1. 1:49 Remember, Go is a two-person game. You take turns, building value. Respect that value. 2. 2:47 You don't get everything on the board. You must give your opponent something. 3. 4:07 Don't play the attach-and-extend joseki. 9:55 It's a safe, but lazy way to play Go. 4. 12:05 Black should play the kakari on the widest open side for the greatest potential development. 17:26 If your opponent approaches the "wrong" corner, choose a joseki that gives you sente so you can play an approach move in the "right" corner first. 18:05 Playing the knight's move from your star point stone, away from the knight's move attack, kakari, is a sente joseki. 5. 18:55 What about this move on the side? 22:20 Making a small base on the side is not good if your opponent gets a corner enclosure AND double wing extension. 26:10 In conclusion, you don't want to split (on the wide side) when there is a 3-4 stone on the board (on that side). 26:55 repeat. You don't want to split (play in the center of the open side) when there are 3-4 stones in the corners. 27:20 Approach the 3-4 stone. 27:28 The splitting move doesn't block a corner extension. The splitting move is one of the worst moves. 6. 29:20 Kyu players invade too early. And 34:56, 37:55. 32:10 When there is an open board. 32:15 The opponent will be able to solidify (his borders elsewhere). You don't want to do that. 33:45 In the mini-Chinese opening, you DO want to play the splitting move on the third line on the open side, NOT the approach move to the 3-4 stone, as you are jumping into a pincer. 7. 39:25 Don't be willing to become surrounded in the corner. And 41:15. Nor surrounded on the side 43:30. Expect a white pincer on black's 3rd line kakari stone. The counter pincer. 8. When black makes a corner shimari, White should approach the far black stone facing that shimari. White should not merely split the side and make a small base on the 3rd line, as this allows black to make double wing extensions with good potential development. Hence, splitting is a bad idea. 9. Having black invade a small area too early is a bad idea. Instead, make a corner approach in an open area. 10. When black plays kakari to a white star point corner stone, and white kicks and pincers. White should not be willing to be surrounded in the corner. Merely living in the corner is not a good outcome for white as that white pincer stone on the outside becomes isolated and faces black's huge wall of influence. 11. Likewise, black, with a two space extension on the 3rd line, being surrounded on the side and living low is not a good outcome, as white gains much center influence. Remember why wei qi is called the surrounding game. Don't allow your groups to be surrounded. 12. With a white karari on the 3rd line to the black star point corner stone, followed by a black one space low pincer, having white jump out to the center and running out is not so good. Invade the 3-3 point in the corner or play a double kakari from the 4th line, then invade the corner and live. Then use the aji of that firsi kakari stone to invade and reduce the other side.
My top 3 & 10 of things that (kyu) players should start/stop doing Top3 1. Stop thinking that the game is about "surrounded area". It is about territory allright, but that includes the stones on the board, otherwise we wouldn't be subtracting the captured ones. So the game is really about alive stones and the potential to put them down. 2. Manage time: use your time to think about moves and on the other hand don't throw away time for no good reason 3. Don't resign out of disappointment with something that just happened. Resigning stretches from pushing the resign button or putting down two stones, to playing mindlessly or angrily, just wasting your time on a wasted game. Instead, take a breath and make a judgment of the board. There might still be lots of chances. I've seen people resign who were ahead! Next: 1. read a few moves deep and for a few alternatives (actively resist automatic play) 2. make your stones strong first then expand into new area (aka urgent before big) 3. study life & death (you know, tsumego, tsumego, tsumego) 4. study the endgame 5. don't overly study the opening: have a general sense of direction 6. pay extra attention to liberties as the board is filling up (stop losing games due to atari blindness) 7. put yourself into a play & learn rhythm (stop avoiding playing due to fear of losing) All of these things are way more important than unlearning a particular joseki or some minor mistake in direction in the opening. Those are not measures that will generate positive feedback through winning.
Kyus don't really understand influence at all and how to use it and the whole concept of trading, at least on fox. They often make my shapes stronger and thicker with gaining anything themselves. They also seem to think that the purpose of Go is to rescue all your stones, rather than just getting an advantage.
I'm 6k on tygem and in all of my games I'm fully under the impression that the first 10 moves of the game don't matter at all, as long as you don't pass or play on the first line. By the way: 31:50 black cuts and me as white, being a kyu, dies horribly, which somewhat proves my point. And the thing at 39:27 totally works against me. Possibilities include kick-> hane under, kick-> pincer and kick-> back off and then invade 3-space right away. Maybe 20 games with those in at least one corner and usually my thickness outside gets attacked eventually (which not always means I lose, but still I find the result of taking the corner pretty good and don't play it myself only because "it's supposed to be bad"). My point is, this is dealing with bad opening habits and I'm under the impression people play those "bad habit" moves fully aware that they're not optimal, usually just wanting to induce a fight as quickly as possible. You can't win against someone who is better than you at fighting by just playing a perfect opening.
+ANSIcode Sounds like you're having trouble understanding why something is bad then. That you're taking it being bad on faith. Check out my punishing moves lecture. Could be great help to you! bit.ly/1OPAowG
I, too, have a real problems with "fighters" who just mashes me at the openings totally. I can't do the right opening. i lose 100+ points somehow. Because of the Rule 1.It's two persons play. They don't let me. So I have no choice but to make that odd moves. May be it's the whole point of making your position on the board:) Joseki doesn't work at all somehow.
I'm a bit sceptical about rule 2 . I always let the opponent to have a lot, but they don't stop where I expect them to. So they take it all in the end. For me, rule 2 would sound like "do your best and don't let the opponent ake what should not be taken"
Revisiting this topic as 2k on Tygem, people almost stopped playing the kick joseki against me (which doesn't mean I'm any better at handling it than when I was 6k) but my impression on how important the opening is hasn't changed one bit. By the way: My 3 points of advice for everyone who isn't stronger than me but is having trouble punishing "outrageous" play by their opponent are: 1. Respect your opponent and their playing style. If you think their opening makes them look 5 stones weaker than you, you'll get to see how they make up for it in terms of skill later in the game. Watch out! 2. Most unusual moves are punishment in themselves. Just play normal, your opponent is the one who needs to figure out how to make them work. On the other hand there is an amazing amount of moves that "aren't joseki" but only slightly worse than the joseki moves and maybe even better in the right circumstances. Respect your opponent's innovations and make your own, it's what makes the game interesting. 3. If it really comes down to it, take no crap. Requires reading ability and fighting ability, solving life and death problems and some work overall but that's go. It's not a philosophy but a board game and not a deep sprititual journey but learning patterns and reading, as proven by Alpha-Go.
Yes, we kyu-level players need lots of help. We make pitiful mistakes with regularity. One eye in the corner, running out on the second line, failing to climb up to the third line and dieing there at the end of the fuseki !!!.
I would say F6 is a "bad move" because there are bigger points on the board. You cannot afford to use moves starting fights (contact moves) while your opponent is establishing his initial stones in the opening.
Problem is: when you talk about "kyus" there are a bunch of them, actually ranging from 30 to 1 on KGS. You don't make the same moves and don't think the same way whether you are DDK or SDK.
1. 1:49 Remember, Go is a two-person game. You take turns, building value. Respect that value.
2. 2:47 You don't get everything on the board. You must give your opponent something.
3. 4:07 Don't play the attach-and-extend joseki. 9:55 It's a safe, but lazy way to play Go.
4. 12:05 Black should play the kakari on the widest open side for the greatest potential development.
17:26 If your opponent approaches the "wrong" corner, choose a joseki that gives you sente so you can play an approach move in the "right" corner first.
18:05 Playing the knight's move from your star point stone, away from the knight's move attack, kakari, is a sente joseki.
5. 18:55 What about this move on the side?
22:20 Making a small base on the side is not good if your opponent gets a corner enclosure AND double wing extension.
26:10 In conclusion, you don't want to split (on the wide side) when there is a 3-4 stone on the board (on that side).
26:55 repeat. You don't want to split (play in the center of the open side) when there are 3-4 stones in the corners.
27:20 Approach the 3-4 stone.
27:28 The splitting move doesn't block a corner extension. The splitting move is one of the worst moves.
6. 29:20 Kyu players invade too early. And 34:56, 37:55.
32:10 When there is an open board.
32:15 The opponent will be able to solidify (his borders elsewhere). You don't want to do that.
33:45 In the mini-Chinese opening, you DO want to play the splitting move on the third line on the open side, NOT the approach move to the 3-4 stone, as you are jumping into a pincer.
7. 39:25 Don't be willing to become surrounded in the corner. And 41:15. Nor surrounded on the side 43:30.
Expect a white pincer on black's 3rd line kakari stone. The counter pincer.
8. When black makes a corner shimari, White should approach the far black stone facing that shimari.
White should not merely split the side and make a small base on the 3rd line, as this allows black to make double wing extensions with good potential development. Hence, splitting is a bad idea.
9. Having black invade a small area too early is a bad idea. Instead, make a corner approach in an open area.
10. When black plays kakari to a white star point corner stone, and white kicks and pincers. White should not be willing to be surrounded in the corner. Merely living in the corner is not a good outcome for white as that white pincer stone on the outside becomes isolated and faces black's huge wall of influence.
11. Likewise, black, with a two space extension on the 3rd line, being surrounded on the side and living low is not a good outcome, as white gains much center influence.
Remember why wei qi is called the surrounding game. Don't allow your groups to be surrounded.
12. With a white karari on the 3rd line to the black star point corner stone, followed by a black one space low pincer, having white jump out to the center and running out is not so good. Invade the 3-3 point in the corner or play a double kakari from the 4th line, then invade the corner and live. Then use the aji of that firsi kakari stone to invade and reduce the other side.
+Larry H , I like your summary. My English hearing ability not so good. This summary very useful for me. Thank you
could you also add time stamps, please?
it's interesting watching videos from before alphago. interesting thing about this one is that your advice for kyus hasn't changed at all.
Yeah. Post alphago era has given professionals more tools to use to make the game more complicated, but that's not always in your best interest.
My top 3 & 10 of things that (kyu) players should start/stop doing
Top3
1. Stop thinking that the game is about "surrounded area". It is about territory allright, but that includes the stones on the board, otherwise we wouldn't be subtracting the captured ones. So the game is really about alive stones and the potential to put them down.
2. Manage time: use your time to think about moves and on the other hand don't throw away time for no good reason
3. Don't resign out of disappointment with something that just happened. Resigning stretches from pushing the resign button or putting down two stones, to playing mindlessly or angrily, just wasting your time on a wasted game. Instead, take a breath and make a judgment of the board. There might still be lots of chances. I've seen people resign who were ahead!
Next:
1. read a few moves deep and for a few alternatives (actively resist automatic play)
2. make your stones strong first then expand into new area (aka urgent before big)
3. study life & death (you know, tsumego, tsumego, tsumego)
4. study the endgame
5. don't overly study the opening: have a general sense of direction
6. pay extra attention to liberties as the board is filling up (stop losing games due to atari blindness)
7. put yourself into a play & learn rhythm (stop avoiding playing due to fear of losing)
All of these things are way more important than unlearning a particular joseki or some minor mistake in direction in the opening. Those are not measures that will generate positive feedback through winning.
Kyus don't really understand influence at all and how to use it and the whole concept of trading, at least on fox. They often make my shapes stronger and thicker with gaining anything themselves. They also seem to think that the purpose of Go is to rescue all your stones, rather than just getting an advantage.
I'm 6k on tygem and in all of my games I'm fully under the impression that the first 10 moves of the game don't matter at all, as long as you don't pass or play on the first line. By the way: 31:50 black cuts and me as white, being a kyu, dies horribly, which somewhat proves my point. And the thing at 39:27 totally works against me. Possibilities include kick-> hane under, kick-> pincer and kick-> back off and then invade 3-space right away. Maybe 20 games with those in at least one corner and usually my thickness outside gets attacked eventually (which not always means I lose, but still I find the result of taking the corner pretty good and don't play it myself only because "it's supposed to be bad").
My point is, this is dealing with bad opening habits and I'm under the impression people play those "bad habit" moves fully aware that they're not optimal, usually just wanting to induce a fight as quickly as possible. You can't win against someone who is better than you at fighting by just playing a perfect opening.
+ANSIcode play more then, get stronger.
+ANSIcode Sounds like you're having trouble understanding why something is bad then. That you're taking it being bad on faith. Check out my punishing moves lecture. Could be great help to you! bit.ly/1OPAowG
I, too, have a real problems with "fighters" who just mashes me at the openings totally. I can't do the right opening. i lose 100+ points somehow.
Because of the Rule 1.It's two persons play.
They don't let me.
So I have no choice but to make that odd moves. May be it's the whole point of making your position on the board:)
Joseki doesn't work at all somehow.
I'm a bit sceptical about rule 2 . I always let the opponent to have a lot, but they don't stop where I expect them to. So they take it all in the end.
For me, rule 2 would sound like "do your best and don't let the opponent ake what should not be taken"
Revisiting this topic as 2k on Tygem, people almost stopped playing the kick joseki against me (which doesn't mean I'm any better at handling it than when I was 6k) but my impression on how important the opening is hasn't changed one bit.
By the way: My 3 points of advice for everyone who isn't stronger than me but is having trouble punishing "outrageous" play by their opponent are:
1. Respect your opponent and their playing style. If you think their opening makes them look 5 stones weaker than you, you'll get to see how they make up for it in terms of skill later in the game. Watch out!
2. Most unusual moves are punishment in themselves. Just play normal, your opponent is the one who needs to figure out how to make them work. On the other hand there is an amazing amount of moves that "aren't joseki" but only slightly worse than the joseki moves and maybe even better in the right circumstances. Respect your opponent's innovations and make your own, it's what makes the game interesting.
3. If it really comes down to it, take no crap. Requires reading ability and fighting ability, solving life and death problems and some work overall but that's go. It's not a philosophy but a board game and not a deep sprititual journey but learning patterns and reading, as proven by Alpha-Go.
yo dwyrin when do you normally stream go on twitch?
When and where is the stream?
Did you have a lot more to go over? Any chance there will be a part 2?
+redskytempest I do what people request. If you want a part 2 I shall come up with a part 2!
+redskytempest, Read the book Breakthrough to Shodan.
+dwyrin I would like part 2 as well as part 3. :)
Yes, we kyu-level players need lots of help. We make pitiful mistakes with regularity.
One eye in the corner, running out on the second line, failing to climb up to the third line and dieing there at the end of the fuseki !!!.
I would say F6 is a "bad move" because there are bigger points on the board. You cannot afford to use moves starting fights (contact moves) while your opponent is establishing his initial stones in the opening.
This is not for "any kyu", but rather for better than 20k ?
I have an account on KGS. Am I/are we able to follow you/watch you at all on there?
i notice that you have some trouble recreating kyu moves cuz you think like a dan, why dont you download a kyu game and review it next time? haha
Problem is: when you talk about "kyus" there are a bunch of them, actually ranging from 30 to 1 on KGS. You don't make the same moves and don't think the same way whether you are DDK or SDK.
Nice icon :P
12:30 maybe you hate Kobayashi?