I don't think this is the right way to think about it. You don't just fight against any enemy as you play the game. For example, why penalize poison or spirit weapons because they can't kill necks? You're going to 1 shot them by the time you get a weapon capable of doing those damage types. Rather, the best way to think about it is a weapon tier list for the biomes that come after or at the time you would acquire them. If I craft an iron sword, how would it perform at the swamp, mountain, and plains, and at what point would it become obsolete? Basically, how much value would I get out of the sword?
one benefit of axe weapons is the cost to build is essentially zero since you would have built it anyway for faster tree cutting. The bronze axe in particular is one of the most important upgrades in the game and absolutely worth rushing and upgrading aggressively. skeletons and greydwarves take an extra 50% fire dmg so the lowly torch is actually one of your best weapons for much longer than you might think. It's only really outdone by a Q3 wooden club
I've just picked this game up off steam 4 days ago. And I'm totally hooked!! It's amazing! Only just found the 1st boss! It's so challenging and I love that! Watching video on UA-cam and it scares me how big this game actually is!
Not sure about your math there. Blunt + Pierce equaling 42 doesn't take into effect the amount of damage of each type the weapon deals. Done the damage will be less of each type because it's split, you can't just add them together. the 27 should be a factor that you multiply by amount of blunt damage the weapon does and the 15 should be multiplied by the amount of piercing damage it does. And even then, these are just generalized numbers. Not to mention they don't factor in attack speed, and since they are generalized across all mobs, they don't tell you how a weapon stacks up against any one specific mob. Definitely seems like a good starting point though.
I would change the math up a bit: add up the effectiveness you have on the left, don't subtract anything. So resistances would be +0. Because having spirit at -5 doesn't really make sense, it's a net positive just not as good as other things. It would also be cool to then rate the weapons by using percentages of these scores based on the percentages of how much of their damage type is that type, instead of just adding it together totally, because that's more like if every weapon was 100% one kind of damage AND 100% another kind of damage but that's not the case.
Good point. Also, it doesn't make sense to subtract resistances because they are entirely determined by the number of non-resistances. Those numbers are two sides of the same coin.
Spirit is not a net positive because if something is immune to it then it takes no damage. This was also a calculation of what weapons will to base damage or more to monsters. If a monster takes less damage from a type even if its only half you are still better off using a weapon where it would take base or more. So it is a negative. As for percentages I could probably do that pretty easy with the data I have but those numbers that you see in the video are already representative of how effective the damage time is overall.
@@Firespark81 unfortunately we are probably going to need to come back to the math on this one, like the layout of mobs, be useful to put each weapon in a column next to them with a power score then consider all rounders and specialty weapons
@@Firespark81 Except spirit is a bonus stat. All spirit weapons have a basic damage type that's equaling to their weapon tier 4 placement and an extra spirit component that makes them equal in damage to tier 5 weapons to mobs that are vulnerable to it.
Here's the thing though, this doesn't factor in unique aspects of the weapons fighting style, like knockback or parry/block strength. Yes, I can probably get more dmg out of frostner on average rather than the crystal axe, but the axe has a massive knockback and high chance to stun the enemy, especially fulings. I also can use that battleaxe to clear trees much more efficiently than a one-handed axe. Also, the battleaxes calculate dmg to multiple targets differently than most weapons. A sword hitting 4 targets would divide the dmg evenly amongst them. The battle-axe takes a small percentage in decreased dmg per target. The mobility and stamina drain of a dagger makes it super effective when coupled with a buckler, but its limited range and knockback means you're also easily overwhelmed by multiple targets. Porcupine has greater dmg output than frostner, but frostner lets you slow down targets and get some increased control of a fight against multiple targets. So ultimately, yes, dmg output is important, but what is brilliant about the weapons in this game is how different they all affect the dynamics of the fight. Personally, I'm really enjoying using frostner and a shield for some messy scraps, but the battleaxe is fantastic when cleaving through multiple weaker targets like skeletons, or decimating fulings (if you time it right). Maces are definitely the strongest weapon type, but the different weapons work better with different fighting styles. buckler + knife + troll armor is an awesome combo for fast, agile, and stealthy fighting. Heavy armor + battleaxe/atgeir/sledge is great for tanky high damage roles. point is, try everything, they're all fun.
The 'overall power' seems a bit ambiguous, tbh. Consider the relative frequency of each mob type varies not only by biome but activity, your scheme gives the same weight to a neck that it does to Moder. I think most players plan their weapons versus boss fights, since it really makes a difference there. This chart of yours is a great snapshot of how effective damage is versus enemies, but maybe separate the categories of boss and non-boss? Your conclusions are solid advice, and I appreciate the time you spent assembling the data. How about sub-categories? E.g. Fulings as an enemy class, undead as an enemy class, or perhaps segregate things by biome to say, in the swamp use this, in the meadows use that, etc. I am sure you already have all of these things planned, bro. You DID say you have a ton of video ideas.. so I am looking forward to more! Keep being awesome.
Good breakdown, but a lot of analysis is left to do. The fact that stagbreaker has the same power level as the porcupine makes it clear this is only the start. Not only do we have to consider the amount of damage each class does at various levels, but also the attack speed.
@@PapaSMURFFS Range and stamina usage vary widely between weapon groups. Knives have lower drain but lower range, maces have average range and higher drain. Actually I'm not really sure how stamina-per-second compares since the knife drains less per attack but also attacks faster. Also the fact that it needs to hit mobs more times to get a kill means it could actually be higher stamina per kill as well. It's hard to say.
Agreed. you need to look at DPS, multiple hits against grouped opponents and damage per stamina. Also, some weapons have bonuses for linked attacks (3 for the sword) or can have a high alpha (thrust with the sword and backstab with a knife) Then you look at things like Poison arrows and Fire arrows that are bonuses on top of pierce damage that that are inflicted over time, at range. The analysis above is great for picking our a good "all round" weapon that is usable in almost all circumstances. You would want deeper analysis for more strategic weapon choices against specific foes.
I think the right tool is situational, but you show how many situations call for a blunt weapon. I totally agree with you about starting early to level up your blunt skill. i.e. on Day 1, make a club. It's not hard to upgrade the club with bone that you find in dolmens, troll cave entrances, and skeleton drops.
The power ratings have a flaw that favors split-damage types. For this rating system to function as intended, you should average out the power ratings instead of adding them, since the overall damage of the weapon is split between them. For example, knives do less overall damage than swords, and that damage is split between the two types. If you lose one of those types (say, piercing) you're literally left with a worse sword. Same thing if slashing is lost, you've got a worse spear. The power rating on knives is not representative of the actual usefulness simply because the split damage is being added together. If you instead use the averaging method on the Porcupine and Stagbreaker, you still get a very respectable 21, which means it will be more useful than pure slash/pierce weapons because of its versatility, but lack when fighting things that are resistant to pierce compared to a pure blunt weapon. In this way, the pierce holds the weapon back rather than making it more useful. Ideally using your research, it might be better to recommend a pair of weapon types (like maces and bows) to use together compared to a single weapon type taking the crown and only using that. Blunt and pierce pair well with one another to cover the weaknesses of each other for the most part, plus the bow offers a ranged option when it's needed.
There are a few issues with how you created this table. First in how power was calculated. Resistances and full immunities should be treated differently when it comes to calculating overall general power. A good reason for this becomes apparent when you compare spirit damage and poison damage. Yes poison has more resistances but spirit has more full immunities and at least poison will still do some damage in more situations and the fact that spirit literally does nothing in more situations should be accounted for somehow. Perhaps consider adding power totals up as decimals depending on how resistant things are with a full -1 for a immunity. Second the power totals at the end for each weapon should probably take into consideration the actual stats of a weapon. Showing that the stag breaker has a power rating of 42 by adding together it's pierce and blunt rating of 27+15 doesn't really show how good the weapon is or how it actually performs since in reality it's pierce damage in game is 1/4th that of it's blunt damage and 27 blunt to 15 pierce isn't that same ratio. To fix this simply multiply each weapons damage by the power value. You'll get a much higher overall power rating as a number but it'll also more accurately represent the overall general effectiveness of a weapon in the entire game. Yes I know this isn't calculating class power anymore and is now getting into specific weapons but then again the stag breaker and the sledge are the same class and you had them separated. The sledge is clearly the better weapon for damage in, as far as I can tell, every situation but since you separated them the flaw in the calculation you used becomes much more apparent. Maybe use my first suggestion to create the class power and the second one as a new video If you want to go into that much effort. Extra points if you divide each weapon into tiers so players can use it as a guide to figure out which weapons are best for which tier. I hope you take the criticism well I genuinely just want to help.
1 thing I think that should be included aswell is the avg damage range from each class on weapons themselves. The effectiveness of each class can be out-weighted by higher avg damage on the weapons themselves. For example it wouldnt matter if slashing was more effective on more targets if the raw damage for piercing is double on most weapons( I know this isnt the case just using as an example). 25% more of 100% less damage is still worse even if the numbers a yellow. Hope that makes sense lol
timing matters a lot on these things. Blunt is strongest in the first half of the game when you're dealing with skeletons and oozes, but it falls off a lot after you defeat Bonemass.
I had a feeling, but thought maybe I was biased since I have used maces leading to Porcupine every playthrough I've done. Seems like I'll be sticking with what I know and like!
Very good summary. Thanks mate. One important point to consider, though, is speed of attack. This is why I mostly favour swords over Porcupine. If I get two hits in, most things are dead before they can hit me. This is more difficult with any blunt weapon.
great breakdown. very informative. thanks for the effort in working this all out in a nice understandable format. however, i'd like to see the different arrows calculated in conjunction with the bow's pierce as you'll do for example fire and pierce with fire arrows etc. though i don't think it can fairly compete with the system you worked out. but it would still be cool to see as an archer main player
I hope he does that next because the bows are so different from melee weapons, he talks about poison here but thats only for bows unless I’m just blanking on a poison melee weapon rn
A mace is a very good generalist weapon, so it's a good and easy option unless you decide to target enemies' individual weaknesses. Nothing wrong with using a sword if you prefer speed, though. And I've personally been content with axe and spear. I make good use of the throw to stagger, charge and stab method.
The other factor to consider is prevalence of what enemies are in the biomes you're working in. Like how slash isn't great in Black Forest because the only threatening things (trolls and undead) are resistant, and the idiots can be taken down with anything. But it's great in a lot of other environments. I suspect that as more biomes come in, it'll change up. Like ashlands is probably gonna be frost damage's dream.
Few issues with your comparison. For starters only the bottom quarter of the chart matters. Neck doesn't hold the same weight as a goblin yet in your chart they are equal. That said, divide your conclusions based on zone. For example for swamp you want this type, for plains you want that type, for mountains you want this type and so on.
Yea I agree. He's looking at damage types in a vacuum. I think the video is a bit mistitled since the only useful conclusion you can actually draw from it (which he does) is, 'what types of weapons will be most effective to level your skill up with throughout the game'. Comparing a starting tier 2H weapon (stagbreaker) to an end game 1H (porcupine) is ridiculous. He also completely ignores the different utilities of different weapons such as larger knockback or frost damage slow. Saying "Avoid poison damage!" is pointless as it doesn't consider that you can only get it on a bow as purely supplemental damage (draugr fang) where nothing is sacrificed for it. The other source being poison arrows which you dont need to use.
I came here to say exactly this. Having the broadest coverage of enemy types doesn't matter much if half of those enemies are in biomes you don't visit or are enemies that any weapon can kill in one swing. A biome-by-biome damage type analysis done in the same fashion would be much more useful.
I had a feeling maces were one of the strongest weapon types of the game. I will admit though on my first playthrough I really underestimated knives. I think I'll try making more use of them on my next playthrough.
I started with spears because of the alt attack helped with hunting deer and kept using it because of trolls but the spear seems to stab over the top of mobs and miss so I started using the mace because of skeletons and just stuck with it ever since
Good breakdown but it has to be considered that Spirit damage is circumstantial. In all places it /can/ be good it is /really/ good, almost the entire swamp biome save the fire elementals, Bonemass, AND Yagluth. Same goes for poison. Where its good - it is very good. That being said yes your everyday weapons should clearly be the porcupine and axe xD
I agree about spirit and the swamp but a mace is also very strong in the swamp as most stuff in there is weak to blunt. So this is why a weapon like frostner is just stupid OP in the swamp.
@@Firespark81 Indeed. Frost damage really comes into its own on 'wet' mobs and is absolutely invaluable when first breaking into the Plains, for the snare effect on those pesky gobbos.
It all comes down to what you’re facing up against. Honestly, in the early game you can use a dagger and shield combo, and a bow. Atgeir is great for crowd control which makes it ideal for mopping up after raids.
Attack speed, pushback, crit multipler also play a factor for me with respect to damage. For example, the pushback on clubs and maces usually makes the 3rd swing miss, that's a big damage decrease. A further consideration is utility. Frostner with its slow is very valuable when first entering plains for example. Your analysis is a good start, but, only show's the damage with respect to weakness of the mob.
i think it only makes sense to focus on 1 biome at a time. and to exclude everything that is a 1-hit wich varies on your progress in your game and your choice of 1h/2h weapons. atm i go with silver sword and shield, and losing out on the spirit dot against everything in meadows and black forest isn't a concern. then there are other reasons like using an axe saves 1 inventory slot as it serves as a weapon and a tool. anyways nice and helpful video
Great analysis but there is other aspects than damages like weapon speed, weapon range, knockback, special effect. For example the Frostner slows down ennemies. It gives a great advantages when facing a hord of furlings (Am I the only one calling the green guys gobelins?) I often start a challenging fight with Frostner to slow down then black metal sword to kill faster Then there is the gameplay that fits you
I always go with swords because i value attackspeed, low knockback and overall dps. A good parry and you can always get a 3 hit combo off that deal extra damage, or a devastating secondary attack.
Silver sword best all around weapon. Good damage good, stamina usage, good attack speed, alt attack is great on bosses. doesn't get combo locked like the axe when trees are around.
I’m team swords too. Clubs may sim better but the knockback makes killing things take twice as long with clubs. Also who wants to chase a corpse halfway across the map to loot it?
@@dsullivan777 yeah I use my bow and it's pretty amazing. I used flint spears and they are fun but I have lost them due to throwing then having to look for them if I miss.
I'm partial to the flint knife + sneaking/backstabs wherever I can land them. But I'll give the spear a go. Already did rounds with the club and the axe.
you need lots of iron for housing necessities like windmills, king size beds, and hot tubs. The spirit dmg is really only there to put the swamp on easy farm mode and enable your triumphant return. It's also nice for tar growth i guess now...
Ok there is a secret weapon in the game that i have heard no one talk about. The wind mill. Its pretty much just a temperamental deathsqito machine but when the wind is blowing hard it can damage most mobs
Hey Firespark, thanks for all your vids ;) great work :) and fun. Sorry I have to point out that the combination of the powervalues should be nomalized, since the damage is spread over the different types (so alt least e.g. for frostnir divide the sum of the vales by 3 since damage is spred over 3 different types...) - still good work, Cheers
Clubs are the best overall weapon but in the plains specifically atgeir is probably the best (except when fighting yagluth). It can parry and absolutely destroy loxes, it can parry upto 1 star fulings and get two pokes out (short range weapons have trouble getting hits out without a wall at your back because of the knockback), you can safely normal attack fulings even without getting a parry and the special attack helps with hordes and can stagger 2 stars to get those critical hits (while you would need atleast a lv3 black metal shield and atleast lvl 30 blocking to parry a 2 star).
Even without this very good analysis, it's abundantly clear from just playing the game the superiority of blunt weapons, especially when paired with a shield that can parry. If people can notice that without this kind of analysis I think Iron Gate need to get someone in who has experience developing combat systems from scratch for a rework. They have something raw and beautiful in the combat that already exists, but at this point they are just making weapons that look cool (eg Crystal Battleaxe). I would love to see them incorporate some (but not too much!) class archetypes like 2h berserker, sword and board, rogue and archer. Each one can then have a relationship with either stamina or health. This would then have to work with (rather than against, as it is now) the food system. As it is, the stamina consumption on 2h weapons does not work with the food system as you need health for protection but also stamina for combat but in H&H they made you choose either/or. Maybe a stamina or health refund ability could work. And something like that could exist for other class types.
Means you're losing durability that much faster, though. Its good in a pinch, but I wouldn't forgo a weapon to save inventory for something I intend to use as a tool.
@@Smitty-hr2mg I wouldn't be using a bow in situations I'd be using a melee axe to fight. Personally, yes, I'd always carry a bow. But doesn't resolve the issue at hand, and you're definitely not saving inventory space with your stacks of arrows needed to go with it.
@@zotaninoron3548 a bow is something you actually want to always have with you... you can sneak on dears but bow is much easier, also if you run into a troll... bow is again easier cause weak to pierce. If you haven't played multiple runs and play for the first time... troll scary. If you have to be close to bioms you don't wanna be in yet... you still might get enemies from that biom. Keeping the distance helps here too.
@@vadimblin Yes, I would always carry a bow and several kinds of arrows. But at that point you're not 'saving' inventory space by having just an axe as a weapon *and* tool. I would still have another weapon to use as a melee weapon for when trying to run and shoot isn't practical or desireable for whatever reason. If I wanted to use axes, I'd have two axes so I'm not spending durability of attacking on trees and vice versa.
It's an interesting ranking system, but weighting the effectiveness by biome (with later-game enemies counting more) would produce better results I think. Yeah, most stuff in the swamp is immune to poison, but I'm still going to rock the Draugr Fang - poison works on fulings.
Maybe I'm crazy, but what I get from all this data is it looks like swords, since other than the silver sword are all slashing damage, and slashing damage is #2 on the power ranking where all the higher end blunt weapons have a reduced amount of blunt damage due to splitting damage types, the best over-all weapon would be a sword. But I'm prone to illogical logic at times... Oh, and as an FYI about Moder, I've tested both the fire arrows and poison arrows and because the poison arrows do more piercing damage and she's not resistant to poison the poison arrows seem to do more overall damage to her than fire arrows even though she's weak to fire. I guess her weakness to fire isn't strong enough to make up for the low pierce damage of the fire arrows.
Very useful video, but I wouldn't put inconsequential enemies in your spreadsheet power rating as though they are equally weighted (i.e. neck's sprit resist doesn't matter). And i think you need to weigh in the weapon's overall dps as another factor (e.g. a lower power rating weapon might be more acceptable if its dps is very high).
That's why I use only axes in early and switch to Frostner after elder.... but a regular player won't get Frostner after elder
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Nice job! I only use Ooze bombs to disperse fulings. But with the fuling tactics update, I don't know if it will still work! :) Also, at game start, I usually skip the stone axe until I get flint. Meanwhile I farm my wood with the club on beech saplings, it levels up my Club stats!
Main weapons: Porcupine, Black Metal Knife Secondary weapons: Draugr Fang, Iron Sledge (use it only when surrounded by a large group of enemies) Will definitely consider upgrading my Frostner after watching this video!
Spears imo is one of the safest weapons in the game, you can throw it at enemies without problem and do a lot of damage, and just go and pick it up walking in circles around the enemies in the meantime without getting hit. You can also hit normally and just do a dodgeroll left or right to avoid any hit in the game, the weapon have fast attacks so the chances of getting hit is low. Edit: you won’t be stuck in any attack animations like most other weapons, so you might not take those free hits from enemies like you do from slower weapons
Spear has a pretty abysmal range as well as not being the only melee weapon that doesnt have a hitbox capable of striking multiple enemies. It definitely has its uses but its for sure an early game weapons when you compare it to the better options for lategame.
@@joshg5352 thats not true can hit more than one enemy with the spear melee attack when they are in front. Plus using the Spear with a shield is great for blocking quickly right after you land a hit then need to parry, very underrated playstyle imo
I think the special attacks and unique AOE and or knockback of certain weapons can reallly make them shine. It all depends on playstyle too. AOE of the iron sledge is amazing, also, the crystal battleaxe is great if you do the special push attack on a group it staggers them all and you can wind up and slash them all.
Best: Blunt. Most creatures are vulnerable, least creatures are resistant or immune. Worst: Spirit. It comes far too late to be useful at all. By the time you can get it, you can obliterate creatures vulnerable to it without it.
Frostner is my go to for... almost everything. I’m usually the front line if I’m in a group, tanking everything. I think it’s one of the strongest in the game, honestly. It’s crowd control is insane for most of the enemies you fight, slowing speed and attack. Even solo, just swing, take a few steps back, swing again. It makes you, almost, invulnerable
Nice work with that spreadsheet! But it could be better, counting resistances and immunities as the same power and counting weaknesses the same as neutral damage doesn't seem fair, also that power of the weapons shouldn't just be added but added with the proportion of the damage i.e. with knives it's 505 slashing and 50% piecing so it should be 19*0,5+15*0,5=17. I might redo that spreadsheet myself and see what comes out (probably still blunt).
Ya I suggested something really similar. TO add power values up as decimals to account for resistances being better than full immunities and to add the total values up at the end depending of how much damage the weapon actually does. If you did this poison would probably come out as better than spirit and stag breaker wouldn't look like it's better than sledge.
The way you calculated these types is ignoring how effective each type of damage is though. To get a true sense of "overall power", it may have been best to have effective damage count as 1.5 or 2 counts and resistant damage count the same depending on how resistant they are (1 for .5 damage, 1.5 for .25 damage, 2 for 0 damage). Aside from that, this was a great concept and a very well made vid. Good work!
I think he did it this way just to count the number of mobs vs who it s ok to use this type of weapon, like saying it s ok to use mace vs 31 type of monsters
I don't think damage numbers by themselves tell the full story here. For example, the atgeir is really good at dealing with groups of fulings in the late game because it has such a wide area of effect despite having a low score by your metrics. There's also stamina consumption to consider.
Maces are very good, but swords are faster and good as well. The attack speed and stam use figure into the play style. Thanks for the breakdown of this topic.
I've been leveling clubs and axes. Clubs, because they are easy to build and still effective. Axes, because I have them on hand while I'm chopping wood.
I think the damage types are somewhat balanced by the actual gameplay. Poison is nice against drakes. Frostner can be completely clutch with the freeze slow it applies which really helps survival against being swarmed.
It´s an interesting video, but in my own experience, the usability of each weapon changes with the biomes and overall game progression. For example even If a mob is immune to Spirit damage and even Frost damage and you are wielding Frostner - you are still capable of dealing with most of the early and midgame mobs quite well. So what Im basically trying to say is that If the mobs scaled somehow with the player´s progression in terms of their HP and DMG, then this guide would be much more accurate. Either way, It is a decent video that summarizes some facts that others might not be bothered to look up :D
I remember grabbing my notebook and doing a similar breakdown for mobs not long after me and some friends started playing the game back in March. A friend of mine pointed out that while the mace is good for a lot of things, the knock back on them is a mixed bag, it's bad when you have one enemy that you want to deal damage to and it's good when you have more enemies and you're trying to control the fight. With that said Frostner is one of his favorites, and mine, for clearing out goblin camps, the slow effect from frost damage can be better than having a porcupine.
on the other hand using the special attack on that one greydwarf that won't stop interrupting your building session just to send it flying to the nine realms is the greatest joy in this game
This is great! I suggest including a multiplier for each enemy type once you add/subtract them up. For example, Bonemass is a boss and resistant to poison, so it can have a 1.2 (arbitrary) multiplier. Skeletons are standard mobs so they're just 1.0 (or 0.8, you decide), etc. etc.
good stuff, except you are missing enough data points for this to actually be meaningfull. You touch on it with stagbreaker. You needed to add in the datapoint of damage per swing, and damage per second. Do this and redo the math and you will start to get useful data. Then you need to do this per age(flint/bronze/etc) and correlate it with the monsters there. And then talk about the game mechanics of weapons(speed being one of them)
I look forward to your Iron Cage support guide. I still do not understand how it can do what it is doing. 18x18 square stone platform on top of a tree.
Great video and content, as always! I'm just missing the correlation to the Biomes... it would be great to group the mobs into areas so we could select the best weapons assortion accordingly.... Could you please share this spreadsheet? Thanks!
pretty good, your right if you look at it alround. got the sheet available? i want to work the numbers, see what happens if you take out the bosses and the meadows prey you one-shot.
Some valid criticism in the commentary about the applicability of the "power" numbers. But, its a useful generalization. The left hand side of the chart is VERY valuable. One can plot/plan ones weapons choice per biome, and plan to build the relevant skill. Thank you for listing in the "enemies" in biome order!!! As you say, you're planning a few more vids with the numbers. May I suggest a biome specific strategy that builds towards and overall "best balance" weapon skill strategy. May I also suggest a chart of all the weapons grouped by "tech" level (wood, flint, bronze, ...) and showing their damage split at maxed skill. This would complement the LHS of the chart from this effort. Good work, as ever.
One more fun thing. I play with about 4 - 8 fps, which is "hard mode" caused by ancient computer. It is almost impossible for me to "stun" an enemy. For skeletons (especially in burial grounds) I first attack with a torch, then go to town with blunt (mace preferably). They're burning and easier to see and providing me with a light source. Similar tactic for Trolls. First shot, fire, then normal as I cart them, then another fire when the first has gone out, etc.. But first, get them into open space for the carting. Fire arrows are excellent for carting them into carting space :) Your graph shows me why this works.
why do you use effectiveness minus resistance? it does not make sense. like it has minus the resistance twice. also the nunber should not just added them up, it should be divided by the number of types of damages.
For example, for knife the total damage is 50% of slash and 50% of perice. So for a regular knife that is not made of silver should be ended up with 31*50% + 25* 50% = 28. For stag breaker, the level 4 fully upgraded one has 38 blunt and 5 perice the weapon effectiveness number should be 38/(38+5) * 31 + 5/(38+5) * 25 = 30.30. Porcupines in this case should be worse as it has more "less effecitve" perice damage, for fully upgraded one: Blunt 50, Pierce 63 => 50/(50+63) * 31 + 63/(50+63) * 25 = 27.65. Note : Only when this number times the weapon DPS will give you the final performance rating of a weapon.
started new playthru for h&h and decided to use axes and battle axes and its kinda fun. at least mpre fun than just everyone and their mother using blunt and only blunt for everything.
I commend you. I put 40 hours into a new world before realizing I didn't have another 300 hours per update to play how I like to. Very excited to start over with full release though. Enjoy.
Wanted to suggest doing some testing on raids mechanics. I haven't really seen anyone go in depth about it and all we really know are the basics like they're triggered after staying in your base for x amount of time and that beating each boss unlocks harder raids
First playthrough before H&H, I started out with Axe because I was lazy and didn;t want to swap between axe for trees & attacking. Had 20+ deaths in the swamp first play-through. This time I did a bit of research and what do you know - mace for swamp - so this playthrough switched to mace at beginning of swamp - much easier this time. Good to know I should just keep using it. Thanks dude.
You should, its a great weapon. All these online videos breaking down weapons like this mislead players. I've been playing the new update with the world modifiers, setting difficulty to max. Atgeirs are great, just for the secondary stagger. These lists try to use overall enemy counts to rate weapons, when the first 10-15 enemies on that list shouldn't even be included in the rating. I don't care if a weapon is good against a Neck, Deer, or a Boar, and bosses are special events you plan for. Overall, you want weapons that are fast (spears) and that can stagger, and are just plain strong. Bows are the best when your difficulty is maxed, especially since you can have different dmg types crafted, fire arrows, frost arrows, etc.
Have "always" gone for Club in early game, but had no reason for it. Now I have! Thank you! Can this data be used with DPS data, to make a timeline of when to upgrade to next weapon? Then we can make a "path" of how to most efficiently play Valheim. That would have value to me, because RL won't let me waist time on the computer, so when I play Valheim, I try to be on the point.
Yes I agree/knew (for the most part) what the results would be. It's a great analysis but leaves out real experience, like knockback/chase down, stamina consumption, stagger damage, etc. The devs keep messing with weapon use stamina so it might not be exactly up to date but it was still the knife and sword (in combination with a parry) that did the most damage and conservation of stamina in a prolonged battle. Club blunt is excellent but overall it's only OP in short battles that don't extend past resting buff and stamina use/regen; and the knockback absolutely suck you-know-what. Now many players like that knockback as it yeets the enemy away but it doesn't accomplish anything positive for an experienced player.
What I would like to see is the opposite, Vikings are VERY susceptible to spirit and poison damage. Armor level or shields should have very little effect against anything poisonous or especially the fuling shaman fireballs. I want to fear them again instead of merely patiently blocking them before finishing them off. I think they nerfed everything in the Plains now except maybe the growths, probably in anticipation of fitting in the biome level-wise; definitely went the wrong way for my fun-factor in replay-ability anyway (more grindy grind grind just to level up 5 points in health or stamina); I had to mod it to get that fun back and now I've gone so far the other way (very high energy and dangerous enemies) I'm not really playing the same game anymore; but, I'm having an absolute blast!
I would argue that poison shouldn't be devalued so much. Sure, it's trash early game, but there aren't currently any early game poison weapons. The late game mobs are all normal to poison damage. Saying avoid it all together completely negates the added benefit from a weapon such as Draugr Fang which stacks poison on top of whatever damage your arrow is throwing out.
yep, maces do an extra dmg to skeletons, blobs, stone golems, and pretty well everything that you want extra dmg for. Even loxes, which resist slash and blunt, the mace is still good because the porcupine does half blunt and half pierce dmg. At virtually every level, maces do extra dmg to the thing you are most scared of.
Saying to avoid poison weapons doesn't really make sense. Poison dmg only shows up on the bow+arrows, or on the poison bomb. Its not really a weapon type, there is only 1 weapon that has it, and its the best bow in the game atm. Poison arrows are really good vs drakes. And the bombs are very good vs packs fulings or wolves. Saying not to use poison is a little misleading. Its only cause there is so much undead in the game it ended up with a -9 on your chart. But in the snow and plains, poison is great. There are not really poison weapons per se. Only poison ammo which is situational depending on the zone you're in. Poison is good.
Poison is SITUATIONALLY good, even by your own admission. Blunt, however, is almost never bad. This video was not about situational uses, it was about the every day rollin thru the woods weapon you will pack.
@@getoffmedamnit You missed my first point: There is no poison class for weapons. There is only a bow, thats also the best bow in the game. There is no choice between poison or blunt weapon types. Thus, saying to avoid poison doesn't make sense. My second point was about the scoring system created to rank weapons. Giving a weapon a minus for having poison makes no sense. Just because there are alot of undead mobs that are immune to poison, doesnt make the dragur fang bow a bad weapon. You took the word "situational" that I used, and are trying to use it against me somehow? You shoulda read what I actually wrote more closely. Sounds like the only word you read in my post was the word "situational" and want to use it as a gotcha? smh
So when you say poison weapons I’m tryna think isn’t it just Draugr fang? and/or poison arrows and are you suggesting that the Huntsman bow is better than Draugr fang? I’m kind of confused because bows are kind of in their own category altogether at least when it comes to stamina usage/ dps right? And you don’t really talk about bows
I knew maces were the strongest from the get go. That said, even if a creature resists the frost damage of frostner, they generally don't resist the frost effect. That slow down on enemies is huge and what makes frostner a great utility even if it isn't the best in damage. I think the only foe completely immune to the slow effect are the stone golems, (and bosses) and frankly you shouldn't be fighting them if you are using a frostner, unless you absolutely need to. Just run.
@@robnauticus Yep, exactly what I dislike! I want a close in melee not a ef-off fight. I mean it's fun but not effective going solo in the long run with such limited stamina.
I think the game lacks one single thing, despite the sometimes empty world that needs to be filled up with NPCs and new Locations, it lacks Classes. There should be more items/weapons/armors and ways to get them so that players are encouraged to pick a class and play with it. Currently only Troll armor helps with being an archer and then every other armor is the same. The devs should add more items to diversify playthroughs and allow players to choose classes. Maybe add armor that buffs damage with Axes, or a staff that allows players to summon minions to fight for them along with armor that buffs the minions. I fell like the foundation for something like this is already in the game and the devs need to implement it, because every time I play with friends we all just craft Maces and wear the same armors bc it is the only viable option. :(
I agree and disagree with you on parts. I disagree with adding in classes. I feel that picking a playstyle can achieve the same, without the limitations class-systems usually bring. But i agree that it would be nice to have more specialized items which would allow people to go for more specialzed playstyles and pick specialized gear for that playstyle. There are currently fairly few items that could be considered sidegrades. Most armors and weapons are just straight upgrades over the same itemtype of the previous tier with close to no special characteristics.
thank you for this video, I have noticed that my level 4 Crystal Axe can kill a Fenring in 4-5 hits but a Stone Golemn seems that shrug it off. While a level 4 Iron Mace is devastating to a Stone Golemn
the funny thing is that frostner does a combination of blunt, frost, and spirit dmg, and porcupine does a combination of blunt and pierce. The iron mace is the most powerful mace that is also 100% blunt dmg. This makes it the best weapon against stone golems specifically by a large margin as they are immune to cold and spirit and very resistant to slash and pierce. ergo, it is well worth the effort to take an iron mace all the way to quality 4 to farm the swamps, kill bonemass faster, and fight stonegolems.
@@danielshagman hard to say. the Pickaxe will do more extra bonus dmg, but is also slower and has no 3 hit combo. The mace will just do it's regular dmg, but doesn't slow you down as much. It's my preferred choice since I almost always make a Q4 iron mace for the bonemass fight anyway
I havea suspicion poison resistance may continue into Mistlands. Based mostly on the idea current placeholder objects in the zone have a lot of spider webs, with spiders doing and resistant to poison damage. May be totally wrong and the zone might be completely different, but most mobs seem balanced around what makes sense rather than balanced gameplay.
I like spears. I usually have 2 with me, 1 to throw ahead of time at an approaching enemy and then the 2nd to melee. I also find I can usually hit an enemy twice with a spear before blocking with tower shield, I can only hit once with axe or mace (so 1 to throw and 2 to hit = 3 hits to the 1 hit of a mace). Not sure how all your math changes when you consider damage over time and multiple weapon use (which I guess is just the spear)...
I didn't realise knives were such a viable weapon, especially after the update, with the changes they made, I may have to revisit a knives & bow stealth playthrough
I don't think this is the right way to think about it. You don't just fight against any enemy as you play the game. For example, why penalize poison or spirit weapons because they can't kill necks? You're going to 1 shot them by the time you get a weapon capable of doing those damage types. Rather, the best way to think about it is a weapon tier list for the biomes that come after or at the time you would acquire them. If I craft an iron sword, how would it perform at the swamp, mountain, and plains, and at what point would it become obsolete? Basically, how much value would I get out of the sword?
This is next level, Firespark. The deepest of dives.
one benefit of axe weapons is the cost to build is essentially zero since you would have built it anyway for faster tree cutting. The bronze axe in particular is one of the most important upgrades in the game and absolutely worth rushing and upgrading aggressively.
skeletons and greydwarves take an extra 50% fire dmg so the lowly torch is actually one of your best weapons for much longer than you might think. It's only really outdone by a Q3 wooden club
Knife is my personal favorite. No movement debuff and very low stamina usage. Getting the abyssal early is a leap forward as well.
I've just picked this game up off steam 4 days ago. And I'm totally hooked!! It's amazing! Only just found the 1st boss! It's so challenging and I love that! Watching video on UA-cam and it scares me how big this game actually is!
The game is really fun and becomes more in depth the more you progress, but the grind is insane.
Grind is not that bad, it s actually fun , and game is amazing , a easy survival game
@@mammonquincy4039 silver is insane to farm
@@marcusherrero4132 just that , build a fire next to u and start diggin ..
@Slipp s Take your time and enjoy the game! It’s awesome!
Not sure about your math there. Blunt + Pierce equaling 42 doesn't take into effect the amount of damage of each type the weapon deals. Done the damage will be less of each type because it's split, you can't just add them together. the 27 should be a factor that you multiply by amount of blunt damage the weapon does and the 15 should be multiplied by the amount of piercing damage it does. And even then, these are just generalized numbers. Not to mention they don't factor in attack speed, and since they are generalized across all mobs, they don't tell you how a weapon stacks up against any one specific mob.
Definitely seems like a good starting point though.
I would change the math up a bit: add up the effectiveness you have on the left, don't subtract anything. So resistances would be +0. Because having spirit at -5 doesn't really make sense, it's a net positive just not as good as other things. It would also be cool to then rate the weapons by using percentages of these scores based on the percentages of how much of their damage type is that type, instead of just adding it together totally, because that's more like if every weapon was 100% one kind of damage AND 100% another kind of damage but that's not the case.
Good point. Also, it doesn't make sense to subtract resistances because they are entirely determined by the number of non-resistances. Those numbers are two sides of the same coin.
Spirit is not a net positive because if something is immune to it then it takes no damage. This was also a calculation of what weapons will to base damage or more to monsters. If a monster takes less damage from a type even if its only half you are still better off using a weapon where it would take base or more. So it is a negative.
As for percentages I could probably do that pretty easy with the data I have but those numbers that you see in the video are already representative of how effective the damage time is overall.
@@Firespark81 unfortunately we are probably going to need to come back to the math on this one, like the layout of mobs, be useful to put each weapon in a column next to them with a power score then consider all rounders and specialty weapons
@@Firespark81 Unless someone absorb certain damage, it should never be a negative.
@@Firespark81 Except spirit is a bonus stat. All spirit weapons have a basic damage type that's equaling to their weapon tier 4 placement and an extra spirit component that makes them equal in damage to tier 5 weapons to mobs that are vulnerable to it.
Here's the thing though, this doesn't factor in unique aspects of the weapons fighting style, like knockback or parry/block strength. Yes, I can probably get more dmg out of frostner on average rather than the crystal axe, but the axe has a massive knockback and high chance to stun the enemy, especially fulings. I also can use that battleaxe to clear trees much more efficiently than a one-handed axe. Also, the battleaxes calculate dmg to multiple targets differently than most weapons. A sword hitting 4 targets would divide the dmg evenly amongst them. The battle-axe takes a small percentage in decreased dmg per target. The mobility and stamina drain of a dagger makes it super effective when coupled with a buckler, but its limited range and knockback means you're also easily overwhelmed by multiple targets. Porcupine has greater dmg output than frostner, but frostner lets you slow down targets and get some increased control of a fight against multiple targets.
So ultimately, yes, dmg output is important, but what is brilliant about the weapons in this game is how different they all affect the dynamics of the fight. Personally, I'm really enjoying using frostner and a shield for some messy scraps, but the battleaxe is fantastic when cleaving through multiple weaker targets like skeletons, or decimating fulings (if you time it right). Maces are definitely the strongest weapon type, but the different weapons work better with different fighting styles. buckler + knife + troll armor is an awesome combo for fast, agile, and stealthy fighting. Heavy armor + battleaxe/atgeir/sledge is great for tanky high damage roles. point is, try everything, they're all fun.
The 'overall power' seems a bit ambiguous, tbh. Consider the relative frequency of each mob type varies not only by biome but activity, your scheme gives the same weight to a neck that it does to Moder. I think most players plan their weapons versus boss fights, since it really makes a difference there. This chart of yours is a great snapshot of how effective damage is versus enemies, but maybe separate the categories of boss and non-boss? Your conclusions are solid advice, and I appreciate the time you spent assembling the data. How about sub-categories? E.g. Fulings as an enemy class, undead as an enemy class, or perhaps segregate things by biome to say, in the swamp use this, in the meadows use that, etc. I am sure you already have all of these things planned, bro. You DID say you have a ton of video ideas.. so I am looking forward to more! Keep being awesome.
Good breakdown, but a lot of analysis is left to do. The fact that stagbreaker has the same power level as the porcupine makes it clear this is only the start. Not only do we have to consider the amount of damage each class does at various levels, but also the attack speed.
And attack pattern, range, stamina usage (although maybe that's common for everything?).
@@PapaSMURFFS Range and stamina usage vary widely between weapon groups. Knives have lower drain but lower range, maces have average range and higher drain. Actually I'm not really sure how stamina-per-second compares since the knife drains less per attack but also attacks faster. Also the fact that it needs to hit mobs more times to get a kill means it could actually be higher stamina per kill as well. It's hard to say.
Agreed. you need to look at DPS, multiple hits against grouped opponents and damage per stamina.
Also, some weapons have bonuses for linked attacks (3 for the sword) or can have a high alpha (thrust with the sword and backstab with a knife)
Then you look at things like Poison arrows and Fire arrows that are bonuses on top of pierce damage that that are inflicted over time, at range.
The analysis above is great for picking our a good "all round" weapon that is usable in almost all circumstances. You would want deeper analysis for more strategic weapon choices against specific foes.
I think the right tool is situational, but you show how many situations call for a blunt weapon. I totally agree with you about starting early to level up your blunt skill. i.e. on Day 1, make a club. It's not hard to upgrade the club with bone that you find in dolmens, troll cave entrances, and skeleton drops.
The power ratings have a flaw that favors split-damage types. For this rating system to function as intended, you should average out the power ratings instead of adding them, since the overall damage of the weapon is split between them. For example, knives do less overall damage than swords, and that damage is split between the two types. If you lose one of those types (say, piercing) you're literally left with a worse sword. Same thing if slashing is lost, you've got a worse spear. The power rating on knives is not representative of the actual usefulness simply because the split damage is being added together.
If you instead use the averaging method on the Porcupine and Stagbreaker, you still get a very respectable 21, which means it will be more useful than pure slash/pierce weapons because of its versatility, but lack when fighting things that are resistant to pierce compared to a pure blunt weapon. In this way, the pierce holds the weapon back rather than making it more useful.
Ideally using your research, it might be better to recommend a pair of weapon types (like maces and bows) to use together compared to a single weapon type taking the crown and only using that. Blunt and pierce pair well with one another to cover the weaknesses of each other for the most part, plus the bow offers a ranged option when it's needed.
Nice work Spark! I would love to see a weapon score per biome. A suggested weapon power progression from early to late game.
There are a few issues with how you created this table. First in how power was calculated. Resistances and full immunities should be treated differently when it comes to calculating overall general power. A good reason for this becomes apparent when you compare spirit damage and poison damage. Yes poison has more resistances but spirit has more full immunities and at least poison will still do some damage in more situations and the fact that spirit literally does nothing in more situations should be accounted for somehow. Perhaps consider adding power totals up as decimals depending on how resistant things are with a full -1 for a immunity.
Second the power totals at the end for each weapon should probably take into consideration the actual stats of a weapon. Showing that the stag breaker has a power rating of 42 by adding together it's pierce and blunt rating of 27+15 doesn't really show how good the weapon is or how it actually performs since in reality it's pierce damage in game is 1/4th that of it's blunt damage and 27 blunt to 15 pierce isn't that same ratio. To fix this simply multiply each weapons damage by the power value. You'll get a much higher overall power rating as a number but it'll also more accurately represent the overall general effectiveness of a weapon in the entire game. Yes I know this isn't calculating class power anymore and is now getting into specific weapons but then again the stag breaker and the sledge are the same class and you had them separated. The sledge is clearly the better weapon for damage in, as far as I can tell, every situation but since you separated them the flaw in the calculation you used becomes much more apparent. Maybe use my first suggestion to create the class power and the second one as a new video If you want to go into that much effort.
Extra points if you divide each weapon into tiers so players can use it as a guide to figure out which weapons are best for which tier. I hope you take the criticism well I genuinely just want to help.
1 thing I think that should be included aswell is the avg damage range from each class on weapons themselves. The effectiveness of each class can be out-weighted by higher avg damage on the weapons themselves. For example it wouldnt matter if slashing was more effective on more targets if the raw damage for piercing is double on most weapons( I know this isnt the case just using as an example). 25% more of 100% less damage is still worse even if the numbers a yellow. Hope that makes sense lol
timing matters a lot on these things. Blunt is strongest in the first half of the game when you're dealing with skeletons and oozes, but it falls off a lot after you defeat Bonemass.
I had a feeling, but thought maybe I was biased since I have used maces leading to Porcupine every playthrough I've done. Seems like I'll be sticking with what I know and like!
Maces have always been meta.
Very good summary. Thanks mate. One important point to consider, though, is speed of attack. This is why I mostly favour swords over Porcupine. If I get two hits in, most things are dead before they can hit me. This is more difficult with any blunt weapon.
great breakdown. very informative. thanks for the effort in working this all out in a nice understandable format.
however, i'd like to see the different arrows calculated in conjunction with the bow's pierce as you'll do for example fire and pierce with fire arrows etc. though i don't think it can fairly compete with the system you worked out. but it would still be cool to see as an archer main player
I hope he does that next because the bows are so different from melee weapons, he talks about poison here but thats only for bows unless I’m just blanking on a poison melee weapon rn
@@jujumagic8 The only other poison weapon i can think of is the stink bomb.
Although i have never used that so no clue how good or bad it is.
@@Landogarner83 Oh right I’ve also never used it, but yeah thats also a projectile weapon
A mace is a very good generalist weapon, so it's a good and easy option unless you decide to target enemies' individual weaknesses.
Nothing wrong with using a sword if you prefer speed, though. And I've personally been content with axe and spear. I make good use of the throw to stagger, charge and stab method.
The other factor to consider is prevalence of what enemies are in the biomes you're working in. Like how slash isn't great in Black Forest because the only threatening things (trolls and undead) are resistant, and the idiots can be taken down with anything. But it's great in a lot of other environments.
I suspect that as more biomes come in, it'll change up. Like ashlands is probably gonna be frost damage's dream.
Few issues with your comparison. For starters only the bottom quarter of the chart matters. Neck doesn't hold the same weight as a goblin yet in your chart they are equal.
That said, divide your conclusions based on zone. For example for swamp you want this type, for plains you want that type, for mountains you want this type and so on.
Yea I agree. He's looking at damage types in a vacuum. I think the video is a bit mistitled since the only useful conclusion you can actually draw from it (which he does) is, 'what types of weapons will be most effective to level your skill up with throughout the game'. Comparing a starting tier 2H weapon (stagbreaker) to an end game 1H (porcupine) is ridiculous. He also completely ignores the different utilities of different weapons such as larger knockback or frost damage slow.
Saying "Avoid poison damage!" is pointless as it doesn't consider that you can only get it on a bow as purely supplemental damage (draugr fang) where nothing is sacrificed for it. The other source being poison arrows which you dont need to use.
I came here to say exactly this. Having the broadest coverage of enemy types doesn't matter much if half of those enemies are in biomes you don't visit or are enemies that any weapon can kill in one swing.
A biome-by-biome damage type analysis done in the same fashion would be much more useful.
100%, over all value of weapon changes from biom to biom.
I had a feeling maces were one of the strongest weapon types of the game. I will admit though on my first playthrough I really underestimated knives. I think I'll try making more use of them on my next playthrough.
I started with spears because of the alt attack helped with hunting deer and kept using it because of trolls but the spear seems to stab over the top of mobs and miss so I started using the mace because of skeletons and just stuck with it ever since
Yea its better used on lvl ground or you have to fite up hill
A big element missing in this analysis is stamina usage. Also, nothing said about blocking/parrying, a huge element in combat in this game.
He has videos on blocking and stamina too
if it glows in the dark, it's a S tier wpn obviously
Good breakdown but it has to be considered that Spirit damage is circumstantial. In all places it /can/ be good it is /really/ good, almost the entire swamp biome save the fire elementals, Bonemass, AND Yagluth.
Same goes for poison. Where its good - it is very good.
That being said yes your everyday weapons should clearly be the porcupine and axe xD
I agree about spirit and the swamp but a mace is also very strong in the swamp as most stuff in there is weak to blunt. So this is why a weapon like frostner is just stupid OP in the swamp.
@@Firespark81 Indeed. Frost damage really comes into its own on 'wet' mobs and is absolutely invaluable when first breaking into the Plains, for the snare effect on those pesky gobbos.
It all comes down to what you’re facing up against.
Honestly, in the early game you can use a dagger and shield combo, and a bow. Atgeir is great for crowd control which makes it ideal for mopping up after raids.
Attack speed, pushback, crit multipler also play a factor for me with respect to damage. For example, the pushback on clubs and maces usually makes the 3rd swing miss, that's a big damage decrease. A further consideration is utility. Frostner with its slow is very valuable when first entering plains for example. Your analysis is a good start, but, only show's the damage with respect to weakness of the mob.
what bronze weapon would u suggest?
i think it only makes sense to focus on 1 biome at a time. and to exclude everything that is a 1-hit wich varies on your progress in your game and your choice of 1h/2h weapons. atm i go with silver sword and shield, and losing out on the spirit dot against everything in meadows and black forest isn't a concern.
then there are other reasons like using an axe saves 1 inventory slot as it serves as a weapon and a tool.
anyways nice and helpful video
Great analysis but there is other aspects than damages like weapon speed, weapon range, knockback, special effect.
For example the Frostner slows down ennemies. It gives a great advantages when facing a hord of furlings (Am I the only one calling the green guys gobelins?)
I often start a challenging fight with Frostner to slow down then black metal sword to kill faster
Then there is the gameplay that fits you
I always go with swords because i value attackspeed, low knockback and overall dps. A good parry and you can always get a 3 hit combo off that deal extra damage, or a devastating secondary attack.
Silver sword best all around weapon. Good damage good, stamina usage, good attack speed, alt attack is great on bosses. doesn't get combo locked like the axe when trees are around.
I’m team swords too. Clubs may sim better but the knockback makes killing things take twice as long with clubs. Also who wants to chase a corpse halfway across the map to loot it?
@@reevesj3 I would say its a tie between silver and blackmetal. I usually go with the blackmetal sword. Mostly because i hate mining silver.
@@septorch28 That last bit made me laugh :D
@@septorch28 tbf, there's nothing more satisfying than timing an alt-Frostner attack on an incoming Greydwarf and watching that pest fly/explode :D
I think the flint spear is the best early game beside the mace, due to the ability to throw and take down deer easly without having to suffer the bow.
Suffer the bow? Bows are disgustingly OP
@@dsullivan777 yeah I use my bow and it's pretty amazing. I used flint spears and they are fun but I have lost them due to throwing then having to look for them if I miss.
Haha I was literally chasing deer down with my axe for the longest time until I unlocked bows. 🤦🏽♂️
I'm partial to the flint knife + sneaking/backstabs wherever I can land them. But I'll give the spear a go. Already did rounds with the club and the axe.
you need lots of iron for housing necessities like windmills, king size beds, and hot tubs. The spirit dmg is really only there to put the swamp on easy farm mode and enable your triumphant return. It's also nice for tar growth i guess now...
Ok there is a secret weapon in the game that i have heard no one talk about. The wind mill. Its pretty much just a temperamental deathsqito machine but when the wind is blowing hard it can damage most mobs
lmao I only hunt with windmills.
Can you post the doc sheet somewhere? Killer video dude! Thanks!!!!
Hey Firespark, thanks for all your vids ;) great work :) and fun. Sorry I have to point out that the combination of the powervalues should be nomalized, since the damage is spread over the different types (so alt least e.g. for frostnir divide the sum of the vales by 3 since damage is spred over 3 different types...) - still good work, Cheers
Clubs are the best overall weapon but in the plains specifically atgeir is probably the best (except when fighting yagluth). It can parry and absolutely destroy loxes, it can parry upto 1 star fulings and get two pokes out (short range weapons have trouble getting hits out without a wall at your back because of the knockback), you can safely normal attack fulings even without getting a parry and the special attack helps with hordes and can stagger 2 stars to get those critical hits (while you would need atleast a lv3 black metal shield and atleast lvl 30 blocking to parry a 2 star).
Even without this very good analysis, it's abundantly clear from just playing the game the superiority of blunt weapons, especially when paired with a shield that can parry. If people can notice that without this kind of analysis I think Iron Gate need to get someone in who has experience developing combat systems from scratch for a rework. They have something raw and beautiful in the combat that already exists, but at this point they are just making weapons that look cool (eg Crystal Battleaxe).
I would love to see them incorporate some (but not too much!) class archetypes like 2h berserker, sword and board, rogue and archer. Each one can then have a relationship with either stamina or health. This would then have to work with (rather than against, as it is now) the food system. As it is, the stamina consumption on 2h weapons does not work with the food system as you need health for protection but also stamina for combat but in H&H they made you choose either/or. Maybe a stamina or health refund ability could work. And something like that could exist for other class types.
As soon as i killed the Elder i switched to blunt to be ready for Bonemass. Frostner is good for the rest of the current game.
Axe also cuts trees and only takes 1 inventory slot! Efficient multi-tool bonus points? Great work FireSpark
Means you're losing durability that much faster, though. Its good in a pinch, but I wouldn't forgo a weapon to save inventory for something I intend to use as a tool.
@@zotaninoron3548 That's why you carry a bow as well.
@@Smitty-hr2mg I wouldn't be using a bow in situations I'd be using a melee axe to fight. Personally, yes, I'd always carry a bow. But doesn't resolve the issue at hand, and you're definitely not saving inventory space with your stacks of arrows needed to go with it.
@@zotaninoron3548 a bow is something you actually want to always have with you... you can sneak on dears but bow is much easier, also if you run into a troll... bow is again easier cause weak to pierce. If you haven't played multiple runs and play for the first time... troll scary.
If you have to be close to bioms you don't wanna be in yet... you still might get enemies from that biom. Keeping the distance helps here too.
@@vadimblin Yes, I would always carry a bow and several kinds of arrows. But at that point you're not 'saving' inventory space by having just an axe as a weapon *and* tool. I would still have another weapon to use as a melee weapon for when trying to run and shoot isn't practical or desireable for whatever reason. If I wanted to use axes, I'd have two axes so I'm not spending durability of attacking on trees and vice versa.
It's an interesting ranking system, but weighting the effectiveness by biome (with later-game enemies counting more) would produce better results I think. Yeah, most stuff in the swamp is immune to poison, but I'm still going to rock the Draugr Fang - poison works on fulings.
Maybe I'm crazy, but what I get from all this data is it looks like swords, since other than the silver sword are all slashing damage, and slashing damage is #2 on the power ranking where all the higher end blunt weapons have a reduced amount of blunt damage due to splitting damage types, the best over-all weapon would be a sword. But I'm prone to illogical logic at times... Oh, and as an FYI about Moder, I've tested both the fire arrows and poison arrows and because the poison arrows do more piercing damage and she's not resistant to poison the poison arrows seem to do more overall damage to her than fire arrows even though she's weak to fire. I guess her weakness to fire isn't strong enough to make up for the low pierce damage of the fire arrows.
Very useful video, but I wouldn't put inconsequential enemies in your spreadsheet power rating as though they are equally weighted (i.e. neck's sprit resist doesn't matter). And i think you need to weigh in the weapon's overall dps as another factor (e.g. a lower power rating weapon might be more acceptable if its dps is very high).
That's why I use only axes in early and switch to Frostner after elder.... but a regular player won't get Frostner after elder
Nice job!
I only use Ooze bombs to disperse fulings. But with the fuling tactics update, I don't know if it will still work! :)
Also, at game start, I usually skip the stone axe until I get flint. Meanwhile I farm my wood with the club on beech saplings, it levels up my Club stats!
Main weapons: Porcupine, Black Metal Knife
Secondary weapons: Draugr Fang, Iron Sledge (use it only when surrounded by a large group of enemies)
Will definitely consider upgrading my Frostner after watching this video!
Spears imo is one of the safest weapons in the game, you can throw it at enemies without problem and do a lot of damage, and just go and pick it up walking in circles around the enemies in the meantime without getting hit.
You can also hit normally and just do a dodgeroll left or right to avoid any hit in the game, the weapon have fast attacks so the chances of getting hit is low. Edit: you won’t be stuck in any attack animations like most other weapons, so you might not take those free hits from enemies like you do from slower weapons
Spear has a pretty abysmal range as well as not being the only melee weapon that doesnt have a hitbox capable of striking multiple enemies. It definitely has its uses but its for sure an early game weapons when you compare it to the better options for lategame.
@@joshg5352 thats not true can hit more than one enemy with the spear melee attack when they are in front. Plus using the Spear with a shield is great for blocking quickly right after you land a hit then need to parry, very underrated playstyle imo
I did one game withoout using bows, which forced me to use spears a lot, and I absolutely loved it. Great challenge, great fun.
I think the special attacks and unique AOE and or knockback of certain weapons can reallly make them shine. It all depends on playstyle too. AOE of the iron sledge is amazing, also, the crystal battleaxe is great if you do the special push attack on a group it staggers them all and you can wind up and slash them all.
Am I the only one who runs around with a sword, shield, bow, the abysal harpoon, porcupine and a knife on my hot bar?
Isnt the abysal razor a knife already ?
Why abyssal razor and knife? The razor is a knife..
I personally run with blunt weapon, shield, axe, bow and harpoon
@@bale9320 oops! I changed itXD
@@vadimblin yah I meant harpoon not razor.
Haha. I'm curious though, what do you use the harpoon for ?
Best: Blunt. Most creatures are vulnerable, least creatures are resistant or immune.
Worst: Spirit. It comes far too late to be useful at all. By the time you can get it, you can obliterate creatures vulnerable to it without it.
Frostner is my go to for... almost everything.
I’m usually the front line if I’m in a group, tanking everything. I think it’s one of the strongest in the game, honestly. It’s crowd control is insane for most of the enemies you fight, slowing speed and attack. Even solo, just swing, take a few steps back, swing again. It makes you, almost, invulnerable
Nice work with that spreadsheet! But it could be better, counting resistances and immunities as the same power and counting weaknesses the same as neutral damage doesn't seem fair, also that power of the weapons shouldn't just be added but added with the proportion of the damage i.e. with knives it's 505 slashing and 50% piecing so it should be 19*0,5+15*0,5=17. I might redo that spreadsheet myself and see what comes out (probably still blunt).
Ya I suggested something really similar. TO add power values up as decimals to account for resistances being better than full immunities and to add the total values up at the end depending of how much damage the weapon actually does. If you did this poison would probably come out as better than spirit and stag breaker wouldn't look like it's better than sledge.
The way you calculated these types is ignoring how effective each type of damage is though. To get a true sense of "overall power", it may have been best to have effective damage count as 1.5 or 2 counts and resistant damage count the same depending on how resistant they are (1 for .5 damage, 1.5 for .25 damage, 2 for 0 damage). Aside from that, this was a great concept and a very well made vid. Good work!
I think he did it this way just to count the number of mobs vs who it s ok to use this type of weapon, like saying it s ok to use mace vs 31 type of monsters
I don't think damage numbers by themselves tell the full story here. For example, the atgeir is really good at dealing with groups of fulings in the late game because it has such a wide area of effect despite having a low score by your metrics. There's also stamina consumption to consider.
It's a good chart for general or exploration use, but you'll still want to have specialized weapons for the enemies you are fighting.
Maces are very good, but swords are faster and good as well. The attack speed and stam use figure into the play style. Thanks for the breakdown of this topic.
I've been leveling clubs and axes. Clubs, because they are easy to build and still effective. Axes, because I have them on hand while I'm chopping wood.
I think the damage types are somewhat balanced by the actual gameplay. Poison is nice against drakes. Frostner can be completely clutch with the freeze slow it applies which really helps survival against being swarmed.
Would you consider following the same method but segregate mobs/weapon power for each biome. i.e. strongest weapon type for mountains, plains, etc.
Remember when people wanted to play what was the most fun for them personally? Some good ole days, those.
It´s an interesting video, but in my own experience, the usability of each weapon changes with the biomes and overall game progression. For example even If a mob is immune to Spirit damage and even Frost damage and you are wielding Frostner - you are still capable of dealing with most of the early and midgame mobs quite well. So what Im basically trying to say is that If the mobs scaled somehow with the player´s progression in terms of their HP and DMG, then this guide would be much more accurate. Either way, It is a decent video that summarizes some facts that others might not be bothered to look up :D
I remember grabbing my notebook and doing a similar breakdown for mobs not long after me and some friends started playing the game back in March. A friend of mine pointed out that while the mace is good for a lot of things, the knock back on them is a mixed bag, it's bad when you have one enemy that you want to deal damage to and it's good when you have more enemies and you're trying to control the fight. With that said Frostner is one of his favorites, and mine, for clearing out goblin camps, the slow effect from frost damage can be better than having a porcupine.
The one downside to maces is in certain situations is the knockback. It can make doing the three hit combo a pain. Otherwise, I like maces.
yeah me too
on the other hand using the special attack on that one greydwarf that won't stop interrupting your building session just to send it flying to the nine realms is the greatest joy in this game
This is great! I suggest including a multiplier for each enemy type once you add/subtract them up. For example, Bonemass is a boss and resistant to poison, so it can have a 1.2 (arbitrary) multiplier. Skeletons are standard mobs so they're just 1.0 (or 0.8, you decide), etc. etc.
good stuff, except you are missing enough data points for this to actually be meaningfull. You touch on it with stagbreaker. You needed to add in the datapoint of damage per swing, and damage per second. Do this and redo the math and you will start to get useful data. Then you need to do this per age(flint/bronze/etc) and correlate it with the monsters there. And then talk about the game mechanics of weapons(speed being one of them)
Takes no consideration to attack range, attack speed or AOE of said weapons.
i dont do math, i go for atgeir
*Me looking at my stats to see Clubs and Knives are still at 0*
👁👄👁
I look forward to your Iron Cage support guide. I still do not understand how it can do what it is doing. 18x18 square stone platform on top of a tree.
Great video and content, as always!
I'm just missing the correlation to the Biomes... it would be great to group the mobs into areas so we could select the best weapons assortion accordingly....
Could you please share this spreadsheet? Thanks!
pretty good, your right if you look at it alround. got the sheet available? i want to work the numbers, see what happens if you take out the bosses and the meadows prey you one-shot.
I've pretty much been an axe player. I think though I should try clubs next play through.
Some valid criticism in the commentary about the applicability of the "power" numbers. But, its a useful generalization. The left hand side of the chart is VERY valuable. One can plot/plan ones weapons choice per biome, and plan to build the relevant skill. Thank you for listing in the "enemies" in biome order!!!
As you say, you're planning a few more vids with the numbers. May I suggest a biome specific strategy that builds towards and overall "best balance" weapon skill strategy.
May I also suggest a chart of all the weapons grouped by "tech" level (wood, flint, bronze, ...) and showing their damage split at maxed skill. This would complement the LHS of the chart from this effort.
Good work, as ever.
One more fun thing. I play with about 4 - 8 fps, which is "hard mode" caused by ancient computer. It is almost impossible for me to "stun" an enemy. For skeletons (especially in burial grounds) I first attack with a torch, then go to town with blunt (mace preferably). They're burning and easier to see and providing me with a light source. Similar tactic for Trolls. First shot, fire, then normal as I cart them, then another fire when the first has gone out, etc.. But first, get them into open space for the carting. Fire arrows are excellent for carting them into carting space :)
Your graph shows me why this works.
why do you use effectiveness minus resistance? it does not make sense. like it has minus the resistance twice. also the nunber should not just added them up, it should be divided by the number of types of damages.
For example, for knife the total damage is 50% of slash and 50% of perice. So for a regular knife that is not made of silver should be ended up with 31*50% + 25* 50% = 28. For stag breaker, the level 4 fully upgraded one has 38 blunt and 5 perice the weapon effectiveness number should be 38/(38+5) * 31 + 5/(38+5) * 25 = 30.30. Porcupines in this case should be worse as it has more "less effecitve" perice damage, for fully upgraded one: Blunt 50, Pierce 63 => 50/(50+63) * 31 + 63/(50+63) * 25 = 27.65.
Note : Only when this number times the weapon DPS will give you the final performance rating of a weapon.
need another spreadsheet of this with the mistlands update
started new playthru for h&h and decided to use axes and battle axes and its kinda fun. at least mpre fun than just everyone and their mother using blunt and only blunt for everything.
I commend you. I put 40 hours into a new world before realizing I didn't have another 300 hours per update to play how I like to. Very excited to start over with full release though. Enjoy.
Wanted to suggest doing some testing on raids mechanics. I haven't really seen anyone go in depth about it and all we really know are the basics like they're triggered after staying in your base for x amount of time and that beating each boss unlocks harder raids
and killing 1 mob, ends the raid spawning :) I don't think there's much more to know :)
First playthrough before H&H, I started out with Axe because I was lazy and didn;t want to swap between axe for trees & attacking. Had 20+ deaths in the swamp first play-through. This time I did a bit of research and what do you know - mace for swamp - so this playthrough switched to mace at beginning of swamp - much easier this time. Good to know I should just keep using it. Thanks dude.
I think it would be very interesting and helpful to see the average resistance of each damage type
resistant usually means 50% less dmg from a source. very resistant is 75%
fml....I just crafted the black metal Atgeir yesterday :D Great video btw!
I just made one as well, solely for harvesting barley xD
You should, its a great weapon. All these online videos breaking down weapons like this mislead players. I've been playing the new update with the world modifiers, setting difficulty to max. Atgeirs are great, just for the secondary stagger. These lists try to use overall enemy counts to rate weapons, when the first 10-15 enemies on that list shouldn't even be included in the rating. I don't care if a weapon is good against a Neck, Deer, or a Boar, and bosses are special events you plan for. Overall, you want weapons that are fast (spears) and that can stagger, and are just plain strong. Bows are the best when your difficulty is maxed, especially since you can have different dmg types crafted, fire arrows, frost arrows, etc.
Have "always" gone for Club in early game, but had no reason for it. Now I have! Thank you! Can this data be used with DPS data, to make a timeline of when to upgrade to next weapon? Then we can make a "path" of how to most efficiently play Valheim. That would have value to me, because RL won't let me waist time on the computer, so when I play Valheim, I try to be on the point.
I personally carry a Mace/Club as my main weapon and I'll just use my Axe as a backup since I tend to be carrying it anyway
thanks for the info, love the content. keep up the great work, we all apprisiate it
Yes I agree/knew (for the most part) what the results would be. It's a great analysis but leaves out real experience, like knockback/chase down, stamina consumption, stagger damage, etc. The devs keep messing with weapon use stamina so it might not be exactly up to date but it was still the knife and sword (in combination with a parry) that did the most damage and conservation of stamina in a prolonged battle. Club blunt is excellent but overall it's only OP in short battles that don't extend past resting buff and stamina use/regen; and the knockback absolutely suck you-know-what. Now many players like that knockback as it yeets the enemy away but it doesn't accomplish anything positive for an experienced player.
What I would like to see is the opposite, Vikings are VERY susceptible to spirit and poison damage. Armor level or shields should have very little effect against anything poisonous or especially the fuling shaman fireballs. I want to fear them again instead of merely patiently blocking them before finishing them off. I think they nerfed everything in the Plains now except maybe the growths, probably in anticipation of fitting in the biome level-wise; definitely went the wrong way for my fun-factor in replay-ability anyway (more grindy grind grind just to level up 5 points in health or stamina); I had to mod it to get that fun back and now I've gone so far the other way (very high energy and dangerous enemies) I'm not really playing the same game anymore; but, I'm having an absolute blast!
Spirit damage is good against 15 things that actually make the game hard. Frostner will just one shot each weak mod with blunt. Great video.
frostner give chills for enemy and this a solid tactical advantage
I would argue that poison shouldn't be devalued so much. Sure, it's trash early game, but there aren't currently any early game poison weapons. The late game mobs are all normal to poison damage. Saying avoid it all together completely negates the added benefit from a weapon such as Draugr Fang which stacks poison on top of whatever damage your arrow is throwing out.
yep, maces do an extra dmg to skeletons, blobs, stone golems, and pretty well everything that you want extra dmg for. Even loxes, which resist slash and blunt, the mace is still good because the porcupine does half blunt and half pierce dmg. At virtually every level, maces do extra dmg to the thing you are most scared of.
maces are great for early and mid-game, but in plains blackmetal sword does the job, although the porcupine is indeed great as well.
can you make that spreadsheet sharable by chance? Great work as always
I like spears a lot, I always use a blunt and a spear for main weapons
Nice details to consider there!
Saying to avoid poison weapons doesn't really make sense. Poison dmg only shows up on the bow+arrows, or on the poison bomb. Its not really a weapon type, there is only 1 weapon that has it, and its the best bow in the game atm. Poison arrows are really good vs drakes. And the bombs are very good vs packs fulings or wolves. Saying not to use poison is a little misleading. Its only cause there is so much undead in the game it ended up with a -9 on your chart. But in the snow and plains, poison is great. There are not really poison weapons per se. Only poison ammo which is situational depending on the zone you're in. Poison is good.
Poison is SITUATIONALLY good, even by your own admission. Blunt, however, is almost never bad. This video was not about situational uses, it was about the every day rollin thru the woods weapon you will pack.
@@getoffmedamnit You missed my first point: There is no poison class for weapons. There is only a bow, thats also the best bow in the game. There is no choice between poison or blunt weapon types. Thus, saying to avoid poison doesn't make sense.
My second point was about the scoring system created to rank weapons. Giving a weapon a minus for having poison makes no sense. Just because there are alot of undead mobs that are immune to poison, doesnt make the dragur fang bow a bad weapon.
You took the word "situational" that I used, and are trying to use it against me somehow? You shoulda read what I actually wrote more closely. Sounds like the only word you read in my post was the word "situational" and want to use it as a gotcha? smh
I just can't get over the crowd control of the ategir. Can clear hordes of fulings so easily.
Don't underestimate the atgier.
So when you say poison weapons I’m tryna think isn’t it just Draugr fang? and/or poison arrows and are you suggesting that the Huntsman bow is better than Draugr fang? I’m kind of confused because bows are kind of in their own category altogether at least when it comes to stamina usage/ dps right? And you don’t really talk about bows
There's also the ooze bomb. I do think poison needs a buff because it's fun to use those bombs on fulings.
I knew maces were the strongest from the get go. That said, even if a creature resists the frost damage of frostner, they generally don't resist the frost effect. That slow down on enemies is huge and what makes frostner a great utility even if it isn't the best in damage. I think the only foe completely immune to the slow effect are the stone golems, (and bosses) and frankly you shouldn't be fighting them if you are using a frostner, unless you absolutely need to. Just run.
Agreed, plus the knock back is huge.
@@robnauticus Yep, exactly what I dislike! I want a close in melee not a ef-off fight. I mean it's fun but not effective going solo in the long run with such limited stamina.
I think the game lacks one single thing, despite the sometimes empty world that needs to be filled up with NPCs and new Locations, it lacks Classes. There should be more items/weapons/armors and ways to get them so that players are encouraged to pick a class and play with it. Currently only Troll armor helps with being an archer and then every other armor is the same. The devs should add more items to diversify playthroughs and allow players to choose classes. Maybe add armor that buffs damage with Axes, or a staff that allows players to summon minions to fight for them along with armor that buffs the minions. I fell like the foundation for something like this is already in the game and the devs need to implement it, because every time I play with friends we all just craft Maces and wear the same armors bc it is the only viable option. :(
I agree and disagree with you on parts.
I disagree with adding in classes. I feel that picking a playstyle can achieve the same, without the limitations class-systems usually bring.
But i agree that it would be nice to have more specialized items which would allow people to go for more specialzed playstyles and pick specialized gear for that playstyle.
There are currently fairly few items that could be considered sidegrades. Most armors and weapons are just straight upgrades over the same itemtype of the previous tier with close to no special characteristics.
@@Eartshock yeah exactly, I didn't mean that they should add a literal class system but the ability to have items that allow multiple playstyles.
I've been having good luck with the atgier (polearm), mostly due to the special spin attack and the knockback it creates.
thank you for this video, I have noticed that my level 4 Crystal Axe can kill a Fenring in 4-5 hits but a Stone Golemn seems that shrug it off. While a level 4 Iron Mace is devastating to a Stone Golemn
the funny thing is that frostner does a combination of blunt, frost, and spirit dmg, and porcupine does a combination of blunt and pierce. The iron mace is the most powerful mace that is also 100% blunt dmg. This makes it the best weapon against stone golems specifically by a large margin as they are immune to cold and spirit and very resistant to slash and pierce.
ergo, it is well worth the effort to take an iron mace all the way to quality 4 to farm the swamps, kill bonemass faster, and fight stonegolems.
@@GentlemanOrc I've never tried a mace on a golem. Are they better than using the iron pick?
@@danielshagman hard to say. the Pickaxe will do more extra bonus dmg, but is also slower and has no 3 hit combo. The mace will just do it's regular dmg, but doesn't slow you down as much. It's my preferred choice since I almost always make a Q4 iron mace for the bonemass fight anyway
@@GentlemanOrc Great, thanks for your reply. I tend to not bother with maces, but will give it a go for the sake of golems :)
I havea suspicion poison resistance may continue into Mistlands. Based mostly on the idea current placeholder objects in the zone have a lot of spider webs, with spiders doing and resistant to poison damage. May be totally wrong and the zone might be completely different, but most mobs seem balanced around what makes sense rather than balanced gameplay.
I like spears. I usually have 2 with me, 1 to throw ahead of time at an approaching enemy and then the 2nd to melee. I also find I can usually hit an enemy twice with a spear before blocking with tower shield, I can only hit once with axe or mace (so 1 to throw and 2 to hit = 3 hits to the 1 hit of a mace). Not sure how all your math changes when you consider damage over time and multiple weapon use (which I guess is just the spear)...
I didn't realise knives were such a viable weapon, especially after the update, with the changes they made, I may have to revisit a knives & bow stealth playthrough