I have been watching many of your videos in preparation for tiling the replacement of a bathtub with a Sort of Roman bath. I have done most of my own repair work in my home of 30 years. I hope to live here another 30 years, at least. I LOVE HOW YOU SHOW FAILS. I realize I am not a professional, nor can conceive all possible fails. By watching your videos hopefully I will prevent most of them, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, EFFORTS AND FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERTISE.
schluter ,customer service told me to use it on my torn linear drain,when the bonding flange was cut via rough handling ,shipping,I called them and asked for a warranty replacement, which,after some drama, they did replace, because I Informed them ,that your videos showed exactly what you show,...it wicks,leaks and will cause mold,and failure down the line,at first the rep tried to back out saying the tile shop wouldnt have sold me a damaged linear drain, and that I just wanted free schluter product,I posted on geeks,and another person said they also had a damaged linear drain,confirming my story,Dont use kerdi fix to repair cuts or penetrations,THANKS mr O
I use Go Board and Go Board sealant on my walls. I band the seams and corners with kerdi band and pretty much everything in the shower is schluter besides the board and sealant. I've never been a big fan of kerdi board because half inch kerdi board is too flexible. I like the go boards firmness when i'm pushing tile onto it. So far, so good!
To the Harry Homeowners out there actually take a schluter class if you are going to use it. Read in his description, this isn't the suggested usage. Though I'm very grateful that this content is out there, like anything, it's a data point. It's not a data set and it's not end analysis of statistical modeling. I think TC keeps it pretty square about the nature and conclusions of his tests and I appreciate it.
I watched a lot of videos, The Kerdi-Fix is to adhere the Kerdi band to other products like the lip on the Tub/Shower pan. Dont use it to 'glue' Kerdi to Kerdi, Use Mortar mix to do that.
Why? There is a cost saving, but no other good reason. If you have the option between bonding board to board or fleece to fleece with a (1) sealant/adhesive vs (2) mortar - the better option is still the the sealant/adhesive. (assuming something close to 100% coverage for both).
Great job. I find it funny with the amount of info you provide with issues, not one rep speaks up about how to fix the problem or that's not the intended application for the product. I know the word has reached at least one... For a business to be successful you need follow up. If other manufacturers copy or have a similar product that works or cares to hear comments they will take over. Every time I get ready to start using schluter I hear something. I think the only guarantee is another video provided by you to use ardex 8+9 over any type of joint using either thinset or now kerdi fix.
Glad I checked this out. I've been doing this trade for 20 years and decided to use kerdi fix as a perimeter bead on a tub deck to waterproof the edge.... I think I'll just use banding as per usual or fill it with a wee bit of thin set, then red guard when dry. It isn't going to see a ton of water.
Just posted on your other video, not a tile expert, but builder for 15 years now commercial service. But wanted to say your tests here are flawed. I did the exact test, with the fix and it works perfectly. So i decided to really test the fix. Smeared it on a papertowel. Stuck that to the kerdi membrane as of now both have held water in a cone for 24hrs now. I believe your issue with your cone is you made a funnel, but didnt seal the pinhole. 4years late but just wanted to set the record strait. I belive its the operator not the product.
I just ran across your video. Man, now as a DIYer about to redo a shower with Kerdi, I'm having second thoughts. All the Kerdi is available locally to a home owner where as the Wedi is not.
What are the other 2 companies in the video, ive been using schluter for 5+ years but ur videos are definitely making me want to explore my options know that other companies are starting to replicate the schluter design
Cheers fella 👍👍 scares me to death of all the years I've tiled, and all this new stuff with the endless pit falls. You really do do a fab job of communicating the facts in hand . Thankyou. 👍
Isaac, very strange that they advertise this product as though it is a waterproof sealant, so you can see why installers want to use it that way. My guess is you did not have enough Kerdi Fix on the surface of the Kerdi Membrane to embed the membrane in and let it do its job. Just like you need to use the 1/4 by 3/16 V-notch trowel to embed Kerdi Band to make it water tight. Here's another video idea for you: Embed the Kerdi in a thicker amount of Kerdi Fix, see if that helps out. Let us know how that works. Anyway, here is the verbiage from Schluter's own web site practically inviting you to use it as a waterproof sealer: "Schluter®-KERDI-FIX is a single-component sealing and bonding compound with a silane-modified polymer base."... "Suitable for bonding KERDI-BAND and KERDI waterproofing membrane to fixed building elements..."Creates a sealed system to eliminate leaks and reduce the potential for efflorescence and mold growth..." "Suitable for use as a sealant or joint filling compound"
Agreed. Needs bigger sample size. Do a dozen each - if one fails, then check methodology and repeat. If test fails again, then you might have statistically significant results. That said, those thin sheet membranes seem destined for failure, especially with multiple patches/seams.
How much does Kerdi Fix differr from 100% silicone? I use silicone on every butt joint just to be extra safe and especially in the corners before I even start with the kerdi band. Seems to work perfect at about 10% the cost. I'm about 4-5 tubes into tub to ceiling tub surround which would cost a fortune with Keri Fix and I think I have a superior seal.
If you want Kerdi-Fix, or any similar sealant to seal a seam on Kerdi Membrane, all you need to do is embed a thin layer of thinset mortar into the membrane prior to sealing it. You could also use water based polyurethane instead of the mortar, but you've presumably got the mortar there already. I've done this experiment exactly as shown in this video, and it doesn't leak at all if you use the mortar. The reason this works is that the mortar soaks through the fabric to the plastic layer, and then you're sealing the mortar.
Hi Isaac. Appreciate your videos, and you obviously know the tile trade well . After seeing this video I had to run a test on the Kerdi / Kerdi Fix too. I'm not really concerned about jobs we've done since we don't rely on Kerdi Fix, but I thought I'd give it try. Anyway, long story short, the cone I made has been holding water for 48hrs . Maybe give it another shot, and be sure to fill the pin hole in the corner. Cheers and Happy New Year !
Thanks brother! My brother and I have recently started expanding our use of newer products out (we’re young but learned from a legend in our town lol. He did tile for over 55 years I think) and your videos give us some insight on the products we choose. Thanks again! We’re gonna start posting our jobs here on UA-cam as well, we’re here in East Tennessee.
The name says it all. You need to "fix" it after using it. I feared there was a potential problem with leaks on the soft sided part of the sheets. Demonstration confirmed, thank you.
It is worth noting that with high-end exterior waterproofing systems (not part of most tile workers toolboxes) that incorporate fleece sheets...such as Kemper Kemperol...the fluid waterproofing resin is first applied to the substrate, followed by the fleece which is then FULLY SATURATED with the fluid resin. The fleece is only there to provide structural integrity to the overall membrane and all fibers are fully surrounded by and keyed into / embedded in the fluid. There is no pathway for moisture to flow laterally through the fleece matrix...for the very reasons outlined in this video.
Im glad you show the truth and how it works. We saw the thinset will wick eventually. But it watwr management. Water proofing will take a couple systems
Great video, you just proved what I have been preaching for a long time, I'm in so cal and you know I use Fulham hot mop shower pans , wrap scratch and brown, and I sleep well. Love the videos.
Interesting as always Isaac. Since I believe Kerdi-Fix is intended to bond the seams between the waterproof sides of membrane or Kerdi-board could you do an alternative test? Create a pocket... cut one 6" square of Kerdi membrane, apply a bead of Kerdi-Fix along three sides of the square on the waterproof side, then bond a second 6" square to the first, waterproof side to waterproof side. When it's cured fill the pocket with water and see how it performs.
Very interesting.. I’ll be conducting some test of my own on kerdi and kerdi fix. I will say kerdi fix did save my dads boat, the fiberglass cracked and he jammed a whole tube in there and we still take the boat out, with no water or moisture inside .
I'm a plumber, This is what I know, I only use what works and is proven. I will not guess, Because I have to put a warranty on everything I do. This goes with any products. Guys like you help everyone out a lot. It makes life much easier for everyone. Contractors that do not pay attention to these things are c***** contractors.
I used sika urethane sealant to fix the holes in my kerdi for the ledger board screws because I could not find kerdi-fix..wish I had this info before I finished the shower..you're doing good work testing this stuff man..I know now for the next one lol..my fixed holes are 5 inches from the floor so I have hopes that it's fine as it won't see standing water..so far it's good 8 months later..I can see the back of the shower in the storage area so I'll be able to see if a problems arises..
What product do you use to seal/waterproof cuts, holes, bad corners, seams with waterproofing membranes? Great what not to do video. Thanks for your time.
Piggybacking on your kerdi 'fuzz' idea, I just did the same test with kerdi-band; one w/kerdi-fix and one w/silicone. BUT I sealed only at the edges (2:08 in video) and I removed 'much' of the fleece in the seam (small chunk of 80 grit sp loosened then pulled most off). I rubbed the goo in well with my gloved finger before pressing the seams together. It has been 2 days and there is no sign of any leakage. The water has climbed up the kerdi 'fuzz' on the water side but totally dry on the far side of the seams. As a DIYer, I can afford to take the time to do this arond the 4 rounded and recessed corners of the one window in my steam shower (no direct water).
TRUGARD SHOWER WATERPROOFING MEMBRANE, Kobau Shower Waterproofing Polyethylene Membrane, IB Tools 20 mil Shower Waterproofing Membrane , sorry for the caps I was cut and paste from amazon. there are like 5 different ones now.
Built my own niche out of kerdi board. Used kerdifix to bond with screws to hold together for extra strength. Water tested, held watet for 24 hours no problem.
Yes, Schluter does not recommend using Kerdi Fix in that way, it's only people that assumed it. The difference between Kerdi and those other membranes goes both ways - pros and cons. The benefits are one, as you mentioned, better mechanical bonding. But second, the fleece on Kerdi is meant to be waterproof with THINSET. The fibers work to block the capillary action of water through thinset and render it waterproof, while by itself thinset of course would not be. So the thicker fleece does waterproof with thinset better, while the other membranes might have other advantages.
It's called Moisture Cure, you can help it by using a small spray bottle and damp down by misting, will help it cure faster. Enjoying your videos mate and have subscribed. Cheers
Thank you so much for all you do bro I’ve learned so much on how not to do things as well as how to properly do it and what material to use and not to use! 🙏🏼
I am not a professional tile setter but I have installed a couple of baths and showers with Shluter products. I am an engineer and would like to offer some observations about this entire sealing process. IMO: I never was sold on the Kerdi band and thinset adhesive method. It does not make sense and your great video demonstrates that fact. In some of your other videos you can see the migration of water under the k band or membrane along the fleece to thinset interface. Water will travel along the interstitial layer between the fleece and poly layers of the kerdi. I have used Kerdi fix but only on interfaces of non-porous surfaces (k board to tub flange, shower pan foam to k board styrofoam, etc.) After watching this you have confirmed my suspicion - kerdi to kerdi "sealing" with a thinset cement product cannot work. Have you ever broken open a concrete floor slab and noticed that the poly vapor barrier membrane under the slab was not "stuck" to the concrete? The incompatibility of the poly membrane with cement is not functional for adhesive sealing purposes. So what to do? Next time I would plan to use a sealant that is compatible with the poly (ie: it "sticks" to the poly ) and only apply it to poly to poly (or other compatible non porous surfaces). I don't remember but was the k band fleeced on both sides? If the top of the band isn't fleeced I would install it UPSIDE down (fleece side UP) and use k fix as the sealant / adhesive. If it is fleeced on both sides, I would look at the other manufacturer's similar products and use one with a minimal amount of fleece on one side - remember you need the fleece to mechanically add tooth to the band for the tile thinsetting. If I remember correctly the kerdi product is fleeced on both sides and what i just proposed would not work with the Schluter products. I really think this is a shortfall of the Schluter system and unfortunately may be a deal breaker for it's use. In fact the reason why Schluter emphasizes the need to embed the k band into the thinset so tightly and with thinner mud than tile setting is to attempt to make the thinset penetrate all the way down to the poly layer of the k band. But because of the non-adhesive compatibility of the poly / cement connection (just like under the floor slab) you cannot prevent parallel water migration at the poly to cement interface. This is a problem and great opportunity for another test setup! The current method of using thinset of any type to seal these fleeced membranes to one another does not work nor can it ever work. Trying to seal fleeced membranes using thinset would be the same as sealing a PVC shower pan liner with paper in between the glue at each joint - no bueno!
I worked for three differant tile companies, and a big developer. Now I run my own business. We allways did showers with a PVC liner, dry pack, cement curb, hardy backer on walls, red guarded bottom 6 inches of back of board, end, 2 coats on walls and three on seams and nooks/benches.... I have never had a callback or heard of a callback with any of other peoples project I worked on.... for me its tempting to try another system, do you have any advise
I do, if it isn't broke don't fix it. I've found while some of those systems work better than others nothing beats tried and true PVC liner, dry pack, red guard etc. It comes down to the quality of the installation no matter what system is used but I've found with all of them being installed perfectly noting beats the PVC liner method.
Wow! I am really glad that we just saw this. This was the first time we used Kerdi-Fix to do our edges in a hybrid shower solution (GoBoard on walls / Mud bed at bottom with single pitch to linear drain). Reinforced edges with AquaDefense. We will be doing a flood test in the next 1-2 days. BUT - since our edges were done with Kerdi-Fix, we are concerned. We will try it anyway but now are not optimistic. In the past, we have used Wedi sealant and it is perfect. But could not get it from our usual supplier and thought Kerdi-Fix was the same type of stuff. How can Schluter call it a Sealant if it is NOT WATERPROOF?! We are not optimistic but will proceed with our flood test. We'll probably have to redo all that edging etc! This was our 1st and now last time buying anything from Schluter! All marketing and no meat. We'll stick to Hydroban, Aquadefense, Wedi, Noble and GoBoard!
The sealant is waterproof. The point of the video is to show that if the sealant is used to bond Kerdi mesh or the fiber mesh side of Kerdi board, it will not work, due to the fact that the fibers can draw moisture in. Mortar, as others have pointed out in the comments, is the appropriate bonding agent for the fiber side.
@@silicondt1 my typo, corrected above. You’re correct that kerdi-band is not a fiber product and both sides are the same (to the best of my knowledge).
Good video man I personally will not use the product there are other installers on UA-cam that's all they know I personally would not risk thousands of dollars in a master bathroom to skip steps. The kurti reps must love you!!! Not to mention the product is expensive as hell the sealants are expensive as hell not worth the risk
Issac, I love your videos and am learning a ton. You may want to reach out to your friend Sal Diblasi as he has a video out about building a custom niche out of kerdi board and he does exactly that, uses kerdi fix as a caulk in the inside corner seams to water proof them. Now maybe it really is water tight as the board doesn’t have the same deep felt as the band, but he will probably be more open to exploring the issue with you than with me. Thoughts?
Hmm..then I'm surprised he has left that video up or at least hasn't addressed it in some way or another. He put a pretty good slope on the marble sill so maybe he's counting on water running off before it finds it's way to the seam?
Awesome video bud. Loving the channel Could you please make a video on measuring for a mitre cut. I always struggle with mitre cuts and making them look good
I use Kerdi as a coffee filter. works great! Why would you make a sealer that is NOT waterproof when everybody is using the Kerdi product in a waterproofing situation. Colossal idiocy.
It's not a matter of the Kerdi-Fix itself not being waterproof. As noted in the video, as well as in the description it is not intended to be used as a sealant or bonding material between two sections of Kerdi membrane. It otherwise provides a strong watertight seal when used properly.
Important question (I guess!): If no sealant will seal kerdi bands, how do you waterproof the joint between a bath-shower and the floor? I intended to do as Schluter says: put 1/8" inch width kerdifix on the plywood along the tub so that it sticks on the tub and then put a piece of kerdiband over the kerdifix along the tub (and the rest of kerdiband is "glued" to the Ditra membrane with thinset mortar)
I like hydro ban for most applications and Mapeilastic works great as well! A lot of good products out there. However correct application of these products is key in any product line you use. Do full research and seek hands on lesson in how to use correctly. Incorrect installation of any of these products will cause failure which could cost you a lot of money, if not you, someone is gonna be paying for the installers error. Really enjoy this guys videos, he is always honest about the products and his jobs. Keep up the great work and doing awesome tile jobs!! Thanks for your reviews!
Nobel seal been around longer then kerdi . Am glad you test it . I know you test the chalk. But been asking you to test the product. Look at Michael Byrne video he is my teacher.
The water is wicking through the fleece below the kerdi fix, If you were to skim it with thinset it would reduce the wicking. If you want a watertight shower skim the kerdi with thinset and coat it with Hydroban.
I am installing a linear drain in a mud floor, and I just bought some kerdi corners and band, which I was planning to Kerdi Fix to the metal, and thinset to the floor. Will this not work? Is Kerdi basically only waterproof with thinset? Maybe I could just redgard over the Kerdi? Seems kinda counterintuitive, but not a big deal.
Yes I found out the hard way after putting trust in product ,plus the schluter guys were I went to get certified ,now this was when system first came around in my area ,( probably 10 yrs ago ) said it was intended for such things like self made corners like he used in video ,so my da. Suggest using in a large commercial shower with 6 drains wer having leaking issues ,btw I seen someone promote the hydro band and that system was used on project at beginning ) but I ended up looking like a fool ,might as well as mixed up a flour paste and used it ,never seen something fail and wash away so fast ,I have done many showers and none have failed to my knowledge ,but I don't think I will never not be skeptical of this product ,always when in doubt and I stress always go with what you know ,unless you are being paid nicely by some company to push their product
I have an unrelated question. When you're tying and a dam to the walls using the Schluter trim such as rondec, how do you deal with the corners? I hope you can picture what I'm talking about. I have looked and looked and looked and so far Schluter and Arizona Tile have been no help. How do you tie the dam to the walls using Schluter trim? Everybody goes through this I can't imagine why it so much trouble to find a video from Schluter or at least a picture!
What kind of caulking can you use to seal a lap seam for example? I just did a shower pan using kerdi, but the seam seemed to have lifted in certain areas. Would love to reinforce it. Would Nobleseal caulk to the trick?
@Isaac Ostrom To make a perfectly waterproof heated bathroom floor, I intended to put Ditra Heat + kerdi bands on top, set in mortar, on the joints and perimeter of the membrane. Worried about the joint between the tub and the membrane/tiles. I plan to put some kerdi-fix on this joint (on the plywood) and tile over with epoxy grout. Do you have a better idea or should that work great?
Other video, even from Shluder, show using kerdi band and kerdi fix against the bathtub and ditra. So would this NOT be a good idea and there is a better product to do this?
To clarify- are you stating that Kerdi Fix is NOT waterproof? Or you're stating that Kerdi Fix can't waterproof two layers of Kerdi membrane together because it's the FLEECE that allows water through? Some of your phrasing makes it sound as though Kerdi Fix itself can't act as a water sealant in other applications, but it can.
Only thing i like about schluter is it is the thinnest one. So with mosaic tile is easier to install because of more equalized surface afterwards. Other require me to glaze thinset prior to installing mosaic to level out the seams. But besides tgat. Other competitors such as mapei are cheaper and have a better garantie
Isaac the Kerdi fix that comes with the drain kit with the metal extension ring is way better than that tube you have. It comes in a smaller aluminum tube.
I was about two minutes away from doing it wrong. Thank you!!
I have been watching many of your videos in preparation for tiling the replacement of a bathtub with a Sort of Roman bath. I have done most of my own repair work in my home of 30 years. I hope to live here another 30 years, at least. I LOVE HOW YOU SHOW FAILS. I realize I am not a professional, nor can conceive all possible fails. By watching your videos hopefully I will prevent most of them, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, EFFORTS AND FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERTISE.
schluter ,customer service told me to use it on my torn linear drain,when the bonding flange was cut via rough handling ,shipping,I called them and asked for a warranty replacement, which,after some drama, they did replace, because I Informed them ,that your videos showed exactly what you show,...it wicks,leaks and will cause mold,and failure down the line,at first the rep tried to back out saying the tile shop wouldnt have sold me a damaged linear drain, and that I just wanted free schluter product,I posted on geeks,and another person said they also had a damaged linear drain,confirming my story,Dont use kerdi fix to repair cuts or penetrations,THANKS mr O
I use Go Board and Go Board sealant on my walls. I band the seams and corners with kerdi band and pretty much everything in the shower is schluter besides the board and sealant. I've never been a big fan of kerdi board because half inch kerdi board is too flexible. I like the go boards firmness when i'm pushing tile onto it. So far, so good!
To the Harry Homeowners out there actually take a schluter class if you are going to use it. Read in his description, this isn't the suggested usage. Though I'm very grateful that this content is out there, like anything, it's a data point. It's not a data set and it's not end analysis of statistical modeling. I think TC keeps it pretty square about the nature and conclusions of his tests and I appreciate it.
I watched a lot of videos, The Kerdi-Fix is to adhere the Kerdi band to other products like the lip on the Tub/Shower pan. Dont use it to 'glue' Kerdi to Kerdi, Use Mortar mix to do that.
Why? There is a cost saving, but no other good reason.
If you have the option between bonding board to board or fleece to fleece with a (1) sealant/adhesive vs (2) mortar - the better option is still the the sealant/adhesive. (assuming something close to 100% coverage for both).
Great job. I find it funny with the amount of info you provide with issues, not one rep speaks up about how to fix the problem or that's not the intended application for the product. I know the word has reached at least one... For a business to be successful you need follow up. If other manufacturers copy or have a similar product that works or cares to hear comments they will take over. Every time I get ready to start using schluter I hear something. I think the only guarantee is another video provided by you to use ardex 8+9 over any type of joint using either thinset or now kerdi fix.
Ahh this is not a valid method for using any product in the world that has to do with waterproofing.
Ja ly 8 plus 9 is awesome product
Glad I checked this out. I've been doing this trade for 20 years and decided to use kerdi fix as a perimeter bead on a tub deck to waterproof the edge.... I think I'll just use banding as per usual or fill it with a wee bit of thin set, then red guard when dry. It isn't going to see a ton of water.
You should be good there. That’s an intended purpose. I typically
Great. Just got home minutes ago with $450 of kerdi supplies ready to start a shower. Good video.
I have been using schluter and kerdi systems for over 10 years and have never had a single leak. And I have done over a 100 showers with it.
Just posted on your other video, not a tile expert, but builder for 15 years now commercial service.
But wanted to say your tests here are flawed.
I did the exact test, with the fix and it works perfectly. So i decided to really test the fix. Smeared it on a papertowel.
Stuck that to the kerdi membrane as of now both have held water in a cone for 24hrs now.
I believe your issue with your cone is you made a funnel, but didnt seal the pinhole.
4years late but just wanted to set the record strait. I belive its the operator not the product.
I've seen this on several of his videos. He needs to do at least 3 of each (and probably 10) to make it mean anything.
I just ran across your video. Man, now as a DIYer about to redo a shower with Kerdi, I'm having second thoughts. All the Kerdi is available locally to a home owner where as the Wedi is not.
THANKS for showing this. I was getting ready to use the fix in my shower niche instead of using the kerdi corners! Big help.
What are the other 2 companies in the video, ive been using schluter for 5+ years but ur videos are definitely making me want to explore my options know that other companies are starting to replicate the schluter design
I'm only interested in the blue one. The green having the cancer warning makes me think of lawyer commercials in 20y. Anyone know??
Cheers fella 👍👍 scares me to death of all the years I've tiled, and all this new stuff with the endless pit falls.
You really do do a fab job of communicating the facts in hand . Thankyou. 👍
Isaac, very strange that they advertise this product as though it is a waterproof sealant, so you can see why installers want to use it that way. My guess is you did not have enough Kerdi Fix on the surface of the Kerdi Membrane to embed the membrane in and let it do its job. Just like you need to use the 1/4 by 3/16 V-notch trowel to embed Kerdi Band to make it water tight. Here's another video idea for you: Embed the Kerdi in a thicker amount of Kerdi Fix, see if that helps out. Let us know how that works. Anyway, here is the verbiage from Schluter's own web site practically inviting you to use it as a waterproof sealer: "Schluter®-KERDI-FIX is a single-component sealing and bonding compound with a silane-modified polymer base."... "Suitable for bonding KERDI-BAND and KERDI waterproofing membrane to fixed building elements..."Creates a sealed system to eliminate leaks and reduce the potential for efflorescence and mold growth..." "Suitable for use as a sealant or joint filling compound"
Agreed. Needs bigger sample size. Do a dozen each - if one fails, then check methodology and repeat. If test fails again, then you might have statistically significant results. That said, those thin sheet membranes seem destined for failure, especially with multiple patches/seams.
I call BS. Plenty of juice in that joint, way more than you should need, that's for sure.
No need for multiple tests, 1 failure is all it takes. Also he put plenty on the sample. System is overrated.
heretic xxx Way overrated.
@@chrisking6740 if you use this method in any system you should not install waterproofing
How much does Kerdi Fix differr from 100% silicone? I use silicone on
every butt joint just to be extra safe and especially in the corners
before I even start with the kerdi band. Seems to work perfect at about
10% the cost. I'm about 4-5 tubes into tub to ceiling tub surround which would cost
a fortune with Keri Fix and I think I have a superior seal.
If you want Kerdi-Fix, or any similar sealant to seal a seam on Kerdi Membrane, all you need to do is embed a thin layer of thinset mortar into the membrane prior to sealing it. You could also use water based polyurethane instead of the mortar, but you've presumably got the mortar there already. I've done this experiment exactly as shown in this video, and it doesn't leak at all if you use the mortar. The reason this works is that the mortar soaks through the fabric to the plastic layer, and then you're sealing the mortar.
What do you mean water based Poly instead of mortar?
@@ketertrue aquadefense
Hi Isaac. Appreciate your videos, and you obviously know the tile trade well . After seeing this video I had to run a test on the Kerdi / Kerdi Fix too. I'm not really concerned about jobs we've done since we don't rely on Kerdi Fix, but I thought I'd give it try. Anyway, long story short, the cone I made has been holding water for 48hrs . Maybe give it another shot, and be sure to fill the pin hole in the corner. Cheers and Happy New Year !
I’m pretty sure this guy performs all the fails on purpose for content. YouYube clickbait
Thanks brother! My brother and I have recently started expanding our use of newer products out (we’re young but learned from a legend in our town lol. He did tile for over 55 years I think) and your videos give us some insight on the products we choose. Thanks again! We’re gonna start posting our jobs here on UA-cam as well, we’re here in East Tennessee.
The name says it all. You need to "fix" it after using it.
I feared there was a potential problem with leaks on the soft sided part of the sheets.
Demonstration confirmed, thank you.
There is no soft, no front, no back, no up, no down, no top or bottom side to kerdi. It is the same on both sides.
It is worth noting that with high-end exterior waterproofing systems (not part of most tile workers toolboxes) that incorporate fleece sheets...such as Kemper Kemperol...the fluid waterproofing resin is first applied to the substrate, followed by the fleece which is then FULLY SATURATED with the fluid resin. The fleece is only there to provide structural integrity to the overall membrane and all fibers are fully surrounded by and keyed into / embedded in the fluid. There is no pathway for moisture to flow laterally through the fleece matrix...for the very reasons outlined in this video.
So would you say the keying in process makes Kerdi Fix waterproof? So that the membrane is fully saturated?
Im glad you show the truth and how it works. We saw the thinset will wick eventually. But it watwr management. Water proofing will take a couple systems
Great video, you just proved what I have been preaching for a long time, I'm in so cal and you know I use Fulham hot mop shower pans , wrap scratch and brown, and I sleep well.
Love the videos.
Interesting as always Isaac. Since I believe Kerdi-Fix is intended to bond the seams between the waterproof sides of membrane or Kerdi-board could you do an alternative test? Create a pocket... cut one 6" square of Kerdi membrane, apply a bead of Kerdi-Fix along three sides of the square on the waterproof side, then bond a second 6" square to the first, waterproof side to waterproof side. When it's cured fill the pocket with water and see how it performs.
Very interesting.. I’ll be conducting some test of my own on kerdi and kerdi fix. I will say kerdi fix did save my dads boat, the fiberglass cracked and he jammed a whole tube in there and we still take the boat out, with no water or moisture inside .
Kerdi fix itself is waterproof. The water is getting BETWEEN the fleece and the kerdi fix.
If you use an iron on the kerdi membrane it will hold its fold super well. I do that when I do any corners for showers
I was going to start my small bathroom remodel and im sure glad i saw this. Keep up the good work
I'm a plumber, This is what I know, I only use what works and is proven. I will not guess, Because I have to put a warranty on everything I do. This goes with any products. Guys like you help everyone out a lot. It makes life much easier for everyone. Contractors that do not pay attention to these things are c***** contractors.
Thanks for your factual, clear, no bias information.
Thanks for you videos!! I’ve done tile/stone for 40 years and always look for new/different techniques. 👍
I used sika urethane sealant to fix the holes in my kerdi for the ledger board screws because I could not find kerdi-fix..wish I had this info before I finished the shower..you're doing good work testing this stuff man..I know now for the next one lol..my fixed holes are 5 inches from the floor so I have hopes that it's fine as it won't see standing water..so far it's good 8 months later..I can see the back of the shower in the storage area so I'll be able to see if a problems arises..
Does that work better then pure silicone?
What product do you use to seal/waterproof cuts, holes, bad corners, seams with waterproofing membranes? Great what not to do video. Thanks for your time.
I really appreciate all the time you’ve taken to step up all our games to another level.
Really appreciate your honesty and your experience keep it up brother!!
Piggybacking on your kerdi 'fuzz' idea, I just did the same test with kerdi-band; one w/kerdi-fix and one w/silicone. BUT I sealed only at the edges (2:08 in video) and I removed 'much' of the fleece in the seam (small chunk of 80 grit sp loosened then pulled most off). I rubbed the goo in well with my gloved finger before pressing the seams together. It has been 2 days and there is no sign of any leakage. The water has climbed up the kerdi 'fuzz' on the water side but totally dry on the far side of the seams. As a DIYer, I can afford to take the time to do this arond the 4 rounded and recessed corners of the one window in my steam shower (no direct water).
Love your channel but I did this test myself- covered the top, exposed area of the corner also and it’s held all the water for 2 days
What are the two other membranes you have there ?
TRUGARD SHOWER WATERPROOFING MEMBRANE, Kobau Shower Waterproofing Polyethylene Membrane, IB Tools 20 mil Shower Waterproofing Membrane , sorry for the caps I was cut and paste from amazon. there are like 5 different ones now.
What are these other samples you are using?
Built my own niche out of kerdi board.
Used kerdifix to bond with screws to hold together for extra strength.
Water tested, held watet for 24 hours no problem.
I hear you there! I have build niches out of k board and Kerdi fix in the past.I decided to do that test just to see and I’m glad I did! Great video!
Yes, Schluter does not recommend using Kerdi Fix in that way, it's only people that assumed it. The difference between Kerdi and those other membranes goes both ways - pros and cons. The benefits are one, as you mentioned, better mechanical bonding. But second, the fleece on Kerdi is meant to be waterproof with THINSET. The fibers work to block the capillary action of water through thinset and render it waterproof, while by itself thinset of course would not be. So the thicker fleece does waterproof with thinset better, while the other membranes might have other advantages.
Right!❤
Man ...you have a great and HONEST message ....Thank you .!
I like this guy. He's smart and methodical, he understands the scientific method. Great stuff.
It's called Moisture Cure, you can help it by using a small spray bottle and damp down by misting, will help it cure faster. Enjoying your videos mate and have subscribed. Cheers
So how do you seal Kerdi? If you can’t seal it with Kerdi Fix, how does the thin set make a watertight seal?
Thank you so much for all you do bro I’ve learned so much on how not to do things as well as how to properly do it and what material to use and not to use! 🙏🏼
I am not a professional tile setter but I have installed a couple of baths and showers with Shluter products. I am an engineer and would like to offer some observations about this entire sealing process. IMO:
I never was sold on the Kerdi band and thinset adhesive method. It does not make sense and your great video demonstrates that fact. In some of your other videos you can see the migration of water under the k band or membrane along the fleece to thinset interface. Water will travel along the interstitial layer between the fleece and poly layers of the kerdi. I have used Kerdi fix but only on interfaces of non-porous surfaces (k board to tub flange, shower pan foam to k board styrofoam, etc.)
After watching this you have confirmed my suspicion - kerdi to kerdi "sealing" with a thinset cement product cannot work. Have you ever broken open a concrete floor slab and noticed that the poly vapor barrier membrane under the slab was not "stuck" to the concrete? The incompatibility of the poly membrane with cement is not functional for adhesive sealing purposes.
So what to do? Next time I would plan to use a sealant that is compatible with the poly (ie: it "sticks" to the poly ) and only apply it to poly to poly (or other compatible non porous surfaces). I don't remember but was the k band fleeced on both sides? If the top of the band isn't fleeced I would install it UPSIDE down (fleece side UP) and use k fix as the sealant / adhesive. If it is fleeced on both sides, I would look at the other manufacturer's similar products and use one with a minimal amount of fleece on one side - remember you need the fleece to mechanically add tooth to the band for the tile thinsetting. If I remember correctly the kerdi product is fleeced on both sides and what i just proposed would not work with the Schluter products. I really think this is a shortfall of the Schluter system and unfortunately may be a deal breaker for it's use. In fact the reason why Schluter emphasizes the need to embed the k band into the thinset so tightly and with thinner mud than tile setting is to attempt to make the thinset penetrate all the way down to the poly layer of the k band. But because of the non-adhesive compatibility of the poly / cement connection (just like under the floor slab) you cannot prevent parallel water migration at the poly to cement interface.
This is a problem and great opportunity for another test setup! The current method of using thinset of any type to seal these fleeced membranes to one another does not work nor can it ever work. Trying to seal fleeced membranes using thinset would be the same as sealing a PVC shower pan liner with paper in between the glue at each joint - no bueno!
Leave it an engineer to get provide rational analysis
I worked for three differant tile companies, and a big developer. Now I run my own business. We allways did showers with a PVC liner, dry pack, cement curb, hardy backer on walls, red guarded bottom 6 inches of back of board, end, 2 coats on walls and three on seams and nooks/benches.... I have never had a callback or heard of a callback with any of other peoples project I worked on.... for me its tempting to try another system, do you have any advise
I do, if it isn't broke don't fix it. I've found while some of those systems work better than others nothing beats tried and true PVC liner, dry pack, red guard etc. It comes down to the quality of the installation no matter what system is used but I've found with all of them being installed perfectly noting beats the PVC liner method.
Wow! I am really glad that we just saw this. This was the first time we used Kerdi-Fix to do our edges in a hybrid shower solution (GoBoard on walls / Mud bed at bottom with single pitch to linear drain). Reinforced edges with AquaDefense.
We will be doing a flood test in the next 1-2 days. BUT - since our edges were done with Kerdi-Fix, we are concerned. We will try it anyway but now are not optimistic.
In the past, we have used Wedi sealant and it is perfect. But could not get it from our usual supplier and thought Kerdi-Fix was the same type of stuff. How can Schluter call it a Sealant if it is NOT WATERPROOF?!
We are not optimistic but will proceed with our flood test. We'll probably have to redo all that edging etc! This was our 1st and now last time buying anything from Schluter! All marketing and no meat. We'll stick to Hydroban, Aquadefense, Wedi, Noble and GoBoard!
The sealant is waterproof. The point of the video is to show that if the sealant is used to bond Kerdi mesh or the fiber mesh side of Kerdi board, it will not work, due to the fact that the fibers can draw moisture in. Mortar, as others have pointed out in the comments, is the appropriate bonding agent for the fiber side.
@@NoahCowan Wait what? The kerdi band has 2 sides? Both look the same to me?
@@silicondt1 my typo, corrected above. You’re correct that kerdi-band is not a fiber product and both sides are the same (to the best of my knowledge).
I saw a recent video where you are using Kerdi still - is there a reason that you are using kerdi still over competitors?
Name names. Love your work. I use tru guard
Good video man I personally will not use the product there are other installers on UA-cam that's all they know I personally would not risk thousands of dollars in a master bathroom to skip steps. The kurti reps must love you!!! Not to mention the product is expensive as hell the sealants are expensive as hell not worth the risk
Love what you're doing sharing the truth, keep the vids coming 👊🏾
Did I miss where you said what the competitor membrane and sealants were? I just kept hearing "competitors". I did skim in some parts though.
Issac, I love your videos and am learning a ton. You may want to reach out to your friend Sal Diblasi as he has a video out about building a custom niche out of kerdi board and he does exactly that, uses kerdi fix as a caulk in the inside corner seams to water proof them. Now maybe it really is water tight as the board doesn’t have the same deep felt as the band, but he will probably be more open to exploring the issue with you than with me. Thoughts?
Hmm..then I'm surprised he has left that video up or at least hasn't addressed it in some way or another. He put a pretty good slope on the marble sill so maybe he's counting on water running off before it finds it's way to the seam?
Awesome video bud. Loving the channel
Could you please make a video on measuring for a mitre cut. I always struggle with mitre cuts and making them look good
What did you use instead of Kerdi fix on the other two models? Btw great demo bud!
I use Kerdi as a coffee filter. works great! Why would you make a sealer that is NOT waterproof when everybody is using the Kerdi product in a waterproofing situation. Colossal idiocy.
Lol no way 🤣
The joke is on us. Kerdi is laughing all the way to the bank
It's not a matter of the Kerdi-Fix itself not being waterproof. As noted in the video, as well as in the description it is not intended to be used as a sealant or bonding material between two sections of Kerdi membrane. It otherwise provides a strong watertight seal when used properly.
Important question (I guess!): If no sealant will seal kerdi bands, how do you waterproof the joint between a bath-shower and the floor? I intended to do as Schluter says: put 1/8" inch width kerdifix on the plywood along the tub so that it sticks on the tub and then put a piece of kerdiband over the kerdifix along the tub (and the rest of kerdiband is "glued" to the Ditra membrane with thinset mortar)
@@TileCoach thank you very much
Thanks a lot for all this info.i was gonna use it for my shower but not taking a chance
Attention Tile installers*!!! Is your kerdi going limp!? Not performing like it should? 😂😂
@@tileguru2061 HOT MOP if you are lucky to find a hot mop installer in your area
I like hydro ban for most applications and Mapeilastic works great as well! A lot of good products out there. However correct application of these products is key in any product line you use. Do full research and seek hands on lesson in how to use correctly. Incorrect installation of any of these products will cause failure which could cost you a lot of money, if not you, someone is gonna be paying for the installers error. Really enjoy this guys videos, he is always honest about the products and his jobs. Keep up the great work and doing awesome tile jobs!! Thanks for your reviews!
what brand are the other two membranes?
green laticrete hydroban membrane, blue wedi membraine
Nobel seal been around longer then kerdi . Am glad you test it . I know you test the chalk. But been asking you to test the product. Look at Michael Byrne video he is my teacher.
Really enjoy your testing 👍
Good morning Sir can you install kardi ban over kirdi fix . will it seal?
Thank you for your time and videos
Great video/information sir!
Sooo. How do you seal around a pvc window frame in a shower that’s constructed of kerdiboard?
What did you end up doing? I find myself trying to solve this exact problem in a bathroom remodel
Hey great videos and appreciate the info on this. Was about to use the fix on a job that would fail! Thanks mate!
Very helpful advice!
To be clear you still ised kerdi fix ob the competitors sheet membrane right?
The water is wicking through the fleece below the kerdi fix, If you were to skim it with thinset it would reduce the wicking. If you want a watertight shower skim the kerdi with thinset and coat it with Hydroban.
good suggestion
Do you think you could coat it with red Gard instead of hydroban? I can no longer get hydroban.
I am installing a linear drain in a mud floor, and I just bought some kerdi corners and band, which I was planning to Kerdi Fix to the metal, and thinset to the floor. Will this not work? Is Kerdi basically only waterproof with thinset? Maybe I could just redgard over the Kerdi? Seems kinda counterintuitive, but not a big deal.
Good experiment, but for the record the kerdi fix data sheet says it is intended to be a waterproofing sealant.
Who makes the green and the blue ones?
Can you used kerdi band on cement Board?
Good stuff, thanks for the great info!
Yes I found out the hard way after putting trust in product ,plus the schluter guys were I went to get certified ,now this was when system first came around in my area ,( probably 10 yrs ago ) said it was intended for such things like self made corners like he used in video ,so my da. Suggest using in a large commercial shower with 6 drains wer having leaking issues ,btw I seen someone promote the hydro band and that system was used on project at beginning ) but I ended up looking like a fool ,might as well as mixed up a flour paste and used it ,never seen something fail and wash away so fast ,I have done many showers and none have failed to my knowledge ,but I don't think I will never not be skeptical of this product ,always when in doubt and I stress always go with what you know ,unless you are being paid nicely by some company to push their product
Are the other two competitors compatible to put on the kerdi board and what are the name brands of the other two?
The very first use on the tube of kerdi fix is waterproofing pipe and valve protrusions.
So what do you to seal a hole in Kerdi from say a ledger board?
big point here as i rely on kerdi fix to do just that
Lol another hack.
I have an unrelated question. When you're tying and a dam to the walls using the Schluter trim such as rondec, how do you deal with the corners? I hope you can picture what I'm talking about. I have looked and looked and looked and so far Schluter and Arizona Tile have been no help. How do you tie the dam to the walls using Schluter trim? Everybody goes through this I can't imagine why it so much trouble to find a video from Schluter or at least a picture!
It looks like the Kerdi membrane itself could be leaking. Have you ever tested out the claim that it is indeed waterproof?
Thanks for the knowledge
So how do you actually waterproof these wedges? With thinset? Seems like a mighty fine layer of protection in vulnerable corners to me :/
What kind of caulking can you use to seal a lap seam for example? I just did a shower pan using kerdi, but the seam seemed to have lifted in certain areas. Would love to reinforce it. Would Nobleseal caulk to the trick?
@Isaac Ostrom To make a perfectly waterproof heated bathroom floor, I intended to put Ditra Heat + kerdi bands on top, set in mortar, on the joints and perimeter of the membrane. Worried about the joint between the tub and the membrane/tiles. I plan to put some kerdi-fix on this joint (on the plywood) and tile over with epoxy grout. Do you have a better idea or should that work great?
What Brands are the BLUE and GREEN bands?
Have you water tested LATICRETE’s band matl?
What do you suggest I use at the trench drain and Kerri connection
blue is Wedi, green is laticrete hydroban
Thanks for the info!
About 3 years too late. Had 2 kerdi fix joints in my shower and BOTH popped.
Who are the competitors (blue & green) used ?
Other video, even from Shluder, show using kerdi band and kerdi fix against the bathtub and ditra. So would this NOT be a good idea and there is a better product to do this?
So instead of Kerdi Fix around a Pipe Protrusion would I be fine to use something like Dap Kwik Seal bathroom caulk?
What about sikabond construction adhesive
The membrane seems like the problem, not the Kerdi-Fix
Good point.
What are that green and blue fabrics? They were just referred to as "the competitors."
Wicking effect. Only put the water where the KF is?
Great video!
Awesome! Great content. I learned something
To clarify- are you stating that Kerdi Fix is NOT waterproof? Or you're stating that Kerdi Fix can't waterproof two layers of Kerdi membrane together because it's the FLEECE that allows water through? Some of your phrasing makes it sound as though Kerdi Fix itself can't act as a water sealant in other applications, but it can.
Only thing i like about schluter is it is the thinnest one. So with mosaic tile is easier to install because of more equalized surface afterwards. Other require me to glaze thinset prior to installing mosaic to level out the seams. But besides tgat. Other competitors such as mapei are cheaper and have a better garantie
Isaac the Kerdi fix that comes with the drain kit with the metal extension ring is way better than that tube you have. It comes in a smaller aluminum tube.