who loves technology when it makes sense- this really doesn't seem like a good idea for stuff you want to work for the next several decades. Hard pass.
I really wish this video had touched on more of the tradeoffs and considerations instead of just being a showcase for the latest gadget to hit the market.
Very valid points here
@@2024301 It makes more sense to have outlets or the appliances have the smart tech. Having it built into an electrical panel sounds like a huge issue when a company decides to end of life support for it.
Or this might be all local control a la be able to fold into home assistant.
Over the air updates (OTA) solves this and improves everytime engineers discover a new idea / fix
@@twentystwentythree ota is awful. The last thing I want is my appliance auto updating to some doofy intern code that was pushed accidentally and now my system is bricked. Also ota doesn't matter if there's no company to push it.
excellent
Thank you.
Very interesting video.
Interesting video.
thank you for the video
Very interesting video
Good job
I'm sure everything works as planned except for when the board fails, app fails, etc... Unless you absolutely need a smart panel I would stay conventional. You can easily control it yourself and it's easy to troubleshoot.
Yup. And a $2k installation. Cheaper just to leave everything on. lol.
I wish this existed in a way where it was still useful off the internet. We don’t know if this company is going to be around for 30 years, providing software support for this panel.
Leviton has a similar panel. They use smart breakers that can be monitored and controlled by a hub. If a breaker fails you replace it in less than 10 minutes. If the hub breaks you replace it. This all in one smart panel looks to be a pain to fix.
ok dinosaur
@@gdubb420gw You sound like a kid that doesn't consider the overall reliability of anything. That's cute.
Thanks for the video
Installed the Leviton Smart Panel and Breakers in our Off-Grid Home to help monitor usage. Wish it had the real time usage though. It only shows totals for different periods of time. I can turn the breakers off but not on.
UPDATE: the Leviton ap updated recently and now does show real time usage in Watts. I say realtime but is delayed around 60 seconds but stil better than nothing.
Which I trust as more of a safety feature. I'd much rather have to go manually re-energize a circuit then have it show on, but need the software to activate another part.
Intrsting video...i like it
It is very interesting!
Спасибо
very nice video
Good luck!
Definitely an interesting product.
respect
Nice video
Very good
I looked with interest.
What can we turn off with this system that we can't just turn off at point of use? Hot water heater? Furnace? Air conditioner?
Very interesting
Cool video
good video
Very interising site, video. Okey, like
Wow, perfect timing! The day I decided to search for "smart panel critical loads" was the same day this video was published. Must be a sign!
Great concept.
Super nice
good project
Very useful information
I would highly recommend🤩
Recommended protection , lightning, over voltage, under voltage, ect.
nice video
nice video very
very good
Good project
nice invention
That looks beautiful and all. But what happens down the road if and when the company who makes the product goes out of business? The cool handy dandy smartphone control goes out the window because it probably runs through the company's servers somehow. And then what happens if one of the relays needs to be replaced and once again, if the company went out of business? Now what? You've got a pretty fancy $3500 breaker panel that's no different than the regular panels.
Not just out of business, but the product no longer being supported by the manufacturer due to being replaced by a new product, or just abandoned due to company acquisition. Also software has a very short life cycle, so it will probably not be updated after 3-5 years from first release.
@@LegoTux yeah, I can't imagine these panels will make their way in too many homes.Their high costs aren't worth the possible risk of the product not being supported down the road.
Cool!
Great concept. Also, think about if we had wireless electricity which really different from solar energy.
Good, very good
very useful and interesting video
SUPER!!!///
You can monitor the power through them,
i understand
Love that the wifi is higher than fridge in his example
GooD brooo!
Nice
Automated controls are the future definite an interesting product.
That's useful
technology is very good
everything is very interesting
Definitely an interesting product, but I would only consider it if it allowed local control + API, so I can either control it from my phone manually without internet access and tie it in to my existing automation system.
I also have this panel
I'm sure everything works
Great concept. Also, think about if we had wireless electricity which really different from solar energy. !
Smart
very good nice
Do any of these smart panels have an integrated display where you can do manual adjustments in the events an app goes down?
The minutes someone criticizes something by saying how they have not changed in so many years, I know a sales pitch is coming right after. Things being old did not mean they are not optimal. It you disagree go try to put square wheels on your car, you know "because the round ones are really old technology."
You can tell Ross is Richard's son only by his moves and the way he explains things.
Good
Great information thanks guys
nice
Can I use this as an electric reader for a 3 unit single family home that has 3 sub panels but one main panel (one electric bill) to bill back per unit for the electrical use?
Спасибо, что поделились этой информацией.
Cool
good
With smart panels all being built with wifi to cell phone management, what is being done to secure that communication link? Are the manufacturer's apps being created with a built-in VPN?
It's cool for sure, but I question the return on investment and the security. Seems like you could control your circuits just as easily by manually flipping circuit breakers and using a generator interlock, or a suicide cord back feeding into your welder/electric dryer. Obviously, some folks would prefer a safer alternative, like the generator interlock. I bought my interlock kit on amazon for $80 and installed it myself in about an hour. Cool stuff, but just doesn't seem practical in my eyes.