The Project L Devs Did an Interview at EVO Japan
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 кві 2023
- streamed Apr. 10, 2023
• EVO創始者キャノン兄弟が登壇！「『Proj...
Follow Sajam on Twitter & Twitch:
/ sajam
/ sajam
/ discord
If you're ever confused by some terminology try looking it up in the FG Glossary:
glossary.infil.net/
Clips Channel:
/ sajamclips
Editing/Thumbnail by Magic Moste:
/ magicmoste
#FGC #Sajam #ProjectL #EVOJapan2023 - Ігри
Crazy that Thomas Anthony Cannon mastered the ability to split himself into 2 clones to get more work done. Really admirable.
I love how they have to wear different shirts to be able to tell who is who, theyre not new to this game.
IRL mirror match
He's using dynamic tag irl
It all started when there was a desync in delay based reality. They thought to themselves, "I can fix that"
They taught Chipp the clone move
The only way I can tell the Cannon brothers apart is to wait until one starts talking about rollback
Lmao
I'm really interested in knowing if Riot will implement a Player Beta Environment (PBE) client similar to their other games. I can think of no better way to balance fighting games while avoiding pervasive patch culture than to allow testing for future patches before throwing it out there untested on a wide scale.
Concidering how they treat their current PBE servers I wouldn't hold my breath on that
@@robertharp16 what's the state of it currently? I been outta the game with LoL for a while
@@kreator5916 things very rarely change from pbe to live.
@@kreator5916 tldr if a bug exist on the pbe it's more than likely gonna hit live, if something's blatantly busted our pleas will go un unheard, so y'know another Monday passed and nothing of value was lost
skullgirls style
(paraphrasing) "Fighting game players know what that feeling is like when you make it out of pools"
That tends to only be about 3 players for every 16 in the tournament. It's a cool feeling, but statistically, most players at a major will not know what that feels like.
Skill Issue
A fair point, but I feel like that point encapsulates all the people who don't make it or almost make it as well. Also, taking into considerations how many people play small locals or online tournies, I imagine the average somewhat active player who enter such competitions will at one point make it out of pools.
It doesn’t have to be a major to feel sick making it out of pools, even beginner tourneys
I'm impressed by the questions from the interviewer, and great responses from the devs.
The absolute worst part of cooldowns in Rising Thunder was that some of the moves on CD were a character's best/most reliable anti-air, so it became less "I got punished for a bad jump in" and more "I paid a bit of health to remove your dp for 5 seconds".
Exactly. But then if you try to take the CD out it the scale tips completely to the other side and now you have an instant one button DP and the game becomes SF on easy mode.
Which is probably why they decided to change to a tag game. It's probably a nightmare to try and balance depth + simplicity in a 1v1 grounded footsie game with no motion inputs
@@tingispingis Most characters still have one button anti-airs. Just balance the game properly, make DP an RPS situation like they did in SF or scale the damage back.
One button execution isn't an issue, they're called normals and they've existed forever. Why does a special move HAVE to be differentiated by how it's input, and that input gatekeeping the move?
The closest you can come to "execution balances the game!" as a legitimate argument is charge motions and there are PLENTY of arguments to debunk it. For example, just implement another system to get the same effect. Fantasy Strike handles it well as an example.
@@Lusecose I don't even buy that explanation. I played the FUCK out of RT and actually managed to climb to the top 60ish (i would not have been surprised if there were less than 60 players by that point, but fuck it i took a game off a few big names). I don't think I was actually that good but I at least put up a little resistance against people absolutely were.
EVERY cast member has multiple ways to AA and baiting a DP in an oki situation was super rewarding BECAUSE the next mixup you knew they were without a DP and you could do something that wasn't reliant on a safejump.
And fuck that was in a game that actually had a burst option as well if you wanted it to still get the fuck out of those situations.
@@Eji1700 you're saying the things I agree with, apparently I was unclear.
RT was well balanced with its approach AND was easy from an execution standpoint. Knowledge was the most important commodity in RT.
I'd be curious to hear the Cannon Bros talk about removing cooldowns on specials in Project L, but the point is execution barriers are a bad way to balance fighting games when there are a myriad of approaches to balance that are way healthier for a growing community.
Idk, to me it's the best part.
It forces different strategies, instead of the "best move for a situation every single time". Something like that.
And well, moba is just about the whole genre built upon managing cooldowns. And there are events/gamemodes with reduced cooldowns. Ugh. Mobas don't do That very well.
Hearing them talk so candidly about their approach. Straight up saying that constant balance for a fighting game is wack and they don't plan to sell power and their approach to online makes me so much more excited for this game. I'm still worried about it being tag kusoge though.
atleast its 2 characters not 3, reduces the variables to make it kusoge by alot
This is easily one of my favorite video openings. Sajam just trying to casually bring up the conversation of Project L and someone rolls up with the most legendary TTS donation. Lmfao
i wonder if anyone interviewed the kyanta 2 developer at evo japan
that man need more spotlight
This game is probably gonna take over my entire life
Amen brudda
I hope they bring Fiddlesticks its gonna be sick playing with him...
Same
Just hearing them talk about stuff is really nice
Can't wait to see how the netcode is like in project L
Man, I know it's been discussed to death, but I just like the motions. They feel good doing, they send the good chemicals to my brain.
dude same. fun execution is one of the main factors for picking my characters
I think it also depends a lot on what type of game it is. Like a tag game inspired by things like MvC where they want to focus on having expressive movement I can kinda get not having motions because they just aren't really needed for the kind of game it's going to be. There's going to be a lot of things that's going to be execution intensive if you want to, but it's going to be expressed in movement options. When it comes down to it, motions are a way to have strong moves in a game while keeping them balanced, and if your game don't need those motions to balance out those moves it is silly to keep them in when they no longer serve a gameplay or balancing purpose.
Where I'm getting at is, I think the people who're critical of the decision who're entirely focusing on the game being "dumbed down for accessibility" are missing the part where it can be an interesting game design decision that can open up avenues for skill expression elsewhere trading having a binary execution floor for a more fluid skill expression ceiling. It's like how League originally decided to part with turn speed from the original DotA which has now become a defining trait of the game's expressive movement.
@@gwen9939 Oh I totally agree with your points there. It's just, as someone that likes motion inputs, but isn't part of the people that get weirdly mad about it, I feel like none of the fighting games developpers agree that motions can be fun anymore.
And it makes me a bit sad and feeling left behind.
@@Nooctae it's not that they don't think motion inputs can be fun. they have been playing fgs for as long as the genre has existed, I'm sure they love motion inputs. but you can't imagine how many people will start up a free to play game and the instant they are asked to do a quarter circle they will get frustrated, leave, and never touch the game again. they don't really set your execution ceiling, it seems like this game is going to have crazy movement and some hard combos, but they absolutely set a hard execution floor
Then play any of the hundreds of games that exist with motions lmfao.
I really like the humility the devs show. They own up to bad moves they've made, and I honestly believe them when they say they'll listen to the fans, based on Riot's history
Project L is looking even more exciting!
I wonder if we'll see more F2P fighting games in the future if Project L ends up being successful.
Oh shit it’s confirmed f2p?
I think project L its a guarantee succesfull.... We are talking about the biggest fighting game ever here...The amount of streamers whos gonna play this...
@@mauvevisive7250 Pretty sure it was confirmed when they announced it, yeah.
at there core fighting games are focused on a single multiplayer mode, only nrs has had success with pulling in people that mainly play single player. with that structure, f2p really makes way more sense, but the genre has a small and very dedicated fan base so getting them to pay for almost no content has worked, more or less
I'm hoping Project L is successful because it's a good fighting game, rather than because it's a game by Riot.
Project L is probably gonna be the first fighting game that "just works" when it comes to online, and it's likely that's going to be a huge contributor for its player retention compared to other fighting games. Combined with the F2P model I think the game is going to blow up. Not as much as Valorant or Runeterra, but for a fighting game I think it's going to be huge.
I think we're looking at the first fighting game since smash with broad mainstream appeal.
Is runeterra even that big? mtg and hearthstone and marvel snap are all much bigger no?
@@snowys4168 Legends of Runeterra certainly isn't big, but it's been more of a way for them to worldbuild and mess around with ideas than anything else. League's universe is pretty big and LoR has been their way of fleshing it out.
Its surreal that we still don't have a fighting game with a functional online. Every game has a problem, no rollback/crossplay, broken matchmaking, shitty lobbies.
SF6
I’m glad they value having fighting game balance be very “Raw”, I dont think its the worst thing ever to be super well balanced but alot of fighting games of the last generation felt very very sanitized.
The thing I want the most at this point is for them to just give me a freaking name. I am so sick of saying "project L" give us a real name alredyy
based clip thanks say jam
jam
Jam
jam
jam
I'm just hoping that they allow you to still do motion inputs even if they have no advantage over the simple inputs. I have a lot of muscle memory and I enjoy the feeling of doing the motions. Please allow us to still do them if we want 🙏🙏
In a game without motions, nothing stops you from executing a 6C as 236C or 41236C or whatever directions/motions you want that ends in you pressing 6C lol.
you can write macros on PC to use your less efficient inputs :p
Wow great video by the tony brothers
A little late to this video but one thing I’m interested in how they will handle is with complete design and gameplay reworks in league of legends for existing characters in project L. As a reformed former league player I’ve seen some champions get huge overhauls in how they look and play, and wonder if changes like that in a different game within the same IP will be mirrored in project L which is a uniquely awkward situation for them
hello bossman
I need Orianna as a pure zoner keep away. Something like Nu-13 mixed with Menat. Then I need Zyra as a set play trap character. Get a knockdown drop a plant that can hit low or overhead then Zyra can do jump in or low and have insane 50-50. Even if she can't do 50-50 have the plants trap them into block on wake up for free pressure. I want those 2 characters nothing else matters.
think this game is gonna be a banger. gonna be sad when we don't call it project L anymore though.
LEAGUE OF LEGENDS SUPER ALTIMSTE SMASH BRAWL DOWN. I hope riot does something smart with the title
@@lancerhades971 I hope they get a goofy single word like VALORANT and not just Fighters of Runeterra or some such
It’s going to be a free to play bbtag 3.0
I'm not familiar with riot's development process, is there a reason why they have announced this game so early?
Iirc, they revealed it along with two other games, Valorant and an ARPG (Riot forge games and the mmo were announced later I think). I believe it was a big 10 year anniversary stream or something, and it was pretty big at the time because all they were doing before was league. Pretty much announced all their things at once to show how they are expanding and how they don’t only have one product to their name.
We're just being edged really slowly
I feel like having people involved in the early development that don't play fighting games is exactly what you need to be able to capture those players when the game releases. FG veterans trying to make a game for a new wave of players is hard, since they aren't new anymore, they don't think like a new player. I wonder if that feedback so early on is what a F2P title was missing? That and propper monetization.
ive been a valorant player since beta, and it was my first game ive played by riot, and man i LOVE how they do things, ofc its probably going to be a little different, but if its anyway how they manage valorant, for casual and esports side, this is really going to open up a lot of ppl into these types of games.
valorant was a great lesson in how good they are at bringing in people new to the genre. a lot of people thought val would have to 'kill cs' to be successful but it turns out a huge part of there player base weren't even fps players, let alone hardcore tac fps players
@@QGfk1 yeah but that's any game cs has a HUGE casual base
Feeling under the weather? *pokes logs* Here, have a seat next to the fire, and get comfy. We'll get you back in the game in no time (i.e. a protracted, seemingly endless development cycle) with a spoonful of Papa's Old Tyme Rollback. Mmmmm, now that's what anodyne feelin' fine is all about!
so glad daffy duck brought light to the thrive therverths at the beginning
100% agree ez inputs make it easier for better players to win. Youre not gonna drop your high damage combos because you missed an input.
Will the game be 4 players? Or do we not know that yet
Hey card games need skill and good strategy! Is like when casual in fighting games says " You just pick the best characters and you win. " Nope ^^ I see many things in commom with fighting games and card games.
Sorry that lines trigger me, but great video as always ^^
Well problem with Comestic come with Leesin, he have 2 akin that change the animation is Muay Thai and Boxing.
IM so confused why is there two of the same guy
am i going insane
In regards to new models people still asking for a huge visual update because wild rift visuals are so nice compared to the base game
I feel like the 'no motion inputs' part of the game is just for marketing and so that people will try it. Motion inputs aren't harder than learning to aim in an fps or last hitting in league but so many people just straight up won't play a game that has motion inputs for some reason.
No motion inputs? Good luck.
hmmm
Season patches are best. Big changes done once a year
i feel like every 3 months is better
Your main being dead for a year would not feel good dude
@@viniciuspedrosa2405 play someone else.
Let James Chen tell it .....Tom & Tony Cannon are responsible for alot of things FGC. They need a Doc.
Skins do have power over some players. Put bikini and let the coomers get distracted all the way to that L.
fun fact: the guy who made the iconic cowboy hatdesigned a better one because he thought old texan hats sucks
Brawlhalla is an extremely successful free to play fighting game!
What if they cross gamed this? Like imagine akali vs jet
i just know this game is gonna be famous for a few months then either die or become a discord fg, like multiversus, nick all-stars brawl and dnf duel
Starting to warm up towards the idea of having simple inputs even though I mainly play Tekken 7 (and T8 when it comes out) because how they talk about the game and what their goal is, just makes it sound like the game will be good because they understand what players want, at least that is how they are expressing it.
I like motions because I think having bigger/exanded movelists is good and it's hard to have as many moves if you do not have motions due to limited buttons on console. I don't care about the "difficulty" argument people throw around since you can get past that easily, no pros lose because they misinput. It's because they made the wrong call, whether that is the wrong move at the wrong time (not misinput) or being out of place.
More moves = more options and answers.
But if they manage to make movement execution heavy instead of the actual attacks that might make up for it.
Pros lose cuz of misinputs quite often
Misinputs happen at even the highest level of pretty much any fighting game
I don't think motion inputs have to be universal to all games.But it bugs me since I think the idea of taking them out because they're too hard to do is not in touch with reality. I remember just messing around with Zangief in SF4 arcade mode and finally figuring out how to do a 360 motion, and it wasn't that hard ever again after it clicked. Plus MK and Dragonball Fighterz don't even have ones as tricky as that (or DP), but they still have them and they still made money.
that's true for you, but there are lots of others who will just get frustrated by that and give up. those games are successful within the context of a small community, with a thousand or 2 daily active players. youre looking to have a player base 50 times larger than that for a f2p game, to be successful they will want an overwhelming majority of their players to be people who have never played a fighting game before
@@QGfk1 Anybody getting frustrated with a back to forward or a quarter circle is going to find another reason to quit anyway.
@@cylondorado4582
Agreed. Anybody who knows how tilting the experience of playing games really is won’t seriously quote motion inputs as a relevant barrier to entry, especially in the context of this interview about a *tag fighter* and the absolutely cursed shit that we’ve seen from that genre.
Biggest lie in this video was saying unlocking champions in league is very fast 😂😂
4:40 is insanely cap (Unless you think 14+ hours to unlock ONE character is a "pretty fast" process.)
Did you last play 6 years ago? Unlocking champs is really fast.
in valorant playing enough to get your weeklies for one week done will unlock the character. I can't imagine how that is worse than paying 9 bucks for a character (even if you don't want to play them, so you can lab against them) in a game you already payed 60 bucks for
@@QGfk1 exactly people pay 60 bucks in a game and still have to buy 10 dlcs a year after release but grinding for a few days in a game you got for free is a problem. Makes no sense
What about items? That's a pretty big part of league no? I don't think anybody wants a gem system.
The only thing they've mentioned about monetization is cosmetics. I'm having a very hard time believing they're going to keep a free to play fighting game alive with just cosmetics, even if it is based on a known successful IP. They must have more ideas for monetization. Possibly things we've not seen before.
I've recently come across a company that makes mobile games where players would get the same challenge and would compete for score. Their monetization is based on player competition - the players can put real money into an account held by the company and compete over that money. Now, instead of charging a fee upon investing money into the game, the company would charge a fee from the pot of each player group's competition.
I'd like to imagine this type of competition in an online fighting game. You'd basically be able to have money matches and the company would just take a small part of the pot for each money match. This also opens up the ability to have small independent tournaments and also a venue for earning for skilled competitive players.
Of course, the risk here is of creating a very toxic community. People may get a lot more salty when they lose money in competitive play.
All riot games only have cosmetic stuff for sale. And i don't even know how to make a pay to win system in a fighting game
@@viniciuspedrosa2405 How to make pay to win is easy. Just look at Injustice 2's equipment system or Mortal Kombat 11's custom variation system. Now imagine you'd pay money to get those unlocked in competitive play.
I spend in valorant, lor and lol in a span over 10 years 1050 euro. Trust me, f2p done right brings a ton of money. I did not even spent more then some of my other friends. Its possiple with skins and battlepasses. 10euro zoe skin bougth. 15 for that lulu legendary? Done. Sett king skin vor my brother? Easy. I really mean it, its possible.
I really don't love the way everyone seems to think league doesn't sell power, because yeah it does. Ignoring their not stellar balancing, because shit's hard anyways and i don't want to go into the weeds of it, in a game with picks, counterpicks, laning matchups, and bans...yes having a larger hero pool is ABSOLUTELY a power thing.
I'm glad to hear people going on record saying they're not going to sell power, because it makes me more confident they aren't going to do what league does, but yeah I really don't want to be stuck in a game where it's like playing MvC2 and your opponent is playing MSS and you've got fucking amingo, anakris, and bison because the first two are on the free roster this week and you always like bison and it's only 800 more hours of getting fucking annihilated before you can afford (or god forbid if they do it, loot box) a sentinel.
I know the FGC wants to have a good F2P option, and it's going to happen, but people are waaaay to excited for a business model that has been absolutely rancid in the majority of cases, and tolerable in a few. And that's as a major fan of Dota, and someone who will begrudgingly give league credit where it's due.
Finally TOTALLY UNRELATED, but I liked the cd from RT and i'm tired of talented cranky old FGC people saying "but i can't do my move". As a terrible cranky old FG player we need to let devs innovate and see how non FGC people take to this stuff. "oh no i can't do my moves" is not something anyone coming from almost any other genre is thinking of, because it's such a common mechanic. It also led to some really interesting oki risk reward because yeah you can DP out, but that next mixup if they call you out on it is going to be fucking brutal because you're going to have to hold it.
Seeing the mechanic ignored because a few people tried it once and didn't like it after 20 years of doing it another way just reminds me of all the people who continue to swear that each new game is just dumbing down the genre and ruining everything, and it just feels like a "this is why we can't have nice things" scenario, when stuff like KI comes out and knocks shit out of the park, but then gets left in the dust because "how dare my opponent get to break combos" (and they also had a pretty good business model but with some of the WORST marketing/explanations i've ever seen).
Sajam... we now live in a world where Developers are being persecuted for NOT having "perfect" functional rollback... and people are resorting to game piracy in retaliation...
It's a sad state of affairs.
People need to be mature adults about this stuff. It's give and take, you know?
aight we did it, we found the worst take, internet's over
there is nothing more "fighting game" than the drive to become better and better. if we just settled for what we had we wouldn't have online at all
@@life-destiny1196 It's not a "take" it's a FACT. Also the fact we even GOT rollback is something we don't even DESERVE, given how toxic the FGC can get.
bro they literaly made NO REAL QUESTIONS, how many characters will have on launch? how much time do they take making 1 character? when will they have an actuall trailer, are they working on a trailer? how big is the team working in this game? any question that gives us a hint on the game, but no, pure shit we already know and questions about the gameplay they didnt even answerd
Do you really think they would answer any of those questions?
@@viniciuspedrosa2405 the least you can do is ask
There is little point in asking questions you know they won't answer. This isn't a journalistic interrogation into wrong doing or otherwise public benefit.
@@joeyrhubarb2558 i see less poin in asking useless question or things we already know. i dont see the benefit well, they benefit for the views of stupid people like me that thought something interesting will come out of this
They said its far from beta and actual game itself. 30% is their latest progress on the game. They are not your journalist to ask that question on what to expect. At least for some clearly detail on what will riot do to a fighting game and what to expect. The characters are not to worry since it's based on Runeterra Lore or league.
creepy clone guys
Chatter discovers twins
you're watching a video of a streamer that has a semi-prolific running joke based entirely around how he looks like other people...?
@@cameronb8940 don’t trust them
@@Michael-qp7gq how do we know you're a real person, "Michael"?
The game is trash to ME right from the jump when I learned that there was no Motion Inputs. Half of the enjoyment of Fighting Games to me are executing the Motion Inputs at the right space and time. You can show me all the coolest S on screen to me, but if it's too easy to do, I get no enjoyment from it. So definitely not a game for me.