LP Record Cleaning with Tergitol
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- Опубліковано 24 січ 2013
- An overview of my DIY record/LP cleaning method based on the Library of Congress record cleaning method using Tergitol surfactant described here: www.loc.gov/preservation/care/...
I purchased the Tergitol from TALAS: www.talasonline.com/
Haven't really compared this to commercially purchased vinyl cleaning products, but it's worked extremely well for me. Perhaps you may find aspects helpful, informative, or laughable as the case may be.
Sorry about my voice, I was just getting over the flu. :)
Its been over a year since I first viewed this (and originally commented). I've now washed probably 1500+ albums, and still believe this is a GREAT method for cleaning vinyl. So simple, economical, and effective! I can now almost do it in my sleep. And...I've never had even one label peel off. I still contend DON'T use the "Oil Soluable" Tergitol (15 S-3). It can't possibly help and could only harm your "oil-based" records. This is a water bath, so ONLY use the 15 S-9 or "Water Soluable" Tergitol at 20 drops per gallon for the wash. I also still believe a 3-dunk (1 wash, 2 rinse) technique is best, because I think the second dunk is needed to remove residue possibly picked up in the first rinse. Just like they do in ANY commercial kitchen when they wash dishes by hand.
@ 9:30, you see why I rarely buy new vinyl. Quality is all over the place. Great vid, and thank you for taking the time. Seems this is a topic where old habits die hard, and feelings get hurt for odd reasons. Science is a good thing.
Makes me angry dropping big bucks on (supposed) high quality pressings and receiving an assault on my ear drums and stylus. Then add insult to injury, I have to clean them up, too.
Thanks for showing that you do need to clean new records! Most of mine are like yours in that they are dusty and dirty brand new out of those cheap paper inner sleeves. I've used the sink method with dish detergent and the label saver, the yellow Spin Clean, and now I have the Nitty Gritty vacuum. The vacuum, using various cleaners and a rinse seems to work the best for me so far. Some of the best cleaners I have used is the one that uses enzymes as one of the steps. This Tergitol solution looks interesting.
When you rinse the second, third and subsequent records in the second pan of distilled water isn’t there chemicals from prior rinses in that pan? It would seem that you would need to replace the water in the second pan every so often. Thanks for the helpful video.
To handle the vinyl like this is one thing, but to handle paper like that is another.
Papersleeves and labels are part of the Art of design. I am amazed that people can't see that a record and the image of artists are part of the whole love for the music. Its a kind of indifference that I cannot understand. Never understood this argument of "I only care for the music'.
Thank you for this video, very helpful and informative.
I would never dunk a record in this solution especially with older records.
Hi I'm checking out different ways to clean my records. I like your cleaning method. It all looks great to me. Thank you, peace
It's endless...
I added a second rinse bin and I use a vinyl stack as a label protector. best my records have ever sounded.
Thanks for the video, very informative. What size / brand pans are those? Thanks.
Love your technique. Can't wait to try. I'm accumulating supplies and hope to get started soon. A couple of questions...The Library of Congress site recommends Tergitol 15-S-7. You're using what the Talasonline site sells, both Tergitol 15-S-3 (oil soluble) and 15-S-9 (water soluble). Any idea what the difference is between the 15-S-7 and what you're using? Also, why did you decide to use both types of Tergitol (both oil and water soluble) when you're strictly washing in a water-based solution?
I can't remember exactly, but I believe it was what the Canadian Library of Congress (or their equivalent) recommended, and it's what Talas sells. I'm not a chemist, so I don't really know what the differences are between the 3, the 7, and the 9. Here's a link to something I found just now on the Canadian side, but I don't think this is what I had been reading before, I just don't remember exactly: cool.conservation-us.org/byauth/st-laurent/care.html
Dow lists the many different variants of Tergitol, so not sure if there's more you can clean from them, but that's here: www.dow.com/surfactants/products/second.htm
There is a very important point you missed. TERGITOL HAS A 24 MONTH SHELF LIFE. Its not a life time supply, you have to discard it after 2 years. Look on the MSDS Data Safely Sheet and you'll see it printed there. What happens after 24 months, I don't know, but its not a stable chemical and probably degrades into something you shouldn't use on records. It is, however the best record cleaning product there is, there's no alcohol in it, in fact, adding alcohol destroy it. Very good video. The other thing is that Office Depot no longer has those folder racks, unfortunately. Some dish washing racks will work but most of them don't.
I haven't looked at this video I posted in many years, and fast forward almost a decade, this is an interesting comment. For the record (womp womp lol), I am still using the very same bottles of Tergitol from when I recorded this video, and all I can report back is that I still clean my records the exact same way, and they sound incredible still. The only records I do not clean is some of the QRP-UHQR records (purchased new) which are incredibly quiet right out of their original sleeve. I've upgraded my stereo over the years as well, currently on Musical Fidelity separates and Dynaudio Confidence C1s, records played back with an AT 33PTG/II MC cartridge. So while it is possible something may be degrading, I don't hear any degradation in the results of my cleaning. The only thing I do from time to time is replace the felt pad on my brush, though to be honest it's been probably a few years since I've done that.
I'm glad that this has helped some find ways to clean their records better, whatever your methods. Especially for used records, a really proper clean is such an important step to re-capturing the incredible sound that vinyl offers, without all the crud and crackle and noise. Some records of course are too far gone, but I am still regularly struck at how almost garbage-looking dusty-gray garage sale records with a proper clean can yield a pristine like-new shiny piece of vinyl, and when you drop the needle on that and the music comes to life again, the reward of that bit of effort and discipline of properly cleaning those dirty old records is so amazing.
Happy listening to all! :)
thanks for sharing your cleaning method! what do you think of using some isopropanol also?
How about using a dish rack/drainer to dry your records?
I've now washed about 100 albums using this method. I only use the water-soluable Tergitol 15 S-9, (20 drops per gallon) and have had fantastic results so far. Plus, I've seen no evidence this affects the labels at all. My biggest difference from this video is, I decided to use a 3-dunk wash method...one for the Tergitol and then two separate distilled water washes. From start to finish with records back into their jackets, it takes me right at an hour to wash 24 records (I have two racks that hold 12 apiece). I change out the wash/rinse solutions after 12 records, and setup a fan to gently blow on the drying racks. I'd HIGHLY recommend trying this record cleaning method. Simple, low-tech, but extremely effective.
That's great to hear! I also had originally planned doing a double-rinse, but just started with the one rinse because it was just convenient space-wise, and I couldn't see or hear any evidence of residue so I never bothered to add another tray and do two rinses but if you have the room I figure it's probably a good idea just out of principle. I also change the rinse solution about every 10-12 records too just to be cautious. I don't bother changing the wash solution, but I do try to start with new or the cleanest-looking records when doing a batch, and end on the dirtiest so I'm not washing new records in dirtier solution.
Chris, When you say you change the rinse solution about every 10-12 records, is there anything other than distilled water in your rinse pan that would make it a solution?
Following the basic directions of this video, I have duplicated this at home using deep dish pizza pans from the local sucks-mart. It does make an amazing difference, even on new records. I would be very hesitant to try this on early 45's, but of all the three dozen or so modern LP's and 45's I tried this on, you can't tell that the label was ever wet. Probably not something to try if your stupid/mindless/ect, but I've have very good luck with this method.
Recently purchased new 180g and 45 rpm pressings. All have been polluted with debris from the process. Anxious to try this out and correct this atrocity. Hard to imagine there isn't a thorough cleansing that occurs after press. Will let you know how it turns out.
Good point about the pressing process. I've read shrapnel is often left in the grooves after many pressings
very nice method... looks to be quite effective. the only issue I have is the label effect. other than that, I love the idea of submerging the LP's
It almost always goes away after they fully dry.
Is this stuff the same as Ilford Ilfoto?
Hello, how about the Tergitol NP-10 ?
Helpful video, except that you seem to misconstrue what water- or oil-soluble means. You definitely DON'T want to use the S-15-3, as this is dissolvable in oil. In other words, it won't mix with distilled water. You only need the water-soluble S-15-9, and it is important to use this in the correct dilution - don't guess at the mix! The rinse step is critical, of course. Also, you are correct; most labels don't suffer much from getting wet. I have encountered an orange (or red) label that bled dye, and that is an issue - if you don't clean this dye out of the grooves, you will have a bit of a problem.
I agree, I have encountered 2 records, one bright red, another orange, which did leach some color. I did a lot of follow-up rinsing on an orange one recently, but it came out sounding just wonderful, and couldn't notice any difference on the label after. But 2 out of probably 1,000 records over the last decade, pretty good odds!
ChrisWiggles does having a third bucket of *a lot* of tap water, or the sink, to wash off the tergitol, sound like a cheaper option, so you don't have to replace the distilled water as often?
The reason to not use tap water is to avoid mineral deposits on the record. Distilled water is cheap.
Lol hi I am checking out cleaning them. Thank you again
The big problem with air-drying records like you do is that dust is still drawn to the records like a magnet. I don't know about you, but I don't like dust to accumulate on the stylus when playing them. Even a little dust can affect the sound. Another concern is the time is takes for your process. Myself, using my VPI RCM, I will have finished fully cleaning a record and have it playing in less time, and it won't have a spec of dust on it.
Through your demonstration, you have shown why you should never get a record label wet. You wouldn't want to clean an old 78 by your method either. Not only would it damage the record but it would also dissolve the label.
Unless the water is 100% pure wouldn't the dried droplets leave contaminants?
@@nanchanger Technically, no, but what was used to apply the distilled water? Then, as I stated, the wetness with draw dust from the air and that becomes the contaminants. Plus, the fluid glues the dust particles to the record.
Do yall have any thoughts on a third (middle) pan of tap water for economy's sake: Tergitol > Tap water bath > Distilled water bath
then you can change the tap water every wash and go longer without changing the distilled
🤣
I'm in the process of making a vacuum style cleaner (new to all this...bought a 800 vinyl collection) so I'm doing research...anyways...
I like how you've approached looks good and functional.
The only suggestion/concern I have is that I've always thought that distilled water mustn't come into contact with any metal material. As far as i know it changes the structure and is no longer distilled...I could be wrong, but since you asked at the start of your vid I thought I'd through my 2cents in. :)
Please people do not do this to your records if you have any brains whatsoever I am a professional DJ they're working with vinyl for over 40 years and this way of plenty of record is insane I'm sorry that you wasted all your time explaining how to clean your records I do not suggest this method whatsoever maybe you need to call the people who make the records and tell them how you doing if you tell him that you'll probably laugh at you and say you out of your mind anyway one day I will post a video and teach all you people out there how you do it properly but someone who's working over 40 years on vinyl records from 1950s and 60s and 70s and Beyond also 78 should never be submerged and any type of solution that contains vinegar not 78 I know he tried to put his video the best of he cut but submerging the label in the liquid is not a good idea at all that's why they call it paper not even the record that has been sitting 50 years of storage should be treated this way LPS usually 180 grams if you look for some of the higher ones there hunt 200 grams anyway all I say is you're better off and doing it completely different I will not explain here because you won't understand that message thank you for posting the video I do not recommend this video to no one one person point of view whatever floats your boat but I have over 40 plus years over 40 years let's put it this way I've been having a record since I can remember and I am 58 years old now and I have never used this type of Technology to work on my records professional DJ Studio 54 New York City there are different methods of cleaning records this is not recommended
You mentioned 40 years four times. We got it. Without explaining how to do it "correctly", your post was pretty much USELESS.
@@greenharvestproductions6743 post a link...
You could try something like AdBlue used in diesel engines you buy in 5L tubs fairly cheap. A high purity urea solution diluted in demonized water. If you really got bad records use mineral spirits / white spirit. Best brushes are painters pads or makeup brushes like camel hair. Make sure the wood glue is water soluble PVA not not waterproof? Both of them are water-based, But Waterproof is not the same makeup it can cause issues with the vinyl release agent? The acetate in the waterproof glue can attack the release agent with long exposure make sure you wash it afterwards when using the glue. You can use a bit of isopropyl in that that solution you made 10%. You might want to use a ozone air humidifier next to your records when drying? In your rinse bath put a teaspoon of hair conditioner prevent static
Demonized water? Is that what Ozzie mixes with his scotch?
How many drops of Tergitol would you use for 1 Litre of distilled water?
4 to 5 drops
Mike Masztal That sounds about right to me. I do 10 drops of each Tergitol into 1 gallon of distilled water. With one rinse (as shown) in distilled water, I achieve exceptionally quiet results, and with no visible water marks or evidence of lingering chemical solution on the record, and utter silence (if the record is pressed well) when listening (Technics 1200, AT33PTG/II MC cartridge). I started out with higher concentrations using spray bottles before I bought the pans, and had difficulty with rinsing the solution off completely as it left visible water droplet marks, and the shift to lower concentrations and the pan rinse solved that problem completely.
Nice cleaning process, but do you really want to risk ruining even one label? Maybe on a valuable vinyl 45 or LP. Use a Groovmaster Label Saver!
I've considered it, but I've washed hundreds and hundreds of records and never had one ruined. So it's not worth the trouble for me. If I had something particularly rare or valuable, I might consider it, but just seems unnecessary to me.
Why in the hell are you submerging your PAPER labels under the solution?
chedderz66 Why in the hell are you asking questions that are answered in the video.
Jesse. It's time to clean.
Yak, yak, yak, yadda, yadda, yadda. Jesus, 20 minutes to describe dunking an LP into Tergitol, then distilled water? I mean, I appreciate it that you went to the trouble of sharing this information with the world but really, there's only about a minute's worth of valuable information there. (Too many notes, just cut out a few and it'll be perfect!)
"Which notes did you have in mind, sire?" ~ Wolfie
he had the B flat & the F# major7 in mind LoL!!!
Why don’t you use a label saver man. It has a handle and the label won’t get wet. Also you can handle the record as you clean both sides.
Please tell us all when you decide to sell these so I don't get excited with lifted labels.
REALLY love and appreciate this video. But dear God....WHY did it have to come from Dow Chemical? The same folks who have given me a death sentence from Agent Orange. My luck.
You use this Tegretol (carbamazepine) is an anticonvulsant. It works by decreasing nerve impulses that cause seizures and pain. Tegretol is used to treat certain types of seizures (partial, tonic-clonic, mixed). Tegretol is also used to treat nerve pain such as trigeminal neuralgia and glossopharyngeal neuralgia. ROFL no wait spelling phew that was close.
I finally bought the Tergitol and all I can say is it's just another cleaner surfactant that happens to be used by the library of Congress. Does it clean better than any other cleaner? no! I make my own using Dawn dish washing soap and a bit of 90% alcohol pretty much doing the same process as you. With the difference that I can submerge my records without the worry of messing up my labels. All I can say is that Tergitol does not do a better job in no way on the contrary Dawn does a much better job. It was used when oil was accidental spilled in the ocean to wash all the birds that were affected because of the grease cutting ability. The Tergitol in no way improved the cleaning process. Dawn soap cost like $4 and running alcohol like one dollar and some distilled water like $2? Like the cleaning that you are doing cleaning well taken care of records get a records that is beat up and maybe do a sound test before and after and you'll see that Tergitol will fail. I like the process you do with the containers but dip and just a quick scrub like you do ain't going to clean any record that really needs a good cleaning. Tergitol just cost more. Cleaning is all about ph balance alkaline and acid anything over the ph scale over 7 being neutral is alkaline anything under is acid. Tergitol is about 8 on the ph scale and all it is a fancy name for soap and not a great solution to clean you can do better with folex.
the only way to clean records is with a proper wetvac system. You can build your own for much less than the retail models.
there is no way to get clean records without vacuuming the fluids. Rubbing with a rag puts more fluff int eh grooves than you think you are cleaning out. Must vac it all up with the liquid to be clean. Sadly LP's are a lot of work and proper cleaning is a necessity.
+vladlashing They are not much work. No vac is needed.
+John S you are a clown.
Whatever, go waste your money and be an idiot, enjoy. I have been enjoying vinyl for almost 60 years, so be stupid and waste money and pretend you know vinyl, no problem.
+John S Can you tell me why a vacuum would NOT be beneficial?? Thanks.
@@Darrin.Crawford probably because a 9 dollar hair blow drier works better on cold air setting?
actual record cleaning doesn't start for about 9 1/2 minutes...
Sorry, Chris, I'm not a fan of your method. Wetting the labels isn't a good idea. Your new reissue may not be worth much now, but some records, especially audiophile records, will appreciate over time. I also have a concern about scratching the records in the bottom of the pan or just dropping them. I've scratched a couple of Pink Floyd reissues just taking them on and off the turntable let alone doing what you're doing when they're wet. The Wet/Vac method is safer and vacuums everything off rather than leaving any possible residue as your wash water gets more Tergitol in it. I know that the Wet/Vac systems are expensive, but they work very well. The VPI 16.5 is a good unit, so I'd suggest that anyone who's serious about this gets a Wet/Vac system if at all possible or look at the Spin Clean and other more budget models. I'd also suggest using more pure water (Ultra Pure). RO/DI water is best and can be purchased at Whole Foods inexpensively out of the machine; just be sure that you use a very clean bottle to collect it. Rinse the records off more with UP Water if you use a surfactant/detergent like Turgitol. You want to avoid as much residue as possible.
You could always add some rubber or felt fabric in the bottom of the pans, to avoid getting the records scratched. White felt would probably be best to avoid colors possibly releasing.
If you scratch records just putting them on the turntable you need to switch to MP3s! No method of cleaning will be safe for you.
Older vinal albums sounds better than newer ones I've found that I don't tend to buy new alubms I tend to borrow my parents the ones that I grew up listing to
man that person in the background vacuuming is really annoying especially when you think someones up in the middle of the night ripping a vac... WOW... weird
Wow that stuff is toxic: Nonylphenol Ethoxylat
...
+John S Here is how to clean vinyl records, and how to play them. You spray any old clean rag you have, cotton T shirt or even an old dust rag with Industrial Endust, the red can, no longer sold in stores because the EPA says it's toxic. Buy a can at Amazon. It contains no WAX. It evaporates seconds after you use it and cleans vinyl records grooves thoroughly. It even eliminates skips and static.
Then, you put the vinyl record on a turntable and play it. That's it. No cleaning machines needed, no advice from UA-cam, no complications. There is NOTHING difficult or expensive involved in becoming a vinyl fan and collector. You don't use wood glue on vinyl, you don't pay idiotic prices for vinyl records. You don't need an expensive turntable, but please don't use a Crosley.
Go to EBay or Goodwill to find vinyl. They are NOT collectors items, millions are in existence. If an EBay seller calls it "rare" or "vintage", ignore that seller. Vinyl records are not rare, millions of them are still out there. Neither are good turntables, they never stopped making turntables. One seller on EBay is offering lots of vinyl records for 99 cents each, buy 10 and get free shipping, and they show actual photos of them, in excellent condition. That's just one seller, others are doing the same.
Will these vinyl records sound better than a CD does? No, they will not. Let's be honest, a CD will not have the snap, crackle and pop issues that vinyl has. What it will have is an anolog warmth that digital CD lacks, and what digital downloads lack.
In laymens terms, digital is compressed and can not ever match the wide range of analog. What you download on your computer is digital and clamps the peak high notes in a limited range in order to comply with the internet's inability to fully replicate original recordings. No matter how much you paid for your device, it is digital, and can not reproduce the full range of the studio recordings.
I read in Car and Driver about the Dodge Challenger's 19 speaker system, a $2300 option in a car costing $65,000 to start with. Similar systems available on other new vehicles. Car and Driver said it was outstanding, but seemed to be missing something. Motor Trend said, "It is digital, it sounds great, but not as good as analog".
+ John Shello, this is really real? I'm interested because I buy vinyl dirty years of dirt and dust, could you explain a little how to use it ?? thanks and greetings from peru.
label ruiner
I know, you can just see them all catching on fire in the video. The horror. The horror.
seriously?
🤣
If your records aren't that valuable or are, Dawn, 99% Isopropyl alcohol and distilled water in a spray bottle works better...and it's cheaper.
inthe7thhouse I didn't discuss this in the video, but I started out using solution and distilled water in spray bottles. I do think you can just use some soap, alcohol, but I highly recommend pans over spray bottles. I had a tough time getting a good rinse with spray bottles, and it's a PITA to use the bottles and takes much longer because you only have two hands. It works, but it's a lot easier if you can use a pan to dunk rather than a spray.
Do not do this this is not the proper way cleaning records I have been working for records for over 45 years this is not a good idea thank you for posting the video you should do some more research before you post a video of the magnitude people can destroy their vinyl you should put a disclaimer on your video
So you're thanking him for a video with bad advice?
There's so much crazy bad information on record cleaning out there now and I see alot of that repeated here. Alcohol is not good to use on vinyl, the old Discwasher had alcohol in it but less than 1% in solution. I have tried alot of methods and have decided that Dawn and anything with alcohol in it is not good. Where you hear the damage is in the very high frequencies where the grooves are super tiny, very easy to damage and using alcohol is just asking for trouble. Dawn has some alcohol in it. I have gone from using the Spin Wash machine, which works very well, to the Okki Nokki, but vacuuming sucks the wand down hard on your record and may be grinding the dirt into your grooves as its sucking the water out. You never want to use tap water, either, when the water drives it leaves whatever minerals are in your water, in the grooves where your needle will weld them into the walls. The ultimate cleaning method is ultrasonic, in distilled water with a little bit of Tergitol, enough to implement the sonic waves in the water so you can see the pattern in the surface water for strongest cleaning. All methods must include a final distilled water rinse, there is no cleaner that doesn't leave residue behind. If you have a cheap record player, ultimate cleaning methods probably don't matter because low quality consumer record players are damaging your records anyway as you play them and they don't have catridges or a sound system that will hear the damage done. To clean your records you don't want anything rubbing hard on your record, no scrubbing with pressure, you want the most minimalist type of cleaner in high dilution that will easily be rinsed off in distilled water. Now that I've abandoned Dawn myself, I'm not hearing treble damage like I did, where anyone singing an "S" word that ends up sounding like someone scratching sandpaper. Tergitol is used by Canadian government archivists and the LIbrary of Congress, thats how good it is, is leaves pristine grooves cleaned and silent, all these other things like glass cleaner and steaming are just gimmicks, overkill, and just don't work all that great.
WOOD GLUE !!!!! Up until I heard that I thought you might have had some sense. And . . . NO-NO-NO-to paper and water bad combo. And . . . velvet isn't soft enough. Giant Camel hair makeup brush + diluted dish soap+hold at angle under tap water for a rinse, DON'T NEED ANYTHING DISTILLED . Less washing time . . . . . more listening time.