Funny thing is, Slater was taught when he was very young to paddle under his board. I grew with up him and competed in the amatuers with him. You will not find another human being who has invested more into his craft on this entire Earth. He's also the most accessable celebrity sportsman there is and treats strangers like they're the most important person to him. The guy isn't perfect, but should be enormously respected for how desciplined he is in so many areas in his life while staying real.
Hi Gabriel. Thanks for the comment. I appreciate the kind words and am glad it is helping out. You can check out more surfing paddling techniques at surfingpaddling.com Let me know if those help too. Cheers.
Thanks for the props to us PTs. and yes you are correct in that we are the best people out there to assess whether or not a conservative approach to stabilizing an unstable joint is the best course of action. Thanks again.
I won't bore you with my background but I know a little bit. And I say that to establish some cred when I say that this is one of the best explanations on surfing, in regard to paddling, which of course relates to position. And well. That a good bit of it right. I wish this was around 20 years ago. Thank you.
Hi Rob, thanks for your excellent insight - have surfed for 30 years without any real thought on this aspect (just thought it was time on the water) - will definitely try and apply in the water - ! thanks
Yep this works..I just watched this clip and went down to the pool. I feel like ive worked exact same muscle group as if i had a hard days paddle out. Personally I started with some normal (head under) freestyle lengths and then got into the head up strokes once id warmed up...thanks for the advice!
Hi Adam. Thank you very much for the comment. I agree that it is definitely a good idea for anyone to warm up with regular freestyle first, and then transition into head up free. Good stuff.
Thanks for the comment. I appreciate the feedback. As for the difference between riding a quad vs a thruster, I will have to defer to the pros. I can only tell you how it is different from a paddling perspective. The quad fish, if thick like a typical fish, will hold you higher in the water which will help with paddling. However, most are wide and hinder the roll of your stroke. The thruster = thinner, narrower = more in the water therefore more effort to paddle.
Thanks for sharing the video Rob, I've been reading about Nick Carroll's proper paddling technique. This vid provided the visuals and breakdown that I was looking for.
Glad I could help out. If you liked that, I think you'd like the free training I offer at Surfingpaddling.com. Check it out when you get a chance and apply the techniques.
Agree not to paddle to the sides but paddling too far under your board can hinder your stroke as well. Taking your stroke too far under your board requires you to bend your elbow, and losing your upper arm as apart of your stroke. The "roll" that is mentioned in the video takes care of this and channels just enough water under you board and rail for an efficient stroke.
I'm so glad that it is helping. That's why I do this. I am looking forward to the webinar series I will be conducting on paddling technique. In production right now - should be out soon.
great, can't wait to see it. I'm a female surfer, and I'm very small (grom size), it's hard for me to paddle for waves against men who are stronger and taller. So I've been working on my technique so that I can actually catch waves on crowded days in socal. I'll be looking forward to watching your series. Thanks again, Nina
I usually try and think of isolating the shoulder socket. You can move it up and down without moving your arm muscles by shrugging your shoulders to help imagine. But extending the shoulder joint up to get most extension out of stroke and only bringing it back engaging your lats and strong back muscles at the key catch point of your stroke is key to generating power efficiently. Board volume and foil distribution also places a big factor. I'll also add i used to paddle 50km+ a week for lifeguarding activities and competitions.
Many thanks for the comment. Yeah, I've been corrected a few times on that, and I am kicking myself for it, but hopefully Bede can forgive me at some point.
Great video- just FYI, it's pronounced (Beed). There's no ē on the end there. I understand why it would seem to be pronounced that way, but Travis Logie is a friend of mine and when he was telling me about Bede after a heat in Huntington Beach, he made sure my pronunciation was correct as well.
CORRECTION: Nick Carroll, who was onsite for the event, provided me some insight into the paddle battle between Kelly and Bede. Kelly didn't win a paddle battle with Bede so much as merely hold his spot on the inside. That's what got him priority. The three stroke techniques still apply. - Rob
i love your analysis! please explain the difference between riding a quad fish 5'9" as opposed to a 6'4" thruster shortboard. i am 185 pounds and 6'4" tall. i love your cartoons of the geometry. any geometry things your can do with surfing would be rad. barrel rail riding cartoons, where is the power zone on the rail during a barrel. or just angels for snapping ect. i love your perspective and information. thanks!
That's a tough situation you're in. Once you dislocate any body part, it is very easy to dislocate it again on an even lighter impact. Unfortunately, that is where my knowledge on that topic ends. I would advise speaking to a physical therapist and have them watch you pop up on a surfboard. That will help them determine whether it is related. Best of luck - I have seen cases where by strengthening and stretching the muscles around a dislocation decreases the likelihood of a repeated dislocation.
Thanks for this helpful video. You mentioned the difference in the power zone of the stroke on a shortboard vs. a longboard. Are there any other aspects of the technique that should be modified when on a longboard?
Great question. As your board size increases and your body is more out of the water, the stroke technique does change - notably, the power zone is moved forward as mentioned and the exit is faster (i.e. an upsweep at the end adds more resistance than propulsion). I will be covering the "why" to this in my free webinar series I keep mentioning as well as more details to technique. Mostly I will cover shortboard paddling technique but I must also mention longboards and even some prone paddleboarding technique to make my points clear. I will make the announcement this month so stay tuned. Thank you for the question.
I would say that one of the keys of any kind of activity is flexibility! You won't get an argument from me. Flexible muscles are able to produce more force (because you have more muscle to wind up). Good comment.
Great vid but the example pictures in the video are wrong one one thing. Almost all rotation around the axis should be done in back. Always try to keep the hips parallel with the surface of the water, of course this is very hard (and impossible when taking a breath) but if you look at the technique of good swimmers vs the best swimmers it's usually one of the biggest technical differences. Just throwing that out there.
Nice comment, but it also depends on the situation. When paddling or swimming long distance, the most optimized stroke is a hip driven stroke, where you have slight rotation around the hips which counter rotates your body and provides a bit a propulsion when you swing forward. Then, you have the other situation, a shoulder driven stroke - where the hips stay pretty much stable (as you pointed out). This is used when surfers and swimmers have a higher stroke rate (i.e. when catching a wave or sprinting). The reason why the hips don't move as much is simple - it takes longer for the hips to rotate than the shoulders so when stroke rate is increased, the hips naturally stay put while the shoulders drive the stroke. Each technique is based on the situation - hip driven is primarily done for longer distances, to conserve energy while shoulder driven is typically sprinting situations. But again, even in swimming, there is a preference based on the swimmer (which mostly correlate to the distance the swimmer swims, but there has not been scientific evidence as to which is actually better). Thanks for the comment and for bringing up this distinction. Cheers!
Rob Case I didn't know that, when i was young i trained with the texas state team swimming short distances in competition. I always attempted to stop my hips from rotating and it seemed to work back then. But i didn't know there were different situations regarding hip rotation now i know, thanks dude.
What about using swimming's 's' stroke and combining it with the boards flotation?Enter your hand just before the nose an extend it past the nose to purchase the water pull your hand down deep in the start of a big 's' - (left arm, backwards 's' on the right), this utilises your delts, trapezius, latissimus dorsi and a little bit if pec's to make the major back muscle group work directly and efficiently. Pretend that your hand is the tip of a boat prop, constantly cutting the water, thumb first, until your arm is dead straight down in, as deep as it will go - the water is denser down there providing better purchase.(Think of an old flat canoe paddle, what happens to the water when pulled through it? It spirals/spills off each edge, that is why modern blades are concaved and shaped to purchase and release water off the blade for the stroke) Now release the water and bend your arm 90 deg (the nose of your board may be under the water but don't worry). Now utilise your delt and tricepts to push straight back, as you do this, your other arm enters the water to start the same stroke. Now this is where you thank your shaper for that nose kick as your board will pop up projecting your board forward (the deeper your stroke and submersion of board the better the pop). All these flat 'nose entry 'boards don't do this and they nosedive on the wave (don't believe the hype of them being faster paddling) This stroke is hard to do and provides a lot of power. It works best in calm water (out the back or paddling for a wave). In foaming soupy water, it's all about, short, fast arm stroke speed, sometimes ya just cant get away from foam - short and fast like the video(bad example of good padling), your paddling a lot of air anyway - (on a point or well defined bank) paddle wide away from the sweep and soup - you have little water purchase anyway. Once you get good, its nice to be paddling next to someone and going faster but your arm speed can be half of theirs (or rest an arm on your nose and paddle with one arm). This type of stroke is over 3x longer than just a windmill type stroke and uses muscle groups that directly pull you through the water (think of the difference between a straight bench press, using your pecs and an incline press using a combination of pecs and delts- you cant lift as much). Well that's my yarn, give it a go, if it works - cool, if it dosent, try something different, if using your arms like a windmill works, cool but ya don't see many modern paddle steamers out there nowday's (which is what you will be like with straight arms, you tend to see boats with props). Oh I have been a professional swimming coach for 10 years and surfed for 27 years. I don't think that I am the fastest paddler and always keen to learn more but I always remember the old Hawaiian saying "you can paddle hard or smart, you should rarely have to do both."
Great description of the S stroke Scott and it sounds like we were taught the same swimming principle Doc Counsilman studied (the Bernoulli principle). Check out some of my other videos describing this if it is not familiar to you - you will recognize it right away. Thanks for the comment.
Terrific analysis. How do these tips apply for beginners like myself on a longboard? I don't quite understand the difference between paddling technique for a longboard vs. a shortboard.
Hi Allen, thanks for the comment. I've covering an entire video series on this - first two are up now and I'm working on the third as we speak - ua-cam.com/video/pyZ00DqUhAc/v-deo.html (part 1)
The biggest eye opener for me was using dark fins paddle gloves. The gloves resistance exaggerates the waters affect on your hands, and ideally, your affect on the water. I feel the "elbows up" is more to do with how your hand enters the water. The dark fin gloves allowed me to feel how much I was slapping my hands on the waters surface instead of diving them fingertips first. You could bend your wrist to get the hand in a good diving position, but that will weaken and slow down your stroke. Kelly doesn't have hands, hes got paddles.
Thanks for the comment and I agree - any gloves or paddles will increase the surface area you are pushing the water back with. I have to tell you to watch out though. I've had a client who had those gloves and they were the main reason why he had shoulder problems. There's nothing wrong with the gloves, but it's all in how they are used. The main problem he was having was that he applied force immediately upon his hand hitting the water. When that happened, it caused his small rotator cuff muscles (i.e. stabilizer muscles) to be used and not his power muscles (i.e. latissimus dorsi and pectoralis major). So the key to use those gloves is to enter them softly, just as you mentioned, then when the hand reaches the front propulsive phase, which is about 3 o'clock if you viewed the underwater armstroke from the side, then apply force backwards, keeping your elbow high. The high elbow indeed has to do with both the entry, but also the front and back propulsive phases of the underwater armstroke. Great comment and thanks for bringing this up. Cheers
I try anything I can up here on the Great Lakes as we get pounded by waves constantly when paddling out. Try 6 second periods on average, 7 or 8 if we're lucky. Only the dedicated few catch good waves.
Thanks for the comment. As for duck diving, I added some tips in another video I put together. Check it out here: ua-cam.com/video/lTK3wnzSaqs/v-deo.html
the key to paddling is flexibility. the less force you have to invest to stretch your muscles while moving your arm back to the front and stretching it out in front of you etcetc, the more force you can use to push yourself forward.
I think it is not only important if Slater and Bede are going side to side, I think it is more important the amount of energy you are using to paddle. Bede seems to be using way too much energy and he seems to sttrugle to keep up with slater, and Slater seems to be going with way more ease. At the en of the day, I think it is more important to save as much energy as you can, for the waves you are going to try to catch.
Great explanation I m struggling a bit to paddle around efficiently even though i m very fit which makes me crazy ! One thing I d like you to explain is at what angle the hand should enter the water, flat (palm and fingers together parallel to the surface of water) or with an angled wrist (therefore fingers dig into the water first in diagonal), Secondly when should the hand enter the water during the 2nd stroke ? --> when the hand of the 1st stroke is entirely out of the water or when the hand is still under the water near the hip on its way back out ? what s more efficient ? I think I do one entire stroke cycle at a time per arm but I think i m losing momentum this way.
Thank you for such a great question. First off, many other surfers feel the same way as you - fit and strong, but inefficient in paddling. Paddling is almost all technique driven so you're on the right track. The hand should enter fingertips first (middle finger if you want to be more exact) with the elbow slightly higher than the hand upon entry. Here's where there would be a difference depending on what kind of board you are riding. With a shortboard, the entry angle is more shallow. A longer board, steeper. The most efficient stroke cycle (on a shortboard) is to maintain a long waterline with one arm gliding in front while the other arm proceeds through the underwater armstroke. Just as the active arm is about to enter the water, the passive (gliding) arm should start the underwater armstroke. This is for efficiency, but not speed and acceleration. Considering we spend 90% of our paddling in energy conserving mode, this technique is more important at this stage. If you can make it to any of my Workshops or Mastery Programs and Surf Trips this year, please come out. We can go into much more detail. But you're on the right track so keep it up. Great question!
I actually signed up after my comments ! really great concept, explanation in your program, it s not easy to think about all those things when in the water (as you say, you have to take the program step by step). Hopefully you ll come over Sydney next year, would love to do a session with you with underwater camera !
Kudos. I like and appreciate your videos. Having worked w/ a swim coach on paddling technique has been helpful but you provide some key insight specific to surfing. The ladder illustration you use at one point in a vid is very good. So many good points here that you've laced up. I'm currently working w/ a physical therapist, and am going to try Feldenkrais on the recommendation of quite a few athletes/trainers/teachers. Habitual patterns of dysfunction are hard to identify much less fix
what does it mean to keep the elbow high in the catch phase???? so should my elbow be high when my arm is out of the water or should it be high when my arm is in the wateR???? I would be so grateful if someone could clarify this !
Great question! In this video, we talk about the high elbow upon entry (above the water). When this happens, even if the elbow is slightly higher than the hand upon entry, there is a greater likelihood the elbow will remain high underwater, and that's what we're really going after. Having your elbow in front of your shoulder while the hand is down in the front propulsive phase (catch) of the stroke provides a greater area for you to push backwards. The longer you push backwards, the farther you'll move forwards. Action-Reaction. To learn more about surfing paddling technique, check out SurfingPaddling.com. Lots more videos, lots more training. Cheers!
you left out something with shortboard paddling ... kelly's biography mentions part of his paddle technique ----> you want to paddle your hands underneath your surfboard not to the sides , it helps channel the water under your board
Going side to side is a result of Bede using too much energy. Slater has his core (abs and back) engaged much more than Bede does. Essentially this means he's creating power from a much more rigid frame. If you think of bicycles - there is a reason road racers don't have shocks. Shocks create a wobble that absorbs some of each stroke of the peddles because, instead of all of the energy being transmitted to the chain, a large portion of the energy gets lost in a "bounce" off the shocks.
I don't buy the importance of the elbow in this particular situation. Instead, I'd say this is a situation of Kelly having a much more efficient paddle style and simply tiring Bede out in the long run. Bede is thrashing around at one point which tires hims out while Kelly has a consistent stroke for the whole paddle.
Thanks for the comment. In fact, Nick Carrol, who was onsite at the event, clarified it even more in terms of why Kelly won the paddle battle in one of the first comments listed on this thread. He said to me that Kelly won priority because he had the inside track, but in the video, you can't really see that. Regardless, the technique is what I wanted to illustrate. I even mention that Bede uses a high elbow but at times he drops it. And I completely agree with you! Bede used a lot of energy thrashing around. Paddling well is all about energy conservation and efficiency of stroke. Thanks again for the comment.
kelly is balancing on his gut muscles his chest is not touching the board making it easier to just move your arms and nothing else so his board is not rocking
Hey there was some decent information in this video so don't get me wrong, with that said dude, come on show a little tiny bit of enthusiasm. This is some monotone and drones on and on. I could use this to put my 8 month old to sleep at night. I hope your X Swim videos aren't som bad high school lecture like. And you talk so slow bro, I could've gone through this video at about triple speed and learned more because you honestly lost me to the slow monotone audio. Lastly show Slater catch the damn wave and his ride. It was like a story where you never reached a climax. Market yourself with a different sample video. Sorry just want to help you out. Most people can handle a faster speaker unless your target audience is g are geriatrics.
Hi Tony. Thanks for the comment. I totally agree. This was one of my first videos. I think my more recent ones are heaps better. Had to laugh at your comment cause it's totally true. Thanks again. Cheers
Right on, when I surf, I do the S-pull. You know hand enters water, Palm faces away from you, then palm and arm go outward a bit till you get to your elbow then you finish the S by pushing water under your stomach and finish with a strong follow through. I had a national record when I was about 14 or 15 for freestyle. When I started surfing I had half the battle already won, no fear of water and trust in my swimming capability. It's suprising how many people don't have that. It really hinders them.
Tony Sisto Absolutely Tony! I had just mentioned that point in the recent Surfline interview. It really is a skill that all surfers should enhance. Cheers.
you left out something with shortboard paddling ... kelly's biography mentions part of his paddle technique ----> you want to paddle your hands underneath your surfboard not to the sides , it helps channel the water under your board
Funny thing is, Slater was taught when he was very young to paddle under his board. I grew with up him and competed in the amatuers with him. You will not find another human being who has invested more into his craft on this entire Earth. He's also the most accessable celebrity sportsman there is and treats strangers like they're the most important person to him. The guy isn't perfect, but should be enormously respected for how desciplined he is in so many areas in his life while staying real.
I needed this 25 years ago. Well done
Many, many thanks for the comment.
So glad you enjoyed it and found it helpful.
Thank you for taking the time and doing it so well. This helps me a lot!
Hi Gabriel. Thanks for the comment. I appreciate the kind words and am glad it is helping out. You can check out more surfing paddling techniques at surfingpaddling.com Let me know if those help too. Cheers.
Thanks for the props to us PTs. and yes you are correct in that we are the best people out there to assess whether or not a conservative approach to stabilizing an unstable joint is the best course of action. Thanks again.
I won't bore you with my background but I know a little bit. And I say that to establish some cred when I say that this is one of the best explanations on surfing, in regard to paddling, which of course relates to position. And well. That a good bit of it right. I wish this was around 20 years ago. Thank you.
Wow. Thanks for the kind words, and for the comment. Hopefully it helps some people avoid some struggle. That's the idea. Cheers.
Hi Rob, thanks for your excellent insight - have surfed for 30 years without any real thought on this aspect (just thought it was time on the water) - will definitely try and apply in the water - ! thanks
Please do! Get out there and try them out and let me know how it goes.
Great observation n analysis. Thank you.
Thank you for the comment and kind words.
Excellent vid Rob. Thanks for the insight. Now all I have to Ido is practice!
Yep this works..I just watched this clip and went down to the pool. I feel like ive worked exact same muscle group as if i had a hard days paddle out. Personally I started with some normal (head under) freestyle lengths and then got into the head up strokes once id warmed up...thanks for the advice!
Hi Adam. Thank you very much for the comment. I agree that it is definitely a good idea for anyone to warm up with regular freestyle first, and then transition into head up free. Good stuff.
Thanks for the comment. Very true about habitual patterns.
Thanks for the comment. I appreciate the feedback. As for the difference between riding a quad vs a thruster, I will have to defer to the pros. I can only tell you how it is different from a paddling perspective. The quad fish, if thick like a typical fish, will hold you higher in the water which will help with paddling. However, most are wide and hinder the roll of your stroke. The thruster = thinner, narrower = more in the water therefore more effort to paddle.
Thanks for sharing the video Rob, I've been reading about Nick Carroll's proper paddling technique. This vid provided the visuals and breakdown that I was looking for.
Glad I could help out. If you liked that, I think you'd like the free training I offer at Surfingpaddling.com. Check it out when you get a chance and apply the techniques.
Agree not to paddle to the sides but paddling too far under your board can hinder your stroke as well. Taking your stroke too far under your board requires you to bend your elbow, and losing your upper arm as apart of your stroke. The "roll" that is mentioned in the video takes care of this and channels just enough water under you board and rail for an efficient stroke.
Excellent work
Many thanks!
Thanks Ray. After watching the video again, I was laughing at myself for saying it wrong too. Apologies to Bede too.
Such a great video. I've been killing myself paddling like a swimmer!
Thanks for the note!
Thanks for the note!
This is a great video. I learned so much thanks for sharing with us.
I'm so glad that it is helping. That's why I do this. I am looking forward to the webinar series I will be conducting on paddling technique. In production right now - should be out soon.
great, can't wait to see it. I'm a female surfer, and I'm very small (grom size), it's hard for me to paddle for waves against men who are stronger and taller. So I've been working on my technique so that I can actually catch waves on crowded days in socal. I'll be looking forward to watching your series. Thanks again,
Nina
I usually try and think of isolating the shoulder socket. You can move it up and down without moving your arm muscles by shrugging your shoulders to help imagine. But extending the shoulder joint up to get most extension out of stroke and only bringing it back engaging your lats and strong back muscles at the key catch point of your stroke is key to generating power efficiently. Board volume and foil distribution also places a big factor. I'll also add i used to paddle 50km+ a week for lifeguarding activities and competitions.
Great way of looking at the movement. Thanks for the addition!
Nice work, thanks
Many thanks for the comment. Yeah, I've been corrected a few times on that, and I am kicking myself for it, but hopefully Bede can forgive me at some point.
That is great to hear Rodmer. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask.
Thanks for the break-down. I going to put these tips to the test (:
Let me know how it goes. Thanks for the comment.
Great video- just FYI, it's pronounced (Beed). There's no ē on the end there. I understand why it would seem to be pronounced that way, but Travis Logie is a friend of mine and when he was telling me about Bede after a heat in Huntington Beach, he made sure my pronunciation was correct as well.
To learn more about my background, visit the XSWIM for Surfers homepage and click on "About" in the bottom left of the page - pictures and bio.
CORRECTION: Nick Carroll, who was onsite for the event, provided me some insight into the paddle battle between Kelly and Bede. Kelly didn't win a paddle battle with Bede so much as merely hold his spot on the inside. That's what got him priority. The three stroke techniques still apply. - Rob
excelent video...thank you very much..this is helping me a lot
So glad it helps Sharon! Thank you for the comment.
i love your analysis! please explain the difference between riding a quad fish 5'9" as opposed to a 6'4" thruster shortboard. i am 185 pounds and 6'4" tall. i love your cartoons of the geometry. any geometry things your can do with surfing would be rad. barrel rail riding cartoons, where is the power zone on the rail during a barrel. or just angels for snapping ect. i love your perspective and information. thanks!
See my correction in the very first comment below. The three stroke techniques still apply. Thanks for the comment.
That's a tough situation you're in. Once you dislocate any body part, it is very easy to dislocate it again on an even lighter impact. Unfortunately, that is where my knowledge on that topic ends. I would advise speaking to a physical therapist and have them watch you pop up on a surfboard. That will help them determine whether it is related. Best of luck - I have seen cases where by strengthening and stretching the muscles around a dislocation decreases the likelihood of a repeated dislocation.
Great technique video. Common sense but it is always good to try and improve one's technique.
Funny how common sense works, Surfdocsteve - sometimes, common sense is not so common :-)
Thanks for the comment.
Very helpful thank you, from a boogie boarder
I really struggled to hear though!
Thanks for the comment. Greatly appreciate it!
Thanks for this helpful video. You mentioned the difference in the power zone of the stroke on a shortboard vs. a longboard. Are there any other aspects of the technique that should be modified when on a longboard?
Great question. As your board size increases and your body is more out of the water, the stroke technique does change - notably, the power zone is moved forward as mentioned and the exit is faster (i.e. an upsweep at the end adds more resistance than propulsion). I will be covering the "why" to this in my free webinar series I keep mentioning as well as more details to technique. Mostly I will cover shortboard paddling technique but I must also mention longboards and even some prone paddleboarding technique to make my points clear. I will make the announcement this month so stay tuned. Thank you for the question.
Rob Case Thanks. I'm really looking forward to the webinar!
I would say that one of the keys of any kind of activity is flexibility! You won't get an argument from me. Flexible muscles are able to produce more force (because you have more muscle to wind up). Good comment.
Great vid but the example pictures in the video are wrong one one thing. Almost all rotation around the axis should be done in back. Always try to keep the hips parallel with the surface of the water, of course this is very hard (and impossible when taking a breath) but if you look at the technique of good swimmers vs the best swimmers it's usually one of the biggest technical differences.
Just throwing that out there.
Nice comment, but it also depends on the situation. When paddling or swimming long distance, the most optimized stroke is a hip driven stroke, where you have slight rotation around the hips which counter rotates your body and provides a bit a propulsion when you swing forward. Then, you have the other situation, a shoulder driven stroke - where the hips stay pretty much stable (as you pointed out). This is used when surfers and swimmers have a higher stroke rate (i.e. when catching a wave or sprinting). The reason why the hips don't move as much is simple - it takes longer for the hips to rotate than the shoulders so when stroke rate is increased, the hips naturally stay put while the shoulders drive the stroke. Each technique is based on the situation - hip driven is primarily done for longer distances, to conserve energy while shoulder driven is typically sprinting situations. But again, even in swimming, there is a preference based on the swimmer (which mostly correlate to the distance the swimmer swims, but there has not been scientific evidence as to which is actually better). Thanks for the comment and for bringing up this distinction. Cheers!
Rob Case I didn't know that, when i was young i trained with the texas state team swimming short distances in competition. I always attempted to stop my hips from rotating and it seemed to work back then.
But i didn't know there were different situations regarding hip rotation now i know, thanks dude.
Molo mono Glad I could provide a little insight. Thanks again for bringing up this topic.
this is awesome video! i learnt a lot with this video!=)
That is great to hear. Glad it helped. I'll do my best to keep the content useful for everyone. Thank you for the comment.
What about using swimming's 's' stroke and combining it with the boards flotation?Enter your hand just before the nose an extend it past the nose to purchase the water pull your hand down deep in the start of a big 's' - (left arm, backwards 's' on the right), this utilises your delts, trapezius, latissimus dorsi and a little bit if pec's to make the major back muscle group work directly and efficiently. Pretend that your hand is the tip of a boat prop, constantly cutting the water, thumb first, until your arm is dead straight down in, as deep as it will go - the water is denser down there providing better purchase.(Think of an old flat canoe paddle, what happens to the water when pulled through it? It spirals/spills off each edge, that is why modern blades are concaved and shaped to purchase and release water off the blade for the stroke)
Now release the water and bend your arm 90 deg (the nose of your board may be under the water but don't worry). Now utilise your delt and tricepts to push straight back, as you do this, your other arm enters the water to start the same stroke. Now this is where you thank your shaper for that nose kick as your board will pop up projecting your board forward (the deeper your stroke and submersion of board the better the pop). All these flat 'nose entry 'boards don't do this and they nosedive on the wave (don't believe the hype of them being faster paddling)
This stroke is hard to do and provides a lot of power. It works best in calm water (out the back or paddling for a wave).
In foaming soupy water, it's all about, short, fast arm stroke speed, sometimes ya just cant get away from foam - short and fast like the video(bad example of good padling), your paddling a lot of air anyway - (on a point or well defined bank) paddle wide away from the sweep and soup - you have little water purchase anyway.
Once you get good, its nice to be paddling next to someone and going faster but your arm speed can be half of theirs (or rest an arm on your nose and paddle with one arm).
This type of stroke is over 3x longer than just a windmill type stroke and uses muscle groups that directly pull you through the water (think of the difference between a straight bench press, using your pecs and an incline press using a combination of pecs and delts- you cant lift as much).
Well that's my yarn, give it a go, if it works - cool, if it dosent, try something different, if using your arms like a windmill works, cool but ya don't see many modern paddle steamers out there nowday's (which is what you will be like with straight arms, you tend to see boats with props).
Oh I have been a professional swimming coach for 10 years and surfed for 27 years.
I don't think that I am the fastest paddler and always keen to learn more but I always remember the old Hawaiian saying "you can paddle hard or smart, you should rarely have to do both."
Great description of the S stroke Scott and it sounds like we were taught the same swimming principle Doc Counsilman studied (the Bernoulli principle). Check out some of my other videos describing this if it is not familiar to you - you will recognize it right away. Thanks for the comment.
this is helpful for me!
See one of my first comments addressing this (the correction). Thanks for watching.
Terrific analysis. How do these tips apply for beginners like myself on a longboard? I don't quite understand the difference between paddling technique for a longboard vs. a shortboard.
Hi Allen, thanks for the comment. I've covering an entire video series on this - first two are up now and I'm working on the third as we speak - ua-cam.com/video/pyZ00DqUhAc/v-deo.html (part 1)
The biggest eye opener for me was using dark fins paddle gloves. The gloves resistance exaggerates the waters affect on your hands, and ideally, your affect on the water. I feel the "elbows up" is more to do with how your hand enters the water. The dark fin gloves allowed me to feel how much I was slapping my hands on the waters surface instead of diving them fingertips first. You could bend your wrist to get the hand in a good diving position, but that will weaken and slow down your stroke. Kelly doesn't have hands, hes got paddles.
Thanks for the comment and I agree - any gloves or paddles will increase the surface area you are pushing the water back with. I have to tell you to watch out though. I've had a client who had those gloves and they were the main reason why he had shoulder problems. There's nothing wrong with the gloves, but it's all in how they are used. The main problem he was having was that he applied force immediately upon his hand hitting the water. When that happened, it caused his small rotator cuff muscles (i.e. stabilizer muscles) to be used and not his power muscles (i.e. latissimus dorsi and pectoralis major). So the key to use those gloves is to enter them softly, just as you mentioned, then when the hand reaches the front propulsive phase, which is about 3 o'clock if you viewed the underwater armstroke from the side, then apply force backwards, keeping your elbow high. The high elbow indeed has to do with both the entry, but also the front and back propulsive phases of the underwater armstroke. Great comment and thanks for bringing this up. Cheers
I try anything I can up here on the Great Lakes as we get pounded by waves constantly when paddling out. Try 6 second periods on average, 7 or 8 if we're lucky. Only the dedicated few catch good waves.
loki475 Get out there! Great Lakes surfers show true passion. Love it.
Hey Great video!! I am also having some issues with my duck dive do you think you can help?
Thanks for the comment. As for duck diving, I added some tips in another video I put together. Check it out here: ua-cam.com/video/lTK3wnzSaqs/v-deo.html
the key to paddling is flexibility. the less force you have to invest to stretch your muscles while moving your arm back to the front and stretching it out in front of you etcetc, the more force you can use to push yourself forward.
Great! Thanks man!
Cheers. Thanks for the comment!
I think it is not only important if Slater and Bede are going side to side, I think it is more important the amount of energy you are using to paddle.
Bede seems to be using way too much energy and he seems to sttrugle to keep up with slater, and Slater seems to be going with way more ease.
At the en of the day, I think it is more important to save as much energy as you can, for the waves you are going to try to catch.
Great explanation I m struggling a bit to paddle around efficiently even though i m very fit which makes me crazy ! One thing I d like you to explain is at what angle the hand should enter the water, flat (palm and fingers together parallel to the surface of water) or with an angled wrist (therefore fingers dig into the water first in diagonal), Secondly when should the hand enter the water during the 2nd stroke ? --> when the hand of the 1st stroke is entirely out of the water or when the hand is still under the water near the hip on its way back out ? what s more efficient ? I think I do one entire stroke cycle at a time per arm but I think i m losing momentum this way.
Thank you for such a great question. First off, many other surfers feel the same way as you - fit and strong, but inefficient in paddling. Paddling is almost all technique driven so you're on the right track.
The hand should enter fingertips first (middle finger if you want to be more exact) with the elbow slightly higher than the hand upon entry. Here's where there would be a difference depending on what kind of board you are riding. With a shortboard, the entry angle is more shallow. A longer board, steeper.
The most efficient stroke cycle (on a shortboard) is to maintain a long waterline with one arm gliding in front while the other arm proceeds through the underwater armstroke. Just as the active arm is about to enter the water, the passive (gliding) arm should start the underwater armstroke. This is for efficiency, but not speed and acceleration. Considering we spend 90% of our paddling in energy conserving mode, this technique is more important at this stage.
If you can make it to any of my Workshops or Mastery Programs and Surf Trips this year, please come out. We can go into much more detail. But you're on the right track so keep it up. Great question!
I actually signed up after my comments ! really great concept, explanation in your program, it s not easy to think about all those things when in the water (as you say, you have to take the program step by step). Hopefully you ll come over Sydney next year, would love to do a session with you with underwater camera !
Rad! I'll see you this summer in Sydney area. Registration will be open by the end of this month. Cheers!
Cool !
Kudos. I like and appreciate your videos. Having worked w/ a swim coach on paddling technique has been helpful but you provide some key insight specific to surfing. The ladder illustration you use at one point in a vid is very good. So many good points here that you've laced up. I'm currently working w/ a physical therapist, and am going to try Feldenkrais on the recommendation of quite a few athletes/trainers/teachers. Habitual patterns of dysfunction are hard to identify much less fix
If you (mozdickson) notice they both were battling for priority If Bede stopped that means that Kelly beat him or Bede gave up...
what does it mean to keep the elbow high in the catch phase???? so should my elbow be high when my arm is out of the water or should it be high when my arm is in the wateR???? I would be so grateful if someone could clarify this !
Great question! In this video, we talk about the high elbow upon entry (above the water). When this happens, even if the elbow is slightly higher than the hand upon entry, there is a greater likelihood the elbow will remain high underwater, and that's what we're really going after. Having your elbow in front of your shoulder while the hand is down in the front propulsive phase (catch) of the stroke provides a greater area for you to push backwards. The longer you push backwards, the farther you'll move forwards. Action-Reaction. To learn more about surfing paddling technique, check out SurfingPaddling.com. Lots more videos, lots more training. Cheers!
you left out something with shortboard paddling ... kelly's biography mentions part of his paddle technique ----> you want to paddle your hands underneath your surfboard not to the sides , it helps channel the water under your board
I'm pretty sure he knows that. Bede gets called BedEE quite often...sort of like a nickname
Going side to side is a result of Bede using too much energy. Slater has his core (abs and back) engaged much more than Bede does. Essentially this means he's creating power from a much more rigid frame.
If you think of bicycles - there is a reason road racers don't have shocks. Shocks create a wobble that absorbs some of each stroke of the peddles because, instead of all of the energy being transmitted to the chain, a large portion of the energy gets lost in a "bounce" off the shocks.
Fair enough..no worries mate
Funny thing is Slater takes over once Bede stops paddling!
The audio is bad
The problem with this video is that Bede won the paddle battle, not Kelly .. :)
I don't buy the importance of the elbow in this particular situation. Instead, I'd say this is a situation of Kelly having a much more efficient paddle style and simply tiring Bede out in the long run. Bede is thrashing around at one point which tires hims out while Kelly has a consistent stroke for the whole paddle.
Thanks for the comment. In fact, Nick Carrol, who was onsite at the event, clarified it even more in terms of why Kelly won the paddle battle in one of the first comments listed on this thread. He said to me that Kelly won priority because he had the inside track, but in the video, you can't really see that. Regardless, the technique is what I wanted to illustrate. I even mention that Bede uses a high elbow but at times he drops it. And I completely agree with you! Bede used a lot of energy thrashing around. Paddling well is all about energy conservation and efficiency of stroke. Thanks again for the comment.
Do you even surf?
speak up homie
kelly is balancing on his gut muscles his chest is not touching the board making it easier to just move your arms and nothing else so his board is not rocking
beedeeeeeee ------ its pronounced beed
Hey there was some decent information in this video so don't get me wrong, with that said dude, come on show a little tiny bit of enthusiasm. This is some monotone and drones on and on. I could use this to put my 8 month old to sleep at night. I hope your X Swim videos aren't som bad high school lecture like. And you talk so slow bro, I could've gone through this video at about triple speed and learned more because you honestly lost me to the slow monotone audio. Lastly show Slater catch the damn wave and his ride. It was like a story where you never reached a climax. Market yourself with a different sample video. Sorry just want to help you out. Most people can handle a faster speaker unless your target audience is g are geriatrics.
Hi Tony. Thanks for the comment. I totally agree. This was one of my first videos. I think my more recent ones are heaps better. Had to laugh at your comment cause it's totally true. Thanks again. Cheers
Right on, when I surf, I do the S-pull. You know hand enters water, Palm faces away from you, then palm and arm go outward a bit till you get to your elbow then you finish the S by pushing water under your stomach and finish with a strong follow through. I had a national record when I was about 14 or 15 for freestyle. When I started surfing I had half the battle already won, no fear of water and trust in my swimming capability. It's suprising how many people don't have that. It really hinders them.
Tony Sisto Absolutely Tony! I had just mentioned that point in the recent Surfline interview. It really is a skill that all surfers should enhance. Cheers.
Rob Case Rob Case, Man of the year for those replies!
and he probably surfs better than you too, so ha ;)
you left out something with shortboard paddling ... kelly's biography mentions part of his paddle technique ----> you want to paddle your hands underneath your surfboard not to the sides , it helps channel the water under your board