Why the Best Supra DOESN'T USE a 2JZ ENGINE
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- Опубліковано 6 лис 2023
- You and I know the Toyota 2JZ-GTE as one of the most legendary tuner engines of all time, powering one of the most iconic cars of all time, the MK4 Toyota Supra.
But what if I told you the best Supra ever, doesn't even use a 2JZ engine, but rather a little 2.0L four-cylinder.
It sounds crazy, but it's true. And in this video I'm going to tell you why.
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It's all about that throttle response and weight distribution, really wish tuner culture would wisen up to that, and realize straight-line performance isn't everything.
Tuner culture knows that for more than 100 years
a straight six will have the same throttle response. it's the lag that sucks
But 1,500hp on stuck internals BRA
@@IIGrayfoxIIthey take about 600 safely before you have to build out the bottom end
@@ciancunningham2157 I was acting more like a typical fanboi.
I find it funny when people say the 3SGTE is nothing special, it's actually one of the most underrated 4 cylinders of all time. Absolutely.
Best 4 banger toyota ever made and im pretty sure its the only engine ever built by toyota for the expressed purpose of professional racing.
They don't know their shit if they say that
@@CelicAWD4age would like a word
@@Ae86Apexi the 4ag is good, yes, but its overhyped. Even the 20v version could have been better. And while it was used for racing, it was a street engine first. The 3sgte was built for pro rallying homologation purposes.
@@CelicAWD of course the Celica AWD account is gonna say that. I like touge. 4age may not make the same power but considering it's a 40 year old platform it's still incredibly reliable and the last big Yamaha motor that absolutely made good passes. I'm a ae111 fan and I love the 3sgte, but 4age will always be Yamaha/Toyotas crowning achievement.
You bring up the fact that it was built for racing like that helps the argument. The fact that the 20v wasn't a race motor dropped in a street car makes it much more impressive then a motor built for the purpose of racing succeeding. Different strokes
The Toyota Sard Supra also raced with 2.0 4 cylinder 3-S GTE engine at the 1995/1996 24 hours of Lemans as well- weight and reliability is everything there
Thank you .
la MR2 a aussi participé au 24h du man, mais avec le V8 de la lexus LS400
ce qui me faire beacoup rire, ma voiture et mon moteur on fait les 24h, mais pas ensemble 🤣
So, is that the same block as the Celica GT Four had, or not ? Thanks.
@@bustjanzupan1074 it might be- but it’s more similar probably to a variation of the MR2 Turbo black- they have been known to generate insane amounts of power in the neighborhood of 700+
@@JoseSantiago-hv3xm Thanks. So, the MR2 and the GT Four does not have the same block ?
Later versions of the Mk4 Supra GT500 switched over to a V8 engine instead of using the 2JZ, because they needed more torque. That means no JGTC Mk4 Supra ever made use of the 2JZ engine. Indeed, truth is stranger than fiction.
A 1uz?
@@jacksin3323 3uz
@@Payday5 oh wow! I really almost bought a scrapyard 3uz for my swap too. I shoulda.
The 2jz is the one everyone fan boys over, But the 3S is the one that actually put the work in.
I mean, it did but the reason why the fanboys love the supra in the first place was because of bonkers horsepower output from the 2j.
@@kilotiger7780 Oh yeah for sure.
@@spirovarelis9637While I can agree to some extent due to these cringy Supra JDM scene from tiktok and overhyping the 2JZ, there's some of us who just love the sound of boosted Inline Sixes while acknowledging and respecting the capability of engines like the 3SGTE and Honda K series
@@spirovarelis9637In the end, we all ain't shit without boost, but that's silly to say because the 3S and 2J were both overbuilt and designed specifically for turbo applications, right?
Put the work in exactly where? in Japan sure, but do you not realize the work the 2JZ put in for the drag racing scene for imports in America and around the world. It's single handedly put import racing on the map.
The 3S Line up to the 3S-GTE was never given a chance at both build and tuning by some critics who had the chance to mess with these engines.. they bash these engines before they even knew what these engines are capable of. Built from the bottom up these engines could put out some serious hp with torque to match whatever hp being put out. I owned one so I'm speaking from experience 538hp with 525 torque at wheels. This engine pulls like crazy up top. I'd love to see these engines being experimented with more.🔥
I’ve been tuning 3S-GTE nearly my whole life at this point, three of them out in my garage right now. It’s baffling to me that people don’t get it. Line up a 3S and a 2JZ and tell me what the differences are aside from the cylinder count. There aren’t many. I’d like a spline on my 3S oil pump drive like my 1JZ has but that’s about the sum of it.
@negativeindustrial i need to tune my 3sgte on A Megasquirt2 if you are interested i need a tuner😢
its better if they didnt know it. so i can buy it at cheap price
Yeah no thanks. Keep the prices on the 2jz. I'm already seeing the GT4 celica go up in price and catch the eyes of the fanboy clout chasers
@@dylansandoval9841 yup fuck that noise, let everyone fan boy on the supra & 2jz...gt4's and 3s havnt sky rocketed in price compared to the other "hero" cars....they have gone up but not nearly as much
What’s crazy is that this comes out after I start researching the 3S
“Imma need you to drag this video out to nine minutes when you can just say ‘the 2JZ weighs too much to be competitive…”
“Say no more fam!”
This is the same reason why Nissan used a V6 in some of their racing skylines, and eventually switched to a V6 wholesale when it came to making the R35 GTR. The V6 engine layout is SOOOOO ridiculously slept on that it's not even funny. It has, singlehandedly, the best power density by size and the shortest specific length per displacement, providing the best vehicle balance and cabin space gains regardless of where it's placed. A V8 comes close, but at the displacements that'd be used with forced induction (and still have a drivable car), all you're gaining is reliability from a (possibly) shorter stroke.
You can safely have up to 8000-9000rpm in a 4.5L V6 using a 103mm bore and 90mm stroke, and it'll STILL be a shorter engine than even the 86mm bore 1UZ. With other engine design factors optimized, you can safely make 200lb-ft per liter of displacement at the crank with a fairly responsive turbo on E85 (2.5x the usual N/A limit on pump gas and street compression). That's 900 lb-ft of torque. And if peak power is at 7000 with a redline of 8000 (and we assume the 5252 cross and blah blah blah), then you should be looking at 1200hp at the crank.
And if it's made with a closed deck aluminum block, even with DOHC, this whole engine should still weigh in the low-mid-400-pound range for the long block (meaning fully assembled but without the accessory drive and turbo/turbos). If we use a 1.2x drivetrain loss factor(auto 2WD or manual AWD), it's still 1000whp and 750 ft-lbs of torque.
Genuine question.... which racing Skyline has a V6?
@@s13180sxSR20DET A VQ30DETT powered R34 competed in JGTC's GT500 class in 2003. This is after a front-mid engine V6 TT was canceled during the design of the R34 Skyline. So yeah, the R34 was almost the proto R35, but it ended up getting canned because they'd have to open a new production line/plant for the new engines, so they said F it instead and did a one-off for a season or two (or w/e) of racing in their own homeland.
And you sir are wrong I could explain but it's to much to explain the v6 engine is one of the most imbalanced engines in existence
@@tobywilliam3538 Then build it like a busso. But there's no way you can tell me a V6 is worse than an inline 3, 4, or 5. Like I said, it's the most compact and power dense (for it's physical size and displacement ranges) piston engine design. That's the main upside. Followed by being simpler than a V8 or bigger.
the vr6 is another good example of this.
I built a 3s gte in high school with my buddies to put in my 82 pickup but one of their dads ended up begging me to sell it to them for their celica and I did stupidly for 300$ and a couple cartons of Marlboro reds ugh youth mistakes my dad worked for the biggest Toyota parts department in the country and he was very upset with me
Yeah you’re goofy for that one
I would not make that mistake.
I'm staying with my 2jz engines and parts till I die....😂
I mean to be fair it went to a good cause😅
Damn bro, do you at least talk to that friend dad ?
The later GT500 supras used a N/A v8. Lots of teams went to N/A engines for throttle responses and reliability
@6:00 a 50:70 weight split would be incredibly tricky to manage. Lol
The best testament to the 3sgte is just how many mk2 mr2 turbos with that engine still exist! Those cars didn’t even sell that well (something around 30k of them in a 5 year run in the US) and yet 30 years later, even with rust and the fact that they were likely to get abused and crashed, there are still something like 6 thousand of those running
i put on a bigger turbo on my original 3sgte. went to multiple trackdays. cranked up the boost to 15psi with a stock intercooler. blew the graphite head gasket.
that was 4 years ago. i finally gave it a rest this year after trying to send it to the moon with 20psi and a 600 mi road trip. nope. still drove til i removed it 😅
I know I'm in the minority but the 2JZ-GTE is overrated. I'm not talking about "potential" or videogame memories, it's INCREDIBLY expensive to build. For the price of just pistons for a 2JZ-GTE, you can find any older domestic V8 and build it twice as much for half as cheap. 1000hp sounds cool until you realize guys have been pulling that out of dogfart 2v 4.6's for years now.
It became really expensive in the last couple of years. If I remember correctly, 5or6 years ago you could have bought a 2jz gte vvti in good condition for just 2000usd, now it's more than 6000usd and it's recommended to be rebuilt because how old it is and it's possible previous abuse
To summarize, the 2JZ is just too big and too heavy.
Inline 6 engines in general aren't the best race engines because they take up too much space which means you can't mount them as low and deep into the chassis as a more compact i4, V4, V6 or V8. In cars like the M4 GT3 this doesn't matter as much because of GT3 rules but Super GT has always been home to some comically lax rules hence the MR LMP1 V8 powered Prius.
Mid engine cars suffer the most because now you have less space for your diffuser or ground effect tunnels which is bad for aero. Flat engines cause the same issue which is why Porsche ran a V4 in the 919 instead of an H4.
it would be cool if they could fit it transversely :)
Since the Supra's class was limited to 500hp, they didn't NEED the 2J to make the power. The 3SGTE based engine easily made 500hp
They can actually produce far more than that (650-750hp).
The same engine inside the AAR Eagle mk.III which dominates IMSA back then uses an engine that came from the 3S family of engines.
BMW did something similar with their 1400HP F1 engine. It was based on an ancient M10. The engineering department deliberately used well worn engines with high mileage and placed the blocks outside in the elements. The idea was having an engine block that's almost free of any casting stress. These blocks were able to take the massive amounts of boost.
Alfa also used an ancient PRV V6 for their latest iterations of the infamous 155 DTM.
Outside of the fact Alfa Romeo used their own V6, the Busso, and not the PRV one, which has French and some Swedish roots (PRV for Peugeot Renault Volvo), you are right
@@oscaraurelio8869 Look it up. They ditched the Busso after three years because the 60° V6 was not optimal for power. 90° is what you want. They thought about a cut V8 from the Montreal but in the end went for a heavily modified PRV block.
Bmw also put a smaller engine in the homologation special e30 M3 vs the m20 for better weight distribution. It's technically a front mid engine car. The s14 motor in that car also is related to that m10 based and m12/f2 engine.
What you have to remember is the JGTCC limited power levels to 480 BHP (360 kW) for the GT500 class, the 503E was based on Toyota's 2.1 800 BHP (600 kW) GTP engine and was reliable as the sunrise and MORE than capable of producing GT500 power levels with less weight on the nose. Nissan's advantage was the GTR simple a bigger car with a wider track than the Supra so it could afford to use a larger, heavier engine and still handle very well. I remember watching the races and you could see how much faster and stable the Nissan's were through the corners.
the 3sgte or technically the e503 was the more proven Toyota race engine that is actually why it was used they ran the e503 also used in Eagle MkIII racing in IMSA GTP series where is took on group c level race cars with detuned F1 engines and it still dominated so much that it destroyed the whole series
E503 that's what it was called.
I forgot the name of it.
@@MrJamesshipman it was 503E.
3SGT not a GTE, the 3SGTE was the road going variant that derived much of its design from the 3SGT/503e engine, as did the rest of the Toyota S Engine family.
The differences between the 2.1L and 2.0L inline-4 engines of the Supra JGTC
When you think about a racing spec Supra, it is a huge possibility to think immediately the iconic JGTC/GT500 spec of it. There’s also a huge possibility to remember that they were powered by an inline-4 turbo engine, instead of the OEM/factory-based 2JZ-GTE.
But did you know that there were different versions of this 4cyl engine that powered the Supra JGTC cars?
We explain:
Back in the 80’s, there was Group C. The category grew, increasing interest from major manufacturers around the globe - and Toyota was one of them. With chassis being developed by DOME, Toyota (under Toyota Racing Development division, known by all of you as TRD) was in charge to develop a 2.1L 4cyl engine single turbocharged known as 503E, and eventually dubbed as 3S-GTM, 3S-GTE and/or just 3S-GTE. This engine also powered the monstrous AAR-built IMSA GTP cars from late 80’s and early 90’s.
With this engine being specifically developed for sports car racing and knowing the regulations subjects from JGTC, Toyota was the first official thing to take advantage in an imminent engine swap in the championship, putting the 503E in their first factory-backed Supra GT chassis entered in the mid-season of 1994.
This engine remained as it was from 1994 until 1996. The 503E (dubbed 3S-GT that moment) was also seen powering the Supra LM cars seen at the Circuit de La Sarthe during the 1995 and 1996 24h of Le Mans.
The 503E was then dropped by 1997, when Toyota developed a new engine for the all-new ‘97-spec Supra, downgrading to 2.0L (actually 1998cc of displacement), and taking base from the 3S-GTE seen in the production version and specially the Celica WRC, known as 661E, and “re-engineered” for JGTC, 20kg lighter than the 503E, becoming as 171F, the official engine of the Supra JGTC by 1997 until 1999, where it was replaced by the 244F, after slightly modifications on the whole base. Still dubbed as 3S-GTE, the 244F base remained until 2002, where it was replaced by the variable-displacements V8 NA 3UZ-FE, putting the end in the 4cyl successful stories for more than two decade
@@Realtime1501 wow.
The thing I learned most about this video is how bad ass Nissan was in the 90s 😎
Enough to get all the other teams to complain, lol
Correction, early 90's, current Nissan Motorsports suck now
@@davidchau3228 I clearly said in the 90s??? Even so I still enjoy Nisan motor sports. I know they took the Fuji Super GT last August
I love your format, to the point, no nonsense... ❤❤ subscribed!
I would like to see a comparison done on all the inline 6 engines.
Ford Barra
BMW
RB
2J
1J
And any other manufacturer's.
Stock engine price.
Parts costs. IE: Stock block, stock crank, stock cylinder head.
Engine availability.
Parts availability.
And 4200 vortec too
@@Low760 Ninja'd
There's a good video comparing many aspects of the RB vs JZ and it doesn't look good for the RB, lol.
i love these knowledge and history dumps on motors. There are so many designations and unless you own or are into tuning them , you wouldnt know. Very cool.
Please do a video on the lost dark art of Mechanical fuel injection.
Make sense. The cast iron block of the 2jz is super heavy. Super strong and can make power but for this type of racing and restrictions they are limit by how much power they can make so no point of having capped engine power and more weight.
They're not that heavy, it's more that the weight is close to the nose and GT500 class was limited to 500hp, so them trying out a turbo 4 was a better bet, but Toyota eventually ended up going with naturally aspirated V8s after a couple years.
@@sigmaprojects280kg... c'est méga lourd 😅😅
@@alkane6467 They're lighter than the RB26. When compared to even a modern inline 6 like a B58 when comparing long blocks they're actually pretty similar. Also in GT500 like every racing league they have a weight minimum. Meaning you can't just make the car as light as possible, however what you can do is move that weight around. So some cars they'll be under the weight minimum so they'll place the weights in the race car where it works best for the chassis. Same with the engine, they'd have similar weight overall if they used an inline 6 no matter what due to weight minimums, but having a 4 cylinder is better for the obvious reason of the weight being closer to the center of the car.
Great video, I learned some stuff. Well done.
Some people will never learn that bulk power from a heavy engine is not always a winning formula.
Great Video. Learned alot. 👍
I remember reading about this. From memory it was because of weight, fuel economy over the race distance and the fact the engine could be moved further back in the engine bay along with the engine had a lot of development already with their world rally program. I also seem too recall that engine bay heat was a concern with the rb26det.
3S engine is one of the most versatile engine to tune. From the screaming NA build to fire-breathing turbo and whining supercharger build, dare I say it's like the LS from Japan.
Nissan similarly had to deal with the RB26's front-heavy problem.
It was swapped for a VQ engine on the '02 and '03 R34 Skylines(GT500).
This is the V6 engine installed in the V35 Skyline.
Yes, Fred Gibson from Nissan Motorsport Australia said: "We were told we were getting a GTR [to replace the HR31 GTS-R] and the year we were getting it and *I assumed it would be a V6 engine* as straight sixes are bad for motorsport as they hang out over the front cross member and make the car front heavy." I.e., *even back in 1990* he thought inline-six engines were old-fashioned and he was expecting the new (at the time) R32 GT-R to have a V6 engine like the 300ZX.
This gives a whole new perspective on smokey nagata's top secret 4cyl supra, before this video I thought "why? Lol", but now I can see that there was an attempt at both, surpass toyota and pay homage to their heritage.
Most of the iconic cars we love raced with 4 cylinder engines, people just love the raw power of the bigger 6 cylinder engines, which I get. However, the 4 cylinder cars out drive their 6 cylinder counterparts and feel unbelievably better.
My LS MK3 Begs to differ. I've had the body since 94 and ran the life out of the 1j. When I first did the swap it would pop the windshield out when I launched it. A cage and more forgiving mounts fixed that. There's no replacement for displacement kids.
It works fine on grand tourism 2, pixels are huge but a good driving game ,it's real old school
I remember Tamiya (rc car) had a castrol paint job. I didn’t know it was that special
I honestly wanna 3SGTE swap a mk4 to make as faithful a replica of the race car as I can
with the 2JZ-GTE the castrol tom's supra would have lost
the weight distribution is not the same has nissan who build a car around that engine for racing
the philosophy of both cars is different
It was my very first endurance win in Gran Turismo 2!
Bro, respect the 3S GTE! One of the best racing engines ever made.
The jgtc supras of the 90s ran 503e race engine built by trd there were plenty versions of this engine 2.1 to 2.0
I'm pretty sure JGTC didn't see the 503E it was 3SGTE, I think only the GTP cars and the Pikes Peak cars ran 503Es
@@sigmaprojectsThe very first iteration of the 4cyl Supra GT500 in 1994/1995 uses a 503E
@@AbrahamArthemius Must have been very short run since you can see in the rest of the GT500 supras that had photos of the engine bay they had a 3S instead of a 503E. What team was it? SARD? They were one of the first to run a Supra in GT500.
@@sigmaprojects it was actually TOM'S and it was only used for a season or so.
Toyota used 503E/3S-GT 2.1L from late 1994 up to the 1995 season, then starting in '96 Toyota uses the 171F/3S-GTE 2.0L.
A tiny bit less displacement but they make up for it by being 20 kilos lighter.
@@AbrahamArthemius yea, those 503E engines are heavy. When you tear one down you can kind of understand why, they're extremely beefy. Looking back at some display photos, it does look like one museum said that SARD used a 503E one year.
2J runs rwd. RB26 drives awd. 2J's weight plus rwd reduced cornering. RB26 plus awd ATTESSA and HICAS assisted cornering. 3SGTE drove awd in the GT-4 Celicas that somewhat dominated in rally. Efficient Power-to-weight-to-handling was a major factor in deciding winners in JGTC.
fun fact: toyota's 1UZ, a 4.0L V8 engine have lighter weight than the 2JZ. 1uz is 495lbs vs 2jz's 600lbs
I addition wasn't there in GT500 a 500bhp power limit, making another point that was worthless to use a heavier engine
yea that was the limit. Toyota though eventually settled on the 4.5L UZ V8.
Btw just to clear something up a 503E was only said by Toyota to be a modified 3SGTE for marketing. Those motors share zero parts with a 3SGTE with only thing being similar is the bolt pattern for the bell housing on the block, lol. The JGTC Supra than ran a 3SGTE did run a 3SGTE. The 503E was in the cars like IMSA GTP cars or the Pike's peak car. 3SGTEs also were used in WRC. The 503E is quite different, the heads even had external water cooling. If you look at a IMSA GTP car with a 503E look above the exhaust manifold and you'll see a coolant manifold. 503Es were also slight larger motors being 2.1L.
il y a aussi eu les 661E ou les 171E plus proche du 3S-GTE de séris
so the block is not even the same?
@@kayvon_is_likes not even remotely the same. 503E was cast from something quite heavy and the water jackets and routing is very different. The material around the cylinders is quite different too. Can't swap pistons between the motors. The only thing that is the same is the bellhousing bolt pattern are interchangeable.
The 4 cylinder also has much better and smoother throttle response than the 2JZ. The 2JZ is like a sledgehammer and you really don't want that in a serious race car.
Where can i find these races you highlighted in the video?
The 2JZ is a powerful beast. But it's a HEAVY lump!!
Still remember how mind blowing it was for me when I learned that it was considerably heavier than even a Chevy LS V8!
I had a St165 (88 alltrac celica) with a 2nd gen 3sgte swap, I ended up throwing a CT26 turbo with an upgraded compressor wheel on it and ffs I was blown away by such a simple upgrade how much power it gave without a tune
Something was definitely wrong with that car though because I was getting a solid 5-8mpg and could 100% watch my gas gauge drop on the freeway
they used the smaller engine to improve handling less weight in the front means faster cornering speeds
M series inline six engines were not necessarily meant as performance engines originally. They were meant as the upscale engine for the Toyota Crown with the base engine a four cylinder. Toyota typically takes a sedan engine, then put a Yamaha designed wide angle valve DOHC with multicarburator setups to make a performance engine out of it, such as in the Toyota 2000 GT. But it's original purpose has always been more mundane. Even later 1JZ and 2JZ engines were used in Crowns, Mark IIs etc,. No surprise the chassis of the first Supras were taken off from the Crown.
Weird I was literally going through a jgtc binge lately 😅
Nice video, careful with some of the script: “group C rally racing”? 😉
Nagata's GT300 Supra also doesn't have a 2jz, has a 2.0l 4cyl
Imagine Nissan using a sr20 engine in a AWD skyline? Insane
I love how the weight percentages at the 6:00 mark dont add up to 100 LOL
also the 2jz has a power band that makes most of the power in the middle of a rev which is not really ideal in circuit racing where you're in the peak rpm most of the time
Yup. That's Primarily the nature of 2Js because Toyota made it an equally square in Bore X Stroke. The powerband is more smooth and equally distributed across the rpm range (bigger displacement just adds more low end torque) Whereas the 1JZ revs higher and produces powerband in the top end of the rev range just like Nissan RB26DETT (Undersquare stroke)
But aye! That's just the base of the engine at work. Tuning, and aftermarket parts can change many aspects of your build, now you're able to slap in high lift duration cams and adjust boost and timing to move your sh*t up to the top range of the rpm. We've come so far haven't we lol
3S-GTE is nothing special? You're fired.
3SGTE is a Motorsports beast!
While you were describing this edition, a question came to mind. When Dan Gurney's All American Racing was dominating with a tubo-charged 4 cylinder... which Japanese auto company was that Toyota or Nissan.?
Dan Gurney's GTP cars? They ran Toyota motors.
"...the 3sgte was nothing special..."
the fuck? the fact that it is still in contention for fastest mr2s against a those fast ass K swaps, at almost 40 years old, that says a lot.
they can make the power back by force induction, but its hard to cut the weight off a heavy engine
I remember driving the Supra GT500 in GT and being disappointed it didn’t sound like a 2J
GT3 (best GT ever) was the time i fell in love with that car. A lot of the cars i like are mainly because of gt3
A lot of the time the lighter the front end is the lower amount of under steer at the limits. This is why when you add an LS motor to an FD it’s level handling for road corse dramatically gets worse.
Current Super GT has litre regulations for GT500. GT300 still like JGTC
JGTC had any engine made by manufacturer with a limit on horsepower
Same reason the e30 M3 had a 2.5L S14B25, balance.
This engine is actually the TRD 503E race engine. It is only BASED on the 3S-GTE but not 3S-GTE.
The 2JZ-GTE is heavy as heck. Hence why Toyota decided to go with the 503E
Refreshing to hear an American actually consider the fact handling matters and it's not a power based dck measuring contest taking place on a dyno...
Alfa Romeo 156 WTC: 2.0 16v Twinspark.
156 GTA: V6 Busso 3.2 24v
If I ever get a Supra, I’m putting a GTE in there to troll people at meets
Wtf is on his left side? He keeps looking there lmao
The Toyota 3S-GTE is based on the 503E's design. The 3S-GT was another name for the 503E that was detuned for the Tom's Castrol Supra GT500 race car. Unlike the 3S-GTE though, the 503E/3S-GT is slightly larger displacing 2.1L.
A road legal version of the 3S- GT Supra Mk 4 would have been great for Belgium. I mean they still had the 25 % luxury tax for a displacement over 2l until 2000.
2:11 Slight Correction: GT500 is/was a category within a racing series. The ‘Japan Grand Touring Car Championship’ is today known as ‘Super GT’. Within that series there are GT300 cars and GT500 cars.
It's smaller and lighter. I've just saved you 9 minutes. You're welcome
The barra, beats, everything
During the last days of Japans GT racing days, Nissan used a v6 in their gt500 cars instead of the inline 6 engines. When their is a cap on power why not use the smaller, lighter engine with a better layout for weight distribution. I can’t remember if Toyota used a inline 6, v6 or 4 for their gt500 cars. Nissan also was not able to use awd in the series since it was made illegal after years of the gtr dominating the series with awd, all the other teams complained. At the end of the race series life, Nissan was running a gtr, a 350z and another car if I remember correctly in the gt500 class but their were all 350z’s under the body. They were running the s15 silvia in the gt350 class, I’m pretty sure they were using the sr20 but I can’t remember. Toyota ran the Supra and another model in the gt500 and got the gt350 I’m pretty sure it was a celica but rwd of course.
for more center weight distribution
toyota was so desperate to win they got banned from wrc in 1995 😵💫 the st205 is my all time favorite rally car, despite the drama that came with it
From memory a private team early on in the jgtc tried racing with the 2 jz with little sucess
honestly this is better than beating nissan with the 2j
"cmon nissan,i beat you with 2 less cylinders,what would have happened if i used my big guns?"
Did you not understand that the 2J would have never been a good racing engine? And if Toyota used it the Supra would have been absolutely beaten to the ground.
GT5? Bro I raced it in GT1! :P
“Boring cars like the Celtics and MR2”
My guy triggered a bunch of MR2 Enthusiasts just by that line lol
You should VR38 in depth detailed video
Where I come from a 4 cylinder supra is called a Celica😅
At 3:32 you made a common mistake, the engine used was the 503E engine, which is a 4 cylinder developed by Toyota as a full race endurance engine which share not a single bolt with the 3S line of engines, that same 503E engine was used on the Pikes Peak Tacoma of Rod Millen and on several other full race cars from Toyota.
en 1997, c'était le 661E utilisé en WRC basé sur le 3S-GTE de grande série
"ALL TIME..."LOL. Great video tho
Toyota's last design for a performance was the M engine. Everything after that was Yamaha designed. The S engine is a M engine in disguise. Horrible now after 30 years, I blame the fuel quality. They should have put a K engine in that Supra in 2001.
2jz is great engine buuut it's heavy AF 3S is probably the best balance when it comes to power/weight for the engine
weight reduction is the best mod for racing car
4:30 You mean group C endurance racing?
The 3S was basically the 2J just cut 2 cylinders.
Not exactly, but yes.
@@mr.cangieter8758Exactly. The 3S been around longer than the 2JZ/1JZ
That but without the vvti/vvtli as well
I like that you've mentioned power delivery and usability.
I'm not entirely sure how a smaller engine requiring more boost would deliver it better, it's true that it's important.
Peak HP isn't as telecast relevant as power range.
@@matthewnicholas6365smaller crank, less reciprocating mass and a quicker rev up time leads to a quicker turbo spool. In course races keeping in your power and and getting back to peak rpm band matters alot more than raw horses. Couple this with lighter motor more even weight distribution and better handling leads to overall better performance.
It’s technically a 503e engine which is different from a 3s but it’s similar
He said the name wrong, the 503e also went by the name “3SGT” (although there were ofc some variations on the engine overtime that were under the same umbrella), point being that it the 503e and 3SGT are for all intents and purposes the same motor, the 3SGT was later the inspiration for the 3SGTE and the rest of the S engine family, which is why my 2000 Camry 4 cylinder auto has a 5SFE with an engine block that can handle 700hp+ 😂
@@griffins750 It's further confusing because Toyota liked to play with names for marketing. The 503E shares nothing with other 3S's and no parts are interchangeable. They only were used on GTP cars. With possibly that SARD had one in their Supra, but there's only one photo that I can track down that shows a 503E. It's quite easy to tell when it's a 503E because the heads have their own cooling system with a coolant manifold above the exhaust ports.
How about the 2014 NISMO GTR GT500?
I’m assuming they had to rebuild those engines after every race. I know Indy cars get dummy performance out of 2.0L turbo fours. But RPM’s needed to get the horses requires exotic valve and timing stuff and God knows what else. Plus I know for a fact those have to be rebuilt or replaced after every race. I assume the same was true for the Toyota?
thers a guy that tuned his b48 with a larger turbo to 581hp, 600+ tq on here recently on a 330i, thats faster than a m4 csl for 110k less
they didnt base their 3S-GTE on TRD America's 503E but on TTE's Celica Group A 3S-GTE. You know, the one who was caught cheating.
apart of that pretty cool video, one can't hear enough about Castrol Tom's Supra.
Toyota said it themselves the engine was already proven and worked well in rally so they just reused them.
The RB26 is a good engine for power but it wasn't the sole reason Nissan dominated those race series. That distinction should be attributed to the all wheel drive setup of the GTR.
Lol funny cuz my shitbox project car is a small light AWD manual car with 4th gen 3SGTE. 2600lbs car with a 260hp 3SGTE. And if I tune it mildly it can go to 400-600hp engine in a 2600 lbs car. I swapped 3SFE engine in my 1st gen 2doors rav4 and replace it with 3SGTE from caldina GTT