I have to disagree that bodybuilders don't track weights & reps. Especially with RP strength & Dr Mike, they are strong advocates of tracking workouts.
Only people at a high level on steroids don't track their workouts lol. High level naturals track their workouts. Or people with great genetics don't always track it and just use their memory.
I would have to say your all right as well as wrong. And anyone the immediately runs to the word STERIODS. VS what ever is clearly just displaying there ignorance on the entire conversation! That being said lets move on to my point. There are many people professional and non profession, That are very capable of successful training with either (tracking or no tracking) People that do not typically track in my experience, Are those that have been training for some time or have the natural ability to track instinctually lets say. They know their body's well enough to understand what it can do on any given day. Some days it's more some day's it less lets say. There's those that were taught to track #'s reps, and sets. So it becomes natural. U can track progress, U can use it as a motivational tool. (those to things alone) can both be very helpful and detrimental at the very same time. Example- I often see- The trackers will often over look a very important aspect of lifting. IMO! They will get so wrapped up in the #'s game (it's all about progression of your log right) When they hit a Platea which most all of us do! They just continue to look at the log n try n make the numbers move period! could be many ways in which a person attempts that is a whole different conversation. N they are actually being counter productive to their own goals at this point. When they should actually be backing off a bit and giving them selves time to recover and then move on. The instinctive trainer intentional or unintentional has more of a tendency to naturally apply this per individual workout. U can feel days U can go harder U can feel days U should do a little less. Whilst achieving the stimulus required on that day. Both ways are incredibly effective. It's what works best for the individual. N to anyone that thinks these basic principles are any different for an athlete using steroids or not using steroids'. Is simply Barking their own ignorance at the MOON! It takes hard ass work and a MENTAL dedication to achieve anything in life. Especially manipulating ones body into change it naturally does not want to do! N for all the haters out that that love to say. WELL IF I USED STEROIDS I COULD LOOK LIKE THAT! ------- NO YOU COULDNT!!! Cause if that were true U would be doing it WITHOUT them to begin with. When U lay your little primadonnas heads down on your pillows tonight. Remind yourselves U didn't have what it takes mentally. So your go to is just another excuse in your lives to give up. Tracking vs Non Tracking Personal pref try them both choose your pref n roll with it. at the end of the day its each individuals personal choice. Best to all and happy lifting!
Its amazing how much free information is available to the average lifter compared to what my dad was dealing with in the 80s scraping money together for muscle magazines
Been lifting for almost 20 years and what you just covered in 20 minutes sums it all up. As much as it seems like common sense (rep ranges , loads , etc) it’s really not. We get tunnel vision, we stall out, and we wonder why we aren’t getting the results we are looking for. Focusing on one goal, strength vs size, and making sure we are training for it are incredibly important and I can’t thank you enough for reminding me about this. Fantastic video, incredible info, you are a game changer in the fitness/strength world. So glad we have someone like you to help us reach new levels. You’re truly amazing. Also I’d like to say when no one was talking about you before 2023 WSM I had you on that podium. 😂 you did not disappoint! Keep killing it! Looking forward to seeing you, Thor and stoltman battle it out over the next few years. This will be epic. 🎉
I think it would be a lot easier to break Mitch than you'd think. Like he said, strongmen don't do a ton of volume in season. Maybe out of szn when hes building work capacity
Like Mike Mentzer used to say what are you supposed to do if not get stronger, Get weaker. For the natural bodybuilder you have to get stronger, to get bigger.
Good stuff! As a 56 year old natural athlete who has 45 years of athletics and gym time, I have definitely needed small breaks over the years to let my neuromuscular system rest. I just had 8 weeks off from lifting, which was my longest break ever. I have always had a physical job, and still ride my bicycle nearly every day. video has helped me understand why my brain was so tired, and how to tailor my training to avoid this again:). Cheers mate!!
8:10 as someone that's more into the (casual) bodybuilding side of fitness, there's different kinds of loads. Focusing solely on "number go up" usually leads you to go to the most energy efficient route, rather then the route which gets the most muscle stretch/time under tension (which is optimal for muscle development). I do celebrate it whenever I put an extra weight on the bar/cable/whatever, but I also celebrate it when I do the exact same weight but slower/with higher range of motion.
This is very important. Progressive overload isn't limited to more weight. Less rest, dropsets, more volume etc all contribute as well as more time under tension as you said. When i was much younger and tracked my workouts i felt like my form would get sloppy as i was so focused on lifting more and nothing else so hypertrophy would inevitably suffer.
@@Vas1984 volume, stretch and time under tension and rir are the big 4 in my opinion. Volume usually is the factor with the most deminishing returns (and extra time needed), so I prefer to optimize for the other 3.
Mitch is so intelligent and understands the tasks and all idiosyncrasies which beyond his brute strength gives him such an advantage over other outwardly appearing stronger.Impressive.
I’d love you to expand on the ‘big joint / small joint’ thing you mention as a difference between body builders and strength athletes, I’ve never heard that before
I believe, and I am no expert , but with strength training your joints and tendons become bigger and stronger, do to the load capacity. , and also your bone density will be much more than a bodybuilder.
As a bodybuilder you want your muscles to look as big as possible, without caring how much force they can produce. Smaller joints would make your muscles appear larger.
@@stevenlake5278Bones being much more dense sounds like a bit much. Not only that strength athletes tend to not care for isolation so those bones aren't under high force.
As a bodybuilder, I track my workouts and also I test my strength within 5-8 rep range vs. 1 with compound movements. I tend to stay away from single joint movements in the beginning of my workouts
I'm a competitive bodybuilder and I've been a national champion in powerlifting as well, the controlled tempo of reps I use in bodybuilding helps when I want to be more explosive in strength endeavours.
Most of my training for the last 10 years or so has been ~3 days a week, 2-6 rep range, heavy compound loads for power (T&F thrower, rugby player). I'm still putting on both strength and size after 10 years of consistent lifting.
I'm far from the target audience for these videos, but I'm endlessly researching how to get stronger. I'm a competitive cyclist, so my whole life is endurance and carbs. I want to get stronger, I don't care about size or looks one bit, I just want brute force and ignorance strength to go along with my endurance engine. I do the low rep strength training and it's honestly refreshing to work that side of life, it did take me a few weeks to figure out how to feel for those exercises compared to how I'm used to feeling. I'm used to okay 4 hours on the bike today and off I go, vs when I go lift, I'm trying to push far harder in terms of effort than a 4 hour ride. I'll never cancel out all of the endurance work I have to do no matter how much I lift, but I still channel my inner strongman and move as much weight as I can. Great videos all around.
I split my workouts as such: 3 days on 2 days off. Full body using unrelated supersets for every set(eg. lats to quads, biceps to abs, etc.) 1st day: strength day 3-7 reps close to 1RM. 2nd day: purely hypertrophy focused day 10-12 reps at around 55-65% of 1RM with several myoreps and long legnth partials. 3rd day: muscular endurance focused day at around 25 reps at 40% to 50% 1RM. This I also split into 2 workouts most of time time so I can get a good bit more work in and remain fresh for more sets. The same lifts are done for each day. When I add a lift, it's done on the second day, then the third, then on the first after the two days of rest or maybe 5 days after that. This allows me to get a good gauge of my strength without having to get as close to 1RM and also develop technique before strength. I only do 1RM once every two to three months at the end of a load cycle to figure out if I need to make adjustments and to properly gauge strength. I usually only do at most two lifts at 1RM per workout and then save the next ones for the next workout to give enough rest for each of those hard sets. Occasionally, I'll do a 1RM and it's 100% of what I have in the tank so I just have to leave for the day, or at least come back in the evening after recovery. They are super satisfying but, man, they really do drain you mentally.
I do have to disagree. As someone who trains with a bodybuilding focus, tracking workouts is insanely important. In order to continue to grow you have to be progressive overloading whether that be reps, sets, or weight.
Second video i watched and already subscribed. Extremely intelligent, and in depth as the fewest of fitness YTbers. Especially 16:30 was the part that sold it for me.
In your conversation with Dr Mike he mentioned high volume increasing strengths specifically in the legs. High volume training regards to our legs may be feasible as legs and arms are different in purpose. So high volume specifically for legs (which is almost half your body) could be possible.
Great content. Still I need to highlight one point after my personal experience of 30+ years of training at the gym, mostly as a bodybuilder. If you are natural, load progression is key also in BB. We need to alternate periods of classic BB training with periods of strenght development. In case you are juiced, the roids are making you progress in muscular development without having to work for strenght. Then, you also tend to work just on machines as they are safer for your joints, as you don't give time to your joints and tendons to adapt to the muscular artificial strenght increase. Obviously, the day you move to a free weight heavy exercise, disasters can strike. As well, for natural powerlifters it is key to develop the musce section to be able to keep on progressing at elite level. All in all, we all want to be as strong as we look, and look as big as we are strong. And honestly you are a very good mix of the two, Mitch
Totally makes sense Mitch! I’ve been strength training for 9 months now just done my first comp🥉 I’m strong AF but my body looks like shit compared to when I was training for size! I’m a lot stronger than I’ve ever been but muscular size has diminished except my posterior chain which I have never trained before! Thanks for the great content 👏
I'd love to see you n Mike do a training video where you show each other what you would determine to be the specific training types you each focus on. Not sure how feasible that is in reality. Just seeing Dr Mikes mind get blown straight out his head at the sheer volume you can move would be hilarious.
Would love to see a collab between you and Dr. Mike, where you make him do a strongman workout. Yoke walk, Frame carry, Log Press and specifically, keg toss and Atlas stones 😈
If 8:05 is based on the interview with Mike you posted, then you have misunderstood i think. The premise being described is not the literal implementation. Mike tracks his weights, as do as lot of other guys.
I think part of the reason many bodybuilders appararantly don't care if their numbers improve is that they KNOW their trainingvolume along with their restrictive diet will take a big steaming dump on their numbers anyway.
I really would like to see Mitch go through an RP training session. Legs preferably. And after that, many collaborations with RP: podcast style, debates, training, …
Typically when Mike talks about volume, he's referring to # of sets usually per week. Set x reps x weight is Volume load and isn't used because it's to individualised to standardize and make volume generalizations about. Secondly, bodybuilders care about weight progression. Its used as a proxy for muscle growth, or an indicator that what you're doing is productive. Usually bodybuilders are using a dynamic double progression, where load is increased when volume reaches the top of the desired range. Cheers
not true. If you watch many weighlifters or explosive powerlifters, they look like they don't even lift and yet have competition worth of strength. And then some do same training and also grow muscle on side
@@SumppaNah, most weight lifters and powerlifters have massive muscles where it counts. They may have smaller muscles in areas that are not used in their lifts, but they're not usually truly "small"
@@Sumppa This is a byproduct of the IFBB pro mass monsters making everyone else seem "small" in comparison. Weightlifters and power lifters aren't small they just aren't massive like a pro body builder.
Not sure your 275 lb x 10 lunge vs 725 lb x 10 squat comparison backs up your point about single joint exercises not translating to overall strength in something else. You mentioned the overall weight you could do in squats is 3x the weight on lunge. Well yes that is because you didn't account for your body weight which I think you said earlier in the video is around 315 lbs. So disregarding the discussion of it a lunge is really 100% load on one leg, but lets suppose it is, the equation comes to this: Single Leg Load with Lunge = Lift Load + Body Weight = 275 lbs + 315 lbs = 590 lbs at 10 reps Single Leg Load with Squat = (Lift Load + body Weight ) / 2 = (725 lbs + 315 lbs) / 2 = 520 lbs at 10 reps So the total load per leg is really about the same in the scenario you used. Given the front leg load on lunges is probably lower, lets say 85% and the math is then even closer and the load on the leg in squat and lunge in your two scenarios is essentially the same. Single Leg Load with Lunge = (Lift Load + Body Weight) x 0.85 = (275 lbs + 315 lbs) x 0.85 = 501.5 lbs at 10 reps However, I could be wrong as I'm not an exercise scientist, nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
While, I understand what you mean. The overall picture is that Lunges do not aid in the skills of the Squat, not even strength much. The movements themselves have no similarities aside from lowering the body thus the load will not equate the same effects. The feel of the loads and effects of it has to be very similar to the Squat, in order to affect it.
I just finished a 3 week Smolov jr bench, waiting til Tuesday or so to do my 1rm. I have done Smolov about 9 or 10 times with squat and bench. It friggin hurts, but it works. I hope to hit a 1 rm of 445 for my bench. I am 52 and weigh 272.
8:24 Trained, skill-based athletes: drop into a planche and see if that strength transfers. Skills are skills. I would rather define muscular strength by a muscle’s capacity to generate force, which is separate from skill.
Like Justin Harris says, training is about performance, mainly. How you look is much more about nutrition and endocrinology. We know now that bodybuilders train in different ways but get similar results. In powerlifting or strongman there is certain training that HAS to be done. That’s not true in bodybuilding. All of this hypertrophy research and training info for bodybuilding is interesting in its own right, but it’s not the limiting factor for bodybuilding. Most bodybuilders are probably doing WAY more tissue damage/growth stimulation that they can recover from. It’s the recovery and nutrition/hormones in bodybuilding that matter. A lot of the top BB coaches don’t even talk about training with their guys. A powerlifting coach will mostly be talking about training and programming.
I'm surprised about the bodybuilders not tracking their weight/reps. I'm mainly bodybuilding right now, I'm on a bulk, and I 100% track my weight/reps and use progressive overload. I've been doing it for 8 years now and it works just as good for bodybuilding as it does for strength training.
Awesome man, thank you, some top notch perspective I always thought people like Mike and Greg (less so, as he is legit hybrid athlete) generalize too much in a sense of general bodybuilding utilization philosophy, as it is their job at the end of day But there is much more to general functionality in training than that of bodybuilding, even for an average human regardless of level (considering just mechanical skill)| Strength training in my opinion is FAR MORE functional than bodybuilding
As for bodybuilders converting over to strength, it can be done safely, BUT they cannot just jump right into the deep end. They would need to start just like a novice, to allow their cns and tendons to adapt. That's also provided that bodybuilder happened to have thick bones and wide hips - often the bodybuilders with "bad structure" for the stage.
i started with bodybuilding and from day 1 on i tracked my sets and reps. I honestly would have done that even if nobody ever told me because it just seems sensible.
Bodybuilders are most organized of all strength athletes, tracking every rep, every weight lifted, preparing all meals. Increasing number of reps or adding weight is how progress is measured. One can't build 25 inch arms without lifting heavy weights. Bones are thickened as a protective mechanism when muscles are strengthened. "Nobody wants to lift heavy weights" Ronnie Coleman.
My old work use to demand some level of strength but I high degree of endurance example rowing movements pulling in crab pots by hand, torn lats a few times😅
I think you're overstating how many bodybuilders don't focus on progression - I've tracked every workout since the day I step foot in the gym over a decade ago.
You are one of my favorite powerlifters and you are undoubtedly the undisputed king of the 74 class. I didn't understand what that cut was in the last deadlift, did you do it? Or was it a failure?
Don't ask me why but ive made way more progress this year doing 8-12 rep sets on deadlift than i ever did doing triples, singles, etc. I was plateaud at 505 max, trained differently this year doing all volume work on desdlift and added 60lbs to my max in 5-6 months
Strength training volume needs to be high enough for an adaptation to occur. This volume, feeds the adaptation for the intensity. It is not uncommon to only train a heavy lift (intensity) once a week or once every 2 weeks.
The way I look at it (and maybe I’m completely wrong) but for size you want to SHOCK your muscles with high weight lower reps. Strength is more a MARATHON… you want to use lower weights (while increasing over time) with high reps.
I’m not sure I agree regarding CNS fatigue: Menno Henselmans made a great video explaining that CNS fatigue is mediated locallly at the motor unit level. I think this makes a whole lot of sense; even if you fry your CNS for squats, it’s not like you couldn’t go in and do some bicep curls.
I've experienced the opposite, fried cns (spine/neck) on my 8th rep of incline bench and instantly realized that no other reps could help me that day, the workout was over. Also, I have blindly pushed through after cns was fried and in hindsight there was no real growth from those later sets, only risk.
@@richardarmstrong6743 doesn’t make any sense from a physiologic perspective. “Central” CNS fatigue has to do with the motor unit (which is part of the target muscle) being at least partially refractory to stimulus from the motor neuron. It’s called CNS fatigue because the motor neuron is in the spinal cord so technically part of the CNS, but not central per se. Systemic fatigue can be possible but is more common with say running a marathon than weightlifting. Not feeling like training because you’re tired isn’t the same as “central fatigue” This video below explains it more thoroughly. ua-cam.com/video/fIcJhKnwp50/v-deo.htmlsi=m-1bnfDceS_FTNEv
Not tracking your workouts as a bodybuilder is because they are on juice. Natural bodybuilders know how to train. Load isn't the only info for progressive overlord in hypertrophy training. Measurements, muscle building and reps x weight are good indicators you've built muscle. You can't change lifts every day either otherwise, you're just getting better at the technique (strength) but you can't know you've built muscle on that lift.
My take away from this video is that my insomnia probably explains my history of injury 🤔 programming around insomnia is going to be difficult but at least I have a clue what the problem is.
What about something like Sheiko? Also, many studies show us we don't need to go close to failure for strength, so we could potentially do a decent amount of volume and get stronger. I'm blanking out on the name of the guy who's Russian and was a weightlifter and strongman.
Sheiko is pretty good. But not for advanced, IMO. Too much volume, you'd need less if you're really strong in your weight class. Albeit, this is very individualistic. Big problem with Sheiko is you can't auto regulate it. So, for Late Intermediate to Advanced lifters, it's gonna suck quick.
Great stuff. What is your thought on splitting your training based on movement? By this, I mean training for strength for one big movement, say bench, while doing more bodybuilding type exercises for the rest for period, hitting your goal, then switching to training for strength on squats, then deadlifts. The CNS would have time to recover, provided you have good program, plus you would build some size. I speak as a "normal" gym goer who is not out to compete, but just wants some good numbers and wants to look like I lift while in something other than tank top. Thanks!
At what point does one movement for a similar muscle group not translate to another? Like the example with lunges. Would lunges not be a good accessory movement for squat and/or deadlift, if it’s increasing strength and muscle mass in the muscle groups involved for both (notwithstanding practicing the lifts ofc)?
Is not mithcehll wrong when he says that volume is setxrepsxload, when the literature, many coaches/trainers etc, what's taught in school and Chattgpt say that: "Volume=set, reps, time, frekvens. Intesity=load(weight) and RPE"?
It is not your personal bias it is the TRUTH, when i started tracking my reps and doing a double progression my results skyrocketed, getting stronger in "bodybuilding" exercises is the only way to get big naturally. The fluff and pump, its not about the weight, mind muscle connection nonsense has taken years of gains for me as a natural lifter.
I've noticed more now than ever, that training for strength takes a tole on you. A week of hard, higher weights and lower reps... has kicked my ass this week. Watching this has made me a little more comfortable with being so damn tired. Nothing better than seeing small progress every week.
I think bodybuilders( or people who just want to focus building muscle) DO need to track their lifts. The high end bodybuilders who you said don't track are most likely on PED, and while this doesn't discredit their hard work or training to their craft, it does give them an objective metric to track and manipulate (doses and compounds used etc). So if you want to build muscle without them it would be in your best interests to track your lifts as it gives you objective numbers along side the visual appearance to know you building muscle. Just like if you're trying to lose fat, you have a visual assessment of 'i think i look slimmer' but you also track your weight using the scale to give you objective numbers and trends to back up the visual.
what if you do high volume to a degree that still hits your nervous system? cause i typically do sets of 10-15 (i dont really even count reps anymore just based off how my body is feeling) and then on my topset i go until absolute failure then dropset down, with every weight feeling like the last. with dr mikes recent video based on volume, do you think it would be better to not train until failure and leave 2 reps in the tank for max hypertrophy? or continue my "go hard or go home" approach with high volume. if i can get the same results with 80-90% effort and feel a lot better after, and the next day i probably would.
I have to disagree that bodybuilders don't track weights & reps. Especially with RP strength & Dr Mike, they are strong advocates of tracking workouts.
I imagine thats due to older training methods vs newer science based workouts within bodybuilding
People in gym barely track stuff .
Only people at a high level on steroids don't track their workouts lol.
High level naturals track their workouts.
Or people with great genetics don't always track it and just use their memory.
@@wertyuiopasd6281 What gym do you go to bro?
Planet fitness type or some other type
I would have to say your all right as well as wrong. And anyone the immediately runs to the word STERIODS. VS what ever is clearly just displaying there ignorance on the entire conversation! That being said lets move on to my point.
There are many people professional and non profession, That are very capable of successful training with either (tracking or no tracking) People that do not typically track in my experience, Are those that have been training for some time or have the natural ability to track instinctually lets say. They know their body's well enough to understand what it can do on any given day. Some days it's more some day's it less lets say.
There's those that were taught to track #'s reps, and sets. So it becomes natural. U can track progress, U can use it as a motivational tool. (those to things alone) can both be very helpful and detrimental at the very same time.
Example- I often see-
The trackers will often over look a very important aspect of lifting. IMO! They will get so wrapped up in the #'s game (it's all about progression of your log right) When they hit a Platea which most all of us do! They just continue to look at the log n try n make the numbers move period! could be many ways in which a person attempts that is a whole different conversation. N they are actually being counter productive to their own goals at this point. When they should actually be backing off a bit and giving them selves time to recover and then move on.
The instinctive trainer intentional or unintentional has more of a tendency to naturally apply this per individual workout. U can feel days U can go harder U can feel days U should do a little less. Whilst achieving the stimulus required on that day.
Both ways are incredibly effective. It's what works best for the individual.
N to anyone that thinks these basic principles are any different for an athlete using steroids or not using steroids'. Is simply Barking their own ignorance at the MOON! It takes hard ass work and a MENTAL dedication to achieve anything in life. Especially manipulating ones body into change it naturally does not want to do!
N for all the haters out that that love to say. WELL IF I USED STEROIDS I COULD LOOK LIKE THAT! ------- NO YOU COULDNT!!!
Cause if that were true U would be doing it WITHOUT them to begin with. When U lay your little primadonnas heads down on your pillows tonight. Remind yourselves U didn't have what it takes mentally. So your go to is just another excuse in your lives to give up.
Tracking vs Non Tracking Personal pref try them both choose your pref n roll with it. at the end of the day its each individuals personal choice.
Best to all and happy lifting!
"it's not complicated, it's just hard". Love it!
Greg deucett is lurking right now licking his chops
Lurking harder than last time!
Turking
Buy my cookbook
Dude is such a ghey
Greg "gossip queen" Deucett.
Its amazing how much free information is available to the average lifter compared to what my dad was dealing with in the 80s scraping money together for muscle magazines
Yeah I remember doing 30 set workouts from flex magazine 😂
Been lifting for almost 20 years and what you just covered in 20 minutes sums it all up. As much as it seems like common sense (rep ranges , loads , etc) it’s really not. We get tunnel vision, we stall out, and we wonder why we aren’t getting the results we are looking for. Focusing on one goal, strength vs size, and making sure we are training for it are incredibly important and I can’t thank you enough for reminding me about this. Fantastic video, incredible info, you are a game changer in the fitness/strength world. So glad we have someone like you to help us reach new levels. You’re truly amazing.
Also I’d like to say when no one was talking about you before 2023 WSM I had you on that podium. 😂 you did not disappoint! Keep killing it! Looking forward to seeing you, Thor and stoltman battle it out over the next few years. This will be epic. 🎉
I need these two to collab and for Mike to try break Mitch 😂
They had a collab, not training just discussion.
@@iggs67 yeah I know I want a training collab 😂
I'm hoping for an RP leg day, but I think it's gonna take time to get Mitch to that place, being so unreasonably athletic and all.
I think it would be a lot easier to break Mitch than you'd think. Like he said, strongmen don't do a ton of volume in season. Maybe out of szn when hes building work capacity
Maybe make him do full squats
"Even when I squat to full depth" hahaha 🤣 Love it!
Mitch literally has the smoothest transition into merch plugs
Like Mike Mentzer used to say what are you supposed to do if not get stronger, Get weaker. For the natural bodybuilder you have to get stronger, to get bigger.
great stuff as always!
There are a lot of bodybuilder who track their progress. But yeah, there are two types of bodybuilder i guess.
Good stuff! As a 56 year old natural athlete who has 45 years of athletics and gym time, I have definitely needed small breaks over the years to let my neuromuscular system rest. I just had 8 weeks off from lifting, which was my longest break ever. I have always had a physical job, and still ride my bicycle nearly every day. video has helped me understand why my brain was so tired, and how to tailor my training to avoid this again:). Cheers mate!!
8:10 as someone that's more into the (casual) bodybuilding side of fitness, there's different kinds of loads. Focusing solely on "number go up" usually leads you to go to the most energy efficient route, rather then the route which gets the most muscle stretch/time under tension (which is optimal for muscle development).
I do celebrate it whenever I put an extra weight on the bar/cable/whatever, but I also celebrate it when I do the exact same weight but slower/with higher range of motion.
This is very important. Progressive overload isn't limited to more weight. Less rest, dropsets, more volume etc all contribute as well as more time under tension as you said.
When i was much younger and tracked my workouts i felt like my form would get sloppy as i was so focused on lifting more and nothing else so hypertrophy would inevitably suffer.
@@Vas1984 volume, stretch and time under tension and rir are the big 4 in my opinion. Volume usually is the factor with the most deminishing returns (and extra time needed), so I prefer to optimize for the other 3.
Mitch is so intelligent and understands the tasks and all idiosyncrasies which beyond his brute strength gives him such an advantage over other outwardly appearing stronger.Impressive.
That mic cable is holding on for dear life 😂
Love your content. Your a great inspiration to me
I’d love you to expand on the ‘big joint / small joint’ thing you mention as a difference between body builders and strength athletes, I’ve never heard that before
I believe, and I am no expert , but with strength training your joints and tendons become bigger and stronger, do to the load capacity. , and also your bone density will be much more than a bodybuilder.
As a bodybuilder you want your muscles to look as big as possible, without caring how much force they can produce. Smaller joints would make your muscles appear larger.
@@MicaiG that's also why bodybuilders get hurt alot. Because there tendons and joints are weaker. And the focus is on the muscle growth.
@@stevenlake5278Bones being much more dense sounds like a bit much. Not only that strength athletes tend to not care for isolation so those bones aren't under high force.
As a bodybuilder, I track my workouts and also I test my strength within 5-8 rep range vs. 1 with compound movements. I tend to stay away from single joint movements in the beginning of my workouts
I'm a competitive bodybuilder and I've been a national champion in powerlifting as well, the controlled tempo of reps I use in bodybuilding helps when I want to be more explosive in strength endeavours.
Man love these vids lately.
Thank you for your work.
Go on Mitch, you have made the big time now. You can afford to buy a longer microphone lead!
Most of my training for the last 10 years or so has been ~3 days a week, 2-6 rep range, heavy compound loads for power (T&F thrower, rugby player). I'm still putting on both strength and size after 10 years of consistent lifting.
Not plateauing after 10 years is an amazing accomplishment
I'm far from the target audience for these videos, but I'm endlessly researching how to get stronger. I'm a competitive cyclist, so my whole life is endurance and carbs. I want to get stronger, I don't care about size or looks one bit, I just want brute force and ignorance strength to go along with my endurance engine. I do the low rep strength training and it's honestly refreshing to work that side of life, it did take me a few weeks to figure out how to feel for those exercises compared to how I'm used to feeling. I'm used to okay 4 hours on the bike today and off I go, vs when I go lift, I'm trying to push far harder in terms of effort than a 4 hour ride. I'll never cancel out all of the endurance work I have to do no matter how much I lift, but I still channel my inner strongman and move as much weight as I can. Great videos all around.
I split my workouts as such:
3 days on 2 days off. Full body using unrelated supersets for every set(eg. lats to quads, biceps to abs, etc.)
1st day: strength day 3-7 reps close to 1RM.
2nd day: purely hypertrophy focused day 10-12 reps at around 55-65% of 1RM with several myoreps and long legnth partials.
3rd day: muscular endurance focused day at around 25 reps at 40% to 50% 1RM. This I also split into 2 workouts most of time time so I can get a good bit more work in and remain fresh for more sets.
The same lifts are done for each day. When I add a lift, it's done on the second day, then the third, then on the first after the two days of rest or maybe 5 days after that. This allows me to get a good gauge of my strength without having to get as close to 1RM and also develop technique before strength.
I only do 1RM once every two to three months at the end of a load cycle to figure out if I need to make adjustments and to properly gauge strength. I usually only do at most two lifts at 1RM per workout and then save the next ones for the next workout to give enough rest for each of those hard sets. Occasionally, I'll do a 1RM and it's 100% of what I have in the tank so I just have to leave for the day, or at least come back in the evening after recovery. They are super satisfying but, man, they really do drain you mentally.
I appreciate what you're doing man like the big little bro i never had dropping knowledge bombs.
Recently downloaded all your free pdf guides and ive learnt so much, really helping me in my own workouts and my pt clients. Thanks Mitch!
I appreciate interesting content again!
Great video Mitch, really informative even for an experienced lifter
I do have to disagree. As someone who trains with a bodybuilding focus, tracking workouts is insanely important. In order to continue to grow you have to be progressive overloading whether that be reps, sets, or weight.
Second video i watched and already subscribed. Extremely intelligent, and in depth as the fewest of fitness YTbers. Especially 16:30 was the part that sold it for me.
In your conversation with Dr Mike he mentioned high volume increasing strengths specifically in the legs. High volume training regards to our legs may be feasible as legs and arms are different in purpose. So high volume specifically for legs (which is almost half your body) could be possible.
Great content. Still I need to highlight one point after my personal experience of 30+ years of training at the gym, mostly as a bodybuilder. If you are natural, load progression is key also in BB. We need to alternate periods of classic BB training with periods of strenght development. In case you are juiced, the roids are making you progress in muscular development without having to work for strenght. Then, you also tend to work just on machines as they are safer for your joints, as you don't give time to your joints and tendons to adapt to the muscular artificial strenght increase. Obviously, the day you move to a free weight heavy exercise, disasters can strike. As well, for natural powerlifters it is key to develop the musce section to be able to keep on progressing at elite level. All in all, we all want to be as strong as we look, and look as big as we are strong. And honestly you are a very good mix of the two, Mitch
Totally makes sense Mitch! I’ve been strength training for 9 months now just done my first comp🥉 I’m strong AF but my body looks like shit compared to when I was training for size! I’m a lot stronger than I’ve ever been but muscular size has diminished except my posterior chain which I have never trained before! Thanks for the great content 👏
Always great content. Keep it up.
15:00 “even true when I squat to full depth” Not sure if this is reference to the SMOE controversy or not, but hilarious if it is.
It is
@@callum1971 SMOE?
@@kakefisk Strongest Man on Earth
But yes he's known for going deep on squats
I'd love to see you n Mike do a training video where you show each other what you would determine to be the specific training types you each focus on. Not sure how feasible that is in reality. Just seeing Dr Mikes mind get blown straight out his head at the sheer volume you can move would be hilarious.
Very detailed and interesting information. Thanks.
Would love to see a collab between you and Dr. Mike, where you make him do a strongman workout. Yoke walk, Frame carry, Log Press and specifically, keg toss and Atlas stones 😈
and vice versa with Dr Mike's brutal training workouts, would love to see them in eachothers worlds as scientifically minded people
@@suddenswarm5944 Mitch would have to squat to depth and more on hack squats and leg press
To be fair, the video is 4 years old. A lot could have changed, and people constantly discover and learn new things.
Great Video Mitch I Love It 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
If 8:05 is based on the interview with Mike you posted, then you have misunderstood i think. The premise being described is not the literal implementation. Mike tracks his weights, as do as lot of other guys.
But just not at the same level as someone training for strength, I think is the overall point.
@@mediaproof960 Mike definitely does. Other guys, probably not.
So what's the RP Hypertrophy app for?
17:45 beginers 👍🏻
I think part of the reason many bodybuilders appararantly don't care if their numbers improve is that they KNOW their trainingvolume along with their restrictive diet will take a big steaming dump on their numbers anyway.
Thanks Dr. Moose
That’s one thing that is different about Mitch from other power lifters is that he digs into “how to” for working out and hitting different goals
I agree totally. And love your voice in this video. It's like Chucky from rugg rats 😂. Big up the work ethic
Great info… thanks!!
With vehicles, you see people upgrade the engine... and then they twist the stock drive shaft like its copper tubing.
14:58 Balance is going to be especially important when you go to full depth in my experience!
Mariusz Pudnowski would an example who seems to be able to train in both ranges - strength and size.
Thank you Mitch
I really would like to see Mitch go through an RP training session. Legs preferably.
And after that, many collaborations with RP: podcast style, debates, training, …
Typically when Mike talks about volume, he's referring to # of sets usually per week. Set x reps x weight is Volume load and isn't used because it's to individualised to standardize and make volume generalizations about. Secondly, bodybuilders care about weight progression. Its used as a proxy for muscle growth, or an indicator that what you're doing is productive. Usually bodybuilders are using a dynamic double progression, where load is increased when volume reaches the top of the desired range. Cheers
Almost everyone can gain strength and muscle at the same time. The exception is advanced athletes
not true. If you watch many weighlifters or explosive powerlifters, they look like they don't even lift and yet have competition worth of strength. And then some do same training and also grow muscle on side
@@SumppaNah, most weight lifters and powerlifters have massive muscles where it counts. They may have smaller muscles in areas that are not used in their lifts, but they're not usually truly "small"
@@Sumppa This is a byproduct of the IFBB pro mass monsters making everyone else seem "small" in comparison. Weightlifters and power lifters aren't small they just aren't massive like a pro body builder.
button for a training collab between mitch and mike⬇️
Not sure your 275 lb x 10 lunge vs 725 lb x 10 squat comparison backs up your point about single joint exercises not translating to overall strength in something else. You mentioned the overall weight you could do in squats is 3x the weight on lunge. Well yes that is because you didn't account for your body weight which I think you said earlier in the video is around 315 lbs. So disregarding the discussion of it a lunge is really 100% load on one leg, but lets suppose it is, the equation comes to this:
Single Leg Load with Lunge = Lift Load + Body Weight = 275 lbs + 315 lbs = 590 lbs at 10 reps
Single Leg Load with Squat = (Lift Load + body Weight ) / 2 = (725 lbs + 315 lbs) / 2 = 520 lbs at 10 reps
So the total load per leg is really about the same in the scenario you used. Given the front leg load on lunges is probably lower, lets say 85% and the math is then even closer and the load on the leg in squat and lunge in your two scenarios is essentially the same.
Single Leg Load with Lunge = (Lift Load + Body Weight) x 0.85 = (275 lbs + 315 lbs) x 0.85 = 501.5 lbs at 10 reps
However, I could be wrong as I'm not an exercise scientist, nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
While, I understand what you mean. The overall picture is that Lunges do not aid in the skills of the Squat, not even strength much. The movements themselves have no similarities aside from lowering the body thus the load will not equate the same effects.
The feel of the loads and effects of it has to be very similar to the Squat, in order to affect it.
Good stuff 🍻
I just finished a 3 week Smolov jr bench, waiting til Tuesday or so to do my 1rm. I have done Smolov about 9 or 10 times with squat and bench. It friggin hurts, but it works. I hope to hit a 1 rm of 445 for my bench. I am 52 and weigh 272.
for the record with smolov, never try to go too hard early, it adds up wicked and your body will be screaming
The car analogy was 🔥
Dr Mike has all the makings of a strongman, he should switch from bodybuilding to strongman events
Couldn’t agree more. Dude is very strong considering all he cares about is hypertrophy
8:24 Trained, skill-based athletes: drop into a planche and see if that strength transfers. Skills are skills. I would rather define muscular strength by a muscle’s capacity to generate force, which is separate from skill.
Like Justin Harris says, training is about performance, mainly. How you look is much more about nutrition and endocrinology. We know now that bodybuilders train in different ways but get similar results. In powerlifting or strongman there is certain training that HAS to be done. That’s not true in bodybuilding. All of this hypertrophy research and training info for bodybuilding is interesting in its own right, but it’s not the limiting factor for bodybuilding. Most bodybuilders are probably doing WAY more tissue damage/growth stimulation that they can recover from. It’s the recovery and nutrition/hormones in bodybuilding that matter. A lot of the top BB coaches don’t even talk about training with their guys. A powerlifting coach will mostly be talking about training and programming.
@5:00 A better example than Thor is Panagiotis Tarinidis
I'm surprised about the bodybuilders not tracking their weight/reps. I'm mainly bodybuilding right now, I'm on a bulk, and I 100% track my weight/reps and use progressive overload. I've been doing it for 8 years now and it works just as good for bodybuilding as it does for strength training.
Awesome man, thank you, some top notch perspective
I always thought people like Mike and Greg (less so, as he is legit hybrid athlete) generalize too much in a sense of general bodybuilding utilization philosophy, as it is their job at the end of day
But there is much more to general functionality in training than that of bodybuilding, even for an average human regardless of level (considering just mechanical skill)|
Strength training in my opinion is FAR MORE functional than bodybuilding
„I don’t look like I’m incredibly musclebound“ - that’s where I knew, I’m not the target audience
Wow! I’m on time!
As for bodybuilders converting over to strength, it can be done safely, BUT they cannot just jump right into the deep end. They would need to start just like a novice, to allow their cns and tendons to adapt. That's also provided that bodybuilder happened to have thick bones and wide hips - often the bodybuilders with "bad structure" for the stage.
i started with bodybuilding and from day 1 on i tracked my sets and reps. I honestly would have done that even if nobody ever told me because it just seems sensible.
Bodybuilders are most organized of all strength athletes, tracking every rep, every weight lifted,
preparing all meals. Increasing number of reps or adding weight is how progress is measured.
One can't build 25 inch arms without lifting heavy weights. Bones are thickened as a protective
mechanism when muscles are strengthened. "Nobody wants to lift heavy weights" Ronnie Coleman.
'Moderate loads' is my new nickname
My old work use to demand some level of strength but I high degree of endurance example rowing movements pulling in crab pots by hand, torn lats a few times😅
Bodybuilding is about feeling the muscle, so its less likely something you track when it changes every workout
I’m 6’5” 270 and until 4 years ago I never worked out. I’m 46 and I could bench 3 plates my first time in the gym
I think you're overstating how many bodybuilders don't focus on progression - I've tracked every workout since the day I step foot in the gym over a decade ago.
This just shows training between the ears is at least as important 🤘😎🤘
You are one of my favorite powerlifters and you are undoubtedly the undisputed king of the 74 class. I didn't understand what that cut was in the last deadlift, did you do it? Or was it a failure?
Don't ask me why but ive made way more progress this year doing 8-12 rep sets on deadlift than i ever did doing triples, singles, etc. I was plateaud at 505 max, trained differently this year doing all volume work on desdlift and added 60lbs to my max in 5-6 months
Greg doucette incoming
who?
@alexvisan7622 your daddy
M hooper doing a dr mike review harder than last time ....
Strength training volume needs to be high enough for an adaptation to occur. This volume, feeds the adaptation for the intensity. It is not uncommon to only train a heavy lift (intensity) once a week or once every 2 weeks.
The way I look at it (and maybe I’m completely wrong) but for size you want to SHOCK your muscles with high weight lower reps. Strength is more a MARATHON… you want to use lower weights (while increasing over time) with high reps.
Good troll
You can look at it both ways… strength training first then going into bodybuilding will make a great bodybuilder and vice versa.
Just like king Ronnie
Beginners 17:49
I’m not sure I agree regarding CNS fatigue: Menno Henselmans made a great video explaining that CNS fatigue is mediated locallly at the motor unit level. I think this makes a whole lot of sense; even if you fry your CNS for squats, it’s not like you couldn’t go in and do some bicep curls.
I've experienced the opposite, fried cns (spine/neck) on my 8th rep of incline bench and instantly realized that no other reps could help me that day, the workout was over. Also, I have blindly pushed through after cns was fried and in hindsight there was no real growth from those later sets, only risk.
@@richardarmstrong6743 doesn’t make any sense from a physiologic perspective. “Central” CNS fatigue has to do with the motor unit (which is part of the target muscle) being at least partially refractory to stimulus from the motor neuron. It’s called CNS fatigue because the motor neuron is in the spinal cord so technically part of the CNS, but not central per se. Systemic fatigue can be possible but is more common with say running a marathon than weightlifting. Not feeling like training because you’re tired isn’t the same as “central fatigue”
This video below explains it more thoroughly.
ua-cam.com/video/fIcJhKnwp50/v-deo.htmlsi=m-1bnfDceS_FTNEv
I'd be interested to hear Mitch's thoughts on Mariusz, body builder look but with strength and stamina...
Not tracking your workouts as a bodybuilder is because they are on juice.
Natural bodybuilders know how to train. Load isn't the only info for progressive overlord in hypertrophy training. Measurements, muscle building and reps x weight are good indicators you've built muscle.
You can't change lifts every day either otherwise, you're just getting better at the technique (strength) but you can't know you've built muscle on that lift.
My take away from this video is that my insomnia probably explains my history of injury 🤔 programming around insomnia is going to be difficult but at least I have a clue what the problem is.
What about something like Sheiko? Also, many studies show us we don't need to go close to failure for strength, so we could potentially do a decent amount of volume and get stronger. I'm blanking out on the name of the guy who's Russian and was a weightlifter and strongman.
koklayev
@@dennisnordlund902 Thanks
Sheiko is pretty good. But not for advanced, IMO. Too much volume, you'd need less if you're really strong in your weight class. Albeit, this is very individualistic. Big problem with Sheiko is you can't auto regulate it. So, for Late Intermediate to Advanced lifters, it's gonna suck quick.
Great stuff. What is your thought on splitting your training based on movement? By this, I mean training for strength for one big movement, say bench, while doing more bodybuilding type exercises for the rest for period, hitting your goal, then switching to training for strength on squats, then deadlifts. The CNS would have time to recover, provided you have good program, plus you would build some size. I speak as a "normal" gym goer who is not out to compete, but just wants some good numbers and wants to look like I lift while in something other than tank top. Thanks!
I would love to know Mitchell’s opinion on DC. 1 working set HIIT
thankuuuu
8:03 wtf Dr Mike literally has a whole fucking app dedicated to tracking weight, reps, sets, exercices.... Why would you say this bullshit?
Hello Mitch, i have a Question... At witch load IT IS better to use a stronman belt? Deadlift, Overhead Press etc.
Thank you for answering
At what point does one movement for a similar muscle group not translate to another? Like the example with lunges. Would lunges not be a good accessory movement for squat and/or deadlift, if it’s increasing strength and muscle mass in the muscle groups involved for both (notwithstanding practicing the lifts ofc)?
Is not mithcehll wrong when he says that volume is setxrepsxload, when the literature, many coaches/trainers etc, what's taught in school and Chattgpt say that: "Volume=set, reps, time, frekvens. Intesity=load(weight) and RPE"?
It is not your personal bias it is the TRUTH, when i started tracking my reps and doing a double progression my results skyrocketed, getting stronger in "bodybuilding" exercises is the only way to get big naturally. The fluff and pump, its not about the weight, mind muscle connection nonsense has taken years of gains for me as a natural lifter.
Do you recommend strength training for beginners say for 1-3 months as a prefix for hypotrophy training?
I've noticed more now than ever, that training for strength takes a tole on you. A week of hard, higher weights and lower reps... has kicked my ass this week. Watching this has made me a little more comfortable with being so damn tired. Nothing better than seeing small progress every week.
I think bodybuilders( or people who just want to focus building muscle) DO need to track their lifts. The high end bodybuilders who you said don't track are most likely on PED, and while this doesn't discredit their hard work or training to their craft, it does give them an objective metric to track and manipulate (doses and compounds used etc). So if you want to build muscle without them it would be in your best interests to track your lifts as it gives you objective numbers along side the visual appearance to know you building muscle. Just like if you're trying to lose fat, you have a visual assessment of 'i think i look slimmer' but you also track your weight using the scale to give you objective numbers and trends to back up the visual.
what if you do high volume to a degree that still hits your nervous system? cause i typically do sets of 10-15 (i dont really even count reps anymore just based off how my body is feeling) and then on my topset i go until absolute failure then dropset down, with every weight feeling like the last. with dr mikes recent video based on volume, do you think it would be better to not train until failure and leave 2 reps in the tank for max hypertrophy? or continue my "go hard or go home" approach with high volume. if i can get the same results with 80-90% effort and feel a lot better after, and the next day i probably would.