Building a bowling arsenal by the numbers
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- Опубліковано 21 бер 2019
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I havent found your videos for other companies. Am I just missing it or have you decided not to do the other companies for some reason?
This has simplified the complexity of bowling balls GREATLY. Thank you!
Thank you JR Raymond for making this video and all the videos you make. Info like this is very helpful.
Great videos man. Liking what you are doing. Really find them helpful.
This is a very good video. I purchased a Hammer Flawless and the Triton Elite. Now I am waiting on my pro shop to drill both of these balls. Thanks for sharing this information.
I've been a storm guy my whole life with a 6 ball arsenal and cant wait to see the storm video... very good video..
Very informative, as usual. Thank you.
Love this information. It is overwhelming looking at balls. This really gives me direction on what to expand into. Can’t wait for the storm segment. That is what I have now
Another great video. Keep them coming
Very informative great starting point Thank you!
I’ve used this system when I was bowling tournaments and it is the best arsenal builder ever. I felt I should come back and give credit
Wow! Awesome video! Thanks again
This was super helpful. Thank you
Really interesting ideas with the numbers. Looking forward to seeing the other companies as well
Nice to know, good info. And I think this will help alot of people.
Your videos are great. I'm not hardcore enough to need to know any of this, but I still find this type of information fascinating.
I find this formula to be more accurate:
RG - Total diff(diff+int diff) = core total.
Then calculate cover strength:
-10 Rough sanded (500 to 1500)
-5 Light sanded (2000 to 4000)
+5 Polished (5000 +)
Surface friction is more significant to reaction than cover composition.
Would love some feedback from others using this formula.
By adding in the intermediate differential, you make the 'hook potential' stronger for pretty much every asymmetrical ball than every symmetrical. I gotta believe that some strong dull solid symmetricals hook more than some polished pearl asymmetricals. The cover strength is a nice 'fine tune', but for the purposes of the original discussion, I think the premise is hook potential of ball based on the RG and differential.
Great job on the video and explanation. Can't wait for your Radical video.
Wicked nice work!
I’ve got some tournaments coming up and have more than 8 balls, so I’ll look into utilizing this for putting 7 + spare ball into the bag.
Good insight. Exactly what I’m looking for to build my arsenals. I’m gonna have to fit new balls among the old ones.
I forgot : reactive polished cover stock and urethane.. How are they gonna fit in the table?
Would love to hear the drilling lay out tips for those balls. Thank you.
Very good video makes laying out an arsenal much easier
Nice video... waiting for the storm version!
Hi JR, Great informative video. I am a bronze level bowling coach and have been looking for an easier way to evaluate the ball specs. I would like to request a way to pick a 2 or 3 ball arsenal for house bowlers. Thanks again.
best bowling videos ive found .
I have watched this video several times. To see where I can add to my “arsenal”.
Should the bowling balls be drilled the same or slightly different? I.E. different flair, reading lanes earlier or later, break point when it hits dry boards. Thanks you for the videos.
I like this method. New way of looking at it. One question I have. How would you determine surface to it and your surface preference. For example, I have a Motiv Venom Strike that even though it's a solid, I keep it at 5500 grit and i also own a Venom Shock Pearl that I like at 3000 dull. Would those surfaces change much or would you treat it as a surface? Thanks
YEsssss, thank you!!
Nice video JR! What rating would you give a cover stock to a urethane ball? And the difference because the cover of the pearl urethane (purple hammer) and the solid (black hammer or black widow urethane)?
I luv this and built a spread sheet to even track surface changes I have done to different balls ... just to have all the info in one spot ... but how did you come up with the cover adjustment (+3 _6 _3) ?? what would you do to add a cover adjustment for urethane?
Good...No, excellent follow up. Nice system to follow.
So my questions comes with some balls consisting of polish in collaboration with a ybrid or solid overstock, does the addition of polish change the -6, -3 or +3based of your scale or is the polish a null and void feature?
Hi JR Raymond,
How do you assign level? Based on the chart, it doesnt appear to be based on score - i.e. lowest number are on top(makes sense), then highest numbers are in the middle, then medium numbers are on bottom? Or are you just sorting based on coverstock?
I have been looking at my arsenal and haven't figured out what to do. I want to stick to 3 balls plus my spare. I have a Choice Solid, Hammer Rhythm, and Hustle Ink. Coming in at 189, 192, and 217 respectively. I could drop the Rhythm for a ball I have that's at 202 to fill the gap. Has also been suggested to get Web MB(206) or Axium Pearl(204). Thoughts please!
Like the simplicity of the number formula. It has helped me organize my thoughts about my current set and also helped me think about what ball(s) I might want to add to my arsenal. Wondering if you have given any thought to how to account for asymmetrical bowling balls. Thanks!
Like your video - suggestion to factor in the intermediate diff, so as to further differentiate between asymmetric and symmetrical weight blocks.
195 for my Golden Jackal. Which of the three categories would you place that ball? Hope you can do a Motiv version of this.
Absolutely amazing information. Great tool to use before league season next year
How would you classify particle balls, same +/- rating?
JR, can you provide the link for that arm swing trainer you demoed in a previous video(the one that keeps you behind the ball)?
Very interesting method to compare balls. Would be very curious as to how you rate asym balls - which by the balls I measured fall in the 205 range, mostly have hybrid covers - yet are designed for med to heavy oil so are “strong” ???
What about asyms, does the intermediate diff have an effect on the calculation? Would that number be added to the total differential?
What cover score would you put on a polished solid coverstock like the hy road x?
This seems to be an good idea (arsenal by the numbers), one question, did my arithmetic, one surprise, shows my heavy oil sold ball is #2 behind my solid med/heavy oil ball. ??
I know this is an older video, but question. Using the method for getting these numbers - the 900 Global Flux @ 14lbs shows 2.62 rg and a diff of .022 so that would be a number of 240 so does that mean that ball is extremely weak?
Does Polish on a solid ball change the formula any? And does urethane go in the solid category?
Not sure how this works out unless I'm doing it wrong. I don't have any overlaps, but it's got my Widow Legend as the strongest ball in my arsenal. Stronger than my No Rules solid. I came up with a 189 for the WL and a 192 for the NR. Also it's got my Tribal weaker than the DV8 Outcast at 221 vs 218.... In reality, on the lanes, none of that is true.
JR do you have a number range for the second and third tier? You mentioned 190's for the benchmark tier.
Thanks Tim
Have you ever done a video explaining the reasoning behind changing ball? What is the oil doing and causing that causes you to shift to a particular type of cover?
really like your videos but wish you could find some volume balance. I keep getting blown out by the spike in volume for the intro/outro stuff :(
Ditto. I love these videos that's literally my only complaint lol. Turn it up to hear him. Then down when the intro or outro comes up
Great video! looking at your pyramid, can you explain how you grouped your tiers? cause if I was going strictly by the numbers, I would have thought all the low numbers would have been your first tier, medium numbers your second tier and higher numbers your bottom tier. However you have a mix of number ranges at each level (with the bottom tier having a low of 196 and high of 214). This has confused me a bit so what other factors are you considering when grouping the balls?
This was a reply I made to someone else, but it fits here:
The balls he had in the bottom tier were all pearl, which are going to naturally cut through the oil and hook more on the backend. I also think he was implying that they'd be drilled for length with angular backend to maximize the pearl reaction. These would be balls you could move in with and get around the transition in later games/blocks, hence the reason they're in the last group. The numbers are the quantitative part of the system, but the layout is a qualitative aspect (and not discussed in depth here). The layout can move a ball between tiers, as well, irrespective of the surface/core number (195, 200, etc.), because of the reaction characteristics of a particular layout and where in a set/block you'd usually use that type of layout. The upper tiers were both drilled for "stability" and would likely be control layouts or maybe stronger layouts based on the bowler's style and release --- good for when the pattern is fresh.
@@jglotzbach3264 thanks for your insight. Since the layout of the ball has such a major impact on what tier the ball will fall into, then the layout should have a quantitative factor in the total number. Otherwise the numbering doesn't provide much use. For the purpose of this video, all other variables should have remained constant. I. E. Each ball should have had the same layout so that the differences in reaction can be based off the dynamics of the core and cover. Having an unknown variable such as layouts throws everything else off.
Just my thoughts...
Very interesting rating/classification system. I'm a Roto Grip/Storm loyalist, so I'll save my observations until that chapter is uploaded. But applying this method to my current arsenal yielded some surprising results.
Me too .. what about the extra differential in asymmetics? I got a score of 170 for a Sure Lock ..
Same on mine. My hustle ink is apparently more powerful than my IQ Emerald...
Is there a coverstock ranking for urethanes?
I just ran the numbers for the balls from Storm and Roto Grip. I noticed that the Winner Pearl and the Halo Pearl were only 1 number apart, but they are 2 full steps apart in the Roto Grip lineup. In that instance will the weight block play a role in the reactions of each ball?
Sounds good if you just throw out of box cover stock. Is your equation cable of taking into account when they are altered? Such as polishing a solid cover or putting a little grit on a pearl?
I'm sure you could do that yes.. if you have a ball that's a 199 and need a 202 I'm sure you could just hit it with lower surface to make it fit that spot
Still a bit confused on all this, thinking on going statement solid and pearl, with the flawless, and spare ball
JR Raymond if you invented this numbering system ur a genius!
Can you explain what the final score number means and what purpose it serves?
Hey JR... you mentioned +/- for solids and pearls but what about urethane?
How would you rate the Hammer Black Widow Urethane?
Ok, I get your meaning. But what I wanted to know now, with all these numbers and the nine degrees of separation. How far apart should the numbers be to determine a good arsenal. Looked at Radical conspiracy pearl and ludicrous solid
248-56=192+3=195
253-50=203-6=197.
Are these two to close number wise?
In addition would you have the same drill set up on each ball or different drillings?
I wish you would update this little series you did
Have you ever had looked at any of the motiv ball?
King pin, hy road, hy road pearl, and now trend 2 just to slide between the shapes
It's been 5 years since you made this video. Do the figures still hold today? I ask this because of the new coverstocks that have come out since then. Example would be Microcell polymer or HK22 Cohesion.
JR, Malcolm here. It was great talking with you this past weekend at the Harry O'Neil Chesapeake Open Tournament. My question is when there is a Urethane ball involved, how is it classified as? Solid or Pearl? The Hammer Pearl Urethane is difficult to understand whether it be pearl or solid. Can you give me some knowledge about that? Thank you.
Would a reactive resin be a hybrid?
Cool concept JR, I am still trying to get my head around it. I don't really understand what the 3 tiers are based on? 197 on top, 211 in mid, 196 on bottom... There must be a factor outside this number you are using? Would surface grit make sense to include? Like just lose the zeros on grit level so 2000 abralon would add 2 or 5000 (polished) add 5?
The balls he had in the bottom tier were all pearl, which are going to naturally cut through the oil and hook more on the backend. I also think he was implying that they'd be drilled for length with angular backend to maximize the pearl reaction. These would be balls you could move in with and get around the transition in later games/blocks, hence the reason they're in the last group. The numbers are the quantitative part of the system, but the layout is a qualitative aspect (and not discussed in depth here). The layout can move a ball between tiers, as well, irrespective of the surface/core number (195, 200, etc.), because of the reaction characteristics of a particular layout and where in a set/block you'd usually use that type of layout. The upper tiers were both drilled for "stability" and would likely be control layouts or maybe stronger layouts based on the bowler's style and release --- good for when the pattern is fresh.
I like the idea of adding something to the numbers based on surface prep. Good concept.
Please definitely do the radical video
These are really good! Simple and understandable for someone like me :)
What comes first exception bowling talent or a bad ass arsenal?
I have seen others comment and I would be interested too if asymmetrical vs symmetrical cores make any differences
Don't see any Black Widow line balls in here. Is there a reason?
What number do you assign for urethane cover?
I would think that doesnt apply here. Urethane pretty much always has the same shape.
My arsenal consist of:
Solid Proton Physix 189
Hybrid Phaze3 194
Hybrid Tank Blitz. 208
Pearl Radical Results 213
did you do the Brunswick and storm videos??
Hi JR! I liked the way you ranked the balls, on how to built an arsenal. I have a question though, concerning those ball that are: 1. Solid Polished and 2. Pearl Hybrid. Can you please elaborate on how to rank these specific two? Thanks in advance!!!
It's not a science but I would say you could rank a polished hybrid as a pearl and a polished solid as a hybrid cover... use your best discretion would be how I would go
Great videos... Thanks! Do one for 900 Global please?
Rip’d solid, web tour, flawless good 3 ball?
Hi JR, could you please explain me why Precision ball is on top and Choice is on the bottom (balls with same Rg 2.49 and Diff. .054)
Pearl vs Solid
And for example if i have a purple hammer, how do i do the numbers for it?
Same as all others. Technically it's a pearl urethane. Add +3. Remember it's just to give you core/cover values. Not a science to say a lower number has to be stronger than a higher number
Would you just score anything with surface on it like you would a solid and polished balls like they're pearl?
Colin McNair was just about to ask this, specifically something with an altered surface or something like a Match Up Black Pearl
All scores are based on out of box surface.
@@Tenpindoctors Thanks for the response, so even for something like a hustle ink you would score -6?
@@colinmcnair5519 Wondering the same thing, I was thinking of scoring it -3 or something to account for the polish. But even at the box it still comes in at a high 217 score so IDK
Can you make a storm roto chart
What about asymmetric balls?
So it appears that based on the scale you presented us the lower the number the stronger the overall ball? How does your scoring system compare to bowling ball.com's perfect score system?
Simple, 180-190 storng. 191-215 mid streagh. 215+ equal bottom end before urathane.
Tru Blu32 thanks for the clarification
I have 194 (Storm Optimus) 218 (DV8 Outcast) and a spare ball. Senior Bowler Avg.150 No tap league on a house shot. My first league. Mostly use the Storm. Although, been using the DV8 to pick up spares on the left side. Lanes are usually oiled about an hour before we bowl. Any thoughts on another ball? Still battling with getting consistent thumb release. Having a blast though.
Upnet I'm not sure what is your rev rate and speed
Tru Blu32 Will see a coach in the next week or so. However my speed has come up from 11 to 14 if you believe what the computer says.Not sure what my rev rate is. That’s one reason I want to get a coach.
Upet based on speed I say you probably have about 200 to 250 rev rate. And if this is the case I would stay with the 194. May be something with your aporch. Hope it works out for you, good luck and good bowling.
are you going to do a 900 global video?
What about Urethane?
Urethane cover... +6?
I have a spare...a 218 and a 194 in my arsenal
Where is the storm video?
Great video as always JR. I'm a new bowler and struggling to know if my current layout is for me or not. Can you explain the different drilling layouts on a ball and how that would effect it's reaction?
@Bill Schenher Thank you, I will check it out.
Check out Effective modern layouts by Mo Pinel. it should help you understand how you should layout your balls based on your particular style of bowling.
@@renaldabean7434 thank you, I will look it up.
@@renaldabean7434 thank you, I will check it out.
What cover would the new Infinite physix be described? Hybrid?
No its a reactive pearl just like the astro physix
What about asyms
If I could afford a 6 ball arsenal that would be great. How about a good 3 ball arsenal. Just getting back into the game after a 30 year absence.
I know you say it’s not an exact science, but I think something is definitely not right with this. Based on the numbers, my Columbia 300 Sabre Solid ends up as 250 - 54 - 6 = 190. No way that’s stronger than my Storm Crux Prime at 250 - 52 - 6 = 192.
I assume all of this assumes the same drilling. Where you put the pin plays a pretty big part in when the ball starts to roll.
That what I'm thinking too
Are you still planning to make arsenal videos for other ball brands?
Yes
Correct me if I’m wrong. A ball that has a smoother arc and a lower differential is a Strong ball. A ball that has a higher differential, and is very angular is a weak ball. Most people think the opposite. That a hard angle is strong. Most ball review videos seem to indicate that. So what’s the truth?
Differential = flare potential. The more flare potential means more over all hook... lower rg means stronger earlier roll.. think you have RG and Differential mixed up
ua-cam.com/video/xU6KlP2VRmw/v-deo.html
I saw this, which is why I asked about strong vs weak bowling balls.
So I have a radical conspiracy and a storm physix and the number system would say it’s a stronger ball than the physix but I find the conspiracy longer 🤷🏾♂️
Looking forward to a Motiv video on this.