Fitting an 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Hub (Shimano Hack Tip)
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- Опубліковано 1 бер 2017
- Solving a problem with math, a lathe, and an expert at all things engineering. Raoul helps me convert a LeMond Revolution indoor trainer from 10 speed into a fully 11 speed compatible setup. Remember to hit SUBSCRIBE to support this UA-cam channel: bit.ly/3aUph9W
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Hey Shane, this spring I had warranty my bike frame due to a cracked front derail-er hanger on my carbon tri bike. Apparently it was not repairable. So the updated frame/ bike ended up being an 11 speed. My old one was 10 speed. I had just bought zipp race wheels used the year before and was bummed that the new bike was a 11 speed. Looking for solutions, I ran into your video. Being in a tri club in the Motor City, I had friends that were machinist who willingly turned my big cogs on a lathe to the 1.8 mm specs in your video. I just tried my race wheels out yesterday on a ride. I didn't have any shifting issues at all when i swapped wheels. Thank you so much Shane, you saved me a bundle.
Found this video after I did my conversion, although I don’t think I would have been able to do the machining. I needed an emergency wheel for a century ride; I found cracks in my wheel and could not get/rent a wheel from any LBS due to COVID and my new set of wheels was 2 weeks away. A friend gave me an old bike that had a 9 speed cassette. I was able to put 10 of my 11 cogs on it, and had to file down one of the standard Shimano spacers and add it to the stack to have the proper stack height. Worked very well.
Brilliant! I took my carbon wheels with a 10 speed cassette to two bike shops and both said they could not change it to 11 speed. Took the cassette to an engineering shop in Sydney - worked perfectly. Thanks
How's it work 2 years later? Any issues?
Can you tell me where did you go in Sydney? I'm about to do same thing
Thanks for the video, saved me a ton of money. Just fitted a 11 speed 105 casette to a 8/9 speed hub (Joystar, very cheap, very clean). I now have a spare trainer wheel for about 65 EUR. I used the lathe technique and skimmed 1.8 mm off the cassette.
Becoming the best Cycling UA-cam channel around, well done Shane.
Cheers Ben. I'm not in it to be the best... Just here to help out and have a positive impact, maybe. :)
have you come across theDarkinstall channel yet? best underground channel on the tube right now i reckon
yep, nice channel. Allot of kwnoladge pouring out from Shane. Tx for that Shane. Love your tech vids !
Ben Patterson j
Shane Miller - GPLama can it work for actual wheelset with 10sp hub? i mean will the chain rubbing against the tyre?
Video archives are the best thing ever. Great video & solution.
Hi shane
just fitted my cassette to hub after this hack, it works superb!! simple to do and only a 10min job, would recommend this option to anyone!!
Thanks again
Mental! My favourite. A clever hack which helps prolong the life of all my 10s wheels,groupsets etc etc.
Thanks for the vid Shane, this was very helpful!
Great upload. Interesting to watch, and learn. I have the same issue with some of my jerseys!
Appreciated your input on the VCyclist live feed last night.
+John Bailey Thanks mate. VC is a great guy. Genuine too. I hope to link up with him about those tech issues he was discussing on the live feed.
Nice work around, cheers Shane!
Great vid as always Shane! I would buy one of these cassettes off you in a heartbeat. Just what iv been looking for.
Don't give me a reason to get a lathe...... because I've been looking at them! :)
Oh wow, it doesn't get any better than this! You managed to combine my 3 favourite pastimes of running a lathe, cycling, and general hacks and bodging things up!
Raoul's quite the man with a little Myford tucked away there. Nice!
PS Yes buy a lathe, every man needs at least one lathe ;) ... and a hammer.
But not a Chinese lathe
@shanemiller thanks for the ride on tonight mate 👍👍👍
Great solution, I did the same thing to my old Zipp 900 disc 2 years ago.
Shane you mad genius. Good on you for figuring out the missing link like a boss!
+TheGreen Cyborg I won't take the credit, it's a solution a lot of others have come up with a few years back when 11spd hit the ground. Like most things I put up, it's a problem I was solving so I switched the camera on and shared the process.
11-speed Shimano MTB cassettes already have the 1.8mm cutout so you can just use that if you prefer. So an 11T 11-34 will fit directly to a 10-speed hub. They come with a removable 1.8mm spacer to fit on 11-speed hubs.
I think the cassette you are talking about (CS-HG800-11) came out after this video was made. And only the long cage derailleurs work with the 34T
Hey guys, I have Deore XT RD-M8000 rear derailleur 11 speed long cage
Deore XT CS-M8000 cassette 11-42 T
And DT Swiss M 1900 SP wheels with shimano hubs.
Do I have to get it machined?
Thank you
great vid Shane, about to do this with a set of tune wheels for the road
I wish I had a bike shop guy like that in my area ! Kudos
I did this on my power tap free hub. Last year. It's a simple quick fix well worth doing.
Very helpful content. Thank you!
Mate, your videos are the best!! All I can say is, it's a good job I'm not wearing Lycra whilst watching this 🙈😂👍
I was running 10 speed Campy (LeMond Campy freehub) and later converted my bike to Shimano 11 speed. I simply bought a campy 11 speed cassette for the Lemond which worked perfectly with the 11 speed Shimano bike. No adjustments to derailleurs were needed. I haven’t seen this option discussed anywhere.
Interesting. I'm preparing to convert a Trek 5900 with 9 speed Dura Ace to ideally an 11 speed Ultegra 8000. Thoughts?
how did this work? it fits shimano 11s chain/rd without adjustments/issues?
Great vid! Thanks as always.
Very informative video, glad I found this so I can keep using my Dura Ace C50's! There is just one thing that I'm not sure of, what is the diameter or the width that needs to be shaved off of the back of the cassette? Thanks in advance!
Wow Nice one Shane!
Shane you are a legend! cheers mate🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻
Great video thank you
Keep em coming
Two of my favourite youtubers talking about two of my favourite interests (bikes & machining)....This is fucking amazing!!!!!
Raoul is that a Myford ML7?
Eli Douek yes it is, I bought it back in 1990
that is some top class geeking out!! nice
I also LOVE both cycling AND machining! You watch Tubalcain and Keith Fenner and all those guys?
Btw, Thanks Raoul for showing the lathe finally!
Yep! Have you had a look at Clickspring? He's an Aussie clockmaker and does phenomenal work
I did that for a set of race wheels. Careful if you do put that on a set of 10spd wheels though. You'll need to adjust your upper limit screw significantly as the derailer will set much much closer to your spokes with in your big cog.
Not sure how long you used this set up. Six years later, any issues?
Here's where I have a problem with this, and it's not to do with the technical aspect, but practicality. The correct answer to my mind, is to not convert to 11s on the trainer at all. When you first met with Raul you guys came to the same conclusion at 3:23 in the video. Seems like the easiest way to tackle this would be to use a 10s cassette with the ratios optimized in the gear range it will be used in. Still, if you must have it in 11 it's a job well done.
Absolutely - replacement cassettes will also be cheaper too...
Gotta love a little bit of engineering! Imagine all the freehub body's and new wheels not being sold if anyone ever found out ;-) Bike industry won't stand for that!!! Hahaha
I've done the 11-to-10 conversion by dropping a cog and a custom spacer, and it works fairly well except for changing gear where the dropped cog was, due to how hyperglide shifts. Am thinking of going this way, I think there's enough clearance.
I dig. As a new Aircraft Structures Tech, and avid cycliste- ive got some ideas now
Works a treat Thanks - went to Leucher ! Regards
where do you get those tripod tv stands from Shane? Been looking everywhere
This is a great tip. I did the same last season to a DuraAce 11s cassette to fit on the 10s Zipp freehub body of my 900 disc. Works perfectly, but as you said clearance between the wheel and the rear derailleur is critical.
What kind of bike do you have and what brand Derailleur? Thank you
I'm prepping to convert a Trek 5900 with 9 speed Dura Ace to an 11 speed Ultregra 8000 or Dura Ace r9100 (if I can locate good pricing). Was thinking if I replace the spline with 11 speed it will work. Concerned though hub may not fit as I only have 130 mill to work with. Thoughts?
@@erdalunal632 sorry I missed this reply. The bike this is running on is a Felt DA TT bike with a Dura-Ace 9070 rear mech.
@@davidparker8475 I don't think the spacing will be an issue. 130mm was pretty standard for a long time. For me, the disc wheel was only getting irregular use so I wasn't concerned with wear. There was no 11s freehub body for the wheel so the only option I had at the time was mill out the back of the cassette to allow it to fit on the 10s body. This was simple enough with a lathe and helped that the disc is flat sided so plenty of clearance.
I have a 9 speed free hub, and I want to put an 11 speed cassette on that free hub, is the width difference 1.8mm as well? What is the machine called? And where do you think I can get this type of service from? Thank you!
I don't notice any hacks here just a 200iq level thought process
Thanks! Excellent !
Shane,....."its was cheap and very very cost effective...."...........
Very good tip by the way. I've suggested this to quite a few pals in the past but they get bike shop fear mongering thrown into their path.
I'm jealous you picked up a Lemond for $175 :( Those are really good trainers
Nice info, where can I find that lathe machine for grinding my Cassette?
Raoul finally shows the lathe! (he's now the myfordboy of cycling!)
Shane! I have been looking for a straightforward video on this ever since i was gifted a nice set of 10spd carbon wheels. Only problem is I have 11spd ultegra! Now the hunt for a machinist who cycles! Cheers!
It's a pretty basic task with a lathe. Any school with a metal shop might be able to help out. It'd be a good first project for any students. (Including me, I need to get a lathe!) :)
only question remains: if i want to use an 11 spd hub, do i need a spacer?
Not enough info.... an 11 speed hub with a ? cassette? 10. Yes. 11. No. *See the manual to be 100% sure.
funny. this is exactly how campagnolo did their 11s system.
Shimano also does this with their 11 speed mtb hubs, I don't know why they just dont do so with their road stuff.
@@malicalik if I buy an 11 speed mtb cassette will it fit on a 10s road hub? Is that what you mean
@@Megadeth6633 the Shimano 11 speed road 11-34 does the same thing , you can put it in a 10 speed hub
i want to fit a 11 speed freehub Shimano HG11 to a 10 speed cassette (tiagra) can i just do that with a spacer anyne
nice! thanks!
Thanks for this Shane. I have the same Lemond as you with the same problem. Now I just need to find a guy with a lathe.
Did you have to change out the rear derailleur, shifter, and chain too?
+MenInStone The bike going on this trainer was already 11spd.
what would happen if my bike is an 11 sp however i have a 10 speed cassette mounted on my lemond would it work for just those gears???
It'll grind away and not work in a few gears. Not ideal, but it'll kind of work.
U are brilliant did u now? Thanks so muchh thank u ❤️
now if only I have access to an old guy with a lathe...
Same. Unfortunately this solution won’t work for me, but it was fun to watch
@@mariamueller1946 Max McBride just posted an alternative to be able to do this without having to shave anything down ua-cam.com/video/VqS4uPhV3mw/v-deo.html
Saludos desde Ipiales Colombia
Sabes cómo cambiar a eje pasante 12x142 ?
Brilliant way to solve a very simple problem. How often do you change a cassette on a trainer and also when do you ever use the 28 (or 25) cog on a trainer?
Just found your channel couple of weeks ago and I'm really liking the quality of your content, Shane!
+Luciano Narno 1. Not very often. 2. Sometimes. Recovery spins, high cadence work.
hello I want to replace a campagnolo 10sp eurus 2009 hub with a shimano 11 sp hub is possible I hope your help thanks
That's one for a good mechanic. Maybe your local bike store can help. I'm not familiar with Campy gear.
Will this approach work on a mountain bike? If so, can anyone provide me the length of a shimano 11 speed free hub body? Also does this jeopardize the strength of the cassette?
Song at the beginning of the video?
MIA Paper Planes.
Good job
Hi Shane! I'm thinking of purchasing my first wheelset for my bike. I'm currently looking at a set of Yoeleo wheels that come with a 10/11 speed freehub.
My drivetrain is currently shimano sora 2x9
Am I able to use a 9 speed cassette on these wheels? Is there an additional spacer id need?
Also kind of unrelated to this video topic but would a 88mm rear 60mm front look silly on a specialized allez going around local roads? The set is still lighter than my current wheels but not as light as the 38mm of course but if I want to save weight It wouldn't hurt me to lose a few pounds myself
Thank you for any input
Should be no issued with the 9spd on those wheels. Re: 88mm.. yes. Those are racing wheels. 60mm..... still racing style wheels. Your call though.
Shane Miller I thought they might but my deep section envy was getting the better of me haha. thanks for the help!
Does the rear derailleur need to be re-indexed ?
Nope.
excelente!
Cool solution! Do you think there would be spoke clearance issues if this was on a real rear wheel?
It depends on the wheel. Worth a shot for sure.
Amazing
did the same thing, had it machined but after installation and tightening cassette it's still loose
Can I run 9 speed cassette on my bike shimano 105 -10 speed system?
Yes, but it’s not advised and will crunch in a few gears. Best stick to the same speed cassette.
Hello, how deeper did he entered?How many mm, please?Thank you.
1.8mm.
I've seen your friend with the workshop pop up in a couple of your videos Shane. I'm also in Melbourne, and I've got a carbon wheel rim that got buckled on a Donna descent, after I lost a spoke on the other wheel and had to disconnect the brakes. Are these the kinds of jobs he can do / are worth sending his way?
Is is warped or buckled? One is fsked, one can be fixed by any good wheel builder.
There's a 70mm long section of the rim that has gotten wider, by at most 2mm.
I'd consider that shagged. Might be worth pinging Raoul about it @ Luescher Teknik
If you are a masher as opposed to a spinner (modern rider) or just climb (torque) a lot, does this compromise your cassette?
No. The cassette is (should be) able to cope with a LOT more stress than any human can dish out.
I want to do the same thing but I have a 9 speed and want to go to a 11 speed. But it looks like mij freehub is also 34.95mm.
I did it took my cassette to the machine shop , perfect it fitted just perfect
Hey what type of bike? How far your spokes from the large gear? Did you do exactly the same thing? Thank you
$ ?
@@erdalunal632 sorry I didn't see your message I have no idea but there was exactly the space for the chain to spin, no problem at all
@@erdalunal632 yes i did exactly the same
@@whazzat8015 he charged me 5 bucks I gave him 20 dollars
Hey Shane, will 10 speed Derailleur and Brake Lever Set work with Cassette 11 speed??
Poorly. Best get a cassette that matches your levers/derailleur.
@@gplama Thank you 🙏
Could it also be a possibility to take out one cog and then setting the limits on the rear derailleur according to this?
+Thomas El Capitan This is a perfect conversion. That may work for a few gears.
I've just tried this with a set of Bontragers. I took out the 14t cog and adjusted the high and low limits. Seemed to work fine on the stand but very clunky and jumping lower down the block.
Thx for the reply Shane. I have tried taking out a cog on my 11 speed works quite OK 😃 But I'll be doing your solution soon!
Good stuff, you should send it to GCN as a hack :D
haha did exactly the same thing with my 11s cassette.
Now i know what the lathe at work is good for.
And I thought I was clever using an Ambrosio cassette (Shimano spline/Campagnolo pitch) on the Elite freehub!
Love this little "hack" although it's more a piece of great engineering. Out of interest, did you measure the freehub dimensions or are they online somewhere? That would be useful download and keep for future reference. Cheers!
They're online everywhere. Lots of forum posts on this topic around 2012 when 11 speed first started hitting the shelves.
Ah great. I'll do some Googling. Loving your content, right up my street. Keep up the good work!
Hi shane. Cool video, but it's left me a little lost. I recently picked up a set of fulcrum racing 1 wheels with a 10spd 105 cassette on. I wanted to use them with my ultegra 6700 11spd, so simply swapped the cassette over. it went on no problem at all, as did the 10spd onto my ultegra rims with 11spd hub.
BikeDeal.ca
Oh OK, that's cool. Cheers.
isn't 9-10-11's are compatible? on the same freehub?
On an 11 speed freehub yes. On a 10 speed freehub, no.
I really didn't _need_ another excuse to buy myself a lathe, but I'm happy to have additional justification ;-)
how many trainer you have?
Too many.
Shane, could you please let me know the diameter of the cut on the cassette? I know it's 1.8mm deep, but how large of a diameter is required? Thanks!
Not sure to be honest. It'd have been 2-3mm... the Ultegra had a fair amount to work with off the back. I'm not anywhere near it to measure sorry.
Shane Miller thanks for the reply
Depends alot on the hub you are using. You need to clear the hub shell without binding so measure accordingly. I find 40 odd mm is reasonably safe
Just curious how Raoul knew how far to go to take off exactly 1.8mm? Did he have some sort of measuring device on his lathe or take a little bit off, measure, repeat till 1.8?
Nailed it. Measure, repeat till 1.8.
is possibile to modify the freehub instead of the cassette?I think is better this solution,becouse for any cassette you have to machine , if is the freehub modified you can use any 11sp and any 10sp with spacer added , and no other modifications
Not on the LeMond as there isn't enough lip. Taking 1.8mm off it will likely break what's left when installing the cassette. It may work for other freehubs.
I did just pick up an extra cast-off 10s freehub for my Lemond. I have a friend w/ a lathe. We're going to try to machine the freehub down to see if it'll work. I'll report back!
Awesome hack! If you used a Dura Ace cassette, since the last three cogs are mounted on some sort of plastic, could you do the same with a Dremel?
That's aluminium flying off the lathe, not plastic. If you had the right jig or template a Dremel will do it. It won't be as neat or as quick as a lathe.
I agree not as neat or easy, and only doeable on plastic, or whatever the spider holding together a Dura Ace cassette is made from. I don't believe it's metal
I believe the original 9000 cassettes used a carbon carrier, but this was prone to failures, so the current ones are aluminium.
Pretty sure on Dura Ace it is a composite housing on the cassette. I wouldnt mess with it as the complex structure within the housing will be damaged, stress fracture and then fail (they are designed very specifically such that they can be made as light and as strong as possible, so tampering wouldnt be a good idea). which would suck. The difference between a Dura Ace and a Ultegra cassette is minimal, so it is safer ans cheaper to invest in ultegra, especially if it is only for a trainer.
DeStraatz the uppermost Dura-Ace 9000 carrier is now aluminium after the failures in early models.
Is this a service anyone can use?
Any machinist can do this, it's a simple task.
My problem was that I use 10spd Campy and I needed campy body which costs the same buying 11spd shimano body. So I bought 10spd shimano chain and 10spd shimano cassette to solve the problem(they work on campy10spd groupset). Still cheaper than Lemond's campy body or shimano 11spd body. Cheers
I guess this hack can work for fitting 11 spd road cassettes on MTB hubs? As the MTB hubs are 1.2mm shorter than 11 spd road hubs. Tried to find a way to achieve this but your video is the only thing I've found so far.
No idea. Not something I've looked into or had to solve.
What kind business would have a lathe machine?
Machine shops, fabricators or engineering firms.
I was thinking that an easy solution would have been to fit an 11speed 11-32 mountain bike cassette as they still use the same 10speed freehub width. But a quick look on wiggle seems to show that the only ones available have huge sprockets that wouldn't work with a road derailleur.
11 speed road requires a wider hub body.. so while the 11 gears from an MTB cassette might be crammed into the 10spd hub space, the indexing is all out.
I think the MTB and road cogs are the same spacing on the 11 speed, but on the MTB they dome the extra cog out over the back of the freehub body... they get away with that because the diameter of a 36t /40t etc is so big they are encroaching on a part of the wheel where the spokes have angled in enough towards the rim. Couldn't take that chance with possibility of people running a 23t road cassette on hubs that don't have sufficient spoke clearance closer to the freehub body.
In essence you could run MTB 11 on 10sp trainer body, but the jump in gear ratios wouldn't be great for training... and your derailleur/chain length wouldn't cope with the big cogs.
You have a lot of fans
Raoul to the rescue!
How about the edco monoblock???
I had to Google that. My initial reaction "f*%k that's expensive". US$210 / AU$300 / £170. My word. I guess if it solves a problem, then great!
Yeah too much money its the same like if you take your cassette to a machine shop cheaper
I do believe that a big company (forgot which one ) already did this to their cassettes to fit the hubs
but what if the freehub body gets damaged and need replacement??
+They Live We Sleep In that unlikely event, you're shagged as LeMond are out of the game.... or charge way too much for spares. I can't recall every breaking or having to replace a freehub body.
+Shane Miller *autocorrect. 'Ever' 👍🏼
So Shane, 1.8 mm depth and 1.00 width right? (for machine)
Depth yes, 1.8. Width/circumference doesn't need to be precise, just enough to clear the end stops.
Circumference needs to clear the hub shell of whichever hub you are using.
Shane, I absolutely hated your singlespeed conversion as I'm a fixed gear purist. This video and the wheel balancing video has made me re-subscribe to your channel. Great video, great information. Thank you Sir
er... thanks. I think? Give me a day or two, I'll inadvertently piss you off again I'm sure.
Shane Miller It was
Meant as a Huge compliment. True, you cannot please every idiot out there.
Cheers mate. :) It will be hit and miss as I'm covering a range of things roughly bike related.
Mateeee you have just solve my problem! How much would he charge to get it done!
Anyone can do this. It's a pretty basic hack... it's the tools that are key. I've even been looking at lathes so I can do this.. and make a few shims for Kickrs... and down the rabbit hole I go! :)
Optionally, if you don't want to machine yourself, there are a lot of Chinese prototype houses that can make parts very cheap. About 1/10 of companies in North America / Australia. However, care must be taken on ensuring materials and contamination and Quality control. Obviously, customizing parts would require round trip shipping.
I believe the SRAM PG1130 is compatible with a 10-Speed Freehub body, but is 11 speed.
#BOSSMODE
Just one question... What was the point of doing that on your trainer when you said in the machine shop that you'll never be in that largest cog anyway? Surely that means you don't actually need 11 speed on your trainer...???
+Skinz 72 Correct cog spacing. And one for one compatibility with my 11spd bikes.
Ahh I see. Didn't think of that. Nice one.
So the brifters has 10 clicks went to 11 clicks? How?
It's already in Gear 1.
Click 1 - Gear 2.
Click 2 - Gear 3.
Click 3 - Gear 4.
Click 4 - Gear 5.
Click 5 - Gear 6.
Click 6 - Gear 7.
Click 7 - Gear 8.
Click 8 - Gear 9.
Click 9 - Gear 10.
Click 10 - Gear 11.
Any additional clicks are phantom changes... nothing happens.