I hope you find this helpful! 💗 The Video is Time-Stamp this video so you can come back any any time and find the exact Encounter you're Stuck on! → FOLLOW ME ON TWITCH: www.twitch.tv/kackishd Join the Discord ► discord.gg/pzDWPuEtas More Destiny 2 Videos ► ua-cam.com/play/PLlNJ2PqJdcZ3mOMjFXGBRvoC1KF_Klp7X.html
I’m sorry but servitor boss sh*t is very complex to understand, the multi servitor part were 2 servitors have the same doted number I only got 3 digit number and I don’t know what’s the 4th number. This sh*t is getting infuriating.
This is an interesting tidbit for those looking to speed up their attempts on the second encounter (and I'm only 95% sure this is correct) it's not actually just 'slaying out for a bit' that spawns the Machine Priest that teleports you. There are like 5-6 or so invisible Marauders that you have to kill. Once those guys are dead the big boy will spawn. Source - My fireteam loves looking for things like this, we call them "Load bearing enemies"
I understand that a number of people asks for more challenges in missions. However, inevitable all that Bungie does is create a barrier that harms people with disabilities, as if the society's own barrier were not enough to put us aside. I've been playing since 2017, but because I'm deaf, I could never complete a raid with other players. Even knowing the mechanics, the problem of "lack of active communication", as I had to read around, always end up making me removed from the group. But since the last expansion, I see that the list of missions that I will not be able to complete to get good rewards will increase more and more. Putting a time limit already makes the mission more difficult, like Zero Hour. But until then, these missions did not bring very advanced mechanics, requiring more dominance of the game itself and character builds. But when there are time limits, such as in Duality and Vesper's Host, added to enemies emerging at all times, it is impossible to explain where my companions should shoot to activate the door, for example. Or even in the case of missions that reward Microcosm, there is no way to warn when it is time to shoot the icons (the 1, 2, 3 strat) to start the damage phase in the bosses, because this icons are on the other side of the phase and I have no clear vision to do without having to drop the control, take the keyboard and type everything, since if I do that I die and we lost a token. Glad people who like challenges are enjoying these new missions, but I'm sorry that other people with disabilities do not have the same opportunity to get more cool rewards or complete more triumphs.
Is there a speech-to-text feature in Discord or other chat program so you could read the chats? You wouldn’t need to speak/text, but if someone else gives the callouts they you would be all set. If you need two people to figure out how to do this with you, let me know and my brother or my brother-in-law and I will work with you. I see you being the blue buff on boss fight in main room and red buff on lower levels. My brother and I can handle comms for the buffs in the first two encounters as long as you can take care of the brig and and exploding shanks. Not ideal or ultra-inclusive, but if you need help, let me know.
Its not easy to make destiny a game for deaf people. Destiny is a game of communication, I hope you dont find this offensive. I would stick with the Halo franchise if I were you, though you can always try to find a team that carries you. Most raids can have a squad of 5 people and 1 that kills enemies. Its important to understand the mechanics first so you can recognize certain wipe mechanics to prevent that from happening. Its a struggle for you ofcourse, I hope you still can enjoy destiny
@@Havocinflames It's very easy to make Destiny a game that can be enjoyed by anyone that has a system that can run the game, just don't put in mechanics that require people to communicate, what does telling someone which panel to shoot add to the game? Nothing, absolutely nothing, I want to play the game, not speak the game, speaking doesn't add anything to the game play, if I'm deaf there's a lot of stuff I can't do, if my mic is under warranty and taking weeks to get a replacement I have to buy an extra if I want to play a lot of it, if I'm ill and it hurts to talk, if I want to chat to a friend who isn't on the game while I play with randoms there's a lot I can't do, it's just so pointless to make the game difficult for people who can't or don't want to talk by making them talk even though it adds nothing to the game, in most games talking is optional and can help you but it's not essential, and if I don't want to talk people say "be more social", like that's why I play games, I've been social all day and it's nice to have a break from it by playing the new dungeon on Destiny but no, sometimes I just want to play the new dungeon on Destiny and not have to talk to anyone but no, especially if I've spent the whole day talking to people at work, why force me to socialise? Why does Bungie want me to socialise? Why do they care? What do they achieve by forcing players to talk? I don't get it.
@@mandylou5813 because when you get hit by arc dmg, Riskrunner deal chain arc dmg and you are more resistant to arc dmg, Fallens deal mostly arc dmg, thats why
Luck we all have khakis videos to help us get through new destiny content. He's our Messiah. I think ive watched the new raid for dummies series for about a decade now.
man I've played Destiny for years, and I've watched your video for years. This is the first time I ever experienced motion sickness watching one of your videos. Im getting old.
for the glowing servitors in the 2nd encounter, just look for the ones that have sort of extra "eyes" on them. theyre a lot more noticable than the subtle glow
Dude, this was great, wanted to try it yester when it came out but was exhausted from work, pretty sure we would not have gone past the servator hide n seek puzzle. You are a legend and this dummy thanks you for the guide.
You must’ve been on live long af to figure this out. I give you credit. First time I’ve seen gameplay before it becomes background gameplay. Keep it up🎯🔥
Bro me and and my guys were stuck on the first encounter simply because of game crashes and it was so bs because of that we couldn’t get contest mode complete which was so not fair bungie needs to fix those crash glitches
19:59 - also on their faces they have glowing red circles, that tells you they are the ones as well, im not sure if it has any other mechanic but it makes it easier to distinguish
@@fraleb527 usually a servitor only has the center circle glowing, these ones have a sort of Up Down Left and Right glowing circle as well, at the timestamp look at the left "glowing" enemy, he's also got a circle the right side of his face kinda thing? Something like that I guess
It’s like an additional eye…think of how knucklehead radar exotic looks…with protruding nodes, it’s similar to that. It’s much easier to distinguish the two odd ones out vs the light blue glow
@@Chunkz5515I doubt it's a mechanic, each circle represents a number to number each servitor I think. Top is 1, right is 2, bottom is 4, left is 8. You'll notice each time a servitor is the correct one the same circles appear, because it adds up to their number
Kackis..as always you explain perfectly what needs doing. I will admit, this seems way more time consuming than i initially thought...however.. i do feel alot more prepared to be able to complete this dungeon at a later time.
Nice, way to go !! Glad there’s a video for all of us Hard Working gamers out there. I’d be stuck forever considering the amount of time I get to try and game.
If you just use operator in the beginning you can audibly hear the correct ones to shoot by just listening for the sound it makes when its one you have to shoot. No scanner required.
That was a truckload of work you did during that dungeon contest. So two things I want to say before I go to work. First I want to acknowledge you for all your hard work and dedication into making these videos for all of us to pass the raids and dungeons you and your team put on a heck of a show but not only that a heck of a lot of intel on your videos and for that I thank you. I hope your team one won cuz as far as what I heard the first team already beaten the dungeon
@@jensbond1918doesn't seem to matter, same outcome for us regardless of order (thought we might get more boss damage timer or something based on order but nothing matters as long as you shoot the correct ones (I think) )
@@CyberFlashThe eyes just represent the servitor number in binary. Servitor 1 is always just top eye, servitor 7 is always top(1) right(2) and bottom(4)
That dungeon was wild, I watched the stream. Good run man. Kack is backkkk! for another contest completion.! The team really popped off on the boss at the end, Kackill mode activated
This has gotta be the most in depth dungeon to date right? I feel like the other dungeons are a breeze for the most part but I almost don’t even want to do this one😭😭
Bungie needs to make it easier to make out which servitors are glowing. I and my ff team got stuck on this encounter, because of how hard it was to make out which ones were glowing. Sometimes, playing D2 endgame activities feels like playing a rigged carnival game. 😂
Your videos are dope. You and 1 other streamer have gotten me thru the last 3 episodes. Just trim that beard dude lol but yea everything is fantastic from you
Thanks, Rick! When will Bungie help the vision disabled community? I helped a new light through Shattered and every time I raised my brightness in my PC or Bungie settings, it returned to full darkness within seconds? WTF? Anyhow. Thanks for another great guide!
People who are less confident with contest need to do a full run or normal to get a feel for it then try contest mode after 2 or 3 normal runs makes it X10 easier
@@kh0nanI think it's that you need to switch weapons just as you are dunking, it's an old destiny glitch that doesn't seem to go away 😅 never managed to do it myself though, strict timing required
@trekrl2327 ok, but still way too much crap to do in my opinion. I hate doing any extra puzzles in games... I don't do raids for the same reason. I did try DSC a few times but hated it & was told it was the easiest out all the raids...
In the brig encounter apparently you can duplicate the orbs your dunking to speed up the encounter, i haven't actually tried i just seen a video explaining it but yeah apparently its possible.... Unless bungie patched it in the last 12 hours.
I hope you find this helpful! 💗
The Video is Time-Stamp this video so you can come back any any time and find the exact Encounter you're Stuck on!
→ FOLLOW ME ON TWITCH: www.twitch.tv/kackishd
Join the Discord ► discord.gg/pzDWPuEtas
More Destiny 2 Videos ► ua-cam.com/play/PLlNJ2PqJdcZ3mOMjFXGBRvoC1KF_Klp7X.html
I was watching your steam yesterday and I hope icebreaker becomes your favorite exotic because that dungeon looked like hell.
Note on “glowing servators” … also, the 2 you want have more eyes than the typical ones that only have 1.
Do the glowing orbs matter? EG: (* o ) or ( : ) or ( : *)
@@firenhell02 Don’t think so … just a way to tell the 2 “special” ones (#’s) apart from the normal servators
I’m sorry but servitor boss sh*t is very complex to understand, the multi servitor part were 2 servitors have the same doted number I only got 3 digit number and I don’t know what’s the 4th number. This sh*t is getting infuriating.
This is an interesting tidbit for those looking to speed up their attempts on the second encounter (and I'm only 95% sure this is correct) it's not actually just 'slaying out for a bit' that spawns the Machine Priest that teleports you. There are like 5-6 or so invisible Marauders that you have to kill. Once those guys are dead the big boy will spawn. Source - My fireteam loves looking for things like this, we call them "Load bearing enemies"
lol “load bearing enemies”
Ah thanks I was wondering which enemies they were. I thought it was the captains considering bungie usually attributes them to those type of enemies
Dorks.
@@Che9009 you’re god damn right
@@Che9009 you're a waste of space
I understand that a number of people asks for more challenges in missions. However, inevitable all that Bungie does is create a barrier that harms people with disabilities, as if the society's own barrier were not enough to put us aside. I've been playing since 2017, but because I'm deaf, I could never complete a raid with other players. Even knowing the mechanics, the problem of "lack of active communication", as I had to read around, always end up making me removed from the group. But since the last expansion, I see that the list of missions that I will not be able to complete to get good rewards will increase more and more. Putting a time limit already makes the mission more difficult, like Zero Hour. But until then, these missions did not bring very advanced mechanics, requiring more dominance of the game itself and character builds. But when there are time limits, such as in Duality and Vesper's Host, added to enemies emerging at all times, it is impossible to explain where my companions should shoot to activate the door, for example. Or even in the case of missions that reward Microcosm, there is no way to warn when it is time to shoot the icons (the 1, 2, 3 strat) to start the damage phase in the bosses, because this icons are on the other side of the phase and I have no clear vision to do without having to drop the control, take the keyboard and type everything, since if I do that I die and we lost a token. Glad people who like challenges are enjoying these new missions, but I'm sorry that other people with disabilities do not have the same opportunity to get more cool rewards or complete more triumphs.
Is there a speech-to-text feature in Discord or other chat program so you could read the chats? You wouldn’t need to speak/text, but if someone else gives the callouts they you would be all set.
If you need two people to figure out how to do this with you, let me know and my brother or my brother-in-law and I will work with you.
I see you being the blue buff on boss fight in main room and red buff on lower levels. My brother and I can handle comms for the buffs in the first two encounters as long as you can take care of the brig and and exploding shanks. Not ideal or ultra-inclusive, but if you need help, let me know.
Its not easy to make destiny a game for deaf people. Destiny is a game of communication, I hope you dont find this offensive. I would stick with the Halo franchise if I were you, though you can always try to find a team that carries you. Most raids can have a squad of 5 people and 1 that kills enemies. Its important to understand the mechanics first so you can recognize certain wipe mechanics to prevent that from happening. Its a struggle for you ofcourse, I hope you still can enjoy destiny
@@Havocinflames It's very easy to make Destiny a game that can be enjoyed by anyone that has a system that can run the game, just don't put in mechanics that require people to communicate, what does telling someone which panel to shoot add to the game? Nothing, absolutely nothing, I want to play the game, not speak the game, speaking doesn't add anything to the game play, if I'm deaf there's a lot of stuff I can't do, if my mic is under warranty and taking weeks to get a replacement I have to buy an extra if I want to play a lot of it, if I'm ill and it hurts to talk, if I want to chat to a friend who isn't on the game while I play with randoms there's a lot I can't do, it's just so pointless to make the game difficult for people who can't or don't want to talk by making them talk even though it adds nothing to the game, in most games talking is optional and can help you but it's not essential, and if I don't want to talk people say "be more social", like that's why I play games, I've been social all day and it's nice to have a break from it by playing the new dungeon on Destiny but no, sometimes I just want to play the new dungeon on Destiny and not have to talk to anyone but no, especially if I've spent the whole day talking to people at work, why force me to socialise? Why does Bungie want me to socialise? Why do they care? What do they achieve by forcing players to talk? I don't get it.
Little note about each encounter, only CONTEST MODE has the enrage mechanics, including first encounter’s timer
I actually think the timer is cool asf. Made it feel like a mini raid encounter. Still, what an amazing dungeon so far omg I love it.
@@CastilloBass timers are for loser nerds
@@mongolen-kn2yc L I guess dude
Thank you I know I will die a lot
@@CastilloBassthat timer is too tight. Its terrible
Riskrunner was actually such a good exotic weapon choice for this. Good job
Why is that? I never actually used it
@@mandylou5813 because when you get hit by arc dmg, Riskrunner deal chain arc dmg and you are more resistant to arc dmg, Fallens deal mostly arc dmg, thats why
@@anriofastora3186well damn I gotta try this
Been watching your “for dummies” guides since kings fall! Crazy how long it’s been. Thanks for still covering the game.
Luck we all have khakis videos to help us get through new destiny content. He's our Messiah. I think ive watched the new raid for dummies series for about a decade now.
man I've played Destiny for years, and I've watched your video for years. This is the first time I ever experienced motion sickness watching one of your videos. Im getting old.
Cause he plays with motion blur on. And/or he doesnt upload with 60fps
@@xTheLostLegendx I can't imagine someone playing with motion blur on, that is probably the cause
for the glowing servitors in the 2nd encounter, just look for the ones that have sort of extra "eyes" on them. theyre a lot more noticable than the subtle glow
My man... day 1 dropping a full guide. You sir are a beast!
"The scanner mechanic works in the same way, and it is a different way". - Rick Kackis
Dude, this was great, wanted to try it yester when it came out but was exhausted from work, pretty sure we would not have gone past the servator hide n seek puzzle.
You are a legend and this dummy thanks you for the guide.
You must’ve been on live long af to figure this out. I give you credit. First time I’ve seen gameplay before it becomes background gameplay. Keep it up🎯🔥
I don't sleep until I can make the guide for you guys 💖
@@KackisHD W
@@KackisHDhero
@@KackisHDWWWWW
Bro me and and my guys were stuck on the first encounter simply because of game crashes and it was so bs because of that we couldn’t get contest mode complete which was so not fair bungie needs to fix those crash glitches
19:59 - also on their faces they have glowing red circles, that tells you they are the ones as well, im not sure if it has any other mechanic but it makes it easier to distinguish
Where do you see a red circle there, i'm confused ?
@@fraleb527 usually a servitor only has the center circle glowing, these ones have a sort of Up Down Left and Right glowing circle as well, at the timestamp look at the left "glowing" enemy, he's also got a circle the right side of his face kinda thing? Something like that I guess
It’s like an additional eye…think of how knucklehead radar exotic looks…with protruding nodes, it’s similar to that. It’s much easier to distinguish the two odd ones out vs the light blue glow
There's definitely a mechanic we're missing with the glowing orbs, they definitely don't just show which 4 to shoot
@@Chunkz5515I doubt it's a mechanic, each circle represents a number to number each servitor I think. Top is 1, right is 2, bottom is 4, left is 8. You'll notice each time a servitor is the correct one the same circles appear, because it adds up to their number
Whatever happen to Dungeons being simpler than Raids?
To me, this feels like Bungie was building a new Raid, then decided halfway to make it a dungeon.
I dig it.
In contest mode sure. Normal is too easy to be a raid
Probably because they used toned down raid mechanics and then slapped on actual raid mechanics for contest mode.
A raid when it’s all DSC mechanics???
@@HirasSketches contest ron was shorter and thats considered a raid
I don't, the deepstone mechanics suck
Kackis..as always you explain perfectly what needs doing. I will admit, this seems way more time consuming than i initially thought...however.. i do feel alot more prepared to be able to complete this dungeon at a later time.
Dude I watched the whole thing live on UA-cam with my friends like it was the World Cup ❤
Nice, way to go !! Glad there’s a video for all of us Hard Working gamers out there. I’d be stuck forever considering the amount of time I get to try and game.
This dungeon is pretty straight forward. Definitely one of the easier ones
It's a good solo. I recommend riskrunner with the kintsugi helmet, stasis for DPS on the first two phases. Working out the third one.
If you just use operator in the beginning you can audibly hear the correct ones to shoot by just listening for the sound it makes when its one you have to shoot. No scanner required.
That was a truckload of work you did during that dungeon contest. So two things I want to say before I go to work. First I want to acknowledge you for all your hard work and dedication into making these videos for all of us to pass the raids and dungeons you and your team put on a heck of a show but not only that a heck of a lot of intel on your videos and for that I thank you. I hope your team one won cuz as far as what I heard the first team already beaten the dungeon
Glowing ones have red circles on the front as well. Like knuckle head radar kinda. 20:43
My team just called out the ones that had "extra eyes"
They all have different positions, does that matter in which Sequenz you shoot?
@@jensbond1918doesn't seem to matter, same outcome for us regardless of order (thought we might get more boss damage timer or something based on order but nothing matters as long as you shoot the correct ones (I think) )
@@CyberFlashThe eyes just represent the servitor number in binary. Servitor 1 is always just top eye, servitor 7 is always top(1) right(2) and bottom(4)
Was just about to comment this 😂much easier to distinguish the eyes from the blue glow
That dungeon was wild, I watched the stream. Good run man. Kack is backkkk! for another contest completion.! The team really popped off on the boss at the end, Kackill mode activated
thx for all the guides they are helping me aq lot!!!
this is such a great explanation! thanks for all the content you put out!
Our clan affectionately call this dungeon, “ Deep Stone Jr.”
Amazing to have a guide up already!
Thank you for your tutorial videos! Always the most thorough and that’s what I need!
Love seeing the Twitch Streams! Thanks for the content brotha.
Thundercrash worked so well against the Brigs
✋❌ - Nuclear
👉✅ - Nukilar
Thank you Kackis. Great vid 👍
I wondered if I was the only one that caught that!…lol…
Anyone else watching this just to keep up to date with what our buddies still playing D2 are doing rn?
Big thanks for getting this guide out so quickly.
Prismatic solar warlock with the new super might be a good choice for this
I always come to watch the guides. Thanks Ricky
Thanks for the guide. Don't think I will ever do it.
I waited for this video. Knew you would come out with it !!!
Rick Kackis is the Man!!!
I can't wait to jump into this
13:54 that Dreg saw god when you turned back around
Extremely Helpful
The sound impressions got you your like
This has gotta be the most in depth dungeon to date right? I feel like the other dungeons are a breeze for the most part but I almost don’t even want to do this one😭😭
Thanks Rick, I’m giving this a go tonight!
Bungie needs to make it easier to make out which servitors are glowing. I and my ff team got stuck on this encounter, because of how hard it was to make out which ones were glowing.
Sometimes, playing D2 endgame activities feels like playing a rigged carnival game. 😂
You never let us down 👏👏👏.
I was just looking for your video lmao and I check again and it’s already here. Amazing service!
Ty for this amazing guide 😊
This is my first contest mode activity completion ever! Ty Mr Kackington the 3rd
just finished my first run took over an hour for last boss alone four phase but I got I’ve breaker let’s go
Doing contest mode tomorrow/today looking very forward to hopefully get Icebreaker
Played for 5hrs. We stopped here to continue tomorrow. The DPS is no joke. Best of luck to you
Imma use my mothkeeper hunter build on it. That should be fun
Thanks KHD! We appreciate you brother
Brilliant guide thank you
Me and the boys love our Radiation Poisoning🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
You are the best streamer out there
For raneiks boss no need to see if there glowing you can tell by there eyes if you see like 3 or 4 dots on the eye that's wat you looking for.
How did you get your transcendence back so fast as you use it like it never went away?!?????
I got icebreaker lets gooo! First run as well
AYE LETS GOO THANK YOU KACKIS!!!!
That last boss fight is worse than ANY raid boss.
*look at the servitor boss* yeah, that’s why void hunter super got disabled. It’s infinite super energy right there for a easy 1 phase.
Thanks rick
Your videos are dope. You and 1 other streamer have gotten me thru the last 3 episodes. Just trim that beard dude lol but yea everything is fantastic from you
As you can see this Dungeon is way more easier when using a Titan and Warlock. Best add control and DPS damage to bosses.
Thank you - that was so quick
Sony Corleone to Michael in The Godfather: Bada-bing, bada-ba ding!'. 🤣
No way I’m doing that 😂
Hahaha bro no shit. Me either
Same. I don't like Snipers, anyway
Glad I held off before buying 🤣
that was my thought after the big ball encounter, its too much or iam getting old, so no icebreaker for me...
@@christianmoser3909 We will get it one day they will give it away for free and everyone will be mad lol
I’m think the timer is only on contest mode, cause the normal version there isn’t a timer on that first encounter.
Nice guide thanks
Thanks, Rick!
When will Bungie help the vision disabled community?
I helped a new light through Shattered and every time I raised my brightness in my PC or Bungie settings, it returned to full darkness within seconds? WTF?
Anyhow. Thanks for another great guide!
Late night upload lezz gooo
Can you power off & on the doors while holding the core?
People who are less confident with contest need to do a full run or normal to get a feel for it then try contest mode after 2 or 3 normal runs makes it X10 easier
But normal is not available until contest ends ? How would you do it ?
@CyberFlash it's available after world's first
@@KingJC. Oh! Great 😄 definitely a good shout then, I thought we had to wait until contest ends 🤣 practice mode here we come
@@CyberFlash normal is available lol has been for hours
@@AX3V1P3R yeah
what scout rifle is that in the first bit?
What loadouts did you use for the dungeon
I heard you can cheeze the core with out having to do the other two rooms.
How?
@@kh0nanI think it's that you need to switch weapons just as you are dunking, it's an old destiny glitch that doesn't seem to go away 😅 never managed to do it myself though, strict timing required
If the nuclear core disappeared or Explodes because you never picked it up in time how do you get it back?
Thank you Mr Kackis for you massive tip (;
Lets go another awesome guide
On raneiks my team bugged him out were we only had to damage phase him once it was nuts
How? I seen someone else do the same but they never explained. But I have a theory.. were you by chance using suppressor grenades?
@@brittanybowes6474 i have no idea. I don’t think so
So what about the dots on the face of the servitors?
What about the servo that have the same glowing dots
Is it still timed on normal?
You f'n rock, Rick. Thank you very much
Way too many things to remember & I HATE BEING TIMED so I will never be trying to do this one personally.
Timer isn't active on normal. That was just the enrage mechanic for 1st encounter on contest mode.
@trekrl2327 ok, but still way too much crap to do in my opinion. I hate doing any extra puzzles in games... I don't do raids for the same reason. I did try DSC a few times but hated it & was told it was the easiest out all the raids...
@@MrJoshuaDotsonsame here, this will be the first dungeon I completely skip.
In the brig encounter apparently you can duplicate the orbs your dunking to speed up the encounter, i haven't actually tried i just seen a video explaining it but yeah apparently its possible.... Unless bungie patched it in the last 12 hours.
I found dragons breath on 2nd encounter mopped the floor with all the servitors
Can it be done solo tho?
Dummy here... thank you very much.
o7
thanks for the guide! that "Nucular"is killing me though
Quick question: is there an enrage in contest mode for encounters 2 and 3? Thanks!
Yeah but is there a enrage or can you go to damage infinitly
how to drop the core at 8:54 ?
Switch weapon
What sniper is that
How do you put it into contest mode? I couldn’t find the option.
As a almost fully colourblind person. The servitor encounter was super hard bc I could hardly see a difference....and yes my settings are changed 😂
The glowing servitors have different eyes, hope this helps you in future encounters :)
Can you solo this dungeon or do you need others to play with
If it’s possible, Esoterick will get it done.
if i play every encounter with a different character, does the completion counts for the 48 hour threshold?