Tailgating and hypermiling on A Motorcycle - The DEADLY Truth?
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- Опубліковано 25 тра 2024
- I NEVER advocate doing anything you are uncomfortable with. Just don't. How DANGEROUS and deadly is tailgating while hypermiling on a bike? Here are my thoughts a the ONLY facts I could find.
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My primary survival tactic for 34 years of riding is to stay as far away from everyone as possible. Also, don't worry about dying: worry about living in pain and dependency.
Great way to ride! Looks like we have about the same years of street riding experience! Very cool 😎
@@MCCJustMotos u have 3 years of riding?Wow i thought it was more than that
@@greenrush4313huh? I have 35 years of street riding. Where did you see/hear I had 3 years?
@@MCCJustMotos Really
@@greenrush4313ha! Totally got me! Very clever.
I prefer to have a solid 100' gap between myself and any morons. tailgating is off the table.
Most states mandate 10 feet for every 10 miles per hour, but it sounds like you have a great method that works for you!
I drafted another motorcycle, staying within 3 or 4 feet from his rear fender. This was back in the 1960s and we were on the way to York or Carlisle, PA to watch some flat track racing. I was on a 305 Dream, behind my buddy on a SuperHawk. On the way back home the rest of the group had to stop for gas, but I still had plenty. It was easy to tell when you were in the right spot as I could roll off to half the throttle I was using when out of the draft. There are dangers to drafting someone, the obvious ones plus encountering and pissing off the driver ahead of you.
Great story! Yes “drafting “also known as tailgating can piss drivers off for sure! I usually only do it to vehicles that don’t know I’m behind them 🤓
Average reaction time for a driver from seeing a brake light to applying your brakes is 1.5 seconds, and in one second at 70 mph, you travel 104 ft. My experience on bikes around crazy drivers I wouldn't risk it. You are only trying to conserve energy, but the vehicle in front of you will think you are being a tailgating asshole and brake check you when you don't expect it.
Agreed on all your facts! A slipstreming motorcycle driver at a triggers edge readiness to brake, I’d say is well under that 1.5 seconds. However I personally never slipstream behind cars, the juice is not worth the squeeze to me on that. I slipstream behind semis and closed window vans who I try and not piss off. I think I’m stealth behind them ;)
Trucks and trailers get their tires retreaded instead of replacing them. When the road is very hot, the new tire tread can fail to adhere and fall off leaving a pile of rubber in the road. Not great
For sure a possibility, I will retort that while very rare it it can happen and I’ve seen it in action…once again the retreads usually kick you the side a bit. But definitely, don’t do anything you’re not comfortable with!
Drafting is as dumb as splitting lanes. There's enough to think about out there, and most incidents are caused by people, whether two wheeler humans or four wheeler humans. Good report.
Interesting! Have you ever seen or even heard of anyone getting in an accident or injured by lane splitting???
@@MCCJustMotos ...I have. More than a dozen times. The lanes here in Georgia are barely wide enough for the cars. I doubt there is 36 inches between mirrors. I have seen at least 5 people seriously injured from lanesplitting.
@@HappyBuddhaBoyd Exactly and that is my point!!! That’s what I’ve seen too! And I’ve also seen data showing it dangerous. I’ve NEVER seen ANY data showing drafting when hypermiling is dangerous, and I’ve never known anyone to get in an accident doing such. The only data I’ve seen is contrary. However, I NEVER advocate doing anything you are not comfortable doing l, nor am I trying to convince anyone otherwise. I’m asking for anyone to share data or any statistics that show it dangerous.
I’m a rider and a “cager” lol. If I’m
In my truck and a bike was riding my ass, there a chance I may drastically slow down without braking and they what?? I know I won’t be taking responsibility for a dead rider having to be scraped off my tail gate.
Great point! That is why I never draft behind cars, trucks, or anything with a rear window. Stealth mode drafting!
I tuck behind trucks on the freeway when it's rainingl I extended the 3 second rule to 5 seconds had no issues so far been riding for 3 decades
Glad, and I’m in the same boat as you!
Deadly truth? Here it is: riding a motorcycle is cause it's fun, it's liberating. Drafting a truck (or whatever) let's you experience none of that, so unless you're a cheap bastard and cant afford gas, hypermiling defeats the purpose of motorcycling.
Ahh well motorcycling is tremendously fun, freeing and exciting! It can ALSO be EXTREMELY and ridiculously amazing at saving you $$$. An example, this EV Motorcyle I’m riding costs less than the cheapest entry level Harley nightster to buy. I also costs me about $1.10 per 100 miles with 0 maintenance costs over the life of the vehicle. My gas bikes average 40-50 mpg. On premium fuel that cost ($4.50 per gal) that is $9.00 per 100 miles and probaly $11 factoring routine maintenance. My EV is 1/10th+ cheaper and it is the MOST Exhilarating best feeling bike to ride own. Only by drafting can I get 110 miles highway range and use the last 30 to drive it however I want. Commuting (drafting or not) is not exactly a free and amazing riding experience, might as well make it super cheap!
@@MCCJustMotos Ahh... missed that you're riding an EV. As someone who's made & x-continent raced EV (car), I TOTALLY get that. When you're doing power management, drafting is a high.
You got it!!
the reason there are no studies on the dangers of "drafting while hypermiling "is that you are searching it wrong, try the keywords "Tailgaiting accident statistics", the people who wrote the study figured most people might be smart enough to figure it out. guess they were wrong on that one.
I totally thought of that too! I looked for EVERYTHING! Tailgating, tailgate, following to close, running into backs of other cars, slipstream, slipstreaming, hypermiling, accident, truck tire blow outs, tread blow out, detread, Motorcyle accident statistics, dangerous, stastics, facts..etc. Very little and what is out there is contrary.
That includes the hundreds of thousands UA-cam videos. Lots of statics and videos and content, but all contrary. Please share if you find anything!!
Rocks flying out of truck tires or out of the bed have bounced and broken my windshield at 60MPH!
Ouch!
@@MCCJustMotos yeah freaked me out hitting windshield in front of my face.
Keep your distance from other vehicles at all times. You never know when you are going to encounter a driver who is having a bad day and will see your tailgating as provocation to start something. I've seen road rage incidents over lane splitting. Cars will always beat motorcycles.
Great to hear what you are comfortable with! I don’t slipstream cars, I stick to semis and closed window vans and hypermile only in stealth mode. I don’t want to piss the drivers in front of me off!
tail gating or not you need to be focused 100 percent of the time. I would not recommend this practice of getting too close and also you will not have the escape route either side of vehicle in front, neither can you see what is in front of the vehicle you are tailing closely..I would not recommend doing this to an experienced biker let alone a novice.
All you points are 100% valid and I actually agree with them. I never recommend or advocate doing anything you’re uncomfortable with! Thanks 🙏
I've hit and barely missed so many deer in NC they alone keep me in 4 wheels. I ve seen a motorcyclist hit a dog and another a bird hit him right in the face. Neither was pretty, the bird caused two black eyes , a badly swollen and broken nose but unlike the dog hit he stayed on the bike.
That is kinda nuts! Do you think drafting close to a semi would help the deer not hit a motorcyclist and instead hit the semi? I don't know, but it would probably help out in the bird situation.
@@MCCJustMotos How close is it necessary to be to gain the draft. Most times when a deer is unfortunate enough to get hit by a simi the deer is launched ahead then possibly ran over reducing deer to let's say hamburger. That might be a problem or they may clear the road ahead a biker. I was an off road rider/ racer. I wasn't trying to put riding down, I'm sure it has rewards and I love a cool looking bike.
Thanks! anywhere from 6-100 feet back you can catch some draft.
Hitting deer on your bike is just fucked up. I've hit two, it makes a hell of a mess but I got away lucky (not so much the radiator.) Haven't ridden in years but when I think about it that sort of deal pops back into my head.
Make no bones about it, no matter what you do, what gear you have etc. motorcycling is dangerous as all holy honking Hades!
Well said! Glad you came out 👍 okay.
In order to draft you have to get within a few feet of the vehicle in front of you to do it. Years ago I tried it and I had to get within about 5 feet of a truck to do it. Stupid to do it!
While I understand your assumptions, the truth of the matter is that starting about 3 car lengths being a semi you can start to experience measurable wind resistance savings. However, to achieve optimal results you are mostly correct and that you would have to be at least 6 feet or closer to a semi to almost eliminate any aerodynamic drag. I never advocate to anything you’re uncomfortable with and good thing you set your personal comfort level!
You will, sooner or later, end up buried in the back of something slower. Too much beyond your control that you assume you can compensate for. Confidence in your own ability is undoubtedly a good thing but I know your take on this will change if you do indeed live long enough to develop a more mature approach.
I don’t think you are incorrect. As I have said in other comments, I 100% want to see any sort of data that would help determine what an acceptable (to me) distance back or to the side or whatever best position is. Is drafting 20’ back a semi 200% more risky in causing a serious accident it is it .2% ? I mean we all know there is risk in riding motorcycles, that is a fact and one we accept. There is a 30% + greater chance for ALL motorcyclists to die or get injured in a crash and a 30%+ greater chance to get in an accidnt in the first place. I think your close in the mature assement, but I’d say more “data driven” is my approach. Cheers!
@@MCCJustMotos I doubt you will accept any data against your close minded ideology.
Please share all the citable data and statistics you have!!
good luck
Thanks 🙏
While it may have been true a couple of decades ago, Motorcycles do not have better braking than modern cars. Most modern performance cars will dramatically outbrake a motorcycle - my 911 will stop in 30-40% less distance 60-0 than most sport bikes. Even run of the mill modern cars/trucks can outbrake a motorcycle 60-0. Your humble little Ford Maverick will outbrake a Ducati Panigale 60-0.
I agree and that is why I NEVER tailgate CARS. Semi’s have a long way to go.
@@MCCJustMotos When you follow other vehicles so closely, you also are denying yourself reaction time to various road hazards. As someone who has been riding on the street for over 35 years, I think that you’re really rolling the dice tailgating any vehicle. Obviously, it’s your call and your own personal risk, unless you’re drafting another motorcycle and putting them at risk.
It sounds like we have about the same street time riding experience, that is very cool.😎 I never advocate doing anything anyone is uncomfortable with! My main point is that while we can all come up with feelings and thoughts as to why slipstreaming can or should be more dangerous (and some to retort that), the data just does not support it. That surprises me a bit, but also fits my personal experience too.
You can make all the excuses you want to justify riding carelessly,it's your life.i myself practice self preservation and nothing I say will change your mind.i hope that works out 4 you.
I’m glad you do what you feel comfortable with! I totally advocate that. I’m totally open to having my mind changed as I am sure you are too! I respond best to data and statistics and less too to gut feelings on things. Cheers!
who told you that motorbikes have better stopping power than cars??? it's 100% false. you have half as many braking wheels, and you run on a much smaller contact patch with the ground.
I should have been more clear I was speaking about bikes vs. semi’s and box vans.
I'd rather rear end someone in a car, than to rear end someone on a motorcycle. Riding among other drivers is too unpredictable. Not going to risk my life to save a few cents on gas. Most motorcycles get better gas mileage than cars anyways. If your are worried about gas, then get a Prius.
Great to hear your own safety rules! I’d rather not rear end anyone! 😂
I know two good riders that were ran off the road one crashing in a ditch breaking his leg. Both crashed but one had worse bike damage than body. In both cases the drivers kept going, leaving them. It's not the bikes themselves that worries me. It's what's around the curve. Ride safe and be aware .
Smart rules to live by!
Have you considered that the reason for the lack of data on accidents related to drafting could be that, fortunately, not many people have the same stupid idea as you, and not because it "might not be so unsafe as people think it is."
I think most riders value their life more than a few dollars saved, or are riding bikes for other reasons than saving money and would sooner be caught dead than to draft behind a truck for any more than a few seconds...
I mean you go do whatever you want, just don't suggest this ridicolousness is normal, and even safe, to people who may not have the same abilities and experience as you.
Take care not to become the data you are unable go find...
Totally great points and well articulated! I absolutely consider (in the current tense) that not many people do it. With the amount of tailgating I see, (and I bet you do too!) I’d say that it’s probably not the case. I could 100% be incorrect for sure, but again I’m begging others to provide statistics contrary to what I see or have found. If I wasn’t clear, I don’t and never advocate doing anything you are not comfortable with. Do what makes sense for you!
Just don't do it if you want to live! Pure stupidity!
I mean you could say the same thing about motorcycling in general. 30% greater chance for ALL motorcyclists to get in an accident and 36% higher % to get in a serious accident or get killed. We all accept that risk and mitigate it to what we feel comfortable with.
Tailgating on a motorcycle is as intelligent as lane splitting. Both are a one way ticket to DEATH.
🤔 Hmm have you EVER seen or even heard of someone you know getting in an accident lane splittting? Have you ever seen any UA-cam video clips of someone getting in an accident lane splitting?
I doubt you will accept any data against your close minded ideology. I hope you have alot of insurance and a sturdy helmet.
I’m BEGGING people to share data!
Semis cantstop that fast. The isue is if your right behind atractor trailor and the tire blowsits like a bomb going off and if u get slapped with a tire belt doing 70 yourfucked. Stay away from trucks
Great argument, and that is one of my biggest concerns too. I’ve watched all the tire blow out videos I could find and I’ve yet to find one where the blowout or detread did not initially kick out to the side. I’m sure there is some amount more risk, but the facts just aren’t there.
@MCCJustMotos if your in the other lane or behind Another car ....they run it over.... kicks it up and it fly at you
wildly. If your in heavy traffic stuff goes everywhere and is unpredictable. I have been behind 6 or seven blowouts on semi , close enuff where I saw the blowout. I've had two cracked windshields(van). From the debris getting kicked up from other cars Get around semis quickly and don't tuck immediately behind them your asking for trouble
@@alphacapo I’m sure there is some sort of risk there. I’d love to know what it is specifically. How far back you need to be exactly, do you need to be the side or directly behind, etc. Unfortunately this type of data just doesn’t exist. Where is MythBusters when you need them for this specific data.
I don’t think this is well thought out. It seems like you might just be a risk taker and that’s okay but it’s clearly not safe. Absence of data is not something I’d hang my hat on. Again, motorcycling is risky and I accept that risk but I’d be a fool to deny it.
ahh this is probably the BEST argument yet, bravo! I don’t say it’s NOT RISKY I am begging someone to show any sort of data to help determine just how risky it is. Is it 80% more dangerous, 1.6%, is there a better safer way to to do it? All I have is my one 35 years of riding experience which I am comfortable with, a few sparse studies and some supporting UA-cam videos that seem to go with my argument. Not great, but I’m hoping to get more data.
Why don’t you do what the Super bikers do and slide in under the trailer and let the trailer drag you!!!
That way all you have to do is keep the bike upright and grab onto the trailer underneath!!!!
No fuel cost and the truck does all the work
Come on champs up your game lmao 😂
Send me a link showing me video of the super bikers doing just that, sounds like an interesting investigation.
@@MCCJustMotos it was a joke meant to mock people with no common sense
I’m a trucker who’s been driving truck for 8 years and I train new drivers with a focus on safety
Here’s the facts
Trucks have recaps
Debri can get kicked up by trucks
Trucks block your view of the road ahead
You tailgate and you can die
If you don’t want to intentionally drive your bike underneath the trailer then you should not put yourself in a position where you may end up underneath it due to an accident
Vehicle run under accidents kill drivers allot
Don’t let trying to save a few dollars on gas cost you your life and the sanity of the operator of the truck that kills you
@seancahalinchristianbrothe1400 I did understand your joke/intent. ;) Your experience is super helpful. Have you ever had a motorcycle or “hypermiler” run into the back of your trailer? I’ve not known any to ever do that, when hypermiling. I’ve known people to do it not paying attention. From your experience, when a tire blows or a retread comes off, does it go straight back in the centerline of the trailer or to the side (and then later on maybe straight back)? I ask because in all the dash cam videos I’ve searched for (100’s?) , I’ve seen tires, tread, and debris kick out or kick out before more straight back. Thanks!
@@MCCJustMotos if you have to have proof that it happens then you should just keep doing what you are doing until it happens to you
Just because you’ve never seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
I’ve seen lots of accident videos and I can tell you 100 percent that motorcyclists are at a safety deficit because of their size and lack of protection around them.
I’m just going to simply say “don’t tail a truck or a car because it’s dangerous and risky”
If you do it to a trucker like me I’m going to call the police and report you for reckless driving
Tailgating is against the law because it’s dangerous
@@seancahalinchristianbrothe1400 oh, I don’t need to see it at all! That is why I’ve value experts that drive daily 1000’s of miles for their insight. That is why I’m asking you on what you see 100%. My questions were serious and I value what you have seen/experienced with regards to my questions.