Bordeaux Wine Basics - 3rd Growth Wines
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- There were originally 14 Third Growth wines in the 1855 Classification system but Boyd has split into 2 wineries (Cantenac Brown & Boyd Cantenac) and Chateau Dubignon ceased to exist around 1870 when it was absorbed into Chateau Malescot St. Exupery so now there are still 14 Third Growth wines. They are (in order of listing in 1855, based on price per barrel):
Chateau Kirwan (Margaux)
Chateau D'Issan (Margaux)
Chateau Lagrange (St. Julien)
Chateau Langoa Barton (St. Julien)
Chateau Giscours (Margaux)
Chateau Malescot St. Exupery (Margaux)
Chateau Cantenac Brown (Margaux)
Chateau Boyd Cantenac (Margaux)
Chateau Palmer (Margaux)
Chateau La Lagune (Haut Medoc)
Chateau Desmiral (Margaux)
Chateau Dubignon (Margaux) - defunct. Absorbed into Malescot St. Exupery
Chateau Calon Segur (St. Estephe)
Chateau Ferriere (Margaux)
Chateau Marquis D'Alesme Becker (Margaux)
Just to be clear, if we are judging the wine based on reputation and price per bottle (which is the original criteria of the 1855 Classification System), probably only Palmer and perhaps Calon Segur, Kirwan and La Lagune would meet that criteria.
I think Palmer is definitely what people expect from a 3rd growth and is probably comparable to a lot of 2nd growths in terms of consistency and quality. Of the other wines, my favorites in terms of quality are Malescot St. Exupery, La Lagune, Calon Segur and Marquis D'Alesme Becker. Wines that I think are at or quite close to 3rd growth quality and consistency are Kirwan, D'Issan, Lagrange, Langoa Barton, Giscours. Wines that I do not think many people would think of as 3rd growth quality or consistency would be Cantenac Brown, Boyd Cantenac, Desmiral and Ferriere.
I think you can find value in a lot of the Margaux 3rd growths, particularly Malescot St. Exupery and Marquis D'Alesme Becker. If Kirwan, D'Issan and Giscours can get on track, those could also provide great value (I haven't tried them for years).
Has anyone ever had Chateau Desmiral? Love to know what is it like.
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Another great video. I really, really love this series. I never heard anyone speak so down on Calon-Ségur before haha. I believe d'Issan, Malscot, and Langoa Barton (in that order) are the best bang for your buck...and yes Palmer is head and shoulders above everyone else.
For your voting, I am going to vote for Langoa Barton...in honor of the late Anthony Barton, who just passed this week. Cheers!
SC 34: for many years, I bought into the "heart" of Calon Segur but it really is an ordinary 3rd growth, in my opinion. Very sad about Mr. Barton...I think he was just starting to get props for his quality and his wineries were starting to get some limelight so this is a definitely a setback. Cheers!
Hi! Nice videos! Château Dubignon was originally part of the 1855 classification, but got absorbed by Château Malescot-St. Exupéry.
Rafael: yes, you are correct. Cheers!
I'm a sommelier by profession, i really like all of your videos 🥂
Ranbir: thank you for viewing my video and your kind comment! I don't think I have the breadth of knowledge of most somms but in specific wine regions, I think I have pretty good tasting experience so I try to share my thoughts and hopefully it is useful to some people. Please like, subscribe and keep watching. Cheers!
@@TrophyWineHunter 🥂
No need to apologize if you are negative on a particular brand/winery, i want to hear the truth based on your opinion/experience. If i want to hear a "tout", i will watch other youtubers. Keep on trucking and thanks for the honest opinions. If people don't like it then they can watch someone else.
Charles: thank you for viewing my video and your comment. It is my personal opinion and everyone can have an opinion. I think my opinion is based a lot of drinking experience....more than most consumers and probably on par with a lot of wine experts, particularly at the Trophy Wine level.
That is the fun about wines...we can debate back and forth about which wine is better but really, there is no right or wrong answer....just personal preference. Please like and keep watching! Cheers!
Just started watching and love your videos. Do you mind sharing some good places to buy some of these wines online?
Elliott: Thank you for your kind words. I am in Canada so online option are limited as I can't order from the states. I do buy at auction with HDH wine, who I trust with respect to their provenance. I never like to buy wine unless I know the source. Please like, subscribe and keep watching. Cheers!
Hey Trophy, would you go for 2009 La Lagune or 2015 Domaine du Chevalier with the former being 8 bucks more expensive?
kairo: tough one...I like both and both are great vintages. I think Domaine is a better state that La Lagune at this time so probably opt for the 2015. If you are drinking now, I would go for the La Lagune. Cheers!
I really enjoyed the video. Thanks for sharing it!
Glad you enjoyed it and thank you for your continued support. Cheers!
This video convinced me to pickup 2019 Kirwan that randomly dropped at local lcbo for $73 Cheers
Johnhy99: thank you for viewing my video. Go for it! Good price. Please like, subscribe and keep watching. Cheers!
I voted for Cantenac Brown. I see it quite often at Total Wine and I’d be curious to hear your thoughts.
doublewides: thanks for your continued support. Cantenac Brown does get a lot of love. Does have an exciting name and nothing really stunning about the wine. Like many of these wineries, need a push/trigger to elevate their game. Cheers!
Loving this series! A suggestion would be to do a similar type of series on Italian wines. As someone whos been new to wine, i have found figuring out Italian wines is a lot harder than french.
Zach: thank you for viewing my video and your comment. To be honest, I do not believe I have the knowledge or expertise to do a series on Italian wines. I feel pretty comfortable with Bordeaux as that is a region I drink a lot of and perhaps even Burgundy but I don't want to be overreaching and giving out less than accurate information
There are many great UA-cam channels with lots of basic knowledge about wine so I don't want to repeat what they are doing. One that I follow is Wine with Jimmy, who is very clear about each region.
Having said that, I did a video on Chianti & Brunello - clearing up the confusion that you might enjoy.
I am just trying to discover my niche in the UA-cam wine world. I think what I do best is give background/history about wines to a depth that many other channels do not. I also give practical drinking advice based on my experience, particularly with Trophy wines and with older vintages.
Please like, subscribe and keep watching! Cheers!
D'issan has been on a roll for awhile now.
Jeff: thank you for viewing my video and your comment. A few viewers have already said D'Issan is great and by the poll results, it will probably be either D'Issan or Langoa Barton. Both would be exciting to try. Please like, subscribe and keep watching. Cheers!
When we can expect reviews or 4th and 5th Growths?
Prices of these wines are too expensive for me. I am $100 or less buyer.
Like always - video with great information.
Keep rolling :)
Wojtek: thank you for viewing my video and your comment. I thought I would take a break as I was worried I was doing too many Bordeaux videos but will probably film the 4th growth video sometime this month to be released in April. Cheers!
The mark up in the US is insane. I live in Belgium and can buy Kirwan for 55 EURO (+-60USD).
fvrs3411: yup...B.C., has high alcohol tax...but we have beautiful weather! Cheers!
Im drinking a 2010 langoa barton just now, balanced, a little thin
Jamie: thanks for the info. You might want to wait a few years...2010 I find still not at this peak so it could be just going through a weird phase. Cheers!
Great video! Had the Langoa Barton 2004 a few months ago and it was, I think I am using the term correctly now, quite austere. Did not give much even with hours and hours of air. Weak bottle? I have some 2010’s which I will try some day. As for Issan I tried their second wine Blasson d’Issan 2016 last summer and it struck me as very young, very fruit forward so I will wait a few years before I try the next one. Anyway, I hope you try the Langoa Barton 2016 for your next adventure!
breathewithme: interested in your comments as that is my impression of Langoa Barton...austere and not very fruit generous but again, you have to constantly taste wines and not just rely on tasting notes done 5 years ago as a wine or winery can change a lot in 5 years.
2004 is not a strong so I can't imagine you would need to hold it any longer so perhaps that is the character of the wine.
Cheers!
Langoa was quite austere, but has improved a lot, without loss of class and heritage. The 2016, 2018 and 2019 are superb. More fruit, more open and fresh, yet still classy and très Barton.
i have all these wines and exupery is superb
Joe: nice! Please like, subscribe and keep watching. Cheers!
You need to be upgraded on your wines the most recent vintages 2018 and 2019 of Calon are off the Charts
Robert: thank you for viewing my channel and your comments. I agree with your comment in part.
Firstly, I did not taste the 2018 and 2019 vintages en primeur and have limited tastings of the 2018 vintage. What I have tasted of the 2018 has been very good across the board so I would not be surprised if Calon Segur made some exceptional wines in both 2018 and 2019 years. The 2019 was priced exceptionally well (due to COVID) so will definitely produce good quality to value ratios.
Not sure if you are basing your opinion on actual tastings or just reading wine ratings. Either way, I would caution about judgment so early about wines. Even with the best wine critics, scoring en primeur is like taking a draft pick out of college football. It takes years and in terms of wines, almost 20 years to actually figure out if the wine is historically a great vintage. A classic example is the 88 ad 89 vintages, which are only now starting to blossom and really show as an exceptional vintage. Most people, 10 years back would have taken the 82 vintage over either 88 or 89 but today, most 82s on are the decline and I would argue now that 88 and 89 are in the same league as 82 in terms of quality.
My views are my personal opinions so I am not surprised people don't agree with all my opinions. From my perspective, even if 18 and 19 were great vintages for Calon Segur, that is only 2 vintages. Let's see where they are trending in the next 10 years. From my perspective, I have not seen any changes in the winery that would give rise to a change in style or quality. So if everyone made great wines in 2018 and 2019, then that is not a great judge. The better judge is what did Calon Segur do in 2007, 2011 or 2017. If they made stunning wines in those difficult vintages, that would peak my interest. Just based on my own experience with Calon over the last 15 years, I have found that they can make some really exceptional wines but not on a consistent basis. Calon is great wine and I would love to love it more because the story is so great but many of the vintages I have tasted are just OK and not surprising me on the upside.
Just my views but would love to hear your views on why you think my opinion is incorrect. Please like, subscribe and keep watching! Cheers!
@@TrophyWineHunter Thanks for replying back. I have tried the 2018's Marquis de Calon, Capbern, Meyney Ormes de Pez under $38. The people at Calon has done wonders with 2nd wine Marquis de Calon and Capbern and supposedly 2019 Capbern is even better. Another description of phenolic ripeness, which makes sense is ‘physiological ripeness’. For me phenolic ripeness is the precise moment when all the important elements of acidity, sweet ripeness and tannins are in perfect balance.
My first year tasting Bordeaux was 1989 and i experienced this right away, my 1st wine was the 89 Lynch Bages, then some lower end stuff Tronqoy Lalande st Estephe, Meyney, etc then i tried a 88' Calon Segur and i agree with you it did not sing have ripeness, depth, etc 1989 was followed by 1990 so i thought every vintage was like them. I never had one bottle of 1982. In my early days i got to have Cantemerle, Pichon Baron, GPL, Leoville Poyferre, and Barton, Lagrange, it is easy to tell the difference in Phenolic Ripeness of the grapes in vintages. Also the last wine Château Marquis-d'Alesme 2019 i have 5 bottles coming and it is rated as high as 96pts at $40 a bottle i will have to let you know how it is when i get it and try it.
I appreciate your history going thru the 1855 classification, i did read about one of the 1st growths owner in Pauillac Heart was in Calon. Really ripe years St Estephe is very bold and some of the wines are very reasonable.
@@robertfenti3996 great to know your experiences with the wine. I think Marquis D'Alesme and Malescot are really coming back in a big way. I bought Marquis D'Alesme 2018 and waiting for a few more years before I try it.
If you like "Phenolic Ripeness" then I think you will like the modern style of Bordeaux more. Older vintages were really backward. But also be aware that 2018 and 2019 will taste very vibrant for the first little while (like 9 months after release) and then close down and remain quite dormant for, in Calon's situation, 8-10 years.
I still think Calon has more to offer and my sense is that they are right now not at the top of their game but just keeping a baseline of decent quality. Cheers!
great video
thank you. Please watch the rest of my Bordeaux Basic series. I have done up to 4th Growth wines for now. Cheers!
I had difficulties to find a bottle of Château Desmirail here in Brazil too, but I finally find it. A very okay wine…nothing very special.
grigorhaig: thanks for sharing your experience. That is what I thought...there are quite a few 3-5 growths that I would drink just for the sake of trying but I don't think they are really special. Not sure if those wineries will ever change as they are normally in family hands and if the family is happy with keeping the winery status quo, there is no reason to change. Cheers!
D’issan is great. The 2009 and the 2018.
Oscar: thank you for viewing my channel and your comment. It is neck and neck with Langoa Barton so looks like I will try one of them! Please register your vote on my community page. Please like, subscribe and keep watching. Cheers!