Dolby Atmos - Should You Wait
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- Опубліковано 8 кві 2023
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Colt Capperrune said the top head of Warner Chappell in Nashville (Guy Moot) communicated to all management and staff that Apple requires Atmos. He claims it was an “inside baseball” conversation, which makes it sound dirty, although they’re denying Colts claim they communicated that message. In the same video Colt did say Sweetwater helped him get into an Atmos class in exchange for promoting that Sweetwater has Atmos studios. I don’t think any full-time/pro folks took his click bait seriously. We all know Atmos is coming and the listener experience will vary across different headphone, soundbars, bluetooth speakers, cars, with a varying degree of experience where some will be noticeable Atmos mixes while others are splitting hairs compared to stereo given the speaker setup. As Andrew Schepps said, labels want an Atmos mix on a stereo budget.
I’m ready to get everyone in a room and do a new video on the topic… One of my clients management teams is who informed me. They didn’t say it came from Guy directly, but said it came from someone high up at Warner Chappell. I then reached out to two other A list mixers, both of them told me it’s completely unofficial, but definitely what is happening. Without trying to get someone at Warner Chappell on camera, I felt I did the best I could at making sure this was a legit before I discussing it publicly. And at the time had no reason to think I shouldn’t make those videos. Those two videos started a shit storm I could not have foreseen. Which is a shame because I’m just trying to keep people ahead of the curve. Even multiple people at Dolby music clipped, and shared my video.
@@ColtCapperrune Bro 🤦🏻♂️ You knew what you were doing. Let’s not pretend.
@@marklholloway I didn’t get that vibe. I got the vibe that in Colt’s first video on the topic, he was just excited about his new plans for his studio. In the second video it seems that he saw the reaction from the comments from the first video and realised he’d opened a whole can of worms and had to address it.
@@Funkybassuk Sorry you took the bait ☠️ Colt outsmarted all y’all who fell for ‘Why is Apple forcing Atmos on us??!!’ 👏👏👏 If it was true, as he stated ‘It came out, as of February 1st, you won’t get playlisted on Apple without an Atmos mix’ but ‘some people are reporting they are still being listed’ then UA-cam would have exploded with videos talking about this. What I disagree with is Colt pinning it on the head of Warner Chappell Nashvile as the source who shared this information to all the WC management and labels. That’s putting words in someone’s mouth, someone who’s way above his pay grade. Not cool 🪦 As Barry mentioned, he’s also incentivized by Sweetwater, promoting their Atmos studio in exchange for getting a seat in the Atmos class. He needs to grow views, subscribers, likes, affiliate links, to maintain sponsorship, and there are those who will do what it takes. I respect Barry for not selling out and keeping it real.
Atmos is the musical equivalent of Scientology.
Atmos is a marketing gimmick.
Get good headphones or IEMs, do the mix through the binaural renderer. Or just do a stereo mix and use the atmos authoring tools to print it as the 2.0 bed of an ADM file. Congrats, you just made a 100% valid atmos mix.
And volia. Just hacked the system. For normal music thats the way.
@@ramonmargarett3923 i mean...even if you're delivering in atmos, who's to say that your artistic vision wasn't a stereo presentation?
Speaking as a home-based creator AND consumer, atmos is a sales industry pipe dream. I’ve been consistently expressive of my disinterest in reinvesting, as have others. Who would I even be mixing atmos for? Basically no music listeners will have atmos systems, and I’m not doing cinematic sound design.
Atmos will never be mainstream for a public that listens on buds and phones. This is simply the industry taking control back for the big boys and squeezing out the creators. Atmos folded down to stereo is stereo. Don't believe them when they say it sounds better than stereo. It can't. Listen, Atmos is nothing new. Just a bigger surround. Its not industry changing, sound changing, music changing or anything else. A shit song is still a shit song, and a great bootleg is killer. Quad didn't work for them. Surround is cool if you sit in the middle. Atmos is a waste of money. And the "spatial" algos they put on our devices sound like smeared crap. Just saying it plain is all.
Well said mate.
@@angermanagementstudios Love the name of your studio!
@@GregoryStephenSchumacher Thanks man!
True. In the real world you can be happy if people still have a stereo system. In many homes it will fail because a system with more than 2 speakers is simply not wife compatible. You don't even want to know how many of my friends have to be content with a mono Bluetooth speaker.
Exactly my feelings - nailed it! Literally no one asked for Atmos. We have two ears - we listen to the world in stereo, it's as simple as that.
The first time I heard atmos on headphones was like 2 days ago. On headphones 98% of what I heard sounded like shit compared to their stereo counterpart, the other 2% sounded just ok. Headphones is where most people will continue to listen to music, this is just sad that the industry is pushing this. I have the space and the possibility to make atmos in the near future if I don’t have a choice, but wow this shit pisses me off.
I agree 100% with you. I have had the exact same observations and experience listening to the songs released in ATMOS with Headphones. It sounds like garbage. I have no doubt in my mind that it probably sounds amazing in an actual ATMOS room when the song was actually mixed in a legit ATMOS room. But Spatial audio attempting to make ATMOS in headphones and then engineers creating ATMOS mixes with headphones is not going to add any value to the listening experience. It just seems so gimmicky.
This. I fully agree and what worries me is that there is so much money pumped into this that we may not be able to back out of it and we end up with no choice but listening to half-assed stereo mixdowns of an Atmos mix. Tidal at least has the courtesy to clearly separate stereo and Atmos versions which is how I hope things remain. Now, I've started to add on full discrete Atmos capability to my stereo mixing studio for under $1000 which is an experiment to see if it can be done. I think discrete spatial audio is really cool but the binaural rendering is very underwhelming to me. If this isn't significantly improved, I could see consumers not choosing it, especially if they have to pay a premium for it, and then the format is dead in the water. That's unfortunate because the experience could be very cool if the binaural algorithms are improved but that may take a while. Anyway, time will tell, if your curious, it's possible to get your feet wet in Atmos at a pretty low cost. I'd be a bit careful of judging Atmos by the binaural rendering though. And as the video here states, I don't think you necessarily have to care about it as a small time producer, certainly not in the short term. My 2c.
To make Atmos worth it, you really have to record it with Atmos in mind for me.
A lot of Atmos mixes sound like they just pan a few random things to the back channels and slap a surround reverb on it and calling it a day.
Especially on headphones this sounds poorly
headphone where you better be mixing at too buy some hedd for $1800 mix it
@@DaveZNoisebox Atmos sounds incredible on a well designed sound system, when the songs are mixed well and taking full advantage of surround’s creative potential. I recently purchased a Sonos Arc and two Sonos ERA 300s for rear and it’s like a night and day difference vs listening to the same Atmos tracks on headphones, Apple Homepods or anything without distinct rear channels.
I think anyone would see the appeal after listening to a stereo track on my Adam A7X or Senn HD600s - then comparing the Atmos version of the track on my Sonos setup. (The atmos mix of Fleetwood Mac: Dreams, Elton John: Rocket Man are excellent showcases)
I’m not investing any more money in speakers, cabling and everything else that comes with atmos. Fuck it. It infuriates me to even think about spending more money on my studio. I finally have mine to where I want it after all these years of hard work.
It’s already a terrible business model as is for studio owners and musicians. Just think, all the money we spend on hardware, software, instruments and gear. And at the end of the day the artist makes a fraction of a penny for a steam of their song. Not even a cent for a play on Spotify etc. something has to change.
People used to love listening to Beatles through one speaker. If Atmos makes my music sound like the Beatles I am all for it.
Here's the thing. If everyone is recording and mixing in stereo, places like Sweetwater will sell you a pair of Focal Trio6's for $6K. But with Dolby Atmos, they will sell you 7.1.4 Focal speakers for $25K. "You MUST have it, because Apple and Spotify says so. Oh, and you have to be able to calibrate your speakers, so you have to spend another $8K and you need an interface with at least 16 outputs, as 8 outputs isn't enough". We have to spend a minimum of (I understand some people are smarter than others and will find more cost affective ways of doing it) $37K just get our foot in the sandbox to play with everyone else. Not all innovations are good. Especially if they force it on you.
Exactly
For about the past 2 seeks I've been doing some extensive research on Dolby Atmos. It was all because of a video of another UA-camr that spoke about the announcement of Apple Music no longer play-listing your music unless its in Dolby Atmos. This got me thinking a lot, which led me to my research.
I definitely think Atmos is something that's gonna be quite different and it'll take a few years for it to be here for good. I'm praying the technology upgrades especially for headphones because I can personally say that listening to music in Spatial Audio sounds worse then regular stereo(in my opinion). And I'm sure your average consumer of music will think the same. A lot of music in Spatial Audio just sounds like everything is in a short reverb(small room) and you don't get the full benefits of multiple speakers around you.
I also don't think stereo will and should go away for Dolby Atmos to completely take over. Atmos is great for having the speaker set up, movie theaters, cars with Dolby Atmos, and hopefully it improves in headphones. But would this mean any other way we listen to music has to be in Atmos too? I can imagine radio stations to start transmitting in Atmos but will venues have to do the same? Will a DJ have to bring multiple speakers to a wedding just to have the Dolby experience? Clubs? Churches? Even live shows, I think stereo will have to stick around for those. These have been my thoughts during my research lol
What I find interesting is we've already been down this road before. Does anybody remember quadraphonic? I had such a player in my truck back in the 70's. There were several albums released in this format but it died out. I don't think Atmos will die out this time.
Yea a mom working at Mc Donalds with 4 kids will run out and buy an Atmos system to listen to music ranging from thousands, or those ear buds at walmart on her phone. 🙄🙄🙄😬🤦🏾♂️
@@Allious131 what a stupid response.
My hippie parents had a dope quad system and used to spin a lot of Simon and Garfunkel, Roberta Flack, and Pink Floyd at their epic fondue parties.
@@Allious131 She has 4 kids - she already got "quadraphonic"!
Dolby used a 2 pronged approach for Atmos music.
1) content - they struck a deal with Universal Music.
2) electronic manufacturers - Samsung, LG, Sony, etc.
Many people are going to use Dear VR to simulate 7.1.4
The "be suspicious of sponsored videos" thing is silly. Sweetwater sponsors most of my videos. You see me posting Atmos content? A better rule is "use good judgment and critical thinking when watching creaators online, sponsored or not (especially if it's just someone's opinions)" I tend to like content that shows how to do something, what something sounds like, or actually seeing a product in use so viewers can come to their own conclusions. People are smarter than you think.
Andrew, sorry if it hit a nerve, for what it’s worth I happen to like your channel. That said, if it were actually as you said, you wouldn’t have needed to post what you did at all.
The world is a big place, full of people of different ages, and different experiences along their journey of learning all of this. I would never presume to think about where somebody is in all of this, and what they see a common knowledge or not. They can choose themselves, whether to pay attention or not.
So I’m going to keep advising them the way I think I can to best help them. I do think, no, I know, people have to be suspicious of channel sponsored by music stores. I’m sorry, but I’ve been in business for a very long time at a high-level, I know exactly how these things work. I don’t make my living from Music, but I have been passionate about it for the vast majority of my life.
If they have never influenced you, then I’m proud of you, and I honestly mean that. Not that that should matter to you.
But you and I both know that’s not always the case, and that should as well be common knowledge as well. I get way more comments thanking me for posting things like this and very few from your perspective.
The thing with my channel, is, I could really care less how much it grows. The only reason I want it to grow is to help people. I don’t need the money, I don’t need any of it. I work a full-time job working 60 hours a week, I haven’t taken a day off in over seven months. If I’m not working, I’m working on UA-cam, or I’m working on my woodworking passion as well.
The number one comment I get from my viewers, is, I’m not like anybody else, because I’m honest, I’m sincere, and I’m not affected by any outside sources.
This is true, actually, if I ever were impacted by someone else, be it a business, or anything else, I would shut my channel down in a second. End of story.
@@BarryJohns it’s ok Barry this guy Andrew definitely thought this video fit in that category.The sweetwater sponsor is all you need to know he’s just one of the biggest meat riders on atmos till date!
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your takes on the industry happenings. I HATE when companies use fear mongering to sway people into buying or upgrading gear. 😮💨😮💨😮💨
Thanks Barry! I like your perspective on this. I’m 48 and have been through most of the tech changes you’re talking about. My grandparents had the 8 track player that looked like a piece very nice furniture! I’ll admit that when I saw other channels talking about this I was skeptical. When the day comes for me to switch I may start with headphones. Great talk.
The problem i have with Atmos is that there is no way to have a dry mono sound. And no way to get rid of that artificial room reverb. As a mixer, I like to create contrast, and that's limiting.
If it catches on, it will be because of the headphone version and cars adapting it. The headphone version is supposed to simulate binaural audio. Like the dummy head with realistic molded ears with microphones in them. But there doesn't seem to be a way to make close dry sounds. Look up the binaural haircut here on yt for example and listen with headphones. When Atmos gets that good, maybe I'll be on board, but right now I think it's great for movies and shows, but kind of a gimmick for music.
In movies, surround isn't used 100% of the time. It's only for effect to give more information about what's happening off screen. If it was used too much, it would be distracting.
For music, it's kind of the same way. We still expect the important things, vocals, kick, snare, to be center. And less important things to be planned out to create contrast. But where exactly things get panned or placed isn't as critical as it is with a movie for it to be believable and for you to be immersed.
For a movie, when the airplane sounds like it's above us, we go "wow that's so realistic and amazing". And since we expect that airplane to be above us, it's easier for our brain to interpret the sound that way. For a song, if a synth part is placed above us, we might think it's cool, but there isn't the same wow factor and level of immersion like there is for movies. It's a bit unnecessary. And considering where most people listen to music, it seems even more unnecessary.
For movies, it helps to tell the story better. But for music, unless someone writes a cheesy song about things being panned all over, it doesn't necessarily add anything to enhance the songwriting.
Well said.
I agree 100%.
Werd
Technically you can set all objects to speaker snap in the DAW panner and all binaural render modes to off in the Dolby Atmos Renderer. The problem with this approach is often the ADM master is rejected for either lacking binaural modes or them all being the same (depends on label I believe). Really what is 'desperately' needed is to be able to have the anechoic HRTF without 'having' to apply Dolby's rather naff sounding near/mid/far reverb room model. I think only Dolby & MPEG-H enforce a reverb with their binaural representation. Apple Spatial is even worse because it ignores all binaural modes and applies their own blanket middle size room to everything.
I think I speak for most when I say this was another great video, we appreciate all your efforts to teach and make us laugh brother, you are loved by the community for your honesty and personality, thankyou❤️
Thank you Barry, very important message
I really appreciate you putting this into perspective in a practical sense.
Very very very true words!!
I seriously doubt that Atmos will ever become the standard for music. It is rare to find a home with a decent 2-speaker sound-system. Believing that the music-consumer will ever care for Atmos is a pipe dream. If anything, the listening experience is moving backwards.
Exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you.
Just like Quad music Dolby Atmos will never take the home market for music only. Most people listen to their music in cars, on ear buds or headphones from their phone. Sitting in a home theater with a Dolby Atmos system setup to listen to music will be a rare event. The system simply has no benefit for just plain music. Now for a Blu-ray concert maybe but I really, even the tech we have now with 7.1 surround sound is more than adequate. Does some extra sound coming from the ceiling for a music show really add anything, I think not. For music, it is a solution for a non-existent problem.
Great perspective. We still don't have 4k broadcast TV out of Chicago. UA-cam tv 4k is really a pretty recent development too.
The consumer level market doesn’t care. Most consumers listen on some version of EarPods or on a smart device.
I love your pragmatism, Barry. Your experienced take on this stuff is very much appreciated! I’m an old dog too, but this time, I think I want to be one of the first ones on my block to take the step up, primarily to get the learning curve out of the way. There was a time when I was proud to say I’m only an analog guy”-and it did not fare well for me. I found out the hard way, that you’re either making dust, or eating dust- and I don’t want to eat dust anymore, lol.
Go do it brother!
I survived the quadrophonic scare back in the day.
And certainly not sure about this format either.
If I go see a concert the music/vocals normally come from the front left, front right and center.
I don’t hear any instruments or vocals coming from above left, above right, directly overhead or from the back.
Atmos could certainly apply to audio for film or video as to enhance the visual.
Just not seeing it for music production. Why do I want drums coming out of left field, fly overhead and land somewhere else? Yes I’m exaggerating a bit.
Yeah I know….I’m a downer.
But I think AI might be able to figure something unimaginable from it...but that remains to be seen.
If anyone cares: I'm tooling up for Atmos over the course of 2023 to offer it as a service in 2024. I'm doing it for compatibility but beyond that I don't currently care about it. The music I work on is not typically on the radar enough to garner Apple Music Playlisting. Also... Apple Music can take a long walk off a short pier. I thinks i's really important to have realistic goals about the reach of the music you're working on and design your studio services around that.
10 years everywhere
Ok either you can mix and master or you can't. If you need a pitch corrector or you can sing. Sweetwater is changing their name to quagmire. To have the audacity to demand what I have to purchase and produce
besides talent is a real highendness maneuver. Stick it up your ATMOS Sweetwater. Love ya Barry
Hi Barry, thank for the video. Car manufacturers still put tape decks in to cars until 2006 FYI. It took approximately +-24 years as cds were first introduced in 1982.
Plus, from the time they have purchased that car with a tape deck, it will be even longer before they invest in a newer model that doesn't.
Atmos and Spacial is super exciting to me.
Thanks for bringing some balance to this topic! I've often wondered if just mixing with headphones in 'spatial' would be a good idea, since I'd guess that most people will likely consume it on earbuds/headphones or perhaps enhanced sound bars etc, but certainly it would be unlikely for many people to have full blown multi channel Atmos setups in their houses, and if that's the case would having the physical speaker setup make much sense?
Dolby Atmos is just a way to push the home studio producers out. It’s an industry play. Virtually no one is going have this capability at home. It’s also not necessary for music, but oh well.
I 100% agree. And without 15 speakers it's algo spatial smearing sounds like shit and nothing will change that. Humans have 2 ears. No one remembers quad for a reason.
Agreed. Industry trying to squash the little man.
@@drwmedia It will fail some years from now they want home studios gone so bad but that would never happen actually it's dam near impossible and they know that but it's ok it will crush them and make them non existent, they are just digging that hole but the shovel can only go so deep.
It's also a way to sell all the old songs all over again.
Dolby Atmos itself is not going to “push home producers out”, it’s just an audio format, not unlike the many other audio formats that have come along over the years.
It’s the various music streaming and download services that have either started requiring music to be mixed in Dolby Atmos, or those that plan to implement it as a requirement in the future, that will have an effect on home studios…to what degree remains to be seen, as the cost of setting up a studio with the necessary gear and software for Atmos at this point is pricey, but, like any other technology, the cost will diminish over time.
When CD’s first came out, no studios, not even the big professional ones, were able to burn music to compact discs.
Over time, the software and hardware to do that became available, and in the beginning, only the big studios had the money to invest in it.
But eventually, the cost came down, and became affordable to smaller studios, who jumped on board, and ultimately, the hardware and software became so cheap and so widely available that write-able CD drives were built into almost every new computer, and it got to where anyone and everyone with a computer was able to burn audio and data to CD’s right in their living rooms.
My hunch is that just a couple years from now, the software and hardware necessary to create Dolby Atmos mixes will be in a wide array of studios, both in pro commercial level facilities and in small home studios alike, as technology makes it more accessible and affordable.
Great content as always, Barry 🎶
Thank you for this extremely wise and well-balanced approach. You're not denying the inevitability of spatial audio, but not fear mongering either.
My first thought when all this atmos talk came out was just like you: the bulk of atmos mixing won't be done with multi-thousand dollar monitoring setups. It will be done through headphones/emulation.
I engineer for a label that acquires and restores a lot of vintage music and licenses it to film and TV. This has been our bread and butter, and there has been zero conversation from music supervisors and production companies requiring anything other than stereo mixes (at least for now). We're keeping an eye out, but not rushing to atmos yet. This is obviously just one portion of the industry.
Atamosphere
I see Cubase running over there 🎉
As a studio owner working with independent artists I am livid about the whole thing. As far as I know, spatial audio streams aren't paying artists more per stream. As a studio owner that will have to invest in a new monitoring system, how do I charge more to pay for it if the artists aren't getting compensated proportionately? If I want to remain competitive I have two options: Upgrade to spatial audio mixing capability and eat it so artists can continue to make competitive records. Or: upgrade to spatial audio mixing and charge accordingly and now my clients have to pay more to make the same payout per stream as a stereo mix. Either way, someone at the beginning of the chain is getting screwed over. All of this so Apple can market a product that's being paid for my everyone else but them. They've got hundreds of billions in cash, maybe they should do what the government did to entice electric car adoptions and off studios purchasing new macs some kind of rebate on a spatial audio mixing systems with all money they have to grease the wheels. That would launch the transition to spatial audio with some real power. Even I would buy a mac to do that.
Owning my business i like to prepare for new things and i would say learn more about it and see how it can enhance your customer base befor you heavly invest but for now knowledge is king no one knows the future so its best to prepare as much as possible.😊
... I still have an audio DVD, came with an Audigy sound package. It's around there, sounds great and haven't seen another one since early 2000s when I got it ...
I have been fascinated by the future potential of eventually moving Atmos into the club environment with the electronic music industry. The technology (be it Dolby or something else) being able to playback spatial audio to create more immersion in a live dj performance. I plan on taking the Atmos certification through my college at the end of the year. Even if it doesn’t go anywhere more anytime soon in the music industry, I think it’ll be good knowledge in my back pocket. Experimenting with personal projects will be fun.
I guess a lot of it will come down to the consumer in the end. Yes we have streaming music now, but people are still listening to MP3's, Vinyl, and CD's. Think of the different medias that were hyped in between all that. Blu-ray was seen near the beginning of it's release as a better format for music. Then you had 5.1, then 7.1, but they seem almost relegated to watching movies. You have to keep in mind something else might come along that works better or more accepted. You have to ask how many people are going to care about the sound quality outside the existing formats. Just something's to consider. I agree we should all wait.
Here’s what we all need to do. Just mix atmos on headphones. Use what you already have… because that is EXACTLY what the consumer is going to do. DO NOT spend the cash to buy 15 speakers to make a mix that no other person than you will ever hear. Most people will listen on headphones…probably air pods, so if you want to invest in atmos, invest in a pair of airpods and mix on those. If it sounds good on those than it will sound great for 99% of people.
It’s the way to both allow you to join the atmos crowd without jumping on a bandwagon financially that will most likely not be a thing in 5 years, for music at least.
Don't forget soundbars.
New HDMI spec will work as interface between computer and sound bar.
I am cool with starting with some earphones but ir is nowhere the same as discrete speakers.
Don't forget soundbars.
New HDMI spec will work as interface between computer and sound bar.
I am cool with starting with some earphones but ir is nowhere the same as discrete speakers.
@@germancarluv pretty irrelevant imo. Soundbars in my experience sound at best about as good as headphones and also nowhere near discrete speakers. The only people that will hear the mix on discrete speakers is you and other engineers who bought in. 90% of people will be listening on headphones… maybe 9% on soundbars and other consumer atmos faking systems… then maybe a whopping 1% of consumers will have actual atmos setups to take advantage of the fruits of your 5-$25,000 investment. It just makes more sense in every possible way to mix for binaural headphone applications.
Possibly. I would argue more than 9% of the public have or will have soundbars.
I agree with majority listing on earbuds.
My experience with binaural atmos fold down was pretty lack luster though.
It requires a headscan for proper binaural playback.
Maybe would have sounded better if I have phone scan head and use proper spacial audio playback.
@@germancarluv this is exactly why Atmos wont take off though. It needs to fold up. Not down. It needs to sound best on headphones first. You need to get people excited about atmos on the equipment they already have or it’s a nonstarter. As it stands, even if it’s 50% that have sound bars, both headphones and sound bars are the worst way to experience atmos. And even with that, most people buy sound bars to watch movies. Where Atmos actually makes sense as an evolution of 5.1 in movie enthusiasts homes. But for music, all roads lead to catering to binaural mixes on headphones and forgoing the investment in discrete speakers until there is evidence of real music adoption in the consumer culture.
From what I understand, Logic makes this really easy. Will take a crack at the headphone strategy soon.
If bedroom producers are having trouble justifying this how is a consumer going to justify it. I understand there will be spatial headphones for consumers but this doesn’t feel like a smart move by the industry. Thanks for the video and rational response to this madness.
What does "spatial headphone" even mean? Will we be moving around with a bag over our heads?
There is this little thing called "the laws of physics".
This is a very good point. Us music nerds are a lot more likely to spend a lot of money on gear than the average listener.
The majority of movies put out on streaming or disk DO NOT employ Atmos or DTSX. I am an audiophile and own an Atmos system and most, 90% of 4K discs I own DO NOT have it. It is extremely unnecessary for music, that is not how our ears were designed to listen to music. Otherwise they would set up live orchestras with string or brass players physically in front and BEHIND you in the auditorium, but they do not and never will. Why? Because it is unnatural. Besides, good auditoriums provide natural reflections for good imaging anyway. It's weird to me that with all that goes on in this world that Dolby Atmos in a car will be some kind of priority.
Atmos music if recorded & listened back on a didcated surrond system is very good. Headphone playback I found it over saturated.
Something to binge on the way to my day job.
I was expecting your input on this subject.
There seems to be a nerve about this and the future of home studios. 🧐
Even outside of 7.1.4 (and larger) setups, I think Atmos offers a novel approach to mixing in stereo and other traditional formats (quad, 5.1, etc). It allows for expressive panning that translates between different speaker configurations and headphones. I think there's a lot to be gained just from mixing stereo/binaural with Atmos.
Side note: I don't think anyone else is pronouncing it "Adamos"
Fully agree. And Adobe Atomos rules! 😅
Great video. The only thing I'd add is that the video sort of pre-supposes that Atmos will be mandatory at some point in the future, and I am not convinced that will happen. Streaming companies might want to see (or require) Atmos for their major promotion efforts... that forces big labels into making Atmos mixes, but small time home recording studios won't bother. And if the day came when you DID have to release an Atmos mix, I'm sure they'll be software that can take a regular stereo mix and make an Atmos version where it just adds a teeny bit of reverb to the non-stereo channels. It wasn't that long ago that people told us 3D TV was the next big thing and everyone would have one.
Dolby system was very useful in the analog era, to clean up tape noise and stereo quad sound, now in the digital era, I don't think is a big deal to have.
Dolby Atmos on streaming is only in regards to the "Spatial" audio aspect.. And that can be done on any set headphones.
I've seen a lot of music technology come and go in my lifetime. More than once I've seen technology come on the market and people just didn't choose to adopt it even when it was better. It just went by the wayside and was never heard of again. I'm not saying this will happen with Dolby Atmos but it's certainly another good reason besides the high cost not to rush into it.
The audio program at my school is starting to ask if we would want an Atmos mixing class. So it's coming, but yes, it will take some time. I also used speakers a lot more when I lived in a house. Now where I share walls with strangers, I'd be getting knocks, so headphones it is. It sucks, haha
Hey Barry - maybe a future video should be about how to create a proper Atmos setup for the home studio - using real speakers - on a budget. How much would we need to spend?
If I could afford it .but I don’t think so good video Barry 👍👍
I feel, at the end of the day, there is still a market for monophonic music (think of how many kids you've seen just going through the park blarring music on their BT speaker).
I can’t seem to upload my atmos mix for my song any suggestions on none of the plat forms is there an option and it won’t except my files
Once in a while over the last 17 years I've mixed a few of my songs in 5.1 surround - just out of curiosity, and it's the same problem every time: All my friends have either stereo or mono, but no surround. Being a first mover is hard. I'm gonna try again in a decade and see. 😀
I think it is already relevant and valid for cinema sound but we are a while away from the ordinary consumer to experience your Atmos mixes correctly. So who would you be mixing fo for exactly?
I recently started setting up my mix/mastering room for ATMOS. For me it was a relatively inexpensive buy-in. I already had a 5.1 speaker setup of matching studio monitors. I also had a second pair or studio monitors that I'll add 2 more to for the overhead speakers. So to get to 7.1.4 I just needed to add 4 speakers. I have plenty of D/A to set it up separately from my stereo mix setup. I use Nuendo which has the Dolby ATMOS renderer included within the software. I also have the physical space to meet the minimum requirements.
People haven't been beating down my door for ATMOS mixes yet but I do believe it is the future so I decided to become relatively early adopter.
One huge benefit is the spec for ATMOS levels. The final render can be a MAX of -18 lufs with a peak of -1db. This will effectively eliminate the assault on dynamics (loudness wars) in music production. That alone makes the ATMOS world worth it for the future of quality music imo.
Hi, one question, the -18lufs, is integrated?
Thanks for perspective. I like the idea of genuine dynamics making a comeback. I’m hopeful ATMOS will facilitate that.
@@oscarpatxot659 Yes it's integrated.
@@marcellorosciglione2627 I assume this spec is because when the ATMOS mix is rendered to binaural you'll need that headroom so the 2 channel render doesn't overload.
I've always loved stereo however the implications of moving to Atmos is staggering because 1st of all your room acoustics have to be on point to actually do this type of mixing and not only that...the monitoring setup gonna have to be on point and it also means, well for people using Pro Tools Ultimate like myself, the learning curb and purchasing additional software to accommodate all this is a rabbit hole I know a lot of engineers don't really want to take on. Oh boy this is way too much.
This is the same as 3D movies. It’s going to be “the next big thing” for a year or two. But most people want a stereo mix.
Atmos will not be taking off until a non proprietary surround sound platform is adopted. Apple by itself isn't popular enough to drive the market. As is right now, Atmos is a niche.
Another point to consider - 99% of artists make peanuts from streaming services (if anything at all). If the streaming services want to create an additional elitist tier within the artist community by enforcing this new Atmos standard, then I suspect 99% of Artists could decide to distribute their music elsewhere.
Atmos will eventually become the standard for recording, however, the song will suffer and the focus won't be memorable lyrics, song structure and great songs, but cool effects that have no basis on songs or great performances, it will be about: "wouldn't it be cool to ......." I got into recording and music to write great songs with stories and wonderful hooks not into "Movie sound effects". I will still concentrate on songwriting as my priority and traditional recording as my means of having my songs heard and played. For me, it is about the song.
What if it flops like 3D T.V. technology?
the problem with current dolby atmos, which I do approve, is that you essentially have to mix and master "additionally", which takes time and effort of course but most importantly more money. If DA wants to be the standard they have to be more friendly towards lo-fi/homemade musicians/engineers. Also, speaking of lo-fi/homemade, do we reallllly need Dolby Atmos version of Elliott Smith's Either/or? think about that.
it's perfect timing because right now when Apple Music and Spotify are being bombarded (not exaggerating) by UMG with shitloads of copyright claims following wave of AI-generated music (using AI tools to determine "another AI" "stole" parts of copyrighted music), music industry has never been so close to collapse as it is this year :D
How much for a typical setup?
Could also be worth waiting for an open 3D sound format instead of accepting the proprietary licensed formats available now. There's probably a reason why after a few years only a small number of streaming services and no download stores have Atmos content. In future I'm hoping we can mix in 3D without having to accept the format Dolby is forcing
There are all kinds of rumors circulating that Apple, Spotify, etc. will only accept Atmos files to get on playlists or even be able to distribute music. I believe this is just FUD to get studios to pony up for Atmos gear. I have seen this before with Quad in the 70s (the studio I worked for built a quad room), Dolby 5.1, SACD, DVD surround, etc. Atmos may be coming to luxury cars, but I don't see people installing Atmos systems at home, and as you said, most people listen on earbuds, Bluetooth speakers, and headphones. I mix all my stuff on headphones and will continue to do so.
Don’t think this will happen anytime soon first sign will be when your standard 8in 8 out interface upgrades there 2 stereo speaker outs to how many Dolby Atmos requires
There's no need to rush into Atmos but there are very affordable ways to get started. Logic, Nuendo and Cubase Pro 12 all include the Atmos tools needed (Windows included w/ Nuendo and Cubase Pro 12). For $500-$1,000 in software and some additional monitors you can be up and running. The fact that anyone with headphones can listen to a folded down Atmos mix means this format isn't going anywhere. I grew up with quad and have watched every other surround format emerge and fade. The problem was always a lack of delivery.
Atmos is a different dog boys. The argument that an Atmos mix on headphones sounds like crap is comical given the number of people who spend money on headphones. How many of you griping about the sound quality rushed out to buy Beats when they hit the market?
Apple and others will develop ATMOS headphones. This is the way most people will consume it. It is also the way I will mix for it.
I'm not a huge fan of this, but I'm seeing way too many market forces that will increase demand for spatial mixes. I don't think it'll be really fast (strictly due to cost) but in 10 years, Dolby and at least one other yet-to-be-seen standard will prevail. More importantly, stereo mixes will continue to be THE standard for at least another 25 years. My $0.02.
Isn't it possible to just convert a stereo mix into a Dolby Atmos 2.0 bed to comply with the Atmos requirements?
Most of the time I don't like how Dolby Atmos sounds. But I feel like if one day people are gonna find a way to make lightweight headphones like airpods give you a high quality surround sound just like you're sitting in the room - people are gonna love it. It will create a lot of possibilities for musicians and mixing engineers.
No way, not in my studio!
The fact that Spotify and Apple are taking this stance is mildly infuriating. It feels like a gift to increasingly irrelevant commercial studios, major labels and gear manufacturers. I think that just like quadraphonic, 5.1, 7.1 etc, etc, - Atmos is overkill in music applications. Also, the fact that different decoders handle the same track differently is another thing that I feel is just crazy. I'm not going to worry about it. Two ears, two speakers.
Good news for us Studio owners, this will probably not be implemented in most peoples home-recording-places. So if Atmos will be required for Spotify UA-cam etc. it will most likely bring a lot more clients to our studios, simply because of the effort, Atmos needs to be implemented well.
With what budgets? Seriously, we now live in a world where “the album” is not a source of revenue, therefore the labels (and the artists) are increasingly reluctant to spend the kind of money they used to, making such a product. So now we have a landscape where artists are forced into smaller and cheaper spaces in order to afford to make albums that will never recoup.
And you’re saying “Great! Now they’ll have to spend thousands of dollars at my real studio!”
They won’t. They can’t.
great video, but, is it atamos or atmos? keep em coming!
i don't understand how musician's don't have great systems instead of iphone/ipods to properly hear their creations. they are missing a lot of the frequencies they are creating!
Adaboy, Adamos!
Today 80% of the music is listened thru headphones, the remaining 19% are listened on stereo (in cars for instance, where you don't realy want to be deeply disturbed by sounds comming from everywhere) or even on a mono speaker and the last 1% is listened in an atmos compliant room.
And the binaural rendering doesn't realy work yet. When an easy, cheap and light way to listen atmos will come things will change.
technology is advancing by leaps and bounds, but we are in an era where certain areas of technology are so developed that there will not be much change at the end of their development (video games, television, photoshop...) . the dolby atmos for example, even if I have never experienced it, I know that it is a technological advance which will not have an impact on the way in which the music will be made and will be listened to, it is just a invention more reserved for the purist who will find nothing new except by noting how much the sound around them is in 3D in their studio nevertheless, men will always have two ears and headphones.
I was heavily invested in 5.1 mixing. But it never took off.
Hey Barry . Personally I feel Atmos is a step backwards for music making . You can’t compare it to 720 or 1080 or 4K TV’s …we visually saw the pictures getting better . We can’t hear the difference in ATMOS. If you get 4K it’s 4K. It’s like that with stereo and mono . But it’s not like that with atmos. The experience differs from setup to setup . Maybe 5 years down the line … but what if we discover something better than atmos ?
by the way, there is no reason why a VR headset with multiple speakers could not be introduced into the market. I do all of my mixing for the most part on headphones with sonar works.
Atmos is great for movies and video games but not for music. Music doesn't sound good if it is too spread out (maybe classical music would work out but not pop/rpck/country). Other formats that were proposed in the past (quad, surround, etc.) didn't succeed. I don't think this time the Atmos format will stay either. The industry is pushing hard to regain control and are almost forcing well stablished mixing engineers to get setup with Atmos (and spending a lot of money). That means mixes will be way more expensive and since the mastering engineers also need to be setup with an Atmos room, masters will also be way more expensive. If Apple , Spotify and other streaming platforms are threatening with excluding music that it is not in Atmos format for their playlists, who cares? And if being on a playlist (if you really manage to get into one) is so important, then convert your stereo mix into the Atmos format. This is the same BS play that Waves tried to pull of recently and backfired because everybody united and uninstalled their plugins. Maybe we should do the same with Atmos.
Barry, as always great content! I always appreciate that you bring interesting topics for open discussion (Forgot to add this on my previous comment).
I would add if you fallow apple and android you loose what you own to hav what they make in false reality. Id rather have a cd or a record and all the papers in it
I only mix in 420.69 (future proof format)😮😅
100% agree on the push for Atmos coming from creators and root is Sweetwater and other massive music stores. I don’t think end users care much for Atmos. It’s not that much of a difference except in soundtracks.
I watched a few videos talking about Atmos. One interesting viewpoint taken from these is they talk about how saturated and competitive the stereo mixing engineering market is. Because it's difficult for young engineers to enter the realm of early-days CLA, Atmos is the ticket to that path. As sincere as their tone is, it sounds like another veiled attempt to push people to heavily invest in Atmos setup. In stead of saying 'act now or you will lag behind', here is a great opportunity to lift your status tight up to the famous engineering John Great. I am sure Atmos will be the norm. But investment decision should not be at manufactures, dealers and promoters' terms.
I seriously doubt it will be the norm. People used to invest on hi-fi systems and great speakers. Now they listen music from their i-phones or even their laptops. Tell them "you have to buy 5- 7 speakers and put them around your living room" and listen to their response...
I'm still waiting for guys to fully embrace 5.1 or 7.1 dolby surround systems and get them in low end cars and more.
One of the benefits of atmos is that the folddown work on every format.
5.1, 7.1,dts all play fine on larger atmos systems.
Spacial audio allows surround in binual headphone streaming.
My next studio will have the option.
Thing is nobody really needs, or wants it. For music listening experience you've reached a peak with good stereo.
Hey unk, you gonna be at NAMM? My friend has a Atmos studio
Barry, I read Dolby Atmos renderer is not available for Windows in the same machine you have your DAW. However, I know Nuendo 12 comes with the Dolby Atmos Renderer in itself , my question is - Can I use have the same rendering capabilities Macs have on Windows if I'm using Nuendo 12? Cheers.
UMG, Sony, Atlantic want Atmos for every major release now.
"HDTV took 8 years to become popular." But content creators had to buy HD camera gear immediately to work in that industry. Not everyone will create a hit song, featured on an Apple playlist, but that's the aim of most people. So going Atmos sooner than later makes sense
The planet primarily will use headphones and mono phones and stereo speakers. This trend wasn't changed with quad, surround and won't with Atmos speakers either, because people will not buy 12 speaker systems and most people don't want 12 speaker systems. As head of Netflix said, they are only really concerned with delivering spatial audio from 2 speakers. Their recent push with this is using Ambiophonics to deliver spatial to stereo consumer speakers in TVs, laptops etc.
The big elephant in Atmos's room is Google, they just have to snap their fingers to their own competing format (supposedly in development) and then Dolby Atmos is just another spatial audio format like all the others before it. Google have 75% of the mobile device market to Apple's 24%. Google have 2 Billion music listeners to Apple Music's 77 Million. Add to the fact 'every' device with Dolby Atmos pays a licence to Dolby in order to decode Dolby Atmos and Google's will supposedly be an open agnostic format and decoder, the device manufactures will pick a free codec every time.
I have my own new audio software im forcing the world to use coming out soon. Its called "Atmost". Its for modern mainstream artists to record with. The only people allowed to use it are the highest selling most famous current pop musicians. Here are some of the features:
1. The artist must record themselves without help from any professionals. They can no longer rely on other peoples expertise. They have to actually learn how to engineer and produce their own record on humble home recording equipment. Get that Tascam 424 manual pdf download started now, Taylor Swift.
2. The artist cannot use voice tuning software. We will finally hear what their human voice sounds like without a team of people fixing everything for them. No Soothe. No Melodyne. Time to look in the mirror with the makeup off.
3. No drum machines or drum editing. Artists must play the drums with their own two hands, no professionals, no hired session players.
4. The artist must write their own original songs. No help whatsoever from ghost writers or co-writers. No more letting a professional take your awkward poem and turn it into a great song by adding all the strong songwriting tricks that the artist was too busy being famous for being a "musical genius" to learn for themselves.
5. No brand loyalty or professional promotion from a company. No showing the artists face or who they are. They must release the music with a blank cover or fake name so that people have to actually like the song and not just like it because the artist is already famous or very attractive.
With my new recording software, I look forward to all the multi million selling "musical geniuses" self written, self recorded, self promoted blank cover/no music video/no corporate promotion albums they will create. I also look forward to them selling, without any help or fake tricks, about 15 copies "Atmost".
I have it in my studio. And I've been getting work already.