BMW N54 12mm HEAD BOLT UPGRADE (BUDGET ARP)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 бер 2022
- BMW N54 12mm HEAD BOLT UPGRADE (BUDGET ARP)
Become a member and get exclusive discounts at www.ZeroTo60.com plus other unique perks and benefits:
/ @zeroto60tube
In Australia? Visit the Zero To 60 Shop! www.zeroto60.com
Follow our socials for BTS stuff and more car content
On Instagram: / zeroto60tube
On Facebook: / zeroto60tube
Business Enquiries: zeroto60tube@gmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------
0-60 and 100-200 Dragy timer: amzn.to/2IKMQr0
---------------------------------------------------------
Our Must Have Tools:
Car Trim removal set: amzn.to/3oQhsHe
Under bonnet led light: amzn.to/3aaDJLt
Electric Rattle Gun: amzn.to/380Eh41
3/8" Drive torque wrench: amzn.to/34aGzwy
1/2" Drive torque wrench: amzn.to/37gGUPZ
---------------------------------------------------------
Our Must Have Car Care:
Hybrid ceramic: amzn.to/2KlkMuP
Tyre shine: amzn.to/2WcRzox
XL microfiber dry towels: amzn.to/2IShFdC
Wash mitt: amzn.to/3oQM7UA
---------------------------------------------------------
Our Camera Gear:
Ultimate camera/gear bag: amzn.to/2Kj1N46
Action/vlogging camera: amzn.to/37eWawM
Non-vibrate suction mount: amzn.to/3a9vmjy
Wireless mics for in-car audio: amzn.to/3a8C1dH
---------------------------------------------------------
When we're not working on cars, we're watching the Grand Tour!
amzn.to/3qXghY4 - Авто та транспорт
Will have to rename your channel zeroto60PSI
When i was young we'd fix our dirt bikes and reuse gaskets, rings, whatever.
So watching you work away with shed whatdoyarekon engineering is so fun to watch and hang out👍
There's a fair bit of voodoo in all this even head pressure using different bolt grades. Good luck with it all ;)
Thanks man, its just an engine at the end of the day.
These engines don’t blow head gaskets unless (for the most part) it’s a built open deck block and the sleeves flex it usually happens north of 750whp
Great info, look forward to the next vid
Wow, you got a lot of guts Andrew! Good luck, Dutch regards, Nico.
I'm looking forward to seeing this work. I'm also looking forward to my Northstar rebuild this spring
I remember my first time drilling a block and its vary scary good work man 😁🤘
Big nuts. That's all I have to add. Good work bro.
Budget head bolt upgrade FTW, love it!
AH! You're freakin me out man!! LOL. But it's very exciting IMHO anyway. Can't wait for tomorrows video. Nerding out on N54!
Yeah man I like this idea honestly might do the same! Thanks!
Well maybe let’s see how it holds up.
Only thing that would have help is a spiral fluted bottoming tap, rather than the straight flute bottoming tap, would have sent the chips out the back the straight flute, sends it down the hole.
Looking good man! I can tell this build has you a bit nervous. You don't trip over your words normally! Lol I can't wait to see this motor rip! From one lover of 335's to another...keep it up! Love what your doing!
Thinking more about what I’m doing than what I’m saying for once haha. Since I’m sort of breaking a lot rules here the mind is travelling at 1000mph thinking of what’s going to happen as I do this. What’s the thread going to be like as it’s torqued, what’s going to happen after it’s first heat cycle. Will the diesel bolts be too strong for the alloy block, will the bmw torque sequence stretch the diesel bolts enough and so on. Lol man it’s been a crazy week
Am keeping my fingers crossed this work Andrew. Keep the vids coming. Great work.
Definitely venturing in to new territory for the budget guys. But hey thats what i want this build to be about.
You can also use a roltap in aluminium engines it doesn't cut away material but rols it, making the threads stronger then cutted ones if you ran into pulling the oem threads
Love the attention to detail and no rushing makes for a professional job. I've timeserted an M54 block which held great for 6 months but I now have a loose bolt in the middle cylinder that won't torque down. I can't remove it either as it jsut spins and spins. Any idea how I can get the bolt out that just spins and spins with a timesert in place ? I'm not sure if it's the timesert spinning in the block when I turn the bolt ? If only I'd seen this video before I re-built the engine :(
Well done mate, guessing the head and head gasket are 12mm so will all line up? Also test the 9mm bolt to failure then you know how much you can go as the 80nm that u want might be were it snaps/pulls the threads
I hope will work. All engines have a sequence of fitting bolts. This prevent bending a head. Hope your head gasket will survive that
Great job Andrew I would have crapped myself when the bolts slipped
Oh i did, i did many craps.
Awesome work !!! Yew
Thanks!!
Farther than I'd go for power out of my N54 powered E90, but super cool! Thank you for posting
Glad you liked it! Man its all learning!
When I use brake cleaner it dries out the threads and causes it to bind. Must oil bolts and hole before install
I’m proud of you, because now you’ve become a so called “expert”.
"great success!"
Dude you have balls of steel! Home Engineering 101, who needs a Jig... You are meant to tap threads a certain way but meh... Kudos dude. With my luck this would have failed on the first go, and somehow spun a rod bearing as well :)
Either ballys or stupidty, we'll see if it works and lets me torque them down soon. How is your car going?
@@ZeroTo60Tube Engine in and is running, however they are now replacing the Vanos solenoids - here is hoping as its been well over a year now...
Errmmm, looking at the bend in your torque wrench, you may have a problem with it. A simple angle meter that passes through a socket on a breaker bar gives more accurate readings, as long as you have it as close to the head as possible, because it eliminates any twist in the tools themselves.
ARP studs will only pull out if the studs themselves are not a) torqued properly, and b) there is no Locktite on them. The nuts used provide more clamping force than you think you need when torqued properly, people who have issues with head bolts pulling out (or even ARP studs) haven't followed the proper procedure to install them.
If we want to drill and tap the 4 corner ones to work on stock n54 11mm ones will that work.?
Can you please help me on service repair manual for 2012 bmw 335i. Thank you in advance
What was the part number/ model that these head bolts go to? i might just do this same upgrade on my m54b30 however i wont have the same issue you seem to be having going from m10 to m12 ill have plenty of metal to form threads with. If i can get this to work ill probably make a 3d printable drill guide.
Elring , I like with great success
What are the torque specs for the engine ?
I hope those were Bunnings Craftright drill bits and taps to match the budget build 😛
FYI, the first couple threads take the majority of the load. (the top threads in a block for example)
Thats why the top of the block holes is not threaded in many OEM applications, to mitigate block deck distortion at the bolts.
That makes sense. What are your thoughts on drilling down to get a better hold on the bolts. I didn't do it with this one, but was close to.
@@ZeroTo60Tube I don't think it's a bad idea per say, but just not sure it's needed. How much threads are there in the block?
About 25mm standard. However it’s definitely an issue with people pulling threads.
Just thinking down the track. I think it’s easier to drill deeper myself than drill out for a helicoil or time sert. Not easier, but safet
@@ZeroTo60Tube That amount should be good, but longer would add safety off course :)
As a rule of thumb you need twice the bolt diameter in aluminium for the bolt to be ok.
So the M9 need 18 mm threads depth in the aluminium block + the untreaded height in the hole.
The M12 need 24 mm threads depth in the aluminium block + the untreaded height in the hole.
The original head bolts are stretch bolts and is only meant to be used once.
When you tightens them full up, the bolt is inside it's recommended "work area".
If you tightens it further the danger is that the bolt go outside it's area and stretches more than
it's meant to, the result is once outside it yields and give you less clamping force.
A final item, you run a risk of the bolt snapping.
There's a product called "tap magic" and it's unbelievably good. There also an aluminium version. You will think its magic it's so good.
This sounds like a shamwow commercial...lol
What a cliffhanger man haha
What’s the part for these 😊
Dude seeing u using a tq wrench instead of a breaker bar made me cringe! Reminds me of what my former teacher used to tell me "don't f$@k up my tq wrench! Use a breaker u idiot!" After snap on told me tq wrenches are really made to only take pressure in direction. Iotw use a breaker bar. Great vid dude!!
I need to know the force on the bolts to release them. Part of working out how far to take the 12mm bolts. Also to see which ones has properly torqued down. Also these snap on wrenches use a load cell. Very different tech to the old click wrenches.
Just wondering if there's enough meat to tap M12x1.5 in an already tapped M11x1.5??
The drill size for M12x1.5 is like 10.7mm.
Thats the risk. You need to line the threads up.
Is your block magnesium or aluminum. Also are the original BMW head bolts aluminum or steel ?
Just thinking about galvanic reaction between the head bolts and the block.
Aluminum block, steel head bolts.
Great video as always. My E60 has turned into a daily commuter now and I’m tossing up between a late model E92 with DCT or a newer M135. My heart says N54, my head says N55. I’m torn. (First world problems)
Ohhhhh tough one. The N55 are a nice package, fairly reliable, with out the niggles you get with an N54. However youll still do water pumps, sump gaskets, rocker gaskets etc. The ZF8 is brilliant in the m135i. The real decider is how quick do you wanna go. N54 wins every time when it comes to making power. If you can squeez in to a DCT n54, you will never look back and probabaly never loose any money. The motors are becoming rare, the DCTs are in more demand than they ever should be due to retro fits from HTG and DKGECU. N54, just buy the N54 :P....... im not biased at all obviously
@@ZeroTo60Tube that was my rationale for the E92 also. I’ll convince the accountant that it’s an investment haha.
@@ZeroTo60Tube how do you rate the dct compared to the 8HP?
@@ZeroTo60Tube just went and drove it after driving a M140 and the decision was so easy to make. I blame your channel for my poor financial decisions. I’ve joined Team N54 😂
@@shitefinancialdecisions Hell Yeah!!! what is the spec ?
Check out the guys in the N54 racing channel and see what happened with their elring head gasket.
Why do you think that gasket failed in there car, but my earling is sweet? I have a theory want to get yours guys's mind ticking away.
@@ZeroTo60Tube not sure I’d have to watch the build process they did to see but it apparently wasn’t because the head lifted haha what’s your theory
@@ZeroTo60Tube I have a feeling they over torqued the head. He stated he torqued it to 190 ft pounds
@@heathbailey4149 i hadnt seen that, i see he went to 100ft/lbs this time. however over torquing will help the gasket, if the block holds. Over torquing generally twists the block on the crank journals.
How would this compare to 11mm head bolts? Like what many people go with
Honestly i can't say for sure.
Very scary what you are doing Andrew but I hope it all works out for you. When you said you drilled the hole out with a 12mm drill, I assume you only drilled it down to the top of the thread. Is that correct?. I measured a 12mm x 1.5 tap and it is 12.07mm in diameter so that is why it didn't easily slide into the 12mm hole. It is also recommended a 10.5-10.7mm hole is required to tap a 12mm x 1.5 thread. Do you know what the inside diameter of the OEM 11mm x 1.5 thread is?
I actually never measured the inside of the 11mm thread, I know we are playing with fire here. And if it wasn’t for the test block I wouldn’t have even dreamt of this. Just need the main block to torque up and it should be good!
Did you go arp on your engine?
@@ZeroTo60Tube No, I stuck with new OEM head bolts. There are so many mixed results and some issues from using ARP head bolts and as you say there are plenty of good results with OEM bolts that I didn't want to chance introducing a problem. Besides that, I believe there is a huge waiting period for getting a set of ARP head studs.
You must do something with the 9mm, it will be the weakest link.
Never seen stock 9mm be a problem. Only arp studs in those holes. I plan to take the 9mm beyond standard torque values, so there will be more clamping load there than normal but not as much as ARP. However it is what is. We will see how it lasts. I do have another option for the 9mm, but i don't think it's needed. Obviously had a lot of messages and comments on the build. All of the ones that lift the heads are ARP fitted blocks. Which is interesting. Torquing those end ones to ARP values may be the issue. The block is soft, i pressed a socket in to the block at 100nm. There isn't much meat in the block at the end holes. First theory is the ARP torque is an issue for a raw block. So need to time sert if putting arp studs in there. I also think the main 10 OEM bolts reach a higher torque than the ARP recommended settings. So motors that have ARP are more likely to have gasket failure around cyl 2-5 than OEM and more likely to damage or weaken the thread in the end holes. In all the builds i have looked in to, the strongest head gasket seal are the unopened factory motors. Even at 35psi the factory setup holds fine. Just wish the rods would :P
So what part # are these bolts from.
They are zd30 Nissan bolts. Part number doesn’t matter just aftermarket zd30
What’s the name of the bolts that you used?
They are zd30 diesel bolts
Andrew, does the block have a steel insert for the head bolt threads? Or are they tapped right in the aluminum? Also curious as to why we can’t (or don’t) use a non-stretch head bolt? Leave it to the Germans to find a solution to a non-existent problem. 😅
These are straight in to the alloy. A heli coil or time sert are generally regarded as a safer option. Well more corse thread biting in to the alloy, then head bolt or stud bites in to the steel insert.
Arp are non stretch. I’m in two minds about them right now after all the research I have done this week. Most head gasket failures occur with arp head studs. However the arps don’t get torqued down very much compared to stock bolts. Also the motors with arp are generally running more cyl pressure.
@@ZeroTo60Tube oh my, threaded alum is soft as butter. I would have thought BMW put steel inserts at the factory because of this. Intuitively, I would say you just made the existing threads weaker by tapping then larger (without an insert). The budget build might not be so budget if this doesn’t work. I’m worried for you, but loving the effort and research you did. 😀
Well we’ll know if the bolts torque down. I need to take these diesel bolts to higher torque values than arp so it will be a good test of the threads.
Please make sure you address the crankhub issue. Apparently, it is good to invest in a crank hub bolt capture for high hp applications like this.
I have only seen them fail when people have touched them. Factory fitted crank hubs on N54 seem ok, which was one of the main reasons this crank had to stay in the engine.
@ian trofimov How do you know they haven't been changed before on the ones you have seen? I hear about a lot of failures, then when you ask, have you had the hub off, its always a yes. To this day i haven't seen a factory fitted one fail on an N54. What do you think causes the failure out of curiosity? My understanding, unless someone is money shifting a manual, no way are there enough forces at play between the cam gears, HPFP, oil pump and crank to dislodge that friction fitment on the hub. Its fast RPM changes and the inertia of the drivetrain that lead to them spinning. The S55 and N55s have a different cam setup due to the valvetronic that coupled with DCT trans explains why its so common on those motors, or again people money shifting. But the N54 just doesn't put the crank hub through the same loads, especially autos. Ofcourse the overdriven HPFP systems do increase the load on the hub, but people really shouldn't be running those things. Please give some more insight in to your comment? Number you have seen fail vs fine, were the cars stock, were they 100% factory fitted hubs? I talk to 1000s of N54s owners through here and your experience is the polar opposite of most people in the world.
@Zero To 60 I can concure, I run BMW Rev. 3 updated crank hub on my car which is torqued slightly beyond BMW spec. and that on a 800hp crank engine with Twin Disc SMFW manual car and I occasionally do NLS kicking the car or getting wheel hop when doing burnout. No issue with the hub. My original design hub slipped twice after taking engine apart when running only 600HP and every time it happened on a gear change.
@@lightmanek yeah the updated bmw crank hub and friction disc are a must for peace of mind
How many have you seen fail? I’m trying to understand if you have a couple of cars that are stuck in your mind or your cars are just a very unlucky bunch.
So again, how many “stock” autos have you retimed due to the crank hub slipping?
Where have you been brother? You gonna make some videos of the single turbo JMC turbo car? I wanna see that car run & see how it goes! I’m ordering a Speedtech kit soon, probably in the next few weeks? I’m gonna run a 6466. Anyway we miss ya man…..🙋🏻♂️🏁
Hey man there is some stuff going down. which is why everythig changed. www.spoolstreet.com/threads/zero-to-60-youtube-channel-got-raided-by-the-australian-police.8531/
@@ZeroTo60Tube That doesn’t make sense, they grabbed your laptop for speeding❓There’s plenty of guys in Australia that have big blown hot rod drag cars, burn out cars & all kinds of shit. I mean I understand the place you were living at got sold, but the cops, that’s fuc*ed❓❓❓
@@ZeroTo60Tube Ok I just read the entire thread. Damn what a bunch of assholes the cops are! Be easier to move to the states & visit friends & family on the holidays lol. I hope everything works out, what do they really have, I’ve only seen you going fast on the track, hell you don’t even swear on your videos. They don’t think when they do sh**! If they sit & went through your laptop they’d see you’re a good guy that’s just trying to live life doing something you enjoy! Your videos never hurt anyone. Hang in there Andrew & keep us posted….💪🏻🏁
@@ZeroTo60Tube I became a member today….✌🏻🏁
dude thank you! we'll be back once that drama is finalised@@murk1352
Do you put hpr10 in your n54s?
Nah, i have done, i prefer it to the recommended oil, but generally run 10w60 in the fast ones.
@@ZeroTo60Tube so the 10w50 might be good if you're kinda fast 🤣🤣
Well interestingly Penrite recommend 5w40 for the N54s in good nick. My thinking is a motor with 200,000ks on it probably got a bit of wear and will benefit from some thicker oil. HPR10 still fully syn, and good oil. But i like the 10w60 when you are pushing them breaking point, just less chance of breaking through the oil on the rod bearings under high load. But just a theory. Frequent oil changes are probably more important than using the best oil.
🤞🤞🤞🤞
I'm seriously thinking about doing exactly the same thing... since all this time have you had any problems with this?
Yes.... the head gasket failed.
@@ZeroTo60Tube That's bad... do you have any idea how I failed? Could you recommend something to avoid it? Thank you very much for your answer (we miss your n54 content on the channel)
apparantly a few people all had issues with elring head gaskets around the 700hp mark. Other replaced with OEM and problem was fixed. I didnt get that chance.
@@josesebastianpinto762
Perfect. The engine is still disassembled and I am waiting for some spare parts to arrive. I will try to buy the original gasket since I was going to use ELRING... I have gotten the zd30 bolts tomorrow I will drill the block. I will try to use the OEM 11mm bolts for the 4 small ones . thank you so much . I hope you're well. greetings@@ZeroTo60Tube
finally I used genuine head gasket and victor rainz studs... and the gasket did not resist more than 25 psi... 621 whp dynojet jsrtuning. I am considering buying athena cut ring and arp studs 11mm full set. Any recommendation? . Thnks !
Cutting that thread looked too easy. I'd expect more cutting resistance from a 12mm tap. I hope it will hold...
Well its not like im planning to torque these to higher values than arp studs or anything....... ohhhhh wait... :S that being said the alloy in the block is quite soft. The fact i am just going over the 11mm threads already means its not like a full normal cut.
N54 racing channel had an elring head gasket blow out on them. I don't know if I would trust it...
The elring i used in the e92 motor has been sweet, so i am wondering what is at play with why they had a failure so quickly.
@@ZeroTo60Tube they swear up and down that it wasn't head lift. It broke into a coolant passage. I think they over torqued the head bolts as well. I'll probably see them at Texas 2K in a week or so... That'll be fun!
Well i plan on doing these studs up more than they have done theirs. We will see if the threads pull on the 12mm..... My theory the more clamping force on the gasket the better chance it will have.
@@ZeroTo60Tube sounds like a good plan to me!
Watch the N54 racing channel. Their head gasket failed rather quickly. I believe it was a El ring
The elring i used in the e92 motor has been sweet, so i am wondering what is at play with why they had a failure so quickly.
I guess we watch the same channels... Lol and I only have an N55 🤣🤣🤣
@@ZeroTo60Tube Elring and Victor Reinz are both manufacturers here in germany. Both have a very good reputation and make fine products. But from what i see at least here in germany is that Victor Reinz is slightly preferred here over Elring.
The damage of the Elring on the N54 racing channel looked weird to me and there is always the chance of a pre damage due to mistakes during handling. But on the other hand they don´t seem to be talking out of their arses over at the other channel.
Not my engine. Why am I so scared? 🙂
When you’re building high horse power boosted applications you get rid of bolts & use studs with nuts! Standard sz ARP studs with nuts would of been more than enough! ✌🏻🏁