Thanks for coming to The Moon with us! 🌝 Please see corrections in popups/description & for more about PerAIfractic who brought Peri's real voice to life visually here check out our FAQ retrorecip.es/faq ➿ Want double the ЯR content and a backstage experience? 👾 Check out Retro Recipes PowerUp! 🚀 patreon.com/perifractic 📼 Dive into bonus videos, get an early start on main vids, jam out to ЯR music, see your name in lights & more! ✨ By supporting the heart and soul of ЯR you help us keep the channel & nostalgia alive 🙌
I'm in a complicated mental situation and watching your video gave me 20 minutes of peace and possibly a little more, thank you very much! Sorry, the English was via Google translator.
Another fantastic video that covers two of my pastimes... computers, amateur radio. I dabbled with satellite communication in the late 80s/early 90s with my Commodore 64 and Amiga 500. It was mostly one way, decoding signals from the UoSAT 9 and 11 satellites. I even wrote software (in Amiga BASIC) that would parse the data received and show decoded telemetry from the satellites in real time. The Dove-Oscar 17 satellite used packet radio and I still have file saved from my C64 showing the decoded packet transmissions. I think Do-17 still transmits (after 34+ years) when the sun illuminated its solar panel. I'm certainly aware of the fantastic work that Joe Taylor has done, I often use WSPR to decode weak VHF signals, often over 1000km away. My callsign is VK5LN/VK5ZEA
Sit your butts down and nerd out. I remember back in 1989 I was 19 and built a SDR chip in an electronics class and end up connecting to a satellite in space. Recently added a tv tuner to that SDR chip and now I’m picking up 40 channels out in the middle of nowhere. Also recently picked up weather radar which is fantastic with no internet connection whatsoever. Sorry kinda off topic. Love your channel
Perifractic, it's truly awe-inspiring how, with the collaborative efforts of many, you've managed to bounce a message off the Moon and capture and decode it on an Amiga 3000. It's remarkable to think that back in the 1980s, when Jay Miner and his loyal dog Mitchy were busy designing and building the Amiga computer, they could never have imagined such an extraordinary achievement would become possible.
As an RTTY and Radio Hobbyist since the Mid 70's this concept has really caught my attention, I can tell a lot of work and effort has gone into putting all this information together, Thankyou Very much It was a pleasure to view your video till the end, The decoding, time and the distance that those messages require to back and forth is very interesting as well. Greetings From the Country Outback - Goulburn, Australia !
Teletype 33, Creed 444, Creed 7B, Creed 75RPTK, oh what fun, I used to have the wire service rattling away so had the news ahead of the BBC (QTH WIrral UK) I hope to get the buggers running again, fancy receiving my SMS via the old tech. Curious Marc set up an old Teletype to RX SMS messages. PC and SDR reception is amazing but there is something about digging a weak signal from the either whilst tracking the Doppler shift. Greetings to you 73's DE G8WOF.
Well just got done watching this and man how cool was that and we even had a few dad jokes in the mix as well. Amazing stuff as always and for once i got to watch it as it went live so that was the best part of my day. Keep up the great work and as always you guys take care and have a great weekend and will catch you in the next one.
I really enjoy your videos and projects. It makes me so happy when I see a new upload. Feeling a bit foolish giving away my two working Acorn Atoms, including tapes with games and full extensive documentation / handbooks in English and Dutch to a museum. Now, at 47, I want to get back in to my old hobbies. Being a geekish nerdy is fun, took me some time to embrace this in myself.
In case anyone was wondering: The hobby astronomer said: ‘Dwingeloo’ (place in the Netherlands’ ‘In het nooit wat nog komt’ In the never that is still yet to come.
Well Christian, you are a massive nerd......and god bless you for it I have to admit I didn't understand most of what you said, but it was great to watch
I'm going with absolutely. Moonbounce is getting increasingly easier to do thanks to better signal techniques for tricky radio scenarios. Not tried it myself but know people who have.
great episode! amazing that you can actually do this - and im impressed that you got a compiler little-endian switch in order to do it! 🤩 well done sir! 🌟
I got to visit that mission control room before the refurb as part of a school trip. Everyone but me raced for seats in the front rows. I went straight for the Flight Director chair you were photographed in. 10 years later I was invited to give a presentation in Seabrook, Texas (home of Johnson Space Center) along with several people from NASA. There was a woman walking around with a piece of the moon cuffed to her arm. We got to talking and she actually remembered me a decade later from the thousands of students she'd spoken with.
Haha what a nice thing to say. It should be made of cheese though after my puns. Thank you and have a wonderful weekend. You'll get those Atari STs back up and running I know it!
@@RetroRecipes Thank you for the good words my friend. :) These are old and brittle machines like me. Keep up you good work and dont let bad comments throw you out of orbit.
The Wow! Signal was decoded on an IBM 1130, which I know very little about except that it's also a 16bit computer, didn't have much ram, and that even by 1977 was long past its sell by date... an Amiga is light years ahead, it'll do fine (assuming you have an antenna the size of a golf course, which I'm sure you do).
the Dutch telescope operator in the Netherlands says "Dwingelo, in het nooit dat nog komt" (google translate: Dwingeloo, into the never that is yet to come).
Amazing experiment! I'm also glad to see Linux coming to the rescue and able to run on a retro machine like the A3000. Now I wonder if this couldn't have been faster using an Atari Falcon. The Falcon has a DSP chip that may be faster to perform FFT 😉 Anyway congratulations to all people involved, that's a great achievement 👏
Hi Perifractic, I remember for a fact, that in the late 80's we were using Commodore 64 to receive Morse signals (which were perfectly deciphered by the C64), Radio fax signals, printable weather maps, Radio Packet over Short Wave Bands in Holland. The Radio Packet was situated on CB radio bands. We were able to send games, programs and photos to and from BBS's, which were mostly Commodore Amiga or PC. So I don't think there would be a problem to receive signals from the moon with the just equipment and converters.
Yes you're right. The extra challenge here though is the signal processing that needs to be carried out - the signals are much weaker than packet data and morse. Fun though!
I used to run Debian/m68k on my A1200/030 at uni, it didn't take 15 mins to boot, but X was about that slow to draw on the screen, not really, but it was slow. It also couldn't run for long because the 030 would overheat and switch off the machine.
The us army signal corps base (Ft Monmouth) in Wall NJ. Home of the Vintage Computer Federation (North East?) the Infoage Science center is the location of that first dish for the moon bounce I believe. The building is still around but the antenna is not. You can visit the location today.
Hey. A new video suggestion. Old missing Commodore machines around the time of the 64 before the 128. There were a number of post Pet and Commodore 64 like business machines. How do these compare to the Commodore 128 that replaces them. It's so stunning how much they failed. Another, is the mystery proposed 16 bit 6502 Atari game machine, that a flare team member noted as being proposed before he got there. I'm interested, as I've proposed a design that turns out is a bit like the 7800 but more advanced. This might be similar, so I'd be interested in hearing about how that worked. Atari really set up its demise, at the time of the Atari VCS. The design I had been planning, I proposed as a simple upgrade to the VCS architecture they could have done in the day and added memory and minor changes over several years and new versions, competing with Mega drive and SNES (but without rotation) and into 32 bits except in 3D. So, a viable cheap machine up till the PlayStation. Atari really needed to do an more advanced and backwards compatible console in the Atari 400, and needed an stripped down cheap ST console, even using an 68008. They simply fell off of the top spots.
i mean, depending on the encoding, you can decode a message from the moon with your ears and a bit of cleverness, particularly if you know morse code. c64's were used by quite a few amateur radio aficionados for logging and some light digital mode encoding and decoding as well. amateur radio is pretty fun.
My dad worked in radar too! US Navy. Where his radar would have sat is at the bottom of the ocean now. Ship was sold to Taiwan and when they were done with her(upwards of 60 years of service by that point) she was sunk for target practice.
Hehe..nice to see my good oooold m68k Linux installation guide is still referenced (12m22s) 🙂. To be honest, though my trusty A3000 is still sitting on a table behind me, it's not been turned on in..uhm..10years or more. Oh well, the times they are a-changing somewhat..
Wow - great to see you here Frank. Thank-you for your work! There wasn't time to go into all the detail - we did progress quite far with a Linux installation but didn't complete. Hope you appreciate the celebration of the older tech and those like you who gave their time and expertise to support it. To the moon!
Go The Netherlands! A little national pride -- we don't have a lot to be proud of otherwise :D Oh and what he said, the literal translation "In the never, that will never come". Who though radio astronomers were philosophers too :D This is a fun and challenging project! WOW, now lets finish watching it! Thanks again for a great episode Chris. BTW.... I do wonder, if it's a half moon if you need to send with twice as much power :P ;) LOL!
Also listedned to it... for me it sounds like: 'Dwingelo ... in het nooit dat nog komt.' Translated: 'Dwingelo (it is a dutch city) ... In the never that has yet to come'. and indeed a great video this is again!
Well done, sir! It's a bit of a mystery why you haven't written your tech-level ham radio license.. It's a similar hobby to retrocomputing in that it spans multiple decades, lets you use equipment from the past (if you choose), and has modern state-of-the-art hardware and software to play with today! 🙂
Good question. The only answer is lack of time. I used to love CB radio as a teen though. It was so exciting when I contacted a helicopter passing our old house! I'd love ham radio. One day!...
@@RetroRecipes Your accent says UK and the UK Foundation licence has a lot more privileges than a US one. It's a lot easier to get now and can be done online/zoom etc
I'm hoping you've finally gotten the ham radio bug and join us...my Apple II replaced my mechanical teletype machine in the early 80's. Maybe see you on the air someday! 73 - Dino KLØS
One can clearly see how fast today's computers are, or conversely how slow even a beefy amiga is. By the way, I was able to use linux on my Amiga back around y2k using the Watchtower-2 distro (a genuine linux 1.2 for 68k cpu) patched to emulate the missing fpu of the 68030@40mhz of my GVP530 board. What a time!
Fabulous. When researching we found there was a relatively large Amiga Linux community around 20 years ago - but not so many around today. If there's an easier / better way to do what we did using a retro machine we'd love to see other ideas and implementations.
Intelligence is solve problems in a complex environment with limited resource hence manage bridge d gap between us n d moon using a non customized 16 bit machine is quite an achievement imao congratulations! 💡
Imagine, Commodore Amiga system development had continued and leaped from the Power PC into other RISC technology processors, the A Series that now powers iPhones, iPads, and now as a System on Chip, in the Macintosh. I think Amiga would have dwarfed Apple by this point, as it’s systems matured and had the same refinement as OSX has had. If this had happened, Windows would have been the one to die out.
Do they bounce the whole Amiga computer? :) Funny fact: most computer hardware used in space missions wasn’t much more complicated than CBM64 hardware, so the actual Amiga computer might be overkill.
The fun part of this is decoding a signal that is 0.00000000000000000000025% weaker than when it was sent after travelling nearly half a million miles requires multi-threading technology and a 68000 at least. More info in the video soon! 🚀
First thing first, it is not the computer that matters, so much. Moon bouncing is a known trick by HAM radio operators for decades and able to do that without a computer at all. What is important is radio equipment. We can do this with a Commodore 64, any Amiga, a TI-99/4A. What you need, typically is a device (sort of a modem like device) called a Terminal Node Controller. This would then hook up to your radio equipment. You need two computer+tnc+radio equipment and antenna. One configured to transmit and the other to receive. You can bounce off the moon like an RF reflector at a strong enough level. This usually requires more powerful radios than your typical trucker on the road might have.
Every modern wifi card or wifi dongle, etc. essentially integrates the fundamental electronics of a TNC into the controller chip of wifi transceiver system, the part before going out to the antenna in RF form. They just don't use the term "terminal node controller". As they are using different communication protocols. However it is still a fundamental part of over the air computer telecommunications. Terms that old timers used but a lot of the younger generation never learned so it's Greek to them.... unless they know Greek. Anyway, good video about the things a lot of people just did not know about.
Those of you who don't know the term, terminal node controller, do some Google search, there is stuff that you'll learn from the terminology and what was possible even with your 8 bit computers. If you were lucky, you could have linked wirelessly to ARPANET. The precursor to NSFNET which later became internet.
When I mean, you had to be lucky to be located so you can connect to the packet radio network at universities that were linked up to ARPANET and get through login credentials.
Really enjoyed this. Satisfying. Thanks for the great content as always. On a side note, is there some weird ADR going on in this video or maybe even some AI generation? Perrys' face has just something off with it. Blinking like the video is playing backwards from time to time and the lips not matching the audio on occasion. Am I seeing things or did anyone else pick up on this at all? Weird.
I reckon the best retro computer for this would be the ATW (Atari Transputer Workstation) using HeliOS... and yes, it did get released in the late 80's!
I love how super-nerds will come together to help on a project, not for money or fame, but because they like helping other people and solving problems. Can you do a project on using a 8 bit computer to control a laser weapon that can shoot down a drone? The British have just publicised their new laser that does this for £10 ($13) a shot, but I'm sure it can be controlled by a C64. Didn't KITT have a laser weapon fitted as an upgrade? 🙂
The Amiga 3000 is a fully 32bit, 68030 powered machine (with either a 68881 or 68882 FPU, depending on if you have the 16MHz or 25MHz version) that was introduced in June of 1990. So no, as someone who has had my Amiga 3000 since early 1991, it was neither a 16bit machine nor was it available in the 1980s.
@4:03 He says:"Dwingelo" Never heard of that before. And after that he says:"In het nooit, dat nog komt." Translated:"In the never, that will come." Yeah I know, doesn't even make much sence in dutch either.
Last mission to the Moon: USA - fuel leak, not getting even close; R.F. - fast collision to Moon; Japan - finally some landing, but electricity did not work
@@RetroRecipes love your channel , time seems to fly I used to love the Contact movie for all the gear they used , some of those dishes would have been great for your Earth moon earth radio video . Do you remember the original “Arrival “ movie with Charlie Sheen ? He discovered a signal originating from outer space working at some SETI type place and was thrown off the project , he then got a job for a satellite tv company and used all the local dishes in his area as an array and uncovered an alien plot. It was great . I’ve not done the moon thing but did bounce a APRS signal through ISS using a kenwood THD7E handheld around 2001. Love your channel ,thanks for providing great content and entertainment
How exactly is multithreading on a single core 68k faster? Unless using the custom Amiga chips, every thread change it pauses working on the program to execute… the program. It’s 1 thing at a time. If anything it causes cache flushes and unnecessary context switches.
We were seeing error messages when compiling some C++ code from the original program that were hinting at multitasking. We were trying to cross compile, and the cross compilers only supported single thread. And we're not experts - we were trying to learn as we went.
Additionally, whilst multithreading on a single-core CPU, like the 68030, doesn't increase the CPU's speed per se, it can make the overall process faster. This is because it reduces idle time by switching between tasks, keeping the CPU busy during idle time and making better use of its capabilities. Without comparing it do a different software approach we can't say for sure, but 31 mins wasn't terrible considering the task at hand. I'd suspect we shaved some time off by going this route.
What idle time is there though if its crunching the signal? On single core doing multithreading usually is to keep the ui from being frozen. Maybe to issue commands to load more data from disk? Interesting.
I think 31 mins is pretty good but I do wonder if a sequential algorithm would have actually been faster, I can't really see how multithreading on a single core helps in anyway. I could see if other chips were involved i.e. slow I/O compared to task switching but wouldn't you either read as much data as possible into memory to process it in which case you don't need multithreading or if you are multithreading then each thread would read a section of the file but they will stall each other so again I can't see this helping on a single core. Don't get me wrong, this is not a criticism just my software engineering brain working overtime! :)
Do you need a radio transmitter license operator certification to legally transmit on those frequencies at that power, or just receiving? Outside of certified bandwidth?
Now the Sinclair QL had multi-tasking technology with its 68008 and QDOS operating system so that might have worked. That would be a challenge. I just need to disconnect my Sinclair ZX81 from Voyager One. Their conversation is getting far too weird. 😉Apparently, the universe isn't really huge, everything beyond the Galaxy is done with mirrors. 😨 Great Job, Perifractic! And that Retro Recipes melody sounds very Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
Not really sure how the multi-tasking is helping here though. Yes the Amiga and QL had multitasking but in the context of suspending one thread/task to run another, it's not like they could run simultaneously like they can over hyper threads or multiple cores like we have today. I do wonder, if in this particular case, it would have been faster to use a sequential algorithm.
@@cfordlike Very true. It would be remarkably slow. Actually QDOS got ported to other platforms including Amiga and ST which gave multitasking abilities to both. Theoretically either platform could run a Unix port and the Thor XVI would probably be a better bet.
last time we went to the moon this computer you are using would either be more powerful than anything nasa had or at least be on par with a 1.000.000$+ supercomputer as big as a building. and people thought we would be having a city on Pluto by now but not a computer as powerful and small as the amiga .
Thanks for coming to The Moon with us! 🌝 Please see corrections in popups/description & for more about PerAIfractic who brought Peri's real voice to life visually here check out our FAQ retrorecip.es/faq ➿ Want double the ЯR content and a backstage experience? 👾 Check out Retro Recipes PowerUp! 🚀 patreon.com/perifractic 📼 Dive into bonus videos, get an early start on main vids, jam out to ЯR music, see your name in lights & more! ✨ By supporting the heart and soul of ЯR you help us keep the channel & nostalgia alive 🙌
u ever thought of trying for a HAM licence @RetroRecipes ? :)
@@thebongmaster One day for sure!
@@RetroRecipes looking forward to some SSTV decoding on an Atari or Amiga then \o/
I'm in a complicated mental situation and watching your video gave me 20 minutes of peace and possibly a little more, thank you very much! Sorry, the English was via Google translator.
dont usually watrch your videos but this was amazing, so interesting!
Another fantastic video that covers two of my pastimes... computers, amateur radio. I dabbled with satellite communication in the late 80s/early 90s with my Commodore 64 and Amiga 500. It was mostly one way, decoding signals from the UoSAT 9 and 11 satellites. I even wrote software (in Amiga BASIC) that would parse the data received and show decoded telemetry from the satellites in real time. The Dove-Oscar 17 satellite used packet radio and I still have file saved from my C64 showing the decoded packet transmissions. I think Do-17 still transmits (after 34+ years) when the sun illuminated its solar panel. I'm certainly aware of the fantastic work that Joe Taylor has done, I often use WSPR to decode weak VHF signals, often over 1000km away. My callsign is VK5LN/VK5ZEA
Sit your butts down and nerd out. I remember back in 1989 I was 19 and built a SDR chip in an electronics class and end up connecting to a satellite in space. Recently added a tv tuner to that SDR chip and now I’m picking up 40 channels out in the middle of nowhere. Also recently picked up weather radar which is fantastic with no internet connection whatsoever. Sorry kinda off topic. Love your channel
Please do share :)
Perifractic, it's truly awe-inspiring how, with the collaborative efforts of many, you've managed to bounce a message off the Moon and capture and decode it on an Amiga 3000. It's remarkable to think that back in the 1980s, when Jay Miner and his loyal dog Mitchy were busy designing and building the Amiga computer, they could never have imagined such an extraordinary achievement would become possible.
As a ham radio operator i must say this was one of your best videos!
Great work!!!!
The Unix computers they showed in "Jurassic Park" were basically the Silicon Graphics workstations they used to do the CGI in the movie.
Everything would be better with Silicon Graphics Computers!
I love your channel keeping the blast from the past alive
What a thrill to watch this premiere! Great video, great fun, great crew and last but not least, great Amiga!
As an RTTY and Radio Hobbyist since the Mid 70's this concept has really caught my attention, I can tell a lot of work and effort has gone into putting all this information together, Thankyou Very much It was a pleasure to view your video till the end, The decoding, time and the distance that those messages require to back and forth is very interesting as well.
Greetings From the Country Outback - Goulburn, Australia !
Teletype 33, Creed 444, Creed 7B, Creed 75RPTK, oh what fun, I used to have the wire service rattling away so had the news ahead of the BBC (QTH WIrral UK) I hope to get the buggers running again, fancy receiving my SMS via the old tech. Curious Marc set up an old Teletype to RX SMS messages. PC and SDR reception is amazing but there is something about digging a weak signal from the either whilst tracking the Doppler shift. Greetings to you 73's DE G8WOF.
Well just got done watching this and man how cool was that and we even had a few dad jokes in the mix as well. Amazing stuff as always and for once i got to watch it as it went live so that was the best part of my day. Keep up the great work and as always you guys take care and have a great weekend and will catch you in the next one.
Thanks for joining us in the capsule to The Moon!
Years retro recipes has put real quality content out here, thank you guys, sincerely
Anytime! (But mostly on Saturdays.) Thank you for your kind words! Means a lot 👍🕹
wow!!perifractic, you crushed it with this vid.....
Thank you for your kind words! Means a lot 👍🕹 A true team effort on this one!
I really enjoy your videos and projects. It makes me so happy when I see a new upload. Feeling a bit foolish giving away my two working Acorn Atoms, including tapes with games and full extensive documentation / handbooks in English and Dutch to a museum. Now, at 47, I want to get back in to my old hobbies. Being a geekish nerdy is fun, took me some time to embrace this in myself.
Thanks for watching and enjoying the nostalgia with me!
Maybe a MiSTER is something for you? An FPGA-based system that can copy the old systems.
So epic!!! I love these projects so much.
Thanks for showing off amateur radio! Great video. Now I need an Amiga in my shack...
More amateur radio related stuff please! :) its so much fun.
In case anyone was wondering:
The hobby astronomer said:
‘Dwingeloo’ (place in the Netherlands’
‘In het nooit wat nog komt’
In the never that is still yet to come.
Brilliant! This very much resembles what I imagined doing with a computer as a little boy in the late 80s and early 90s, if only I could have one.
I love your persistence - great job by all involved!
Well Christian, you are a massive nerd......and god bless you for it
I have to admit I didn't understand most of what you said, but it was great to watch
That is fascinating, a dedication to try and achieve something, and fun to see the site at the end.
love this. one of the coolest videos from you so far! awesome work!
Thank you for your kind words! Means a lot 👍🕹
I love this kind of content - ultra geek, retro as hell, well explained and all in all, exciting. Thank you. :)
🙌
I get so excited for you videos!!! 🎉
🙌
I'm going with absolutely. Moonbounce is getting increasingly easier to do thanks to better signal techniques for tricky radio scenarios. Not tried it myself but know people who have.
as an Amiga and radio fanatic, This episode hit the spot👍 would be grate to see more like this as SSTV is grate all so.
great episode! amazing that you can actually do this - and im impressed that you got a compiler little-endian switch in order to do it! 🤩 well done sir! 🌟
I got to visit that mission control room before the refurb as part of a school trip. Everyone but me raced for seats in the front rows. I went straight for the Flight Director chair you were photographed in.
10 years later I was invited to give a presentation in Seabrook, Texas (home of Johnson Space Center) along with several people from NASA. There was a woman walking around with a piece of the moon cuffed to her arm. We got to talking and she actually remembered me a decade later from the thousands of students she'd spoken with.
That's wonderful. Flight Directors FTW!
This was Amazing to watch and enjoy. Thanks!
Great video, Perifractic! You are an unlimited dwell of ideas! They should name a moon crater after you: Mares Perifractum! You made my day!
Haha what a nice thing to say. It should be made of cheese though after my puns. Thank you and have a wonderful weekend. You'll get those Atari STs back up and running I know it!
@@RetroRecipes Thank you for the good words my friend. :) These are old and brittle machines like me. Keep up you good work and dont let bad comments throw you out of orbit.
@@GeorgesChannel Nice way to put it mate. And this time round the comments have so far been wonderful 🙏
The Wow! Signal was decoded on an IBM 1130, which I know very little about except that it's also a 16bit computer, didn't have much ram, and that even by 1977 was long past its sell by date... an Amiga is light years ahead, it'll do fine (assuming you have an antenna the size of a golf course, which I'm sure you do).
the Dutch telescope operator in the Netherlands says "Dwingelo, in het nooit dat nog komt" (google translate: Dwingeloo, into the never that is yet to come).
Amazing experiment! I'm also glad to see Linux coming to the rescue and able to run on a retro machine like the A3000. Now I wonder if this couldn't have been faster using an Atari Falcon. The Falcon has a DSP chip that may be faster to perform FFT 😉
Anyway congratulations to all people involved, that's a great achievement 👏
Great job, guys!
Ok that was super cool! Well done!
As you said ONLY AMIGA MAKES IT POSSIBLE!!!!! Loved watching this.
What a gem this channel is
Awww bless ya!
Cool to see Peri messing around with my other favorite hobby... Amateur Radio.
what a awesome fun project and great video
Just shows when we put our joint minds together anything is possible, shame the rest of the world cant. well done every one.
Awesome video.. I'd love to see a video about the "Demoscene" on early computers. it fits right in the middle of your retro recipe time frame.
In case you didn't see this one ua-cam.com/video/-HKAr9-bumI/v-deo.html
@@RetroRecipes Thanks for pointing me in that direction. that's the 80's/90's I remember. :P
Got to watch this again . Two reasons my dog kept pestering me and couldn't take it all in . Secondly, this stuff fascinates me
Loved to watch.... 73's de moonbouncer LA3EQ
Very impressive, it's a shame an Amiga could never do JT65 in real time, but QRSS...
another great production!
Hi Perifractic, I remember for a fact, that in the late 80's we were using Commodore 64 to receive Morse signals (which were perfectly deciphered by the C64), Radio fax signals, printable weather maps, Radio Packet over Short Wave Bands in Holland. The Radio Packet was situated on CB radio bands. We were able to send games, programs and photos to and from BBS's, which were mostly Commodore Amiga or PC. So I don't think there would be a problem to receive signals from the moon with the just equipment and converters.
Yes you're right. The extra challenge here though is the signal processing that needs to be carried out - the signals are much weaker than packet data and morse. Fun though!
@@g0mtnleeThanks. Writing my answer, I thought it might be something different. Though interesting mentioning it....
I used to run Debian/m68k on my A1200/030 at uni, it didn't take 15 mins to boot, but X was about that slow to draw on the screen, not really, but it was slow. It also couldn't run for long because the 030 would overheat and switch off the machine.
The us army signal corps base (Ft Monmouth) in Wall NJ. Home of the Vintage Computer Federation (North East?) the Infoage Science center is the location of that first dish for the moon bounce I believe. The building is still around but the antenna is not. You can visit the location today.
Love seeing some ham radio on the channel! Long time subscriber here! 73, KU7PDX
Hey. A new video suggestion. Old missing Commodore machines around the time of the 64 before the 128. There were a number of post Pet and Commodore 64 like business machines. How do these compare to the Commodore 128 that replaces them. It's so stunning how much they failed.
Another, is the mystery proposed 16 bit 6502 Atari game machine, that a flare team member noted as being proposed before he got there. I'm interested, as I've proposed a design that turns out is a bit like the 7800 but more advanced. This might be similar, so I'd be interested in hearing about how that worked. Atari really set up its demise, at the time of the Atari VCS. The design I had been planning, I proposed as a simple upgrade to the VCS architecture they could have done in the day and added memory and minor changes over several years and new versions, competing with Mega drive and SNES (but without rotation) and into 32 bits except in 3D. So, a viable cheap machine up till the PlayStation.
Atari really needed to do an more advanced and backwards compatible console in the Atari 400, and needed an stripped down cheap ST console, even using an 68008. They simply fell off of the top spots.
As an Amateur radio operator this is very interesting, well done!.
FT8 should work as well.
i mean, depending on the encoding, you can decode a message from the moon with your ears and a bit of cleverness, particularly if you know morse code. c64's were used by quite a few amateur radio aficionados for logging and some light digital mode encoding and decoding as well. amateur radio is pretty fun.
My dad worked in radar too! US Navy.
Where his radar would have sat is at the bottom of the ocean now. Ship was sold to Taiwan and when they were done with her(upwards of 60 years of service by that point) she was sunk for target practice.
Hehe..nice to see my good oooold m68k Linux installation guide is still referenced (12m22s) 🙂. To be honest, though my trusty A3000 is still sitting on a table behind me, it's not been turned on in..uhm..10years or more. Oh well, the times they are a-changing somewhat..
Wow - great to see you here Frank. Thank-you for your work! There wasn't time to go into all the detail - we did progress quite far with a Linux installation but didn't complete. Hope you appreciate the celebration of the older tech and those like you who gave their time and expertise to support it. To the moon!
Go The Netherlands! A little national pride -- we don't have a lot to be proud of otherwise :D Oh and what he said, the literal translation "In the never, that will never come". Who though radio astronomers were philosophers too :D
This is a fun and challenging project! WOW, now lets finish watching it! Thanks again for a great episode Chris.
BTW.... I do wonder, if it's a half moon if you need to send with twice as much power :P ;) LOL!
Also listedned to it... for me it sounds like: 'Dwingelo ... in het nooit dat nog komt.' Translated: 'Dwingelo (it is a dutch city) ... In the never that has yet to come'. and indeed a great video this is again!
Plot twist: This is where humanity made contact with the Dark God Zophar.
Had to look away from the slightly disturbing and highly manipulated Perifractic bits but great idea for a project!
Was it really that bad m-m-man?
he said, "Dwingelo - in het nooit dat nog komt ..." it's from a poem and it means (more or less), "in the never, that has yet to come"
Classic retro recipes!
Well done, sir! It's a bit of a mystery why you haven't written your tech-level ham radio license.. It's a similar hobby to retrocomputing in that it spans multiple decades, lets you use equipment from the past (if you choose), and has modern state-of-the-art hardware and software to play with today! 🙂
Good question. The only answer is lack of time. I used to love CB radio as a teen though. It was so exciting when I contacted a helicopter passing our old house! I'd love ham radio. One day!...
@@RetroRecipes Your accent says UK and the UK Foundation licence has a lot more privileges than a US one. It's a lot easier to get now and can be done online/zoom etc
As an Amateur Radio Operator, I understand the basis of JT65, and the concept of FEC, Forward Error Correction. KE8TNW, Hubbard, Ohio
Great video well researched
Thank you for your kind words! Means a lot 👍🕹
That “weakmon” Python JT65 decoder you tried initially? It was written by Robert Morris, also the author of the first computer worm back in 1988!
Dwingeloo, in the never that's upon us. That's what he said. A bit cryptic, I know. Greetings from Belgium!
Thank you! Nice words.
🤘
you used K.I.T.T's computer! 😂 thank you for this historic adventure
I'm hoping you've finally gotten the ham radio bug and join us...my Apple II replaced my mechanical teletype machine in the early 80's. Maybe see you on the air someday! 73 - Dino KLØS
One can clearly see how fast today's computers are, or conversely how slow even a beefy amiga is.
By the way, I was able to use linux on my Amiga back around y2k using the Watchtower-2 distro (a genuine linux 1.2 for 68k cpu) patched to emulate the missing fpu of the 68030@40mhz of my GVP530 board. What a time!
Fabulous. When researching we found there was a relatively large Amiga Linux community around 20 years ago - but not so many around today. If there's an easier / better way to do what we did using a retro machine we'd love to see other ideas and implementations.
BOOOOOM! Sorry that was my mind.
Masterclass 👌👌
Intelligence is solve problems in a complex environment with limited resource hence manage bridge d gap between us n d moon using a non customized 16 bit machine is quite an achievement imao congratulations! 💡
Great job with the AI too.😊
Imagine, Commodore Amiga system development had continued and leaped from the Power PC into other RISC technology processors, the A Series that now powers iPhones, iPads, and now as a System on Chip, in the Macintosh. I think Amiga would have dwarfed Apple by this point, as it’s systems matured and had the same refinement as OSX has had. If this had happened, Windows would have been the one to die out.
The ai face is a little disconcerting ,but that was an interesting adventure to try and get that ported to the Amiga.
Hey that's m-m-my face though! retrorecip.es/faq
@4:09 "Dwingeloo... in the never yet to come"
JT 65 is like the ax45 packet radio we’re familiar with then
Do they bounce the whole Amiga computer? :)
Funny fact: most computer hardware used in space missions wasn’t much more complicated than CBM64 hardware, so the actual Amiga computer might be overkill.
The fun part of this is decoding a signal that is 0.00000000000000000000025% weaker than when it was sent after travelling nearly half a million miles requires multi-threading technology and a 68000 at least. More info in the video soon! 🚀
😮@@RetroRecipes
First thing first, it is not the computer that matters, so much. Moon bouncing is a known trick by HAM radio operators for decades and able to do that without a computer at all. What is important is radio equipment. We can do this with a Commodore 64, any Amiga, a TI-99/4A. What you need, typically is a device (sort of a modem like device) called a Terminal Node Controller. This would then hook up to your radio equipment. You need two computer+tnc+radio equipment and antenna. One configured to transmit and the other to receive. You can bounce off the moon like an RF reflector at a strong enough level. This usually requires more powerful radios than your typical trucker on the road might have.
Every modern wifi card or wifi dongle, etc. essentially integrates the fundamental electronics of a TNC into the controller chip of wifi transceiver system, the part before going out to the antenna in RF form. They just don't use the term "terminal node controller". As they are using different communication protocols. However it is still a fundamental part of over the air computer telecommunications. Terms that old timers used but a lot of the younger generation never learned so it's Greek to them.... unless they know Greek. Anyway, good video about the things a lot of people just did not know about.
Those of you who don't know the term, terminal node controller, do some Google search, there is stuff that you'll learn from the terminology and what was possible even with your 8 bit computers. If you were lucky, you could have linked wirelessly to ARPANET. The precursor to NSFNET which later became internet.
When I mean, you had to be lucky to be located so you can connect to the packet radio network at universities that were linked up to ARPANET and get through login credentials.
I like the new jingle
Really enjoyed this. Satisfying. Thanks for the great content as always.
On a side note, is there some weird ADR going on in this video or maybe even some AI generation? Perrys' face has just something off with it. Blinking like the video is playing backwards from time to time and the lips not matching the audio on occasion. Am I seeing things or did anyone else pick up on this at all? Weird.
So cool 👍👍
I reckon the best retro computer for this would be the ATW (Atari Transputer Workstation) using HeliOS... and yes, it did get released in the late 80's!
Good stuff!
I love how super-nerds will come together to help on a project, not for money or fame, but because they like helping other people and solving problems. Can you do a project on using a 8 bit computer to control a laser weapon that can shoot down a drone? The British have just publicised their new laser that does this for £10 ($13) a shot, but I'm sure it can be controlled by a C64. Didn't KITT have a laser weapon fitted as an upgrade? 🙂
The Amiga 3000 is a fully 32bit, 68030 powered machine (with either a 68881 or 68882 FPU, depending on if you have the 16MHz or 25MHz version) that was introduced in June of 1990. So no, as someone who has had my Amiga 3000 since early 1991, it was neither a 16bit machine nor was it available in the 1980s.
@4:03 He says:"Dwingelo" Never heard of that before. And after that he says:"In het nooit, dat nog komt." Translated:"In the never, that will come." Yeah I know, doesn't even make much sence in dutch either.
Last mission to the Moon:
USA - fuel leak, not getting even close; R.F. - fast collision to Moon; Japan - finally some landing, but electricity did not work
It just needs a pistorm to get into the future! xD
Amazing stuff. Next, try sending an actual Atari ST to the moon! And leave it there. Where it can't hurt anyone any more.
😅
What license do you need to own and operate an antenna like that and how much does it cost to renew the license?
When he said retro films such as Contact & Goldeneye , they still seem quite recent to me lol
It's an interesting question. What is retro? For me, anything from the 90s and back. Which would include those 95 and 97 movies!
@@RetroRecipes love your channel , time seems to fly I used to love the Contact movie for all the gear they used , some of those dishes would have been great for your Earth moon earth radio video . Do you remember the original “Arrival “ movie with Charlie Sheen ? He discovered a signal originating from outer space working at some SETI type place and was thrown off the project , he then got a job for a satellite tv company and used all the local dishes in his area as an array and uncovered an alien plot. It was great . I’ve not done the moon thing but did bounce a APRS signal through ISS using a kenwood THD7E handheld around 2001.
Love your channel ,thanks for providing great content and entertainment
How exactly is multithreading on a single core 68k faster? Unless using the custom Amiga chips, every thread change it pauses working on the program to execute… the program. It’s 1 thing at a time. If anything it causes cache flushes and unnecessary context switches.
We were seeing error messages when compiling some C++ code from the original program that were hinting at multitasking. We were trying to cross compile, and the cross compilers only supported single thread. And we're not experts - we were trying to learn as we went.
Additionally, whilst multithreading on a single-core CPU, like the 68030, doesn't increase the CPU's speed per se, it can make the overall process faster. This is because it reduces idle time by switching between tasks, keeping the CPU busy during idle time and making better use of its capabilities. Without comparing it do a different software approach we can't say for sure, but 31 mins wasn't terrible considering the task at hand. I'd suspect we shaved some time off by going this route.
What idle time is there though if its crunching the signal? On single core doing multithreading usually is to keep the ui from being frozen. Maybe to issue commands to load more data from disk? Interesting.
@@keyboard_g This method was new to us but all I can suggest is that the answer to your question is "some" time :)
I think 31 mins is pretty good but I do wonder if a sequential algorithm would have actually been faster, I can't really see how multithreading on a single core helps in anyway. I could see if other chips were involved i.e. slow I/O compared to task switching but wouldn't you either read as much data as possible into memory to process it in which case you don't need multithreading or if you are multithreading then each thread would read a section of the file but they will stall each other so again I can't see this helping on a single core.
Don't get me wrong, this is not a criticism just my software engineering brain working overtime! :)
Do you need a radio transmitter license operator certification to legally transmit on those frequencies at that power, or just receiving? Outside of certified bandwidth?
You would need a licence if you wanted to transmit - but for reception and decoding as we were doing everyone is free to do that.
Now the Sinclair QL had multi-tasking technology with its 68008 and QDOS operating system so that might have worked.
That would be a challenge.
I just need to disconnect my Sinclair ZX81 from Voyager One. Their conversation is getting far too weird. 😉Apparently, the universe isn't really huge, everything beyond the Galaxy is done with mirrors. 😨
Great Job, Perifractic! And that Retro Recipes melody sounds very Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
Good points all round!
Not really sure how the multi-tasking is helping here though. Yes the Amiga and QL had multitasking but in the context of suspending one thread/task to run another, it's not like they could run simultaneously like they can over hyper threads or multiple cores like we have today. I do wonder, if in this particular case, it would have been faster to use a sequential algorithm.
@@cfordlike Very true. It would be remarkably slow. Actually QDOS got ported to other platforms including Amiga and ST which gave multitasking abilities to both.
Theoretically either platform could run a Unix port and the Thor XVI would probably be a better bet.
The Dutch person said: Dwingeloo, in the never that is yet to come
Dwingeloo is a town in the Netherlands
Thank you! Nice words.
Great video ! Can you put a reference to the music you always use in your video please ?
retrorecip.es/music :)
@@RetroRecipes thanks !
last time we went to the moon this computer you are using would either be more powerful than anything nasa had or at least be on par with a 1.000.000$+ supercomputer as big as a building. and people thought we would be having a city on Pluto by now but not a computer as powerful and small as the amiga .
I broke the law in nineteeneightyfaw for a Commodaw Sixtyfaw!