The Carcano action was made from a very good grade of steel and was forged. The Germans chamberd many Carcano's for the 7.92x57mm ie 8mm Mauser cartridge which developed around 49,000 psi with many of the loadings. Worked fine in the K-98 and MG-42 machine gun and worked evidently OK in the Carcano action. There were many technicial innovations like gain twist rifling ending in about 1 turn in 8 to stabilize the long 160 gr bullet. Hand rubbing my 91' with boiled linseed oil. Very good review.
You're mistaken!!! Italians actually adopted a spitzer bullet from national development and it was the 7.35 x 51mm Carcano by 1938, but the declaration of war made by Mussolini and the difficulty of recovering from 6 years of war in Ethiopia and Spain came out with the same results: confusion, because the 6.5 x 52mm was still in wide use! Still, they adopted a very effective round, but always lighter than the other current international standards. So Italians reverted to the 6.5mm round...
Gunny SEA here with a good review for your first go at explaining this weapons system to the General public and old Grunts like myself. Your presentation was like an uncle or older brother speaking to a younger person who you really wanted to understand the basic INFO about this CARCANO 91/41 & IT'S Variants. Your only weak point is knowing the Nomenclature of the Weapon You are discussing...But if you did not know diddle squat about this rifle before someone should now. You made it easy to understand how it functioned so most people could run this rifle and use it if they needed too. You can always get a manual to learn the Muzzle from the Butt Stock. Thank You, Gunny SEA
Thank you for having supported my theory. Some guys mocked the Italian army during World War II to have a 1891 rifle, but I just wanted to point out that all the major armies during the WWII had bold action rifles of the late nineteenth century, as Lee Enfield (1895) or the Mauser Karabiner (1898) or as the rifle you mentioned, Mosin-Nagant, which was of 1891 as the Carcano.
We didn't adopted spitzer bullets in the army, but we designed a cartridge in 1938 that used spitzer bullet and was meant to be adopted by the army and by the fascist police (7,35x51 carcano). We never officially adopted that cartridge because the war started before reacing a decent numbers of guns chambered for it and because the high commands didn't wanted to create confusion deploying two different calibers on the front.
+Jimi Campbell Thank you for the kind words! This was my first review, and I had so much to learn. I've thought about redoing this one in HD because I have a new camera and editing software. Ammo can be hard to find these days, but it's worth it, in my opinion, to hear these old war dogs bark again.
Charles' Milsurp Firearms please do another video, fairly simple gun but you managed to do 3 vids for Mauser 98 and smle. would love some more milsurp reviews on either this or any other guns, if you could get your hands on a mas 36 that would be awesome
actually italy adopted 2 spitzer type ammunition, the AP cartridge for model 91 weapons (wich was mainly used in machine guns such as FIAT 1914)and the special cartridge for marksman competition, just for interest the SMI on the clip means Società Metallurgica Italiana; by the way the gain twist designed by maj.Garelli was meant to solve the problem of bullets loosing the jackets and was found that it also helped in reduced barrel wear. any way gratz.. very good review
@lollodj You're absolutely right. Italy in 1939 was not ready for WWII. Italy did not have enough Lire, to modernize her navy, army (ie replacing the 1891 series rifles and carbines and new tanks), airforce, etc. Italy can be proud however, of the performance of her Bersaglieri and Folgore during the campaigns in North Africa. And yes, I realize this review was very long. My future reviews will come in three parts: History, Operation and Maintainance, and Accessories.
Small comment, Carcano was the chief engineer of the Royal Arsenal that designed the action. The Commission was set up by the Minister of war, Pallavicino. The Mannlicher reference was in fact for the magazine/clip system, which was modified by the Italians.
You've convinced me to finally purchase a Carcano. My Great-grandfather carried such a rifle during WW2, but I was under the impression that they were not a good rifle at all, from other opnions, at least now I have the right information, great review.
I have had numerous conversations w/ WWII Italian veterans. Il Duce was a charismatic leader,but lacked skills needed for strong military.(Sound familiar?) Mussolini downplayed need for aircraft carriers, claiming peninsula was a natural carrier! Innovative, clever ideas such as Italian semi-auto rifle, and fighter planes, but as you mentioned lacked industrial capacity. Embargo by colonial powers against Italy stunted progress.Not downplaying important, pivotal, and significant role of M-1.
The performance of Italian army during the Second World War were due to a lack of military resources and a low industrial capacity, compared with both Great Britain and especially with the U.S. In other words, the Italian army military lacked aircraft, tanks and guns enough, also because Italy had bled militarily in the Spanish Civil War. U.S. forces were the first to be massive equipped with semi-automatic rifle, like the M1 Garand and this also had an important weight in the Allied victories
You are right about bullet damage being less lethal than expected. The first proof of this came during the italo turkish war, where the tribal North africans loyal to the ottomans had some british medics unoffically helping them. They wrote extensively about their work and most reported that if an artery or bone was not hit the bleeding was not really extensive. Soldiers without infection could return to batte relatively soon.
The German General Staff preferred to sacrifice Italians rather than the Germans, Italians were expendable. In the battle of Nikolayevka on the Russian front, the Italian 8th Army paid the highest price for allowing the Axis forces to reach Šebekino, outside the Soviet "pincer". In the battle of El alamin the Italians paid the highest price as well, while the Germans retreated quickly from the front. The Folgore division fought until the end and the Ariete Armoured Division was annihilated.
@Gjldo Hmm, I completely forgot to research armor piercing rounds in the 6.5x52mm caliber :/ And thanks for the additional information, you Italians probably have more books and other reading material available to you than me. Anyways, I'm glad you liked it, I'll make more rifle reviews when I get home from college for break.
Yes, Hornady's rounds are supposed to be the correct diameter. Prvi uses standard sized 6.5mm rounds that are .264, but the bore of the Carcano is really .267 I believe.
Thanks for the kind words. As for an excellent quality Carcano, it will depend on many factors. Carcano rifles saw a lot of hard service and an "excellent" condition one will probably have been refurbished after the war, like mine. I don't know too much about today's Carcano market, it's not something I keep track of closely. Mine was about $300 after all transfer fees and shipping, I think, and that was in 2010. The price has definitely gone way up since then though.
The first deer I ever killed was with my dad's, it blew a 3" hole through the chest and took out the heart. It was only about a 60 yd shot, but was impressive. Shooting targets st 100yds, you can tell when the bullet hits it begins tumbling, because the hole would be oblong. It held a decent 1" group(open sights). That was 35 years ago when I could see good though.
I have one 1940 Model 91/38 Short Rifle, Its my grandfather's from WW2 (he was in partisans so the rifle was probably captured) anyway the rifle was in the basement in my village since the end of WW2, I found it 2 years ago and I couldnt rotate the bolt, but now when I cleaned it it works great :) its still in good shape just had some minor surface corosion... The barel is in great shape from inside, it still can kill someone :D beautifull rifle ;)
Thanks for a fair and informative review. I'm a defender of the Carcano myself but I won't be buying one until I start reloading or the price of the Hornady ammo goes down.
@CCRfreak96 Much appreciated. Just warning you, the brass clips can be a bit more fragile than the blued steel ones. They were both meant to be one time use, but you can play with the lips of the clip to get you to last a while. Depending on the bore of your Carcano, you can use .264 diameter rounds from Prvi Partizan, but actual Italian rounds of the era used .268 diameter bullets. Hornady makes 160 grain round nose rounds with the proper bullets,but they cost ~ 28 dollars a box.
@DEOXYS987 No. They're are completely different. The Carcano is a licensed copy of the Mannlicher magazine system using controlled feed. It uses an en-bloc clip to hold the rounds. The clip is effectively part of the rifle until the last round is chambered and falls out. The Mosin Nagant has a integral magazine that has a push feed where the extractor doesn't gain control of the round until the bolt is turned down. The reason the magazines protrude is because they're both single column designs.
@starwarsman96 I bought the Hornady off of graf and sons' website. The Prvi partizan stuff I either buy locally or from graf's website. And yeah, it's expensive. I've only brought my Carcano to the range twice since I got it.
Thank you,my brain is now full of info. I have always been a little worried to fork out the bucks on one of these. I think this video changed my mind...Thank you.
@DEOXYS987 Not at all, the Carcano uses a very humped sight with two V-notches where you're supposed to aim with the notch at the bottom of the v-notch, while the Mosin Nagant has a ramp style sight single U-notch where you're supposed to aim level with the top of the U. The Carcano rear sight has a battle setting of 200 meters and goes to 1000 meters. The Mosin Nagant has no battle setting and goes from 100-2000 meters.
I have spoken to an actual survivor or Foibe, who laid quiet for days surrounded by dead and dying bodies. Also have seen books and pictures. Oddly, at one point I spoke to a Yugo plumber who emigrated to US and bragged about his time killing Italian civilians.(He's now dead, hopefully burning in Hell.)Of course in some circles in US plumber was considered some type of hero.
Perhaps simply General De Winton did not want to antagonize the Titoists and then the British generally hated the Italians who had declared war on them, but they are just my speculations. You may know the "Bleiburg repatriations", where, in May 1945, the Titoists killed thousands of Croats (estimates range from 50,000 to 100,000), accusing them of being Ustashe, in reality there were also many innocent civilians, or people with limited liability.
@Jeffs45rpm I was under the impression that 7.92x57mm developed pressures of over 50,000 PSI. Then again, I'm no expert on cartridges beyond initial things like diameter and muzzle velocities.
Well, the Lee-Enfield was used by the British for 61 years (1895-1956) and the Mauser Karabiner 98k rifle was derived directly from the Mauser Gewehr 98, 1898, ie, all bolt-action rifles of the World War II armies derived directly from the rifles of the late nineteenth century or early twentieth century as the Springfield M1903.
M91/41 does not have the gain twist rifling in it only the earlier rifles, also please be careful with the .268 bullets I've miked a range of projectiles from the pre war and wartime production and they come in at .266 , I had 2 massive case failures one came out like a belted magnum with a .22 sized primer pocket, strong rifles to be sure
I did not know that the steel that made the Carcanos were from Czechloslovakia.I own a Czech VZ 22 Infantry Rifle and its great quality steel.Yes the Swedes may have good steel but the VZ 22s and 24s have seen more combat.The Carcanos are good rifles,the recoil is very light like the Swede and very accurate.The clips are very hard to find.The 91/41s are the best for me but my freind owns it and Im impressed for being a Mauser guy.
@TheEltopian Thank you for your advice! Sometimes I had to hold the camera by hand because my tripod didn't go high enough. Also, the camera has no focus. I'll need to upgrade sometime soon. I'm also working on saying, "um, uh" less and being more consise. My next review will be on the Mauser Kar98k, when I get home again in late Feb. Rather than making a 40 min long video, I'm going to divide it into 3 parts. History, Operation and function, and ammunition and acessories. Thank you again!
Something01992: I really enjoyed your video. It was very educational and I learned a lot. I can tell that you cherish the history of guns and of course firing them! I'm interested in guns as well. It's my dream to one day own a collection of guns. I just hope that by the time I can purchase guns of my own that the military surplus stores won't run out of them. It might be another 8 or 10 years before I start building my collection. Great video!
@Warbirdguy1 Lol, it's not my website, the closest thing I have to my own website besides this channel is my facebook account. Regarding your bolt, I think my bolt does the same thing. That's because there's space between the bolt its down position, and the slanted surface that it cams against to achieve initial extraction and cocking the bolt. However, I don't have any pictures or videos of your rifle, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
All guns can use the sight EFFECTIVELY in four positions of alignment. By putting the post at the bottom of the RS (rear sight[groove/pinhole]), putting the post at the center of the RS like a peep, leveling the post with the RS, or for aiming high leveling the RS with a significant point below the post like where it connects to the barrel, etc. Sights are just lining multiple points and knowing the impact.
@Ratkill9000 I did know it stood for rimmed, but I used the two interchangeably at the time. I still do when I'm talking to different people. Some people know that when you say "Seven, six, two by fifty four rimmed" is a Russian cartridge and others don't.
@something01992 I was mistaken on the model. It is a much older model. This one is pre WW1. In fact, it's stamped 1899 Terni. The stock has been replaced.
@Gjldo I was aware of the fact that Italy had to pay 300,000 lire to Ferdinand von Mannlicher for the rights to use his clip system. Italy based its clip off of the German Gewehr 88. It's also better than the Austrian version because it can be loaded either way into the magazine. I think that Itally personally should have adopted a mauser system with a stripper clip feed. The Belgians adopted the 1889 Model Mauser. I'm sure the commission had its reasons and it's all history now.
Very enjoyable review - thank you. There seems to be little information available on these rifles. I want one but the enclock clip system is bugging me.
@123mrresidentevil Shot placement? Did you use the correct sight picture (blade at the bottom of the V)? Did you use soft point bullets? Were you using proper diameter bullets? Hornady uses correct .268 diameter roundnose bullets correct for the Carcano. Prvi partizan uses incorrect 139 grain .264 diameter bullets. Also, do the basic physics. The 6.5x52mm Carcano shoots a 160 grain bullet going approx. 2200 feet per second from the muzzle. The M1 carbine shoots a 110 grain bullet 1900 feet/sec.
BTW yes that means you can zero your sights to however you want if you didnt get the memo. I personally use all four methods depending on range to make up for bullet drop, in the order I listed closest to farthest. Heck I've been into sights, toyed with shotgun ribs, red dot, etched glass, lining up 3 sights at once, I'll have to put up a video on that soon.
@something01992 Bty, I love your website, I saw it before I actual;y knew you were on UA-cam. A question on operation. My bolt has some play in it. The locking lugs engage but the handle rotates freely for ~1/4 of an inch. It does not come free from the locking lugs but this concerns me. Any inputs?
Thank you,my brain is now full of info. I have always been a little worried to fork out the bucks on one of these. I think this video changed my mind...Thank you. P.S I have also gotten a part for a rifle[sling,bayonet...]befor the rifle it self. Makes you want to save the money more.In Canada mil surps tend to be $100 more or so then they would be in the U.S.Got to think before you buy.
French rifles also have really large, chunky sights. I don't know if I've ever handled a Swedish cavalry carbine, but I know their fortress carbines have tiny v-notch sights with a tiny blade in the front covered by two, large, wings that really make sighting down one of those a real pain.
Moisen Nagants were still in Soviet inventory at fall(1991) and Soviets were still issuing them (as M44 carbines) in the '80s in Angola.Indian police could be seen w/ SMLE's during Mumbai massacre, Lybians seen recently w/Carcanos. Mausers still very common among police and paramilitary units in Central So. America.More powerful ctg and ability for more accurate fire still valued in some settings.FYI:In Iraq, troops rather civilians have AKs than more powerful Mausers or SMLE that pierce armor
@Gjldo Lol, of course. I should have realized that, whatever cost less lire the Italians would have gone with lol. Thanks for all your information. Perhaps someday, when I have the time, I'll re-make this video review and include everything you've written here.
@123mrresidentevil Depending on which Carcano you used, and assuming you used the lowest sight setting (the battle sight), if you sighted the rifle properly (blade at bottom of the V-notch) the height of the bullet at 100 yards is anywhere from +5.25 inches to +13.75 inches. If you used the regular Mauser style sight picture (blade even with the V-notch), you will have shot much higher. So lesson here is that you probably screwed up, not the round.
Cool video. Watch it because my class mate brought one in to the droms and asked if we know what it was and no one had any ideal what it was. So wen I sall ur video I watch it and learned a lot I will tell him what j learned here and advise him to watch ur video too. Thank you
@Warbirdguy1 Lol, yeah it was my first time reviewing anything and I was still new to the field. And $25? That's crazy! Nice catch, mine cost me about $300.
Czech steel is good because the Czechs produced the Model 1922s,1924s,and Persian Mausers which were exported throughout the world.I have a 1922 made for the Turks and this rifle has excellent combat accuracy which I shoot out to 400 yards on steel targets with great results.Its fun to shoot because the rifle cost me $75 at Big 5.
@MrRichardsSmoker Um, no it isn't. My friend's dad is from Italy and I asked him how to pronounce it prior to making this video and it is car-can-o with a rolled "r" and a flowing Italian accent. If I had pronounced it wrong, the two thousand or so Italians that have seen this video probably would have corrected me. So congradulations, you failed, troll harder next time.
I think you are referring to Brigadier General W. De Winton, he was killed as he passed in review his men. He was killed by Maria Pasquinelli, who had witnessed the atrocities committed by Tito's men and she regarded the British jointly responsible.
@CCRfreak96 I buy most my ammo locally. If you're after Hornady, try midwayusa, graf and sons. Those are the two that I can think of that would probably carry it.
@something01992 actually an italian guy from tourin arsenal (wich was the arsenal that designed the prototype that went into production: the 1ter) designed a feeding sistem for it, but royalites for it where 0.10 lire for each sistem build, now since italy was planning to build over the years more then 3milion rifles, mannlicher solution was considered cheaper
Recent studies estimated that during the retreat, 70,000 Italian soldiers were captured by the Russians, among them at least 22,000 died during the marches and the transfer of those early months of imprisonment, and, because of emergency conditions in which were both prisoners and the guards, were not even counted, the other 48,000 who arrived in the prison camps, only 10,000 (just one in five) were able to survive and return to their homeland at last.
If you bothered to watch the review (granted it was my first review and super long), then you would know you're supposed to put the front blade at the bottom of the rear V-notch.
Mussolini was a charismatic leader but a poor strategist, with an obsolete military conception. Italy had the fourth most powerful navy in the world in 1940, but the lack of an aircraft carrier was a disaster. The embargo against Italy lasted only two years (1935-1937) and was not responsible for the low industrial capacity. Only one fact: Italy produced 11,400 aircraft during the war, Great Britain 130,000, and the U.S.: 324,000.
I didn't know. There is a real hatred of Roman Catholics by the Anglican Church as evidenced by the horrible treatment of Irish Catholics(think Black & Tans).Not a stretch to think that Anglican De Winton may have viewed Catholics in Istria as inferior as those in Ireland. Don't know, might not even have been same guy. Anyway, I appreciate all your knowledge and patience with me.
The point it seemed very obvious, "Carcano had a 70 year life span with the Italian Army," is true, as other guns other armies in Europe. Just a clarification for those who could interpret this phrase as arrogant and disparaging.
On your locking lugs, the solid rectangular piece of metal acts as a third locking lug in the event that the other two would fail. The features that I do not like about the Carcano are the safety which is a real pain the ass to engage and disengage, and the sights are not adjustable for elevation, although you can get some windage adjustment by drifting the front sight.
@123mrresidentevil the 6.5 carcano had alot of issues when it first came out with over penitration, I talian soldier's reports stated that often times they would hit someone just to see them pop up afterword. to solve the problem they somehow wheighted down the nose of the bullet so it would tumble that fixed the problem for them. but current manufactures dont do that. they also don't tend to use the right diamiter bullet. anyway try using softpoints next time if you didnt before.
Yes, obviously I was referring to the bolt action rifles used during World War II, and seventy years of life for the design of a good rifle at that time was a reasonable length, no intention to extend this concept to other weapons of that period and no secondary and cryptic concept, just a clarification. Are my comments arrogant? but, what about?, we probably give a different meaning to the word. You think that I thought your response was unnecessarily contemptuous.
@something01992 its basically a copied modification of a mosin nagant right? just chambered for another round? i mean look how similar it is, the magazine, the sight the bolt and the stock.
Good review. Sometimes the camara work was a bit shakey, but keep working on it. When showing things about the rifle, go a bit slower so the camara will follow better. You know a lot of history of the piece. THAT IS VERY GOOD!!! Most vids on You-Tube don't give enough of the history. I've always thought the main reason for owning a milsurp weapon was for the history. The history is what truly makes it interesting. Anyway, I thought your presentation was good. I'll subscribe. Good Shooting.
Yes......... And? I think I am missing your point. By the by, the Lee-Enfield was in service longer than that, it wasn't completely phased out until the 1960's (mostly as a training weapon) and even longer in the Indian army, I own one that is in .308 dated 1964 Ishapore India.
@Ratkill9000 The Carcano action does not facilitate tapping and drilling for a scope because of it's clip loading system. A 91/30 would be a better choice for a hunting rifle. Just know that if you scope it, you destroy its historical value. Personally, I would go for a Remington 700 in .270, .308, .30-06, etc because your choice of hunting ammo would be much greater.
All you really need to do to make a spitzer bullet is just change the dies/molds you make your ammo in. Is it worth getting a gun like this? I love shooting guns and white tail deer hunting? I've been thinking of getting a Mosin-Nagant 1891/1930 for myself. But i like the Carcano better because its easier to mount a scope on it.
@1joshjosh1 Thank you! Hearing people say their brains are full of info means that I've done my job well. And I've heard Canada has very strict gun laws, word down here is that you need a permit to sharpen a pencil up there. Once I get a job here at college, I'll hopefully buy a sling, cleaning rod, and bayonet for my Carcano. Best of luck on your purchase, the Carcano rifles have an undeserved reputation for being crap, try and exploit that and get the guy to lower the price :)
I feel ashamed. I've owned a 1942 Mannlicher-Carcano for 4 years, and didn't know my model was called the M1891/41 until now. I'll remember that. I haven't shot it yet because ammo for it is scarce as Hell. The 6-round en bloc clips are easy to use though, disassembly is relatively easy/simple, and for an infantry rifle it's fairly light compared to say an M91/30, M1 Rifle, No.4 Mk.I or even the SKS. Personally I find its bolt is the least smooth I've ever handled, but it's still a fine rifle.
Do you by any chance know if the M91/41's had the option of a bent down bolt handle? I've seen some pictures of the bent down bolt handled M91/41's and was questionable about that. Thanks.
The Carcano action was made from a very good grade of steel and was forged. The Germans chamberd many Carcano's for the 7.92x57mm ie 8mm Mauser cartridge which developed around 49,000 psi with many of the loadings. Worked fine in the K-98 and MG-42 machine gun and worked evidently OK in the Carcano action. There were many technicial innovations like gain twist rifling ending in about 1 turn in 8 to stabilize the long 160 gr bullet. Hand rubbing my 91' with boiled linseed oil. Very good review.
You're mistaken!!! Italians actually adopted a spitzer bullet from national development and it was the 7.35 x 51mm Carcano by 1938, but the declaration of war made by Mussolini and the difficulty of recovering from 6 years of war in Ethiopia and Spain came out with the same results: confusion, because the 6.5 x 52mm was still in wide use! Still, they adopted a very effective round, but always lighter than the other current international standards. So Italians reverted to the 6.5mm round...
Under rated. Good little rifle. Bought one with 1,000 rounds of ammo for $25 back in 1965 or 66. If you had cash and 16 years old they were available.
Gunny SEA here with a good review for your first go at explaining this weapons system to the General public and old Grunts like myself. Your presentation was like an uncle or older brother speaking to a younger person who you really wanted to understand the basic INFO about this CARCANO 91/41 & IT'S Variants. Your only weak point is knowing the Nomenclature of the Weapon You are discussing...But if you did not know diddle squat about this rifle before someone should now. You made it easy to understand how it functioned so most people could run this rifle and use it if they needed too. You can always get a manual to learn the Muzzle from the Butt Stock.
Thank You,
Gunny SEA
Sir i can tell from personal experience this rifle is very powerful and very accurate....
Thank you for having supported my theory. Some guys mocked the Italian army during World War II to have a 1891 rifle, but I just wanted to point out that all the major armies during the WWII had bold action rifles of the late nineteenth century, as Lee Enfield (1895) or the Mauser Karabiner (1898) or as the rifle you mentioned, Mosin-Nagant, which was of 1891 as the Carcano.
We didn't adopted spitzer bullets in the army, but we designed a cartridge in 1938 that used spitzer bullet and was meant to be adopted by the army and by the fascist police (7,35x51 carcano). We never officially adopted that cartridge because the war started before reacing a decent numbers of guns chambered for it and because the high commands didn't wanted to create confusion deploying two different calibers on the front.
Thank you, I have had this gun for 27 years and never knew what it was. Great review. I now plan on shooting it.
+Jimi Campbell Thank you for the kind words! This was my first review, and I had so much to learn. I've thought about redoing this one in HD because I have a new camera and editing software. Ammo can be hard to find these days, but it's worth it, in my opinion, to hear these old war dogs bark again.
Charles' Milsurp Firearms please do another video, fairly simple gun but you managed to do 3 vids for Mauser 98 and smle. would love some more milsurp reviews on either this or any other guns, if you could get your hands on a mas 36 that would be awesome
actually italy adopted 2 spitzer type ammunition, the AP cartridge for model 91 weapons (wich was mainly used in machine guns such as FIAT 1914)and the special cartridge for marksman competition, just for interest the SMI on the clip means Società Metallurgica Italiana; by the way the gain twist designed by maj.Garelli was meant to solve the problem of bullets loosing the jackets and was found that it also helped in reduced barrel wear.
any way gratz.. very good review
@lollodj You're absolutely right. Italy in 1939 was not ready for WWII. Italy did not have enough Lire, to modernize her navy, army (ie replacing the 1891 series rifles and carbines and new tanks), airforce, etc. Italy can be proud however, of the performance of her Bersaglieri and Folgore during the campaigns in North Africa. And yes, I realize this review was very long. My future reviews will come in three parts: History, Operation and Maintainance, and Accessories.
Small comment, Carcano was the chief engineer of the Royal Arsenal that designed the action. The Commission was set up by the Minister of war, Pallavicino. The Mannlicher reference was in fact for the magazine/clip system, which was modified by the Italians.
i just aquired a Carcano, got to look up the numbers and see exactly what's going on with it. can't wait to hit the field and see how she shoots.
Great Video, I just picked up a Calvary Carbine in 6.5x52mm
You've convinced me to finally purchase a Carcano. My Great-grandfather carried such a rifle during WW2, but I was under the impression that they were not a good rifle at all, from other opnions, at least now I have the right information, great review.
I have had numerous conversations w/ WWII Italian veterans. Il Duce was a charismatic leader,but lacked skills needed for strong military.(Sound familiar?) Mussolini downplayed need for aircraft carriers, claiming peninsula was a natural carrier! Innovative, clever ideas such as Italian semi-auto rifle, and fighter planes, but as you mentioned lacked industrial capacity. Embargo by colonial powers against Italy stunted progress.Not downplaying important, pivotal, and significant role of M-1.
R stands for rim, just pointing that out, not Russian.
Daniel Goodman
The performance of Italian army during the Second World War were due to a lack of military resources and a low industrial capacity, compared with both Great Britain and especially with the U.S. In other words, the Italian army military lacked aircraft, tanks and guns enough, also because Italy had bled militarily in the Spanish Civil War. U.S. forces were the first to be massive equipped with semi-automatic rifle, like the M1 Garand and this also had an important weight in the Allied victories
The part you touched at 8:23 is called the "Striker" I got a Model 1938 dated 1941 for $25 last month! Thank you for uploading!
You are right about bullet damage being less lethal than expected. The first proof of this came during the italo turkish war, where the tribal North africans loyal to the ottomans had some british medics unoffically helping them. They wrote extensively about their work and most reported that if an artery or bone was not hit the bleeding was not really extensive. Soldiers without infection could return to batte relatively soon.
The German General Staff preferred to sacrifice Italians rather than the Germans, Italians were expendable. In the battle of Nikolayevka on the Russian front, the Italian 8th Army paid the highest price for allowing the Axis forces to reach Šebekino, outside the Soviet "pincer". In the battle of El alamin the Italians paid the highest price as well, while the Germans retreated quickly from the front. The Folgore division fought until the end and the Ariete Armoured Division was annihilated.
Hornady is an ammunition manufacturer, you can buy Hornady cartridges at gun stores and online.
Salvatore Carcano (stress the first Silab Cár - ca - no) was a barrel rifling expert at the factory.
@Gjldo Hmm, I completely forgot to research armor piercing rounds in the 6.5x52mm caliber :/ And thanks for the additional information, you Italians probably have more books and other reading material available to you than me. Anyways, I'm glad you liked it, I'll make more rifle reviews when I get home from college for break.
Yes, Hornady's rounds are supposed to be the correct diameter. Prvi uses standard sized 6.5mm rounds that are .264, but the bore of the Carcano is really .267 I believe.
Ppu 139 grain bullet with UPC b605 is the proper diameter. I ask this question to them via email.that was their response
Thanks for the kind words. As for an excellent quality Carcano, it will depend on many factors. Carcano rifles saw a lot of hard service and an "excellent" condition one will probably have been refurbished after the war, like mine. I don't know too much about today's Carcano market, it's not something I keep track of closely. Mine was about $300 after all transfer fees and shipping, I think, and that was in 2010. The price has definitely gone way up since then though.
The first deer I ever killed was with my dad's, it blew a 3" hole through the chest and took out the heart. It was only about a 60 yd shot, but was impressive. Shooting targets st 100yds, you can tell when the bullet hits it begins tumbling, because the hole would be oblong. It held a decent 1" group(open sights). That was 35 years ago when I could see good though.
I have one 1940 Model 91/38 Short Rifle, Its my grandfather's from WW2 (he was in partisans so the rifle was probably captured) anyway the rifle was in the basement in my village since the end of WW2, I found it 2 years ago and I couldnt rotate the bolt, but now when I cleaned it it works great :) its still in good shape just had some minor surface corosion... The barel is in great shape from inside, it still can kill someone :D beautifull rifle ;)
Thanks for a fair and informative review. I'm a defender of the Carcano myself but I won't be buying one until I start reloading or the price of the Hornady ammo goes down.
@CCRfreak96 Much appreciated. Just warning you, the brass clips can be a bit more fragile than the blued steel ones. They were both meant to be one time use, but you can play with the lips of the clip to get you to last a while. Depending on the bore of your Carcano, you can use .264 diameter rounds from Prvi Partizan, but actual Italian rounds of the era used .268 diameter bullets. Hornady makes 160 grain round nose rounds with the proper bullets,but they cost ~ 28 dollars a box.
@DEOXYS987 No. They're are completely different. The Carcano is a licensed copy of the Mannlicher magazine system using controlled feed. It uses an en-bloc clip to hold the rounds. The clip is effectively part of the rifle until the last round is chambered and falls out. The Mosin Nagant has a integral magazine that has a push feed where the extractor doesn't gain control of the round until the bolt is turned down. The reason the magazines protrude is because they're both single column designs.
people think it's inaccurate because they shoot the wrong type of round is this true??
excellent historical review. very clear. and simple & elegant.
M91/41 rifles were all made with straight bolts. The bent bolts are for carbines and short rifles. All 6.5mm Carcano bolts should be interchangeable.
@starwarsman96 I bought the Hornady off of graf and sons' website. The Prvi partizan stuff I either buy locally or from graf's website. And yeah, it's expensive. I've only brought my Carcano to the range twice since I got it.
Thank you,my brain is now full of info.
I have always been a little worried to fork out the bucks on one of these.
I think this video changed my mind...Thank you.
@DEOXYS987 Not at all, the Carcano uses a very humped sight with two V-notches where you're supposed to aim with the notch at the bottom of the v-notch, while the Mosin Nagant has a ramp style sight single U-notch where you're supposed to aim level with the top of the U. The Carcano rear sight has a battle setting of 200 meters and goes to 1000 meters. The Mosin Nagant has no battle setting and goes from 100-2000 meters.
It seems the website no longer exists. This video was made nearly 2 years ago.
I have spoken to an actual survivor or Foibe, who laid quiet for days surrounded by dead and dying bodies. Also have seen books and pictures. Oddly, at one point I spoke to a Yugo plumber who emigrated to US and bragged about his time killing Italian civilians.(He's now dead, hopefully burning in Hell.)Of course in some circles in US plumber was considered some type of hero.
Perhaps simply General De Winton did not want to antagonize the Titoists and then the British generally hated the Italians who had declared war on them, but they are just my speculations. You may know the "Bleiburg repatriations", where, in May 1945, the Titoists killed thousands of Croats (estimates range from 50,000 to 100,000), accusing them of being Ustashe, in reality there were also many innocent civilians, or people with limited liability.
@Jeffs45rpm I was under the impression that 7.92x57mm developed pressures of over 50,000 PSI. Then again, I'm no expert on cartridges beyond initial things like diameter and muzzle velocities.
Well, the Lee-Enfield was used by the British for 61 years (1895-1956) and the Mauser Karabiner 98k rifle was derived directly from the Mauser Gewehr 98, 1898, ie, all bolt-action rifles of the World War II armies derived directly from the rifles of the late nineteenth century or early twentieth century as the Springfield M1903.
M91/41 does not have the gain twist rifling in it only the earlier rifles, also please be careful with the .268 bullets I've miked a range of projectiles from the pre war and wartime production and they come in at .266 , I had 2 massive case failures one came out like a belted magnum with a .22 sized primer pocket, strong rifles to be sure
Should have added some short rifles were cut down m91 and had bad accuracy due to the gain twist tubes,
I did not know that the steel that made the Carcanos were from Czechloslovakia.I own a Czech VZ 22 Infantry Rifle and its great quality steel.Yes the Swedes may have good steel but the VZ 22s and 24s have seen more combat.The Carcanos are good rifles,the recoil is very light like the Swede and very accurate.The clips are very hard to find.The 91/41s are the best for me but my freind owns it and Im impressed for being a Mauser guy.
So the rim is too big for my en-bloc but both the rounds and en-block are for my 6.5x52 1940 Carcano.
@johnrocks937 True, however I was told that the Italians didn't want to pay Mauser royalties for his rifle, and thus adopted the Carcano.
@TheEltopian Thank you for your advice! Sometimes I had to hold the camera by hand because my tripod didn't go high enough. Also, the camera has no focus. I'll need to upgrade sometime soon. I'm also working on saying, "um, uh" less and being more consise. My next review will be on the Mauser Kar98k, when I get home again in late Feb. Rather than making a 40 min long video, I'm going to divide it into 3 parts. History, Operation and function, and ammunition and acessories. Thank you again!
Something01992: I really enjoyed your video. It was very educational and I learned a lot. I can tell that you cherish the history of guns and of course firing them! I'm interested in guns as well. It's my dream to one day own a collection of guns.
I just hope that by the time I can purchase guns of my own that the military surplus stores won't run out of them. It might be another 8 or 10 years before I start building my collection.
Great video!
@Warbirdguy1 Lol, it's not my website, the closest thing I have to my own website besides this channel is my facebook account. Regarding your bolt, I think my bolt does the same thing. That's because there's space between the bolt its down position, and the slanted surface that it cams against to achieve initial extraction and cocking the bolt. However, I don't have any pictures or videos of your rifle, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
All guns can use the sight EFFECTIVELY in four positions of alignment. By putting the post at the bottom of the RS (rear sight[groove/pinhole]), putting the post at the center of the RS like a peep, leveling the post with the RS, or for aiming high leveling the RS with a significant point below the post like where it connects to the barrel, etc. Sights are just lining multiple points and knowing the impact.
@Ratkill9000 I did know it stood for rimmed, but I used the two interchangeably at the time. I still do when I'm talking to different people. Some people know that when you say "Seven, six, two by fifty four rimmed" is a Russian cartridge and others don't.
@something01992 I was mistaken on the model. It is a much older model. This one is pre WW1. In fact, it's stamped 1899 Terni. The stock has been replaced.
@Gjldo I was aware of the fact that Italy had to pay 300,000 lire to Ferdinand von Mannlicher for the rights to use his clip system. Italy based its clip off of the German Gewehr 88. It's also better than the Austrian version because it can be loaded either way into the magazine. I think that Itally personally should have adopted a mauser system with a stripper clip feed. The Belgians adopted the 1889 Model Mauser. I'm sure the commission had its reasons and it's all history now.
Very enjoyable review - thank you. There seems to be little information available on these rifles. I want one but the enclock clip system is bugging me.
@123mrresidentevil Shot placement? Did you use the correct sight picture (blade at the bottom of the V)? Did you use soft point bullets? Were you using proper diameter bullets? Hornady uses correct .268 diameter roundnose bullets correct for the Carcano. Prvi partizan uses incorrect 139 grain .264 diameter bullets. Also, do the basic physics. The 6.5x52mm Carcano shoots a 160 grain bullet going approx. 2200 feet per second from the muzzle. The M1 carbine shoots a 110 grain bullet 1900 feet/sec.
BTW yes that means you can zero your sights to however you want if you didnt get the memo. I personally use all four methods depending on range to make up for bullet drop, in the order I listed closest to farthest. Heck I've been into sights, toyed with shotgun ribs, red dot, etched glass, lining up 3 sights at once, I'll have to put up a video on that soon.
Great review, thanks for taking the time.
Very good review! Very knowledgeable! Interesting rifle.
@something01992 Bty, I love your website, I saw it before I actual;y knew you were on UA-cam. A question on operation. My bolt has some play in it. The locking lugs engage but the handle rotates freely for ~1/4 of an inch. It does not come free from the locking lugs but this concerns me. Any inputs?
Thank you,my brain is now full of info.
I have always been a little worried to fork out the bucks on one of these.
I think this video changed my mind...Thank you.
P.S I have also gotten a part for a rifle[sling,bayonet...]befor the rifle it self.
Makes you want to save the money more.In Canada mil surps tend to be $100
more or so then they would be in the U.S.Got to think before you buy.
Swedish Cavalry Carbines have huge front blades and rear V notch. They are very easy to sight with.
French rifles also have really large, chunky sights. I don't know if I've ever handled a Swedish cavalry carbine, but I know their fortress carbines have tiny v-notch sights with a tiny blade in the front covered by two, large, wings that really make sighting down one of those a real pain.
I have one too , still works
I don't know what year it is though
Moisen Nagants were still in Soviet inventory at fall(1991) and Soviets were still issuing them (as M44 carbines) in the '80s in Angola.Indian police could be seen w/ SMLE's during Mumbai massacre, Lybians seen recently w/Carcanos. Mausers still very common among police and paramilitary units in Central So. America.More powerful ctg and ability for more accurate fire still valued in some settings.FYI:In Iraq, troops rather civilians have AKs than more powerful Mausers or SMLE that pierce armor
@Gjldo Lol, of course. I should have realized that, whatever cost less lire the Italians would have gone with lol. Thanks for all your information. Perhaps someday, when I have the time, I'll re-make this video review and include everything you've written here.
Thank you for the kind words :)
@123mrresidentevil Depending on which Carcano you used, and assuming you used the lowest sight setting (the battle sight), if you sighted the rifle properly (blade at bottom of the V-notch) the height of the bullet at 100 yards is anywhere from +5.25 inches to +13.75 inches. If you used the regular Mauser style sight picture (blade even with the V-notch), you will have shot much higher. So lesson here is that you probably screwed up, not the round.
Cool video. Watch it because my class mate brought one in to the droms and asked if we know what it was and no one had any ideal what it was. So wen I sall ur video I watch it and learned a lot I will tell him what j learned here and advise him to watch ur video too. Thank you
Thank you! I should probably remake this video, since it was my first and it's quite amateurish.
Yes. That be cool
@Warbirdguy1 Lol, yeah it was my first time reviewing anything and I was still new to the field. And $25? That's crazy! Nice catch, mine cost me about $300.
@themoparguy Depends on condition, I got mine for $300 shipped, including FFL fees. That was October of 2010 though.
Czech steel is good because the Czechs produced the Model 1922s,1924s,and Persian Mausers which were exported throughout the world.I have a 1922 made for the Turks and this rifle has excellent combat accuracy which I shoot out to 400 yards on steel targets with great results.Its fun to shoot because the rifle cost me $75 at Big 5.
Also this was my first review, and I was still learning a lot about rifles and editing and such.
@MrRichardsSmoker Um, no it isn't. My friend's dad is from Italy and I asked him how to pronounce it prior to making this video and it is car-can-o with a rolled "r" and a flowing Italian accent. If I had pronounced it wrong, the two thousand or so Italians that have seen this video probably would have corrected me. So congradulations, you failed, troll harder next time.
I think you are referring to Brigadier General W. De Winton, he was killed as he passed in review his men. He was killed by Maria Pasquinelli, who had witnessed the atrocities committed by Tito's men and she regarded the British jointly responsible.
@CCRfreak96 I buy most my ammo locally. If you're after Hornady, try midwayusa, graf and sons. Those are the two that I can think of that would probably carry it.
@DEOXYS987 Not to mention that the sights are completely different.
@chauchat3137 Yes. I mentioned it somewhere in this review.
Great video and info Charles. Do you think that Oswald did indeed take the rifle down, then assemble it on the morning in question ?
@something01992 actually an italian guy from tourin arsenal (wich was the arsenal that designed the prototype that went into production: the 1ter) designed a feeding sistem for it, but royalites for it where 0.10 lire for each sistem build, now since italy was planning to build over the years more then 3milion rifles, mannlicher solution was considered cheaper
I would buy a 6.5mm Carcano M38 in a 21" barrel. But I want the best one there is: well preserved, perfectly clean and with plenty of 123 grn. ammo.
Recent studies estimated that during the retreat, 70,000 Italian soldiers were captured by the Russians, among them at least 22,000 died during the marches and the transfer of those early months of imprisonment, and, because of emergency conditions in which were both prisoners and the guards, were not even counted, the other 48,000 who arrived in the prison camps, only 10,000 (just one in five) were able to survive and return to their homeland at last.
Exelente video felicitaciones
If you bothered to watch the review (granted it was my first review and super long), then you would know you're supposed to put the front blade at the bottom of the rear V-notch.
I have a 1938, I REALLY want that Carcano!
Mussolini was a charismatic leader but a poor strategist, with an obsolete military conception. Italy had the fourth most powerful navy in the world in 1940, but the lack of an aircraft carrier was a disaster. The embargo against Italy lasted only two years (1935-1937) and was not responsible for the low industrial capacity. Only one fact: Italy produced 11,400 aircraft during the war, Great Britain 130,000, and the U.S.: 324,000.
I didn't know. There is a real hatred of Roman Catholics by the Anglican Church as evidenced by the horrible treatment of Irish Catholics(think Black & Tans).Not a stretch to think that Anglican De Winton may have viewed Catholics in Istria as inferior as those in Ireland. Don't know, might not even have been same guy. Anyway, I appreciate all your knowledge and patience with me.
The point it seemed very obvious, "Carcano had a 70 year life span with the Italian Army," is true, as other guns other armies in Europe. Just a clarification for those who could interpret this phrase as arrogant and disparaging.
On your locking lugs, the solid rectangular piece of metal acts as a third locking lug in the event that the other two would fail. The features that I do not like about the Carcano are the safety which is a real pain the ass to engage and disengage, and the sights are not adjustable for elevation, although you can get some windage adjustment by drifting the front sight.
sweet review
@123mrresidentevil the 6.5 carcano had alot of issues when it first came out with over penitration, I talian soldier's reports stated that often times they would hit someone just to see them pop up afterword. to solve the problem they somehow wheighted down the nose of the bullet so it would tumble that fixed the problem for them. but current manufactures dont do that. they also don't tend to use the right diamiter bullet.
anyway try using softpoints next time if you didnt before.
Yes, obviously I was referring to the bolt action rifles used during World War II, and seventy years of life for the design of a good rifle at that time was a reasonable length, no intention to extend this concept to other weapons of that period and no secondary and cryptic concept, just a clarification. Are my comments arrogant? but, what about?, we probably give a different meaning to the word. You think that I thought your response was unnecessarily contemptuous.
@something01992 its basically a copied modification of a mosin nagant right? just chambered for another round? i mean look how similar it is, the magazine, the sight the bolt and the stock.
The 6.5x52mm was actually a better performing round than the 7.35x52mm.
Good review. Sometimes the camara work was a bit shakey, but keep working on it. When showing things about the rifle, go a bit slower so the camara will follow better. You know a lot of history of the piece. THAT IS VERY GOOD!!! Most vids on You-Tube don't give enough of the history. I've always thought the main reason for owning a milsurp weapon was for the history. The history is what truly makes it interesting. Anyway, I thought your presentation was good. I'll subscribe. Good Shooting.
Yes......... And? I think I am missing your point.
By the by, the Lee-Enfield was in service longer than that, it wasn't completely phased out until the 1960's (mostly as a training weapon) and even longer in the Indian army, I own one that is in .308 dated 1964 Ishapore India.
@Ratkill9000 The Carcano action does not facilitate tapping and drilling for a scope because of it's clip loading system. A 91/30 would be a better choice for a hunting rifle. Just know that if you scope it, you destroy its historical value. Personally, I would go for a Remington 700 in .270, .308, .30-06, etc because your choice of hunting ammo would be much greater.
All you really need to do to make a spitzer bullet is just change the dies/molds you make your ammo in.
Is it worth getting a gun like this? I love shooting guns and white tail deer hunting? I've been thinking of getting a Mosin-Nagant 1891/1930 for myself. But i like the Carcano better because its easier to mount a scope on it.
@1joshjosh1 Thank you! Hearing people say their brains are full of info means that I've done my job well.
And I've heard Canada has very strict gun laws, word down here is that you need a permit to sharpen a pencil up there. Once I get a job here at college, I'll hopefully buy a sling, cleaning rod, and bayonet for my Carcano.
Best of luck on your purchase, the Carcano rifles have an undeserved reputation for being crap, try and exploit that and get the guy to lower the price :)
You did a nice job.
I feel ashamed. I've owned a 1942 Mannlicher-Carcano for 4 years, and didn't know my model was called the M1891/41 until now. I'll remember that. I haven't shot it yet because ammo for it is scarce as Hell. The 6-round en bloc clips are easy to use though, disassembly is relatively easy/simple, and for an infantry rifle it's fairly light compared to say an M91/30, M1 Rifle, No.4 Mk.I or even the SKS. Personally I find its bolt is the least smooth I've ever handled, but it's still a fine rifle.
@something01992 I didnt know it was supposed to be at the bottom of the V..... that explains alot.
Do you by any chance know if the M91/41's had the option of a bent down bolt handle? I've seen some pictures of the bent down bolt handled M91/41's and was questionable about that. Thanks.