(this is a long one) I am SO glad I came across your video. I remember watching "Logopolis" on VHS, and I too was gripped by this scene (which is scored and acted beautifully). In Irish and Scottish folklore, there's an entity called a Banshee (or other names). She is heard wailing or seen before someone's death. The watcher is a play on that, or other legends and stories, about people who see ghostly figures OR human figures as real as you or I. Figures of death or doom. Or even those who give warnings. I remember when I was young reading stories about the supernatural or mysterious. One is a a story, about a man riding on a horse. And in the opposite direction, riding towards him, is his doppelganger. Dressed differently, as though he's gone up in the world, but clearly him? Later, in the twist, this turns out t be how he is in his own future. The watcher is very much like The Mothman. According to witnesses, this creature was seen before a huge disaster, where a bridge collapsed killing many people. The Watcher has a slight difference, in the fact, he was maybe projected back into the Doctor's own past by a dying future 4th Doctor, to aid his earlier self, to ensure his up coming regeneration goes right? But, this IS NOT the first time we see a Watcher like being. (Riffing on what you said) "Planet of the Spiders" has a future self, Cho-Je, existing along side his past self. In fact, he's helping to run temple where K'anpo lives and teaches. Curiously, this seems VERY similar to how the 10th Doctor is able to continue and visit his companions before he dies. IS regeneration more than changing? Can a Timelord not only CONTROL the results of a regeneration BUT ALSO hold it off? "Twice upon a time" makes this part of the reason both the 1st and 12th Doctor meet. And just like the Watcher, Cho Je is there to ensure his future regeneration goes smoothly. Curiously, he is able to interact and communicate far more than The Watcher does. He's impacting the events and aiding Tommy in defending themselves against the pupils who are under the great queen spider's control. Maybe the Watcher interacts and has less substantial appearance, because he was created in a moment of jeopardy? Cho Je could very well be the result of a Timelord, who knows how to project into his own past because he is mentally focused and disciplined from hundreds of years of learning? David
@@dwfan91- Thank you very much. Doctor Who has always had great writers who explored it's own mythos and ideas. Oddly, (I just realised this) both examples I mentioned are from the 3rd and 4th Doctor's swan songs. Have a good week. Peace and love, David
omg this is all very interesting! tbh, i'm convinced the 12th Doctor was holding back his regeneration since all the way back in series 9 when Davros got him to save the Daleks
Wow that IS a thought@@LucyliciousDoccyWho. There is the possibility time would strike back or punish the Doctor. Like after he over stepped the line in "The Waters of Mars" in abusing his power? But, that would make for a compelling and dangerous nemesis one season: Time itself. The Doctor does something which is more than abusing his power or refusing to regenerate. It would have to be a HUGE no no. And, the writer, would have so much to work with. IS the Doctor going mad? Or is time actually affecting events to kill or force whatever he stopped or prevented to happen? So, there would be long lasting consequences of the Doctor's actions. David
@@davidaston5773 yeh the idea of time being personified is genius and its potential is untapped... I'm gonna make a doccy who knock off someday about a time travelling gun and time is gonna have its own whims in it coz that was such a good idea
I think the whole magic of the watcher is that we never really know who he was. It’s a secret kept by the Doctor and I kinda like it like that because it gives more of a shadowy aura around Tom Baker’s Doctor and to an extent Davison’s Doctor as they never truly explain to their companions who the Watcher was.
The showrunner at the time of the 3rd Doctor was big into Buddhism and introduced many elements of that into the show. By the time of the 4th doctors regeneration I think the writers were just experimenting with making the process more 'mysterious'. That's always been my take on this. Personally I prefer your explanation, it makes way more sense. Excellent job.
Barry Letts was the producer with an interest in Buddhism during the 3 Doctor's time and he was also executive producer of Tom's last season so I think you've made a good observation.
it was a children's show episode dealing with entropy, death and using pure mathematics to to model the possible existence of a specific space-time event or piece of matter. In an 80's kids show!
@@purefoldnz3070 Doctor Who always has some adult-themed orientations, ever since the Hartnell Era. Moreso and notably during the second half of the Tom Baker Era.
I also always thought that the Watcher was why the Fifth Doctor was younger. He was an infusion of life force that caused the Doctor's new body to appear younger.
Not needed. The Second Doctor is clearly younger than the First (who unusually expires due to old age), and the Fourth younger than the Third - the Third being an artificially induced regeneration. Regeneration is also rejuvenation, fr th emost part.
@@richardgregory3684 Yeah, but, at the time he was the youngest actor to play the role and it caused something of a stir. It just seemed a good way to explain the sudden apparent dip in physical age.
That gave me an interesting thought, maybe it's some kind of rare anomaly and the only reason the Doctor could even keep getting younger with each regeneration? Do we even know if timelords can normally regenerate as often and effectively as the Doctor has?
@@BierBart12 According to the original series they get 12 regneraions, 13 lives (regneraitons plus their original). It seems to mostly go smoothly but a regeneration crisis can happen, from time to time. When they do they can use a Zero Room to aid them.
@@BierBart12 We do. Originally regeneration was limitted to 12 - it's generally a smooth process but the Doctor is significant in that his regenerations have all been prompted by something catastrophic - only the First Doctor regenerates through sheer age and frailty, and even that is largely prompted by the stress and effort involved in the Tenth Planet story. Romana, on the other hand, regenerates in a very causla manner in Destiny of the Daleks. There's no trauma and no recovery period. Castrovalca states that regeneration can produce problems and zero rooms helping, but of course, that could have been another fake entry by the Master...in NuWho we see Time Lords regenerate completely effortlessly
The watcher was essentially the doctor's next regeneration and he was measuring a police box to fix his broken chameleon circuit he wasn't making sure if it worked.
I have a fan theory. Before the 5th doctor regenerated in caves of androzani, he sees all his friends and the master around him. My theory is that before he became the sixth doctor, he astral projected himself through time and became the watcher. His appearance is a result of a bio perception filter effect, were he looks like he does because no one has seen him yet so he has no physical form. And with what was left of him, he warned 4, and protected Adric, Nyssa and Tegan before traveling with them, showing how far the 5th doctor will go to protect his friends.
During the first 4 regenerations they all had different ways of changing the Doctor. The second said after his first regeneration it was part of the TARDIS. The next regeneration was forced by the Time Lords. Third was assisted Fourth was merged with his next incarnation. I think the Watcher told the Doctor who he was and prepare for the worst would be him sacrificing and regenerating. We don’t actually get a ‘natural’ regeneration until Davison
@@dwfan91- Yes because he’s been badly effected and doesn’t think he’ll make it But yes I think because it was the beginning of the natural regeneration
The Watcher was "extracted" from between the 4th and 5th Doctors in order to go back and warn his past self about the momentous universe-shattering events to come. The Valeyard in the 1986 story with Colin Baker is similar, but an "extracted" evil version instead of a good one.
THANK YOU!! You’ve unlocked a core childhood memory with this video. For YEARS, I’ve been describing this character to people, and no one knows what I’m talking about. This is such a relief. Again, thank you!!
As a Fourth Doctor fan, I'm game for any analysis tied to this era, particularly T. Baker's final season, which I find highly underrated, including "Logopolis," with its sense of melancholy and wonder, and an excellent, moody soundtrack, particularly the Watcher's Theme. I frankly prefer these calmer, more introspective regenerations in the early years. The fire stuff from the recent series is all fine and good, but it just lacks anything substantial for reflection. Even Patrick Troughton's comedic delaying tactics before the Time Lords zapped him into Jon Pertwee were charming and whimsical.
Agreed. Although they did explain why Time Lords do the whole “explosive Regeneration” thing in newer media. It was due to the Time Lords weaponizing Regeneration during the Time War. Sadly it was completely retconned, especially during the Timeless Child arc (which is of course controversial).
We have to take for account that the Doctor's regenerations grew more violent as he aged and suffered trauma. Especially from the Ninth Doctor onward-- the first Doctor to die after swallowing whole the entirety of the *Time Vortex* converging the Heart of the TARDIS out of Bad Wolf's mouth and body.
@@AttakusZakus It's not that new. The Fifth Doctor died in a mildly explosive burst of iridescent light-- nowhere as violent as NuWho incarnations of the Doctor, but still _violent_ enough to have him brutally lord at Peri from staying a safe distance from him: *to the other edge of the TARDIS panel control room* . The Sixth Doctor equally died in a burst of iridescent aura light fiering from his body. The Seventh Doctor's "posthumous" regeneration had his corpse rapidly twitching, convulsing and morphing almost inhumanly as his body was leaking an electromagnetic force field of lightning arcs and lightning blasts that had the morgue he was laid in almost destroyed. The Eighth Doctor's Sisterhood of Karn-assisted revived regeneration was pretty much similar to some of the regenerations passed through by his early incarnations, except that the light emitted by his body was so powerfully blinding that the mystic women had to cloak themselves out of it. Just to give you a reminder, the Sisterhood of Karn are from Gallifreyan race: they possess a variety of abilities, traits and powers in common with their mystico-genetically engineered Time Lords brethren, including their limited resilience to extreme light exposure... that "blinding light" for Gallifreyan standards would've done FAR much damage to the human eye, if not even worse. The only addition they did to the Doctor's regenerations was that ever since the Ninth incarnation swallowed whole the Time Vortex out of Bad Wolf's body, each of his regenerations are *always exponentionally much explosive than the former.* He is not just leaking deadly amounts of bio-electrical energy or to fade from one form to another: he had some form of particle-wave energy reminiscent of both *Artron energy and Time Vortex energy* literally erupting out of his body.
I absolutely adore 'The Watcher'. It's just a brilliantly mysterious idea brought to the lore and I feel people seem to hate on it not being explained. Whilst people seem to be okay with the very same idea being used in The End of Time. Personally I feel Timelord lore is way too explored and explained. So having something like this left this ambiguous is cool. Personal head canon wise. I like the idea that because the universe is ending and by effect causing the future not to happen and the universe to change. So it's a bit head f*ck-y. But I like the idea that his future self from the version of the universe where it gets resolved was able to travel back in time to help make sure the future remains the same rather than entropy destroying everything. But I also like how Planet of the Spiders sort of works as a pre-cursor to The Watcher. Very few people seem to point that out.
Too bad the Watcher became so underrated that... 'it' I think, almost became forgotten. I would love to see The Watcher returns again, on TV not in novelization. Maybe for the 14th Doctor or 15th Doctor in a few years, though I think the Watcher should have appeared for the 13th Doctor.
I've always thought of the Watcher as an intermediate stage between Drs 4 & 5. A regeneration that will not happen if the Master succeeds in his plan. The fourth Drs 'death' is hinted at in Logopolis. The Master's Tardis (disguised as a grandfather clock), has the time of 4 minutes to midnight on it's clock face. 4 minutes equals 4 episodes.
Thanks for this clarification. Ever since seeing this episode I had to come up with my own interpretation. I always thought the Watcher was the final regeneration past his thirteenth, since that's the limit of a Time lords regenerations. We saw how the Master deteriorated when he exceeded his limit and absorbed Tremas on Traaken, so I thought the Doctor must have exceeded his limit and instead of absorbing another person (because he would never do that) he fused with himself instead. That was my interpretation up till now.
As a kid back in '81 seeing this character, he definitely gave me the creeps! & I just always assumed he was, as he literally appears to be at the end of Logopolis, the half-way stage between Doctors 4 & 5, who, in some kind of pre-destination paradox, must bring about the completion of his _own_ regeneration, also I think an interesting detail to note about the watcher are his hands, when we see him in close up operating the Tardis controls, he appears to have talons! And while I don't know if it was intentional, like a nod to the watcher or just a coincidence, but when the 9th Doctor is regenerating, for the briefest few seconds, his head does bare a resemblance to the 'unformed' features of the watcher that are not unlike his appearance in Logopolis, it's when his head is back, eyes still closed, just before the familiar hair of the 10th Doctor literally sprouts from his head & his features finally form properly...well maybe, see what you think, around the 2:30 - 2:33 mark - ua-cam.com/video/qa3NM9Jhkn0/v-deo.html
Love this video - My pet fan theory is 'the Watcher' is perhaps a projection of the Doctor comprehending his impending regeneration manifesting in the Doctor's realty. His understanding of it. Anyway, I like the explanation in this video.
Visually The Watcher has strong hints of three world mythology tropes. 1. A Mummy 2. The Angel of Death 3. A Crysalis. Given the Time Lords are regenerating time travellers it's quite possible one incarnation could act as Angel of Death to themselves. Mummification is used by cultures that think the physical body needs preserving for reuse in the after life. The Crysalis is often used as a symbol of rebirth and transformation.
It's a future avatar. We already saw K’anpo Rimpoche had his future avatar, Cho-je. The Watcher may be less defined because of the entropy wave and circumstances of the 4th Doctor's demise. Why should a Time Lord only exist as a single space/time event? :)
I always figured this was the 4th Doctor from an alternate timeline in which he failed to save the universe because the situation in which he [would have] died he knew he wouldn't have regenerated, and so he hesitated. He then barely escaped back in time to tell his past self not to hesitate because if/when he falls, the two of them will merge, allowing him to regenerate after all.
There was actually a scrapped anniversary special in 1993 where the 7th Doctor was dead and an alien went back in time to prevent the 4th Doctor from ever regenerating at Logopolis, which would have been why he would have had an older appearance. I believe this was called The Dark Dimension
Basically it’s a physical manifestation of the next regeneration cause the 80’s was an odd time for the show with the bbc actively sabotaging Colin baker’s regeneration to them nearly cancelling the show after the 22nd season for example
The Watcher was meant to have appeared because the Fourth Doctor was supposed to have regenerated earlier. I'm pretty sure that idea came from a Doctor Who magazine interview with Christopher H. Bibmead many many years ago. As for Kanpo Rimpoche and Cho-Je, the conversation he and the Doctor have is interesting - The Doctor stole a TARDIS because 'he didn't have his power', suggesting that Kanpo/Cho-Je did not require a TARDIS to get about. This would explain his appearance in the Doctor's lab at UNIT HQ at the end.
I caught that last part! I was going to put it into the video but cut it for time. Not heard about that first part so I'll look into it because it sounds interesting
@@dwfan91- I wish I could remember when and where it was - It might have been an interview that coincided with the VHS release of Logopolis... which I believe was 1992. It stuck with me as I found the idea of the Doctor overshooting the point where he should have regenerated really interesting.
This story has intrigued me since I first saw it on PBS way back in 1981. Thank you for answering some questions I've had for decades. Excellent video.
Good description, I kind of saw the Watcher in much the same way as you described. There was also another Watcher of sorts in the Big Finish audio, "The Wormery" where Iris Wildthyme's Watcher/Valeyard is the antagonist (leading to some hilarious dialog from Colin Baker's Doctor about how Iris just keeps ripping him off). And also the Dream Lord in Matt Smith's era (who is more or less implied to be the Valeyard). The Doctor can't quite escape his dark shadow.
Fabulous video and fabulous job explaining. I love how you used the evidence from Planet of the Spiders first, as it's what really explained it best initially. That is, beyond the wonderfully suggestive but still mysterious stuff in Logopolis. Worth remembering that Barry Letts co-wrote one story and then executive produced the next seven years later. And then the audios and novelization are lovely additions. And isn't Trial of the Valeyard fun (and great)?
interesting! tho personally i take all tv stuff to be definitive canon and other stuff to be optional possibilities... idk, maybe the other media stuff happens in a parallel world or something. I feel like one day I'll come up with my own theory about the watcher, tho the explanation you provide is rly cool. I love how u call the valeyard a possible watcher too. that's genius
This intity is part of the regeneration process. Basically it provides the energy and biological matrix superstructure needed for the Doctor to regenerate. In Tom Bakers case when he fell from the scaffolding this intity suddenly came to him and started the energy transition process, but they later changed this to be just the bright color effects used for the A/B roll transition from one actors face to the next actor. In David's regeneration to the 14th doctor, they even changed it again because he was suddenly wearing his old suite as well, and not what Jamie had just been wearing which is traditional for the show. I think David has enough humor attitude to have handled regeneration from the Lady doctor in her old cloths, and then just went and changed out of them, but they didn't give him a chance to play that scene out. I hope that helps, and stay safe. Great videos by the way. Someone should give u a show about all this on BBC One.
Ok, so I don't know Jack about Dr. Who, but this caught my attention. Just the concept of a mysterious white figure standing and watching throughout the show sounds soooo cool
Thanks for the video. It brought a lot of memories for a 14-year-old watching the Doctor Who Marathon. On public television out of New Hampshire. And I have passed the memories to my two sons. And my daughters and now my grandchildren love classic doctor who. They also love the Batman Animated Series too. And too bad Kevin Conroy has passed on. I wish they would have done an aminated 6 episode of Doctor Who/Justice League. Ending with Batman Beyond. Sven from the United States
Hello - new sub to your channel. Found you via a Reddit post asking for the watcher to be explained. I have never watched old-who and probably won’t, but I have spent way too long on the various wikis piecing together the canon for myself. This was hugely helpful. Please make a video on the valeyard!
It would have been a great idea if the final regeneration of the Doctor was the guy controlling things in the background -- you know, flying the TARDIS when he didn't have any control. He could have been the reason why the Doctor knows he'll survive. Also, I think they should have killed off the Doctor and replaced him with his son, or grandson, or his granddaughter Barbara's son kind of thing. Like, let him inherit the TARDIS. At any rate, the final regeneration of the Doctor should have been "the Watcher" to explain things like the Valeyard. Like maybe the Valeyard was the consequence of violating too many times rules, such as meeting himself too many times.
To me, the Watcher was the Doctor's Death, in the same manner that Death was Orpheus's Death in orphic myths and modern reiterations. An avatar of the Doctor's future fifth incarnation and embodied regeneration cycle midlife crisis of sorts. We have to realise that, by the time of Fourth Doctor's incoming tenure, the Renegade Time Lord only had nine more regenerations left...
It's not his best but Logopolis is so good. I loved it because of all the TARDIS scenes in episode one, the Doctor and Adric seeming to walk through lots of TARDIS corridors.
In Buddhism there is the idea of a ‘Tulpa,’ which is a projected other self, almost like an imaginary friend that has its own will and personality (David Lynch uses this idea a lot in Twin Peaks), and this would fit with the idea of the Watcher maybe?
My theory is that the Watcher is the Doctor's dying final incarnation travelling back in time to a point where he knows he's needed to ensure his past self survived.
Watchers have even appeared for other Time Lords as well. It’s like probability personified, a temporally paradoxical handshake, or a Kissogram from Death!
I've always viewed the Watcher as the Doctor's version of putting a post-it-note on the fridge reminding him to buy milk -- except in reverse! There's a lot of in-story hints in _Logopolis_ that the Watcher is *a version* of the Doctor -- the Watcher is able to pilot the TARDIS (and does it better than the current incarnation, LOL), seems to know both Nyssa and Adric and even fetches Nyssa from Traken. Thematically the Watcher character is also a counterpoint to the decayed and emaciated version of the Master from the previous story who merges with a host body in almost the same way the Watcher does with the Doctor. The decayed Master is the past, clawing it's way into the present in any way it can (in _The Deadly Assassain_ he even says "only my hate keeps me alive") while the Watcher is a possible future manifesting itself by reminding the Doctor that a sacrifice has to be made in the present ("It's the end, but the moment has been prepared for").
I always thought The Watcher's appearance was a reference to 'Terror of the Autons', as the Autons had sort of a similar look, introduced the Master (who the Doctor forms a temporary truce with in both), and a radio telescope is a major location.
I know: He is the Who in Doctor Who. As a 5 year old kid I always wondered why everyone calls the Doctor "Doctor" when the series is called Doctor Who. What if the Doctor is Doctor and the Watcher is Who? And together they're Doctor Who. So, basically he is the Doctor, but only the part that isn't the Doctor. Maybe his regeneration energy.
It was Sam Beckett. He went back in time via the "Quantum Leap" program to help the Doctor regenerate. Unfortunately because the Doctor was not human, the Doctor's body rejected Sam's attempts to fuse his consciousness with the Doctor's body and stop the Master, and instead Sam appeared as a disembodied humanoid. In the end the Doctor recognised Sam, and together the Doctor accepted Sam, assimilated Sam into his body and helped the Doctor charge up regeneration energy, and regenerated into the Fifth. "Oh boy, I'm an alien."
I remember watching Logopolis, it seemed to make sense to me at the time. There is only one doctor. This is the true essence of each regeneration of our doctor. The religious analogy would be simply to say that the Watcher is soul of the doctor, which remains the same in each regeneration.
The Doctor’s conversation away from his companions with the watcher in Logopolis reminds me of the secret conversation Aslan had with the White Witch away from the Pevensie children right before Aslan’s slaughter and rebirth in The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. It doesn’t make sense, but the mysteriousness of it all is fascinating.
I first saw this when I was ten with my old man. As a child I didn'tunderstand who The Watcher was because they didn't really explain it, so I asked him. My old man didn't know either, but he *did* recognize that at that point in time Baker was the longest running doctor so he's all "A timelord doesn't get older on the outside like we do, but they age on the inside just like us and so only live about a hundred years or so before they die." At this point I stop my old man to point out that timelords can regenerate, so he's all like "Yes, but they change their bodies when they regenerate and have to do it *before* they die, so when they're about to die The Watcher comes out of them as a warning need to regenerate before they die. The Doctor could have gotten away because he's The Doctor and way smarter than The Master, but he allowed himself to fall and regenerate so The Watcher merged back into him just in case they're needed again in the future." The fact that we got shorter runs of subsequent doctors and I never really saw The Watcher again more or less "verified" the explanation in my childhood brain, The Doctor wasn't going to cut it so close and was choosing to regenerate early before the Watcher had to remind him to do it so he wouldn't die die.
THIS is a construct of the Time Lords, sent out ahead of the 4th Doctor’s regeneration, to catch his incarnation during regeneration. As the 5th Doctor is sitting up beneath the radio telescope, the 4th Doctor was waking up in a London back alley, in a human body, ready to fight the monsters on earth for the rest of the 20th century. We met him in the 50th anniversary movie; as the Curator.
The watcher was a body replacement for Tom (4th Doctor) as he was given a gift from the universe, after his time as the Doctor ended, his gift was to be the archivist/care taker of a trove of VERY powerful artifacts from points in space & time. You are given hints about this & are shown Tom, in that role, during the Zygote? Invasion of 20th century Earth. I think it was during the 10th or 11th Regeneration.
Glad to see this topic, as I remember the watcher giving me chills when I was kid watching it for the first time, back in 1980. Funny how they never re-used the creepy image. For me, I always thought that the Watcher was in fact, a physical manifestation of the Tardis, which we were told, was sentient - hence the Cloister Bell, warning the Doctor of his fate.... Am I off the course? Too left-field..?
I doubt so. It has been inferred very early on in Classic Who that the TARDIS is female and tend to "communicate" somehow with the Doctor - and, on very rare instances, with a few of his human female companions - as such. At one instance, the Fourth Doctor referred to the Tardis as a beautiful lady in front of Lady Romana. Even in the First Season back to 1963, the very first time we had hints that implied aboht the TARDIS being none only sentient but _female-aligned_ , after the time machine began to try possessing the Time Lord's granddaughter Susan and to subconsciously influence Barbara Wright on an intuitive level into persuading the Doctor to correct the travel parameters mid-temporal implosion/time loop before the TARDIS blow up them all along the solar system for good. In the expanded Classical Who lore, multiple incarnations of the Doctor began to refer to the TARDIS as a female being and 'Faction Paradox' inferred that all TARDISes are female with the Matrix as their "mother" .
A good way to think of the watcher is that he’s like the opposite of an echo. Rather than ripples caused by something in the past, he’s a ripple of the future - a ripple of the next doctor and a potential future rippling backwards through time.
I like to believe, The watcher basically oversees all the parallel dimensions the doctor travels to similar to MCU watcher, but without all the extra powers lol
My personal opinion is that after the doctor runs out of regenerations he has one final ghostly version remaining that follows him around trying to see a way to change its fate, that or just reliving old memories/experiences
We first saw a watcher in planet of the spiders in the form of cho he a Buddhist monk,future incarnation of kanpo rinpoche.The valeyard is a watcher,created by the time lords,taken from between the doctors twelfth and thirteenth incarnations of his first regeneration cycle,so between doctors ten and eleven.The watcher we see in logopolis was subconsciously brought into being by the doctor who has known he was going to die for a long time prior to this story.He did not have the power to bring his future incarnation into full form unlike kanpo who gave cho he full form.
I’m not familiar with Dr. Who, but I remember when I was a kid that image of the Watcher floating around in creepy Facebook and Instagram pages, supposedly the last photograph taken by a man before his murder in the ‘70’s. It used to creep me out so much so finding out it’s from Dr. Who, of all places, makes me feel so embarrassed. Why was I so gullible?? 😭😭😭
I think "watchers" are a good way of explaining away any potential bootstrap paradoxes caused by time travel shenanigans. If the watcher is some kind of "alternate universe" version of the doctor and other time lords, one that comes from a timeline where that individual fails and dies as a result of their actions, it creates a third party that allows for the cycle to actually begin within the new timeline To use the Beethoven example: when asking the question "who really wrote beethoven's fifth?" The answer now becomes "the watcher".
In hindsight, I wonder if this was a similar phenomenon to bigeneration. The future of the Doctor echoing back in time and affecting his present. Only it's not as intense as the synchronization the 14th and 15th Doctor went through, so it's more of a ghostly presence
From what I remember the 4th doctor was well past his next regeneration and the Watcher was a forced future regeneration brought on by the 4th's reluctance to move on effecting the time line. As both couldn't occupy the same body/identity at once the Watcher became a phantom of sorts waiting for it's time to become the next Doctor.
(this is a long one)
I am SO glad I came across your video. I remember watching "Logopolis" on VHS, and I too was gripped by this scene (which is scored and acted beautifully).
In Irish and Scottish folklore, there's an entity called a Banshee (or other names).
She is heard wailing or seen before someone's death.
The watcher is a play on that, or other legends and stories, about people who see ghostly figures OR human figures as real as you or I. Figures of death or doom. Or even those who give warnings.
I remember when I was young reading stories about the supernatural or mysterious.
One is a a story, about a man riding on a horse. And in the opposite direction, riding towards him, is his doppelganger. Dressed differently, as though he's gone up in the world, but clearly him?
Later, in the twist, this turns out t be how he is in his own future.
The watcher is very much like The Mothman. According to witnesses, this creature was seen before a huge disaster, where a bridge collapsed killing many people.
The Watcher has a slight difference, in the fact, he was maybe projected back into the Doctor's own past by a dying future 4th Doctor, to aid his earlier self, to ensure his up coming regeneration goes right?
But, this IS NOT the first time we see a Watcher like being.
(Riffing on what you said) "Planet of the Spiders" has a future self, Cho-Je, existing along side his past self. In fact, he's helping to run temple where K'anpo lives and teaches. Curiously, this seems VERY similar to how the 10th Doctor is able to continue and visit his companions before he dies.
IS regeneration more than changing? Can a Timelord not only CONTROL the results of a regeneration BUT ALSO hold it off? "Twice upon a time" makes this part of the reason both the 1st and 12th Doctor meet.
And just like the Watcher, Cho Je is there to ensure his future regeneration goes smoothly.
Curiously, he is able to interact and communicate far more than The Watcher does. He's impacting the events and aiding Tommy in defending themselves against the pupils who are under the great queen spider's control.
Maybe the Watcher interacts and has less substantial appearance, because he was created in a moment of jeopardy?
Cho Je could very well be the result of a Timelord, who knows how to project into his own past because he is mentally focused and disciplined from hundreds of years of learning?
David
this is very interesting
@@dwfan91- Thank you very much. Doctor Who has always had great writers who explored it's own mythos and ideas.
Oddly, (I just realised this) both examples I mentioned are from the 3rd and 4th Doctor's swan songs.
Have a good week. Peace and love,
David
omg this is all very interesting! tbh, i'm convinced the 12th Doctor was holding back his regeneration since all the way back in series 9 when Davros got him to save the Daleks
Wow that IS a thought@@LucyliciousDoccyWho.
There is the possibility time would strike back or punish the Doctor. Like after he over stepped the line in "The Waters of Mars" in abusing his power?
But, that would make for a compelling and dangerous nemesis one season:
Time itself.
The Doctor does something which is more than abusing his power or refusing to regenerate. It would have to be a HUGE no no.
And, the writer, would have so much to work with. IS the Doctor going mad? Or is time actually affecting events to kill or force whatever he stopped or prevented to happen?
So, there would be long lasting consequences of the Doctor's actions.
David
@@davidaston5773 yeh the idea of time being personified is genius and its potential is untapped... I'm gonna make a doccy who knock off someday about a time travelling gun and time is gonna have its own whims in it coz that was such a good idea
I think the whole magic of the watcher is that we never really know who he was. It’s a secret kept by the Doctor and I kinda like it like that because it gives more of a shadowy aura around Tom Baker’s Doctor and to an extent Davison’s Doctor as they never truly explain to their companions who the Watcher was.
Indeed.
That’s the whole point of doctor who, the unanswered questions. It’s literally in the name of the show.
They make new things up about the doctor every season just how it is with fiction
I know who he is
bet you guys like hot bread.
The showrunner at the time of the 3rd Doctor was big into Buddhism and introduced many elements of that into the show. By the time of the 4th doctors regeneration I think the writers were just experimenting with making the process more 'mysterious'. That's always been my take on this. Personally I prefer your explanation, it makes way more sense. Excellent job.
Barry Letts was the producer with an interest in Buddhism during the 3 Doctor's time and he was also executive producer of Tom's last season so I think you've made a good observation.
Interesting.
it was a children's show episode dealing with entropy, death and using pure mathematics to to model the possible existence of a specific space-time event or piece of matter. In an 80's kids show!
I have always considered it Nathan-Turner's baby.🫣
@@purefoldnz3070 Doctor Who always has some adult-themed orientations, ever since the Hartnell Era. Moreso and notably during the second half of the Tom Baker Era.
I also always thought that the Watcher was why the Fifth Doctor was younger. He was an infusion of life force that caused the Doctor's new body to appear younger.
Not needed. The Second Doctor is clearly younger than the First (who unusually expires due to old age), and the Fourth younger than the Third - the Third being an artificially induced regeneration. Regeneration is also rejuvenation, fr th emost part.
@@richardgregory3684 Yeah, but, at the time he was the youngest actor to play the role and it caused something of a stir.
It just seemed a good way to explain the sudden apparent dip in physical age.
That gave me an interesting thought, maybe it's some kind of rare anomaly and the only reason the Doctor could even keep getting younger with each regeneration? Do we even know if timelords can normally regenerate as often and effectively as the Doctor has?
@@BierBart12 According to the original series they get 12 regneraions, 13 lives (regneraitons plus their original).
It seems to mostly go smoothly but a regeneration crisis can happen, from time to time. When they do they can use a Zero Room to aid them.
@@BierBart12 We do. Originally regeneration was limitted to 12 - it's generally a smooth process but the Doctor is significant in that his regenerations have all been prompted by something catastrophic - only the First Doctor regenerates through sheer age and frailty, and even that is largely prompted by the stress and effort involved in the Tenth Planet story. Romana, on the other hand, regenerates in a very causla manner in Destiny of the Daleks. There's no trauma and no recovery period. Castrovalca states that regeneration can produce problems and zero rooms helping, but of course, that could have been another fake entry by the Master...in NuWho we see Time Lords regenerate completely effortlessly
The watcher was essentially the doctor's next regeneration and he was measuring a police box to fix his broken chameleon circuit he wasn't making sure if it worked.
I have a fan theory. Before the 5th doctor regenerated in caves of androzani, he sees all his friends and the master around him. My theory is that before he became the sixth doctor, he astral projected himself through time and became the watcher. His appearance is a result of a bio perception filter effect, were he looks like he does because no one has seen him yet so he has no physical form. And with what was left of him, he warned 4, and protected Adric, Nyssa and Tegan before traveling with them, showing how far the 5th doctor will go to protect his friends.
That's an even sounder theory and make the fifth an even better hero! ❤
@@sumthingwikked4257 thanks
During the first 4 regenerations they all had different ways of changing the Doctor.
The second said after his first regeneration it was part of the TARDIS.
The next regeneration was forced by the Time Lords.
Third was assisted
Fourth was merged with his next incarnation.
I think the Watcher told the Doctor who he was and prepare for the worst would be him sacrificing and regenerating.
We don’t actually get a ‘natural’ regeneration until Davison
ironically, davison says "it feels different this time" as if he might actually die
@@dwfan91- Yes because he’s been badly effected and doesn’t think he’ll make it
But yes I think because it was the beginning of the natural regeneration
Ironically, even Davidson's 'natural' regeneration was underimplied from being not truly ordinary...
That might explain why his regeneration was the hardest to recover from.
@@kri249 Which one?
The Watcher was "extracted" from between the 4th and 5th Doctors in order to go back and warn his past self about the momentous universe-shattering events to come. The Valeyard in the 1986 story with Colin Baker is similar, but an "extracted" evil version instead of a good one.
Yes, just like Cho-je showed up to help Kan-po.
Or The Valeyard is just a male form of the 13th Doctor.
THANK YOU!! You’ve unlocked a core childhood memory with this video. For YEARS, I’ve been describing this character to people, and no one knows what I’m talking about. This is such a relief. Again, thank you!!
I watched this a kid and found the watcher appearing mid regeneration really scary.
As a Fourth Doctor fan, I'm game for any analysis tied to this era, particularly T. Baker's final season, which I find highly underrated, including "Logopolis," with its sense of melancholy and wonder, and an excellent, moody soundtrack, particularly the Watcher's Theme. I frankly prefer these calmer, more introspective regenerations in the early years. The fire stuff from the recent series is all fine and good, but it just lacks anything substantial for reflection. Even Patrick Troughton's comedic delaying tactics before the Time Lords zapped him into Jon Pertwee were charming and whimsical.
Agreed. Although they did explain why Time Lords do the whole “explosive Regeneration” thing in newer media. It was due to the Time Lords weaponizing Regeneration during the Time War. Sadly it was completely retconned, especially during the Timeless Child arc (which is of course controversial).
It did work well, though, when Master Jacobi regenerated into a roaring, raging John Simm.
We have to take for account that the Doctor's regenerations grew more violent as he aged and suffered trauma. Especially from the Ninth Doctor onward-- the first Doctor to die after swallowing whole the entirety of the *Time Vortex* converging the Heart of the TARDIS out of Bad Wolf's mouth and body.
@@AttakusZakus It's not that new. The Fifth Doctor died in a mildly explosive burst of iridescent light-- nowhere as violent as NuWho incarnations of the Doctor, but still _violent_ enough to have him brutally lord at Peri from staying a safe distance from him: *to the other edge of the TARDIS panel control room* .
The Sixth Doctor equally died in a burst of iridescent aura light fiering from his body.
The Seventh Doctor's "posthumous" regeneration had his corpse rapidly twitching, convulsing and morphing almost inhumanly as his body was leaking an electromagnetic force field of lightning arcs and lightning blasts that had the morgue he was laid in almost destroyed.
The Eighth Doctor's Sisterhood of Karn-assisted revived regeneration was pretty much similar to some of the regenerations passed through by his early incarnations, except that the light emitted by his body was so powerfully blinding that the mystic women had to cloak themselves out of it. Just to give you a reminder, the Sisterhood of Karn are from Gallifreyan race: they possess a variety of abilities, traits and powers in common with their mystico-genetically engineered Time Lords brethren, including their limited resilience to extreme light exposure... that "blinding light" for Gallifreyan standards would've done FAR much damage to the human eye, if not even worse.
The only addition they did to the Doctor's regenerations was that ever since the Ninth incarnation swallowed whole the Time Vortex out of Bad Wolf's body, each of his regenerations are *always exponentionally much explosive than the former.* He is not just leaking deadly amounts of bio-electrical energy or to fade from one form to another: he had some form of particle-wave energy reminiscent of both *Artron energy and Time Vortex energy* literally erupting out of his body.
@@AttakusZakusWe don't talk about the Timeless Child.
I absolutely adore 'The Watcher'. It's just a brilliantly mysterious idea brought to the lore and I feel people seem to hate on it not being explained. Whilst people seem to be okay with the very same idea being used in The End of Time. Personally I feel Timelord lore is way too explored and explained. So having something like this left this ambiguous is cool.
Personal head canon wise. I like the idea that because the universe is ending and by effect causing the future not to happen and the universe to change. So it's a bit head f*ck-y. But I like the idea that his future self from the version of the universe where it gets resolved was able to travel back in time to help make sure the future remains the same rather than entropy destroying everything.
But I also like how Planet of the Spiders sort of works as a pre-cursor to The Watcher. Very few people seem to point that out.
Too bad the Watcher became so underrated that... 'it' I think, almost became forgotten. I would love to see The Watcher returns again, on TV not in novelization. Maybe for the 14th Doctor or 15th Doctor in a few years, though I think the Watcher should have appeared for the 13th Doctor.
I've always thought of the Watcher as an intermediate stage between Drs 4 & 5. A regeneration that will not happen if the Master succeeds in his plan. The fourth Drs 'death' is hinted at in Logopolis. The Master's Tardis (disguised as a grandfather clock), has the time of 4 minutes to midnight on it's clock face. 4 minutes equals 4 episodes.
Sounds of The Drums incoming...
Thanks for this clarification. Ever since seeing this episode I had to come up with my own interpretation. I always thought the Watcher was the final regeneration past his thirteenth, since that's the limit of a Time lords regenerations. We saw how the Master deteriorated when he exceeded his limit and absorbed Tremas on Traaken, so I thought the Doctor must have exceeded his limit and instead of absorbing another person (because he would never do that) he fused with himself instead.
That was my interpretation up till now.
As a kid back in '81 seeing this character, he definitely gave me the creeps! & I just always assumed he was, as he literally appears to be at the end of Logopolis, the half-way stage between Doctors 4 & 5, who, in some kind of pre-destination paradox, must bring about the completion of his _own_ regeneration, also I think an interesting detail to note about the watcher are his hands, when we see him in close up operating the Tardis controls, he appears to have talons!
And while I don't know if it was intentional, like a nod to the watcher or just a coincidence, but when the 9th Doctor is regenerating, for the briefest few seconds, his head does bare a resemblance to the 'unformed' features of the watcher that are not unlike his appearance in Logopolis, it's when his head is back, eyes still closed, just before the familiar hair of the 10th Doctor literally sprouts from his head & his features finally form properly...well maybe, see what you think, around the 2:30 - 2:33 mark -
ua-cam.com/video/qa3NM9Jhkn0/v-deo.html
i always noticed that as well!
Love this video - My pet fan theory is 'the Watcher' is perhaps a projection of the Doctor comprehending his impending regeneration manifesting in the Doctor's realty. His understanding of it. Anyway, I like the explanation in this video.
Logopolis is the greatest example ever of something making no sense at all but working so well and being so great
0:02 I miss the thinner Tardis. The bigger bulker ones for room for the internal lights etc doesnt look as good.
Visually The Watcher has strong hints of three world mythology tropes. 1. A Mummy 2. The Angel of Death 3. A Crysalis. Given the Time Lords are regenerating time travellers it's quite possible one incarnation could act as Angel of Death to themselves. Mummification is used by cultures that think the physical body needs preserving for reuse in the after life. The Crysalis is often used as a symbol of rebirth and transformation.
Chrysalis - that's a terrific observation, you're dead right. I love this story.
He’s easily the most iconic.
He played the Doctor for seven years. The longest by far.
It's a future avatar. We already saw K’anpo Rimpoche had his future avatar, Cho-je. The Watcher may be less defined because of the entropy wave and circumstances of the 4th Doctor's demise.
Why should a Time Lord only exist as a single space/time event? :)
Hm.
I always figured this was the 4th Doctor from an alternate timeline in which he failed to save the universe because the situation in which he [would have] died he knew he wouldn't have regenerated, and so he hesitated. He then barely escaped back in time to tell his past self not to hesitate because if/when he falls, the two of them will merge, allowing him to regenerate after all.
There was actually a scrapped anniversary special in 1993 where the 7th Doctor was dead and an alien went back in time to prevent the 4th Doctor from ever regenerating at Logopolis, which would have been why he would have had an older appearance. I believe this was called The Dark Dimension
Basically it’s a physical manifestation of the next regeneration cause the 80’s was an odd time for the show with the bbc actively sabotaging Colin baker’s regeneration to them nearly cancelling the show after the 22nd season for example
The Watcher was meant to have appeared because the Fourth Doctor was supposed to have regenerated earlier. I'm pretty sure that idea came from a Doctor Who magazine interview with Christopher H. Bibmead many many years ago. As for Kanpo Rimpoche and Cho-Je, the conversation he and the Doctor have is interesting - The Doctor stole a TARDIS because 'he didn't have his power', suggesting that Kanpo/Cho-Je did not require a TARDIS to get about. This would explain his appearance in the Doctor's lab at UNIT HQ at the end.
I caught that last part! I was going to put it into the video but cut it for time. Not heard about that first part so I'll look into it because it sounds interesting
@@dwfan91- I wish I could remember when and where it was - It might have been an interview that coincided with the VHS release of Logopolis... which I believe was 1992. It stuck with me as I found the idea of the Doctor overshooting the point where he should have regenerated really interesting.
This story has intrigued me since I first saw it on PBS way back in 1981. Thank you for answering some questions I've had for decades. Excellent video.
Good description, I kind of saw the Watcher in much the same way as you described.
There was also another Watcher of sorts in the Big Finish audio, "The Wormery" where Iris Wildthyme's Watcher/Valeyard is the antagonist (leading to some hilarious dialog from Colin Baker's Doctor about how Iris just keeps ripping him off). And also the Dream Lord in Matt Smith's era (who is more or less implied to be the Valeyard). The Doctor can't quite escape his dark shadow.
Fabulous video and fabulous job explaining. I love how you used the evidence from Planet of the Spiders first, as it's what really explained it best initially. That is, beyond the wonderfully suggestive but still mysterious stuff in Logopolis. Worth remembering that Barry Letts co-wrote one story and then executive produced the next seven years later.
And then the audios and novelization are lovely additions. And isn't Trial of the Valeyard fun (and great)?
interesting! tho personally i take all tv stuff to be definitive canon and other stuff to be optional possibilities... idk, maybe the other media stuff happens in a parallel world or something. I feel like one day I'll come up with my own theory about the watcher, tho the explanation you provide is rly cool. I love how u call the valeyard a possible watcher too. that's genius
I also think on-screen is the definitive version and that we can pick and choose through the rest of the EU. it makes it more fun for me
Never been convinced by Logopolis (especially ep 4) but the Watcher is a great idea and it's a shame it was never used again.
This intity is part of the regeneration process. Basically it provides the energy and biological matrix superstructure needed for the Doctor to regenerate. In Tom Bakers case when he fell from the scaffolding this intity suddenly came to him and started the energy transition process, but they later changed this to be just the bright color effects used for the A/B roll transition from one actors face to the next actor. In David's regeneration to the 14th doctor, they even changed it again because he was suddenly wearing his old suite as well, and not what Jamie had just been wearing which is traditional for the show. I think David has enough humor attitude to have handled regeneration from the Lady doctor in her old cloths, and then just went and changed out of them, but they didn't give him a chance to play that scene out. I hope that helps, and stay safe. Great videos by the way. Someone should give u a show about all this on BBC One.
Ok, so I don't know Jack about Dr. Who, but this caught my attention. Just the concept of a mysterious white figure standing and watching throughout the show sounds soooo cool
He's just standing There...Menacingly!
There’s something really creepy about the way the watcher is sort of just in the backround
Thanks for the video. It brought a lot of memories for a 14-year-old watching the Doctor Who Marathon. On public television out of New Hampshire. And I have passed the memories to my two sons. And my daughters and now my grandchildren love classic doctor who. They also love the Batman Animated Series too. And too bad Kevin Conroy has passed on. I wish they would have done an aminated 6 episode of Doctor Who/Justice League. Ending with Batman Beyond.
Sven from the United States
thank you for the kind comment, rest in peace kevin conroy
this was such a well made video, please make more, also u need way more subs! your quality of vids is amazing
Thank you!
Terrible to see this video with only 75 views. You deserve much more praise, this is brilliant
thank you so much!
it's got a little more now (:
@@coolninjaz567 you don't say 😆
Yea
Love Tom Baker's expression upon seeing The Watcher.
Hello - new sub to your channel. Found you via a Reddit post asking for the watcher to be explained.
I have never watched old-who and probably won’t, but I have spent way too long on the various wikis piecing together the canon for myself. This was hugely helpful.
Please make a video on the valeyard!
I'll put it on the list! also, can you link me the post
It was "finally revealed" until the next time someone writes a Watcher story and changes it.
True!
Now imagine if they never explained this character, and had it just continue to show up in the background for the entire show?
Finally a video about it, this one regeneration always bugged me because it was the only time it ever happened like this with the Doctor.
It would have been a great idea if the final regeneration of the Doctor was the guy controlling things in the background -- you know, flying the TARDIS when he didn't have any control. He could have been the reason why the Doctor knows he'll survive. Also, I think they should have killed off the Doctor and replaced him with his son, or grandson, or his granddaughter Barbara's son kind of thing. Like, let him inherit the TARDIS.
At any rate, the final regeneration of the Doctor should have been "the Watcher" to explain things like the Valeyard. Like maybe the Valeyard was the consequence of violating too many times rules, such as meeting himself too many times.
interesting concepts
To me, the Watcher was the Doctor's Death, in the same manner that Death was Orpheus's Death in orphic myths and modern reiterations. An avatar of the Doctor's future fifth incarnation and embodied regeneration cycle midlife crisis of sorts. We have to realise that, by the time of Fourth Doctor's incoming tenure, the Renegade Time Lord only had nine more regenerations left...
A Timelord maybe can create an alter-ego with some time like the Watcher, the Valeyard or the Dreamlord for the Doctor I guess... 🤔
"It is the end, but the moment has been prepared for." "The Watcher, so he was the Doctor all the time."
It's not his best but Logopolis is so good. I loved it because of all the TARDIS scenes in episode one, the Doctor and Adric seeming to walk through lots of TARDIS corridors.
In Buddhism there is the idea of a ‘Tulpa,’ which is a projected other self, almost like an imaginary friend that has its own will and personality (David Lynch uses this idea a lot in Twin Peaks), and this would fit with the idea of the Watcher maybe?
To be fair, having a Tulpa as a backup battery is a contingency plan I can definitely see The Doctor creating.
My theory is that the Watcher is the Doctor's dying final incarnation travelling back in time to a point where he knows he's needed to ensure his past self survived.
Watchers have even appeared for other Time Lords as well.
It’s like probability personified, a temporally paradoxical handshake, or a Kissogram from Death!
I've always viewed the Watcher as the Doctor's version of putting a post-it-note on the fridge reminding him to buy milk -- except in reverse! There's a lot of in-story hints in _Logopolis_ that the Watcher is *a version* of the Doctor -- the Watcher is able to pilot the TARDIS (and does it better than the current incarnation, LOL), seems to know both Nyssa and Adric and even fetches Nyssa from Traken. Thematically the Watcher character is also a counterpoint to the decayed and emaciated version of the Master from the previous story who merges with a host body in almost the same way the Watcher does with the Doctor. The decayed Master is the past, clawing it's way into the present in any way it can (in _The Deadly Assassain_ he even says "only my hate keeps me alive") while the Watcher is a possible future manifesting itself by reminding the Doctor that a sacrifice has to be made in the present ("It's the end, but the moment has been prepared for").
I always thought The Watcher's appearance was a reference to 'Terror of the Autons', as the Autons had sort of a similar look, introduced the Master (who the Doctor forms a temporary truce with in both), and a radio telescope is a major location.
I love the watcher, he's so creepy.
After many times of seeing this video in my recommended, I've finally clicked and this was one hell of a confusing yet interesting watch.
thank you🫡
We are the watcher.
When they wrote and planned this I don't think they expected some 40+ years later we would be able to painstakingly analyst this frame by frame.
It's hardly an unsolved mystery. Everyone knows The Watcher is the Doctor's future self, and that's been known for about 50 years
always wondered about the watcher since it first aied. great work . subbed.
Thank you so much!
I know: He is the Who in Doctor Who.
As a 5 year old kid I always wondered why everyone calls the Doctor "Doctor" when the series is called Doctor Who.
What if the Doctor is Doctor and the Watcher is Who?
And together they're Doctor Who. So, basically he is the Doctor, but only the part that isn't the Doctor. Maybe his regeneration energy.
nah
It was Sam Beckett. He went back in time via the "Quantum Leap" program to help the Doctor regenerate. Unfortunately because the Doctor was not human, the Doctor's body rejected Sam's attempts to fuse his consciousness with the Doctor's body and stop the Master, and instead Sam appeared as a disembodied humanoid. In the end the Doctor recognised Sam, and together the Doctor accepted Sam, assimilated Sam into his body and helped the Doctor charge up regeneration energy, and regenerated into the Fifth.
"Oh boy, I'm an alien."
Man I remember when this video had only 500 views ... I'm so happy you've blown up!! ❤🎉
1st time visitor, well thought out and well presented, i've just subscribed.
I remember watching Logopolis, it seemed to make sense to me at the time. There is only one doctor. This is the true essence of each regeneration of our doctor.
The religious analogy would be simply to say that the Watcher is soul of the doctor, which remains the same in each regeneration.
love watching new creators blow up
The response "Wot?" seems to be pretty normal for seeing most of the weird, basically unexplained stuff in Doctor Who lol
The Doctor’s conversation away from his companions with the watcher in Logopolis reminds me of the secret conversation Aslan had with the White Witch away from the Pevensie children right before Aslan’s slaughter and rebirth in The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. It doesn’t make sense, but the mysteriousness of it all is fascinating.
I always loved that creepy shot of the Watcher in a field. Brilliant.
I first saw this when I was ten with my old man. As a child I didn'tunderstand who The Watcher was because they didn't really explain it, so I asked him. My old man didn't know either, but he *did* recognize that at that point in time Baker was the longest running doctor so he's all "A timelord doesn't get older on the outside like we do, but they age on the inside just like us and so only live about a hundred years or so before they die."
At this point I stop my old man to point out that timelords can regenerate, so he's all like "Yes, but they change their bodies when they regenerate and have to do it *before* they die, so when they're about to die The Watcher comes out of them as a warning need to regenerate before they die. The Doctor could have gotten away because he's The Doctor and way smarter than The Master, but he allowed himself to fall and regenerate so The Watcher merged back into him just in case they're needed again in the future."
The fact that we got shorter runs of subsequent doctors and I never really saw The Watcher again more or less "verified" the explanation in my childhood brain, The Doctor wasn't going to cut it so close and was choosing to regenerate early before the Watcher had to remind him to do it so he wouldn't die die.
thats awesome
love that they ended one long held mystery before immediately starting another with the valeyard lmao
THIS is a construct of the Time Lords, sent out ahead of the 4th Doctor’s regeneration, to catch his incarnation during regeneration. As the 5th Doctor is sitting up beneath the radio telescope, the 4th Doctor was waking up in a London back alley, in a human body, ready to fight the monsters on earth for the rest of the 20th century.
We met him in the 50th anniversary movie; as the Curator.
Great video. I'd love to know who the nightmare child from the time war is. It just sounded so evil. Logopolis was class great ending to his run .
Super video, very well done. You’ll be a time lord before you know it. 😊
The watcher was a body replacement for Tom (4th Doctor) as he was given a gift from the universe, after his time as the Doctor ended, his gift was to be the archivist/care taker of a trove of VERY powerful artifacts from points in space & time. You are given hints about this & are shown Tom, in that role, during the Zygote? Invasion of 20th century Earth. I think it was during the 10th or 11th Regeneration.
This must be where J.J. Abrahams got the idea for his various mystery characters with poorly thought out anticlimactic origin stories.
Scarier than all of the Doctor's enemies rolled into one!
Honestly that was mad interesting, I've only seen like three episodes of the show but I was enthralled
why did i click on this. havent watched doctor who in a decade at least, now its all im gonna be doing for the next couple weeks lol
My older brother was a huge Dr Who fan and sometimes I'd watch it with him. I remember first seeing The Watcher and he always scares me.
The watcher is a projection of the 5th Doctor in an embryonic state.
Thanks for the information, I always wondered who the Watcher was in a more specific way
Glad to see this topic, as I remember the watcher giving me chills when I was kid watching it for the first time, back in 1980. Funny how they never re-used the creepy image. For me, I always thought that the Watcher was in fact, a physical manifestation of the Tardis, which we were told, was sentient - hence the Cloister Bell, warning the Doctor of his fate....
Am I off the course? Too left-field..?
That certainly fits with the idea that the TARDIS is an important element of regeneration.
I doubt so. It has been inferred very early on in Classic Who that the TARDIS is female and tend to "communicate" somehow with the Doctor - and, on very rare instances, with a few of his human female companions - as such.
At one instance, the Fourth Doctor referred to the Tardis as a beautiful lady in front of Lady Romana.
Even in the First Season back to 1963, the very first time we had hints that implied aboht the TARDIS being none only sentient but _female-aligned_ , after the time machine began to try possessing the Time Lord's granddaughter Susan and to subconsciously influence Barbara Wright on an intuitive level into persuading the Doctor to correct the travel parameters mid-temporal implosion/time loop before the TARDIS blow up them all along the solar system for good. In the expanded Classical Who lore, multiple incarnations of the Doctor began to refer to the TARDIS as a female being and 'Faction Paradox' inferred that all TARDISes are female with the Matrix as their "mother" .
@@ptolemeeselenion1542 wow...lot of new stuff for me to digest there, you really know your subject well. Thanks for the info, fascinating stuff.
A good way to think of the watcher is that he’s like the opposite of an echo. Rather than ripples caused by something in the past, he’s a ripple of the future - a ripple of the next doctor and a potential future rippling backwards through time.
I like to believe, The watcher basically oversees all the parallel dimensions the doctor travels to similar to MCU watcher, but without all the extra powers lol
My personal opinion is that after the doctor runs out of regenerations he has one final ghostly version remaining that follows him around trying to see a way to change its fate, that or just reliving old memories/experiences
He's just standing there... MENACINGLY
Everyone asking Who’s the watcher? What’s the watcher? But no one ever asks How’s the watcher
A month-old video from a creator with the default youtube profile picture about Doctor Who. I'm in for a treat!
Might be a future Doctor at the end of time reliving his old adventures
“The watcher was the doctor all along” thats the best answer we can get
We first saw a watcher in planet of the spiders in the form of cho he a Buddhist monk,future incarnation of kanpo rinpoche.The valeyard is a watcher,created by the time lords,taken from between the doctors twelfth and thirteenth incarnations of his first regeneration cycle,so between doctors ten and eleven.The watcher we see in logopolis was subconsciously brought into being by the doctor who has known he was going to die
for a long time prior to this story.He did not have the power to bring his future incarnation into full form unlike kanpo who gave cho he full form.
Great vid as always
The fact that ive never watched doctor who and still im watching this video means something
I’m not familiar with Dr. Who, but I remember when I was a kid that image of the Watcher floating around in creepy Facebook and Instagram pages, supposedly the last photograph taken by a man before his murder in the ‘70’s. It used to creep me out so much so finding out it’s from Dr. Who, of all places, makes me feel so embarrassed.
Why was I so gullible?? 😭😭😭
Maybe he was appalled at the state of Baker's TARDIS!
The Tardis prop was pretty much falling apart at this point but it would have cost 45 pounds to build a new one. BBC doesn't have that kind of money.
I hope the Watcher returns in the Tennant specials
never watched the show but thx for the explanation of the thing i dont know btw good vid tbh
I think "watchers" are a good way of explaining away any potential bootstrap paradoxes caused by time travel shenanigans.
If the watcher is some kind of "alternate universe" version of the doctor and other time lords, one that comes from a timeline where that individual fails and dies as a result of their actions, it creates a third party that allows for the cycle to actually begin within the new timeline
To use the Beethoven example: when asking the question "who really wrote beethoven's fifth?" The answer now becomes "the watcher".
In hindsight, I wonder if this was a similar phenomenon to bigeneration. The future of the Doctor echoing back in time and affecting his present. Only it's not as intense as the synchronization the 14th and 15th Doctor went through, so it's more of a ghostly presence
The combination of no channel picture and the watcher as the thumbnail makes this video fell cursed before clicking
From what I remember the 4th doctor was well past his next regeneration and the Watcher was a forced future regeneration brought on by the 4th's reluctance to move on effecting the time line. As both couldn't occupy the same body/identity at once the Watcher became a phantom of sorts waiting for it's time to become the next Doctor.