I saw this version of Mulan years ago and I immediately loved how joyful and funny and casually queer it was. It really does deserve more recognition in the west Apparently I should check out The Love Eterne too
the love eterne is based on the story of the butterfly lovers, it's basically Chinese Romeo and Juliet. If you have the time, you should listen to the butterfly lovers concerto, it's really great piece of classical chinese music.
Disney's Mulan comes off more as autism coded than queer coded to me because a lot of her struggles comes from a difficulty distinguishing social behaviors from a casual and professional environment. At the matchmaker's, she started off acting as casually as she did when she greeted her parents, and in the army she was imitating Yao when Shang was chastising her, but overlooked the fact that he was already in a casual environment. As an autistic person, I've been through similar struggles.
disney animated mulan meant a lot to me as a kid, but I do see where you’re coming from, and I loved this video. I’m so excited to watch all of these movies now! thank you and hope you’re healing well from your surgery
I think it would be a really interesting essay to explore Love Eterne also in the context of early Western writings about the strength of male platonic love over romantic love, merged with a discussion of queerplantonic love. Thank you for introducing me to a lovely story!
12:16 aww paired with your driving sentiment, this clip of them raising a toast to her altogether made me tear up 😭❤️ i’ve never seen or even heard of this movie until now, but I’ll check it out soon for sure! thank you for introducing this film to others, and your thoughts on it were very impactful as well ^^
2:58 I had to pause here to say, I saw this clip on your preview and I was like, that ain't Disney, that's authentic! Great find! The age doesn't surprise me because Monkey Magic is also timeless storytelling. Gosh, it looks like a beautiful movie and this is just a YT reclipping. The 1990s version of Mulan really spoke to my own struggles growing up. My dad gave me a poster of Mushu:"It's all in the attitude!" I've never been afraid of being an independent person and within the constraints of my society, I am. I don't need to conform to gender-norms, I just need to be my authentic self.
20:58 LMAO Thank you for putting that up on the screen. I needed a laugh. What they're saying in the subtext is important, of course. It's just the juxtaposition of the world as it is rn.
While I do love the analysis of queerness in these two films, I did balk a bit at the suggestion that the gender play in the films are “inherited” from Shakespearean theatre. I get that there is a comparison to be made, especially with how some of this gender play from both traditions may partly come from the banning of female actors. Still, gender play in Chinese operas deserve their own analysis without attributing them to western traditions. Otherwise, excellent video. One movie that also deals with Chinese operatic and queerness is Farewell My Concubine, but I’m not sure I would fully recommend it because it’s very heavy on the queer suffering and it ultimately ends in tragedy.
Ah I'll admit inherit was definitely a poor word choice! I absolutely agree with you that it's just a common attribute and not "inherited" from Shakespeare-not sure why that's the word I chose in the moment. Will be more careful/deliberate with my word choice in the future!
There are a few other Chinese opera (films) that deal with gender that I really love! There's The Tale of the White Snake, which has been adapted onto the screen several times. The story basically follows Lady White Snake (a snake spirit) who falls in love with and marries a human. Their relationship is great, but it is scorned by a zealous Buddhist monk who sees their relationship as "unnatural" for religious reasons and therefore does everything in his power to stop their relationship. While the lovers don't get a happy ending, the opera is great and Lady White Snake's tombo sister, Lady Green Snake is kinda an example of a gender-nonconforming woman? Nonconformance with societal norms is a big theme. There's also the model works of the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, many of which explicitly dealt with feminist themes and were filmed as movies at some point or another. The Red Detachment of Women is the most famous (and probably the best) of the model works, and it is a ballet. There's also The Red Lantern, an opera. I especially like The Red Lantern because of it's exploration of the family. It's great and I think more people should read it. Unfortunately I don't think there's a version of the opera online with English subtitles, but you can find translations of the libretto online and follow along with the movie. Speaking of The Red Detachment of Women, I think it has had a really interesting afterlife in the West. It was depicted in Western works at least three times (the American opera Nixon in China; the French film Les Chinois à Paris; and a low-budget play I, Ching), with each depiction being at least a little satirical. The feminist themes of the ballet haven't really been explored in the West unfortunately, with one sorta exception. Nixon in China (I disagree with *so much* of the political messaging of the opera, but unfortunately it is so expertly crafted on all fronts that it is one of my favorite pieces of art ever) is probably the only Western work that acknowledges the feminism of the ballet. The entire opera is sublty broken up into many 3s (the characters, for example, are mirrors of each other; the Americans with Nixon, Kissinger, and Pat, and the Chinese with Mao, Zhou, and Jiang) and the second act focuses on Pat Nixon and Jiang Qing, the two First Ladies and kinda the place of women in each country's polity. The second scene of the second act is a recreation of The Red Detachment of Women, and when paired with the first scene of the act makes light of how the place of women had changed in Chinese society throughout the years. It's a great opera, I encourage anyone to watch it. (Preferably the original 1987 production which is ironically the only one that I think understands the history it is about.) Another work I think might interest you is David Henry Hwang's play, M. Butterfly. I hate the play, however, it does tackle gender and Chinese opera. The thing is, it does it in a way that is absolutely transphobic. Hwang apparently took the criticisms to heart and revised the play in 2017 to ameliorate some of the transphobia, but I don't know. I don't know of any trans people who have analyzed the revised 2017 edition and gave their thoughts on if it's better, but I'd love to hear about anyone who has. David Cronenberg made a film adaptation of the play in 1993, but that adaptation was based on the unrevised play. If you want to check it out, make sure it's the revised version!
I heard that there was a version of "The Legend of the White Snake" where the monk was actually a tortoise spirit in disguise, and was bitter at the fact that the snake took the cultivation pills before him.
Very sorry about this, let me see if I can fix that! It looks like auto captions are enabled -- are those not working, or are you looking for non-automatic captions or captions in another language? I unfortunately can't afford professional captions, but I have experience captioning and can do it myself if it'd help!
@nfearnley Done! From what I understand, sometimes UA-cam will decide not to make auto-captions available (even if they were generated) if the program has trouble understanding large portions of the video. I think since there are several movie clips playing in Mandarin, it got confused and blocked the captions. I've gone through and edited the captions that it did generate to correct any errors, properly label the sections spoken in Mandarin, and adjusted caption positions as needed so as not to block the burnt-in subtitles in the film footage. Let me know if there are any other issues, but it should be live now!
@@tristalksmoviesit's such a beautiful movie, I just smiled during every musical sequence xD I'm talking about lady general hua Mulan, but I'm definitely going to look for the other one too now :3 Thank you very much for the recommendations
I saw this version of Mulan years ago and I immediately loved how joyful and funny and casually queer it was. It really does deserve more recognition in the west
Apparently I should check out The Love Eterne too
the love eterne is based on the story of the butterfly lovers, it's basically Chinese Romeo and Juliet. If you have the time, you should listen to the butterfly lovers concerto, it's really great piece of classical chinese music.
Disney's Mulan comes off more as autism coded than queer coded to me because a lot of her struggles comes from a difficulty distinguishing social behaviors from a casual and professional environment. At the matchmaker's, she started off acting as casually as she did when she greeted her parents, and in the army she was imitating Yao when Shang was chastising her, but overlooked the fact that he was already in a casual environment. As an autistic person, I've been through similar struggles.
This is a super interesting reading that's never occurred to me -- thank you for bringing it to my attention!
disney animated mulan meant a lot to me as a kid, but I do see where you’re coming from, and I loved this video. I’m so excited to watch all of these movies now! thank you and hope you’re healing well from your surgery
Thank you that's very kind!
When u showed those clips of the Love Eterne where mc's crying, it made me genuinely feel a bit emotional 😭
Definately giving all these films a watch!
"The Love Eterne" is based on the Chinese folktale "The Butterfly Lovers."
I think it would be a really interesting essay to explore Love Eterne also in the context of early Western writings about the strength of male platonic love over romantic love, merged with a discussion of queerplantonic love. Thank you for introducing me to a lovely story!
That sounds super interesting! Would definitely read that essay.
Glad I could introduce the film to you!
12:16 aww paired with your driving sentiment, this clip of them raising a toast to her altogether made me tear up 😭❤️ i’ve never seen or even heard of this movie until now, but I’ll check it out soon for sure! thank you for introducing this film to others, and your thoughts on it were very impactful as well ^^
2:58 I had to pause here to say, I saw this clip on your preview and I was like, that ain't Disney, that's authentic! Great find! The age doesn't surprise me because Monkey Magic is also timeless storytelling. Gosh, it looks like a beautiful movie and this is just a YT reclipping.
The 1990s version of Mulan really spoke to my own struggles growing up. My dad gave me a poster of Mushu:"It's all in the attitude!" I've never been afraid of being an independent person and within the constraints of my society, I am. I don't need to conform to gender-norms, I just need to be my authentic self.
These films are beautiful! What am I doing with my life?
Thank you for showing these to me.
Glad I could share them! Means a lot to see all of your comments & observations :)
omgg new hidden youtube channel gem discovered
ah thank you that means a lot!
20:58 LMAO Thank you for putting that up on the screen. I needed a laugh.
What they're saying in the subtext is important, of course. It's just the juxtaposition of the world as it is rn.
fun video!!! def learned something new thank you for sharing!
While I do love the analysis of queerness in these two films, I did balk a bit at the suggestion that the gender play in the films are “inherited” from Shakespearean theatre. I get that there is a comparison to be made, especially with how some of this gender play from both traditions may partly come from the banning of female actors. Still, gender play in Chinese operas deserve their own analysis without attributing them to western traditions. Otherwise, excellent video.
One movie that also deals with Chinese operatic and queerness is Farewell My Concubine, but I’m not sure I would fully recommend it because it’s very heavy on the queer suffering and it ultimately ends in tragedy.
Ah I'll admit inherit was definitely a poor word choice! I absolutely agree with you that it's just a common attribute and not "inherited" from Shakespeare-not sure why that's the word I chose in the moment. Will be more careful/deliberate with my word choice in the future!
Farewell my concubine is SO good but it's also such a hard watch at times. But yes it's a beautiful movie.
There are a few other Chinese opera (films) that deal with gender that I really love! There's The Tale of the White Snake, which has been adapted onto the screen several times. The story basically follows Lady White Snake (a snake spirit) who falls in love with and marries a human. Their relationship is great, but it is scorned by a zealous Buddhist monk who sees their relationship as "unnatural" for religious reasons and therefore does everything in his power to stop their relationship. While the lovers don't get a happy ending, the opera is great and Lady White Snake's tombo sister, Lady Green Snake is kinda an example of a gender-nonconforming woman? Nonconformance with societal norms is a big theme.
There's also the model works of the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, many of which explicitly dealt with feminist themes and were filmed as movies at some point or another. The Red Detachment of Women is the most famous (and probably the best) of the model works, and it is a ballet. There's also The Red Lantern, an opera. I especially like The Red Lantern because of it's exploration of the family. It's great and I think more people should read it. Unfortunately I don't think there's a version of the opera online with English subtitles, but you can find translations of the libretto online and follow along with the movie.
Speaking of The Red Detachment of Women, I think it has had a really interesting afterlife in the West. It was depicted in Western works at least three times (the American opera Nixon in China; the French film Les Chinois à Paris; and a low-budget play I, Ching), with each depiction being at least a little satirical. The feminist themes of the ballet haven't really been explored in the West unfortunately, with one sorta exception. Nixon in China (I disagree with *so much* of the political messaging of the opera, but unfortunately it is so expertly crafted on all fronts that it is one of my favorite pieces of art ever) is probably the only Western work that acknowledges the feminism of the ballet. The entire opera is sublty broken up into many 3s (the characters, for example, are mirrors of each other; the Americans with Nixon, Kissinger, and Pat, and the Chinese with Mao, Zhou, and Jiang) and the second act focuses on Pat Nixon and Jiang Qing, the two First Ladies and kinda the place of women in each country's polity. The second scene of the second act is a recreation of The Red Detachment of Women, and when paired with the first scene of the act makes light of how the place of women had changed in Chinese society throughout the years. It's a great opera, I encourage anyone to watch it. (Preferably the original 1987 production which is ironically the only one that I think understands the history it is about.)
Another work I think might interest you is David Henry Hwang's play, M. Butterfly. I hate the play, however, it does tackle gender and Chinese opera. The thing is, it does it in a way that is absolutely transphobic. Hwang apparently took the criticisms to heart and revised the play in 2017 to ameliorate some of the transphobia, but I don't know. I don't know of any trans people who have analyzed the revised 2017 edition and gave their thoughts on if it's better, but I'd love to hear about anyone who has. David Cronenberg made a film adaptation of the play in 1993, but that adaptation was based on the unrevised play. If you want to check it out, make sure it's the revised version!
Wow, thank you for typing all of this out! I'll definitely have to check these out - really appreciate all the info and insight!
I heard that there was a version of "The Legend of the White Snake" where the monk was actually a tortoise spirit in disguise, and was bitter at the fact that the snake took the cultivation pills before him.
Never seen this! Looks interesting
I'd love to watch your video, but unfortunately I can't understand it without subtitles enabled.
Very sorry about this, let me see if I can fix that! It looks like auto captions are enabled -- are those not working, or are you looking for non-automatic captions or captions in another language? I unfortunately can't afford professional captions, but I have experience captioning and can do it myself if it'd help!
The captions are listed as "unavailable". I'd be fine with auto captions, but oddly none are available.
@@nfearnley Strange, I'll look into it more and see what I can do. I'll reply here again if I can get it fixed!
@tristalksmovies thanks for looking into it!
@nfearnley Done! From what I understand, sometimes UA-cam will decide not to make auto-captions available (even if they were generated) if the program has trouble understanding large portions of the video. I think since there are several movie clips playing in Mandarin, it got confused and blocked the captions.
I've gone through and edited the captions that it did generate to correct any errors, properly label the sections spoken in Mandarin, and adjusted caption positions as needed so as not to block the burnt-in subtitles in the film footage. Let me know if there are any other issues, but it should be live now!
Ahg, I can't find it on Google. I really want to watch it
I finally found it, about to watch it :3
Yay, enjoy!
@@tristalksmoviesit's such a beautiful movie, I just smiled during every musical sequence xD
I'm talking about lady general hua Mulan, but I'm definitely going to look for the other one too now :3
Thank you very much for the recommendations
So glad you liked it! If you enjoyed that one you'll love The Love Eterne - they're both great but the latter blew me away
@@tristalksmovies nice :3