Thanks for the details, from an actual trumpet player, Elliot. In the future... I'd be interested in hearing about "false fingerings" or other workarounds players use for certain notes. For example, when I was a kid studying arranging, I thought that all baritone saxes were equal. Trouble was that the first band I wrote for, the bari player had a custom key on his sax, allowing him to play a step or so (I forget exactly.) lower. That proved embarrassing when I went to a local college band, and the bari player told me the part was "impossible". I know there are quirks like this to be aware for many horns... B natural to Bb, for example, on a standard tenor trombone. For me today, these would just be "informative", but for a new and more-active arranger, they might be truly helpful. Regardless, I'm consistently enjoying your content, so carry on, sir! ::)
Thanks Elliot! Your channel is so awesome! It's helping me tremendously with writing my first major BigBand piece. I had a teacher who always said things like "you could do this or this or that.." it's so refreshing and clears out so many misconceptions to hear somebody just say "you shouldn't do this" and "you should do that instead", which of course isn't set in stone and yet I'm feeling like I'm taking lots of shortcuts thanks to you!
Elliot, I'm not sure whether you're addressing this video to PLAYERS (and their skills level) or to ARRANGERS... The actual filmed demonstration is great. But...I'd rather diminished the over talking, and SEE much more written examples and listening to them. Thanks!
@@PandemoniumBigBand Oh, please! I'm very interested! I typically write for classical orchestra, but there are so many specifics concerning the big band composing and arranging, and your videos are of great value to me. One of the things I particularly like about your channel is its practical side, which makes it the first place I go when I'd like to consult myself on some topic. Recently, a fellow trumpeter demonstrated the sound of the different mutes to me. He talked a little about things that the arranger should have in mind. Unfortunately, I don't know any trombone players, so... I'm counting on you :) Cheers
@@PandemoniumBigBand I wasn't saying that it was a good thing. I've played that chart & the brass always complain. That's when I figured out on my own not to do that. Same thing when having saxes double.
Love these lessons, thanks a bunch! Here’s a question for you, maybe even a video idea: when writing soli/block chords, when are repeated notes ok and when should they be avoided?
The short answer is… if the melody has repeated notes, then repeated notes in the harmony is good. If the melody is moving, the lower parts should move in parallel. But this isn’t always possible. Repeated notes only become a huge problem when the tempo makes them difficult to play.
@@PandemoniumBigBand Cool, thanks! Would I be right in assuming that tempo might also be a factor? Like repeated slow notes are less problematic than fast ones?
Hi Elliot. The video series is growing to epic proportions! Thanks once again for sharing your knowledge. I thought I might as well hit you up with a question I have, as I'm struggling to figure it out by myself. I've read that you can double the saxes with flutes, clarinets, bass clarinet, and flugelhorn for trumpets. I was just wondering if there are any guidelines out there for embellishing parts written for traditional big band with full orchestral wind and string sections? I've tried briefly exploring some symphonic jazz, but can't work out the mechanics beyond recognising that different sections might take their turn to shine whilst other sections sit back and do support or take a rest - not very useful as I want to know what I can do with a string section whilst the trumpets and saxes are in full flow! It feels a bit redundant to just double up the saxes with 1st violins and trumpets with 2nd violins, for example, on the otherhand having the strings voicing the chords as a pad feels a bit muddy.... Any tips, or is it left to composers ingenuity? Cheers. (Maybe this would be good for a future video?)
I don’t think I’ll be making a video about string arranging very soon. Not because it isn’t a great topic, but because I don’t have nearly enough experience doing it to consider myself any expert (as of now). I recommend listening to big band albums that use strings… maybe Sinatra, etc. Try to listen for how strings were utilized in the past. In my limited experience, pads are great. The strings definitely add to the texture, so an arrangement with strings would use the rest of the band a little bit less. Think, the strings play 50% of the time, then the saxes/brass play 25% less than usual. Something like that.
@@PandemoniumBigBand Thank you so much for responding Elliot! That makes total sense. I think I've managed to 'solve' my problem by having my strings break away from the main phrases and hold out notes to create a pad only at certain points as the band plays on. Probably sounds terrible to seasoned pros but I'm having fun! Thanks again for repsonding so quickly!
You mention a Flugel as a 'mute', the other great option is "Play in stand". The other problem with not writing a warning on a mute change or not giving enough time to change a mute before playing the next section is when the trumpeter drops the mute either on the ground or in the pile of mutes. That's not a sound the composer/arranger (or audience) really wanted to hear. hahaha For arranging, do you typically try to avoid lower ledger/low notes as the mute tends to block too much of the air (and frequencies) and keep the middle staff/upper so the sound projects better?
For trumpet, mid range sounds the best. Too high and it becomes too difficulty to play (because of the added resistance that the mute adds). Too low and the mute makes intonation impossible. For trumpet, keeping the parts within the treble staff is a good rule-of-thumb.
Hi Eliot, i love your work and your dedication! Thanks for helping me be a better jazz producer I’m trying to find part 2 and 3 for mutes! Could you help me please ?
Glad to help! And glad you found this video useful. Unfortunately it is one of my worst performing tutorials… I’m not sure if there is much demand for part 2. :(
Hey if you buy a hardware store plunger, give the stick to a percussionist friend because they'll like it for cowbell
Save the trees! Way to recycle!
Thanks for the details, from an actual trumpet player, Elliot. In the future... I'd be interested in hearing about "false fingerings" or other workarounds players use for certain notes. For example, when I was a kid studying arranging, I thought that all baritone saxes were equal. Trouble was that the first band I wrote for, the bari player had a custom key on his sax, allowing him to play a step or so (I forget exactly.) lower. That proved embarrassing when I went to a local college band, and the bari player told me the part was "impossible". I know there are quirks like this to be aware for many horns... B natural to Bb, for example, on a standard tenor trombone. For me today, these would just be "informative", but for a new and more-active arranger, they might be truly helpful. Regardless, I'm consistently enjoying your content, so carry on, sir! ::)
Quick question with the time to remove a Harmon mute, what sort of period is reasonable for this?
Thanks Elliot! Your channel is so awesome! It's helping me tremendously with writing my first major BigBand piece. I had a teacher who always said things like "you could do this or this or that.." it's so refreshing and clears out so many misconceptions to hear somebody just say "you shouldn't do this" and "you should do that instead", which of course isn't set in stone and yet I'm feeling like I'm taking lots of shortcuts thanks to you!
You totally get it! Good luck on your arrangement.
@@PandemoniumBigBand Thanks! btw, I did hit that funky button you always talk about. Cheers!
Elliot, I'm not sure whether you're addressing this video to PLAYERS (and their skills level) or to ARRANGERS... The actual filmed demonstration is great. But...I'd rather diminished the over talking, and SEE much more written examples and listening to them. Thanks!
As I said in the video… that is coming in part 3.
I can't find the next 2 mute videos?
No one seemed interested in mute videos… maybe I’ll make a follow up over the summer
@@PandemoniumBigBand Oh, please! I'm very interested! I typically write for classical orchestra, but there are so many specifics concerning the big band composing and arranging, and your videos are of great value to me. One of the things I particularly like about your channel is its practical side, which makes it the first place I go when I'd like to consult myself on some topic.
Recently, a fellow trumpeter demonstrated the sound of the different mutes to me. He talked a little about things that the arranger should have in mind. Unfortunately, I don't know any trombone players, so... I'm counting on you :)
Cheers
Very interested!
Have subbed!
07:18 Check out the original Benny Goodman version of "Stompin' @ the Savoy" hardly any time at all to change mutes!
Just because that band made it work doesn’t mean it’s the best way to do things.
@@PandemoniumBigBand I wasn't saying that it was a good thing. I've played that chart & the brass always complain. That's when I figured out on my own not to do that. Same thing when having saxes double.
Love these lessons, thanks a bunch!
Here’s a question for you, maybe even a video idea: when writing soli/block chords, when are repeated notes ok and when should they be avoided?
The short answer is… if the melody has repeated notes, then repeated notes in the harmony is good. If the melody is moving, the lower parts should move in parallel. But this isn’t always possible. Repeated notes only become a huge problem when the tempo makes them difficult to play.
@@PandemoniumBigBand Cool, thanks! Would I be right in assuming that tempo might also be a factor? Like repeated slow notes are less problematic than fast ones?
@@bashtracks yes.
Hi Elliot. The video series is growing to epic proportions! Thanks once again for sharing your knowledge. I thought I might as well hit you up with a question I have, as I'm struggling to figure it out by myself. I've read that you can double the saxes with flutes, clarinets, bass clarinet, and flugelhorn for trumpets. I was just wondering if there are any guidelines out there for embellishing parts written for traditional big band with full orchestral wind and string sections? I've tried briefly exploring some symphonic jazz, but can't work out the mechanics beyond recognising that different sections might take their turn to shine whilst other sections sit back and do support or take a rest - not very useful as I want to know what I can do with a string section whilst the trumpets and saxes are in full flow! It feels a bit redundant to just double up the saxes with 1st violins and trumpets with 2nd violins, for example, on the otherhand having the strings voicing the chords as a pad feels a bit muddy.... Any tips, or is it left to composers ingenuity? Cheers. (Maybe this would be good for a future video?)
I don’t think I’ll be making a video about string arranging very soon. Not because it isn’t a great topic, but because I don’t have nearly enough experience doing it to consider myself any expert (as of now). I recommend listening to big band albums that use strings… maybe Sinatra, etc. Try to listen for how strings were utilized in the past. In my limited experience, pads are great. The strings definitely add to the texture, so an arrangement with strings would use the rest of the band a little bit less. Think, the strings play 50% of the time, then the saxes/brass play 25% less than usual. Something like that.
@@PandemoniumBigBand Thank you so much for responding Elliot! That makes total sense. I think I've managed to 'solve' my problem by having my strings break away from the main phrases and hold out notes to create a pad only at certain points as the band plays on. Probably sounds terrible to seasoned pros but I'm having fun! Thanks again for repsonding so quickly!
A video on the rhythm section??
It’s on my list.
This is excellent advice. Thank you.
You mention a Flugel as a 'mute', the other great option is "Play in stand".
The other problem with not writing a warning on a mute change or not giving enough time to change a mute before playing the next section is when the trumpeter drops the mute either on the ground or in the pile of mutes. That's not a sound the composer/arranger (or audience) really wanted to hear. hahaha
For arranging, do you typically try to avoid lower ledger/low notes as the mute tends to block too much of the air (and frequencies) and keep the middle staff/upper so the sound projects better?
For trumpet, mid range sounds the best. Too high and it becomes too difficulty to play (because of the added resistance that the mute adds). Too low and the mute makes intonation impossible. For trumpet, keeping the parts within the treble staff is a good rule-of-thumb.
Great stuff.
Hi Eliot, i love your work and your dedication! Thanks for helping me be a better jazz producer
I’m trying to find part 2 and 3 for mutes! Could you help me please ?
Glad to help! And glad you found this video useful. Unfortunately it is one of my worst performing tutorials… I’m not sure if there is much demand for part 2. :(
@@PandemoniumBigBand that’s indeed unfortunate… anyway I love your contents ! You’re doing a great job
This channel is an absolute goldmine!
Keep digging... there's more treasure the deeper you get.
Thanks for watching! Tell your friends.
@@PandemoniumBigBand the berklee jazz comp students take notice.