Associating my experience - Living via mimicry is why the narcissist has different behaviours according to situations. Blending people from different situations is stressful for the narcissist. I've noticed he puts himself on the outskirts of social situations if not avoiding it all together. Also, when confronted with a group of strangers who want to talk, he controls the situation so that he is doing all the talking instead of interacting. He cannot/refuses interacting with 2 sources of "knowing" intimate supply at the same time on a causal level - it would be like trying to live in 2 separate fantasies at the same time? These videos really help the WHY of what happened. Why the narcissist is a void.
I'm wondering where I stand in relation to this particular issue. Been watching Vaknin for a couple years or so and I'm struggling to form a conclusion to this day. I behave very differently with different people, and different people in my life know different things about me but I usually succeed in containing each piece of information in a secretive bond with me and that other person - I do get really stressed when blending could potentially occur as you noted, @palma, and I'm hypervigilant in such situations. My objective here is to simply have each other person like me and I appeal desperately to what is both a) considered socially acceptable, and b) what I surmise the particular other person would find enjoyable to find in me. I do this because I seek the highest possible level of intimacy in everyone I meet, platonic or otherwise. All the while I mix in (at least what I think is) my authentic character, sense of humour, etc, but only to the extent that this doesn't violate a) and b). However, I don't dominate conversations, especially not with strangers (who I'm generally secretly afraid of,) and I definitely don't try to appear excellent or grandiose, nor broken and dark and knowledgable like Sam says the covert narcissist does. I'm actually relatively quiet, not detached-observer as the narcissist does in what Sam once detailed as a particular narcissistic "posture", but simply speaking when I'm expected to, saying something which I hope will be met with positive reception. I sincerely can't tell if this is seeking narcissistic supply - I don't think I want this feedback to distinguish me in any amazing way, I just want to be included and liked by the people I'm involved with. I've recently began asking a few friends (individually) whether or not they actually like me, and they're always bewildered that I'd wonder this, and that of course they do, and that there's nothing wrong with me. I just fear strongly that people hate me, that they can see how horrible I am, and this makes me want to alter my personality to be amicable. If I understand correctly, the grandiose narcissist is unconscious of his false self, but the covert narcissist is conscious of the false bearing down on him and smothering him (I can't recall the Vaknin video in which I encountered this concept, I hope I'm remembering correctly, apologies if not). The covert narcissist is thus paranoid, anticipates backlash from persecutory objects, even warns other people about the future harm he will cause, makes himself innocuous and appear kind. I'm confused because I seem to want to be kind, not really innocuous though - I sincerely make every effort not to cause harm and genuinely succeed, but I'm afraid that I will/won't be liked, and hence I check that I haven't upset the other person and they like me. Hence I don't warn in advance like that - there's really nothing to warn against, if I see things rationally rather than emotionally. But I am terrified of some kind of "discovery" as the covert narcissist is, whether it's that I told one person a secret about myself and another found it out through them, whether it's that I slept with somebody and both she and I don't want my ex to know (real examples) - it could be more or less anything, though. I just don't want people to know what I haven't decided I'd be comfortable with them knowing about me, and I'm highly puppet-masterish with the kinds of self-information I emanate and what others would think and do with it. I really don't like people talking about me behind my back 😭. In any event I can tell the difference between acting and not "knowing" that I'm acting, as Vaknin says in this video - I know I'm acting, minimising my existence (bpd, secondary psychopathy?)... So it feels like I kind of half-share traits with covert npd and kind of don't, and therefore can't confirm any particular underlying structure... I think this stuff dates back to my early peer relationships; I'm diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder/HFA (my only diagnosis besides depression) and I was the weird kid, usually bullied lonely for the course of elementary and high school, with greater successes in the latter half of high school. I joined college last year and I've made friends with a large group of people which has lasted so far, though. I've made every effort to try and connect with people meaningfully and really worked on my social skills in order to achieve that feat. I think I have an insecure-avoidant attachment style brought on by the early peer relationships just described (and also probably due to my mother being a highly invasive and protective parental figure, though I get on with her much better these days actually), but I still can't tell exactly what's wrong with me. Probably some kind of bad object, too (externalised?). Covert narcissism? Borderline people like to ask other "special people" or intimate partners, friends, to define/check them too, don't they? Is it just the similarities between autism and covert narcissism that I'm detecting in myself, is there no structural basis for thinking NPD? Any feedback to such questions and my thinking in the above paragraphs from anybody would be highly appreciated, if I've made errors about these cluster b disorders for example, literally anything, or please ask me questions if you wish. I'm sorry for the life story, I've been wanting to leave a comment asking for help on one of Vaknin's videos for a while now and something in your comment made me brave enough to reply (although I don't think you'll have been expecting this kind of reply lol, I'm sorry if it's an imposition). Maybe all this is simply hyperverbalisation, but I'm not "collapsing" like I sometimes do, at the moment, I dunno... all this stuff goes round and round in my head on a more or less constant basis and tortures me; fear, important gaps in my knowledge....
@ according to Vaknin a narcissist doesn’t sincerely reflect/have insight about social anxieties … only that they can control ppl and situations to obtain supply and emotional regulation. That’s their lifeline. That’s all they live for.
@@palma9835 Are you sure? I've watched one of his videos called "Narcissist: socially anxious, schizoid" You probably have a point about the reflection part, though. I just always double-guess myself as to whether I really mean it. Sincerely I try my best, I just always feel like something in me is outdoing my ability (sincere as it might be) to penetrate into my own mind
This initial " high moralistic standards and principles " is a very tricky thing..I just wanted to believe that such a virtuous person exists in our dimension. However, he was not in my dimension :)
Hello to everyone, I`m curious about something related to „ splitting“ It is the maternal figure that introduces the child to the world and teaches him what is good and what is bad. What is a two-year-old's idea of good and evil, how do we know about it, on what mechanism in the baby`s mind is possible to make a difference between good and bad, if not by the leading of the maternal figure How the child has developed and uses the concepts of good and bad and „splitting“ for saving and protecting in the case of „dead mother“?
So can one say that cold therapy can restore mental health in a narcissist but cannot restore positive emotions. So if they don't naturally experience joy and then don't even have their substitute for joy coming from supply and elations how do they function. Do they make major lifestyle choices or just gain awereness, modify behaviours but don't invest their energy elsewhere.
I enjoyed the intriguing questions and your enlightening answers Professor Vaknin. Thank you both for sharing.
Associating my experience - Living via mimicry is why the narcissist has different behaviours according to situations. Blending people from different situations is stressful for the narcissist. I've noticed he puts himself on the outskirts of social situations if not avoiding it all together. Also, when confronted with a group of strangers who want to talk, he controls the situation so that he is doing all the talking instead of interacting. He cannot/refuses interacting with 2 sources of "knowing" intimate supply at the same time on a causal level - it would be like trying to live in 2 separate fantasies at the same time? These videos really help the WHY of what happened. Why the narcissist is a void.
I'm wondering where I stand in relation to this particular issue. Been watching Vaknin for a couple years or so and I'm struggling to form a conclusion to this day.
I behave very differently with different people, and different people in my life know different things about me but I usually succeed in containing each piece of information in a secretive bond with me and that other person - I do get really stressed when blending could potentially occur as you noted, @palma, and I'm hypervigilant in such situations. My objective here is to simply have each other person like me and I appeal desperately to what is both a) considered socially acceptable, and b) what I surmise the particular other person would find enjoyable to find in me. I do this because I seek the highest possible level of intimacy in everyone I meet, platonic or otherwise.
All the while I mix in (at least what I think is) my authentic character, sense of humour, etc, but only to the extent that this doesn't violate a) and b).
However, I don't dominate conversations, especially not with strangers (who I'm generally secretly afraid of,) and I definitely don't try to appear excellent or grandiose, nor broken and dark and knowledgable like Sam says the covert narcissist does. I'm actually relatively quiet, not detached-observer as the narcissist does in what Sam once detailed as a particular narcissistic "posture", but simply speaking when I'm expected to, saying something which I hope will be met with positive reception. I sincerely can't tell if this is seeking narcissistic supply - I don't think I want this feedback to distinguish me in any amazing way, I just want to be included and liked by the people I'm involved with.
I've recently began asking a few friends (individually) whether or not they actually like me, and they're always bewildered that I'd wonder this, and that of course they do, and that there's nothing wrong with me. I just fear strongly that people hate me, that they can see how horrible I am, and this makes me want to alter my personality to be amicable.
If I understand correctly, the grandiose narcissist is unconscious of his false self, but the covert narcissist is conscious of the false bearing down on him and smothering him (I can't recall the Vaknin video in which I encountered this concept, I hope I'm remembering correctly, apologies if not). The covert narcissist is thus paranoid, anticipates backlash from persecutory objects, even warns other people about the future harm he will cause, makes himself innocuous and appear kind. I'm confused because I seem to want to be kind, not really innocuous though - I sincerely make every effort not to cause harm and genuinely succeed, but I'm afraid that I will/won't be liked, and hence I check that I haven't upset the other person and they like me. Hence I don't warn in advance like that - there's really nothing to warn against, if I see things rationally rather than emotionally. But I am terrified of some kind of "discovery" as the covert narcissist is, whether it's that I told one person a secret about myself and another found it out through them, whether it's that I slept with somebody and both she and I don't want my ex to know (real examples) - it could be more or less anything, though. I just don't want people to know what I haven't decided I'd be comfortable with them knowing about me, and I'm highly puppet-masterish with the kinds of self-information I emanate and what others would think and do with it. I really don't like people talking about me behind my back 😭. In any event I can tell the difference between acting and not "knowing" that I'm acting, as Vaknin says in this video - I know I'm acting, minimising my existence (bpd, secondary psychopathy?)...
So it feels like I kind of half-share traits with covert npd and kind of don't, and therefore can't confirm any particular underlying structure...
I think this stuff dates back to my early peer relationships; I'm diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder/HFA (my only diagnosis besides depression) and I was the weird kid, usually bullied lonely for the course of elementary and high school, with greater successes in the latter half of high school. I joined college last year and I've made friends with a large group of people which has lasted so far, though. I've made every effort to try and connect with people meaningfully and really worked on my social skills in order to achieve that feat.
I think I have an insecure-avoidant attachment style brought on by the early peer relationships just described (and also probably due to my mother being a highly invasive and protective parental figure, though I get on with her much better these days actually), but I still can't tell exactly what's wrong with me. Probably some kind of bad object, too (externalised?). Covert narcissism? Borderline people like to ask other "special people" or intimate partners, friends, to define/check them too, don't they? Is it just the similarities between autism and covert narcissism that I'm detecting in myself, is there no structural basis for thinking NPD?
Any feedback to such questions and my thinking in the above paragraphs from anybody would be highly appreciated, if I've made errors about these cluster b disorders for example, literally anything, or please ask me questions if you wish. I'm sorry for the life story, I've been wanting to leave a comment asking for help on one of Vaknin's videos for a while now and something in your comment made me brave enough to reply (although I don't think you'll have been expecting this kind of reply lol, I'm sorry if it's an imposition). Maybe all this is simply hyperverbalisation, but I'm not "collapsing" like I sometimes do, at the moment, I dunno... all this stuff goes round and round in my head on a more or less constant basis and tortures me; fear, important gaps in my knowledge....
@ according to Vaknin a narcissist doesn’t sincerely reflect/have insight about social anxieties … only that they can control ppl and situations to obtain supply and emotional regulation. That’s their lifeline. That’s all they live for.
@@palma9835 Are you sure? I've watched one of his videos called "Narcissist: socially anxious, schizoid"
You probably have a point about the reflection part, though. I just always double-guess myself as to whether I really mean it. Sincerely I try my best, I just always feel like something in me is outdoing my ability (sincere as it might be) to penetrate into my own mind
@ I’m being general…
@@palma9835 I see, thank you for your reply
This initial " high moralistic standards and principles " is a very tricky thing..I just wanted to believe that such a virtuous person exists in our dimension. However, he was not in my dimension :)
Boker tov, professor. What condition does Mr. Kolakowski claim to be diagnosed with? Couldn’t quite make out the acronym. Thank you 🙏
He says ADD I think so assume attention deficit disorder ..
You mentioned infantile skin to skin contact. It seems as if my ex narc craved skin to skin contact and that’s how he would go to sleep at night.
Very few get it doubt German guy knows. Rare
Hello to everyone,
I`m curious about something related to „ splitting“
It is the maternal figure that introduces the child to the world and teaches him what is good and what is bad.
What is a two-year-old's idea of good and evil, how do we know about it, on what mechanism in the baby`s mind is possible to make a difference between good and bad, if not by the leading of the maternal figure
How the child has developed and uses the concepts of good and bad and „splitting“ for saving and protecting in the case of „dead mother“?
Search the From Child to Narcissist playlist.
@samvaknin Thank you
So can one say that cold therapy can restore mental health in a narcissist but cannot restore positive emotions. So if they don't naturally experience joy and then don't even have their substitute for joy coming from supply and elations how do they function. Do they make major lifestyle choices or just gain awereness, modify behaviours but don't invest their energy elsewhere.
I did not say that cold therapy restores "mental health". Time to watch the video.
You just explained Trump 100%.
Nonsense
Not true..I luv my prez❤❤❤❤