It's 2024: Is Jazz Getting Smoother?
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- Опубліковано 31 січ 2024
- In this episode, hosts Adam and Peter embark on a musical journey, exploring the talent of Yussef Dayes. A prominent figure in the industry, Dayes' innovative sound has left a mark on the music scene. Join the hosts as they navigate through the layers of Dayes' artistry, questioning and unraveling the mystery of his genre. Is it smooth jazz, or does Dayes defy categorization altogether? Tune in for a great discussion that dives into the unique and enigmatic musical realm that Yussef Dayes effortlessly commands.
↓ Links from the pod ↓
Yussef Dayes LIVE from Joshua Tree
• The Yussef Dayes Exper...
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Great way to start the day. Jazz advice,Piano, Coffee and funny cigs.
I saw Dayes at the North Sea Jazz 2023. And it wasn't in the elevator or in the breakfastroom.
Not a single second that smooth crossed my mind.
Am I weird for thinking there's more than a hint of 90's acid jazz in all of this?
I think acid has not disappeared - relatively recently, The Consouls (who do clever vgm jazz covers) chose to cover the Punch Out main theme as acid jazz - worked a treat and brought back memories of D.I.G
Also check out a guy called Alfa Mist. Another South London cat.
The other thing about YD, his band, Alfa Mist, Nubaya Garcia, others of these Londoners: they’re all quite YOUNG! So excited to see where they all go for the next few decades!
Alfa mist got it going on! Him/ the collective of musicians behind that name have been putting out straight 🔥 for years now!
I got to see Alpha Mist play live in Los Angeles. An amazing night as you can imagine.
Yeah I saw him in NYC last year. Great band, great show!
It’s not enough to say that Renee Rosnes is underrated. IMHO, her compositional catalogue beats any pianist in the last 25 years with the exception of Mehldau.
Ron Carter gets his pick to a certain extent and he picked her.
She’s also not in a box, her albums are diverse and innovative. I love you guys!
I went and saw these guys live. It was super fun, however the issue you run into with such simple harmonic structures coupled with relatively laid back soloing is each song ends up sounding pretty similar to the next. The rhythmic dialogue that happens between the players is really the main event, but it can get a bit one dimensional when it's a whole show/album of a pretty narrow idiom.
I met Peter and Terreon Gully over 10 years ago when he came to play in Istanbul, Nardis jazz club. Have a great 2024 Peter, Adam and openstudio.
I mentioned Terreon’s name before watching the video and there it is mentioned.. universe and music works powerful in many ways :))
Just wanted to say, Yussef Kamaal "Black Focus" and Yussef Days Trio live album "Welcome To The Hills" literally got me into Jazz. I had NEVER really listened to jazz at all in my life. I come from the world of hardcore, punk, and metal too. I do have to admit, ever since Elijah Fox joined on sax it does sound a lil same-y. I really enjoyed the trio with Charlie Stacey on keys.
Ps. Also, please check out Katalyst from Inglewood, CA. They are incredible too.
I think you nailed it, this is new to a new generation of jazz listeners.
I don't know that the two-chord vamp is anything new. But I think there may be unnecessary scorn cast upon groups like these. There's a very big difference between something like this and Boney James or Kenny G. Peter's right as well: this doesn't engage the brain to the same degree as Miles Davis or Duke Ellington. I get the sense that Peter's like "I don't quite like this, but I'm not really sure why...." And compare this to something like the Pat Metheny Group's _Still_ _Life_ _Talking_ , which might be considered "smooth jazz," but it's incredibly dense. I'm not sure that it matters if you call this "jazz" or not: if it evokes emotion, then it's art. It's instrumental music, it's improvised, people obviously want to listen to it. Jazz has broad shoulders. Not everything has to be on the level of Lyle Mays or John Coltrane.
Yussef Dayes style is gonna open the way for musicians to get new gig opportunities, as a new way to have live music in the background of trendy urban clubs and restaurants.
It's not THAT new... kinda retro. In the mid-late 90s, into the 2000s, there was a confluence of smooth jazz and electronic/synth music, in "sophisticated" urban dinner/drinks clubs... but you'd have to be near that type of city. I haven't been near one since then... but did those opportunities dry up, even before quarantine? I think you're right that people will be ready again, for that. Live music, such as this, has a different vibe from a DJ set... and that's chill background music. Hopefully club owners will havd to compete with each other in order to host those feels.
Bigger groups like STS9 were playing festivals and bigger venues, just like now, but I remember seeing plenty of local bands.
too much Stevie and you go too smooth.
Background music gigs: a good thing or a bad thing?
Honestly we should be talking about Kamaal Williams and his min9 magic
Wish they observed a video with Charlie Stacey on it, but I'm sure the commentary would change little
My sense is that there is a shift to "chill" sonically lately and not just in the London scene. I hear it in the music of Brandee Younger, Immanuel Wilkins and Joel Ross too. There is a quieter, maybe less strongly melodic contemporary aesthetic out there that is.. "now".
Happy birthday Adam! Both you and Peter have inspired me to focus on the fundamentals again and my playing has never been better. I’ve listened to hours of your insight and wisdom, thank you for all that you do and have a wonderful day!
I think one of the most important parts of the style is the lack of an arranged melody. It’s like music is at its core based around a groove of the drummer. The bassist adds harmonic context for the sax and keys. Instead of playing around a melody they improvise melodic ideas around a progression which gives it the simplicity that Peter seems to mock. the music has an appeal because of that simplicity. The rhythm and harmonies are grounded but the melody is just amorphous.
When the melody is amorphous, what makes the music recognizable? Not that this is "bad" in any sense, but is it intended to be memorable or unique?
why do you believe he's mocking it? just curious
@@tannergodwin8498 the vibe he was giving off to me was “thats so simple, I could do that…” And he can, he’s very competent talented musician. But when I watched the video through it just didn’t seem they were able to fully appreciate and listen to the music without picking at what it is or isn’t. Also playing valid licks on the piano over their improv like it’s a challenge?
@@jorymil Improv, rhythm, orchestration, and musicians are unique.
You can tell there just hating on the music because it seems a lot of people are taking to the music.@@dangfd551
Awesome podcast, fellas. Keep these coming
Adam is our resident philosopher of jazz--I mean that as the compliment! Hey AS and PM, look at the comments. A lot of peeps are already talking about the blending of jazz and hip hop. Sounds like my Speak-a Da Pipe-a is still in order. Digging The Greats is already down to talk. I am sure PDBass would love to guest star as well. Make it happen, captains! Space Man, over and ooooooooooooooottttttt....
Right. Guru's Jazzmatazz Vol.1 was put out in the early 90s as far as I remember. There have been multiple attempts to do it. Robert Glasper is really great at this. And it's most definitely a right thing to do in order to keep jazz relevant.
Reminds me of Bobby Hutcherson's "Linger Lane" album. It was recorded January 16, 1975 outside on a deck in Idyllwild, California. You can sense Bobby, Chuck Rainey, Harvey Mason and Ernie Watts all soaking in the view of the Southern California mountains.
Oh, look! The Smurfs got new hats.
First time here, and I thought that was a river outside… it got trippy fast with the car driving over it.
"Pappa needs a new string vest!"
P.S. Joshua Trees look like they'd fit right in in Madagascar... amazing landscape...
The one thing about smooth jazz is, there is language in there. And it's language that you would use for so many genres of music. It's not bebop language but it's that major pentatonic, language that's used for almost anything. It's worth studying and mastering to be well rounded. Thanks for the video!
Totally agree. The best smooth jazz - in the more traditional definition - is just instrumental R&B at its core. All types of Stevie wonder and Earth Wind and Fire influences can be found in artists like Grover Washington, David Sanborn, Jeff lorber, norman brown, etc. Not to mention harmony stuff!
"Swiggly, curvy, hairy... Sound !?" LMAO thank you Adam.
Love these hats
Edit: I just went and listed to _The_ _Malibu_ _Concert_ twice. I think I dig it a little better. Think Herbie, both with Headhunters, then his later Future2Future band, then mix that in with Robert Glasper (also called the Experience...) and Roy's RH Factor band, and imagine them all growing up in London listening to bhangra and drum-and-bass. Pino Palladino's son is on bass.
It's not a "generational" thing, not really (except for Pino's son :-D ). Or if it is, it's not "generational" in ways that haven't happened before. Remember when The Bad Plus came onto the scene? People were saying very similar things. Pat Metheny Group, too. Pieces of a Dream--those guys could play. The Crusaders. People said similar things about Miles's fusion music. And if the relative youth of the musicians means anything, people have always been drawn to young musicians, so that's not really new in a way that's never happened before. Millions of people viewing musicians improvising at a high level on actual instruments isn't a bad thing, even if I don't quite get into the music the same way I get into Roy Hargrove or Jimmy Smith. I don't come from London; I didn't grow up on drum-and-bass. I could see getting into it if I were _playing_ it, though. It's deep stuff, done with love and intent. And it makes you think, as evidenced by my longest-ever YT posts here. Plenty of room for everyone :-)
Yussef dayes and kamaal Williams are two of my favorite contemporary jazz musicians. Kamaal is a keyboardist, so check him out next!
2 chord vamp strips away all the pomposity and stays with the true groove
Smooth jazz for me is watered down/jazz lite. Lacking the adventure and spontaneity that makes jazz interesting. There are artist's that are sometimes categorized as smooth which i do like because they maintain spontaneity, great compositions, harmonic interest. This would include the yellowjackets, jeff lorber and bob james.
Great episode! Check more of european jazz !
It would be great to have a dive into the monster drummer composer Dave king. The bad plus. Happy apple. Dave King Trucking Company. His trio work with Julian Lage. Collaborations with Josh Redman. So much going on, and definitely not smooth!
In this Yussef Dayes cut, as Adam says the keys and bass will be direct. The drums are miked quite close apart from a couple of overheads and the sax has a mic clipped on the bell.
That 6x10 is a pretty big bass rig for the volume he was playing, but aesthetically it looks proportional in that great big landscape.
Being outdoors there's not much close to the instruments apart from the 'floor' to provide reflections, which then would be very early, so pretty dry tracks. Some reverb would have to be added.
As long as the air was still, I vote for it being recorded mostly or entirely all together.
That intro got me feelin a certain way 🕺😆
In terms of recommendations, I'd love to hear you talk about Rossano Sportiello (I'm assuming y'all are already hip to him, but I just don't recall hearing anything on the pod). Cheers!
sweaters and beanies ftw! ( old guy style, 😘)
"I need one of those hats"
This is like 2024 Beavis & Butthead Jazzy Mode with some video analysis lmao.
Alfa Mist, Kamaal Williams and Mansur Brown are key in this "South London Sound" for sure.
imo there’s a reason it’s named after the drummer. it’s jazz drummer music as he said most of the interaction and comping is rhythmic and driven by dayes
Hello Peter and Adam! Check out young up-and-comer (13 years old) from Ottawa - James Greer! Find his playing of Think of One from about a month ago!
i got into “normal” jazz through the south london sound
Well I watch your 'You'll hear it' sessions without fail, but you lost me on this one. I cannot work out if you Liked Youseff Days music or or Not. I really like it and often listen to his music for background music to work to, but also impressed by the improvisational work he does. I think if anything maybe your are testing it too much against other Jazz greats. If Grover Washington used a Wind (Tree) chime it doesn't mean it cannot be used in a similar way in todays music. And in fact nearly all music is a derivative of something previous.
I'm not knocking the show, just couldn't fix where you were at. Hope you did like it but if not, that you both appreciated it for what it is.
Keep up the great work :)
Debosier is very much a real law firm in New Orleans
Also one reason that we hear two chord vamps is that it is very popular in hiphop beats. And for some reason 2-chord loops works so well there, and hiphop has had a lot of influence lately with cats like Robert Glasper etc
What’s the tune they play at the start
Essas toucas tão horríveis, mas muito obrigado pelo excelente conteúdo, me inspiro muito em vocês, principalmente no Peter. Obrigado!
its live. they are in joshua tree. big spacious empty and quiet!
So glad you guys covered Yussef Dayes who has been a major inspiration for me recently.
I think it is important to understand the cultural evolution in music that has happened in the last few decades, to understand how his music connects with people and why it has a much wider appeal than most of what young jazz / jazz-influenced musicians are putting out.
Most people born in the 80s and 90s were exposed to the RnB Hip-hop dominance of the early 2000's which took much from the styles of the 70s and beyond, largely through sampling. But there's also the evolving landscape of rap music where artists have cross-pollinated with a number of genres for decades now. Groove and rhythm for the average listener has evolved and I think we see that best with the growth of Trap style beats, or afro-beat, appearing everywhere from film to advertisements. Modern rap has a lot more rhythmic/stylistic variation. There are also underground phenoms like MF DOOM, producers like Nujabes and others who many of us got acquainted with through media / anime, youtube etc. Consider the popularity of "lofi beats to study to".
So for the modern young listener who has grown up exposed to such a wide variety of music styles groove, feel, and aesthetics, with an icing on the top of musical virtuosity come together to create a "vibe" most enjoy, and many abolutely love.
And for myself as a musician, despite listening to mostly hard-bop and contemporary jazz, I feel drawn to creating music like this because of my adolescent music experiences, and my desire to connect with an audience that isnt comprised of 80%+ musicians.
Side note: I am curious if you have heard much of artists like Rob Araujo, Anatole Muster, Daniel Hayn, Slowya.Roll. I suppose they are sort of in the vein of DOMI & JD Beck, but a bit different.
Check out the song "Side Street" by Daniel Hayn. I believe it feels like the growth of a new genre. It can be called fusion but it's something new I feel.
Thanks for your content, and to anyone who read this.
electronica/fusion
Since when most people prefer challenging an unpredictable music ?
Hahahaha I remember the first time I listened to the album Dark Side of the Moon by Pink Floyd while high for the first time. I had heard the album in its entirety so many times already but it was like I finally understood it for the first time.
Adam Maness: how’d you know I like Monk
Me looking at his outfit: Just a guess
Accurate
It must be very cold in the studio 😊
Did you forget to pay your heating bill? Why the stocking caps?
That's a big old window right there... a wall of a window, and it looks cold today. And Peter just returned from a cruise ship. And Adam's clearly blending at least 3 styles of nautical professor... oh shit, this tune's fire for smooth jazz, gotta go
I think Peter is trying to be nice, but I don't really dig this either. No hate just preference. Sucks that I feel the need to qualify my opinion but...And Adam, no shade but he said Kenny Barron, not Kenny Wheeler. Love to both you and them. I really like this channel.
Is it cold in the studio or did you guys just not wash your hair?
Loved this video! I am so curious about how you would react to Nubiyan twist, whom are also part of the London scene but where way more stuff is happening harmonically and melodically. Or to Lydian Collective, also from London but they're a bit of an outlier: the guys in the band (specifically the guys) come from game music. Or interesting musicians that live on the mainland: Israel Varela (also a drummer) or Baiju Bhatt. Also, GALA ×184920 yesyes
Recording outside sounds great assuming there’s not much wind. Rooms cause “cavernous messes” not the good ol outdoors.
It reminds me of that album the Beastie Boys put out that was pretty much all groove tracks.
Check out SuperBass 2 with McBride Clayton and Ray Brown
You guys should check out Alfa Mist if you haven't already. He blends a lot of elements of modern jazz with hip hop.
Great podcast! It sounds like they recorded live and did overdubs in the studio. It was a few drum and percussion hits that didn't sound like they were live.
Peter at 25:44 is killing me 🤣
what tune did you guys play in the intro ?
I think it's Raisins Under The Sun by Yussef Dayes.
Raisins in the Sun
If you wanna see a live outdoor performance with amazing sound check out Kenny Loggins - What a fool believes on his Outside : from the redwoods album .
Have you discovered pianist Ian Finkelstein in the Kassa Overall band? Check out their recent KEXP performance.
More synth... there's space in the mud room on the left hand side, so we can play along. TY, generous fearlessness!
I think you're right about the power of visuals, video, viduals, if artists seek algorithmic appeasement. Once the algorithm is sentient, whoever learns how to bribe Algo is going to make bank!
Whether listeners actually need video... it depends on context - are they doing/viewing something else while listening? Then no worries - that's what you hope listeners are doing... Or, are most listeners killing time, IOW doom scrolling?... and then your music enters their feed. If most of your phone gladiators swipe towards that end of the spectrum of possible listeners, then there needs to be something visually compelling to accompany your music. And for many of those potential listeners, if the music is jazz, then it had better also have a pop singer, too, and gimmicks and hyperbole, and speaking of all that... I feel bad for asking this, so don't shoot the messenger, but...
Could you edit out all of the rests from your music? Pretty much, anywhere the singer isn't singing? It's for the algorithm*.
*SIA if this becomes "enrichment" for the copyright bots. I know they're already just barely holding it together.
I think the 2-chord vamp perfectly delivers a sense of "one placeness"
I am missing something, perhaps a great direct earthed voice, a female singer, I would love to hear Anna Tagliablue.
Nice, though it sounds like a great backing track. Someone should write song lyric or a rap over it.
Big fan of this band and also the 60s/70s jazz influences they're coming from like Lonnie Liston Smith/Pharoah et al... sure derivative... but then it is great music and really pallatable for new audiences who would normally not like jazz.... also they're incorporating a lot of modern things from DJ culture... standing on the shoulders of giants as they say...
Not sure where that term "smooth jazz" comes from but that wouldn't come to mind when listening to YD or Alfa Mist... Jazz-Funk, Fusion... Always been about setting a mood and getting psyched out with improvisation. Also probably not the best choice of media to illustrate the purpose, I wouldn't say this performance is their most inspired... Still listening on repeat though.
I don't think he even calls his music "Jazz". Hence why he named his album Black classical music...
Right? Jazz is literally a slur
Made by YT''s to jizz off too. Miles and Nina rebuked using the word Jazz @@kajlundolsen
This video in particular doesn't make justice to how busy he can get, or how tasteful some of the arrangements in his new album are. I understand you guys are from a different background, but I guess those type of musicians certainly are great for maintaining young people interested in playing instruments
White Guys again having the answers and critiques to 'Jazz music' as per usual. Unable to just enjoy a piece of music for once.
It's funny, even when they attempt to play Yussef's music, it just sounds wack..
I think if anyone deserves some success it's Yussef right now. From Black Focus to love is the message the list goes on.
But with success haters must indeed follow.
I think alot of the music yussef, rocco and elijah puts out is heavely influenced by hip hop and neo soul
Alfa Mist (Pianist)
Hmm he sometimes comes up on my Spotify weekly ... I am not 100 % into these fellas ...
Yeah but smooth jazz can be super cheesy .
prolly they are taking out stems of instruments, using some ai magic for noise removal and mixing it back together in style!
These new UK artists make Jazz cool again… Jazz should not be a upper class dinner music.
This is the first time I hear of these guys. My first impression is that they lack in complexity and skill. The piano playing isn´t particularly good. With that said. I´m happy when I see young people try to create jazz instead of the very popular pop and hip hop. Also, even if you lack skill, you can create fantastic art. They have an interesting concept and sound going on. It´s not up my alleyway, but I do appreciate the effort. To get me to listen to it, they have to up their skill level.
All music is "weed music" if you've just puffed. THC opens up signal pathways in the brain that were not available before, due to the neurons working in both directions. Nominal state is for them to only work in one direction. The beneficial effects are fleeting though if you go too big on the smoke or vape because keeping complex structures in RAM becomes more challenging the higher ones gets. I'm talking about doses much lower than what would affect motor function or give someone the ubiquitous, quintessential, oft overused case of the munchies. Any musician owes it to themselves to do a little experimentation with lower dose of cannabis if they are unaware of its potential. Its 100% performance enhancing in the correct dose, as it pertains to the more immediate, "being in the moment", type ways. I would put feel, rhythmic freedom, creativity, maybe phrasing on the list. These benefits need to be balanced with the negatives however, e.g. concepts that require any king of multi step or complex thinking and perhaps internal time keeping. Long ass winded way of saying I think you guys are probably right, weed music.
Old is New Again! Come on man. It’s smooth jazz for the kids that can’t concentrate or practice long enough to play music with changes and syncopation. The sound of the video is awful because the compression and limiters are cranked in the mix. Why isn’t anyone talking about that sax tone? JEEEEESUS HELP ME. No swing. No jazz vocabulary. No connection to the history of the music (don’t even start talking about Herbie in the same conversation as this music, HERBIE HAS FUNK ALL OVER HIM). All video, no substance.
Don't even think his Joshua Tree set was made for the 'Jazz Critics'. He has other records for that there.
Love Is The Message for the example is probably one of the greatest piece's of live music recorded this decade.
You sound a little bitter but I suppose this channel is for that right..
This music makes me yawn….please challenge me, entice me, something….
I think what you guys are trying to say, in a very politically, correct, polite way interesti Music…. It’s Completely formulaic and derivative. I don’t think this is
React to Corto.alto you cowards!!!