The lifepo4 probably recovered in the cold discharge test from internal heating of the cells due to the high resistance (when cold) under load. You can determine if you damaged it or not by doing a normal test cycle at 20C/70F. If the capacity has not gone down, you didn’t damage it. Generally speaking, LiFePO4 can be discharged cold at very low C rates but charging when very cold will plate lithium and destroy it.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals Just takes one to destroy the battery if the cells are cold enough and you try to charge it normally. Generally speaking... probably not many cycles. Its one of the few things that can really mess up a LiFePO4 battery. Lithium plating and other cold issues are a function of the speed of the chemical reaction inside the cells, which means that you can actually operate the battery below freezing at very, very low C rates (at least up to a point). This is why, for example, discharging still works into colder temperatures without damage (up to a point). But if you try to push or pull too much current when the battery is really cold, the cells will take damage. Typically lithium plating which permanently sequesters some of the lithium, increases internal resistance, and reduces usable capacity. -Matt
@@AlexHibbertOriginalsLiFePO4 will first drop in voltage, then slowly rise and then drop to empty. This is due to temperature rise. Even from 18C, if you discharge with 1C or more it'll heat up to 40C at which its efficiency increases a lot so its internal resistance drops. LiFePO4 batteries for charging below 0C do exist, one LiFePO4 battery isn't the other one. Some can charge down to -20C, most stop at 0C. Some can easily deliver a full 30C discharge, others struggle with 1C.
@@michael-sz3ffat very low C rates. Like 0.01C. But still it's possible to do lithium plating, papers are mixed about this. So be careful, and respect the datasheets from manufacturers. There are cells capable of charging down to -20C though, but they are specially made for this.
Would it be possible to open up the Sodium battery when you've finished testing? It would be interesting to see if they have just shoved some 18650's in a case and forgotten the BMS. Regarding testing, check out the EBC-A10H, usually cheapest from China, it can do all the testing you did automatically and will log it to file and do a nice graph - should save you some time! It can charge/discharge/rest/cycle test and just be configured and left to do the work for you. When you're not testing with it, it's a capable charger for pretty much everything too.
About 4 years ago Bluetti announced they wanted to bring out a sodium power station in the future. Some "expert" in the comments was, of course, saying sodium is "10 years away, if it ever happens at all". And here we are, sodium batteries on Amazon!
I've got some knowledge of different battery types. The variables are immense. Usage, energy density, temperature, load cycles, wild cells (had one today)... For the freaks among us, very entertaining. For the major rest of the YT public, boring a.f. Cherish the algorithm gods. (Trying to help by commenting ;-)
Based on the AA test from way back, I purchased a whole set of AA and AAA rechargeable batteries fir my self and very recently for a friend off grid in the desert and very happy with the results so far.
For discharge testing, I've been using an ET5406A+ benchtop programmable load purchased off Aliex, though it's available on the jungle site too. It supports CV, CC and CP as well as start/stop voltages. It's also controllable by USB. Under US$100.
Er, no. Sure, voltage will jump up some amount immediately after removing the load, but that voltage doesn’t really tell you anything. The measurement here was to wait a fixed amount of time after removing the load and record the ‘relaxation’ voltage at that point in time. It’s much more informative that way.
I think he's pointing out that no further Wh have been drawn during the relaxation phase, so there should be no progress to the right. A fair point and a limitation of the way I laid out the data set.
Try Lithium Titanate Oxide next to them! Much more expensive I guess and probably not available as a battery pack, but cells and BMS are available. They should withstand extreme temperatures, negative and positive. They may reach 60C in discharging so they can deliver more current because they just can withstand the temperature.
@AlexHibbertOriginals didn't catch that, but still... the 4 is in the number because that's how big it is. (I have a group 7/9 with 3ah in my car, with 75F to run the starter without the high current demands on the battery, because that is what kills small batteries)
Yes I'd say they are a good replacement. They barely cycle as the voltage drop under load is limited, so their cycle life will be epic. They are healthy at normal 14.5V alternator voltages, and don't need preheating.
Sodium ion batteries will be my choice for the home (canada). There is one car sold in China that uses this chemistry, Chery i believe, worth a look at results ?
I think with any early adopter you'd expect to lose value on any EV, and given time developers seem focused on improving the Na+ energy density with coatings. But sure, it's better than the current system where EVs need lots of battery heating before they can charge the cells at low temps.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals You probably know EV car in the cold, but just in the case to give you me experience. I live in Québec, Canada (Where many times per year temperature reach -30C). Why I write an answer is even at those -30c, my car (Ioniq 5) charge at full speed from the start of charging at 40amps (Level 2 charging). Since like 95% of the time as others, I most always charge at home at level 2. This heating battery usage is more for level 3 where there is trottling charging in effect depending of the température of those cell. In my case, to be able to charge at full speed (220kw) at level 3. ALL THE CELLS, must reach +20C by BMS if I remember correctly. My personnal opinion, I prefer for now to have Li-ion or Lifepo4 in my car (To get longevity) since It's BMS that trottle charging depending of the temperature, we will see if my car battery will survive 20 years even if I use it too as power source V2L like tonight I will have event with Hilo with Hydro Québec to reduce power usage because it very cold. In counter part I'm building too a electrical snow dog that will use my tractor Lifepo4 battery. There I see the advantage for less frequent usage with sodium Battery. Still waiting more proof as you do that those battery are very better in cold will keeping those claimed 2000 cycles. Thank you for your video!
The sodium cars in China so far are supposed to be little city runaround things, with a short range. But the technology is pretty new. Once upon a time LFP wouldn't have been used in a car because it was too big and heavy, now it's standard.
I was actually trying to find one in 4Ah, but decided in the end to not make custom Li-ion and LTO batteries for this test from cells. LTO is cool, except for the low voltage per cell, low density, and cost. Also, that long term they'll still need lithium to be mined,
Jup, you will probably not find them assembled into a neat format of your choice. AliExpress does offer everything needed to make one. They are mostly used in special cases like remote sensors or extreme temperature applications. They do need lithium, but in return they last a really long time. And they are also extremely safe. Never had the opportunity to 'play' with one, but I do find them quite fascinating 😊.
Perhaps sodium batteries will need to come with a BSM on the battery and a voltage regulator.... which would then present more issues with SOC calculations.
I guess either you rely on devices to have a wide acceptance of input voltages, or yes do the regulation in the battery. You could measure the voltage before the regulator, and have a method of exporting that information to a battery screen/indicator or a device.
Curentlly lifepo4 voltages work perfectlly with 12volt systems we have been useing for last 40 or 50 odd years compatible with all 12v appliances we have been useing whilst out tenting caravaning motor homes vanlife higher voltages more efficient but we work with all the appliences etc that are based on 12v systems and lifepo4 batteries are 13.4 fully charged any differance is onlly 1 amp or so and chargeing to 14.6 is to equalise cells.Newer technology will eventually be better but lifepo4 is a legend safety performance reasonable cost lightweight longlife low power loss from chareging dischargeing ITS UNBELEIVEABLE how long we used lead acid efb agm for !!!😂😂😂😂😂
"Lithium is rubbish?" Lithium is powering 50 million EVs around the world for drivers who are overwhelmingly satisfied and will never go back to ICE. Lithium powers devices for almost every person on the planet and was the reason for the cell phone completely taking over voice and data communications. Lithium is powering EVs for decades of worry free driving and lasting longer than the most reliable ICEs ever made. Lithium has powered my 2014 Leaf through ten and a half Canadian winters, with 80%capacity remaining and years of driving still to come. Don't let anyone tell you that current battery technology is not good enough or that you should wait for some better technology that is right around the corner. Batteries are getting better every day, but what is available now is more than good enough and definitely not 'rubbish.'
I'm surprised it took nearly a day for someone to take the bait. But, I was only half-joking. Lithium is the norm, and so is credited with lots of achievements, but that's not because it's optimal. Any tech that's dominant in a market is only so until the moment it's not. We look back disdainfully on many old tech systems. Lithium has the mining/geopolitics issues. It has an annoying voltage discharge profile. It's sensitive to being cycled frequently, hard or deep when viewed in absolute terms, and not vs lead acid. It requires insanely wasteful electric preheating to charge it in moderate cold conditions, otherwise it breaks. It's been around for decades and none of the different flavours overcome the key issues. Sodium is new, and there's already work underway to deal with the low energy density issue. Might sodium be like minidiscs before the mp3 of solid state? Who knows. But lithium is not king. And I told no one to wait for anything. The pros and cons of being an early adopter are other matters to debate. And I'm not sure about beating ICEs.... there are plenty of engines running now for more than half a century with only basic maintenance; some covering close to a million miles. Let's see your Leaf in 2055...
Rrgardless of composition, every battery possesses a Common limitation. Not one creates or generates electricity. They all require obtaining the energy they store from another source. The manufacture of batteries can involve processes just as ecological devasting, perhaps mo so, as fossil fuels.
Unfortunately your statement compares the 𝗺𝗮𝗻𝘂𝗳𝗮𝗰𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲 of batteries to the 𝘂𝘀𝗲 of fossil fuels. This is an apples-to-oranges comparison. While battery production involves environmentally impactful processes such as mining and material refinement, these impacts must be compared to the full lifecycle of fossil fuels, including exploration, drilling, refining, and combustion. Batteries, though not without their challenges, are useable repeatedly and can be filled with energy from renewable sources, enabling a cleaner energy future. Fossil fuels, in stark contrast, are a finite resource that release toxic pollutants during use and cannot be replenished, making them far, far less sustainable in the long term.
sodium ion, the solution without a problem. we already have LTO.... yawn lifepo4 can heat itself and do good enough in the cold. lifepo4 is probably going to be the main standard for grid storage and EV's going forward, so the other technologies are unlikely to be very important unless youre in a very harsh climate. theyre always going to cost a lot extra because of this. ive been building my own lfp packs for awhile now and dont use bms' any more. just inductive active balance boards. theyre very cheap. sodium ion should adopt this. the OG LiFeYPO4 cells from watson didnt even have any balancing lol
I'm not sure it's that simple. Lithium has the geopolitical mining issue. Plus, annoying flat discharge profiles. LTO is cool - I'm getting some for a follow-up test. Solid states actually for sale all appear to be hoaxes so far. Self-heating LiFePO4 is v energy wasteful - but fine if connected to plentiful solar/wind/AC for day use only. I don't think sodium would cost more than most lithium types once production is scaled. Sodium is easy to source, and the anodes/cathodes are simpler too. Point taken on BMSs. You're entrusting a lot to the person choosing, calibrating and installing them.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals ya my car battery for the last year has been a 7lb 32ah 4s lifepo4 pack that i built. car is a chevy volt. no bms. heats itself thru a 15w heating pad and relay to stay 4c above 0c. uses like 20 wh per day in freezing temp to self warm coz its insulated and inside the car. cost about 50$ to build. car is solar powered so not that big of deal, but battery could last about 20 days in freezing temperature, thats more than I would trust a 3 year old lead acid.
Don't discount "lazy battery"... sitting will cause a temporary reduction in capacity for both lead and lithium, I have no doubt sodium will do the same thing. A half dozen "warm up" cycles will probably give different results.
I noticed this when I got a 12 year old iPad out from storage. The battery life was horrible for a while but then it gradually got better and now it's pretty good.
@@bigfootandbananaman4746 It usually restores without issue when there's a single cell. I go easy waking multicell up that's been sitting because the cells will all be in slightly different stances. Definitely make sure solid balancing is in play each cycle (if not full time) and load them light during the exercise cycles until you see them coming around.
Nice video. but to be honest i didn't get what was result of the test..so a bit pointless. diffent capacity, different chemistry and not clear graph because of testing method. If you want to show proper graphs you have to use proper diagnostics/equipment. ..so again nice one but pointless it is saying nothing.
Conclusions: Sodiums can charge cold Sodiums discharge to v low voltages and recover without drama Sodiums perform well under higher loads and cold, but not quite as well as LFP Sodiums experience low voltage drop when under load
@@AlexHibbertOriginals ah yes, then, when you want to use them you are limited to 50% of their capacity because of existing inverters and chargers. so they have to be at least half the price of lifepo4 before they come even pricewise.
The limitations on regulators and chargers are incredibly easy to achieve. Chargers just need to be reprogrammed up to 17V. And plenty of larger regulators accept down to 8V, beneath which there's not much capacity.
Please desactivate the automatic audio translation! this is intolerable. stay in native laguage voice more real and pleasant voice instead of this hellish synthetic voice. thank's a lot
I think you can just switch it off in your video controls in the bottom right corner? UA-cam have introduced this feature recently without announcing it to us creators!
Appreciate the detailed breakdown! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How can I transfer them to Binance?
I'm surprised it took nearly a day for someone to take the bait. But, I was only half-joking. Lithium is the norm, and so is credited with lots of achievements, but that's not because it's optimal. Any tech that's dominant in a market is only so until the moment it's not. We look back disdainfully on many old tech systems. Lithium has the mining/geopolitics issues. It has an annoying voltage discharge profile. It's sensitive to being cycled frequently, hard or deep when viewed in absolute terms, and not vs lead acid. It requires insanely wasteful electric heating to charge it in moderate cold conditions, otherwise it breaks. It's been around for decades and none of the different flavours overcome the key issues. Sodium is new, and there's already work underway to deal with the low energy density issue. Might sodium be like minidiscs before the mp3 of solid state? Who knows. But lithium is not king.
The lifepo4 probably recovered in the cold discharge test from internal heating of the cells due to the high resistance (when cold) under load. You can determine if you damaged it or not by doing a normal test cycle at 20C/70F. If the capacity has not gone down, you didn’t damage it. Generally speaking, LiFePO4 can be discharged cold at very low C rates but charging when very cold will plate lithium and destroy it.
Yes it's continued cycling fine in the warm. I'm not sure how many abusive cold charges would be needed to start noticeable damage.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals Just takes one to destroy the battery if the cells are cold enough and you try to charge it normally. Generally speaking... probably not many cycles. Its one of the few things that can really mess up a LiFePO4 battery.
Lithium plating and other cold issues are a function of the speed of the chemical reaction inside the cells, which means that you can actually operate the battery below freezing at very, very low C rates (at least up to a point). This is why, for example, discharging still works into colder temperatures without damage (up to a point).
But if you try to push or pull too much current when the battery is really cold, the cells will take damage. Typically lithium plating which permanently sequesters some of the lithium, increases internal resistance, and reduces usable capacity.
-Matt
You actuall can charge lifepo4 at low charge rates by the way with nno damage just not at high C rates.
@@AlexHibbertOriginalsLiFePO4 will first drop in voltage, then slowly rise and then drop to empty. This is due to temperature rise. Even from 18C, if you discharge with 1C or more it'll heat up to 40C at which its efficiency increases a lot so its internal resistance drops.
LiFePO4 batteries for charging below 0C do exist, one LiFePO4 battery isn't the other one. Some can charge down to -20C, most stop at 0C. Some can easily deliver a full 30C discharge, others struggle with 1C.
@@michael-sz3ffat very low C rates. Like 0.01C. But still it's possible to do lithium plating, papers are mixed about this. So be careful, and respect the datasheets from manufacturers. There are cells capable of charging down to -20C though, but they are specially made for this.
Would it be possible to open up the Sodium battery when you've finished testing? It would be interesting to see if they have just shoved some 18650's in a case and forgotten the BMS.
Regarding testing, check out the EBC-A10H, usually cheapest from China, it can do all the testing you did automatically and will log it to file and do a nice graph - should save you some time!
It can charge/discharge/rest/cycle test and just be configured and left to do the work for you.
When you're not testing with it, it's a capable charger for pretty much everything too.
You've looked ahead to part 2.....
Thanks for the tip on the tester btw.
About 4 years ago Bluetti announced they wanted to bring out a sodium power station in the future. Some "expert" in the comments was, of course, saying sodium is "10 years away, if it ever happens at all". And here we are, sodium batteries on Amazon!
Wonderfully detailed. Have been waiting for this test and it didn't disappoint.
The time put in is appreciated! Thanks. Bernard, this one took some serious editing...
Loving these storage-shed-batcave videos Alex - keep up the work, can’t wait to see what you build!!
Cheers
I really need one just stay inside my subscriptions page so the sake of being able to stay on top of series like yours
I've got some knowledge of different battery types. The variables are immense. Usage, energy density, temperature, load cycles, wild cells (had one today)...
For the freaks among us, very entertaining. For the major rest of the YT public, boring a.f.
Cherish the algorithm gods.
(Trying to help by commenting ;-)
Nothing surprises me regarding what entertains my very special cohort of UA-cam viewers. Brilliant bunch. Mostly.
Based on the AA test from way back, I purchased a whole set of AA and AAA rechargeable batteries fir my self and very recently for a friend off grid in the desert and very happy with the results so far.
Eneloops I presume?
For discharge testing, I've been using an ET5406A+ benchtop programmable load purchased off Aliex, though it's available on the jungle site too. It supports CV, CC and CP as well as start/stop voltages. It's also controllable by USB. Under US$100.
Thanks. I'm looking at a test rig upgrade as we speak.
This video was like watching someone welding, you know you should turn away but it is oddly captivating 😅
Imagine what it was like to edit....
@AlexHibbertOriginals 🤣
Shouldnt the line between under load and rested voltages be vertical?
Er, no. Sure, voltage will jump up some amount immediately after removing the load, but that voltage doesn’t really tell you anything. The measurement here was to wait a fixed amount of time after removing the load and record the ‘relaxation’ voltage at that point in time. It’s much more informative that way.
I think he's pointing out that no further Wh have been drawn during the relaxation phase, so there should be no progress to the right. A fair point and a limitation of the way I laid out the data set.
My LFP has some way to go before replacement but I've been following the sodium battery, so thank you.
see you in 20 years
Try Lithium Titanate Oxide next to them! Much more expensive I guess and probably not available as a battery pack, but cells and BMS are available. They should withstand extreme temperatures, negative and positive. They may reach 60C in discharging so they can deliver more current because they just can withstand the temperature.
Twisted elastic bands in a protective and temperature shielded pvc pipe wound by hand🤔
@10:00
that 4 in the name was the group size, not an ah rating...
Yes indeed, although still shown as 4Ah in the previous graphic.
@AlexHibbertOriginals didn't catch that, but still...
the 4 is in the number because that's how big it is.
(I have a group 7/9 with 3ah in my car, with 75F to run the starter without the high current demands on the battery, because that is what kills small batteries)
ua-cam.com/video/Axnv9N_aG0M/v-deo.htmlsi=D6lNny1SoesPp0nf
Yes - found that out rather late!
Isnt there a iron phosphate battery ? Tesla is looking at a new battery as well ?
mate, he was testing it. lifepo4 is iron phosphate!
It's an easy mistake to make. The labels and acronyms can be super confusing with batteries. Took me a while to work out that NMC was 'common Li-ion'.
As sodium was promised as better replacement for lead starter batteries, i would call this a clear promises hold👍
Yes I'd say they are a good replacement. They barely cycle as the voltage drop under load is limited, so their cycle life will be epic. They are healthy at normal 14.5V alternator voltages, and don't need preheating.
Looks like we may have a new cold weather champion... if they can dial in a BMS that works... better?
Sodium ion batteries will be my choice for the home (canada). There is one car sold in China that uses this chemistry, Chery i believe, worth a look at results ?
I think with any early adopter you'd expect to lose value on any EV, and given time developers seem focused on improving the Na+ energy density with coatings. But sure, it's better than the current system where EVs need lots of battery heating before they can charge the cells at low temps.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals You probably know EV car in the cold, but just in the case to give you me experience. I live in Québec, Canada (Where many times per year temperature reach -30C). Why I write an answer is even at those -30c, my car (Ioniq 5) charge at full speed from the start of charging at 40amps (Level 2 charging). Since like 95% of the time as others, I most always charge at home at level 2. This heating battery usage is more for level 3 where there is trottling charging in effect depending of the température of those cell. In my case, to be able to charge at full speed (220kw) at level 3. ALL THE CELLS, must reach +20C by BMS if I remember correctly. My personnal opinion, I prefer for now to have Li-ion or Lifepo4 in my car (To get longevity) since It's BMS that trottle charging depending of the temperature, we will see if my car battery will survive 20 years even if I use it too as power source V2L like tonight I will have event with Hilo with Hydro Québec to reduce power usage because it very cold. In counter part I'm building too a electrical snow dog that will use my tractor Lifepo4 battery. There I see the advantage for less frequent usage with sodium Battery. Still waiting more proof as you do that those battery are very better in cold will keeping those claimed 2000 cycles. Thank you for your video!
good luck!
Very welcome
The sodium cars in China so far are supposed to be little city runaround things, with a short range. But the technology is pretty new. Once upon a time LFP wouldn't have been used in a car because it was too big and heavy, now it's standard.
You really need to test LTO batteries for cold charging/discharging performance
I have some on order for part 2, although you'll know they have tons of compromises too.
Have you looked into LTO batteries? Not the greatest capacity, but excellent in extreme cold and they will last you a lifetime.
I was actually trying to find one in 4Ah, but decided in the end to not make custom Li-ion and LTO batteries for this test from cells. LTO is cool, except for the low voltage per cell, low density, and cost. Also, that long term they'll still need lithium to be mined,
Jup, you will probably not find them assembled into a neat format of your choice. AliExpress does offer everything needed to make one. They are mostly used in special cases like remote sensors or extreme temperature applications. They do need lithium, but in return they last a really long time. And they are also extremely safe. Never had the opportunity to 'play' with one, but I do find them quite fascinating 😊.
Ummmm. They start failing at 6OC/140F degrees. Pretty much well below of a closed vehicle in the Arizona sun.
A deep cycle lead acid would probable give diferent results. Vehicle batteries are not designed for this.
yes, not designed for this. does not necessarily mean a different result. something to do with longevity.
It's tricky to get a deep cycle 4Ah. Granted, I could have used 100Ah for all of them. If more of you subscribed!
Perhaps sodium batteries will need to come with a BSM on the battery and a voltage regulator.... which would then present more issues with SOC calculations.
I guess either you rely on devices to have a wide acceptance of input voltages, or yes do the regulation in the battery. You could measure the voltage before the regulator, and have a method of exporting that information to a battery screen/indicator or a device.
A regulator built into the battery would drain the battery eventually when there is no load connected.
Curentlly lifepo4 voltages work perfectlly with 12volt systems we have been useing for last 40 or 50 odd years compatible with all 12v appliances we have been useing whilst out tenting caravaning motor homes vanlife higher voltages more efficient but we work with all the appliences etc that are based on 12v systems and lifepo4 batteries are 13.4 fully charged any differance is onlly 1 amp or so and chargeing to 14.6 is to equalise cells.Newer technology will eventually be better but lifepo4 is a legend safety performance reasonable cost lightweight longlife low power loss from chareging dischargeing ITS UNBELEIVEABLE how long we used lead acid efb agm for !!!😂😂😂😂😂
"Lithium is rubbish?"
Lithium is powering 50 million EVs around the world for drivers who are overwhelmingly satisfied and will never go back to ICE.
Lithium powers devices for almost every person on the planet and was the reason for the cell phone completely taking over voice and data communications.
Lithium is powering EVs for decades of worry free driving and lasting longer than the most reliable ICEs ever made.
Lithium has powered my 2014 Leaf through ten and a half Canadian winters, with 80%capacity remaining and years of driving still to come.
Don't let anyone tell you that current battery technology is not good enough or that you should wait for some better technology that is right around the corner.
Batteries are getting better every day, but what is available now is more than good enough and definitely not 'rubbish.'
I'm surprised it took nearly a day for someone to take the bait.
But, I was only half-joking.
Lithium is the norm, and so is credited with lots of achievements, but that's not because it's optimal. Any tech that's dominant in a market is only so until the moment it's not. We look back disdainfully on many old tech systems.
Lithium has the mining/geopolitics issues. It has an annoying voltage discharge profile. It's sensitive to being cycled frequently, hard or deep when viewed in absolute terms, and not vs lead acid. It requires insanely wasteful electric preheating to charge it in moderate cold conditions, otherwise it breaks. It's been around for decades and none of the different flavours overcome the key issues.
Sodium is new, and there's already work underway to deal with the low energy density issue.
Might sodium be like minidiscs before the mp3 of solid state? Who knows.
But lithium is not king. And I told no one to wait for anything. The pros and cons of being an early adopter are other matters to debate.
And I'm not sure about beating ICEs.... there are plenty of engines running now for more than half a century with only basic maintenance; some covering close to a million miles. Let's see your Leaf in 2055...
Rrgardless of composition, every battery possesses a Common limitation. Not one creates or generates electricity. They all require obtaining the energy they store from another source. The manufacture of batteries can involve processes just as ecological devasting, perhaps mo so, as fossil fuels.
yes, any battery cannot be used as a rocket engine and every battery is worse than nuclear war!
Unfortunately your statement compares the 𝗺𝗮𝗻𝘂𝗳𝗮𝗰𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲 of batteries to the 𝘂𝘀𝗲 of fossil fuels. This is an apples-to-oranges comparison. While battery production involves environmentally impactful processes such as mining and material refinement, these impacts must be compared to the full lifecycle of fossil fuels, including exploration, drilling, refining, and combustion. Batteries, though not without their challenges, are useable repeatedly and can be filled with energy from renewable sources, enabling a cleaner energy future. Fossil fuels, in stark contrast, are a finite resource that release toxic pollutants during use and cannot be replenished, making them far, far less sustainable in the long term.
@@Hejavra
yes, i agree with you there.
the fossil fuel is absolutely gone leaving CO2 in its trail. irreversibly.
sodium ion, the solution without a problem. we already have LTO.... yawn lifepo4 can heat itself and do good enough in the cold. lifepo4 is probably going to be the main standard for grid storage and EV's going forward, so the other technologies are unlikely to be very important unless youre in a very harsh climate. theyre always going to cost a lot extra because of this.
ive been building my own lfp packs for awhile now and dont use bms' any more. just inductive active balance boards. theyre very cheap. sodium ion should adopt this. the OG LiFeYPO4 cells from watson didnt even have any balancing lol
I'm not sure it's that simple.
Lithium has the geopolitical mining issue. Plus, annoying flat discharge profiles.
LTO is cool - I'm getting some for a follow-up test. Solid states actually for sale all appear to be hoaxes so far.
Self-heating LiFePO4 is v energy wasteful - but fine if connected to plentiful solar/wind/AC for day use only.
I don't think sodium would cost more than most lithium types once production is scaled. Sodium is easy to source, and the anodes/cathodes are simpler too.
Point taken on BMSs. You're entrusting a lot to the person choosing, calibrating and installing them.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals ya my car battery for the last year has been a 7lb 32ah 4s lifepo4 pack that i built. car is a chevy volt. no bms. heats itself thru a 15w heating pad and relay to stay 4c above 0c.
uses like 20 wh per day in freezing temp to self warm coz its insulated and inside the car. cost about 50$ to build. car is solar powered so not that big of deal, but battery could last about 20 days in freezing temperature, thats more than I would trust a 3 year old lead acid.
Don't discount "lazy battery"... sitting will cause a temporary reduction in capacity for both lead and lithium, I have no doubt sodium will do the same thing. A half dozen "warm up" cycles will probably give different results.
I'll investigate that. I had cycled the new batteries a few times when devising the test.
I noticed this when I got a 12 year old iPad out from storage. The battery life was horrible for a while but then it gradually got better and now it's pretty good.
@@bigfootandbananaman4746 It usually restores without issue when there's a single cell.
I go easy waking multicell up that's been sitting because the cells will all be in slightly different stances. Definitely make sure solid balancing is in play each cycle (if not full time) and load them light during the exercise cycles until you see them coming around.
Nice video. but to be honest i didn't get what was result of the test..so a bit pointless. diffent capacity, different chemistry and not clear graph because of testing method. If you want to show proper graphs you have to use proper diagnostics/equipment. ..so again nice one but pointless it is saying nothing.
Conclusions:
Sodiums can charge cold
Sodiums discharge to v low voltages and recover without drama
Sodiums perform well under higher loads and cold, but not quite as well as LFP
Sodiums experience low voltage drop when under load
@@AlexHibbertOriginals
ah yes, then,
when you want to use them you are limited to 50% of their capacity because of existing inverters and chargers. so they have to be at least half the price of lifepo4 before they come even pricewise.
The limitations on regulators and chargers are incredibly easy to achieve. Chargers just need to be reprogrammed up to 17V. And plenty of larger regulators accept down to 8V, beneath which there's not much capacity.
I got scammed on Aliexpress buying a BTR Hakadi LTO starter battery.
What did they send you instead?
It must be said that Chinese battery chargers are some of the very worst products the country exports!
Sadly I think even Western-marketed chargers still have their components made there. But the quality CAN be good if you're picky.
Please desactivate the automatic audio translation! this is intolerable. stay in native laguage voice more real and pleasant voice instead of this hellish synthetic voice. thank's a lot
I think you can just switch it off in your video controls in the bottom right corner? UA-cam have introduced this feature recently without announcing it to us creators!
Appreciate the detailed breakdown! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How can I transfer them to Binance?
Sodium battery still suck..
Lithium batteries are rubbish? WHat a stupid thing to say. Now you think sodium that has a lower energy density could be better? Sheesh
I'm surprised it took nearly a day for someone to take the bait.
But, I was only half-joking.
Lithium is the norm, and so is credited with lots of achievements, but that's not because it's optimal. Any tech that's dominant in a market is only so until the moment it's not. We look back disdainfully on many old tech systems.
Lithium has the mining/geopolitics issues. It has an annoying voltage discharge profile. It's sensitive to being cycled frequently, hard or deep when viewed in absolute terms, and not vs lead acid. It requires insanely wasteful electric heating to charge it in moderate cold conditions, otherwise it breaks. It's been around for decades and none of the different flavours overcome the key issues.
Sodium is new, and there's already work underway to deal with the low energy density issue.
Might sodium be like minidiscs before the mp3 of solid state? Who knows.
But lithium is not king.