Seplos Polo: This battery has WHAT built-in? First look at the new Seplos BMS V3.0
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- The #Seplos #Polo #Battery Series is one of the safest batteries you can buy right now. It has several stages of protection and safety.
Not only the outside design looks very fresh but also the inside has some more new features, we haven't seen in any other battery so far. From the brand new Seplos BMS V3 over the 2P16S LiFePO4 pouch cell battery to the built-in fire extinguisher. Yes, that's right, each battery has its own fire extinguishing device for additional safety!
We are doing a full review on the outside and inside of the battery, having a discussion about the pouch cells Seplos is using and also having a first look at the new Seplos BMS V3, the software and mobile app.
Seplos Polo Battery Series, 51.2V/100Ah/5.1KwH
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10 Year warranty is pretty meaningless given how much it would cost you to ship it back to China. Plus will Seplos even exist in 10 years?
You ship it back to supplier in your country derpderp simpleton.
And what is this warranty worth? Will they still have a spare battery in 10yrs time if one goes kaputt?
I think Seplos should put a vertical hinge on the back. I bet they'll want to keep the front plain.
Even then, the breaker is at the back.
Like# 161 - the Cherry Picker is back!
Only 160 slow today…
IT'S A CRANE!!!!!!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia 🤔😉🤪
Lol, Battery crane.
Question, do you have a good suplyer for lifepo4 280 - 320 AH cells ? Thank you
I have some linke on my website which are linked under each of my videos.
Low side switching is usually preferred for high currents because N-channel mosfets have lower power dissipation than equivalent P-channel mosfets due to N-channel mosfets having a lower Rds_on than their P-channel counterparts.
Good to see you on here upnorth. Always learn something from you when you post. I had the privilege of having you comment a few times on Will's forum in regard to long term storage of my LifeP04 battery in cold weather. Actually, your comments and resources you provided for me convinced me to leave the battery at the cabin during the cold weather months turning off ALL loads and leaving the SOC at around 50%. They did fine. No adverse effects that I can see. Capacity is the same, charges the same etc.
Really respect your knowledge. Thanks for sharing it with us.
@@jws3925 Thanks! Just glad I could be of help. (YT seems to remove some of my comments, so this is the second time I try to reply to you - sigh...)
This. It makes perfect sense to switch the negative with the MOSFETs. However, the circuit breaker, which is externally accessible, not automated and is a disconnect / protection for the output of the overall pack, should be switching the positive.
@@CollinBaillie Absolutely - fuses/breakers go on the positive.
You are absolutely correct. N channel have all that you stated and they are also more predominate in high current switching applications. I work with switch mode supplies everyday. As well as PWM audio class D. All of which have switched to al N channel mosfets. BMS on the negative and fuses go on the positive.
Hello Andy,
is v3 BMS compatibile with 10E?
I mean, can we connect them togheter using RS485 ports? Do they communicate?
Spoiler alert, not it is not as far as I tested it. I will do a bit more testing soon but, no coms between V1/V2 and V3.
I really enjoy this channel Andy. I relate to you in a way Prowse and Poz don't quite get to, although I fully trust their opinions. You go Leagues further into the fun stuff for us nerds. Keep it up buddy! My plans to go solar in my own Box Truck/Mini Home begin in ernest this fall, and I'm so excited!!! GL to you and yours, Andy... Patrick
Yeah, I cannot watch a 7min review of a battery. There is far too much to explore and discuss. Even too much for one video, so there will be more testing with this battery. And the BMS of course!. The V3 BMS!
How can a company get so many things right and so many things wrong???
Chinese mentality...
Andy, I was extremely bothered by the fact that the "battery" label you put on the crane was crooked.
I feel you 😂
That was on purpose. Like a wooden sign nailed onto a wall 😂
As a traditional Seplos = it has potential, BUT... ,
it's not a finished development for practical use...
(I expect it will be similar for the new BMS with the new software.)
All the problematic things you listed should be improved and changed by Seplos.
It would definitely need a prismatic serviceable battery cells.
Basically, just the box itself is interesting from a visual viewpoint,
and even that would need to be changed and finished for better everyday use.
Yes, I agree. More work is needed.
The Jaki batteries seem to tick a lot more boxes...
After all the LG batt fires and recalls I’m not 100% happy using these yet.. they also have much shorter cycle life and prone to thermal runaway.. I do like that the size to power is much smaller thou so less weight, but as you pointed out if there was a cell that needed replacing it’s not easy and not good as renewable with lots of waste
I guess, you can take the battery apart and re-use the working cells in case one gets faulty. The question is though if they are going to do it or it goes to either landfill or recycling.
It is a bit like with welded terminals, great from one perspective but not ideal from a maintenance point. The Jaki batteries are great therefore, ticking a lot of boxes.
about the backplates: by just replacing the hooks with some magnets would do the trick
Isn't it about 4 times the size of a normal 100ah battery with built in bms?
No, about the same for a 48V battery.
Your wife's right! They're rather stylish cases.
Hahaha, yeah, safety concerns aside, the case is great.
Pouch batteries are a deal breaker for me! Shame, but they looked too good to be true! Pass!
The New BMS Studio software (battery monitor) looks good but i was not able to connect to a v2 10E BMS. There is also a new Firmware for the v2 10E bms 16.6 but i found no documentation about the changes.
Nope, the BMS Studio is only for the V3 BMS, I'm afraid 🤷♂️
16.6 is what I always had with the V2 BMS. Was there another version before that?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia by delivery I had the 16.4
@@andreasreder9560 Maybe I have the 16.4 as well. Now that you write it here, I'm not sure...🤔
Another great video. Here they state 100A you need 3 AWG not 4 AWG (USA). Great looking battery. I want one that allows me to use EVE 280AH cells inside. And of course the breaker on the positive, and the back panels to swing out, and the soft touch on/off on the front. And I agree that the connections need to change. If you use a busbar on the back the charge and discharge will be like your DIY battery from the top down. While this is small for discharging the charging will be a bit slower for the bottom battery. How many can you stack? I also thought we were moving away from the 100ah batteries as you simply need too many. To replace your DIY battery you will need at least 10 of these. This adds more complexity. Seplos seems to like 1 step forward 2 steps back. I hope they can continue to move forward. Great box designs, good not perfect BMS. I find they are a leader in these, yet they have not blazed a trail that we all think hey that is perfect. Again thank you for what you do Andy!
They always safe one the cable size. The Gobel power battery uses 2AWG cable for their built. And, why not!?
I guess the password issues is likely down to users Vs installers. I suspect they expect the installer to set up the battery from their laptop and then the customer can just view it in the app.
Most of the time you don't want customers being able to change settings. Advanced users like yourself will be happy to change settings via a computer anyway.
Well, if that is the case, make a password for the user and a different one for the installer with elevated access. My Fronius system works like this.
Except if the batteries go on a thermal runaway, they will generate their own oxygen in such an event, and CO2 will may not put it out. Nice that they are thinking about these issues though.
Although, I admit that it would certainly help contain any fire and is better than nothing 🙂
Someone here left a comment and explained what stuff is in the device. It's a halon replacement, no CO2 as I assumed.
Electrically speaking, it doesn't matter which battery terminal is being switched since the metal chassis must be grounded separately anyway and neither DC terminal should really be directly attached to chassis and system ground but should remain isolated. The negative terminal is also the terminal where the charge originates from since electrons will flow from the negative terminal through the load to the positive terminal. All that generally matters is that you pick positive or negative to mount your switches and fuses and keep it consistent throughout the entire system.
Yes, from a technical perspective. Although regulations say, switch the positive and leave all negatives connected as common ground.
I would be concerned, as noted in the video, if the negative is switched, the whole system might find a path to ground via one of the data cables. Those definitely aren't rated for the kind of currents involved
Laser cut a square hole in the back panel for access (with rounded corners of course)
I have a hole punch. Do I punch another hole for the reset button and the network ports? Undecided 😁
I am impressed with the clean look, but I am disappointed with the functionality of the new packaging.
1. They definitely need an On/Off switch on the front.
2. The circuit breaker location is completely useless. Not only is it difficult to get to in the event of an emergency due to the panel covering the back, once the battery is positioned against the wall and the casters are locked down, how the hell do you get at the back in the event you need to get to the CB.
Maybe a better location would be on the side. It would not detract from the appearance/presentation.
3. The design allows the use of a busbar to join the batteries, but a M6 screw and such a narrow terminal, it will make it difficult to use a busbar that will carry the combined current of all the batteries, particularly if you are using 3 or more batteries.
4. The specification says the charge temperature is 0 -> 40 degrees C. Considering that charging will occur during the day when it is likely that temperatures could exceed 40 degrees C. If you consider that the temperatures being experienced around the world have exceeded 40 degrees in many locations and it has also been predicted that in Australia we may also experience these high temperatures, how will these batteries deal with these high temperatures?
Thanks for your email and comment Chris. Great points!
I didn't see the temp settings for charging the battery. I have reached 40° in my battery shelf last year.
I love your videos!
But there is no such thing as “negative 10” when talking about temperature.
Celsius at least... but you're right.
I have an older LG Chem 10kw battery, can I plug one of these together and achieve 20kw
Can you try daisy chaining several brands together, will they communicate with each other?
Yes, you can operate batteries in parallel, if they have the same voltage and similar chemistry.
No, they most likely won't communicate together. RS485 is a standard (physical layer) they all use, but the protocol is different.
We need a video comparing PYLONTECH US5000 with this Seplos (in general), Venus OS V3 also has official pylontech support.
What would be the comparison about?
Not a fan of it either, pouch cells are on the cheap side, I wouldn't want them in my battery, switching the negative is a no-go for a pro system, you want a stable, reliable ground reference. I see the reason for doing it, the MOSFETs are cheaper, the pouch cells are cheaper and the life expectancy is shorter, so you will buy sooner a new battery.
The backing plate and the M6 terminals are not good, yes you can add a bus bar, but how you connect the outgoing wires, thanks to gravity, I would expect a wiring trunc on the bottom to connect to other systems, nothing there. They look neet as design object, but as soon as you hook them up you have the wires comming out on top.
Inaccessible breakers is a no-go, also shut down of the bms on low power. I admit it makes sense, but I would allow 1% of the capacity to keep the communication of the BMS alive for a month or so, for remote analysis and servicing before it shuts down to protect from deep discharge.
Great sum-up. Thank you.
Hi Andy, funny how you absolutely refused to look at seplos last year and now you are beta testing all their products.
They are not bad, but as everything chinese seems to be feature rich but unpolished, affordable but not very reliable, in English but poorly translated etc.
If it does what others don't and you can make it work and in a process save a few bux without getting screwed, it well could be a good deal. Just don't expect them to honor a 10 years warranty, it is a lie...
I kinda suspected what will come when looking at their products. Same with the QSO battery. A half ready battery thrown on the market to make a few $$$.
So far, the Jaki batteries seem to be the ones...
I think you may have done seplos customers a disservice - if you have convinced them to make those Victron parameters user set rather than calculated by the BMS.
The charge voltage should be calculated and the charge current and discharge limits also should change depending on battery state.
They do change once the battery gets full or when one bank fails in a parallel setup. It will be in one of the next videos.
Seplos as a nice design but not impress with the non serviceable cells and the BMS so far not impressive. thanks for showing us.
More to come.
Switching the positive line is standard, but switching the negative line is actually more efficient and cheaper. Your choices are: (1) Switch the positive with a P-channel MOSFET, (2) Switch the negative with a N-channel MOSFET, or (3) Have a charge pump on the circuit board to generate a voltage higher than the positive, and switch the positive with a N-channel MOSFET.
P-channel MOSFETs have a higher drain-to-source resistance (Rds) than N-channel MOSFETs. That's why N-channel MOSFETs are more efficient. N-channel MOSFETs basically just work better... they have significantly better electron mobility. So, for example, high-end switching power supplies will actually use N-channel MOSFETs to switch both the high side and the low side but it takes a special circuit called a "bootstrap circuit" to make the high-side N-channel MOSFET actually work.
But you nailed the potential problem. If there is an alternative sneak path to the battery negative, switching the negative doesn't break the circuit. Sneak paths to the battery negative are a lot easier to mistakenly create than the sneak paths to the battery positive. However, fully enclosed batteries with no exposed "real" battery negative can utilize negative-side switching safely.
Yes, thanks for this explanation. Up North and Personal said the same below about the N- and P-Channel FETs.
You really need to ensure your coms cables are all isolated so there is no issues if the BMS turns off. It could cause a cable fire otherwise.
I miss the noisy planner in the background!
I've got this on MP3 and will play it again in the next video 😂
@@OffGridGarageAustralia :D
I think this POLOs are not designed for DIY Nerds any more.
It is obvious that they point to well suited customers with pretty Houses, Teslas, Apple devices and so on. These customers primary need a pretty locking system to show to their visitors.... ;-)
I think these guys will not schwitch a pack on/off or doing any custom settings.They would call a service tech to do that.
You mean the lazy people with money whom are content with simplicity? I agree.
@@joshuacatron2
Yes, something kike that.
I think seplos want to get in business with the companies that sell and mount the batteries into the customers houses.
I don't see the point in repeating after you the flaws you noticed. But I see another one, BASIC: the price of sixteen blue cells with a capacity of 304 Ah, plus BMSs, plus mounting accessories is SURELY lower than those beautiful batteries. And this calls into question the economic sense of buying these beautiful Seoplos.
Looking from this perspective, one can at most consider the features of the BMS, but also from a purely academic point of view - the detachable minus puts it outside the circle of interest of those who want to build the battery themselves.
The only undeniable advantage of evaluating these batteries, as for me, is that I learned that there are such small internal fire extinguishers. Priceless information. THX!
Yes, I agree with your comment.
Well, I really like the Seplos MASON DIY boxes and think this is the way to go if you want to build you own battery but not use a wooden crate or build a shelf yourself and shield it with aluminium sheets.
You get a good metal box, the BMS and all accessories to build a good working battery.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Indeed: Seplos MASON boxes are an almost ideal solution for someone who does not know, as I do, a man who is skilled welder-locksmith, ready to make boxes for individual banks exactly according to my requirements for a very moderate price. I think, better then Seplos, at least for me. :) But theirs BMS is interesting proposal!! Especially the one that DISCONNECTS PLUS!
Now the funniest: the concept with the display and accompanying keypads and the on-off button and reset (through a small hole) and protection (preferably Noarc with remote shutdown function!) ON THE FRONT PANEL I invented as a first idea. Being very surprised that ALL manufacturers (even Victron!) construct the battery box so that everything is on one side. But all connections on the SIDE of the battery. Why on the side? Because physically disconnecting one battery box, for example for service purposes, when the connectors are at the back in a multi-storey system would be very cumbersome! Because convenient service access and systematic monitoring at regular intervals with an infrared camera are of paramount importance. In addition, on the side you can easily add a neat metal cover so that the cables do not create the impression of chaos.
To be completely clear: my battery room will be built so that combustible materials will be limited only to the insulation of certified cables and certified Noarc electrical apparatus. (Let's make no mistake: there are no non-flammable plastics, only those with a much higher flash point.) My friends say: You are hysterical. I say: the elimination of risks is the main goal of the designer. And minimizing the risk of fire in a room where very thick tens of kilowatt hours of energy are accumulated is the MOST IMPORTANT goal. According to the principle: fate rewards the prepared (and I always add in my mind: and punishes the reckless!).
That's why I was so delighted with small internal fire extinguishers, that's why the boxes for individual battery banks will be made of steel, fire-resistant tiles on the walls and fire-resistant doors, with a MANDATORY large fire extinguisher (15 - 20 kg extinguishing agent for electrical devices, of course!) next to this door! Nothing can ignite there and nothing can sustain the fire there. But even if one of the cells wanted to make an ugly surprise, there is a remedy in the form of a fire extinguisher. One whose important element of operation is the intensive cooling of the extinguished object.
Have you ever seen an industrial high-current electrical switchboard and/or battery room? This is more or less how it is supposed to look in my performance: almost empty, only batteries boxes and electric busbars. At the entrance, the main power switch and always fire extinguisher.
This is the pattern I am aiming for. It is not without reason that they look like this, it is not without reason that there are restrictive regulations, most of which are fire safety issues. More than one house in the world has burned down due to faulty electrical installations. In the case of the battery room, you must not lose sight of the fact that the currents in the battery room are (or can be) 100 times greater. That means 100 times greater risk.
Greetings and thanks for the excellent work in the field of sharing information and experiences. Everyone will find something very interesting for themselves.
Hi Andy! 1) It's cheaper and simpler to disconnect the ground. You can use N-MOSFETs instead of P-MOSFETs. N are a little more efficient, but the simpler/cheaper angle is what the makers go for.
2) I bet if you jet forward 5 years most of these rack-battery systems will ALL be pouch based. I don't see much need for swapping out single cells. If the batteries are good quality none are going to need replacement until they're all swirling the drain. Besides those who are happy to over-pay for pre-built scrawny capacity rack mount batteries are not the type users to dig into a battery to do a cell replacement anyway. Here come the pouches! (yuck) Three of my 400Ahr batteries are pouch type...
Thanks, Keith. So it's about the price and cost again...
And good point about the pouch cells and pre-assembled batteries.
I assume that the fire extinguisher won’t work well. If you have a thermal runaway of this type of cells, you don’t have a big problem with oxygen, but a problem with thermal capacity. So you have to use a extinguisher component which is capable to dissipate the generated heat for hours. Just a shot of CO2 will not do much. Just my 2 cents …
LiFePO4 generally does not suffer from thermal runaway: you have to introduce an additional heat source to make it happen. Just puncturing a cell, or whatever, does not cause thermal runaway, even if the venting electrolyte can be set aflame with an additional spark. This is likely why the extinguisher is there. If these were NMC, it definitely would be useless, since that chemistry does experience thermal runaway easily, and no CO2 extinguisher can do anything about that.
It is not CO² based, see my reply above.
Very nice presentation. Like always bringing up all the negative impressions, and of course some positive ones... Overall i do not like it. Using this type of cells, not having access to each, not good! Why to not use a double breaker to switch +and-! The power connectors are not what we expect from Seplos, poor. Cover is primitive! No power off button bear display... Overall this is not at all an evolution, is a going back product!
Hey, what about the nice case? These rounded corners.... hmmmmm...
Seplos BMS Welcome you to gardening with Andy.
Not going to happen! My wife has her greenhouse, I have my battery shed and I'm not putting geraniums in there.
I appreciate the way you highlight the positive and the negative features equally, whether it's the hardware or the software, it makes for a very informative video.
Thank You.
Thanks a lot for your kind feedback.
Andy what do you do with all the batteries. At some point you can't possibly use all the capacity you accumulating.
I am jealous!
Do you want some?
I have some plans though...
I like the case look, but that is about as far as it goes. And, you showed their pouches didn't even meet their 100ah specifications. And, you are right, the units do need On/Off switches immediately available on the front. As for the panel covers on the back, they could be left off but that would eliminate a safety factor. You identified a lot of the things that I also noticed. The Seplos Batteries look good, but I think I'll hold off from buying them for the moment. I can put other types of batteries in a rack with a door and get the same type of safety factor, be able to separate and pull whole battery with less trouble, and replace a bad cell when its needed. I buy my equipment using these characteristics...reliability, availability, maintainability, and dependability, not how good looking someone has painted their Yugo. Thanks for the review.
If their V3 BMKS would have a decent and working balancer which could handle the battery, the cells would have been top balanced and we would have reached the 100A.
I'm editing the Seplos V3 BMS video right now. That will be an interesting discussion.
Hi Andy, a bit off topic but I wonder if you could help me. On the JK-BMS 4S-8S edition there is the RS485 socket. I have googled RS485 to try and buy a plug to connect to this socket but cannot find the plug type for this socket. Do you know the plug type that I am looking for? Thanks.
I have read it somewhere in the DIY forum either here
diysolarforum.com/threads/rs485-to-usb-cable.47837/#post-684039
or here
diysolarforum.com/threads/hankzor-jk-bms-with-screen-and-power-button.33267/page-5#post-491377
If not, ask Up North and Personal. He knows...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thankyou.
You can use the 'MX' part of the breaker to remotely trip the breaker.
You can also use the 'OF' part of the breaker to individually alarm via the dry contacts.
What you can't do is remotely turn back on so the wall once again comes into play.
Of with both features are not connected. It's just the main cables in and out.
The first priority must ALWAYS be 100% practical functionality for every day and only then the design styling,
if the opposite is the case, as here, it is not good.
Could not read data of the small fire extinguisher please could you add info for this device.. or a teardown 😁TIA
It's in the description. This is all the info I have myself.
i think the back panels would be better if magnets held them in place
Great idea!
I'm not a big fanboy of the pouch cells, I totally agree with the on/off button/switch on the front and the use of bus bar connections for connection between units.
1 step forward but poor execution on obvious connection issues and agree with all Andy’s comments
As usual Andy great thoughts and initial review. Great looking battery pack, but as you point out some disappointing practical functionality issues. Strikes me as a glossy marketing package with some serious serviceability issues. Lost me at pouch cells I'm afraid.
They could never explain why they went with pouch cells🤷♂️
And the other flaws I pointed out... not so great.
I like the Jaki battery more as it ticks all the boxes.
23:14 Those "Tesla powerwalls" look like they have Seplos branding on them.
Switching from switching the positive to switching the negative probably removed the need for a high-side n-FET driver and high-side current sense.
On the communication ports, I would think that they would be galvanically isolated - otherwise turning off the circuit breaker in one of the batteries would cause one of the wires of the RS485 cable to become a current carrying conductor, which isn't going to end well.
Looking at a post on the Victron forum, the unswitched negative requirement was for old MultiPlus-II inverters etc, where presumably the VE.Bus interface was referenced to the DC negative.
can we expect the same adventure you had with Neey, the Neey 1 to 4 journey ?
Seplos POLO needs a lot of work and does not pay off, even quite expensive for just 5 kWh.
Do not forget the exploding shipping fees for 2 or 3 batteries of these compared to 1 big and only one shipping which they again hide, not chance to get an instant quote.
Not convinced, might be getting this V3 if that would be good.
Not convinced about the pouch story and fire extinguisher.
Pretty stupid to claim pouch is safer and then add a fire extinguisher of questionable quality cause we have not seen it working, no video nothing.
And considering the burning of the roro ferry with the EV that caught fire where the extinguishing did not work they simply should think twice:
#1 get a TÜV cerrtificate if and how it is working or in which limitations
#2 produce a video in the laboratory or better ask the TÜV for such test video that it extinguishes a burning 5 kWh LFP Pouch cell battery
Simple as that cause without that I do not trust them since the german deye scandal where deye had ignored to build the product they had certificate for.
Who knows if that extinguisher is working and who and how it has been tested, so go ahead to the TÜV to get all things done.
What a huge amount of work for you till that Polo thing will be proofed by you and called BOMBENSICHER.
Try to explain to the community that term I have no clue, but part of the endless Zollstock bombenfest series.
You will have fun with the polo and the next evolution I bet cause the current shape is NOT GOOD AT ALL, quite the opposite and even the new BMS is dancer of 2 steps for and 1 step back.
While most of your comment has valid points, I'd like to say Li-NMC cells (as are typically used in EVs) are a different consideration to LiFePo4.
This in no way discounts your question as to the effectiveness of the extinguisher. But LiFePo4 should never see a run away situation like Li-NMC.
Some other comments here also discuss the role such a small device may play. Could be worth reading a few of them. They could be replies to comments so you may need to dig a little. 😊
Yeah, not sure what the extinguisher will do in an event. Apparently, there is no gas chamber in it, it works differently...
25mm2 cable has max capacity of 85A . 35mm2 = 95A 50mm2=125A . So the cables size are wrong and it doesnt mattee if they are silicon , plastic or rubber isolation . Its a Chinese mentality to downsize AWG / mm2 due silicone isolation because it can handle higher temps and its totaly wrong . Do you like the cables get 60 or 70C celsius ? I dont because cells get higher temps just by ambiant temp that is increase by the cables....
Anyone who has this battery in a Cabinet-104 from Seplos i'm looking for the sieze but can't find this anywhere.
Hi andy, from not sunny at all UK.
Can you help me with the seplos studio software please.
I have usb on com3 and rate of 19500 but what are the other parameters as i can't get it to work.
The password for wireless connections not made public makes perfect sence. As changes can be made wirelessly on bluetooth where wired requires access to your battery. Think someone changing settings from the road in front of your House or RV. I'm in a boat yard i see many bluetooth connection to systems around me with default passwords.
If you want a clean and tamper free setup, put the covers on....if you want access to terminals, breakers and reset, simply leave them off.
My thoughts..... Polo's could've/should've been shortened to POS......
Looks nice, but a little pricey for kWh
in all battries and inverter the negative is switched and positive is always connected because under load the negative wire of dc current get higher temp mostly than positive. and flow of electron is from negative to positive, its my observation.
Sorry but I'm a bit on the fence on this one, compared to your other models;
AFAIK pouch-cells are often used as a cheaper alternative compared to prismatic cells?
(read: lesser durability, lesser capacity (as you have shown), more difficult replacements etc)
Not having the password for the App on the phone, is plain silly to me.
Than the fire-extinguisher part with only Chinese on it, likely no international certifications?
I would than definitely need to see it work in real-life before trusting that. Seriously.
And the M6 connections should be M8, and allow for bigger lugs, IMHO it is a very odd cost-saving move.
Several good steps in the right direction but, for me, not too convincing. Sorry!
BTW, the BMS turning off because of a low-voltage situation is a big no-no for me with regards to safety!
The moment the BMS is off that protection is not there anymore and thus you only have the fuse, circuit-breaker and the fire-thingy.
Seplos had some great ideas but badly executed them.
The BMS didn't turn off because of a UVP. I sent them the logfiles from the BMS and the voltage never got lower than 42.35V in my test.
I have since upgraded the FW on the BMS but am still not sure what has happened.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Probably some (perhaps hidden?) parameter that caused that "conflict" and made the BMS turn-off. Good to know you can update the firmware and that they do actually release updates for it. Hopefully they welcome your feedback and work-out the various issues, problems and desires ;-)
Otherwise it will strengthen my believes one can best build & roll your own using one of your favourite BMS-ses & DIY kits.
BTW, I am a wee bit surprised they (also) seemed to have dropped the dry-contacts output (too). Although the price seems quite attractive, could be a hard one to beat, perhaps even when doing a DIY.
It seems like its not serviceable. and it looks like the stack will be limited in current based on the size of the last terminal. which kind of limits it maybe... unless you break out leads from each which kind of negates the safety benefit i think. Or maybe im just stuck in the past :)
Don't the batteries have there own internal oxidizer? Will the extinguisher help?
I'm afraid of pouch cells. I don't trust them!
Andy, these look great and have some beautiful design in stacking but........ They look like they still are in the Prototype stage. Great Video............YAR!!
Yes, I would not have put them on the market like this either...
negative pole on a battery is where there is a source of excess electrons, the positive is electron deficient
You do a great job with your evaluations. I am still looking at setting up a solar system in the next 12 months.
Looks great, but unfortunately, the cells are not servicable. What is the expected cost of the battery shipping, etc? Does the software have a reset function in case you screw up the settings?
RS485 & CAN require an end of line 120 ohm terminator resistor. How is this set on the battery?
Is the BMS available separately?
Keep up the good work.
Thanks for your feedback and kind words.
Yeah, a lot of open questions. I will address some in one of the next videos about the BMS V3.
CAN works for me without termination. I use the 3m CAN cable from Victron and had no problems so far. If the cable length is short, I guess it is OK. The BMS definitely have a termination on-board.
I wish that they'd be transparent about the prices of their products.
Now just make a version of this kit for diy with that bms for the standard cells. I would buy a few kits and source my cells.
You may want to hold on until the BMS video 😉
Hello, I watch a lot of your videos and I also use batteries with BMS SEPLOS that I assemble myself. A question: what do you recommend as a method to balance the cells when they are received and used for the first time?
Thank you for your feedback and watching my videos.
If I buy all cells from one source, I would just install them in series and connect the BMS. Charge them up and decide later if they need any balancing. Either the BMS can handle that balancing or your can temporarily install an external active balancer.
The reason for a non public p/w for wifi, is that anyone can change your settings, where on your computer.. they would have to enter your home to get to your computer.
Well, I can just change the inverter protocol with the app without any confirmation...
Very cool Andy. Huge design improvement in several areas, but having the main breaker burred behind a panel in the back of the unit rather than on the front is not my thing.
Yeah, the breaker is a big concern.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia The other concern I have with many of these systems is that if breakers with small contacts with minimal interrupting force on those contacts are rated to interrupt thousands of potential amps and won't weld closed on a major short circuit? I've seen industrial AC breakers rated at 50,000 amp interrupting capacity have one or more contacts weld closed and cause a panel fire.
Most breakers are intended for overload protection rather than short-circuit interruption, my preference is always to have a fuse for short-circuit protection, especially in something intended to be operated in a home or living space rather than a detached garage or out-building.
Some may argue that the BMS is a second safety for short-circuit, but they are solid-state switch that can fail closed rather than open under short circuit.
Last month, a neighbor asked me to inspect his expensive e-Bike that had it's wiring literally vaporize and its flame-retardant plastic battery box catch fire due to a short in a battery connector. The Bike was charging in his garage under his bedroom. The ebike Battery had built-in Battery Management System board that failed to prevent the massive short circuit, that resulted in a dangerous and catastrophic fire. That bike had a Li-Ion rather than LFP battery, and as such, my neighbor is lucky that the battery pack cells did not catch fire which could have placed his home and family at risk. Yet another example in support of my contention for fuses as a safety design element in high-current battery applications.
Great fire extinguisher concept, would be nice to see this as a stand alone product for wider battery community...is there a maker name underneath it?? Loved that you talked about access to breaker at bottom if stack, niggles & design issue's!
I left a link in the description where you can get one. Not sure how efficient they are though for such a battery. It's more for a small cable fire, I guess...
Pouch cells are a lot cheaper 😅
The APP can be used by anyone easily. So they might be afraid, that inexperianced users do mistakes.
But I think it should be public nontheless.
Always some nice supprieses and new tech at your chanel...that is sooo good!
Thanks, my friend. The app allows me to change the inverter protocol with one click and no confirmation 🤦♂️
Even while swiping up and down, I accidentally switch it to something else without noticing. A few minutes later, the Cerbo started complaining 😄
Hi Andy and thank you again for this video, it's interesting to see the evolution of some manufacturers. Yes the design is nice, but many others are doing almost the same thing now.. concerning the choice of push cells, I think only economical for them, but not sure that they will benefit the end buyer? currently there are so many of them making battery packs, that the competition is really hard!! about the automatic fire extinguisher system, for me it's a gadget, and sincerely I think it doesn't particularly give confidence!! on the contrary because the average buyer, could think? it can catch fire!
This is my opinion on this Seplos news battery pack Polo!
As usual your videos and these comments are perfect and impartial! and that is important. Thanks Andy!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Always appreciate and looking for your feedback.
Yeah, the fire extinguisher is more a gadget. Maybe OK for a small cable fire. But would you rely on it? Probably not.
The product is missing some important key components and is not ready for market yet.
from what Ive just seen I 100% agree with all your findings
for me, having an easy acessable way to turn off each battery is a must. not only for testing but for safety.
also, I have a feeling the balancer is going to be no good and the best way to fix it will be to install an NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY inline as well, seems using the wiring thats there already will be the easiest way
also, I'm sure it would of gotten to 5.1kwh if the cells were all fully charged because the balancer was doing its job better
The balancers are always the weak points of these BMS. If they would have 200mA, it would be actually useful. But here...you won't believe it 🤦♂️
All we need is a victron BMS!
or a NEEY BMS 😉
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hmmm. For 1000 Dollar/Euro or more? Maybe they would understand what is necessary.
Thank you for showing us this beautiful and stylish new battery, however, like your good self, I prefer to be in charge of the accumulator in fact I have just received two Seplos BMSs and expecting 16 304Ah cells for the construction of at least one of them to start with in addition to the 100Ah already in the system. As far as the fire extinguisher I'm not worried because I will construct a large one for the solar shed also feeding directly onto some components based on what I used to build for my competition Porsches. Thanks for sharing, I must admit that it really does look the part.
Yeah, DIY is still the best option, I believe.
Andy this Polos battery system needs more R&D then release it to market. Seplos engineers should of sent you prototypes to work the bugs out first.
Love your videos & have learned so much about Lifepo4 batteries/cell design from you. You & Will Prouse are a great influence for the DIY battery builder folks like myself. Thank you so much & keep the videos coming.
I always tell them that: send me the pre-sales model so I can give feedback.
There is a lot of cultural difficulties as they think it's already good enough. It may satisfy the Chinese market but exporting it to the world... It's not great most of the time.
Im not a fan of the switch at the back, for a clean install it would most likely be close to a back wall, levelled and off the castors, which would make access to the reset and switch had to access. it wouldn't have been hard to design a recessed front switch and reset button at the design stage.
Yep, a small push button and the reset switch at the front already makes a difference.
Thanks for a great video Andy, was looking forward to it.
A few of my thoughts:
1. Agree with the lack of the on/off button at the front.
2. I think the terminals are intended to be used with busbars, as you stated, but even if you stack the cables, the sides will support them and prevent damage to the terminal.
3. I think it is intended as more polished, home use / on display battery. That's why all the connections, breakers, and reset buttons are in the back, and it also explains the three types (rack,wallmount, stackable).
4. In the event of emergency, the battery will shut itself down and / or trip a breaker. When you get around to it, you will address the issue accordingly. That's why I don't think it's meant for tinkering. Rather set and forget type a battery.
Also the crane you got is more commonly refered to as a hoist (folding hoist), cranes are usualy bigger and engine/motor powered, but it is not wrong per se.
Btw: any idea what the price is going to be?
Thanks, these are great points.
BUT. It's a crane! 😉
They should hire you as advisor so the software would be good from the very moment they publish it.
If they would listen to me, they would have the perfect BMS and would be market leaders. But they don't. I think it's a Chinese thing.
I have mixed emotions about this battery. It looks sleek and clean for sure. Love the fire extinguisher as well! I do like that the cables can be hidden but at the same time, these batteries shouldn't be set up in sight really. I definately agree about the problems you pointed out. No switch on the front. The breaker should be on the front for emergency access as well. But I do not agree with breakers and fuses on the negative. Always kill the live wire. Ground is just a ground. Definately not the best terminal to work with either but they are more user friendly compared to those special connectors on the other batteries though. And as for the pouch cells, that is a massive NO for me. They seem to be the most unstable and prone to issues. Still love to see companies are trying different things though!! And always enjoy watching the German Aussy man!! 😁👍🍻 Thanks for keeping us all in the loop for the latest and greatest!!!👏👏👏
Great comment, thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts 👍
Hi Andy, I'm wondering how much battery capacity you have so far in your 48volt system excluding the battery shelf
These are just test batteries which come and go being connected to the SPAT Calibration Centre.
I don't know, it probably over 100kWh.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia that's quite big capacity
@@vlapr0571 Only a bit is connected right now, but once finished, I hope to have 100kWh permanently connected for the off-grid system. I still need more solar though...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I understand that
Agree ... safety issue with the breaker access. It would be nice with a smoked plastic cover that you could lift up and have access to breakers and resets
And easy to clean for the missus if the battery is in your living room 😂
All I know these manufacturers take note when Andy does a review and for the good too🇦🇺🤙🇦🇺
And I'm providing a lot of feedback their way as well. Sometimes it works, like with the NEEY.
Looks really nice. The wheels are a nice touch as well.
Too bad about the poorly reachable components and reset switch, but this also has advantages when someone is cleaning or watering the plant on top.
I stopped counting the times switches on my audio setup were accidentally pressed, and even the speakers have some damage.
Cleaning live charge wires, circuit breakers and reset switches is not good. So this system also has a high WPF next to it's high WAF.
Yeah, I know what you mean. It is build in a safe way but a bit too safe in some ways.
I would not like a battery in my living area (and it is not allowed in AU anyway), so the WPF is not too important.
hi andy i also have 2 packs in // with it's bms3.0 i'm disappointed because i can't exceed 53.3v in load + your rs485 connecting cable why is it in the middle? on your master battery next to the victron cable? thank you for your answer andy
Thanks Patrick. It depends what RS485 adapter you have. Only their newest one (apparently) works in both RS485 ports on the back. My older one (came with the MASON box) works only with the first RS485 port. I'll explain this in the BMS video soon.
Ok thank Andy for the france 🇫🇷
The price is competitive, but the shipping from the who knows where most likely be to much for me.
Get a quote and compare... Let us know.
That a nice cherry picker!
…Paul made me do it… 😅
Boooom Team 😂😂
Yes, BOOOOMMMMM 💥
I recommend to buy wind turbine to use the wind to charge your batteries . I wish to you the best luck
OK, will do. Thanks.
At least the boxes look smaller than the giant Seplos 48280L box I've just put in the recycling shed, that thing was HUGE!
Not comparable. The MASON is 280AH, this one is only 100Ah.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I wasn't saying they were, just joking about the sizes of the boxes all this stuff comes in 🤣
"They give you 10 years warranty so they must be confident nothing will happen" *or* they don't expect to be in business in 10 years. Lack of repairability should never be excused.
Has anyone here tried to make a warranty claim on any of their products? Do they stand behind their warranty or try to avoid paying, particularly if it's an expensive claim, like having to replace a whole battery pack because of one faulty cell if they can't be replaced individually?
Can we use the new software on the older 10E BMS?
By the way, did you see my email about constant voltage charging on the 10E Seplos BMS?
Software not compatible with 10E
MARCOOOOOOOOOOO?
Yep, explore the unknown.
I found another fault: the lid holds the whole weight in case of transportation with lift or hands.
That's not a problem. It's 'only' 49kg, so the lid is fine. It has 20 screws around it to hold it together. One would be enough to hold that weight.
34:00 cut a hole in the plate to reach the breaker
Heya that looks like a very nice battery
The reason why all the cheap everything always switch on the negative line is that N channel mosfets are way cheaper and more reliable than P channerl. That is one of the reasons why Victron and others like them are so expensive. It's not just the parts but the circuitry itself that is more complex.
Hence why the negative. Too easy.
Anyway.
With solar it shouldn't matter unless you find yourself needing to ground any part of the circuit. Why?
Leave it float and there is no problem. (unless you use micro inverters - then you have lots of potential safety issues)
@upnorthandpersonal What you said...
Hi Andy
It does say lithium ion on the box, they are usually pouches
Are they definitely lifepo4?
If not wait for the spontaneous combustion
Hello from brawe Ukraine! LoFePO4 its from Li Ion family.
they are very nice looking batteries
They already know why they installed a fire extinguisher. Because of the pouch cells.
They said, they are safer... not?