I agree, these saws are very easy to work on. That makes working on them so much more fun. The simplicity of the design allows the parts and saw to be made with quality and also has kept the price down. Though the saw may be a tad heavy, however, once you modify them their weight isn't much of an issue anymore. Thanks for the time and effort you put in to make this all of this incredible content.
Love my 590, shipped it to Iowa Performance Saws soon as I paid for it and when I got it back was absolutely impressed with it. Has tons on torque. Ran 24” Stihl bar and 33RS Full comp chain
This is a brilliantly dont video. Great way of showing the gain throughout. Bits of information critical to those who want to tackle the task. This platform has lots to offer, that is for sure!
I love your port work. It always looks so neat and precise it looks like it was done with a CNC machine. I'd like to think I could someday get mine to look that good but I'm afraid it's like beautiful hand writing. You either have it or you don't regardless of how much writing you do. I'm 56 so I'll just have to settle for what I've got with both handwriting and port work. l love this channel and very much appreciate the time and patients it takes to produce these videos. Great job and I hope you keep it up and your channel continues to grow.
Thanks Joe. 👍 Been re-reading your old cs590 thread on OPE forum. Ran my 590 for several years with only the muffler mod. Couple days ago filed the crank key and epoxied the hi jet shut(what an improvement!)....made a timing wheel last night...getting ready for porting. Anyway, your shared knowledge has been quite helpful and appreciated. 🍻
I played around in steps with my muffler mod and found a setup I REALLY like. Instead of grinding that top tube-holding plate on the back face, I ground out the SIDES of that piece. Big fat triangles. This let me keep the part that directly faces the port in tact while keeping the pressure in the first chamber down. Next I drilled the holes in the central muffler baffle several sizes up, the ones I could reach anyways. Be sure to deburr. Could probably add a couple holes if you had a good way to fixture it steady. Lastly I took the factory outlet deflector and did some metal forming to open it up (taller, domed a little on the top) so there was way more area for the exhaust path. Has a GREAT tone AND a bit of that crackle, but because there is no direct path out its NOT too loud. Makes me smile when I run it. Only thing I'm missing now is my Dyno Joe port job. I'd love to have more compression and the port work done. Buuuut wife is trying to buy a new building for our business so i'm stuck in jealous purgatory. In time....
That bottom piece on the deflector Comes right off , but it only has 3 holes to screw in. Basically if you remove that bottom deflector and then bend up top part there's no need to even buy the aftermarket one
@jaysonsetzer2287 Yup thats exactly what I did. I meant the part of the muffler underneath all of that, the part that divides the two resonating chambers with the tube. I ground the sheet around that tube but only on the sides and not on the back jearest the back port. It allowed pressure to bypass the front chamber but without a straight shot from the port to outside. Good flow, not terrible loud.
You are a pro's pro! I made an offer on a 620 locally. If I get it, I'm going to contact you and get on your waiting list for a port job. You're the man
You should do some dyno testing with different fuels. E10 pump fuel, non ethanol, and oxygenated and/or high octane. I’ve been running VP T4 in a few saws and I’ve been pretty impressed. Not massive gains but noticeable.
@@williamwallace9620 T4 is oxygenated, wanna say six percent if I remember correctly. I haven’t noticed a decrease in power running higher octane fuel. Yes it burns slower but we’re talking fractions of a second. One thing that most people overlook on air cooled engines is operating temps. Air cooled engines run much hotter than water cooled engines. I’ve personally seen temps in the 450F range measured near the spark plug during a long cut. Bare minimum I run 91 octane non ethanol fuel in my saws. If it’s been spiced up I run 93.
@@williamwallace9620 exactly. I get five gallons for $100 dollars. Pricey yes but less expensive than the one gallon ethanol free pre mix sold at saw shops. That stuff is $25 to $35 dollars per gallon. In general I run 91 non ethanol, only running the T4 in the spicy saws.
Joe thanks for the great videos. Are you able to optimize a build for torque at a modest RPM vs all out horsepower at a high rpm? I understand the mathematical relationship between torque and HP but wonder if you can move the peak back to gain some grunt.
I have both saws run my saws pretty much everyday as that I cut wood for a living the one big thing I’ve noticed in the 620 is the higher reving and a lot smoother less vibration mine are stock as are my bigger saws would love to do some porting in the future
I bought the 590 from Home Depot, then found out about the 620pw. Returned the 590 and got the 620. Figured it would cost more to mod the 590 than to just get the 620.
Joe.. thanks for doing these videos. You just saved me hundreds of dollars. I have a 620p (no base gasket, muffler mod) and i'm doing bigger and bigger timber. I wanted a "bigger" saw but for only occasional use. About got the holz 046. Looking at these charts, id only be getting a marginal increase in power, if any. I'd be way better off to get mine ported by you and step on up to the 395 clone for running a long bar. I underestimated my 620. I shouldnt have. I'm running an 8 pin with a 22 24" 3/8 setup and it just eats and eats. I'm going to need a lot more saw to beat what I already got. As soon as I can sell some firewood and/or some logs I'll have some saws to send you way. I want my 501 to cut like my 620 and my 620 to run like the one you dynoed :-D
Couple ?’s Did you not use the bottom ring on the 620 piston, if so why? Will those port #’s work on the 590 cylinder? Why does the 590 wake up quicker, Is it due to a shorter exhaust length vs the 620 and needing the muffler spacers?
Exhaust port was pretty wide, didn't want to catch the ring. 590 wake up nice, because they stsrt out at lower power, and end up very close to the same peak power. So the percentage gain feels better
Fun fact the echo cs-680 68cc is still available new. And is a proven design that been around since 90s. I can't afford a new 590 620 but found a used 680 for $300 . And couldn't be happier and would bet it beats any new 590, 620 . And the 680 has some great feature those don't , a quick change filter, and bar oil button to shoot more bar oil when needed on heavy cuts.
Joe Wow Good gains with a muff mod and timing change. Two questions Why do you think the timber wolf got so bad And do you think the timing change would help your builds as well.
@@dynojoemods2764 I cant remember what you called those pieces that extended down off the cylinder into the crank case but did you machine off equal parts? I know they had to be shaved so they would bottom out.
It took me only a few minutes to file 1/3 off the 590 key. Straight tin snips and a file made short work of the inner deflector. I would suggest 3/16 instead of 1/4 for drilling the two holes to maybe keep it a little quieter. Thanks Joe. With only those mods and a Tsumura 24" bar I was happy enough with it to sell my 2.5 lb heavier 372.
Everything is interchangeable between them. The flywheel key on the 590 can be filed down or buy one already modified 2 advance the ignition timing instead of buying a 620 coil
What did you pound the new nozzle in with - so you didn't damage it? Is it hard to do? I have the little spring loaded punch to get the old one out. Or, does the new one with a smaller hole, or no hole? go in pretty easy.
I missed that in the video I used a brass punch to drive mine in to not damage the brass, not sure if he did it another way the camera blurred on that close up shot
I’ve got one of these I picked up super cheap that I’m actually putting the bolt on’s just like you did but with the 590 cylinder, wondering if I should buy the 620 cylinder or put that money towards porting the 590 one. Anyone done both or have any suggestions one way or another thanks!
I am not necessarily a wrencher but I can Modify the muffler and change a key and epoxy a hole. With that being said What would you suggest I do to make my 590 optimal without a cylinder change to a 620 or porting?
Good muffler mod. All you have to do is drill a big hole where he drilled those 2 small ones and remove the lower plate on the deflector(no need to buy the aftermarket one). Removing that lower deflector plate only takes like 50 seconds by grinding the 2 spots where it's saudered to the upper. The 6 degree timing key is nice but instead of putting jb weld on the stock carb just get the aftermarket 620 carb that sawsalvage sells. The air inlet is a little bigger. The carb and timing key should only be $60
hi,just a quick opinion please. I have a new 261 and after running it for about 10 tanks with stihl hp ultra oil on 40:1 ratio the top of the piston is completly black...is this normal or anything wrong? spark plug is the right color...saw is running very well but didn`t expect that to happen so fast and also little bit of build up on the exhaust port
I agree, these saws are very easy to work on. That makes working on them so much more fun. The simplicity of the design allows the parts and saw to be made with quality and also has kept the price down. Though the saw may be a tad heavy, however, once you modify them their weight isn't much of an issue anymore. Thanks for the time and effort you put in to make this all of this incredible content.
Bolted on a 620 carb and coil along with a similar muffler mod. Worked out really great. Awesome saw now!
THANK YOU!! Nailed it, perfection!! All the mods in 1 video, amazing results! Can’t thank you enough Joe H!
I love these 590/620 platforms.
Glad you like them!
good one huh?
@@oakiewoodsman yea good video on all the mods.
Love my 590, shipped it to Iowa Performance Saws soon as I paid for it and when I got it back was absolutely impressed with it. Has tons on torque. Ran 24” Stihl bar and 33RS Full comp chain
This is a brilliantly dont video. Great way of showing the gain throughout. Bits of information critical to those who want to tackle the task. This platform has lots to offer, that is for sure!
I love your port work. It always looks so neat and precise it looks like it was done with a CNC machine. I'd like to think I could someday get mine to look that good but I'm afraid it's like beautiful hand writing. You either have it or you don't regardless of how much writing you do. I'm 56 so I'll just have to settle for what I've got with both handwriting and port work. l love this channel and very much appreciate the time and patients it takes to produce these videos. Great job and I hope you keep it up and your channel continues to grow.
Excellent video Joe. Very well done. I just love them Echos.
Thanks Joe. 👍 Been re-reading your old cs590 thread on OPE forum. Ran my 590 for several years with only the muffler mod. Couple days ago filed the crank key and epoxied the hi jet shut(what an improvement!)....made a timing wheel last night...getting ready for porting. Anyway, your shared knowledge has been quite helpful and appreciated. 🍻
I played around in steps with my muffler mod and found a setup I REALLY like.
Instead of grinding that top tube-holding plate on the back face, I ground out the SIDES of that piece. Big fat triangles. This let me keep the part that directly faces the port in tact while keeping the pressure in the first chamber down. Next I drilled the holes in the central muffler baffle several sizes up, the ones I could reach anyways. Be sure to deburr. Could probably add a couple holes if you had a good way to fixture it steady. Lastly I took the factory outlet deflector and did some metal forming to open it up (taller, domed a little on the top) so there was way more area for the exhaust path.
Has a GREAT tone AND a bit of that crackle, but because there is no direct path out its NOT too loud. Makes me smile when I run it.
Only thing I'm missing now is my Dyno Joe port job. I'd love to have more compression and the port work done. Buuuut wife is trying to buy a new building for our business so i'm stuck in jealous purgatory. In time....
That bottom piece on the deflector Comes right off , but it only has 3 holes to screw in. Basically if you remove that bottom deflector and then bend up top part there's no need to even buy the aftermarket one
@jaysonsetzer2287 Yup thats exactly what I did. I meant the part of the muffler underneath all of that, the part that divides the two resonating chambers with the tube. I ground the sheet around that tube but only on the sides and not on the back jearest the back port. It allowed pressure to bypass the front chamber but without a straight shot from the port to outside. Good flow, not terrible loud.
I think we all gave a soft spot for Echo saws, maybe not the most powerful but a great lasting product.
They are the most powerful when opened up properly though
I might end up getting one of these I see everyone having so much fun with them.
cannot wait to get mine back from Super Dave
@@oakiewoodsman I'm so happy I took a chance and pulled the trigger! That 620p is one of my favorite saws (not to mention the cheapest!)
correct! @@jimbusmaximus4624
100% the best video to date Joe👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you!
I had never seen this one and I was missing out for sure!
nice work Sir ! much better than others to have the proof of the dyno, to see the curves.
You are a pro's pro! I made an offer on a 620 locally. If I get it, I'm going to contact you and get on your waiting list for a port job. You're the man
Great Video Joe! Thanks for the Shoutout buddy! Keep the vids coming
awesome video .peace an love from scotland and the buckin army .
You asked if you bought one and should’ve bought the other. YES. Bought 590 not knowing about the 620. It’s ok I’ll get one soon.
Great video joe
Glad you enjoyed it
👍🆙DW
You should do some dyno testing with different fuels. E10 pump fuel, non ethanol, and oxygenated and/or high octane. I’ve been running VP T4 in a few saws and I’ve been pretty impressed. Not massive gains but noticeable.
@@williamwallace9620 T4 is oxygenated, wanna say six percent if I remember correctly. I haven’t noticed a decrease in power running higher octane fuel. Yes it burns slower but we’re talking fractions of a second. One thing that most people overlook on air cooled engines is operating temps. Air cooled engines run much hotter than water cooled engines. I’ve personally seen temps in the 450F range measured near the spark plug during a long cut. Bare minimum I run 91 octane non ethanol fuel in my saws. If it’s been spiced up I run 93.
@@williamwallace9620 exactly. I get five gallons for $100 dollars. Pricey yes but less expensive than the one gallon ethanol free pre mix sold at saw shops. That stuff is $25 to $35 dollars per gallon. In general I run 91 non ethanol, only running the T4 in the spicy saws.
@@williamwallace9620 you’ll definitely notice a difference with the T4 compared to E10 or non ethanol.
Great video and thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing with us. Very helpful
Joe thanks for the great videos. Are you able to optimize a build for torque at a modest RPM vs all out horsepower at a high rpm? I understand the mathematical relationship between torque and HP but wonder if you can move the peak back to gain some grunt.
Thanks Joe!! Great info !
just watched the rest of vid thanx for walbro part#
Man; not bad gains for a muffler mod!
Remember he put a 6 degree advance key
@@troybeans34 true.
@@backyardfirewood9852and ported 620 cylinder and piston
Minute 19:44 I couldn’t hear the 4 stroke at 12.5 like you said Joe. What should I be listening for when adjusting my Timberwolf
Great vid man 👍🏻
I have both saws run my saws pretty much everyday as that I cut wood for a living the one big thing I’ve noticed in the 620 is the higher reving and a lot smoother less vibration mine are stock as are my bigger saws would love to do some porting in the future
Great video , thanks
I bought the 590 from Home Depot, then found out about the 620pw. Returned the 590 and got the 620. Figured it would cost more to mod the 590 than to just get the 620.
The best thing about the 590 is it's priced like a 45 or 50 cc saw from other brands.
Adding to the value of a 620 is the saw has around 85-90% of the power of a 7310 for 400$ less.
👍🆙SD
Good information buddy!
Crazy how much echo prices raised, but they been cheap and still are a great deal.
Great job! 👍
Thanks!
Joe.. thanks for doing these videos. You just saved me hundreds of dollars.
I have a 620p (no base gasket, muffler mod) and i'm doing bigger and bigger timber. I wanted a "bigger" saw but for only occasional use. About got the holz 046. Looking at these charts, id only be getting a marginal increase in power, if any. I'd be way better off to get mine ported by you and step on up to the 395 clone for running a long bar.
I underestimated my 620. I shouldnt have. I'm running an 8 pin with a 22 24" 3/8 setup and it just eats and eats. I'm going to need a lot more saw to beat what I already got.
As soon as I can sell some firewood and/or some logs I'll have some saws to send you way. I want my 501 to cut like my 620 and my 620 to run like the one you dynoed :-D
great comment. Good way to look at it man!
Thank s Joe!!!
Couple ?’s
Did you not use the bottom ring on the 620 piston, if so why?
Will those port #’s work on the 590 cylinder?
Why does the 590 wake up quicker, Is it due to a shorter exhaust length vs the 620 and needing the muffler spacers?
Exhaust port was pretty wide, didn't want to catch the ring. 590 wake up nice, because they stsrt out at lower power, and end up very close to the same peak power. So the percentage gain feels better
great video thank you
590's rule!
620PW does. 😂
Where do I get one of those digital degree gauges with the drill chuck? Or is that a custom deal
Nice video! That’s what I’ve been waiting for!
I just purchased a little used 590, wanting to know if you sell the key, Jet and o😆-ring kits.
Sawsalvage.co offers those parts for sale.
Can you do the muffler mod without having to tune the carb/remove the limiter tabs?
It is always a good idea to check the tune after a muffler mod
Fun fact the echo cs-680 68cc is still available new. And is a proven design that been around since 90s.
I can't afford a new 590 620 but found a used 680 for $300 . And couldn't be happier and would bet it beats any new 590, 620 . And the 680 has some great feature those don't , a quick change filter, and bar oil button to shoot more bar oil when needed on heavy cuts.
BUT...no compression release. At 77 and some Arthur chewing on my shoulder........
Joe
Wow Good gains with a muff mod and timing change. Two questions
Why do you think the timber wolf got so bad
And do you think the timing change would help your builds as well.
I'm sure it was a bit lean and running hard with a dull chain. I do advance some models.
Did you also add the 620 coil?
No, still the 590 coil
So, without doing a base gasket delete and only machining the cylinder. What kind of squish should a guy aim for?
I like to set mine .025"
@@dynojoemods2764 I cant remember what you called those pieces that extended down off the cylinder into the crank case but did you machine off equal parts? I know they had to be shaved so they would bottom out.
I also can't find the part number for the unlimited coil in the video again.
Just imagine a cylinder with changeable heads and reed valves that would be a goddamm monster
What octane fuel and brand 2 stroke oil do you use? I've personally been running VP premixed 97 octane ethanol free!
I cannot hear any difference before and after the nozzle change out. How could you tell it needed it?
I bought Stihl MS362C-R and Husky 562XP wrap handle. I'm having buyers remorse.
Might as well buy an Echo CS620PW.
🤪
They don't oil well. Everyone says just buy the 462 oil pump, but that puts you close to 462 price...
Your 562xp must be broken, all mine would outcut a 362 & 620 put together. No comparison in the 60cc realm...
How did you install the new nozzle and not mess it up?
I may have missed it but how much of those gains are from just adding the 620 cylinder?
😊
Hey dyno joe would this muffler port work on a husqvarna 562
How fast should this saw run unloaded with a 620 carb, new deflector, and timing key? Is 13K too fast to be safe?
how did you seal the base without the gasket?
You da man.
You can cut the stock deflector and shave the stock key for the same results. No need to spend all the money.
Yes, you can do that as well. Some people just enjoy the fancy pieces, and simplicity of just swapping things out. Both work, 1 just cost more.
...and saves time 👍 ~
It took me only a few minutes to file 1/3 off the 590 key. Straight tin snips and a file made short work of the inner deflector. I would suggest 3/16 instead of 1/4 for drilling the two holes to maybe keep it a little quieter.
Thanks Joe. With only those mods and a Tsumura 24" bar I was happy enough with it to sell my 2.5 lb heavier 372.
do similar mods exist for a 4910?
They do offer a bolt on exhaust deflector
What did you do to the carb?
It's still loud as a mf with just those two holes. Also..noticeable power gains with just this.
Soft seize ?
Do you sell muffler mods? I'd like one for my 620
Can you use a 590 piston in a 620 cylinder on a 590 saw?
Is the 620 ignition coil a compatible and worthy upgrade for a 590?
Everything is interchangeable between them. The flywheel key on the 590 can be filed down or buy one already modified 2 advance the ignition timing instead of buying a 620 coil
What did you pound the new nozzle in with - so you didn't damage it? Is it hard to do? I have the little spring loaded punch to get the old one out. Or, does the new one with a smaller hole, or no hole? go in pretty easy.
I missed that in the video I used a brass punch to drive mine in to not damage the brass, not sure if he did it another way the camera blurred on that close up shot
Found another video that guy used the center punch to drive the new nozzle in ua-cam.com/video/hZbuPtdCLLs/v-deo.html
@@garyc9383 Thanks! That is what I'll try too.
They pop right in with a little finesse. Easy.
@@scottcrowley2061 Thanks!
620 sama zenoah 621 sepertinya mirip
hello, i was wondering if u knew where i can get a nozzle to swap out? thanx
I’ve got one of these I picked up super cheap that I’m actually putting the bolt on’s just like you did but with the 590 cylinder, wondering if I should buy the 620 cylinder or put that money towards porting the 590 one. Anyone done both or have any suggestions one way or another thanks!
Porting the 590 cylinder will net better gains then a stock 620 bolt on.
Man I wish I knew what you where talking about
would you port my 590
Yes, visit the website www.worksaws.com to get on the schedule.
I am not necessarily a wrencher but I can Modify the muffler and change a key and epoxy a hole. With that being said What would you suggest I do to make my 590 optimal without a cylinder change to a 620 or porting?
Good muffler mod. All you have to do is drill a big hole where he drilled those 2 small ones and remove the lower plate on the deflector(no need to buy the aftermarket one). Removing that lower deflector plate only takes like 50 seconds by grinding the 2 spots where it's saudered to the upper. The 6 degree timing key is nice but instead of putting jb weld on the stock carb just get the aftermarket 620 carb that sawsalvage sells. The air inlet is a little bigger. The carb and timing key should only be $60
This video might help tinman out
👍🆙DJ
Could I do only the muffler deflector mod and nothing else?
Yes
Did he say the 590 is better ported then the 620 ported
Can't I just chamfer the case instead of making a undercut.
hi,just a quick opinion please. I have a new 261 and after running it for about 10 tanks with stihl hp ultra oil on 40:1 ratio the top of the piston is completly black...is this normal or anything wrong? spark plug is the right color...saw is running very well but didn`t expect that to happen so fast and also little bit of build up on the exhaust port
U should use a jaso fd oil if u wanna the clean piston. Hp ultra is a jaso fb so is old and not clean.
@@Malossianoplus switched to bel ray h1r seems to run alot better very good lubrication aswell engine looks oily and shiny inside
👍 got 500i power for way cheaper
I think you have a scamer on your website Joe
Sorry about that, I have been trying to get that under control
Omg just buy a 620
Unless you just sent me a Reply that I won something
wow your a joke joe gezzze