Suboxone vs Kratom: It doesn’t matter. Let me explain…
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- This seems to be a hot topic and people’s opinions are always formed from their experience.
That doesn’t mean they’re wrong. But a little nuance goes a long way.
www.doctorchri...
Dr P!
Just popping in to let you know I have been off Suboxone for A YEAR this week.
I’m pregnant with my second child, a boy, due in August.
I graduated with my BSN and take my NCLEX next week.
I’m happier and healthier than I’ve been in a long time. I really appreciate finding your channel, it was so helpful in being able to finally get off suboxone after 6 years. Hope you are well. Cheers.
That’s awesome to hear! Congratulations!!!! Thank you for the update. God bless your growing family 🤘🏼
How do I get in touch with you Chris???
its about DAYUM time we get men like him telling us what we need to hear. You're the man!!!!!
this is the most sensical way to describe the benefits of mat s i’ve ever heard
Great to hear you Dr P.
I’m down to 3/16 of a sub now. Yeah i have to make a lot of cuts on the strip to get them into 1/16 each piece. Ten years on subs after ruining my 20s into my 30s with oxys.
You’re not in wd on 1/16th of a strip? Sleep through the night? And how much is 1/16th under a mg my accuracy of cutting the strips is terrible. Said I was never going back to a suboxone doctor but I feel the 2 mg strips will really help with my taper better then the 8mg. Good lucks sounds like you’re close!
@@Kerri303 I’ve been lowering for a while. I take 3 of those pieces a day. Slowly Over time i just cut them smaller and smaller. Yeah it’s hard to cut and those two mg ones would be great. I should tell my doctor I’m taking less but my insurance doesn’t cover my pee test so i would have a hard time justifying paying 200 a month for only 2mg strips a day.
@@Kerri303 how much are you taking now?
@@Kerri303 i fold it in half and cut. Then fold those and cut. Once you have those 4 pieces fairly close then i eyeball it. I have actually used the smaller ones to help taper because obviously they aren’t exact!
@@Justinsox39 Been tapering for well over 6 months now . I have steadied myself on 1 mg whenever I go under a milligram that’s when it gets really hard the insomnia, the withdrawal kicks in and it’s just hard to get through work being a mom taking care of kids so I give in and take that extra little piece. Just a never ending cycle. Been on it I hate to say it for over 10 years so I know the taper takes longer and it’s harder but this is no joke under a mg. Honestly getting to a milligram wasn’t that hard the hard part starts under a milligram.
Ill show this video for group tomorrow. 💯🔥🙏😎
Doc, can you speak on weird shit in community? People are coming into CSU freaked. Don't know what to say cuz I am also . Thanks
What kind of stuff?
Had my last 80mg sublocade shot 3 months ago after a 4-5 year program on strips. 1 year on the shot. Using kratom to curb the minor discomfort. Works wonderful, manage your dosage and use ALL veins not just reds which are most addictive.
All veins? Is it called All Veins? I've used green...
OOOOO fantastic comment hey, so how would this work with managing sublocade WDs if one even gets them and taking kratom?
Because one of the other things I realized and cannot find any info on is what Sublocade does to your sex drive? Do you even still get boners on it? Like it's fine for Suboxone if I thought I could taper but committing an entire year to not being available for a gf is asking soemthing of me. I mean one wouldn't have to prior to marriage, it's just the mentality of can't not that it's an option and I heard people say it kills the sex drive. Just realized I never asked that. But anyway if you are only a few months out from your last shot wouldn't kratom do nothing?
My biggest fear on taking kratom is it would make me very sick doing it with bupe in my system and that I'd then be stuck for many hours or possible a whole day wretching with literally nothing I can do to stop it. I also don't even know if it's physically dangerous or you can seize or something combining the two because of bupe's notorious reactions with opioids (though I guess this only people who are addicted to other things getting precipitated wds). I'm hearing weird mixed things about this all over the internet, I saw one girl legit claim she took 2mg buprenorphine, skipped a day and took kratom, took buprenorphine the next day, then rotated back to kratom. Can you even do that? You'd still have 2-3mg of buprenorphine in your system shouldn't the kratom do nothing or make you sick?
I'm worried that if things go wrong with Sublocade I am stuck for liteally months on end of that bullshit. Which is exactly why I wanted to NOT taper, that and I can't trust myself with strips. I have too much redose compulsion and my dose only went up not down, it was massively easier to control myself with kratom than it is with suboxone. And suboxone doesn't even get me high really. How "minor" is the discomfort? If you went from a longterm kratom addiction to a month of subs, how bad is it gonna be if you try an just one and done it with a 100mg shot or a 300mg shot? Like just take one damn shot, poof that's it walk away. What are we talking about and for how long?
@@drek9k2 Very complex question. First Kratom does not react like normal opiates do when you take subs. Although it reacts with opiate receptors the mechanism is different, to my knowledge.
I didn’t start taking kratom until I felt the antsy feeling, and then started very low and slow and only in afternoons at night to help sleep. The thing with kratom is that it’s somewhat self regulating. You can’t just take more to ‘get high’. You just get sick from it. This is of course my experience with it.
Sublocade was great for me. No extra side effects compared to strips other than the pain (it hurts like hell day of shot) that takes a couple days to go away. I did a taper down on my last 4 shots going a week or two longer between and having them only put 50mg in the last time.
You could definitely do a one shot and done with it. It lasts a very long time in your system. Therefore it makes the wd much easier over a longer duration. One tip I would give is not to use kratom for the ‘high’ but just as a leveler. Use it sparingly.
@@drek9k2stay the fuck away from that shot
And subs
Why?@@johnbutler2780
Can I start taking kratom again after only 4 days on suboxone???
Yeah. Good video . Get stable. Thats cool youre open , straight up. Love the book. Thanks 🙏
I've got a 60gpd kratom habit,for three years started at about 15gpd,went up the longer I went.is suboxone a gd option for kratom withdrawal.
But are you still on subs?? gotta pay the piper eventually
In my experience the only time ive had physical withdrawals from kratom i was having to take almost 2 ounces a day or more so you got to abuse tf out of it in order to even be able to hold that much down without vomiting
Yeah that's a pretty big habit, although I only now just realized looking at my press I mustve been doing far more than I believed, I simply guessed each blate pape pouch was maybe around 2-3g of powder, or maybe I ended up using more capsules when I pressed them I have no idea. I was probably on anywhere from a 20g-50g a day habit so yeah, not far from that at the worst. You know the problem is, like ANY addict when you simply stop paying attention to your dosing. I did the same stupid as shit with drinking alcohol, coffee, smoking, pill popping, you just lose track of how many you took because you keep absentmindedly taking another while watching TV or playing games or something. I ended up sick a few times doing this, not realizing I'd blown through 25g it was still early in the day.
Jeeez 2 ounces? That's the most kratom I've heard anyone take daily. Ive heard of taking 5 to 10 grams per serving or dose.....I guess it wouldnt be hard if you're dosing that much several times a day
@@stephenstuckey It's 56 grams and oddly is not the most I've seen, I still don't think it's even possible to hit the amount I've seen some people report hitting 100g daily that's fucking neary 4ozs but idk how they calculated it. Most people stabilized around 10-50g.
I’ve been taking 50-70grams a day for like 5 years. Currently attempting to get off cause it’s fucking my liver and kidneys up.
@@drek9k2 crazy man jeeez. I tried it once when i was in fentynal withdrawal(IV) it didnt do a damn thing for me. But I wasnt really doing it right and had a hard time getting it down since I was in full blown withdrawal. Looking to try it again though to help get off subs or help with the wd from subs.
I was diagnosed with substance abuse disorder because I'm most certainly an alcoholic. I tried kratom because I wanted to feel less anxiety. I ended up pairing it with DXM because I'm an addict. I don't recommend it to anyone that suffers from addiction.
That's dangerous as fuck bro kratom has some SSRI activity, you could've given yourself serotonin syndrome
It’s been 2 years in the Kratom 2 tablespoons 4 or 5 or 6 times a day.
Kratom kills my appetite so I dnt eat and haven’t lifted weights in a year and I am SO weak now, my hair is thinner, I have to use enemas whenever I go #2, and my anxiety is through the roof. I just want to get out this mess. I asked a few doctors can they help me and they didn’t even know what Kratom is therefore couldn’t help. My plan is to get some Norco or oxy and take the minimal amount of that the first 2 days to get me through without Kratom. I withdraw from Kratom 3 years ago but it wasn’t bad, 4 days of tiredness but I was only taking Kratom a week that time. I tried 4 times to quit recently and could only ever get through one day and by 11pm I would take Kratom . The struggle is real. I NEED HELP . I can’t do this by myself!!!!!!
How are you doing man? I’m on day four of no Suboxone and my whole body is just on fire but I can’t go back to it. my prescription ran out so I tapered but it doesn’t seem like it really helped the withdrawals are death
You can do it!!!! Don’t give in and don’t give up. The outcome is worth it
Hey doc. I want to start a taper but i still need something for pain any suggestions
works 100 if you double up dosage first week
Ive been taking suboxone since November of last year but before that been taking Kratom extracts for 2 plus year 2 a day how do i get back on kratom and stop suboxone how long will that take
Well the fastest and easy way would be Gabapentin for 1-2 weeks . after week you should no longer be blocked from sub to take kratom . or you could take years to taper off sub and wind up on forever
@@Cuz504 Fuck maybe I should explore that option too, I just didn't want a gabapentin addiction to develop but two weeks sounds easy. A lot easier to take gabapentin 14 days and drop that then freal out two weeks straight with wds from bupe. Hell if one could just avoid taking kratom until the last week or two would be fantastic, it shouldn't give you enough time to develop any addiction or even tolerance to either in that window. Just drop both hard after the first three weeks.
Don’t take alot
Just started Kratom, if I did need to get off it(withdrawals), I would just power through it with weed. Got off antidepressants with weed
Yeah man taking subs or any other harder drugs to get off plant is straight retarted
Good luck with that. Kratom is mixed pharmacology.“In vivo studies demonstrated that kratom alkaloids exert central analgesic, anti-anxiety, anti-drug addiction, and antipsychotic effects primarily through activation of central opioidergic, adrenergic, serotoninergic, and dopaminergic neurotransmission systems (Matsumoto et al., 1996a; Matsumoto et al., 1996b; …" So it's kind of like getting off of an opioid, an SSRI, a stimulant, and nicotine all at the same time. I also feel some GABA stuff going on.
This! Kratom is a psychological nightmare. Even H addicts say it's worse@@theblowupdollsmusic
@@theblowupdollsmusic Never noticed GABA stuff, and it's not like nicotine. It feels stimulanty tho for sure, but the SSRI bullshit is what really pushed me to get off it.
Kratom can lead to addiction which is something subs cant do but in my opinion one is so much more socially accepting i had a hard time findinf work addmiting i was on subs compared to kratom
That’s a good point
That is absolutely something it can and does do it took me weeks to get heavily addicted to subs and it wasn't long before I gave in to the urge to take more. I haven't engaged in seeking behaviour in many long years until I was on Suboxone. I haven't even felt like an addict like this in quite awhile and I recognize the patterns.
I have no idea why you'd say something as grossly irresponsible as this that is on par with calling OxyContin non-addictive if you only take it for pain, ofcourse it's fucking addictive it's an opioid in point of fact I already can tell this is one of the most addictive substances I've ever been on and I'm comparing that with oxy and speed and cocaine among many other things. Getting off it is like getting off fucking Klonopin. And yes you absolutely do end up craving Suboxone constantly and start gears spnning in back of your mind where to find more on the street if you suddenly get cut off from your doctor or you want to take more. I want off this crap ASAP. I wasn't planning on a cigarette level addiction this summer. My advice to people would be if you can use kratom to taper off anything do that instead, Suboxone is like willfully putting yourself on a multiyear if not decade long addiction. You tell yourself oh it won't be like that, like trying heroin. Thats what this stuff is. It's only acceptable for people already hard addicted to dangerous opioids imo.
My wife and I are very addictive to subs and having a hard time stopping
Bup. is just as addictive as any of the other opiates and the withdrawals are more mild but last for months.
@@wagoholics Consider Sublocade or Kratom. Neither is foolproof. Both will take much time. Sublocade is nice if only for trying to manually break the habit of taking things, not taking something at all is a primary addiction pattern you need to break and taking Kratom won't do this plus the taper requires iron discipline for kratom and then you might be addicted to kratom.
Kratom for 4 years daily.... it did its job... only wd cold turkey..3 days of fatigue depression.... its veryyyyyyy mild and do able
I tapered off 24mg subutex after being on for 10 years by using kratom but now i can’t stop Kratom , been on it almost a year and I messed up by trying and getting hooked on the mit 45 super k (purple bottle liquid extract) the amount of powder needed to equal those extracts is insane. I’m trying to taper down but it’s hard as I’m the only person that takes care of anything in my family, and I don’t have the option to sit around feeling horrible but I also don’t want to be dependent on kratom or extracts. I’m spending almost as much on kratom as I did being self pay subutex patient
yup. Extracts are more dangerous than the other options. i am using suboxone to get off of kratom now.
That was me, took kratom to get off subs then subs to get off kratom stuck on subs..vocious fckn cycle. But i am done paying my dr 175.00 a month. So i am gonna try kratom again 😂@jlav9594
In my experience it doesn't make a huge difference, some of the strains and vendors are way more potent than the others but your mistake was in buying retail. I bought wholesale powders. They came out with these things called blate papes that became pretty popular, it's a pouch you can put a scoop of kratom into with a spoon lick the top flap and seal it like an envelope then drop that. WARNING be sure to make it a reasonable size! They also dissolve quickly so you know, don't choke. I just imagine it to be a piece of pizza crust to make swallowing easier. The alternative was buying your own pill press but I'd get like 0.7g in each capsule actually now that I think about it I was maybe taking more than I thought. I'd try to get as close to 1g per cap as possible and overpack them. So one press could get me anywhere from 15g to 21g shit I must've been doing close to 50g a day at points. I was just estimating how many grams was going in those blates.
Anyway when you are swallowing 20-50g of kratom a day it's as good as any extract, the things I liked was Vivazen but those was a special treat, it was just too expensive for me to take frequently. I rarely bought retail, only when I misjudged something and would run out before my next wholesale shipment came in. Those bags was like $40 for 8oz it was often a tad stronger than my wholesale for some reason but it was still considerable more expensive than I was paying for wholesale powder. If you are a kratom addict you shouldn't be spending the money on retail especially not as a married man. That's how people wind up saying it is so expensive. For me I was down at like $1200 a year and less than that for kratom as a somewhat heavy addict for years. It's feasible on lower income. Buying Suboxone at retail without insurance on higher doses I would've burned that money in like three months.
Make a slow taper plan and stick to it.
It’s been 2 years in the Kratom 2 tablespoons 4 or 5 or 6 times a day.
Kratom kills my appetite so I dnt eat and haven’t lifted weights in a year and I am SO weak now, my hair is thinner, I have to use enemas whenever I go #2, and my anxiety is through the roof. I just want to get out this mess. I asked a few doctors can they help me and they didn’t even know what Kratom is therefore couldn’t help. My plan is to get some Norco or oxy and take the minimal amount of that the first 2 days to get me through without Kratom. I withdraw from Kratom 3 years ago but it wasn’t bad, 4 days of tiredness but I was only taking Kratom a week that time. I tried 4 times to quit recently and could only ever get through one day and by 11pm I would take Kratom . The struggle is real. I NEED HELP . I can’t do this by myself!!!!!!
Go a full day no kratom.. suffer..... take a good spooonfulll....... eat drink sleep be about diet use kratom as a pre workout
I buy a kilo of green mang da only bag up 12 grams for work.... I never use more it works every time and I'm not super hooked... use it sparingly and focus on hydrating bro
Do not get on pillllllls your crazy
I found kratom in 2021 have never been better I used all drugs
@@JosephFarrier-c8qI know it sounds radical . But this anxiety and feeling of hopelessness and doom like if I lost a loved one type of pain is too much. I don’t even want to get high anymore, I just want to be normal