I'm a university swimmer and one of my special interests is hydrodynamics (and other physics associated with swimming). Great educational video! :D I find your transfer of knowledge from swimming to surfing very smart. I agree with you on all points, but I do have to address the part where you ask the rhetorical question "Do you think you get more propulsion from a larger surface area, or a smaller one?". What may seem obvious at first is as you say "I know that you all know the answer is to have a larger surface area to hold the water and propell yourself forward". This principle would prove to be true in air, but the problem when you apply this thinking to hydrodynamics is the added resistance of the arm sticking deep into water (much denser than air). In swimming the relation between resistance/drag and power is 1:3, meaning that to achieve the same increased speed/performance as a 10% decrease in resistance you would have to have a 33% increase in power. Ex. Swimmer is swimming at a speed of 2m/s. To win the race the swimmer has to increase her speed by 0.2m/s (10%). She can either focus on her technique and reduce resistance/drag by 10%, or increase her power/effort by 33%. This is why deep strokes are only used by professional swimmers on shorter distances, where they are able to maintaining their increased power without fatiguing. Long distance swimmers are much better of with more shallow strokes (while still keeping a high elbow!). Wouldn't this apply to surfing as well, with shallow strokes for general paddling and deep strokes for those short sprints to catch waves? :) Best regards!
Many thanks for the comment and the kind words. I greatly enjoyed reading your comment as well. I've read similar swim studies with this question of a deeper stroke vs shallower and agree with you completely that the "deep catch" stroke, as coined by the engineers over at Johns Hopkins, should only be used for sprinting (or catching the wave), whereas the slightly shallower stroke, commonly name the "S" stroke, should be preferred for paddling out and around in the lineup. In the free training series, I go into further evidence as to why this is, at www.surfingpaddling.com (it's the third video I send - titled "Increasing Propulsion"). Great minds think alike!
I think it depends even further, in fact if a surfer is caught inside or is paddling in the foam the first "layers"of water are very turbolent and not very "catchy", instead are very "slippy". In my book paddling with shallow strokes in the foam is a one way ticket for the beach. Even if a deep stoke is theorically made for sprinting and short time applications i think that on a practical ground the depth of the stoke is proportional to the turbolence of the water and a deep stroke could be used even for longer periods of time (resistance) in order to reach the "more laminar" layers of water and be more effective. Do you think is correct? Claudio from Italy (and yes, we occasionally have waves during winter!)
Good question. Yes, when caught inside, there is very little we can do to grab hold of any water as it is mostly foam (air). The key here is to realize this and save energy. One thing that helps hold some ground is above water kicking - alternating swinging the the heels to the buttocks. This provides a little propulsion forward without needing to grab anything with the arms. It's a minor lurch forward, but effective when trying to stay on top of all the turbulence. Once the foam starts to settle, feeling around for resistance with the arm and hand provides the optimal strategy at starting to take strokes again. In other words, slow down the stroke so that you're feeling something to "hold", rather than swinging the arms and moving so quickly through the stroke. At times, you'll feel the turbulent water pushing against your arm which is the optimal time to apply force backward. It is truly "anchoring your hand" as I explain in the Surfing Paddling Academy Online course.
I was at Tavarua Fiji in the early 90s and Kelly with a bunch of other pros were there-the yr he won his first world title. We were all out at Cloud Break about 6’ - I paddled for wave and suddenly Kelly appears beside me like a flash and was on this wave. It was like he was flying thru water, unbelievable paddling ability. Looking at him in video doesn’t reveal what’s really going on, he truly is the master surfer..
Hey Rob....I know this is an 8yr old video. But after two years I started to get serious about surfing. I cannot believe I still have my rotator cuffs. My paddling was always like ice skating, just scratching, not going anywhere. I'm athletic in other sports and thought I could just use my power to overcome my lack of surf skill. Your paddle videos have been a serious light bulb moment.
+Jeff K (CanH8r) Great to hear from a fellow swimmer and surfer. Apologies that I shared what we've known for years, but we're making the lineup a happier place with less frustration! See you in the water!
Thank you so much for the feedback. Check out the newer vids on how to catch waves easily. My Level 2 course goes into more detail but these vids I’m referring to have helped a bunch of surfers so far.
Thank you so much for posting this. I was missing the high elbow technique and started applying it after I watched the video. Wow! Huge difference! Paddling power increased, can surf longer sessions and catch more waves. Having tons of fun thanks to the tips! Highly recommended.
Thanks on the insight,I been surfing for 40 year's and Keep learning new stuff every day,there is science to Kelly's approach to paddling.Paddling is so underrated in the importance of getting good.
Absolutely underrated. On average, we paddle approximately 85% of the active time in the water. For reference, if we surfed for 2 hours, we do about 1.5 hours of paddling, 25 minutes sitting around, and 5 minutes of actually riding waves. Thanks for the comment.
+Andrew Stevens Really great to hear. Thank you for the feedback. There's some free training at surfingpaddling.com as well and check out some other videos I have on youtube that might help you out as well. Cheers
Dope video. Helpful. Especially the rotation part. I'm a beginner and my paddling felt super inconsistent. Sometimes I felt like I was gliding effortlessly. While on others every stroke felt super fatiguing.
Kelly slater paddling is more of a power stroke designed for paddling fast over a moderate distance. It uses up quite a bit of energy. Whereas 3:46, is more of a efficiency paddle, designed for slower but longer distances. The surfer at 3:46 is quite lanky and he's using this stroke as it's a efficiency stroke, you can tell by how many strokes per minute each surfer has. Both surfers have decent technique overall. Note, if you use a power stroke too much, your muscles can tire quickly depending on fitness level and you may lose paddling ability when you need it most - trying to catch a wave. I use moderate and high speed paddles in slim amounts and efficiency paddle for longer distances depending on lineup to ensure i have enough strength to paddle for a wave. I'm not unfit but i know my paddling limits and it's easy to get tired paddling by over using one technique over another. I typically use about 2 variations of each of the two strokes shown and vary my shoulder movement accordingly so I can maintain strong paddling the whole session.
@@RobCaseXSWIM Oh, it has. Like night and day difference. I'm catching loads of waves now. My last day in Indo, I did an hour session at Canggu and caught 29 waves. Long rides too. That was a personal record. Thanks again.
This taught me a ton about paddling. Your board matters a lot too.. if you are a stronger swimming you could still use a surfboard with less volume, however it takes more effort to keep a good paddle when you don't glide on the water as well and you should always get the board matched to the waves/skill you are at and the amount of volume necessary to get good float. I think that watching how his legs move to the swaying of his body taught me a lot about keeping a straight line, it gets harder in chop to do the same but counter-balancing with my foot is something I didn't really understand. I also used to think that only big guys with michael phelps type arms and bodies could paddle fast, boy was I wrong. There are plenty of little guys out there with really good float that glide through the water with good technique and form and proper volume to their boards. I thought that having small/average sized hands made a difference but really it doesn't when it is all about the technique and your physique/stamina to be able to keep up the form/plank position and straight line.
Great comments. Really appreciate the thoughtfulness in the response. Agreed on many of the points you outlined. Technique is key, and fitness and physical stature cover up many deficiencies in technique. Can you imagine if the fit surfers with Owen Wright arms and legs had good technique?!? Holy smokes they would move!
Great video Rob. I transitioned from bodyboarding to longboarding in my 30's, so these videos help as I consider my paddling as the worst aspect of my surfing. Also I work at a university and make instructional videos and your videos are very impressive.
Wow. Thank you so much for the feedback. Super glad it's helping. Longboarding has a slightly different technique than shortboard paddling so take a look through my video course or come to one of my Workshops to understand more. I am very grateful for your kind words and inspired to do more. Thank you!
Good question. The idea is that you are not completely flat while you paddle. There are several problems with paddling flat impacting both drag and propulsion. In short, use you lower rib cage to connect to the surfboard. When your body rolls slightly to one side (keeping your head still and looking forward), the surfboard connected at your rib cage should roll with the body. If there is no connection, there is lack of lateral balance and more of that balance is conducted by the arms, hence taking away potential power and propulsion (because they are being used to balance - the arms can’t do both at once). Watch a good swimmer. They swim on their sides, not flat. Shortboard paddling has less roll than a swimmer, and a longboarder has less roll than a short boarder. Check out a few of the paddling mythbusting videos I have to learn more about this technique.
The slight roll means the rail dips to the side you add your arm in - it helps the opposite arm recover forward and the arm entering go deeper without you having to reach.
So nice of you. Thank you. If you liked this, check out my online program or one of my Workshops, Surf Trips, or Mastery Weekend. SurfingPaddling.com. Cheers!
Question regarding the part about keeping your elbow high to use a vertical stroke; Is this necessary if your stroke is pointed inwards and going towards your belly? Almost like using your hands to "sweep" underneath your board
Good question. There are numerous studies showing that a stroke as you describe it results in significantly reduced propulsive force in the correct direction. So first thing you’d want to do is modify the stroke so that you aren’t sweeping inward on purpose. Your brain may still take that path but will be much less pronounced if you don’t try and make that hand path happen.
Paddled out today and I noticed a huge difference. I was at the reef way faster and I had more power left in my arms when I got there from using the larger muscle groups. Thanks!
Dude! That is so great to hear John! Feel free to pass on what you learned to your friends and I'd be stoked to work with you in person at some point in the future. Cheers!!
Absolutely! Great thought. In other videos and especially in the online Surfing Paddling Academy course, we dive into that topic and how it adds to efficiency of motion. The trick is that there are many different opposing motions in the stroke - doing one thing may add more drag elsewhere - and the key is knowing which has an overall positive outcome. If you can't find those other videos talking about that, let me know and I'll share some more thoughts.
Thank you so much for the comment. Please do send it and share. I also have a free series at surfingpaddling.com. Let me know if you have any questions. Cheers.
thanks a lot Rob for these great videos . but could you explain a little better the slight roll technique , since is not very clear to me . what should i do to perform this slight roll in a few words ? thanks a lot again and all the best
Luis Mambrini Great question. The slight roll does a couple of important things to help us reduce drag and prevent shoulder injuries. But instead of getting into all of that, to answer your question, the roll is initiated from your hips. Try rolling your hips as you paddle back out. Imagine a stiff metal rod that extends from above your head to below your feet. Rotate around that metal rod, keeping your head still as your body rolls from right to left around that rod as you take your next stroke. It is important to only do this when you are paddling out or around in the lineup. You don't want to practice this when you are catching a wave because the roll is initiated from the shoulders when you are catching a wave (or sprinting). Hope this helps Luis. Let me know if you'd like me to explain it another way. Cheers.
I think a lot of these techniques can be learned simply by doing some freestyle strokes in the pool. High elbow catch and rotational elements are the same. I also think that the palm facing backwards throughout the stroke is also important. You'll notice how he 'throws' water backwards on the exit of the paddle stroke. That surely shows how the whole stroke is put towards propulsion (instead of early exit from the water.)
Colby Paradiso Absolutely agree. Freestyle is a great way to learn the basics of the paddle stroke, and head up freestyle mimics it even better. However, swim studies have shown that the "thowing water" at the end of the stroke is not effective for propulsion (see Ernie Maglischo's "Fast Swimming" textbook, and videos by Gary Hall, Sr. - the Race Club). In fact, it uses more energy with not enough "return on investment". When you try the head up free stroke, you'll notice this as well that it is actually physically difficult to do that. The reasoning behind the studies are fairly simple. You end up pushing water up, not backward, when you give that little push up. Propulsion is created by pushing backward (as you stated). Therefore, turning the hand pinky up and slipping it out of the water with as little resistance or drag as possible is the best technique. Great comment!
I see what you mean. Often in form-teaching, I've seen that you teach the emphasized version and the form will fall into place. I was told to 'flip' water to counter my early exit. My stroke landed somewhere in-between. So my teacher was smarter than me at the time XD. But I agree, the flick of water would be a waste.
Very well explained. Thanks for the tips. I was waiting for the underwater visual of a low elbow entry just as a comparison to the right way to do it....
I noticed something that isn't explained in the video, that i wasn't doing before and seems important: when viewed from the front, the forearm is not pointed straight down outside the board, but rather is angled under the board. I think I understand why this helps: this aligns the force of the stroke with the center of mass of the surfer and direction of travel, whereas paddling off to the side separates these vectors and introduces rotation (viewed from above) about the surfer's center of mass. Maybe this observation is super basic -- I'm not a very experienced surfer -- but no one had explained it to me before and I'm definitely bad at paddling. Do you have another video that explains this other part of the technique?
Great observation and thought process. There’s a bit more detail to that, more than a comment box will allow. My online course goes into the detail of the underwater armstroke and the path the arm takes that is optimal. I think I have a few other videos online that may show various techniques so I advise looking through my vids. Sorry I couldn’t explain in greater detail.
Generally, as the waterline increases and width increases, there is less roll but the slight roll from rail to rail is still present. Think of it this way - if there was no board at all (i.e., swimming) the person will roll a lot - from one side of the body to another. As you add something underneath said person (like a low volume shortboard) the roll becomes less severe but still needs to happen for several reasons to reduce drag and increase potential propulsion. Keep adding length and volume and that person gets more and more removed from the drag equation which therefore reduces the need to roll as much. Hope that answered your question
With the width of the log and some with narrower shoulders, I've seen some paddle with their arms more horizontal and not get depth if that makes sense. So less propulsion and more stress on their shoulders. @@RobCaseXSWIM
Makes total sense. I refer a lot of surfers to longer, narrower boards because of that fact, and the extra stress on the shoulders from a wider stroke.
to make high elbow entry, we need some internal rotation in shoulder joint. Anatomically, abduction + internal rotation is a position that cause impingement. So, impingement syndrome is common shoulder problem in surfers (which also can lead to rotator cuff tear). How can we avoid impingement without sacrificing effective paddle?
Great question! Yes, there is internal rotation when entering with a high elbow at first. There are several keys to not having that aggravate into an injury: 1. Not over-reaching 2. Not pushing down 3. Not pushing too hard too soon. That last one is probably the most critical in making sure the arm goes all the way to the propulsive phase of the stroke, and then since there is still a threat to the rotator cuff, making sure pressure on the hand and arm is light at first, building through the stroke. I'm not a doctor, or PT, but based on anecdotal evidence with the many clients I see and the corrections we make, this is the best hypothesis I have.
so here im asking to surf like kelly.!! hahha i had my very first session of surfing & im in love with it ! bt i barely can swimming to be paddle out should i learn the dip stroke or not to dip . ur vid is awesome thx so much.
Hi Gabriel, thanks for sharing the stoke. Swimming will certainly help with paddling, and with being more comfortable in the ocean in general. I've not heard of the "dip stroke", but I definitely think seeing a swim coach for some simple tips is recommended. Hope you grab some waves and continue to share the stoke. Cheers.
Hi Rafael, good question. If you were to view your stroke from the front, you should see a slight roll from rail to rail are you progress from one stroke to the next. Nice and smooth. This way, you go in a straight line. If you see the nose of the board moving right and left, then if you viewed your path from a bird's eye, you'd see a path that doesn't go very straight - rather squiggly. Let me know if you'd like me to explain it differently. Be glad to do so. Cheers...
Fantastic tutorial, nice way to scaffold your pedagogy. I like the barrel role concept especially, easy to remember and visualise kinesthetically while in the water. I'd love to know more about your kicking technique on the board, how do you incorporate that with rule 3 and the spring coil roll? Seems like it is a more whole of body technique?
+Tumbleweed Wow, thank you for the kind words. I greatly appreciate the feedback. Great question on kicking. I reserve the discussion on kicking until the very last module of the online class because it is a technique that is not fundamental, but rather one that can be used to enhance your stroke even further. Call it an "add-on". Studies have shown that kicking does increase velocity, but we are still working on determining whether it is because there is a reduction in drag or an actual increase in propulsive force. Regardless, we know it helps, but we need to use it sparingly because it reduces overall energy. In the class I explain in more detail, but the summary version is to not kick when paddling out and paddling around casually. Keep your feet up slightly and together to reduce drag. When we're sprinting or catching a wave, kick with fast quick kicks, toes pointed, feeling the water on the downstroke and the upstroke. The reason I reserve kicking until the end of the class is because a lot of people have a hard time doing both kicking and rotation. It's like patting your head while rubbing your stomach for a lot of people. The rotation is more fundamental and needs to be addressed first. So focus on the slight roll from rail to rail, initiated by your hips (like you said, more of a whole body rotation) when you're paddling casually. The slight roll comes from your shoulders when sprinting. See more description in a reply to a comment below (Chris Palmer). And for an even deeper explanation, take the training series at www.surfingpaddling.com. I'll take that beer any time my friend. Sounds like a plan. But first, go out and use these techniques and let me know how it goes. Cheers.
You mention in the video that hip initiated rolling and shoulder initiated rolling can both be beneficial but in different circumstances... Can you explain those please?
+Chris Palmer Hi Chris. Good question. Hip driven strokes are for casual paddling out, where the goal is to save energy. The basic are that the hips engage the rotation, elongating each stroke and therefore taking fewer strokes. A shoulder driven stroke is used when sprinting or catching waves. It uses the rotation from your shoulders so that you can increase your stroke rate and take deeper, more powerful strokes. In both, the head needs to be centered so that the rest of the body is balanced and you rotate around an imaginary axis that extends from your head to past your tailbone. Hope that helps. Let me know if you'd like me to try and explain it a different way. Cheers!
great vid. Does it matter the direction of reaching for each stroke? I'm working with a PT to help correct shoulder impingement in both shoulders. She is recommending i keep high elbows like you've said, but reach slightly wider then my board and try pulling more inward like a "V". I've noticed that my external rotators are very weak and I get A clicking sound in my right shoulder if I don't consistently reach elbow higher, thus firing more external rotators to keep the impingement from occurring. Thoughts? I like what you said about using pec major/lats,
Good question - first off, I'm not a PT but have worked with a lot of surfers that come here for live stroke analysis sessions. One common adjustment that can be made is not so much the direction of reaching, but to not immediately apply force down as soon as your hand enters. First, enter your hand flat (sometimes that remedies the problem), then from the surface to about 3 o'clock, just let the oncoming water push your hand and forearm down by pitching your hand down slightly after a short glide forward. It's like when you stick your hand out of the car window when your driving. The problem with telling you to go wider or narrower is that I'm not sure how wide or narrow you're currently going, so if you're ever in the SF Bay Area, come out for a session and then I can video and view the lateral alignment as well as other aspects - training.surfingpaddling.com/strokeanalysis . Otherwise, participants in the online Surfing Paddling Academy can send me videos and I get to analyze their stroke that way. Hopefully this helps and feel free to contact me with any other questions. Cheers.
Good question and you are correct to dial in on the latissimus dorsi and pectoralis major muscles for power. The best and simplest exercises for those are pull-ups push-ups and dips. Nothing more special about. there have been studies linking these exercises to paddling power over the last decade.
@4:30 That is not paddling on a surfboard, it's more like swimming. The back has to be arch for stability. Kicking is used only when propelling/catching a wave. You'll only need two or three kicks the most. The kick does not not really impulse, but make your body lean forward when required. It's all about momentum.
Thanks for the comment! You're right in that paddling a shortboard is more like assisted swimming than paddling. You're also correct that studies have shown kicking increases velocity, but they still aren't sure whether it is because of an increase in propulsive force, or whether it is because of a decrease in drag (or a combination of both). At any rate, it helps when catching a wave, as long as you don't lose horizontal and lateral balance.
What I meant is that guy is swimming and not using proper posture to paddle a surfboard. Back has to be "arch." Look at Kelly on the video and then compare to the one on 4:30
Good clarification. Based on studies I've conducted with clients, we've actually been able to increase paddling efficiency up to 25% by having a more neutral spine rather than the high arch. Kelly has incredible mobility and flexibility and doesn't use a lot of energy with his arch, but the majority of surfers don't have that advantage and use a lot of energy trying to maintain that arch. Case in point, watch surfers after they've been surfing for 2+ hours and their back arch diminishes. But one doesn't need that arch to be more efficient or have power in their stroke. Using a fraction of the energy in the arch, they can actually increase efficiency and increase propulsion when combined with one other technique I teach. This is a great discussion and I appreciate you bringing it up. Thanks and happy wave hunting!
Would keeping the elbow high cause a lot of internal rotation of the shoulder, which places pressure on the rotator cuff? The hip/shoulder driven stroke reduces the pressure on the rotator cuff, right? Also, would keeping your back arched reduce pressure on the rotators (even though you are using more energy)? Thanks.
Good question. Depends on how high you keep the elbow up. The best way to reserve use of the rotator cuff is to elevate the elbow right before you enter the water instead of keeping it high from the recovery forward. Yes, rotating the body reducing the use of the rear rotator cuff muscles. And keeping the back arched, but not so high that you're using so much energy holding it would also help with reducing rotator cuff use. The whole idea is to minimize the use of the rotator cuff for any power motions and use the rotator cuff the way they are designed to be used - for rotation and stabilization of the shoulder joint. Really glad you asked these questions!
Thanks for the reply. I will definitely try out only raising the elbow before I initiate the stroke because keeping it high from the recovery really drains me. I read online that keeping your back slightly arched incorporates your lats more into the stroke and coincides with what you said about it reducing rotator cuff use. Very helpful thanks again!
What do you mean throw the arms over a barrel? You're meant to be IN IT! Thank you for this. Watched the whole of the video thinking "so that's why I'm crap!..." 😂 Lots to try tomorrow morning...
Nice vic. But isn't rolling and head still is an opposite action? I am not sure how to roll and head still together. ofcourse, it is *slight* roll but that looks super hard to me. haha
Good question. Keep the head still looking forward while the body and board rotate around that axis. Imagine a pole extends from the head down to the tailbone (kind of like the stringer of the board) and you rotate your shoulders/hips around that pole slightly from rail to rail. Another visual would be trying to balance a bottle on your head while you paddle.
Hi. Good question. Creating a hole is what your hand and arm do immediately after entering them into the water. They break the frontal resistance (along with the tip of your board) so that the rest of your body and board can move smoothly forward. The reason the hand, arm and tip of the board are best for this is because they are all the most tapered parts of our bodies. Resistive drag is reduced when using tapered areas to enter the water. The reason why we are trying to create a hole is so that we can lengthen the vessel - a whole other lesson all about that in the surfing paddling training. Go sign up and check it out (it's free). Cheers
Oh thanks, that's something along the lines of what I thot. And I got the lengthening the vessels part. Already signed up 😃😃, looking forward to improving my paddle
Does having a relatively bulky upper section (delts, traps, pecs) and/or or broad ribcage detract from ability to paddle? I have surfed many years, can do lots of snappy and powerful turns, but ive always felt that im not a good paddler, despite being very fit, i can swim okay, and can surf well. I cant seem to figure out what the issue is. 5'10 and about 175 lbs. I ride around 31 to 33 L boards. Thanks for the video.
Great question David. Apologies for the delayed response. There have not been any studies that conclude that being heavier up top reduces paddling ability. If you are quite strong in general, then the disconnect is probably where you are applying that force during your stroke. Work on progressively adding force from the front of your stroke to the back, peaking after your arm passes your shoulder in the stroke. If you'd like to have me take a look at your stroke, you are more than welcome to send me a video or come do a stroke analysis session with me. DM me or email me at rob@surfingpaddling.com. If we can get your technique down, you will be a force to reckon with when paddling. There was a study showing a correlation between paddling power and pull up strength. I'm thinking you can do a lot of pull ups (maybe?). Just a guess. Thanks for the comment and looking forward to hearing from you.
Hey Rob, I have a quite simple question for you: is it better to paddle with your hands slightly open (some space between the fingers) or is it better to paddle with your hands closed (no space between the fingers). I know that these techniqus have changed during the last 10 years in swimming also. Kind Regards, Bjorn
+Björn Verburgh Great question! Yes, studies have shown in swimming lately that having the fingers slightly spread apart does provide an advantage. However, the advantage is higher when you are moving faster through the water. The air bubbles that are created in between the slightly spread fingers provide the paddler/swimmer with more surface area to grab water with. This phenomenon increases as your speed increases. As your speed increases, so does your stroke rate. The time spent in the Lift phase of the underwater armstroke (the 1st phase) is shortened, almost as though you are plunging your hand straight into the Front Propulsive phase of the underwater armstroke (the 2nd phase), which is where we generate all of our power. An increased stroke rate and decreased time spent in the Lift phase creates natural air bubbles as you catch the water. I show a great video of this in the Surfing Paddling Academy online course but you can view it with any underwater angle of a swimmer or surfer sprinting. Also, having the fingers spread slightly and most importantly, relaxed, conserves more energy than trying to make sure your hand is as stiff as a board. Hope that makes sense! If not, let me know and I'll try to explain a different way. Cheers!
Man, that's a bummer. Dislocations aren't fun. Hopefully you've been able to work with a good PT to get back out in the water. Check out more of my training videos at my website SurfingPaddling.com. Cheers.
Great video and I paddle using all of the 3 techniques...but at 5'3" I'm never going to paddle as fast as someone with 'just' decent technique and longer arms. It's simple physics, my arms do not go as deep into the water. It's the same as paddling a Kayak with a shorter paddle.
Yes, good observation. I don't have the greatest wingspan either, but we can at least optimize what we have and use less energy than them. The difference in energy usage can be a great advantage when trying to catch more waves in a session. Thanks for the comment! Cheers!
I have to sort of disagree with the head side to side part. You are correct while paddling on flat water with no wave approaching, the head movement can surely bog you down. But when paddling into waves it is actually very helpful. People like to draw comparisons between swimming and surfing and while there are lots of similarities, they are not the same. In surfing you have a set of fins under you that help generate speed and the way they are used is to create a side to side wiggle motion to push water thru the fins and propel you forward. An example is when you are pumping down the line on your feet. You can also accomplish this pumping motion while on your stomach and paddling into a wave and this is usually accomplished when the surfer is kicking. Kicking accomplishes 2 things, getting your legs out of water to reduce drag and wiggle you forward if done properly. Again this technique is only useful when catching a wave because you need to use the wave as a speed catalyst and then use the wiggle to supplement the wave speed. Great video and hope this helps.
Interesting take on it. While there haven't been scientific studies done on using fins to generate speed when paddling, this is a great research question to pose. Appreciate the thoughtful comment!
Unless you believe that by creating a back and forth you're actually doing a fish wiggle which is increasing your speed which is I think what that dude in the white jersey was doing your theory does not include the fish wiggle
One thing that went unmentioned is how Kelly points his feet back. This reduces an enormous amount of drag and allows his feet to float and glide vs. pushing water.
Can you believe the things our swim coaches said actually meant something?!? LOL! I had that realization over 15 years ago and decided to contact all of my water polo and swim coaches to interview them. That began my "quest" to understand stroke mechanics and how it relates to the paddling stroke. Glad you caught the connection. Let me know if you have any questions on where it's different for paddling on a surfboard. Cheers!
The video of the guy in the pool shows how poor arch in back and body placement on the board createa drag in the water (the board isnt horizontal) look at kellys board and feet in the water
+Paul Underpressure Absolutely agree with how body positioning affects drag in the water. There's a balance between the degree of arch in the back, expending too much energy arching the back, and position on the board. Add to that the slope of the waves you're paddling into and the constantly changing surface of the ocean - makes it extra important to improve paddling technique. Thanks for the comment!
rublaj No worries! It's not necessarily bad, but doesn't help much, that's all. Save your energy and just slip your hand out of the water at the end of the stroke to get ready for the next stroke. Cheers.
The real reason kelly Slater is such a fast paddler is that silky smooth head. No drag there at all.
lmao u have a point
I'm a university swimmer and one of my special interests is hydrodynamics (and other physics associated with swimming).
Great educational video! :D
I find your transfer of knowledge from swimming to surfing very smart.
I agree with you on all points, but I do have to address the part where you ask the rhetorical question "Do you think you get more propulsion from a larger surface area, or a smaller one?".
What may seem obvious at first is as you say "I know that you all know the answer is to have a larger surface area to hold the water and propell yourself forward". This principle would prove to be true in air, but the problem when you apply this thinking to hydrodynamics is the added resistance of the arm sticking deep into water (much denser than air).
In swimming the relation between resistance/drag and power is 1:3, meaning that to achieve the same increased speed/performance as a 10% decrease in resistance you would have to have a 33% increase in power.
Ex. Swimmer is swimming at a speed of 2m/s. To win the race the swimmer has to increase her speed by 0.2m/s (10%). She can either focus on her technique and reduce resistance/drag by 10%, or increase her power/effort by 33%.
This is why deep strokes are only used by professional swimmers on shorter distances, where they are able to maintaining their increased power without fatiguing. Long distance swimmers are much better of with more shallow strokes (while still keeping a high elbow!).
Wouldn't this apply to surfing as well, with shallow strokes for general paddling and deep strokes for those short sprints to catch waves? :)
Best regards!
Many thanks for the comment and the kind words. I greatly enjoyed reading your comment as well. I've read similar swim studies with this question of a deeper stroke vs shallower and agree with you completely that the "deep catch" stroke, as coined by the engineers over at Johns Hopkins, should only be used for sprinting (or catching the wave), whereas the slightly shallower stroke, commonly name the "S" stroke, should be preferred for paddling out and around in the lineup. In the free training series, I go into further evidence as to why this is, at www.surfingpaddling.com (it's the third video I send - titled "Increasing Propulsion"). Great minds think alike!
Absolutely agree. Many thanks
Whoa that was very usefull and interesting comment ;) thanks
I think it depends even further, in fact if a surfer is caught inside or is paddling in the foam the first "layers"of water are very turbolent and not very "catchy", instead are very "slippy". In my book paddling with shallow strokes in the foam is a one way ticket for the beach. Even if a deep stoke is theorically made for sprinting and short time applications i think that on a practical ground the depth of the stoke is proportional to the turbolence of the water and a deep stroke could be used even for longer periods of time (resistance) in order to reach the "more laminar" layers of water and be more effective. Do you think is correct?
Claudio from Italy (and yes, we occasionally have waves during winter!)
Good question. Yes, when caught inside, there is very little we can do to grab hold of any water as it is mostly foam (air). The key here is to realize this and save energy. One thing that helps hold some ground is above water kicking - alternating swinging the the heels to the buttocks. This provides a little propulsion forward without needing to grab anything with the arms. It's a minor lurch forward, but effective when trying to stay on top of all the turbulence. Once the foam starts to settle, feeling around for resistance with the arm and hand provides the optimal strategy at starting to take strokes again. In other words, slow down the stroke so that you're feeling something to "hold", rather than swinging the arms and moving so quickly through the stroke. At times, you'll feel the turbulent water pushing against your arm which is the optimal time to apply force backward. It is truly "anchoring your hand" as I explain in the Surfing Paddling Academy Online course.
Felt like I just watched a khan academy video of surfing technique. Love it! Definitely going to incorporate these next time I paddle out.
LOL! Thank you so much. What a compliment. Appreciate it very much and if you have any questions, please do not hesitate. Cheers!
I was at Tavarua Fiji in the early 90s and Kelly with a bunch of other pros were there-the yr he won his first world title. We were all out at Cloud Break about 6’ - I paddled for wave and suddenly Kelly appears beside me like a flash and was on this wave. It was like he was flying thru water, unbelievable paddling ability. Looking at him in video doesn’t reveal what’s really going on, he truly is the master surfer..
Yes he is!! Great story you shared. Thanks.
Thank you so much for this video, never thought I would be waiting for my next surfing session just to paddle and try these new things!
That's awesome to hear! Thanks for sharing!
Hey Rob....I know this is an 8yr old video.
But after two years I started to get serious about surfing.
I cannot believe I still have my rotator cuffs. My paddling was always like ice skating, just scratching, not going anywhere.
I'm athletic in other sports and thought I could just use my power to overcome my lack of surf skill. Your paddle videos have been a serious light bulb moment.
Amazing g to hear. Thanks for taking the time to share and I’m stoked for you.
As a swim coach and avid surfer, I feel this is a fantastic video! Great job thanks.
+Jeff K (CanH8r) Great to hear from a fellow swimmer and surfer. Apologies that I shared what we've known for years, but we're making the lineup a happier place with less frustration! See you in the water!
I applied those technics to my session today this morning and I caught 5 times more waves. Thank you so much. You push my progress like crazy. 🚀
Such a great comment to read. Thank you so much for the feedback and I’m stoked for your progress.
The best paddling video on UA-cam. Please please please break down catching unbroken waves. Tips and tricks. You are a legend
Thank you so much for the feedback. Check out the newer vids on how to catch waves easily. My Level 2 course goes into more detail but these vids I’m referring to have helped a bunch of surfers so far.
Thank you so much for posting this. I was missing the high elbow technique and started applying it after I watched the video. Wow! Huge difference! Paddling power increased, can surf longer sessions and catch more waves. Having tons of fun thanks to the tips! Highly recommended.
+Antonio Rondan So great to hear. Keep it up. Pass it on to others to help them out too. Cheers.
Thanks on the insight,I been surfing for 40 year's and Keep learning new stuff every day,there is science to Kelly's approach to paddling.Paddling is so underrated in the importance of getting good.
Absolutely underrated. On average, we paddle approximately 85% of the active time in the water. For reference, if we surfed for 2 hours, we do about 1.5 hours of paddling, 25 minutes sitting around, and 5 minutes of actually riding waves. Thanks for the comment.
I've been surfing for 24 years and could of really used this video a long time ago! Thanks!
+Andrew Stevens Really great to hear. Thank you for the feedback. There's some free training at surfingpaddling.com as well and check out some other videos I have on youtube that might help you out as well. Cheers
+Rob Case (XSWIM) thank you for the great video
You "could of" really benefited from paying attention in school too.
me too. When I paddle sometimes i feel others a swimming faster all the time
Best paddling video I've seen. Graphics and underwater pool shots helpful
Rad to hear. Thanks so much! Glad it helps.
These videos are seriously helpful, thanks very much mate!
So great to hear. You're very welcome. Pass on the knowledge if you know someone you think could use it. Cheers.
Most def did! Such a great video. Im ready to work on my paddling now.
Thank you for the good tech. Paddling info most people don’t even think about their paddling when surfing! 👍💪
Great comment. Totally true. Just thinking about you paddling a little makes the time go by faster also.
作為一個中年衝浪初學者，從划水的問題出發，沒想到很快就能在網路上挖到寶藏。非常謝謝你的影片教學。
Thank you!
Dope video. Helpful. Especially the rotation part. I'm a beginner and my paddling felt super inconsistent. Sometimes I felt like I was gliding effortlessly. While on others every stroke felt super fatiguing.
Thanks! Hopefully this helps you become a bit more consistent and efficient. Cheers!
Kelly slater paddling is more of a power stroke designed for paddling fast over a moderate distance. It uses up quite a bit of energy. Whereas 3:46, is more of a efficiency paddle, designed for slower but longer distances. The surfer at 3:46 is quite lanky and he's using this stroke as it's a efficiency stroke, you can tell by how many strokes per minute each surfer has. Both surfers have decent technique overall. Note, if you use a power stroke too much, your muscles can tire quickly depending on fitness level and you may lose paddling ability when you need it most - trying to catch a wave. I use moderate and high speed paddles in slim amounts and efficiency paddle for longer distances depending on lineup to ensure i have enough strength to paddle for a wave. I'm not unfit but i know my paddling limits and it's easy to get tired paddling by over using one technique over another. I typically use about 2 variations of each of the two strokes shown and vary my shoulder movement accordingly so I can maintain strong paddling the whole session.
Great summary. Only use those power strokes when necessary.
He also according to his book, his stroke path is under the board. Great video mate!!!
Fantastic.. im a beginner and i think this will help me loads
Super stoked to hear this. Welcome to the surf tribe!
this guys is just ROASTING Taylor Clark haha
Yeah... nice video but not very nice with him.... on the bright side he might have a look and improve !
It's all in good spirit to teach others (and maybe even him).
This is probably the most helpful:impactful video I’ve come across for paddling. You nailed it. Thanks so much.
Thank you so much for the comment and kind words. Appreciate it, truly. Just hoping it helps and you get some extra waves from it. Cheers!
@@RobCaseXSWIM Oh, it has. Like night and day difference. I'm catching loads of waves now. My last day in Indo, I did an hour session at Canggu and caught 29 waves. Long rides too. That was a personal record. Thanks again.
So awesome to hear!! Love it.
Love your videos Rob. Your videos have saved my shoulders and those of my friends too! Thank you for sharing!!
Thank you so much. Love hearing this and for the support. Cheers!
Dude the stick fingers are perfect 🤙
Call me Monet 😂
This taught me a ton about paddling. Your board matters a lot too.. if you are a stronger swimming you could still use a surfboard with less volume, however it takes more effort to keep a good paddle when you don't glide on the water as well and you should always get the board matched to the waves/skill you are at and the amount of volume necessary to get good float. I think that watching how his legs move to the swaying of his body taught me a lot about keeping a straight line, it gets harder in chop to do the same but counter-balancing with my foot is something I didn't really understand. I also used to think that only big guys with michael phelps type arms and bodies could paddle fast, boy was I wrong. There are plenty of little guys out there with really good float that glide through the water with good technique and form and proper volume to their boards. I thought that having small/average sized hands made a difference but really it doesn't when it is all about the technique and your physique/stamina to be able to keep up the form/plank position and straight line.
Great comments. Really appreciate the thoughtfulness in the response. Agreed on many of the points you outlined. Technique is key, and fitness and physical stature cover up many deficiencies in technique. Can you imagine if the fit surfers with Owen Wright arms and legs had good technique?!? Holy smokes they would move!
thank you
Thanks for the feedback!
Jeez. I cannot wait to go surfing tmrw after watching this.
Thanks! Stoked it pumps you up. Fun thing about paddling is you have a lot of time to practice!
Really good Analising about paddleling i will try for sure In my surfing.thank you so much
Thank you for the comment and kind words. Please do go try and let me know how it goes. Cheers!
Great video Rob. I transitioned from bodyboarding to longboarding in my 30's, so these videos help as I consider my paddling as the worst aspect of my surfing.
Also I work at a university and make instructional videos and your videos are very impressive.
Wow. Thank you so much for the feedback. Super glad it's helping. Longboarding has a slightly different technique than shortboard paddling so take a look through my video course or come to one of my Workshops to understand more. I am very grateful for your kind words and inspired to do more. Thank you!
Nice going with this. You must be a competitive swimmer or swim coach because you are using swim coach vocabulary. This will be very helpful to many.
Most of my research is from swim science. Nailed it. But my heart is in surfing.
Could someone explain the last tip?? How exactly do you add a roll?? What does mean from rail to rail??
Good question. The idea is that you are not completely flat while you paddle. There are several problems with paddling flat impacting both drag and propulsion. In short, use you lower rib cage to connect to the surfboard. When your body rolls slightly to one side (keeping your head still and looking forward), the surfboard connected at your rib cage should roll with the body. If there is no connection, there is lack of lateral balance and more of that balance is conducted by the arms, hence taking away potential power and propulsion (because they are being used to balance - the arms can’t do both at once).
Watch a good swimmer. They swim on their sides, not flat. Shortboard paddling has less roll than a swimmer, and a longboarder has less roll than a short boarder. Check out a few of the paddling mythbusting videos I have to learn more about this technique.
Great explanation... This video made me pay attention to how I actually paddle and I found sharpening my technique helped.
+Jack Kabibble Thanks for the comment Jack. Really glad it helps. Keep me posted on progress. Cheers.
Good stuff! Thanks!
what does it mean to have a slight roll from rail to rail? can you explain
The slight roll means the rail dips to the side you add your arm in - it helps the opposite arm recover forward and the arm entering go deeper without you having to reach.
great info, with even greater presentation skills and ills
So nice of you. Thank you. If you liked this, check out my online program or one of my Workshops, Surf Trips, or Mastery Weekend. SurfingPaddling.com. Cheers!
Question regarding the part about keeping your elbow high to use a vertical stroke; Is this necessary if your stroke is pointed inwards and going towards your belly? Almost like using your hands to "sweep" underneath your board
Good question. There are numerous studies showing that a stroke as you describe it results in significantly reduced propulsive force in the correct direction. So first thing you’d want to do is modify the stroke so that you aren’t sweeping inward on purpose. Your brain may still take that path but will be much less pronounced if you don’t try and make that hand path happen.
Amazing, bro!
Stoked you liked it!
Wow - thanks for this super useful video. Can't wait to try out these techniques!
Thanks for the comment. Let me know how it went - rob@surfingpaddling.com. Cheers!
Paddled out today and I noticed a huge difference. I was at the reef way faster and I had more power left in my arms when I got there from using the larger muscle groups. Thanks!
Dude! That is so great to hear John! Feel free to pass on what you learned to your friends and I'd be stoked to work with you in person at some point in the future. Cheers!!
Interesting on the roll... will be cognitive of that next surf. How about "recovery/glide?" For endurance, it's important with a swim stroke.
Absolutely! Great thought. In other videos and especially in the online Surfing Paddling Academy course, we dive into that topic and how it adds to efficiency of motion. The trick is that there are many different opposing motions in the stroke - doing one thing may add more drag elsewhere - and the key is knowing which has an overall positive outcome. If you can't find those other videos talking about that, let me know and I'll share some more thoughts.
i came across this series on you tube. Id love to send it to my grandkids. actually
everyone, anyone can learn or reinforce technique..woth the views
Thank you so much for the comment. Please do send it and share. I also have a free series at surfingpaddling.com. Let me know if you have any questions. Cheers.
thanks a lot Rob for these great videos . but could you explain a little better the slight roll technique , since is not very clear to me . what should i do to perform this slight roll in a few words ? thanks a lot again and all the best
Luis Mambrini Great question. The slight roll does a couple of important things to help us reduce drag and prevent shoulder injuries. But instead of getting into all of that, to answer your question, the roll is initiated from your hips. Try rolling your hips as you paddle back out. Imagine a stiff metal rod that extends from above your head to below your feet. Rotate around that metal rod, keeping your head still as your body rolls from right to left around that rod as you take your next stroke. It is important to only do this when you are paddling out or around in the lineup. You don't want to practice this when you are catching a wave because the roll is initiated from the shoulders when you are catching a wave (or sprinting). Hope this helps Luis. Let me know if you'd like me to explain it another way. Cheers.
Rob Case thanks a lot rob
great video this added alot to your old video keep up the good work
Cheers mate. Thanks for the kind words.
Wow thanks a lot
Awesome video! Good work putting these thoughts up. It helped me out.
Thanks for the kind words! I really appreciate the feedback. Let me know if you have any questions about the techniques. Cheers.
What does make a hole mean in your conserving energy video
love the breakdown, thanks for the video Rob!
Thanks for the kind words Matthew! Cheers!
I think a lot of these techniques can be learned simply by doing some freestyle strokes in the pool. High elbow catch and rotational elements are the same. I also think that the palm facing backwards throughout the stroke is also important. You'll notice how he 'throws' water backwards on the exit of the paddle stroke. That surely shows how the whole stroke is put towards propulsion (instead of early exit from the water.)
Colby Paradiso Absolutely agree. Freestyle is a great way to learn the basics of the paddle stroke, and head up freestyle mimics it even better. However, swim studies have shown that the "thowing water" at the end of the stroke is not effective for propulsion (see Ernie Maglischo's "Fast Swimming" textbook, and videos by Gary Hall, Sr. - the Race Club). In fact, it uses more energy with not enough "return on investment". When you try the head up free stroke, you'll notice this as well that it is actually physically difficult to do that. The reasoning behind the studies are fairly simple. You end up pushing water up, not backward, when you give that little push up. Propulsion is created by pushing backward (as you stated). Therefore, turning the hand pinky up and slipping it out of the water with as little resistance or drag as possible is the best technique. Great comment!
I see what you mean. Often in form-teaching, I've seen that you teach the emphasized version and the form will fall into place. I was told to 'flip' water to counter my early exit. My stroke landed somewhere in-between. So my teacher was smarter than me at the time XD. But I agree, the flick of water would be a waste.
Very well explained. Thanks for the tips. I was waiting for the underwater visual of a low elbow entry just as a comparison to the right way to do it....
I noticed something that isn't explained in the video, that i wasn't doing before and seems important: when viewed from the front, the forearm is not pointed straight down outside the board, but rather is angled under the board. I think I understand why this helps: this aligns the force of the stroke with the center of mass of the surfer and direction of travel, whereas paddling off to the side separates these vectors and introduces rotation (viewed from above) about the surfer's center of mass. Maybe this observation is super basic -- I'm not a very experienced surfer -- but no one had explained it to me before and I'm definitely bad at paddling. Do you have another video that explains this other part of the technique?
Great observation and thought process. There’s a bit more detail to that, more than a comment box will allow. My online course goes into the detail of the underwater armstroke and the path the arm takes that is optimal. I think I have a few other videos online that may show various techniques so I advise looking through my vids. Sorry I couldn’t explain in greater detail.
How about logs, which are wider in the sweet spot?
Generally, as the waterline increases and width increases, there is less roll but the slight roll from rail to rail is still present. Think of it this way - if there was no board at all (i.e., swimming) the person will roll a lot - from one side of the body to another. As you add something underneath said person (like a low volume shortboard) the roll becomes less severe but still needs to happen for several reasons to reduce drag and increase potential propulsion. Keep adding length and volume and that person gets more and more removed from the drag equation which therefore reduces the need to roll as much. Hope that answered your question
With the width of the log and some with narrower shoulders, I've seen some paddle with their arms more horizontal and not get depth if that makes sense. So less propulsion and more stress on their shoulders. @@RobCaseXSWIM
Makes total sense. I refer a lot of surfers to longer, narrower boards because of that fact, and the extra stress on the shoulders from a wider stroke.
to make high elbow entry, we need some internal rotation in shoulder joint.
Anatomically, abduction + internal rotation is a position that cause impingement.
So, impingement syndrome is common shoulder problem in surfers (which also can lead to rotator cuff tear).
How can we avoid impingement without sacrificing effective paddle?
Great question! Yes, there is internal rotation when entering with a high elbow at first. There are several keys to not having that aggravate into an injury: 1. Not over-reaching 2. Not pushing down 3. Not pushing too hard too soon. That last one is probably the most critical in making sure the arm goes all the way to the propulsive phase of the stroke, and then since there is still a threat to the rotator cuff, making sure pressure on the hand and arm is light at first, building through the stroke. I'm not a doctor, or PT, but based on anecdotal evidence with the many clients I see and the corrections we make, this is the best hypothesis I have.
Great video
Thanks for the tips… now phase two the mighty pull up….
Ang galing naman niya mag swimming sana all lalo na mag paddle hehehe lablab from team ragos
great video thank you very much!
Jannik Neumann You're very welcome. Hope it helps and if it does, feel free to pass it on to anyone else you think it could help. Cheers
gracias for the tips
+Jorge Gabriel Goya De nada! Glad you enjoyed them. Cheers
Great tips Rob, thanks!
so here im asking to surf like kelly.!! hahha i had my very first session of surfing & im in love with it ! bt i barely can swimming to be paddle out should i learn the dip stroke or not to dip . ur vid is awesome thx so much.
Hi Gabriel, thanks for sharing the stoke. Swimming will certainly help with paddling, and with being more comfortable in the ocean in general. I've not heard of the "dip stroke", but I definitely think seeing a swim coach for some simple tips is recommended. Hope you grab some waves and continue to share the stoke. Cheers.
i do not understand what is meant by slight roll, to do the full rotating movement beneath water ?
Hi Rafael, good question. If you were to view your stroke from the front, you should see a slight roll from rail to rail are you progress from one stroke to the next. Nice and smooth. This way, you go in a straight line. If you see the nose of the board moving right and left, then if you viewed your path from a bird's eye, you'd see a path that doesn't go very straight - rather squiggly. Let me know if you'd like me to explain it differently. Be glad to do so. Cheers...
Fantastic tutorial, nice way to scaffold your pedagogy. I like the barrel role concept especially, easy to remember and visualise kinesthetically while in the water.
I'd love to know more about your kicking technique on the board, how do you incorporate that with rule 3 and the spring coil roll? Seems like it is a more whole of body technique?
+Tumbleweed Wow, thank you for the kind words. I greatly appreciate the feedback. Great question on kicking. I reserve the discussion on kicking until the very last module of the online class because it is a technique that is not fundamental, but rather one that can be used to enhance your stroke even further. Call it an "add-on". Studies have shown that kicking does increase velocity, but we are still working on determining whether it is because there is a reduction in drag or an actual increase in propulsive force. Regardless, we know it helps, but we need to use it sparingly because it reduces overall energy. In the class I explain in more detail, but the summary version is to not kick when paddling out and paddling around casually. Keep your feet up slightly and together to reduce drag. When we're sprinting or catching a wave, kick with fast quick kicks, toes pointed, feeling the water on the downstroke and the upstroke. The reason I reserve kicking until the end of the class is because a lot of people have a hard time doing both kicking and rotation. It's like patting your head while rubbing your stomach for a lot of people. The rotation is more fundamental and needs to be addressed first. So focus on the slight roll from rail to rail, initiated by your hips (like you said, more of a whole body rotation) when you're paddling casually. The slight roll comes from your shoulders when sprinting. See more description in a reply to a comment below (Chris Palmer). And for an even deeper explanation, take the training series at www.surfingpaddling.com. I'll take that beer any time my friend. Sounds like a plan. But first, go out and use these techniques and let me know how it goes. Cheers.
Yea, watching the kicking was kind of distracting. The arm stuff was gold, great vid!
Many thanks for the comment and the feedback.
You mention in the video that hip initiated rolling and shoulder initiated rolling can both be beneficial but in different circumstances... Can you explain those please?
+Chris Palmer Hi Chris. Good question. Hip driven strokes are for casual paddling out, where the goal is to save energy. The basic are that the hips engage the rotation, elongating each stroke and therefore taking fewer strokes. A shoulder driven stroke is used when sprinting or catching waves. It uses the rotation from your shoulders so that you can increase your stroke rate and take deeper, more powerful strokes. In both, the head needs to be centered so that the rest of the body is balanced and you rotate around an imaginary axis that extends from your head to past your tailbone. Hope that helps. Let me know if you'd like me to try and explain it a different way. Cheers!
Thanks for your response... I will be putting this into practice!
helped so much thanks
Thank you so much for the feedback. Super glad it helped out. Feel free to contact me with any questions.
Thanks for the tips 👍that is just what I needed.
So great to hear William. Let me know if you have any questions and I'll do my best to answer them. Cheers!
great vid. Does it matter the direction of reaching for each stroke? I'm working with a PT to help correct shoulder impingement in both shoulders. She is recommending i keep high elbows like you've said, but reach slightly wider then my board and try pulling more inward like a "V". I've noticed that my external rotators are very weak and I get A clicking sound in my right shoulder if I don't consistently reach elbow higher, thus firing more external rotators to keep the impingement from occurring. Thoughts? I like what you said about using pec major/lats,
Good question - first off, I'm not a PT but have worked with a lot of surfers that come here for live stroke analysis sessions. One common adjustment that can be made is not so much the direction of reaching, but to not immediately apply force down as soon as your hand enters. First, enter your hand flat (sometimes that remedies the problem), then from the surface to about 3 o'clock, just let the oncoming water push your hand and forearm down by pitching your hand down slightly after a short glide forward. It's like when you stick your hand out of the car window when your driving. The problem with telling you to go wider or narrower is that I'm not sure how wide or narrow you're currently going, so if you're ever in the SF Bay Area, come out for a session and then I can video and view the lateral alignment as well as other aspects - training.surfingpaddling.com/strokeanalysis . Otherwise, participants in the online Surfing Paddling Academy can send me videos and I get to analyze their stroke that way. Hopefully this helps and feel free to contact me with any other questions. Cheers.
dude, excellent insight!
Thank you very much for the feedback. Kind regards
Great video. I thought I'd just UA-cam it and see if here's any tips and I'm glad I did 👍🏻
Thanks so much for the kind words. Super glad you got some value from it. Cheers!
Ive been paddling with my rotator cuff all my life do to poor technique and lack strength. 😭😭😭
Do you have exercise recommendations for my pecks/lats?
Good question and you are correct to dial in on the latissimus dorsi and pectoralis major muscles for power. The best and simplest exercises for those are pull-ups push-ups and dips. Nothing more special about. there have been studies linking these exercises to paddling power over the last decade.
this is going to help me not look like an idiot, starting surfing this month jax florida
amazing stuff.. keep it up! thanks
+why so serious?! Wow, thanks for the kind words. Appreciate it. I'll do my best. Cheers
@4:30 That is not paddling on a surfboard, it's more like swimming. The back has to be arch for stability. Kicking is used only when propelling/catching a wave. You'll only need two or three kicks the most. The kick does not not really impulse, but make your body lean forward when required. It's all about momentum.
Thanks for the comment! You're right in that paddling a shortboard is more like assisted swimming than paddling. You're also correct that studies have shown kicking increases velocity, but they still aren't sure whether it is because of an increase in propulsive force, or whether it is because of a decrease in drag (or a combination of both). At any rate, it helps when catching a wave, as long as you don't lose horizontal and lateral balance.
What I meant is that guy is swimming and not using proper posture to paddle a surfboard. Back has to be "arch." Look at Kelly on the video and then compare to the one on 4:30
Good clarification. Based on studies I've conducted with clients, we've actually been able to increase paddling efficiency up to 25% by having a more neutral spine rather than the high arch. Kelly has incredible mobility and flexibility and doesn't use a lot of energy with his arch, but the majority of surfers don't have that advantage and use a lot of energy trying to maintain that arch. Case in point, watch surfers after they've been surfing for 2+ hours and their back arch diminishes. But one doesn't need that arch to be more efficient or have power in their stroke. Using a fraction of the energy in the arch, they can actually increase efficiency and increase propulsion when combined with one other technique I teach. This is a great discussion and I appreciate you bringing it up. Thanks and happy wave hunting!
Rob Case Unarch back equals looking like a kook. I even cross my legs. (No one does that at my breaks) Is all about style, like Michael Jordan. :-)
Lol! For sure!
Would keeping the elbow high cause a lot of internal rotation of the shoulder, which places pressure on the rotator cuff? The hip/shoulder driven stroke reduces the pressure on the rotator cuff, right? Also, would keeping your back arched reduce pressure on the rotators (even though you are using more energy)? Thanks.
Good question. Depends on how high you keep the elbow up. The best way to reserve use of the rotator cuff is to elevate the elbow right before you enter the water instead of keeping it high from the recovery forward. Yes, rotating the body reducing the use of the rear rotator cuff muscles. And keeping the back arched, but not so high that you're using so much energy holding it would also help with reducing rotator cuff use. The whole idea is to minimize the use of the rotator cuff for any power motions and use the rotator cuff the way they are designed to be used - for rotation and stabilization of the shoulder joint. Really glad you asked these questions!
Thanks for the reply. I will definitely try out only raising the elbow before I initiate the stroke because keeping it high from the recovery really drains me. I read online that keeping your back slightly arched incorporates your lats more into the stroke and coincides with what you said about it reducing rotator cuff use. Very helpful thanks again!
Excellent tutorial.
What do you mean throw the arms over a barrel? You're meant to be IN IT!
Thank you for this. Watched the whole of the video thinking "so that's why I'm crap!..." 😂 Lots to try tomorrow morning...
😂 totally. Appreciate the laugh and the feedback. Hope it went well.
Nice vic. But isn't rolling and head still is an opposite action? I am not sure how to roll and head still together. ofcourse, it is *slight* roll but that looks super hard to me. haha
Good question. Keep the head still looking forward while the body and board rotate around that axis. Imagine a pole extends from the head down to the tailbone (kind of like the stringer of the board) and you rotate your shoulders/hips around that pole slightly from rail to rail. Another visual would be trying to balance a bottle on your head while you paddle.
I saw ur video on how to conserve energy while paddling, I saw writing that said make a hole although it was never explained, wat does it mean?
Hi. Good question. Creating a hole is what your hand and arm do immediately after entering them into the water. They break the frontal resistance (along with the tip of your board) so that the rest of your body and board can move smoothly forward. The reason the hand, arm and tip of the board are best for this is because they are all the most tapered parts of our bodies. Resistive drag is reduced when using tapered areas to enter the water. The reason why we are trying to create a hole is so that we can lengthen the vessel - a whole other lesson all about that in the surfing paddling training. Go sign up and check it out (it's free). Cheers
Oh thanks, that's something along the lines of what I thot. And I got the lengthening the vessels part. Already signed up 😃😃, looking forward to improving my paddle
awesome videoo!!!=) thank you
Thanks for the comment. Glad you enjoyed it and hope it helps!
true bomb on the topic! thanks!!!
Thank you so much for the feedback. Stoked and hopefully a few tips helped.
Taylor Clark is going to be so bummed that he's the bad paddler! You used him in three different heats, too funny!
Does having a relatively bulky upper section (delts, traps, pecs) and/or or broad ribcage detract from ability to paddle? I have surfed many years, can do lots of snappy and powerful turns, but ive always felt that im not a good paddler, despite being very fit, i can swim okay, and can surf well. I cant seem to figure out what the issue is.
5'10 and about 175 lbs. I ride around 31 to 33 L boards.
Thanks for the video.
Great question David. Apologies for the delayed response. There have not been any studies that conclude that being heavier up top reduces paddling ability. If you are quite strong in general, then the disconnect is probably where you are applying that force during your stroke. Work on progressively adding force from the front of your stroke to the back, peaking after your arm passes your shoulder in the stroke. If you'd like to have me take a look at your stroke, you are more than welcome to send me a video or come do a stroke analysis session with me. DM me or email me at rob@surfingpaddling.com. If we can get your technique down, you will be a force to reckon with when paddling. There was a study showing a correlation between paddling power and pull up strength. I'm thinking you can do a lot of pull ups (maybe?). Just a guess. Thanks for the comment and looking forward to hearing from you.
1. head still, 2. high elbow entry, 3. slight roll
Bingo
Interesting
Hey Rob,
I have a quite simple question for you: is it better to paddle with your hands slightly open (some space between the fingers) or is it better to paddle with your hands closed (no space between the fingers). I know that these techniqus have changed during the last 10 years in swimming also.
Kind Regards,
Bjorn
+Björn Verburgh Great question! Yes, studies have shown in swimming lately that having the fingers slightly spread apart does provide an advantage. However, the advantage is higher when you are moving faster through the water. The air bubbles that are created in between the slightly spread fingers provide the paddler/swimmer with more surface area to grab water with. This phenomenon increases as your speed increases. As your speed increases, so does your stroke rate. The time spent in the Lift phase of the underwater armstroke (the 1st phase) is shortened, almost as though you are plunging your hand straight into the Front Propulsive phase of the underwater armstroke (the 2nd phase), which is where we generate all of our power. An increased stroke rate and decreased time spent in the Lift phase creates natural air bubbles as you catch the water. I show a great video of this in the Surfing Paddling Academy online course but you can view it with any underwater angle of a swimmer or surfer sprinting. Also, having the fingers spread slightly and most importantly, relaxed, conserves more energy than trying to make sure your hand is as stiff as a board. Hope that makes sense! If not, let me know and I'll try to explain a different way. Cheers!
I wish I would've known this before I dislocated my shoulder so many times in the past from paddling
Man, that's a bummer. Dislocations aren't fun. Hopefully you've been able to work with a good PT to get back out in the water. Check out more of my training videos at my website SurfingPaddling.com. Cheers.
good vid man
+Al Nip Appreciate the feedback - thank you!
wow i have not been paddling deep enough
FerreneMachine same
Great video and I paddle using all of the 3 techniques...but at 5'3" I'm never going to paddle as fast as someone with 'just' decent technique and longer arms. It's simple physics, my arms do not go as deep into the water. It's the same as paddling a Kayak with a shorter paddle.
Yes, good observation. I don't have the greatest wingspan either, but we can at least optimize what we have and use less energy than them. The difference in energy usage can be a great advantage when trying to catch more waves in a session. Thanks for the comment! Cheers!
If i manage to paddle out, i see you in the water !
KellyLegend
I have to sort of disagree with the head side to side part. You are correct while paddling on flat water with no wave approaching, the head movement can surely bog you down. But when paddling into waves it is actually very helpful. People like to draw comparisons between swimming and surfing and while there are lots of similarities, they are not the same. In surfing you have a set of fins under you that help generate speed and the way they are used is to create a side to side wiggle motion to push water thru the fins and propel you forward. An example is when you are pumping down the line on your feet. You can also accomplish this pumping motion while on your stomach and paddling into a wave and this is usually accomplished when the surfer is kicking. Kicking accomplishes 2 things, getting your legs out of water to reduce drag and wiggle you forward if done properly. Again this technique is only useful when catching a wave because you need to use the wave as a speed catalyst and then use the wiggle to supplement the wave speed. Great video and hope this helps.
Interesting take on it. While there haven't been scientific studies done on using fins to generate speed when paddling, this is a great research question to pose. Appreciate the thoughtful comment!
Brilliant thanks
6:25 anybody else see a head above him to the left??
Unless you believe that by creating a back and forth you're actually doing a fish wiggle which is increasing your speed which is I think what that dude in the white jersey was doing your theory does not include the fish wiggle
One thing that went unmentioned is how Kelly points his feet back. This reduces an enormous amount of drag and allows his feet to float and glide vs. pushing water.
Great observation! We all want more glide because that allows us to work less! Cheers!
What’s a roll ?
The roll from rail to rail is a slight tilt of the board and body from right to left and left to right.
Haha this is literally the same techniques my swim coach would drill into us at practice. Streamline, hip rotation and high elbow
Can you believe the things our swim coaches said actually meant something?!? LOL! I had that realization over 15 years ago and decided to contact all of my water polo and swim coaches to interview them. That began my "quest" to understand stroke mechanics and how it relates to the paddling stroke. Glad you caught the connection. Let me know if you have any questions on where it's different for paddling on a surfboard. Cheers!
This felt like online schooling from my science teacher
LOL! Yep. That's kind of how I roll. Thanks for the laugh and comment.
God this really helps
Lol! Thank you so much for the comment. Stoked it helped
One more thing to do is to keep your feet still slightly over the water
Good addition!
The video of the guy in the pool shows how poor arch in back and body placement on the board createa drag in the water (the board isnt horizontal) look at kellys board and feet in the water
+Paul Underpressure Absolutely agree with how body positioning affects drag in the water. There's a balance between the degree of arch in the back, expending too much energy arching the back, and position on the board. Add to that the slope of the waves you're paddling into and the constantly changing surface of the ocean - makes it extra important to improve paddling technique. Thanks for the comment!
+Rob Case (XSWIM
I spent 8 years surfing thinking trowing water when paddling was a good thing!
rublaj No worries! It's not necessarily bad, but doesn't help much, that's all. Save your energy and just slip your hand out of the water at the end of the stroke to get ready for the next stroke. Cheers.