Pilot Watch Duel - Sinn 104 Vs Rolex GMT Master II - The Best Under $1500 Compared To A Luxury Icon
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- Опубліковано 21 бер 2018
- Today we duel two truly wonderful watches that have become favorites for me and so many other watch enthusiasts. How does one of the best everyday watches and undisputed king of automatic aviation watches under $1500 compare to the most iconic pilot watch of all time?
In this video I take an in-depth look at how my Sinn 104 compares to the legendary Rolex GMT Master II (Ref. 16710). I examine their history, design, quality, performance, style, and versatility, among many other attributes. Will this be a one-sided slaughter, or a David and Goliath style outcome?
Ultimately I ask: is it worth spending more than 8 times as much for the Rolex over the Sinn? Enjoy the aviation watch dog fight and don't forget to share your own scores in the comments below.
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"The Sinn is what Rolex used to be." - Very well said!
If I had to choose between a GMT and the Sinn 104 I'd pick the GMT. Then I would sell it and buy a bunch of 104's.
I like your style sir ;-)
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
Great answer 💯
I've owned 4 Rolexes, (2 GMTs), and I'm on my first Sinn. Couldn't agree more. Very studied, well constructed analysis.
Thank you so much for sharing that, very much appreciated.
Best regards,
TGV
For sure! Love the new U50 , plus the 105 UTC ! Wish Sinn could achieve more power reserve movements like ETA but that’s another thing…. Love my Sinn 104 rock solid like my Certina DS Action ( better power and better day date view than Sellita movements….) all the best for all the community
I have been watching your 104 videos over and over again over the last week. I'm so close to getting the Sinn.
In the words of Dutch, "Do it, do it now!" ;-)
I hope you go for it my friend.
Best regards,
TGV
Do it you won’t regret it!
@@theurbangentry Sinn 104, ordered.
@lvdwal1981 It seems the reference has eluded you....
Interesting comparison, I love both but the Sinn is undeniably better value pound for pound.
I like the 104 with the white dial, I think that really pops.
You should see it with the red seconds hand. The red hand really makes the white and black look amazing.
I used to wear a Rolex GMT when serving in the Signals in Malaya in the 1960s. It was much bigger than any thing else and was almost perfect as we needed the GMT facility as Signals works to Greenwich meantime all over the world The conditions were mostly high humidity caused by jungle conditions and heat. The main problem was the metal bracelet as the catch kept snapping open and a rash or infection on the back of the wrist where the back of the watch covered the skin on the wrist. Do not forget this was before the NATO, SEATO or ZULU strap was even a glint in anybodies eye.
As an owner of the Sinn 104, I was chuffed to see you put it in the ring with the GMT! The 104 was my first mechanical watch, and I had to go put it on as I started watching this video. My Seiko Alpinist has edged the 104 out of daily wear lately, but putting it on again for the first time in a week or so reminds me just how great it is, especially when price is taken into account. Bang for buck, the 104 is hard to beat.
You just named 2/3 if my ideal 3-watch micro collection, the other being a G-shock GW5000U-1JF. I'm always on the lookout for the right SARB017, and am about to green-light a 104 St Sa I. Just can't decide: classic black or beautiful sunburst anthracite? 🤷🏼
“SINN is what Rolex used to be” - absolutely spot on ! Inhouse movements are a great bonus for the watch producer (their supply chain is more secure), but I cant see any benefits for the watch user. But you got to give credit to the marketing departments from the different watch producers, that they have managed to turn this into a selling point.
Great comparison as always! I've been watching your channel for quite a while now, and I must thank you. You reignited my passion for watch collecting as soon as I started watching your channel. Not to mention - you are an exceptional resource of information. Whenever I consider a watch purchase - I check your channel to find a review haha.
I was hoping that you'd duel the Sinn with the Fortis like you were considering because I just bought the Fortis Cosmonaut's Chronograph, and I love it. The Sinn is definitely my next purchase goal (as soon as they get back in stock haha). How would you compare the white dial version of the Sinn to your black? I like them both, but I wish the bright white was more off-white or cream - That'd look amazing with the vintage styling of the watch.
Great review. It's amazing how well the sink performed against such formidable competition. I bought a 104 myself after your reviews last year. I'm very happy with it . Try a strapcode super engineer bracelet on it yourself .
the duels are excellent videos. No one does it like you. I would love to see more they are interesting and fun. Maybe get viewers to send in watches to duel each other i would thanks. tgv keep up the awesome work.
Liked the way you breakdown and rate the watches, having a Value check list is really a Good idea! Keep making those awesome comparison video....Thumb Up TGV. Cheers!
Thank you LSK,
So glad you approve sir.
Best regards,
TGV
Wow so so close, I was genuinely surprised by that result. I doubt I will ever own a GMT but I will definitely own a 104 as I’ve admired it since I first saw you review it. In all fairness though it really was up against such a Goliath that the Rolex GMT is but didn’t it do well. Even if I had the funds to buy a GMT I wouldn’t be able to stop myself thinking of all the other pieces I could buy, the watch addicts dilemma 🤦♂️ cheers for the vid man.
Yes, another TGV video! Absolutely love the channel, Sir. You got me into watches. Keep on doing what you doing. Best, JP
Thank you JP!
So glad to hear, I am honored. Enjoy the journey my friend.
Best regards,
TGV
You got it! Thanks for the advice on the VC Overseas 2nd gen in the last live video. About to pull the trigger ;)
I'm looking forward to getting my hands on, the new Tudor Black Bay 58! Perfect size for my skinny wrist. One of the true gems at baselworld 2018 from tudor.
Hi Tristano!
Great review, very nicely illustrated. Congrat!
After trying on many watches I recognised how much important the readability for me. In this case I really tend to hunt watches which can deliver this option. Sinn seems to be a winner at that point, while the reliability of the movement is still very high, aesthetically also we can talk about a very strong timepiece, however the Rolex diver is a 'Rolex'. Interesting comparison, I really enjoyed that, because it is consequent, precise and highly informative, regarding the background of the two watches and showing their history like a very exciting documentary.
Love this style of you.
Thanks, Robert!
P.S. Have you seen the new TUDOR Black Bay GMT? Veeeery pretty! :)
Really enjoyed this balanced comparison. I so want to like the Sinn enough to buy one but not there quite yet. I’m also a product of the 80s and while I love my 116710 I don’t connect with it the way I did with my Coke GMT. The big maxi case and the polished center links don’t appeal to me much but it’s still a keeper. I am now on the hunt for a 16710 no holes and solid end links. Don’t care the cost; just gotta have one, never to be sold, once I find the right one.
Separately, I’m really excited about the Tudor Fifty-Eight 39mm. I have a 79230R but this new smaller and thinner Tudor looks like it’s a sure thing for the collection.
Hey TGV, Thanks for the great video. What do you think about the New GMT-Master II ? (especially since it already comes in new JUBILÉ bracelet). I'm really interested in getting one but not even official Rolex dealers could get their hands on it that easy. What would be the best way of buyying one when it comes out? I live in North America. cheers mate.
BTW, I'm doing a Schwarzkopf as I write this, wearing both the GMT and the Sinn! Thank you for your passion, and reigniting my passion for fine time pieces. Your enthusiasm is simply infectious!
Man... that intro, TGV you are the best.
Thank you sir!
Very kind of you to say.
Best regards,
TGV
TGV! Youuuuuuu son of a bitch! 💪
Looking forward to your comparison of the new Tudor Black Bay GMT and it's Rolex big brother. The new Black Bay GMT looks absolutely stunning. Great video.
GENIUS idea and I will certainly happen.
Thank you Marc, I look forward to it.
Best regards,
TGV
Congratulations on another very interesting and well executed video. To me, based on the complications both watches offer the natural contender from Sinn's product range for the Rolex would have been either the 856 UTC or the 857 UTC.
Great video TGV, I love my Sinn 104 too, I have it on a black string ray leather strap looks fantastic. Also Jubilee fan here. I think If I had to get a GMT, I would get a Tudor GMT, looks stunning at a great price and vintage look. Will have a look on them on Saturday in Baselworld. Best Regards from the Black Forrest, Abdul
BTW just got to see the new Sinn 103 Blue special edition, limited to 500 pieces, what a time piece
Great review, really enjoying your channel. You need to review the Rolex oyster perpetual 34mm olive green dial :) Its a very good looking Rolex that doesnt get much attention. I got bird-like wrists and cant wear sinn or rolex gmt 40+ mm!!
I know it's been 2 yeara or so when you posted thisl . But my Sinn 104 in Matte finish came today, have it up and running,, very happy. Thanks for the video and have a Happy New Year. Maybe someday I will get a Rolex, and to me it would be a pre owned Explorer II, not vintage, but current model or one previous to the current Explorer II.
TGV, will you be able to get your hands on the tudor pepsi gmt for review in the near future?
I can’t believe how well the 104 held up to the GMT. I just bought my first sinn 104, the one in the video To be exact. I can’t wait for it to come in.
Outstanding duel and details - interesting contrast between the price points
Hello Tristano. It’s difficult to put into words how very much I adore my 104. I love the way this stealthy beauty flies under the radar. Not sure I’d be normally comfortable with the iconic flash that is the GMT. I have other watches that I love, but they all have a hard time knocking the 104 off my wrist.
Thank you once again for this lovely respite.
Best regards,
Mark
Thank you Mark, so very understandable.
Enjoy and wear it with pride.
Best regards,
TGV
Your best review yet.. 👏 I in 1989 bought a new submariner as a manual decompression back up. Period. We have many adventures together and most probably will in the future. I don't need X factor(I won't pay for celebrity endorsement) I need a tool that works hard. My brother and I just ordered 104's as our EDC. The SINN U2 SDR EZM5 is my go to Mission Critical Instrument. Once again a brilliant, balanced and honest review. Thank you.
Hey TGV, I REALLY need you to do a duel between the sinn 104 and the seamaster 300m please!
I am looking at both VERY seriously but will only buy one tool watch; so is the omega 3 times the quality of the sinn because it's 3 times the cost? Or should I buy the sinn and start saving for a nice second hand dress watch (JLC etc) with the left over money???
Beautiful leather band on the Sinn.
Do you happen to know who makes that one? Kind regards, and keep up the impeccable work!
I have to plug the Sinn. You enlightened me as to its existence and its purity. It’s really a fantastic tool watch and the value is simply undeniable. The Sinn line is almost deserving of its own design class similar to the Bauhaus ethos. I bought a 104 and use it at work. It is sturdy, beautiful and accurate. It’s heritage admirable. Thank s to you, TGV, and Sinn!
Really interesting duel. Since I own the same Sinn 104 (on both leather and steel bracelets), I absolutely agree with everything you say here. And, for the record, if I was to wear a GMT, it would certainly be the exact same as yours. I would take advantage of wearing my 1962's 6424, which is definitely a top dresswatch ;)
It's always great to watch your videos I'm not really into pilot watches but i might find the one that really attracts me at some point. I know you already talk about Invicta and i totally agree with you can you talk or review an Sthurling Original watch i did bought one several years ago, they do the same type of exaggerated pricing can you give us some insight of them too? well it's been a pleasure to watch your videos hopefully we'll see one for "Sthurling Original" Best wishes.
Thank you Fanoel, I will certainly look into them. I have never tried one so I look forward to it.
Best regards,
TGV
I would sell that Rolex in two seconds to fund a plethora of Sinn’s! Sinn all day everyday!!!
recently got the 104. love it ❤ thx for the nice deep dive. submariner / gmt is iconic anymways - personally i did prefer a more decent black bezel(?) 😅 greets from germany
I have replaced my bezel insert on my SKX with a London - Toyko time zone insert. Can you tell me how to use it?
Great video, sir!! 104 has been ordered for myself!
I suppose the value of the GMT Master II all depends on whether you're buying or selling. Great value if you already own it and paid less than the current resale price
I assume you produce your own music for your vids??? What Brass Library are you using?? Sounds awesome!
Great competition, exciting race. I guess many will wonder that in result the Sinn is so close to the Rolex, may be some may say this can't be correct. But if you know Sinn you KNOW it was a fair race. Thank you Sir, you made my day. 👍
Thank you my friend, and reading your comment had made mine!
I could not agree more about Sinn,
Best regards,
TGV
Really good...thanks!
I have a 104 in white with the red seconds hand. It looks amazing. And on the movement, it says “ein von 200” or one of 200. Sinn often does limited editions like this. This bumps the X factor up a point and when you do that, they are dead even. 😊 It also has the days in both German and English which is really cool. It does have one Sinn technology, the captive bezel. It has set screws on it so the bezel won’t ever snag on anything and pop off. It’s also what makes the bezel so tight and positive ratcheting.
Both are beautiful time pieces. What I enjoy about your videos is you do such a great job educating us on obscure watch brands which I have never heard of. Never heard of Sinn till now and they look amazing. Will consider one for the future. Thx. TGV!
So glad to hear Stephen, you are going to have a lot of fun, an amazing brand to discover.
Enjoy the journey my friend!
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
Great intro
Just got my hands on the 104 green dial, such a beauty
Yes, I can hear you Clem Fandango! :D
Congrats on the green 104!
Best regards,
TGV
Great video!
love that rolex design so i got me a steinhart haha
what strap do you wear on the sinn? looks good.
Thank you Zaki, how are you my friend?! Always great to hear from you sir.
The strap is the Colareb one piece, one of my faves of theirs without a doubt.
Best regards,
TGV
Hey Tristano!
I am well thanks. just finished my studies in Barcelona if you remember the time we were talking about it, and got accept to a job in Dublin so i am very excited and very busy.
unfortunately my watch hobby gets less attention these days, but i guess it is only temporary!
Catching up on some of your videos i missed. cant wait for the year youll finally go to baselworld.
Zachary
I know you may have mentioned this in previous videos, however what is the name for the watch strap you have on your Sinn 104 in this video?
Hi Richard, not a problem at all.
Here you go:
shop.theurbangentry.com/collections/vintage
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
I am a fan of clean designs, following the 'less is more' philosophy. But I must say that in this case the 'Pepsi'-look is appealing as well. I would not be able to make a choice. It's a good thing I can't afford either of them right now. Great video quality as always.
I bought the 104 A as my first watch, in general, but also stepping into the higher end market after lots of research and watching your original videos. It was kind of all over the place as far as keeping time for the first 6 months. Then one day it just started being on. Now it might be 30 seconds off if i reset it at the beginning of the month to the end of the month + - 1 second a day. I too feel it has a sub look, and have just kind of been stuck on them the more I see them. May have to make that the 2nd watch, as the Sinn has held up admirably to every day commercial construction
this is one of the hardest choices I have ever had to face. Good job with this comparison. Keep up the good work and also, why don't you compare the Breitling Navitimer too the Sinn 103 once
Thank you so much, I did indeed compare them but it was the 903 vs the Navi.
Best regards,
TGV
TGV can you please do a Tudor vs Rolex duel? I think so many people write off Tudor but are extremely heavy value-for-money contenders when compared to their "older sibling" Rolex price points. Love your videos and keep up the great work!
I also want to add please make it a model with Tudor's in house movement. Regards!
Congratulations 200,000 subscriber's!!!
I’ve noticed you’ve had a Milanese on a 104 at some point. Which particular one would you recommend ?
Even if you made a thousand videos about the Sinn 104, i would watch them all. You have a great way of describing what a wonderful piece it is. I hope to buy it in the next couple of months. Since i live 400 km from Frankfurt i may even drive there and take a tour of the factory while i'm at it.
1k more to 200k subscribers! Keep up the great work TGV!
Wow, really?!? That's crazy, but crazy good.
Thank you Jonathan, onwards and upwards!
Best regards,
TGV
Jonathan Leal Actually only a little over 300 to go!
Awesome!
TGV are the prices quoted at BazelWorld a lot of hype that evaporates in a few days, or do they hold up? What I’ve heard sounds incredible (capitalize incred.)
The Sinn for me on this one.
I just purchased the Sinn 104 looking forward to its arrival anxiously.
Quick question: Sinn 104 in Matte or standard-shiny. Should I get it with the bracelet? Why not go with a 103 or something like it?
The background for the Breitling Navitimer is a diagram of a Northrop P-61 "Black Widow ". As well my favorite is the GMT Master II Pepsi. (Hoffman )
Eye like a hawk and a knowledge of aviation aircraft like no other Gentry!
Well spotted my friend, thank you.
Best regards,
TGV
The Urban Gentry , Your welcome sir.
Ive decided to purchase my first automatic watch and i am stuck between an invicta pro diver and a seiko 5 snk809. which one would u recommend?
Personally I would go with the Seiko 5, it is an historic line of watches and I adore that model.
However, the pro diver is the tougher of the two.
Go with your heart my friend, happy hunting, thank you.
Best regards,
TGV
The Sinn's countdown bezel is _very_ _very_ useful. Especially when you're cooking, but other times too. My Sinn is well within COSC parameters too, gaining only 0.9 sec a day.
Thoughts on the new NOMOS Glashütte Tangente Neomatik 41? I like NOMOS's simplistic design but the date function is diffrent, almost too diffrent. Great Vid as always and take care.
Thank you Peter, I have yet to see it in the flesh but I am open to revising it.
I like the way they did the date, shame about the size.
I certainly look forward to reviewing it one day.
Best regards,
TGV
Yet to own a Sinn. I've contemplated the quartz oil filled diver (UX EZM 2) and the classic EZM 3 (Diver version, though there is also a pilot version) so many times. That said, I own 2 GMT Master II's, a pristine mid-90s 16710 Coke and a 1997 Pepsi 16710 with faded bezel. Both watches are so classic and keepers. I have to break from the crowd and say the Rolex GMT Master II is the winner here. The quality and durability is underrated here in my opinion. Still, great video and the Sinn value proposition is hard to beat. But once you own a Rolex, hard to deny them their place. I was a Rolex hater before owning my first, an Explorer II. Cheers for the great content! There's a watch for everyman.
Excellent comment my friend, amazing collection you have and if you were to add those Sinn watches you speak of, my god, what a powerful line up. I too have contemplated them.
As for your last point, that is so often the case. Thank you so much for sharing that, you inspire me!
Best regards,
TGV
The Urban Gentry Thanks for taking the time to respond to me. Another point, with one Rolex, one can build a collection. They are like currency that is constantly growing in value. I’ve traded up several times now. The GMT Master II is truly a gentleman’s watch. A Gentleman of Action and Sophistication. And you inspire me, Sir.
Fantastic idea for a video. I have to say I love my Sinn 104, but if I could add anything, it would be drilled lugs. It's a real strap monster.
Steve Tackett I completely agree. I had it and loved it. Swapped over to the 556 b and love the drilled lugs. I do miss my 104!
Does anyone know what the rubber strap is on the 104 at 20:26 please?
Hello TGV, Pepsi looking good. The new Tudor Black Bay 1958 looks really good with reduced proportions.
The Tudor GMT on leather is killer!
I love my 104 on strap. How is the quality of Sinn's bracelets?
Hi, what thin Leather strap is it on the Sinn?
The sinn has such gorgeous elements.. i’m stuck between so many decisions!
beginning is fabulous TG all down hill from there ;-)
have you done a review of the 2018 gmt 2 yet?
Predator theme song! Get to tha video! I would choose the Sinn, but that's just me. Thanks, as always!
Cheers,
Justin
LOL, Do it now!!!! :D
Thank you Justin :D
Best regards,
TGV
Great insight TGV, done with a lot of love and effort for watches and flying.
Thank you sir, very kind of you to say.
Best regards,
TGV
Nice vid thanks TGV. The fact that the numbers on the Sinn bezel count 'down' rather than 'up' would do my head in. Don't you find that annoying?
Thank you,
I kinda mentioned it in the video but to expand on it further, after a while you get used to it. Being bi-directional and also with the firm action, I actually find it very usable.
Best regards,
TGV
Great video! Just a suggestion: rename "design" to "engineering." I think "engineering" is a better term for how you review this aspect of watches.
Excellent idea. I will certainly consider it.
Thank you Eric,
Best regards,
TGV
Just ordered my new Sinn 104 on a light brown strap. Can’t wait
Sinn 104 St Sa A (with the arabic numerals) will be my next watch. Hopefully this September. Is that the Colareb one piece on the Sinn?
Outstanding choice, you will not regret it. The strap is indeed a Colareb, one of the best they have come out with in the last few years. I have become a favorite. Thank you Sabrican.
Best regards,
TGV
If you bought 8 of the Sinn watches you would still must after that one Rolex (if you wanted one). I own the Sinn and I personally must after no more watches. It sits my personality perfectly. Understated, full of class.
Do you think you could do these numbers comparing the watch to ALL watches in a segment, then putting those totals in a spreadsheet so that we can compare many watches against each other? I feel like in your duels you use the numbers to compare the two watches to each other, but maybe you could scale them so that a Patek perpetual calendar would get a 10 in the movement category and a Seiko 4R type movement would be closer to a 3, because it's decent but not anything revolutionary, and a poor nearly unfunctional movement would get a 1. I know it's hard to say that a Seiko movement like a 6R15 derived movement is lower than a 5 just on its own, but in the space of ALL movements I think that scale would work better. Just an idea, cheers.
I'm re watching this video as I'm thinking about a Pepsi GMT again. I love my Sinn 104A it's a beautiful watch and I'm very happy with the price!
One of my favourite dramatic intros and how appropriate
Thank you Ron :D
Best regards,
TGV
Hey TGV
Plz make video on G Shock Rangeman
Add to your collections and to review plz
I loved the chess table in the openning tho if there is a ref where i can get one i be more than happy.
Really nice video i love the sinn, and talking about GMT personaly i like the Batman one more than pepsi so in here Sinn wins my vote.
Great video. The Pepsi and the Root Beer are my favorite GMTs.:)
Sinn is a fantastic value proposition but it does lack in having an additional function. The Navitimer has a Chrono and the Rolex has the GMT function.
I got to give it to Sinn for giving it 200m water resistance. That's diver territory.
No contest for me though, the Rolex GMT wins. There's just something so fantastic and iconic about it. It's a real shame that they have skyrocketed so much in price. I don't own one but I don't see it dressing up... Something about a blue and red bezel that doesn't exactly scream classy with a suit. I think it's a real enthusiast's watch.
Sinn for me in black and white and numerals and without and still have change. No-one would say "Is that a real Sinn?" Great vid good observations.
The GMT Rolex is more iconic, but the Sinn 104 is more balanced. I received a Sinn 856 this week and definitely I like this brand : so simple, so minimalist, so readable.
What is the strap reference on the 104 in the video ? Thanks a lot.
When a review of the sinn 103 chronograph?? The predator intro is the best
Ahhh the 104, love it!
I love the Sinn 903, but I was surprised that the Sinn 104 and Rolex GMT were only separated by one point. That just goes to show that Sinn are in it to win it and putting in the quality to all of their watches. Cheers
Thank you my friend. Enjoy your 903, I so nearly bought one too, which just goes to show how good they are, as you already know I have the Navi. I could not agree more, Sinn are class!
Best regards,
TGV
Could you do a review of the Sinn 1746 Klassik
Fantastic Score.👍
Holy crap you are thorough, TGV!
My goodness.... 2 heavyweights.... I like it... Love that jubilee also....
The Rolex seems like a much "safer" bet than the Sinn...what is risky about a Rolex?.......If one can afford it. I do have a soft spot for the Sinn though. I love anything that says "Made in Germany" on it.
safer is not exposing your capital to risk. With the Sinn, you are putting 1200 at risk. With the Rolex $9000 at risk.
The 104 has good resale value
Wow! What an intro!
Whats the leather strap on the Sinn?
Here you go:
shop.theurbangentry.com/collections/vintage
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV