I just appreciate the fact that you tried. You can tell somebody that it won't work, but you usually have to prove that it won't work for people to believe you.
mostlikely will wortk with lots of other gases as argon is used as something for blocking air from innteracting with wel. so vacuum too will work i guess or something that doesnt interact/burn at that degrees with plasma or iron :P
Thank you for that demonstration without the Argon Gas! I now fully understand the oxidation phenomenon and how it destroyed both the Tungsten rod and test specimen without the Argon gas shielding your zoomed in video clearly shows, great video sir!
Looks like what happened to the tungsten in my torch when I was testing to see if the lift start worked on my well used Miller. I don't have any shielding gas yet and it just vaporized the end of the tungsten and burned straight through the 1/8" plate in about a second. I don't think compressed air would have any effect on it, the presence of oxygen just makes the tungsten oxidize and melt very rapidly.
Argon also cools the tungsten down hence why helium was used as it can cool the tungsten because of its high heat conductivity and also it can shield the weld pool. Argon can do that too
My TiG welder also equipped with arc welding capability, so this is not necessarily unless an emergency. One time I tried installing a brand new exhaust down pipe and found a hole in the weld joint area, I am forced to use TIG without an argon. I was able to weld but my tungsten tip burns off a bit and have to re-sharpen again.
The argon does more than shield the base metal and pool... it also prevents the same oxidation of the electrode... and it would likely be possible to TIG in a vacuum without gas but a true vacuum is very hard to achieve and outer space is a little more expensive than a bottle of Argon.
I use rods by Castolin Eutectic with sort of powder flux inside for welding cast iron castings but it neither shields the bead nor leave any slag on top but rather contains powdered metal ingrediends and spices.
Where you messed up was if you would have used compressed air to force your plasma flame to the metal you were welding your mother metal then it would have worked but you had nothing pushing your fire or your plasma flame towards the metal to keep it in a uniform place so as tungsten does when electrified it sparked every direction it could find to the nearest ground
Sir, may I ask a question please: I want to add (weld) small custom connection clips to a bicycle chain - used to turn an observatory dome. If you can imagine turning a bicycle chain with the chain clips horizontally, so I may add a small motor to turn a dome. I am unable to find any commercial clips that attach/connect to a chain, which would allow me to attach the chain to 'something.' Therefore, I need to use some small hardware clips - and weld them to the chain. What TIG welder would you recommend and I do see TIG welders on Amazon, but I don't see canisters of argon. Perhaps, I should not be using TIG for this application, perhaps you would recommend another welder system. My preference is not to use a welding system that requires a gas - rather just a voltage-related (melting) system. Something like a soldering gun, but with much greater welding ability. Your advice/suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
I do think experiments like this are helpful. Please get try things.. you save me time.. I likely would have tried it just to know (already knowing it would likely fail but now I know it 100% failed).
I want to forge weld steel but I want to use my tig to weld the pieces together with no filler just to block the O2 can you do it without gas and you proved it wont work without gas
oh ok but how about using stick electrodes as a filler rods? with argon ofcourse? gonna try it tommorow in shop. I use sometimes nickel elecrodes for tig but with stripped shield. wonder how will it work with flux shield.
was wondering if you could do a review on the Hobart Auto Arc 100. i know its a cheeper welder was just looking for a professional opinion on it I like mine it's better than the Lincoln Weld Pak HD that I had
Should of used 1/16" or .072 wire instead of .035. Flux core is hollow so there's a lot less metal there per inch. Not to mention it would have more flux so it would've shielded better.
Can you tig (braze) with argon on aluminum but use aluminum brazing rods (the ones that are designed to be used by a gas torch) instead of regular tig rods? I like the hardness of the aluminum brazing rods. Do you think the resulting join is better than regular tig rods in terms of durability?
ya- I like to know that too. I have my first tig welder coming in this week. I will try it. I have 4 pounds of AL3 rods (tin, aluminum and likely zinc). they are the Chinese ones from ebay and not as good as the ones I got from lowes. Propane would melt the ones from lowes but these dont really flow. So.. I will try to tig with them.
Great video. I'm cheap and was checking in to see if TIG could be done w/o gas (quite expensive for the cylinder and gas). Seems like no. Guess the flux works on stick because there is not really any space between the work and the electrode.
These rods are made for open crack butt welds you absolutely need argon coming our your rig it just saves money on purging the stainless pipe with argon gas.
The flux works by creating a coating over the molten puddle therefore preventing oxygen from reacting with the metal. It does nothing for your tungsten because it doesn’t cover it.
I would imagine the tungsten would just turn into smoke, the way it does when you try to TIG in a little breeze. If you use the flux core with gas you have dual shield! // Wow, that was pretty wild looking!
I have been watching wall pros welding. They are all good anyd help full. I would like to to see some more interesting welding. For example to buildup a broken motorcycle cylinder find one in cast iron one in aluminum. These fins about 0.1875 inch thick and they are about 0.375 inch spaced apart. I like to see the to build up of an inside fin. Another simpler case are the plug welds especially the smaller ones. I enjoy the show and thanks for the help, I can use all I can get. That Old Bob
Not saying it would work any better but he's dabbing way too slowly with the flux core wire. It's like he isn't adapting his tig style to what is happening with the puddle. It that an Everlast welder he is using?
the key of TIG welding is not not let oxygen that in the air to get between TIG torch tip and the metal or material that you are trying to weld . so you must need that argon gas to create this shield .
Why don't you ever weld a fitment out of position? Everything I see you do is on a bench. Simulate some real life working conditions and teach what a puddle looks like with gravity working against it. I'm sure there is a welding tree/vise company that can send you their product to promote. Weld out of position I want to learn how to do that!!!!!!!
fireflite34 yes I work in a half ass shop with what I have my table is not flat but I get shit done and done right these guys have all the nice shit. I would love to see them weld in a half-ass sharp situation
obviously starting the arc without having shielding gas is going to cause your tungsten to die and your base metal to be contaminated beyond salvation. no chance for the weld after that. also think about the feed rate of the Flux core process. you're attempting to stretch that tiny dabs worth of flux to an extreme limit. it somewhat defeats the purpose of the test, however if you'd like to see if it's possible, start your arc with argon until you have fed your wire. then instead of dabbing the rod, attempt an extremely rapid feed.once you've got the wire melting the argon may not be needed. you may just get enough shielding from the inner flux. DOOOOOOO ITTTTTTTTT!
I think the request was for the opposite reason... they don't have everything for TIG! Like the stinger and not really wanting to invest in the argon bottle, gas lines, regulatir,... a welder with mig/Tig "ARGON" capability.. (all they have is a FluxCore welder.) ... ... i think they wanted to know about using tig-Rod as added filler, using a Flux core welding machine! ... ... But WHY!?!?!? ... Possibly For less slag, pitts, spatter and or porosity!?!?
We hate shielding gas companies and their rental tank policies. Never mind the cost. I've sold everything that needs gas myself. Stick and flux core or nothing.
My former employer had a welder come weld some stainless steel on a commercial dish washer. It was some type of tig. But he didn't use gas. The welder was a tiny Miller it was not flux core or stick. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THIS WAS? He had no gas and no flux. He said it was some new type of welding an the machine was around 3k$
I used to own a tiny Miller tig lift start welder that came with a extremely long power cable and the welder used disposable gas bottles that just fitted onto the strap so I could go anywhere and weld
Compressed air will just feed more oxygen melting the tungsten 100 times faster. argon is used to create an oxygen free bubble at the tip. You blow on a fire to make it burn hotter
You need to be feeding the filler immediately with flux core wire and you need to be feeding it at an even faster rate than the mig welder would, just to keep your tungsten filiment in tact.. It will obviously be a very blobby and ugly weld, I think, but I dont see why the flux core tig technique couldnt be used for tack welds in an emergency, if run this way?
I just appreciate the fact that you tried. You can tell somebody that it won't work, but you usually have to prove that it won't work for people to believe you.
It's a solid rule to show the proof vs just saying so and others just simply believing.
mostlikely will wortk with lots of other gases as argon is used as something for blocking air from innteracting with wel. so vacuum too will work i guess or something that doesnt interact/burn at that degrees with plasma or iron :P
I have never tig welded anything but this test makes the need for argon very easy to understand NOW.
Thank you for that demonstration without the Argon Gas! I now fully understand the oxidation phenomenon and how it destroyed both the Tungsten rod and test specimen without the Argon gas shielding your zoomed in video clearly shows, great video sir!
Whoever requested that just ruined Mr Tig's tungsten.
Too bad you can’t regrind tungsten
"Hi I'm Mr Tig" 🤣😂😭 dad you promised you wouldn't call yourself that anymore.
Thank you for these amazing experiments. This is how true learning and understanding happens. Science is not about why, it's about why not =)
Looks like what happened to the tungsten in my torch when I was testing to see if the lift start worked on my well used Miller. I don't have any shielding gas yet and it just vaporized the end of the tungsten and burned straight through the 1/8" plate in about a second. I don't think compressed air would have any effect on it, the presence of oxygen just makes the tungsten oxidize and melt very rapidly.
Argon also cools the tungsten down hence why helium was used as it can cool the tungsten because of its high heat conductivity and also it can shield the weld pool. Argon can do that too
I just loved this channel more than anything welse.
My TiG welder also equipped with arc welding capability, so this is not necessarily unless an emergency. One time I tried installing a brand new exhaust down pipe and found a hole in the weld joint area, I am forced to use TIG without an argon. I was able to weld but my tungsten tip burns off a bit and have to re-sharpen again.
well, at least I know what happens if I try that now, I'm just starting TIG and was thinking what would happen if I didn't use the gas.
Thanks!
Crazy. I was just wondering that exact thing.
"Mr Tig" looks like Wyatt Swaim, IMO, the best welder in the world! Haven't seen him in years , but will be watching regularly! Charlie Briggs
The argon does more than shield the base metal and pool... it also prevents the same oxidation of the electrode... and it would likely be possible to TIG in a vacuum without gas but a true vacuum is very hard to achieve and outer space is a little more expensive than a bottle of Argon.
Loved this Demo Mr . Tig .thank you
I was searching youtube to see if it was possible to do some kind of tig stuff on a stick welder, and this is the answer. Thanks for the info.
What you are asking is an entirely different question and the answer to that is yes. Search for scratch start TIG.
I use rods by Castolin Eutectic with sort of powder flux inside for welding cast iron castings but it neither shields the bead nor leave any slag on top but rather contains powdered metal ingrediends and spices.
Hi sir from Philippines what is the best to used with gas or gas les what is the direfferent of welding thanks for the answer
Clearly needs a heavy flux stick rod instead. I've seen it work with 4043 alum rod - would like to try on steel.
Without gas you burn up your tungsten so I don’t think you did see it work with 4043.
Where you messed up was if you would have used compressed air to force your plasma flame to the metal you were welding your mother metal then it would have worked but you had nothing pushing your fire or your plasma flame towards the metal to keep it in a uniform place so as tungsten does when electrified it sparked every direction it could find to the nearest ground
That's practical knowledge for you. Need to see it to comprehend it.
Crazy man. You actually tried this!
What an absolutely brilliant video.
@Weld.com What would happen if you did a dual shield setup? Ran Argon and the Flux core wire?
Sir, may I ask a question please: I want to add (weld) small custom connection clips to a bicycle chain - used to turn an observatory dome. If you can imagine turning a bicycle chain with the chain clips horizontally, so I may add a small motor to turn a dome. I am unable to find any commercial clips that attach/connect to a chain, which would allow me to attach the chain to 'something.' Therefore, I need to use some small hardware clips - and weld them to the chain. What TIG welder would you recommend and I do see TIG welders on Amazon, but I don't see canisters of argon. Perhaps, I should not be using TIG for this application, perhaps you would recommend another welder system. My preference is not to use a welding system that requires a gas - rather just a voltage-related (melting) system. Something like a soldering gun, but with much greater welding ability. Your advice/suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
So don't "borrow" the TIG from work, unless i "borrow" the gas bottle with it :)
I do think experiments like this are helpful. Please get try things.. you save me time.. I likely would have tried it just to know (already knowing it would likely fail but now I know it 100% failed).
Would it work if you used less argon with flux cored wire?
Thank you for clearing some points & I want ask if I can use CO2 gas with Tig welding , tank you again
I was imagining what would happen but thanks to this video. Thank you
Can you tig weld with mapp gas instead of the argon 🤔
What is the best brand of tig machine
argon is hard to get here so can I use Co2 instead to weld mild steel
well done for giving it a go
I want to forge weld steel but I want to use my tig to weld the pieces together with no filler just to block the O2 can you do it without gas and you proved it wont work without gas
Could a piece of graphite handle that better?
oh ok but how about using stick electrodes as a filler rods? with argon ofcourse?
gonna try it tommorow in shop.
I use sometimes nickel elecrodes for tig but with stripped shield.
wonder how will it work with flux shield.
Question can you tac weld without argon with tig?
What if you used a 1/16”stick electrode? Use a little gas to get the electrode melted and see what happens
Thank you Mr. Tig you have shows us alot!!
The flux core weld looks the same as when I forget to turn on my gas bottle. I do that every couple of months lol.
We wouldn't have all the different types of welding if no one made any trials failures and eventually multiple ways of welding.
God loves a trier .
thanks good info about tig without gas.
Great demo
Hi sir,can tig machine use stick welding?without gas on tig welding?
That’s two questions. 1. Yes 2. No.
i would expect the duel shield to work out well, mig duel shield does
Wayne Hartneck it does work nice usually its used to not need to purge on stainless pipes
what if... Instead of using argone just use air to cool the tungsten rod.. So compressed air instead of argone and a fluxcore rod. Would that work?
What would be a good cheap take welder for a beginner at tic welding. Keep in mind I do use a wire fed electric welder and I'm pretty good with it
Everlast makes good quality welders that are affordable. I've got a few of their products myself.
There’s also quite a few paid shills for everlast on UA-cam, so I don’t buy their products.
was wondering if you could do a review on the Hobart Auto Arc 100. i know its a cheeper welder was just looking for a professional opinion on it I like mine it's better than the Lincoln Weld Pak HD that I had
Should of used 1/16" or .072 wire instead of .035. Flux core is hollow so there's a lot less metal there per inch. Not to mention it would have more flux so it would've shielded better.
Nope. Without gas you’ve (you have not you of!) got a burned tungsten. No way around it.
Would you recommend tig or mig for a beginner welding aluminum Or steel
Can you tig (braze) with argon on aluminum but use aluminum brazing rods (the ones that are designed to be used by a gas torch) instead of regular tig rods? I like the hardness of the aluminum brazing rods. Do you think the resulting join is better than regular tig rods in terms of durability?
ya- I like to know that too. I have my first tig welder coming in this week. I will try it. I have 4 pounds of AL3 rods (tin, aluminum and likely zinc). they are the Chinese ones from ebay and not as good as the ones I got from lowes. Propane would melt the ones from lowes but these dont really flow. So.. I will try to tig with them.
Can you use CO2 in place of argon?
Mr. TIG, what should be the setting if I TIG weld 3mm aluminum sheets? Thanks. I know it should be A/C but I dont know the other settings. Thanks
Awsome video I can't wait to see the flux cored tig filler rod
Great video. I'm cheap and was checking in to see if TIG could be done w/o gas (quite expensive for the cylinder and gas). Seems like no. Guess the flux works on stick because there is not really any space between the work and the electrode.
These rods are made for open crack butt welds you absolutely need argon coming our your rig it just saves money on purging the stainless pipe with argon gas.
The flux works by creating a coating over the molten puddle therefore preventing oxygen from reacting with the metal. It does nothing for your tungsten because it doesn’t cover it.
I would imagine the tungsten would just turn into smoke, the way it does when you try to TIG in a little breeze. If you use the flux core with gas you have dual shield! // Wow, that was pretty wild looking!
Can yo use carbon dioxide gas for mild steel ??
No. Contains oxygen.
I have been watching wall pros welding. They are all good anyd help full. I would like to to see some more interesting welding. For example to buildup a broken motorcycle cylinder find one in cast iron one in aluminum. These fins about 0.1875 inch thick and they are about 0.375 inch spaced apart. I like to see the to build up of an inside fin. Another simpler case are the plug welds especially the smaller ones. I enjoy the show and thanks for the help, I can use all I can get.
That Old Bob
Can you try the Vulcan tig 200 or 165 from harbor freight.
cool demo . how about using tig with gas and solder as filler. My guess is that it would melt before ever coming near the puddle.
i do believe he already did that on one of the symbol repair videos
if you dont use gas I think you have to connect your torch to the Negative
Can i use a Air compressor for tig instead of the gas?
No. Argon is inert. That’s why it’s used. Compressed air is the same stuff you breathe, ie contains oxygen ie not inert.
3:16 no they are not Mr Tig, no they are not.
Not saying it would work any better but he's dabbing way too slowly with the flux core wire. It's like he isn't adapting his tig style to what is happening with the puddle. It that an Everlast welder he is using?
If you replace argon with air from an air compressor to cool the tungsten?
it's oxidation that kills the tungsten, no so much the cooling
Result: Congratulations, you've just created a crap plasma cutter.
the key of TIG welding is not not let oxygen that in the air to get between TIG torch tip and the metal or material that you are trying to weld . so you must need that argon gas to create this shield .
thank you for this try. very usefull.
How about TIG steel on AC?
Could you try tig welding wihout gas in a vacuum?
If in a vacuum you don’t any gas. The purpose of the gas is to replace the oxygen. In a vacuum there is none.
Thanks for that information
Why don't you ever weld a fitment out of position? Everything I see you do is on a bench. Simulate some real life working conditions and teach what a puddle looks like with gravity working against it. I'm sure there is a welding tree/vise company that can send you their product to promote. Weld out of position I want to learn how to do that!!!!!!!
fireflite34 yes I work in a half ass shop with what I have my table is not flat but I get shit done and done right these guys have all the nice shit. I would love to see them weld in a half-ass sharp situation
I would also like to see some up hill or down hill welding.or even over head
Can you use just normal air from your air compressor instead of using Argon
Just looking for a cheap alternative
No. Air contains oxygen which is what you’re trying to avoid by using the argon...
obviously starting the arc without having shielding gas is going to cause your tungsten to die and your base metal to be contaminated beyond salvation. no chance for the weld after that.
also think about the feed rate of the Flux core process. you're attempting to stretch that tiny dabs worth of flux to an extreme limit.
it somewhat defeats the purpose of the test, however if you'd like to see if it's possible, start your arc with argon until you have fed your wire. then instead of dabbing the rod, attempt an extremely rapid feed.once you've got the wire melting the argon may not be needed. you may just get enough shielding from the inner flux.
DOOOOOOO ITTTTTTTTT!
Larger wire, or try using a welding stick as a filler wire type fashion.
You forgot to switch the polarity, and feed a lot more with a bigger wire
How abour CRC AntiSpatter paste?
What about TIG without gas using a flux coated stick electrode?
Nope.
I think the request was for the opposite reason... they don't have everything for TIG! Like the stinger and not really wanting to invest in the argon bottle, gas lines, regulatir,... a welder with mig/Tig "ARGON" capability.. (all they have is a FluxCore welder.) ... ... i think they wanted to know about using tig-Rod as added filler, using a Flux core welding machine! ... ... But WHY!?!?!? ... Possibly For less slag, pitts, spatter and or porosity!?!?
Can you tig weld by using borax as a flux
We hate shielding gas companies and their rental tank policies. Never mind the cost. I've sold everything that needs gas myself. Stick and flux core or nothing.
Amen to that
Someone should ask what happens when you shower with the welder?
NOTHING! Take my word.😎
With the welding _machine_ or the person doing the welding? :-O
Thank you. You are so good.
Why??
Flux core + gas in an outdoor high wind setting.
thk you soo much, now I know what to do 👍❤️
They call me...MR TIG
My former employer had a welder come weld some stainless steel on a commercial dish washer. It was some type of tig. But he didn't use gas. The welder was a tiny Miller it was not flux core or stick. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THIS WAS? He had no gas and no flux. He said it was some new type of welding an the machine was around 3k$
I used to own a tiny Miller tig lift start welder that came with a extremely long power cable and the welder used disposable gas bottles that just fitted onto the strap so I could go anywhere and weld
Thanks for that, without gas. how about AIR or something extremely cold ---- I'd never used tig before nor much of any other
Apart from it working with argon gas, will it work for a water cooled tig torch?
Pin and weld time with Amazon welder no gas 💪
nice video!
Compressed air will just feed more oxygen melting the tungsten 100 times faster. argon is used to create an oxygen free bubble at the tip. You blow on a fire to make it burn hotter
Thanks Mr Tig; I'll stay clear of this stuff, (unless I got some cymbals to weld), just kidding Mr Tig!
Mark Steven E
Nice try Mr Tig, Thanks for sharing.
remove the tungsten and stick in the flux core wire
Lower the amps
You need to be feeding the filler immediately with flux core wire and you need to be feeding it at an even faster rate than the mig welder would, just to keep your tungsten filiment in tact.. It will obviously be a very blobby and ugly weld, I think, but I dont see why the flux core tig technique couldnt be used for tack welds in an emergency, if run this way?
I thought you said tik tok at first haha
Yeeeeeeeeeek! !!!
I would have never in a million years tried that again
Yeeeeeeeeeek!!!!!
His sad face at the end from losing his tungsten is heartbreaking.
Short answer NO
Sir .. can you pliz do experiment... tig with oxygen .. using oxy acetlne gas rod? If this can be done we"be saving more time n money.
Boom! Facepalm.
@@TheOriginalCoda ,🤣🤣🤣