I gained about 2" on my arms last year, in my old age to boot, just bending my elbows.... EZ curl bar.... elbow bending.... superset.... skull Krushers.... elbow bending....followed by more elbow bending with seated supinated concentration curls superset with 1 arm overhead tricep extensions. Elbow bending is the cure for small arms. 💪 FYI,,... you can NEVER change the shape of your muscles. You can ONLY increase the size. My right arm(before I tore the bicep) had a fairly nice peak, while the left arm was a smooth hill. Nothing to be done about that, except get them bigger. And, elbow bending is how you do it.😎
as someone who does a lot of compound movements, my arms grew because of isolation movements like curls and skullcrushers. My lockouts for my presses improved because of isolation work.
weighted dips helped with my triceps but my arm genetics still suck haha...def need a dedicated arm day though if you really wanna grow and not be super torso dominant
you have explained this very well. also do you see being an ectomorph as a bad thing?. i do find to be building muscle faster than most people but i have a hard time putting on weight
Being an ectomorph isn’t a bad thing. In fact depending on your goal could be beneficial. When you say you have a hard time putting on weight, my usual default is: 1.) are you tracking calories consistently and monitoring body weight day over day? 2.) have you tried force feeding yourself? Sometimes this can be a necessity if you’re not used to eating a lot of food
Can you take a powerlifting approach to a building bigger arms and be successful? I understand your body only knows stimuli, but is this approach to taxing for isolation work? I.e. Applying the texas method to include a strict barbell curl and skull crushers. Thank you
Wouldn’t say it’s too taxing. Would just say to make sure technique is dialed in and if it is, stick with it for a bit and see what comes of it. I’d be interested to hear you report back on it!
I have really good arm genetics (shit in every other body part) in terms of belly and insertion long and has a peak triceps as well but I was always they skinny kid with twig arms. When i first started lifting I wanted big arms so after a while I trained them up 4x per week. As you can guess they blew up, I trained heavy mid to low reps, high reps, super sets, drop sets the works and it worked. Multiple dedicated arm days and compounds. This was years ago now but basically because of that I now only need to train basically compounds to retain like 80% of my max arm size. But i earned it with insane isowork for years. The fact the compound bandwagon is swinging around again is hilarious. The amount of shit that comes back into fashion regarding fitness industry in the last 10 years is astonishing things have basically repeated over again twice in 10 years.
Lmao. Fitness educators gotta make their content off SOMETHING i guess. I’m all for people making money off their knowledge, but let’s not act like there’s been ANYTHING revolutionary in the industry in the last 30 years. We all instinctively know what works at this point, now it just becomes a matter of preference and how much we WANT to train. I think the real discussion starts in terms of trade offs and how to maximize for one’s schedule/lifestyle. “What do i get when I train ‘X’ way?”
Showing my age, but all else equal, more information = less critical thinking. Information overload = no critical thinking. Building size is about maximizing recruitment, which is a skill, ie. you need to develop and practice it. Pullups for max reps = min bicep involvement. Pullups to build biceps = max bicep involvement.
This is one of my “issues” i have with evidence based communities. I think they’re valuable in terms of constantly looking for better ways to do things, but seems to be detrimental to MOST people because of the massaging of studies for the sake of content creation. If we really think about it, there hasn’t been anything revolutionary in the last 20-30 years that’s changed how bodybuilders train. Sure there are some things that may have made some “minor tweaks” to things but overall, we’ve pretty much known what works for awhile now. Most people will do anything to shortcut the work
@@drewdowd.22 Fully understanding something is 90% of being it. It's a process of personal discovery, not mimicry. You need to be able to seriously look at the situation, determine WTF is really going on, then set appropriate goals in a constructive developmental direction. Gross effort gets you from the sofa to basic functionality. From there it's all about refinement. You have to understand specifically where to direct your attention and effort.
@@drewdowd.22 Nuance and introspection. People complain that it's all a talent show, but their gross efforts lack the detail to do anything more than elevate them to their level of natural talent. Serious development begins after that. It's what you do when you run out of talent... which is like 90% of the game.
great content as always! 👏👏 i’m totally for isolation exercise: more essy on the joint, safer, but most of all: the target muscle would be the limiting factor and you can push it to failure and macimise its growth!! One question: do you think it is suboptimal to train biceps after back (or triceps after chest) cause you will train them already fatigued to a certain point? or it makes no different if you train after back or in another session?
If your goal would be to maximize growth in those areas and you were doing that, then you could do a couple of things: 1.) add more work throughout the week to those areas on other days. 2.) you could just do biceps before you train back ( and triceps before chest) I don’t think it’s “wrong”, but in general I would either do prioritize arms FIRST in a workout at least 1 time per week (and train them 2 times a week) and see how you respond
@@drewdowd.22those are good advice but in my case: 1- i’m already training biceps (and triceps) every other day 2- training biceps after back i don’t feel them so much fatigued; training back after biceps would be almost impossible to not have biceps themselfes as a likitinf factor 😞
I think overall if you are training them every other day like you said, it’s fine to keep them with your back work / chest work, OR you could just do Chest/Bi’s, Back, Tri’s and see how you respond
But at the end of the day general advice is named as such based on what's going to benefit the majority of the people seeking the advice. In this case, that would be beginner and intermediate lifters. If you have these type of lifters overemphasis arm isolation training they're simply not going to get much out of it which is why prioritizing compound lifts above all else is recommended for these populations. If you have any decent amount of success building muscle and have spent enough time in a public gym then this should be apparent, as we've all seen these beginner lifters who put too big of an emphasis on isolation training and never seem to make any meaningful progress. Obviously, that's not the only thing these lifters get wrong but it is a major factor. So I'm not saying arm work isn't important at all and you shouldn't be doing it. I'm just saying that beginner lifters should not be overemphasizing arm isolation work prior to building their base. You can certainly do both concurrently, but that's not what I typically see in the public gyms. For more experienced lifters? Yes, 100% do your arm work and do it with intent and progression in mind. I don't agree that it's more important than general pressing and pulling strength, I still thinking you should be emphasizing both but there's a case to be made otherwise if you need to de-prioritze things to pour all of your energy into a certain goal. I don't think most people have to worry about that but it's a possibility. With that being said I wouldn't agree that compound lifts don't make up the bulk of your arm progress. Even guys like Alex Leonidas (who has made excellent arm progress in the past couple years by emphasizing isolation work) made the bulk of their gains by prioritizing general strength progression (going from 16.25 to over 17). Obviously he was still doing arm isolation work when he was stuck at 16.25 but he wasn't training as he does now with a major arm emphasis. Basically it's my belief that arm work becomes more important the more advanced you become but you should still be hitting your compound lifts hard either way.
I actually agree with a lot of what you say. As i said in the video, the reason people DO tend to get more out of compounds is because compounds tend to be pushed harder by beginners. Main argument IM making is in terms of hypertrophy specifically. At the end of the day, it all comes down to what you’re trying to prioritize and what “things” are going to get you closer to the goal. If someone is trying to “grow their arms” I’m going to prescribe exercises where their purpose is to provide as much force as possible at the elbow joint (both extension and flexion). If someone says “hey i want to put on more OVERALL mass” then yes, i am going to priority compound movements with fewer isolations. But, really like your comment here and love what you have to add to the conversation! PS - i was a pretty high level powerlifter for awhile and i think for *most* people, strength training overall may be a better option (for at least 60-70% of what they do) if they’re not trying to optimize their physique
@@drewdowd.22 I hear what you're saying but I would still argue that even if the inexperienced lifter trained their arm isolation work just as hard as their compounds they still wouldn't have much to show for their effort. Because whether or not they prioritize arm work, their arms are still going to grow significantly from general strength progression from getting stronger at pressing and pulling. And this progression is low hanging fruit as they have so much progress to be made in these basic lifts. Now, I would never tell these lifters not to do their arm work because that's fun for them and is going to keep them interested in training, but lets be honest, arm isolation training is just not going to do much in your first couple years of training. That's been my experience at least from training myself and training others.
I do coach. Getting the forms and stuff put together for applications at the moment. In the meantime feel free to email me if you have any specific questions. Happy to hop on a call and help where i can even if you just need a couple answers
@@drewdowd.22 Right now I just coach myself but maybe one day I'll get a proper coach. I was just meaning you seem very knowledgeable and could help others, but seems you're already doing that. I think you might cry if you saw my current programming haha.
I gained about 2" on my arms last year, in my old age to boot, just bending my elbows....
EZ curl bar.... elbow bending.... superset.... skull Krushers.... elbow bending....followed by more elbow bending with seated supinated concentration curls superset with 1 arm overhead tricep extensions.
Elbow bending is the cure for small arms. 💪
FYI,,... you can NEVER change the shape of your muscles. You can ONLY increase the size. My right arm(before I tore the bicep) had a fairly nice peak, while the left arm was a smooth hill.
Nothing to be done about that, except get them bigger.
And, elbow bending is how you do it.😎
It’s so funny how simple it really is.
“Make elbow bending harder over time” is pretty much it 😂
as someone who does a lot of compound movements, my arms grew because of isolation movements like curls and skullcrushers. My lockouts for my presses improved because of isolation work.
Yo just wanna say I’ve been binging your videos and really resonate w the way you articulate information. Thanks man 🤝
Appreciate you
believing that crap is why im still trying to fix my lacking arms 10 years later
Good talk
Glad somebody said it.
I’ve noticed my arms blew up after doing pull ups consistently. However, I’m going to start doing isolation like bicep curls
This happens for a lot of people. If it’s working, i say keep sticking with it!
For me, i plateau’d and HAD to add isolation work in
I have insane genetics, just ask my shrink
Great video. Commenting for algorithm
weighted dips helped with my triceps but my arm genetics still suck haha...def need a dedicated arm day though if you really wanna grow and not be super torso dominant
My arm genetics suck too relative to other areas of my body. Feel like i look like an orangutan half the time lol.
Dedicated arm days help for sure
you have explained this very well. also do you see being an ectomorph as a bad thing?. i do find to be building muscle faster than most people but i have a hard time putting on weight
Being an ectomorph isn’t a bad thing. In fact depending on your goal could be beneficial.
When you say you have a hard time putting on weight, my usual default is:
1.) are you tracking calories consistently and monitoring body weight day over day?
2.) have you tried force feeding yourself? Sometimes this can be a necessity if you’re not used to eating a lot of food
Can you take a powerlifting approach to a building bigger arms and be successful? I understand your body only knows stimuli, but is this approach to taxing for isolation work? I.e. Applying the texas method to include a strict barbell curl and skull crushers. Thank you
Wouldn’t say it’s too taxing.
Would just say to make sure technique is dialed in and if it is, stick with it for a bit and see what comes of it.
I’d be interested to hear you report back on it!
@@drewdowd.22 Will do! Your video was a wakeup call. Thanks for the great content and response. Earned my Sub and like! Thanks again!
Appreciate you starting a conversation!
I have really good arm genetics (shit in every other body part) in terms of belly and insertion long and has a peak triceps as well but I was always they skinny kid with twig arms. When i first started lifting I wanted big arms so after a while I trained them up 4x per week. As you can guess they blew up, I trained heavy mid to low reps, high reps, super sets, drop sets the works and it worked. Multiple dedicated arm days and compounds. This was years ago now but basically because of that I now only need to train basically compounds to retain like 80% of my max arm size. But i earned it with insane isowork for years.
The fact the compound bandwagon is swinging around again is hilarious. The amount of shit that comes back into fashion regarding fitness industry in the last 10 years is astonishing things have basically repeated over again twice in 10 years.
Lmao. Fitness educators gotta make their content off SOMETHING i guess. I’m all for people making money off their knowledge, but let’s not act like there’s been ANYTHING revolutionary in the industry in the last 30 years.
We all instinctively know what works at this point, now it just becomes a matter of preference and how much we WANT to train.
I think the real discussion starts in terms of trade offs and how to maximize for one’s schedule/lifestyle.
“What do i get when I train ‘X’ way?”
Showing my age, but all else equal, more information = less critical thinking. Information overload = no critical thinking. Building size is about maximizing recruitment, which is a skill, ie. you need to develop and practice it.
Pullups for max reps = min bicep involvement. Pullups to build biceps = max bicep involvement.
This is one of my “issues” i have with evidence based communities.
I think they’re valuable in terms of constantly looking for better ways to do things, but seems to be detrimental to MOST people because of the massaging of studies for the sake of content creation.
If we really think about it, there hasn’t been anything revolutionary in the last 20-30 years that’s changed how bodybuilders train.
Sure there are some things that may have made some “minor tweaks” to things but overall, we’ve pretty much known what works for awhile now.
Most people will do anything to shortcut the work
@@drewdowd.22 Fully understanding something is 90% of being it. It's a process of personal discovery, not mimicry. You need to be able to seriously look at the situation, determine WTF is really going on, then set appropriate goals in a constructive developmental direction.
Gross effort gets you from the sofa to basic functionality. From there it's all about refinement. You have to understand specifically where to direct your attention and effort.
Nuance is the word of the century
@@drewdowd.22 Nuance and introspection. People complain that it's all a talent show, but their gross efforts lack the detail to do anything more than elevate them to their level of natural talent.
Serious development begins after that. It's what you do when you run out of talent... which is like 90% of the game.
great content as always! 👏👏
i’m totally for isolation exercise: more essy on the joint, safer, but most of all: the target muscle would be the limiting factor and you can push it to failure and macimise its growth!!
One question: do you think it is suboptimal to train biceps after back (or triceps after chest) cause you will train them already fatigued to a certain point? or it makes no different if you train after back or in another session?
If your goal would be to maximize growth in those areas and you were doing that, then you could do a couple of things:
1.) add more work throughout the week to those areas on other days.
2.) you could just do biceps before you train back ( and triceps before chest)
I don’t think it’s “wrong”, but in general I would either do prioritize arms FIRST in a workout at least 1 time per week (and train them 2 times a week) and see how you respond
@@drewdowd.22those are good advice but in my case:
1- i’m already training biceps (and triceps) every other day
2- training biceps after back i don’t feel them so much fatigued; training back after biceps would be almost impossible to not have biceps themselfes as a likitinf factor
😞
limiting factor
I think overall if you are training them every other day like you said, it’s fine to keep them with your back work / chest work, OR you could just do Chest/Bi’s, Back, Tri’s and see how you respond
@@drewdowd.22 yes.. i was just thinking about try that:
- back / triceps
- chest / biceps
you read my mind!!🤩🤩
But at the end of the day general advice is named as such based on what's going to benefit the majority of the people seeking the advice. In this case, that would be beginner and intermediate lifters. If you have these type of lifters overemphasis arm isolation training they're simply not going to get much out of it which is why prioritizing compound lifts above all else is recommended for these populations.
If you have any decent amount of success building muscle and have spent enough time in a public gym then this should be apparent, as we've all seen these beginner lifters who put too big of an emphasis on isolation training and never seem to make any meaningful progress. Obviously, that's not the only thing these lifters get wrong but it is a major factor.
So I'm not saying arm work isn't important at all and you shouldn't be doing it. I'm just saying that beginner lifters should not be overemphasizing arm isolation work prior to building their base. You can certainly do both concurrently, but that's not what I typically see in the public gyms.
For more experienced lifters? Yes, 100% do your arm work and do it with intent and progression in mind. I don't agree that it's more important than general pressing and pulling strength, I still thinking you should be emphasizing both but there's a case to be made otherwise if you need to de-prioritze things to pour all of your energy into a certain goal. I don't think most people have to worry about that but it's a possibility.
With that being said I wouldn't agree that compound lifts don't make up the bulk of your arm progress. Even guys like Alex Leonidas (who has made excellent arm progress in the past couple years by emphasizing isolation work) made the bulk of their gains by prioritizing general strength progression (going from 16.25 to over 17). Obviously he was still doing arm isolation work when he was stuck at 16.25 but he wasn't training as he does now with a major arm emphasis.
Basically it's my belief that arm work becomes more important the more advanced you become but you should still be hitting your compound lifts hard either way.
I actually agree with a lot of what you say.
As i said in the video, the reason people DO tend to get more out of compounds is because compounds tend to be pushed harder by beginners.
Main argument IM making is in terms of hypertrophy specifically.
At the end of the day, it all comes down to what you’re trying to prioritize and what “things” are going to get you closer to the goal.
If someone is trying to “grow their arms” I’m going to prescribe exercises where their purpose is to provide as much force as possible at the elbow joint (both extension and flexion).
If someone says “hey i want to put on more OVERALL mass” then yes, i am going to priority compound movements with fewer isolations.
But, really like your comment here and love what you have to add to the conversation!
PS - i was a pretty high level powerlifter for awhile and i think for *most* people, strength training overall may be a better option (for at least 60-70% of what they do) if they’re not trying to optimize their physique
@@drewdowd.22 I hear what you're saying but I would still argue that even if the inexperienced lifter trained their arm isolation work just as hard as their compounds they still wouldn't have much to show for their effort. Because whether or not they prioritize arm work, their arms are still going to grow significantly from general strength progression from getting stronger at pressing and pulling. And this progression is low hanging fruit as they have so much progress to be made in these basic lifts.
Now, I would never tell these lifters not to do their arm work because that's fun for them and is going to keep them interested in training, but lets be honest, arm isolation training is just not going to do much in your first couple years of training. That's been my experience at least from training myself and training others.
Why don't you coach brother? You seem to have a lot of knowledge :)
I do coach. Getting the forms and stuff put together for applications at the moment. In the meantime feel free to email me if you have any specific questions. Happy to hop on a call and help where i can even if you just need a couple answers
@@drewdowd.22 Right now I just coach myself but maybe one day I'll get a proper coach. I was just meaning you seem very knowledgeable and could help others, but seems you're already doing that.
I think you might cry if you saw my current programming haha.
Happy to review it if you’d like