Reviews - Traveller (GURPS, T20, Hero)
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Exploring the "interregnum" period of the Traveller role-playing game's history. With Imperium Games (and Traveller's 4th edition) gone, what will fill the void?
Links:
Classic Traveller review: • Review - Classic Trave...
MegaTraveller (T2): • Review - MegaTraveller...
Traveller: The New Era (T3): • Review - Traveller: Th...
Marc Miller's Traveller (T4): • Review - Marc Miller's...
One thing to note about the 4th edition version of GURPS Space and all the other 4th edition genre books, is that they are almost completely system agnostic genre writing aids. If you are playing in a pre-existing setting you really don't need them.
Same as 3rd, too. Although you really did need GURPS Space etc. to get the scope covered by the design rules of Traveller proper.
After years of playing various iterations of classic Traveller (to include mongoose), GURPS Traveller, while also having experience with the hero system, and 20, I’ve come to the following conclusion. If I am running a Traveller campaign (Defined as ragamuffins on a ship, Or anything covered by a specific mongoose campaign, setting, or anything that primarily revolves around being on a ship as the setting for the campaign) I use classic or mongoose. If I want to run a theme campaign set in the universe, regardless of timeframe in universe, I use GURPS; An example would be a intelligence campaign where the player characters are agents for an intelligence service. I love the classic career/random character generation system. But it is very unsuited to a campaign, where many characters with specific background outcomes necessary to make the campaign work are needed. For instance, a campaign that requires five espionage agents that also have shipboard skills specialized to a mission Will not result from the random character generation system, and the templates and tables for each career path are woefully insufficient for that, never mind, the fact that the skill list is somewhat inadequate for that. So, to sum up, I love classic and mongoose, but see them as best suited for conducting a particular type of campaign. GURPS Is my go to to play a type of campaign that is Themed and further afield from what people would consider the classic traveler experience, so I prefer to use it when playing those types of campaigns in the traveler universe
The very definition of "right tool for the job". Although I could argue that Traveller chargen can be manipulated to produce specialised results, I won't - because it looks like you've hit on a formula that works for you :)
Traveller HERO was available in a two-book paper version as well. However, the PDF versions available from FFE includes _tons_ of stuff that was cut from the paper books before publishing for whatever reason.
Yeah, I never understood that. Given that HERO had this matter of pride for being bulletproof, surely Traveller HERO should have been plasma rifle proof!
Oh heck yeah!!!! I have been waiting for this one. 🎉 🎈 🎊 😊
I hope it matches your anticipation...
I'm going to watch this one again in a few.
Again?! Even the wife only watched it once! 😂
I will add the GURPs Celtic sourcebook to my wishlist. Ty for these reviews. With Traveller it is the lore and inconsistent operating systems that give me pause.
Don't worry about the lore so much - it wasn't really there at the beginning, and isn't the entire definition of the game. Even if you do use the setting, there's quite a large variety of sub-settings to choose from.
Interested to know what you find inconsistent, though. Within Traveller itself, within a specific edition, I've found it to be a very internally consistent game.
@@WillyMuffinUK I was speaking to my perception of differences between editions. I have only played Traveller a handful of times though. Maybe it looks like a new game every time I play because I don't have any depth with it.
@@RHampton Ah... Well, that isn't far from the truth. Traveller's 1st and 2nd editions (Classic and MegaTraveller) are more or less the same, its 3rd (New Era) is very different, its 4th redevelops many systems from 1st and 2nd (and is therefore very different from 1st, 2nd, and 3rd), and its 5th pushes many of the concepts of 4th even further, while totally rebuilding others. GURPS, T20, and Hero Traveller are obviously all different, being based on those systems. Mongoose Traveller (the other current edition, along with T5) goes back and updates things from 1st/2nd (and so is more compatible with 1/2, broadly compatible with 4/5, and not so compatible with 3).
There is some continuity between the editions. World profiles, for example, haven't really changed. There is also a vague semblance of compatibility when it comes to adventure publications - you could run a Classic Traveller adventure using MegaTraveller, T4, T5, and either Mongoose edition pretty easily - although it would take work to run under TNE, GT, HT, or T20. Personally, I happily pilfer material from all editions, but then... I do have depth with it, and am a natural gearhead.
So in summary, yes, I can see where you're coming from with that. But on the plus side, it does mean you get more-or-less a new game with each iteration, than the same game from the 1970s with a few tweaks and glossier art :)
I love Traveller, there, I said it.
Well done - get it out there 😉
Props to GURPS and Palladium. Though neither is a system I particularly like. Both make excellent fluff books
No argument from me there!
Imagine a single Traveller campaign using Imperium, GURPS, T20, and Hero corresponding to multiple galactic encounters and actions.
Would be interesting to work out the interactions!
My only experience with Traveller so far is with a group of friends that wanted to play GURPS Traveller. The GM was a long-time fan of the setting, and I go with GM friends more than I worry about systems.
It started well, we were crew of a "Beowulf"-style ship - my PC was a young female Human pilot that had lost her family when her parent's ship was destroyed - but a married couple in our group of friends had relationship issues and it scuttled the campaign.
Anyway, I bought a GURPs 4th Rulebook- correction, it had to be GURPS 3rd - and a few splats that interested me. I have more than a few core rulebooks of systems that various circles of friends wanted to run. I guess GURPS didn't really excite me.
As a system, it doesn't really excite me either. It's OK, but more importantly for me it helped keep Traveller alive.
I guess over time, gamers tend to pick up a number of books that looked interesting but never get used, that looked interesting and get used a lot, and a bunch of systems of which only a handful ever get played to any great extent. Such is our lot in life!
@@WillyMuffinUK Oh yes, my friend's excitement over the Traveller setting was what got me in. I'd play in the setting again if a group I meshed with wanted to.
I never mind buying RPG books if they interest me. Buying PDFs makes storage easier....
Interesting overview of a great game.
Thank-you
Everytime you upload a new Traveller video I rewatch the entire series. I bought Far Trader and First In even though I probably could have saved money of I bought the CD from Far Future Enterprises and printed the PDFs off of lulu but none of my computers have a DVD drive and it would have cost me the same regardless.
Ah, yes, the FFE DVDs are pretty good value.
And you rewatch them *all*?!? Woah!
@@WillyMuffinUK yeah lol. Maybe not in order but I can't just seem to get enough traveller. Makes me wish I got into RPGs when I was in middle school, when Mongoose Traveller 1e came out.
"arriving in 2007 from ComStar Games" - am I expected to truck with Blakists, Quineg?
Sorry, I just got my "Alpha Strike" box Monday. It's awesome, BTW.
I wasn't previously aware of ComStar Games, but I love that name. I'll have to look into their offerings.
I'm pretty sure that's where they got their name. Too much of a coincidence - and this particular neck of the woods is... Well, put it like this: FASA started by making Traveller supplements, FASA created BattleTech, and eventually a Traveller 3rd party shows up carrying a BattleTech name making supplements for Traveller... Somewhat interrelated!
@@WillyMuffinUK Right? That's one of the fun things about tabletop. Another such is the time I called Amarillo Design Bureau to order some "Star Fleet Battles" things and had a long discussion with one of the designers. I think that sort of thing happened even more often when FASA and GDW were operating.
@@anna-elizabeth When game companies were being run by gamers... ah, those halcyon days!
Its a long time since I last played Traveller but I remember thoroughly enjoying it . Hopefully someone will pick up the idea and an updated version will eventually appear.
There is an updated version... Two current editions I mention at the start - T5 and Mongoose Traveller. We're in the midst of a small Traveller renaissance!
@@WillyMuffinUKfunny thing is. Mist people I know prefer the older stuff for Taveller.
@@michaelconnor1542 I have a mixture. Most prefer Mongoose 2nd for the clarity, with select books from a variety of editions - Classic seems most popular for the adventures.
I'm fascinsted by Conan. Sword and Sorcery seems to return to popularity. Did you play any of these, particularly Conan like games? And how have those systems evolved to do the genre?
Never played any of the Conan RPGs, but have played a lot that are swords and sorcery - and the Conan adventures that were published for AD&D (they aren't particularly very good...).
I like Conan, but haven't been enamoured by his depiction in RPGs too much. There's a review on my site of the Tower of the Elephant board/adventure game that's fun, but it's not an RPG.
First, and this is no aspersion. Hero did create soft cover books for Traveller. I misplaced one in a move, but still have the other.
As for complexity. I have played GURPS, Traveller, and Hero System. Hero gets a bad wrap on complexity.
People equate book size with complex. The core system isn't difficult, and really doesn't take many pages. I found GURPS more complex. Mostly because there are too many "oh, but this" built in to the basics. Even though it is clearly derived from Champions/Hero.
The powers are robust and there is much fluff to help those creating powers, spells, and equipment to so.
Once you have a character and any equipment or vehicles. The game goes quick.
To me comes down to preferences.
Traveller is pretty well laid out. Characters can take very little, or a LOT of time. Depending on career and dice rolls. Creating a decent framework of a character. But not much depth. The system can be brutal and requires that one pays attention to detail, lots of detail, and use tact.
Hero, has more robust characters creation. Which can take a lot of time, but that is mostly in a supers game. Heroic level characters generally generate more quickly.
The heroic level Hero games tend to require much the same as Traveller. Pay attention, otherwise it is brutal and will pead to character, if not party, death.
Btw, I like all three systems and think the couple of fantasy games using the Traveller mechanics look fantastic and want to try them.
I played GURPS before either Traveller or Hero. It was ok, but I always felt it was more complicated than it let on.
When I played Hero, I realized the things they were doing that caused my issues.
Before someone says GURPS was first. Champion was around before GURPS and had some Hero people on their development team. If memory serves me.
But hey. Just my two cents. Otherwise great video.
Out of interest, was it only the core? I was only able to buy (back in the day) and find reference to (for this video) PDFs of the Hero Trav. run.
From a complexity standpoint, I don't think calling Hero complex is unfair. Generic systems quite often run to bulk in order to cover all of the options needed to be truly generic, but both GURPS and Hero suffer from being specific in their option sets by genre, rather than generic across the board. This isn't a criticism - sometimes, complex is what is needed.
What makes Hero more complex than GURPS (in my opinion) is its fundamentals, not its book size. Hero puts a lot more work on Characteristics, many (e.g. base OCV) that apply to variables during play, and there being a fair few of them; while GURPS puts more of the load onto its skill framework, with few stats. Example - GURPS combat, make a skill check with the relevant weapon, defender gets an attempt to defend against it, roll damage. Hero combat, calculate OCV from base OCV + mods (including for skill), including fractional accounting, then figure damage from a normal distribution-esque method of reading the dice, plus... It is more complex than GURPS, but that's fine - different people find different complexities easier or harder to get their head around than others - one of the fun things about belonging to such a diverse species as human!
I don't really care which game was first... Although I will just say - GURPS began its embryonic life in The Fantasy Trip (1977), and Hero started with Champions (1981). GURPS was released as a generic system in 1985, while Hero was released as a generic system in 1990. Basic Roleplaying was released as a generic system in 1981, so in "generic system" guise, BRP beats both ;)
But, in the end, all three systems have their merits and well-deserved places in their fans' hearts.
(And as a general rule of thumb, I try not to be in the game of reviewing games I don't actually like - plenty of other folks out there doing that; I might be critical of them, but I still love 'em if they've made a spot in my little corner of t'internet!)
I picked up one of the Gurps books for Castle Falkenstein and was pleasantly surprised to fine it was dual stated to GURPS and the Falkenstein. Are the Gurps traveller books like that?
Unfortunately, no. You do have to do some terms and units conversion to use GURPS Traveller materials with Traveller (or vice versa).
nice video
Thank-you!