How Cover Works in Star Wars Legion
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2021
- Join Mbweha (Ben) as he walks you through how cover works in Star Wars: Legion.
0:33 - Declaring Terrain
6:53 - Making a Ranged Attack
13:33 - Examples
Small error around 29.30 when I say only ground vehicles block line of sight, but it is in fact all vehicles.
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Thanks for this, especially the detailed examples. I find the cover rules are interpreted slightly differently by everyone and are often influenced by your background with the systems used by other games. It's integral to how SWL works and I really want to be familiar with various instances of how the rules are applied. Thanks again.
I really like these rule tip vids. Keep them coming.
Thank you for the detailed description of every cover variant! 😊🤩
Thank you for this in depth analysis. Cover has always been one of those somewhat mysterious elements of the game for us 😂. I think we have been doing it correctly though so thanks for the validation. Keep up the good work.
Great video Ben! Keep up the good work
If only Anakin knew "the high ground matters" . ...
XD
Thank you so much. This was incredibly useful.
Excellent video. It was very informative and cleared up some confusion. I just want to add that I enjoyed the more "serious" approach in the video. Older videos had to much "humor" cut into them. I don't mind a good laugh, but I'm here to enjoy your wisdom and instruction on playing the game. Thank you for creating this.
“Thanks” 😆
Really helpful! I’m gonna send all my guys o we here when they ask how cover works
Finally, I get it! Gods Bless You, Ben!
Gryffindor!!! 🧹
Thanks for this! As a new player, I found this very helpful!
Thanks for making this!
Great video! I learned quite a bit from this. I thought I had a pretty good grasp on the cover rules but I guess there's always more to learn! One thing I'd like to see more in-depth information on is arches and overhangs, things that might not block LOS or obscure a mini, but the 2D plane would cross through. I think I remember reading some janky stuff regarding that but now I can't find it.
Yeah I wish I would've done an example of an arch. The important thing to remember is that you only get to the 2D plane step if a mini is obstructed, and that pieces of terrain that don't obstruct the mini don't matter as far as what that 2D plane intersects.
Thanks for the video
Thank you for this! I thought I had a full understanding on how cover works but I have definitely been doing some things wrong lol 😆
Great video! Shared with all my Legion buddies since this is typically the biggest question we have. Especially the area terrain was enlightening. Side note. How do I get my hands on those silhouettes? Have cash will pay :)
A buddy of mine in Spokane printed these for locals, and sadly he doesn't have an online storefront so I can't promote him!
I do love me some 6+ Supply, however, and they sell these: 6upsupply.com/collections/gameplay-tokens-and-tools/products/silhouette-for-small-base-trooper
Question on the AT-ST to Chewbacca example. So the very front lip of the base on Chewbacca is obstructed. Maybe 5% at best is obstructed. That alone is enough to trigger a cover check, where then you draw the 2D plane from the center base of the AT-ST (not a line from the top of his head) to Chewbacca. I'm hoping I understood that correctly.
Yes, that is correct.
It isn't uncommon for people to mistakenly think that half or more of the defending mini needs to be obstructed by the terrain. This comes from confusing the suggested method of determining what units will benefit from what terrain in the Declare Terrain step of setup with the steps to determine cover during an attack.
may I ask what game mat do you have I really like that play mat forest theme one I want to get as well
That mat is from Frontline Gaming. I also have a “Mars” mat from them that works well as Genosis. If you get one just know that it needs to be left out for a bit for the material to relax (if you measure it when you first unroll it it’s going to be a little bit shorter than 36x72).
Is this still accurate with the new rules? If not, it would be amazing to see this video updated. These videos are really great.
Unfortunately this is not how cover rules work anymore. There is an updated video on the channel that goes over some of the major problems with the new system. Glad you’ve enjoyed the videos!
Where did you get the tall grasses terrain from? They’re clever for area cover.
Thanks! Those are “Easter grasses” that I found at Hobby Lobby with an aquarium plant in the center instead of an egg. They’re glued to felt with a penny on the bottom for a heavy base.
Question. If I have troopers in a building touching the back wall, and my opponent has a force outside but I can see them all even though they are very obscured for cover purposes. Do they not get any cover because I’m touching the building even though it’s the opposite wall? Hope this makes sense.
If you ruled that the building was one piece of terrain, then your target would not benefit from the terrain because your unit leader is touching it.
@@TeamRelentless that’s how we played it but I hate that. It makes no sense to me rules are rules though I guess
well done!!🤘🏻
question for minute ~24: if chewbacca (attacking unit) is in basecontact with that same rock but stayinig on the ground, do clan wren (defending unit) gain cover?
both units are touching the same terrainpiece and chewbacca is able to see the whole unit, but not the bases of clan wren...🤔🤔🤔
In that scenario the shot would be open (assuming Chewie could see what he's shooting at). Touching a piece of terrain means it's ignored for the purpose of cover, unless the terrain is completing obstructing all LOS to the defending mini (in which case the mini automatically is considered to have heavy cover).
Glad you asked-that's really something I should have talked about in this video in the first place!
@@TeamRelentless cool thank you! thought about something like that but wasn't sure😁
Sorry to ask a second question; for troopers that are on clear pegs (arc troopers for example).
When determining LOS - do you assume they are on the ground and use the silhouette? Or if they are on pegs, can you see them in their air born position?
Hope that makes sense.
Silhouettes are intended to be used for all small-based minis, so in the case of Mandos or ARCs there is no advantage or disadvantage for them being on the clear pegs when it comes to determining LOS.
@@TeamRelentless That's what I assumed - thanks again bud.
Wouldn't pretty much any shot from low ground go through the bottom of the high ground before hitting the base of a trooper standing on high ground, thus giving heavy cover?
Yeah this is when having a good sense of geometry is really helpful so you don't actually always have to get down next to the table and look. As long as the mini on the high ground is higher than the top of the LOS-checking point on the attacker *AND* the base of the mini on the high ground isn't slanted towards the attacking unit, it's going to be obscured. It's that "if the targeted mini is slanted" bit that can make things complicated.
~Mbweha (Ben)
@@TeamRelentless Cheers. I suppose this is a good reason you don't want to tilt forward over the front edge of a high ground.
24:35 approx.
Wouldn't you have had to declare that piece of terrain as being effective against the air speeder for the 50% rule to matter? It's the only inconsistency in the video as during combat as far as I understand it you only care if:
The terrain provides cover and
if any part of the the model is blocked by said terrain.
So if it was not declared at start of game, then even if you were right close, that terrain wouldn't provide cover for the air speeder right?
Yes, you would have had to have declared that piece of terrain as giving its cover type to that unit. However, that hill is for sure equal to or greater than half the height of the T-47, so it's safe to assume that players would have agreed that the hill would grant its cover to the T-47.
Cheers!
@@TeamRelentless Cheers :)
Can models from different units of the same side of the conflict touch each other base to base?
Correct. There is no restriction on being base-to-base with friendly units. And in the case of touching a unit that counts as terrain, it's highly advantageous.
@@TeamRelentless Learn To Play p.12 "However, a player cannot place any of their minis in base contact with minis from their other friendly units.
Ah, I see what's going on. So the Learn to Play book hasn't (to my knowledge) ever been updated. The Rules Reference Guide typically gets updated about twice a year. Page 19 of the RRG says that, "Friendly minis from different units can be in base contact with each other."
You get 100,000 karma points for citing your source by the way. :)
How would cover work if the shores were in base contact with the hill shooting at the Mandos and vice versa? If they both had LOS to less than half of the unit?
Played a TTS match today and we called it as no cover. I just want to verify and haven't been able to find a quick answer. Thank you in advance!
If the attacking unit leader can’t see any part of the silhouettes of half or more of the defending unit’s minis, it’s going to be heavy cover no matter what. Touching the terrain doesn’t allow the attacking unit leader to see through the terrain piece, it just means that piece gets ignored when you do the 2D plane step.
@@TeamRelentless I asked the question in reverse. How would cover work if the Mando's are shooting down from the hill at a unit that that is in base contact with the hill? (Given that the mando unit leader can see half or more of the squads silhouettes but not the bases. )
Ah, gotcha (I think). In that case it would be open because the Mandos are touching the hill and can see more than half of the defending unit’s silhouettes.
This can be one of the most frustrating situations for new players because an attacking unit can get a shot in the open when it can only see a sliver of the defending unit’s minis.
@@TeamRelentless Thank you! It doesn't seem *logical* but rules can't work perfectly in every scenario.
Don't compulsory Vehicles not give cover?
There are two types of vehicles: Ground and Repulsor. Repulsor vehicles normally do not provide cover, but Hover: Ground would cause them to provide cover. All vehicles can block line of sight (meaning that if a repulsor vehicle was somehow making it impossible for an attacking unit to see a defending mini, that mini would have heavy cover). This is all from pages 84 and 85 of the most current RRG.
Where do you get that when using silhouettes, the base still counts? The silhouettes rules state when measuring LOS you use the templates, no mention of bases. They are only referenced in the RRG and as I read it, the silhouettes rules should overuse both mini and Base parts.
Would you accept "for the Nema told me so" as an acceptable explanation? XD
But seriously, after further review of the RRG and the Tournament Regulations, we're thinking that RAW only the silhouette matters (so Chewie would indeed be in the open in that example).
*However,* we have submitted a question to the AMG rules forum to hopefully get it fixed, because if the RAW ruling stands it will create situations that are completely ridiculous (e.g. a trooper standing at the edge of a building, even with its base overhanging, would be invisible to a unit attempting to fire at it from below).
Thanks for asking for further clarification. When the question [hopefully] gets answered, I'll link it in another response.
@@TeamRelentless LoS/Cover are probably the weakest part of the legion ruleset, with or without silhouettes.
On your specific example, it's an edge case (literally :-D) and I find it absolutely ok if the trooper below can't see the one above when LoS is blocked the other way anyhow (base or no base). If anything, the high ground should have the advantage ;-).
As promised: forums.atomicmassgames.com/topic/1142-when-checking-los-to-a-small-based-mini-does-the-base-matter-or-only-the-silhouette/
Thanks again for asking for clarification!
@@TeamRelentless so they retroactively validated your claims in the video 😃. Nice graphic btw!
Only the highest quality graphics from Team Relentless!
So let me get this right cause I've been playing it completely wrong...
1. Start of game my opponent and I discuss what terrain will give what cover and what units will benefit from that cover because of the half or more rule.
2. If a unit, say the atst, is behind a piece of terrain (that was declared at the start of the game as being able to give it cover due to being half it's height or more) and the attackers los goes through that piece of terrain regardless of where the atst is standing it will get the cover?
3. All vehicles give cover except repulsor vehicles?
4. If a unit is on top of terrain that was declared with a cover type and even a little of the base is obscured from a unit checking los below the unit on top will gain cover?
1) Yes.
2) Mostly yes. This is a two-step process. Step 1: check to see if the terrain is at all obstructing the defending unit from view. Step 2: check to see if a 2D plane traced from the center of the attacking unit leader's base to the center of the base(s) of the defending unit also passes through any terrain from Step 1. If a piece of terrain obstructs view in Step 1 AND that 2D plane goes through it, cover is granted.
3) Mostly yes. Ground vehicles give cover, repulsor vehicles don't. Hover: Ground changes that a bit, and all vehicles can block line of sight.
4) Yes, assuming that the base is flat and also higher than the attack unit leader's head/silhouette, it's geometrically guaranteed to have cover ("Don't try it, Anakin!").
@@TeamRelentless so as long as even a minis foot is behind cover the line the attacker draws goes from the middle of their base through the piece of terrain to the middle of the defenders base they'll get cover
Yup! This is one of the least intuitive parts of the game, and is frequently a point of confusion as players are made aware of it.
@@TeamRelentless ok think I got it. Thanks!
These New Cover rules are like fucking rocket science man
*Twin Ion Engine science 😆
Mullet!
cover is... good 🤔
Depends on who gets to it first.
Are those official silouettes?
Those were printed by a buddy of mine in Spokane. They match the dimensions/template given in the Tournament Regulations. There are no "official" silhouettes at this time (outside of printing the Tournament Regulations and cutting out the template).
~Mbweha (Ben)
@@TeamRelentless ok thanks. And nice vid.😀
I thought only non walker ground vehicles could block line of sight
It is in fact all vehicles, although it certainly happens most often with a unit like the GAV.
Really found this useful and been playing for a while. One question we struggle with which any help would be appreciated. If the top of the model is obscured by a low arch but I can fully see the base is it in cover? 2D view suggests yes but you can completely see the base?
That would be cover, yes. The reason is because you check that 2D plane anytime any part of the base *or* model is visually obstructed (unless it’s a repulsor vehicle on a flight stand, in which case you ignore the base and flight stand).
@@TeamRelentless thanks we’d been struggling to work it out but that’s clicked the last piece of the LoS/ cover puzzle. Really appreciate the answer and excellent video
Some rules are very stupid. For example: you have 3 units, two of them are light cover and one is heavy - this mean all have light cover. But if you have 3 unit, one in open, one in each cover, according to rules it is heavy cover. No way... I think you should count the number of cover points. If they are at least 50% of the unit count it gives light cover, if they are 150% of unit count it gives heavy cover. So for 4 units to be in light cover you will need 2 points, and 6 for heavy cover. Of course at least half units must have cover.
Thanks for making this video! I think it provided a lot of great information. Though I don't believe Droidekas (or any vehicles) actually benefit from cover from barricades based on the official Rules Reference Corrections thread (forums.atomicmassgames.com/topic/630-rules-reference-corrections/?do=findComment&comment=12270).
You are correct! That change was made after this video. If cover rules ever change substantially, the video will be redone.
@@TeamRelentless Yep, I should have added "any more." Thanks for confirming! Appreciate you all!