Remember the grandma saying she doesn't like sleeping alone???? So did she know he was sleeping with her. I mean that is so beyond inappropriate. My husband and I got together when my daughter was 5 she's 14 now. He has never once slept with her in a bed. That's just crazy to me.
Because Jen and SS claimed Maddie could not sleep alone due to anxiety. I am sure Jen could have had a good night's sleep with just Maddie next to her, like she did every time she broke up with SS. Just her and Maddie in the twin bed. She could have let him sleep in Maddie's bed, so he could have had a "good night's sleep". Apparently that option never crossed Jen's mind. For some effed up reason the three of them had to be in one bed. It makes zero sense.
There you go. But he still had access to this girl. Why didn't Mommy pull Maddie's single mattress from the bed in the living room and plop it on the floor so Maddie's tossing and turning would not disturb her. You heard the Woody Allen reference where Jenn worried they would run off together when she turned eighteen. I am hoping they are just collecting more evidence. Time will tell.
And why wouldn't SS have gotten the forgotten cell phones when going back to get the gate clicker? He's an awful liar, and even when faced with photos of her baby assaulted by SS, she still denied it. Blind!! Poor Madeline didn't have a chance being forced to sleep alone with him, too. It's hard to find a defense for that 'mom' goes. Lying when your child is missing? It's all sickening.
Stephan says there was much discussion about going to McDonald’s but that contradicts the statement he gave that Madeline was asleep most of the way to school. This guy is a horrible liar
Gray Hughes- I am thrilled to hear you talking about Jennifer Soto with common sense. I've argued with people all day that we don't know all the facts, put yourself in her shoes and look at things rationally. Bravo, I agree with everything you said. Thank God you have the guts to shoot down ridiculous assumptions conspiracies . Thank you!
Zo Zo is right. No, I wouldn't lie to the police about having seen my daughter. It is about finding MY daughter who might be in danger! The police need to know everything. Every detail, every second counts. The truth and nothing but the truth. When my child is missing and possibly in danger I wouldn't lie for the father of my child, let alone for an on/off boyfriend, who only recently moved back in again. I wouldn't lie about "calling him if he could take Maddie to school, cause I wanted to get some more sleep", while he spent the night there?! (His car was at the house, so she must have known if she came home late, which she apparently didn't, because she claimed she saw Maddie that Sunday night. Or is that also a lie?). The fact that my boyfriend would ask me to lie at a moment like that would set off at least 1 alarm bell. I wouldn't give a sh*t if the truth might make my on/off boyfriend look suspicious to the police. He already was the number 1 suspect! He is the last person that was with Maddie! So no, I would not lie about if I had seen the most important person in my life that morning. All I would care about is finding my daughter. It doesn't need an above average IQ to know what matters at a moment like that. Hell, not even an average. Remember in the interviews that Jen gave to the local press, she said that she believed Maddie was taken against her will (and she already kind of lost hope). In both interviews she was coherent, spoke about having checked Maddie's Social Media (Gaming?) accounts, called her girlfriends, talked about her laptop being turned off, so no pings. She did not come over as a low IQ person to me. Just a little bit too calm maybe. If she was threatened by SS to lie, all she had to do is walk out, go to the police. Her fear for her daughter would have overruled her possible fear of SS. She was comforting him after the interview, remember? She should zero fear to me. Of course I could be wrong about everything. But at this point, knowing what we know now (her letting her 13 year old daughter sleep in the same bed with SS, the guy who knew when it was Maddie's "time of the month") I believe Jen knew but "chose not to know".
he easily could have guilted her into saying things not believing he was responsible. She even twice said...that he dropped her off at school breaking from the script. Seems really obvious. LOts of people who think THEY wouldn't do something doesn't mean others wouldn't if they trusted the person an felt guilty for not giving the ride.
@@GrayHughesInvestigates Yeah, he could have . Or she just made the choice herself. She could have broken from the script one more time when it really counted, and not lie about seeing her daughter. She is grown up, she chose to lie. For no good reason, but to protect him. Kind regards, A proud holier than thou crowd member.
She was probably very confused. It probably didn't make sense to her why he would take her to school so early and drop her off so far from school. She was probably trying to figure it out in her brain and was freaked out.
Being a parent does not automatically make one a good or mentally healthy person. Gray, people are not “crazy” because they have different opinions than you. You take stuff too personally.
@@kat4005 it wasn't. your brain heard something that wasn't said. "Being a parent does not automatically make one a good or mentally healthy person." is what I am referring to.
@@GrayHughesInvestigates. Let me clarify, please. The discussion was in regards to children sleeping with adults (men). The implication (to me) was that a bio father was probably safe. I only intended to state that if someone has the proclivity to molest children it could as well be a bio dad as a boyfriend. See convo, for example, at 34:10. It was a big thing to sleep with our grandchildren (boys and girls). We giggled, told stories, feigned sleep to the parents and watched cartoons when everyone went to sleep. Children sleeping with adults is controversial but for us it was a bonding thing for kids, grands and great grands.
Gray, I agree with you. I think Stephan could have even said remember when Caylee went missing. I think she made some really poor choices, but I don't think she knew, especially when the officer showed her the awful photo as proof and she got emotional.
Gray - perhaps Allen saw Betsy Blair & left platform 1 to follow/ stalk her then Abby & Libby pass then he does a u-turn, waits until they get most of the way across then strikes? PS- Mary Lou- what did you do with the money (from singing lessons?)
@thomasadrian9854. I actually believe that is the most likely scenario..Steve of True Crime Web was the first person I ever heard who suggested that as a possibility. Steve did a video proving that the bridge can be seen slightly over 2 minutes before arriving at it. Blair saw Allen on platform 1 at 153 and turned around. In just 3 minutes she would pass the girls..However, using Steve's tests, less than one minute after Blair turned around and started walking away, Abby and Libby arrived at the point they could see the bridge..This left Allen insufficient time to walk to the South End and off the bridge to hide without being seen. And we know for a fact that Allen's final approach came from the North...For Allen to make his final approach from the North and be North of them to do it, he had to pass them on the trail North of the bridge. somewhere between 155 and 158 pm ..It's possible he may have seen the girls come around the corner at 154 and decided to walk past them and wait until they got way out on the bridge to trap them..But it's also possible that Blair was his initial target and he immediately followed her back up the trail with Malicious intent and then 1 minute later he saw the girls come around the corner and decided then that they would be his target after he was assured again that they got way out on the bridge..I think with these crimes one would have to be in a psychotic state of mind in that moment to go through with it..I believe he went there to kill the first person(s) he could isolate, and not necessarily targeting Libby and Abby beforehand or even knowing they were coming.. I think its possible the reason he denied seeing Betsy Blair is because only he knew of his previous malicious intent towards her.. Then when the girls came around the bend he saw them as the more viable option because they were headed for his more desirable trap...The Bridge..But the fact that Blair saw him at 153 and turned around , and we know that Libby took a photo of the the Bridge looking south at 203 and no one was there definitely means Allen passed them somewhere between 153 and 203..What was the motivating factor for his movement North off the Bridge between 153 and 203 ? Was it Blair, or was it the girls coming around the corner ? Again, his denial in seeing Blair makes me believe he did indeed go after Blair first.. I may be wrong, and we may never know for sure, but I hope we find out.
I am curious if any of the people who saw RA were able to make a positive ID that he is who they saw? Just for the record, I believe from the information it is him,just never heard if their was an actual ID made or that who they saw just looked like the guy in the video.
Biological father? My father would NEVER sleep in the same bed if I was 13. If I had a problem and was anxious, he would probably send my mother in or bring an armchair into the room to sit by my bed until I fell asleep, never in my bed. It is my FATHER who would put these boundaries in place by sleeping in the same room, either in another bed but most likely he would pull in an armchair and sleep next to me. And of course we trusted him. When a girl hits puberty there are BOUDARIES and these boundaries exist in every culture. I can see where a family is travelling and two kids and two parents go in one hotel room if on the road. There is no way to whitewash this mother's involvement and I guess you are playing devil's advocate here. She is guilty of a lot of things she could be arrested for already, if not for murder. Covering up after a crime and lying to give him an alibi is against the law. That used to be the law in my state; not sure what the law is in Florida. So far I am not impressed with CPS, teachers, relatives and roommates in this case.
Remember the grandma saying she doesn't like sleeping alone???? So did she know he was sleeping with her. I mean that is so beyond inappropriate. My husband and I got together when my daughter was 5 she's 14 now. He has never once slept with her in a bed. That's just crazy to me.
Why wouldn't she sleep in her room and him on the couch if Jen wanted to be alone in her room.
Because Jen and SS claimed Maddie could not sleep alone due to anxiety. I am sure Jen could have had a good night's sleep with just Maddie next to her, like she did every time she broke up with SS. Just her and Maddie in the twin bed. She could have let him sleep in Maddie's bed, so he could have had a "good night's sleep". Apparently that option never crossed Jen's mind. For some effed up reason the three of them had to be in one bed. It makes zero sense.
There you go. But he still had access to this girl. Why didn't Mommy pull Maddie's single mattress from the bed in the living room and plop it on the floor so Maddie's tossing and turning would not disturb her. You heard the Woody Allen reference where Jenn worried they would run off together when she turned eighteen. I am hoping they are just collecting more evidence. Time will tell.
It's not because the dad would do anything... It's not ok for the teen... Just like it wouldn't be ok for a13 year old boy to sleep with his mom
And why wouldn't SS have gotten the forgotten cell phones when going back to get the gate clicker? He's an awful liar, and even when faced with photos of her baby assaulted by SS, she still denied it. Blind!! Poor Madeline didn't have a chance being forced to sleep alone with him, too. It's hard to find a defense for that 'mom' goes. Lying when your child is missing? It's all sickening.
It's not possible that Jennifer didn't ignore red flags. The SA was so frequent and brutal that there had to be red flags
Stephan says there was much discussion about going to McDonald’s but that contradicts the statement he gave that Madeline was asleep most of the way to school. This guy is a horrible liar
Gray Hughes- I am thrilled to hear you talking about Jennifer Soto with common sense. I've argued with people all day that we don't know all the facts, put yourself in her shoes and look at things rationally. Bravo, I agree with everything you said. Thank God you have the guts to shoot down ridiculous assumptions conspiracies . Thank you!
Zo Zo is right.
No, I wouldn't lie to the police about having seen my daughter. It is about finding MY daughter who might be in danger! The police need to know everything. Every detail, every second counts. The truth and nothing but the truth.
When my child is missing and possibly in danger I wouldn't lie for the father of my child, let alone for an on/off boyfriend, who only recently moved back in again.
I wouldn't lie about "calling him if he could take Maddie to school, cause I wanted to get some more sleep", while he spent the night there?! (His car was at the house, so she must have known if she came home late, which she apparently didn't, because she claimed she saw Maddie that Sunday night. Or is that also a lie?).
The fact that my boyfriend would ask me to lie at a moment like that would set off at least 1 alarm bell.
I wouldn't give a sh*t if the truth might make my on/off boyfriend look suspicious to the police. He already was the number 1 suspect! He is the last person that was with Maddie!
So no, I would not lie about if I had seen the most important person in my life that morning.
All I would care about is finding my daughter.
It doesn't need an above average IQ to know what matters at a moment like that. Hell, not even an average.
Remember in the interviews that Jen gave to the local press, she said that she believed Maddie was taken against her will (and she already kind of lost hope). In both interviews she was coherent, spoke about having checked Maddie's Social Media (Gaming?) accounts, called her girlfriends, talked about her laptop being turned off, so no pings. She did not come over as a low IQ person to me. Just a little bit too calm maybe.
If she was threatened by SS to lie, all she had to do is walk out, go to the police.
Her fear for her daughter would have overruled her possible fear of SS.
She was comforting him after the interview, remember? She should zero fear to me.
Of course I could be wrong about everything. But at this point, knowing what we know now (her letting her 13 year old daughter sleep in the same bed with SS, the guy who knew when it was Maddie's "time of the month") I believe Jen knew but "chose not to know".
wow a novel. yikes. an 8 year boyfriend that was called her dad.
he easily could have guilted her into saying things not believing he was responsible. She even twice said...that he dropped her off at school breaking from the script. Seems really obvious. LOts of people who think THEY wouldn't do something doesn't mean others wouldn't if they trusted the person an felt guilty for not giving the ride.
@@GrayHughesInvestigates Yeah, he could have . Or she just made the choice herself. She could have broken from the script one more time when it really counted, and not lie about seeing her daughter.
She is grown up, she chose to lie. For no good reason, but to protect him.
Kind regards,
A proud holier than thou crowd member.
@@GrayHughesInvestigatesYou still read that novel though. Thanks!
The period thing is crazy. My husband doesn't even know when mine is especially my 14 year old's. I don't even think he knows she gets them.
She was probably very confused. It probably didn't make sense to her why he would take her to school so early and drop her off so far from school. She was probably trying to figure it out in her brain and was freaked out.
Being a parent does not automatically make one a good or mentally healthy person. Gray, people are not “crazy” because they have different opinions than you. You take stuff too personally.
right nobody said that.
@@GrayHughesInvestigatesit was.
@@kat4005 it wasn't. your brain heard something that wasn't said. "Being a parent does not automatically make one a good or mentally healthy person." is what I am referring to.
@@GrayHughesInvestigates. Let me clarify, please. The discussion was in regards to children sleeping with adults (men). The implication (to me) was that a bio father was probably safe. I only intended to state that if someone has the proclivity to molest children it could as well be a bio dad as a boyfriend. See convo, for example, at 34:10.
It was a big thing to sleep with our grandchildren (boys and girls). We giggled, told stories, feigned sleep to the parents and watched cartoons when everyone went to sleep. Children sleeping with adults is controversial but for us it was a bonding thing for kids, grands and great grands.
Gray, I agree with you. I think Stephan could have even said remember when Caylee went missing. I think she made some really poor choices, but I don't think she knew, especially when the officer showed her the awful photo as proof and she got emotional.
Very early on she kept referring to Maddie in the PAST TENSE. HELLO!!
Can you not whistle? You keep alerting my dogs, or I cannot watch
Gray - perhaps Allen saw Betsy Blair & left platform 1 to follow/ stalk her then Abby & Libby pass then he does a u-turn, waits until they get most of the way across then strikes? PS- Mary Lou- what did you do with the money (from singing lessons?)
lol
sure, I guess anything is possible. I doubt it though. would be to risky back that way down the trail
@thomasadrian9854. I actually believe that is the most likely scenario..Steve of True Crime Web was the first person I ever heard who suggested that as a possibility. Steve did a video proving that the bridge can be seen slightly over 2 minutes before arriving at it. Blair saw Allen on platform 1 at 153 and turned around. In just 3 minutes she would pass the girls..However, using Steve's tests, less than one minute after Blair turned around and started walking away, Abby and Libby arrived at the point they could see the bridge..This left Allen insufficient time to walk to the South End and off the bridge to hide without being seen. And we know for a fact that Allen's final approach came from the North...For Allen to make his final approach from the North and be North of them to do it, he had to pass them on the trail North of the bridge. somewhere between 155 and 158 pm ..It's possible he may have seen the girls come around the corner at 154 and decided to walk past them and wait until they got way out on the bridge to trap them..But it's also possible that Blair was his initial target and he immediately followed her back up the trail with Malicious intent and then 1 minute later he saw the girls come around the corner and decided then that they would be his target after he was assured again that they got way out on the bridge..I think with these crimes one would have to be in a psychotic state of mind in that moment to go through with it..I believe he went there to kill the first person(s) he could isolate, and not necessarily targeting Libby and Abby beforehand or even knowing they were coming.. I think its possible the reason he denied seeing Betsy Blair is because only he knew of his previous malicious intent towards her.. Then when the girls came around the bend he saw them as the more viable option because they were headed for his more desirable trap...The Bridge..But the fact that Blair saw him at 153 and turned around , and we know that Libby took a photo of the the Bridge looking south at 203 and no one was there definitely means Allen passed them somewhere between 153 and 203..What was the motivating factor for his movement North off the Bridge between 153 and 203 ?
Was it Blair, or was it the girls coming around the corner ? Again, his denial in seeing Blair makes me believe he did indeed go after Blair first.. I may be wrong, and we may never know for sure, but I hope we find out.
@@richarddobson3138 I don't
@@richarddobson3138 I already made videos showing that years ago.
I am curious if any of the people who saw RA were able to make a positive ID that he is who they saw? Just for the record, I believe from the information it is him,just never heard if their was an actual ID made or that who they saw just looked like the guy in the video.
thats right
Spaghetti stain Elvis omg 😂
Biological father? My father would NEVER sleep in the same bed if I was 13. If I had a problem and was anxious, he would probably send my mother in or bring an armchair into the room to sit by my bed until I fell asleep, never in my bed. It is my FATHER who would put these boundaries in place by sleeping in the same room, either in another bed but most likely he would pull in an armchair and sleep next to me. And of course we trusted him. When a girl hits puberty there are BOUDARIES and these boundaries exist in every culture. I can see where a family is travelling and two kids and two parents go in one hotel room if on the road. There is no way to whitewash this mother's involvement and I guess you are playing devil's advocate here. She is guilty of a lot of things she could be arrested for already, if not for murder. Covering up after a crime and lying to give him an alibi is against the law. That used to be the law in my state; not sure what the law is in Florida. So far I am not impressed with CPS, teachers, relatives and roommates in this case.
Andrew. Hahahahah