And I can completely agree with you on the whole trap metal thing currently working on a project with 2 rappers And myself as a guitar player Literally the only metal thing about the band is me.. There's No fresh takes on mixing the 2
I'm 47 and people have complained that "music today sucks, it was better in the old days" for as long as I've been listening to music which is just over 4 decades.
Thank you. This is how I feel as well. There's always a bunch screaming that everything nowadays sucks and even though I understand why they say it, I feel sorry for them. I actually disagree with this video premise, but then again, I also understand where it comes from.
@@kinetic-cybernetic There are bad and good music epochs. They both occur simultaneously. It all just depends on who you're asking. I'm 47 and love melodic punk and pop-punk, both "obsolete" kinds of music but there's still new stuff coming out that kicks ass. Green Day, Rancid, Face To Face, Bink-182, The Offspring etc.
Exactly, most music has become recycled crap. From pop to death metal, new ideas are very few and far between. People have also become way less interested in art in general. We can clearly see that podcasts (99% of which are pure junk) have taken the place of music for many people. Why? Because it takes less effort to listen to, needs less engagement and offers "more for your money". Why listen to a 45min album that comes out once every 3 years when you can get a 2 hour serving of slop every week?
thats just not true tho. there is plenty of innovation happening in the post rock era, it just involves black people and "black people music" so the rock and metal fans hate it.
@@uoislame what is "plenty of innovation"? Sure there have been new ideas from time to time, but nothing that managed to capture people's attention. And please don't pull the race card, when black artists are pretty much at an all-time high in terms of popularity. Not everything is a racial issue.
In 2004, I wrote a thesis when I was in college about the inevitable death of rock music, being replaced with electronic, pop, and easy to produce and market music. Part of my research was going to radio stations and music stores, and having discussions with people who were heavy into the scene at the time. Mostly, I was dismissed for my ideas that I was presenting, but each and every time they were pointing to the past, and could never see a path forward. I'm a bit sad that what I was seeing at the time has come true.
People tend to be pretty bad at seeing the future, and, as you said, (in different words), tend to look to what has been as a predictor of what will come.
I was friends with a guy in high school in the 80s and he had the same theory about the death of the guitar (he thought the synth-based new wave of the early-mid 80s would kill it). Then thrash metal hit. Then the Seattle scene killed hair metal. Then the 90s was one of the biggest decades ever for guitar rock. Point is, you can’t predict the future.
I think right now we are at cultural impasse. It is not just rock/metal that is out of steam. The pop and hiphop guys started complaining that it has all become repetitive and uninspired as well. And it is not limited to music. Cinema is essentially dead, and TV-Streaming Series are also on their last breaths. Evening apparat from the one or two titles per year that surprise successes but some more or less industry outsides (sorry From Soft, but you know what i mean) the gaming crowd is not happy either. I don't really pay much attention to current literature but i would not be shocked if it was similar there. What we are experiencing is that cultural production (it is no longer art) has been min-maxed so much for attention (and thereby monetary success in the short run), that it became bland and uninteresting to most. Unless you really actively look out for it, where is the truly groundbreaking stuff in art. To be sure, great stuff still exists (probably more than ever), but you have to dig deep for yourself.
I think people should just enjoy stuff rather than trying to look for what's groundbreaking all the time,this is how people all over the world enjoy folk music and culture,you just need more human connections.
Exactly. People get hung up on genres or forms of entertainment, but the medium itself is fundamentally maxed out. Same goes for cinema imo, though I reckon gaming has a bit more potential still in theory.
At this point if I hear somebody say 'modern rock and metal is dead/boring' I just assume there's nothing they're listening to outside of the MEGA big name bands. Plenty of great stuff out there, just gotta go looking for it.
Yeah, that's what I keep hearing. Here's the thing. Most people have jobs and don't have time or patience to sift through servers full of uncurated music. I sure don't. If this awesome music really exists, there would be some organized way to curate it and get it to the masses. I tried listening to Spotify's modern rock and modern Punk channels, etc. Awful.
Everyone says that same thing but then don't name any examples of this happening. If you know those kinds of bands, then please shout their name from the roof tops!
@@kiimawittu_ Ok, here is some of mine recent discoveries: An Abstract Illusion, Blackbraid, Chevelle, Deathyard, Doom:VS, HANABIE, Nemophila, Oceans of Slumber, Orbit Culture, Persefone, White Ward ... AGAOS, Sigh, Genus Ordinis Dei, Imminence, TheCityIsOurs, Shadow of Intent, Bloodywood
I feel like three major things are causing this 1) Guys just don't make bands any more, it's much harder to get 4 guys together to make music vs solo music like rap or pop 2) Streaming means you're not just competing against your contemporaries, but music of the last 80 years 3) death of monoculture means you might have decently sized audience but they're all spread out, making it harder to grow as a band from live performance.
Also, rappers and pop artists blow up at a younger age which gives them a head start and a advantage. A 20 year old rapper or pop star that blows up is common while a rock band made up of 20 year olds is likely still in college and or working full time and cant focus solely on music. Takes them longer to break out and puts them at at a huge disadvantage compared to other genres.
Music in general has become much more commoditized, imo. 50k to 100k tracks are added to Spotify every day and algorithmic curation has replaced traditional methods of popularity spread, which might be cause of the death of monoculture that you mention.
Oh I definitely noticed, and in my opinion he cares way too much about the conceptual side of things, to the point where it's almost it's own joke about modern art. A red square doesn't make me feel anyone's depression. It makes me hate a world where people see things that aren't there because some college professors said it was the thing to do.
Yeah, cause we, the pleb, will appreciate art better by putting it in the straightjacket of form/concept and then judge it by subjectively or even ignorantly placing it in a quadrant. This video is the opposite of art appreciation. It's personal taste disguised as art criticism with the help of fossilised concepts. Although, the concepts themselves aren't really the problem. It's the rogue way in which they are used that's the problem.
If you notice every movement he talked about in the beginning were all created out of a response to what was popular at the time. But we are living in a time where a popular monoculture no longer exists, the internet destroyed it, everyone just lives in a personalized bubble creadted by algorithms that cater to all of their individual interests, So now there is nothing to rebel against which in turn destroyed a lot of the creative drive in people.
This isn’t an original idea, but metal is now jazz. Incredible amount of players, but barely any new movements. It grew and progressed so fast, there is nowhere to go now.
There's a lot of people that think a band like Wilderun is a band making metal interesting again and evolving it, but I'm not really that fond of it. Either way, there's ALWAYS music out there that mainstream radio doesn't know or care about, and usually that's the place where we can begin to look for interesting new talent. MTV wouldn't play anything off Korn's first two albums, because they're less mainstream.
I think the lack of a monoculture has just wrecked what people think is innovative or successful. There are amazing albums being released every month, but they are not mainstream.... because nothing is mainstream when everyone has their own data driven music experiences now. How can music or artistic merit be measured when everyone has a completely different measuring stick?
I mean I would argue that makes artists MORE musical. They are writing for what speaks to them, not the masses, because nowadays artists aren't bound by what record labels or what sells the most records. It's just what bands and artists genuinely feel like creating. For some that might be easy to create and uninspired POP crap, but for others you may get experimental and unique sounding albums that can give an almost transcendent experience. I really hate this take that rock/metal is dead or dying. Maybe in mainstream eyes, but rock was never supposed to be mainstream to begin with so WHY are we expecting what's on the radios and television to have a solid grasp of what's truly inspired and sounds incredible?
This video feels like “if metal isn’t top 10 billboard it’s because it’s boring” which is such a stupid conclusion. There’s tons of great bands coming out making challenging innovative music they’re just not big because the nature of the genre deters mainstream attention. The idea that metal needs to “survive” in the mainstream in order to exist is just blatantly false. There’s literally an endless amount of genres and micro categories of metal music that you could explore endlessly but you cherry pick the most surface level bands to go “see! Nothing new is happening!”
rock and metal are boring because you listen to the same bands you did 30 years ago and spend money on their comeback tours rather than supporting a thriving local music scene
Thank you for this. I’m feeling confused about the topic of this video, considering that I feel the most sated as a fan of extreme metal now than I ever did a decade-plus ago. Metal’s most exciting aspect has been how deep you can dive into the underground to find interesting and innovative acts. Local scenes feel the same way. Avoid the mainstream, and you’ll never find yourself bored.
@@DenNavnlos Finn has been making this type of video for going on 10 years lol, I feel like rock and metal is actually in a better place than it was in the mid to late 2010's when rap was truly at its zenith in both the commercial, underground and internet scenes.
It's also BS. Rock ain't dea or boring. It's idiots who are stuck in the past going "music was so much better before." You ask them how they find music. They don't. So they have literally no idea that new songs are being released all the time. It drives me crazy.
The problem there's no local music scene to support. Bars and clubs still pay bands like it's the 90s. Music has gone from a respected career to a hobby.
Not exactly. You have boring corporate radio. And then you'll find gems on youtube. But there is a problem with bands not knowing how to stand out. And there is a sea of those bands that make you think. "Nothing special." But if you are not looking you're going to be stuck with the old and boring corporate radio.
This is pretty simple, actually: 1. There are no boundaries to push anymore - sonically or culturally 2. Society is too atomized for any one thing to make an impact like artists from previous generations - there aren't a couple dozen demos to appeal to anymore, there are hundreds or thousands. Even if there was anything truly innovative, by the time the mainstream catches on, we've moved on to something else.. because.... internet. And because there are no cultural boundaries to push anymore... the only thing with any kind of mass appeal is aimed directly at your ego: Hip-hop (it's literally just bragging... and look at everyone online, all they do is talk about how great they think they are - the connection is obvious)
This is true.. and for some of the same reasons. But with the addition of being a rather limited platform from the start... there are only so many ways you can claim to be the best before people start getting bored - and move on to the next person claiming to be the best (over a beat they didn't produce... using words they needed help writing - it's all soooooo fake). I say this not only as a fan of music in general, but as someone with personal experience in the industry (spent time working at Chung King back in the late 90s - the "Abby Road of Hip-Hop"... and few floors up from Def Jam)
@@ThePunkRockMBAbecause basically anytime there’s a new rapper that’s really taking off, they either get locked up or pass away. Very unfortunate cycle.
Well music shouldn't be breaking cultural boundaries to be successful, it's about the art and culture, it's how western society look at music, people in Latin America or the Middle East or India or East Asia many other places listen to their own music that's connected to their own culture and enjoy it, even though it's nothing new or culturally provocative,some of this genres are even centuries old.
We just think music sucks now because monoculture is dead. There are plenty of great artists today, but none of them are taking the world by storm like they might have in decades past. Blame the internet, blame Spotify, blame TikTok. The world is at our fingertips and we’re worse off for it. The mystery is gone.
Youre ignoring that the mainstream music industry as a whole is controlled by a handful of corporations. Any real innovation isnt going to get traction. You gotta go underground.
Yeah they never mention the industry. Good innovative things are out there but the problem is no one is pushing it out to the public. Safe and boring music sells better.
Uh, you do remember that NIN was on a sub label for Interscope. Which got its own sub label... then again, it was about that point you started getting the ossification of rock.
I recently joined a band who was in the market for a lead singer. First night, we hung out in the lead guitarists home studio (a super gnarly space that literally made my head spin) and he showed me some of the bands older material. It was good stuff; well produced and structured, but it was indistinguishable from just about any other post hardcore group. He expressed to me that he wanted to completely revamp the bands style, so I was excited to get started. He showed me some demos that he was thinking about pulling ahead with...and it was just more of the same stuff. The same break downs, the same general chord ideas, the same noodley verse riffs. I'm afraid we're just going to turn into another black t-shirt/skinny black jeans wearing modern post hardcore group. A band with no discernible qualities. I feel like this is the baseline for most modern rock bands.
If you want to freshen things up, then don’t look for a hardcore vocalist - look for someone from an entirely different genre that is open to experimenting and mixing their stylings with your music.
You're basically injecting and accepting stagnation when your ideas are rooted in what you don't want to become. You can't grow when the seed you plant has restrictions and boundaries rooted in fear of direction. Erase the thought of what you don't want to become and just start jammin together. Sitting and thinking too much about it goes nowhere. Motion sparks motivation which organically leads to innovation as long as everyone's energy is boundary less and you'll feel it when it happens. Either your band will shred or suck but as of right now all we know is what it isn't.
because “mainstream” doesn’t exist anymore. People are finding their spaces in niche circles and spreading that way. there’s also a lot of guys here screaming because they aren’t in tune with what’s actually happening among the youth
Rock/Metal will make a comeback in some form or another. It may not be innovating currently, but it's still deeply embedded in our culture. I'm sure plenty of people believed that Classical would never get better than Mozart back in the 1700s. And here we are in the 21st century with John Williams, Danny Elfman, and plenty of others absolutely killing it. Also I would say Dream Theater was pretty progressive. They were the first band to take Rush style rock and blend in heavy drop tuned/7 string riffs into it (See: The Mirror -1994). Without them you probably wouldn't have Haken, Caligula's Horse, Leprous, etc
It just so soy and vegan, so soft it killed rock it the mainstream forever…. Of monsters and men though were very decent. All we needed was them, not the Lumineers and all the others.
The harsh truth is that there is still room in rock for innovation and pushing cultural boundaries. The problem is that the rock scene, both fans and artists, mostly don’t want to innovate. The prevailing attitude is, everything peaked from the 60’s to the 90’s (maybe early aughts), any deviation from that is heresy, the only thing left to do is fawn over the good old days. It’s not the attitude of a living, breathing culture, it’s the attitude of a museum curator. That’s why we get Greta Van Fleet. Rock fans can complain all they want about them, but rap, hip hop, EDM, those are genres people still innovate in and want to say something new. Ironically, the genre that was birthed out of disregarding the rules is now chained to its own self-imposed rules that keep it in the past.
Your claim that rap, and EDM still innovate. They produce mostly shit just like every other genre. Shit that isn't that different from the shit before it. It's worse.
Yep, fully agree. Metalheads despise anything out of the norm. That's why there hasn't been a new genre in what? Over 15 years? As much as I like them, when bands like Vended are replicating the exact same thing their dads did 20 years ago, that really speaks volumes about the state of the metal scene.
I listen to all those styles, but hiphop/EDM being innovative? How? Maybe with the exception of acts like clipping., I don't hear much innovation in those genres either. It's just really commercially attractive. Also, when it comes to rock, let me just drop Zeal & Ardor and Imperial Triumphant here. I don't hear that kind of innovation in hiphop etc., or at least, not without looking hard.
There are many reasons contributing to this. For one, music going digital has been a double edged sword. On one hand you have unknown bands getting exposed to audiences they never could have had access to before. But on the other hand, there is so many choices that it becomes overwhelming the amount of bands people can support. There is no major focus. Mainstream music record labels consider rock/metal music as being “too risky/too much effort to produce”, so they no longer care to promote them. It is not as easily reproduced with minimal effort in the same way pop, country and rap music is. For whatever reason, fans of country, rap or pop music NEVER EVER get bored gulping down the exact same repackaged schlop over and over and over and over and over again. Yet rock/metal fans do get bored. Even when they find a band they claim to love, they have this frustrating need for the band to keep “evolving” their sound. If they change their sound too much, they alienate fans who don’t want a new sound (Silverchair, Metallica, Linkin Park, etc.), but if they don’t evolve their sound enough (Nickelback, Creed, Seether, etc.), many fans get bored and accuse them of “releasing the same album over and over”. Another inescapable fact is that many rock music fans are VERY stubborn. I used to try to promote new bands with similar sounds to bands people already like, yet it is easier to herd feral cats in a dark barn than it is to get fans to willingly give two precious minutes of their lives to give the unknown bands a chance. Another infuriating trait is that fans love certain sounds their favorite bands produce, yet they don’t like any other bands to give that similar sound. They are automatically “copycat bands”. For example, I love Tool and I want as many new bands as possible who can give me that sound (Source, Wheel, Atonian, Trope, Soen, etc.) since Tool simply doesn’t produce new music often enough to satisfy my thirst. But most Tool fans have no interest in listening to bands who sound similar to Tool (or they ignorantly assume that bands like Chevelle or Deftones is as close to Tool as bands can get). Legacy bands are another problem. They are (often) mediocre bands who simply had the luxury of being promoted during a time when mainstream music labels still took the rock & metal genre seriously. And those are the only bands many fans care about or focus on. And usually only “their hits”. When legacy bands try to create or play new songs, the audience doesn’t care; they just want the hits played. Of course, you touched on some other things I agree with, but yea there are many reasons I believe that the rock/metal genre is dying, and both the industry and the fans are to blame.
The fact that Rock / metal festival lineups have the same headliners as 2005 2004 system of a down Korn Deftones tool etcetera etcetera is it very terrifying warning sign what happens when these bands finally retire? Are these festivals going to disappear? I mean imagine in 2003 of if led Zeppelin and CCR was headlining Lollapalooza crazy
if theres a 3 day fest, I reckon having legacy, high energy, and up and new gen headliners all have their place. Download 2023 had Metallica, Slipknot and Bring me the Horizon, something for everyone imo
When the legacy bands vanish (because let's face it, a lot of them are getting older ... even bands from early 00's, the members aren't getting younger. Ignoring all the late 80s/early 90s bands ... who are really getting on now) ... I can't really think of what bands will fill those voids on the festival lineups. Because there aren't really those kinds of bands in the ones that are up and coming at the moment to be the future 'legacy' bands.
@@Notyourbis Part of this too is the fact that going to a festival of any genre cost a shit ton of money these days. The people who can afford it aren't like 19. 20. 21 year olds, for the most part, they're people in their 30s, 40's.
When Foo Fighters are literally the Most Popular Rock Band in the Game you know it's dead. HipHop is at its absolute Worst too. Post Modern Pop Culture is Trash. From Music to Movies to Art. Its uninspiring & lowkey depressing..
I've said the same for a long while. If rock kept growing, the Foo would've been done at least 10yrs ago. As mentioned with the "legacy bands", it's a shame that's all we have to still hold on to. I can even still like and respect some of them that are still making new music, but it's a sad state when that's pretty much all there is to still hold on to. Personally I've been digging and branching out to more music around the world, to even more electronic and somewhat pop that I typically didn't think I'd ever go for. There are some interesting things out there, it's just buried in tiny little pockets, spread out and mostly overshadowed by way too much trash that muddies the waters.
@@whois3581 I never looked at it that way!! The reason why the 30 and 40 year old bands are still around is because there are no new replacements. The question is when they're all dead and gone in 10 years, who going to replace the old bands?...
@@raphaellall6270 If nothing changes then all we'll have to look forward to is Limp Bizkit, My Chemical romance and munford and sons doing reunion/farewell shows and touring like kiss and the rolling stones in thier last days at 70yrs old. Except they probably won't be selling out stadiums, but instead play small festivals and county fairs, and that's when we'll know that rock is officially in the grave.
The main reason why the Emo Rap scene fluttered away, is because most of its most influential artists that were innovative in the genre, the real ones that made it interesting…died. It’s a sad truth.
Sounds almost like what happened with grudge. Both genres were spearheaded by very emotional, lost, troubled, gifted, talented, unsober individuals. We lost alot of them in a attempt to find thyself and got lost in drugs and depression.
@@dewanewelch1744I mean grunge at least had decent second wave bands or post-grunge whichever you prefer. Nickelback, Seether, Creed, Skillet, Godsmack, Staind, etc. Only good emo rap I can name are songs like "The Diary" and "Knife Called Lust" by Hollywood Undead. But really those are more like "proto-emo rap", they're from 2008 and combined hip-hop with emo/screamo/alt rock/post-hardcore.
@@zacharyengle4256 all the post-grunge bands you mentioned are terrible. That "second wave" moved the sound of grunge into the bottom left corner of the chart in this video: formally boring and conceptually uninteresting. Commercial rock
It’s not that it’s boring, it’s the simple fact that social media gatekeeps talented musicians from ever having a successful career in music, it’s not talent based anymore. It’s about how many followers you have.
There are a couple music channels that post all these albums from around the world, made by bands throughout the 70s (arguably one of the greatest decades for ROCK) that you've never heard of. I've listened to so many of those albums and omg, how the hell did ANYONE think the majority of them were anything but crap. Like the worst bands and songs and music... So amateur and dull.
LITERALLY UA-cam and Instagram watering down Ichika. He did something so new and fresh, but he doesn't do anything interesting anymore because he got bills to pay.
@@tan-jello this is true. people nostalgic for the 70s and 80s completely ignore that massive amount of dogshit that those decades produced despite also being some of the best times for rock and metal.
@SmokebongSchwammkopf - As someone who was a teenage in the 80s, I can verify that 75 percent of the music in the 80s was crap. But nobody remembers the crap, they just remember the good stuff.
The Music space is far too large today for any one genre to hold the top spot. You have to balance that with the music that the media companies force on us as much as they can.
I don't agree. I hear Spotify Top 10 stuff all the time at the gym and it seems to all come from just a couple genres: pop country, pop rap, and singer-songwriter pop. Most of it is pretty monotonous. Nothing completely dominating per se, but when has one genre completely dominated?
rock and metal are still cool and creative, they are not mainstream anymore imo because it's not as cheap and fast to make and easy to tour around as stuff like trap or four-on-the-floor pop.
Bedroom/youtube musicians have taken over the rock space. Tons of amazing talent and virtuosity but they aren't forming bands or really doing anything noteworthy other than creating "content" which is different than creating music.
UA-cam is sporting massive amounts of playing ability. Tons of exceptional players online. What none of them can do is WRITE anything worth playing, they do nothing but play incredibly well-done covers with extreme skill in duplicating somebody else's playing style. Writing is where it' at and there's none of it. Everyone can play their ass off, nobody knows how to put three or four chords together and write a decent 2- or 3-minute song.
Technology has pushed so much of the innovation of the last 70 years. From the first electric guitar in the 1950s, the first fuzz and distortion pedals in the 1960s, the first synthesizers in the 1970s, the first samplers, and drum machines in the 1980s. Then the 1990s everyone starts to get a PC and a DAW. Thats in many ways defined each era up to now.
I’ve had a weird theory about this for a while. Part of this idea stems from my own experience writing music, but essentially I think that young musicians and bands nowadays think more about showing their music to their families and friends for validation, rather than risking showing the world something new and authentic. What I mean by that is that we listen to music, love the way something sounds and wish we wrote it, and then turn around and come up with an idea “inspired” heavily by it and can’t wait to prove to those around us how great we sound. To our family and friends that don’t know better it’s amazing, you sound like you could be on the radio, but to the scene as a whole you’re just another copy and paste.
Makes a lot of sense. Me personally, I'd like the validation but at the same time. I write and play to be heard. Recently, I'm starting to play shows when I can. I don't write from inspiration, if I do, it sucks the point of writing for me. So, feeling is everything, especially when coming up with chords, riffs, and so forth.
A lot of truth in here, but you could apply this point to the vast majority of bands and artists that are revered. I bet you would find bands you like even come from this place if you read into it enough.
I'm no musician, not even close, but I've had a similar thought for a while now. Every new band that appears on my social media is showing their music by plastering a whole lot of "if you like (at least five bands)" or "for fans of (like three bands, usually sleep token gets included)" which is just ??? that tells me literally nothing about your band, if I like those bands I'll go and listen to them 😭 Or their blurb in Spotify or their website name drops at least 10 musicians and/or bands.... that have nothing to do with them, they're just trying to reach as many people as possible showing off absolutely nothing about them as artists nor the topics that inspire them, there's no substance other than showing off... so I've been listening to the same bands as always with the few newer groups that catch my attention
As someone who has been around for half a century, it seems to me people have gotten more boring, especially teens. I’m a teacher and most are just not curious about much at all. If young people are boring they will create boring things.
When punk blew up, it was because everything had become so oversaturated and stuff (as you said), but now, it’s also boring and pretty oversaturated. I think we’re in the ballpark for a new punk or something revolution. One day soon, one day…
Exactly, same with grunge. That's why I love music so much. Everything is new again at some point but also you can't keep creativity down. Genres will ALWAYS reinvent themselves, it usually starts with ONE person or ONE band.
And the thing is that the “new punk” won’t sound anything like the punk we’ve heard. It won’t have any ties to the original or mainstream punk music. It’ll be its own new thing and will be punk in spirit. If it happens.
@@jonjonjonjonjonjonjonand because of that it’ll get a lot of negative attention, which will ironically strengthen the punk effect until it becomes the counterculture
@@nicholaskruger9460 He just gave up on the rock-heavy metal personally but stressing about what is going to be the next big sound in the genre? Who cares everything has been done so enjoy the music for what it is or just don't bother with it at all!
Well, I still listen to rock and alt rock radio stations sometimes. Their job is to find good new music to play and that's what the did for decades. Well, now they play essentially no new music. All 60s-early 2000s. When they do play something new it's something like Billie Eilish which is pretty meh. So either there aren't any good new bands or there's some conspiracy to hide them from us.
Yeah, that's cool but that won't have any impact on music industry or on popculture. It was just fun 1 minute act, that nobody other than metal fans will remember in few months.
Gojira is way passed their prime, bro. The most culturally relevant metal at the moment is probably black metal, because the black metal scene got a good bit of attention from hipsters and the emo rap community, but that peaked in like 2017. There's still plenty of great rock and metal music, but it's not really relevant within the context of mainstream pop culture anymore, although that's probably not as bad as it sounds because mainstream pop culture has always been kind of boring. Too be fair, I don't think there's been much innovation in electronic music, rap, or pop music either. The music the public is listening to hasn't really changed a whole lot since the early 2000s. We are in a period of cultural and musical stagnation. How long that will last is anyone's guess.
I think everyone is kind of missing the common factor here: the way people listen to music and learn of new music has changed. There's no MTV or radio with record labels fighting for your attention, it's been replaced by spotify playlists and a million small acts. There's plenty of interesting acts in all genres, but there's much less space in the pop culture sphere. Since there's less space in that pop culture sphere, labels and spotify bet on the safe music the same way movie studios gravitate towards endless superhero movies. There's interesting stuff out there but it's not hitting the mainstream unless the paradigm shifts.
this right here is a huge component of it, music as a whole has been diluted in some ways ( % of innovation ) and more concentrated in others ( curated spotify playlists, betting on safe stuff ), recording music has probably never been easier in history and there are a ton of one person projects that push things, you just have to go more out of you way to find them and the proverbial boat got so big that they won't be able to rock it if you pardon the pun, also this is happening to entertainment at large, movies, tv shows, video games you name it
Don't forget that there are still very large labels, running very expensive campaigns, it's just that now the medium is Spotify, UA-cam, Insta, etc. etc.
My kid went to go see Green Day and Rancid this weekend. He said it was hard to take the anti-establishment pose seriously. Which is fair. We're just Democrats now and that's ok. 90s punk won. Your mom isn't making you to go to church now.
Recent history has shown that most punks from the 80s aren’t anti-establishment free-thinking anarchists at all. They only opposed the establishment when it was dominated by conservatives. With progressives in power, they are all for big government and just whine about corporations and Trump. They are and always were envious communist conformists who were just mad at the world because they wanted the power to impose their ideas on everyone else.
8:56 it’s like when Frank Reynolds played Ongo Goblogian the art collector and his favorite piece was the air conditioner. “Aren’t we all just walking, breathing air conditioners?”
You're right in the way that nobody has done anything new, it's probably because it's hard to do anything new when nearly anything has been done before. Today is the hardest it's ever been to be creatively original.
You just need to look at the comment sections on posts about new artists from rock media like Kerrang to see why bands are either not pushing boundaries, or they are but are being ignored. It's full of ageist rock 'fans' bashing new young artists based on a photo because they dress differently, smart arse comedians asking "who?" rather than clicking on the article and listening to the music, or just flat out zero engagement. These people aren't interested in discovering new music, they want more of what they like and nothing else. And as much as they hate to admit it, any innovation is most likely going to be seen from the younger acts, not the legacy ones. I think this is one of the unfortunate side effects of easy internet access and social media...the low attention span everyone has now prevents them from being open to trying new things. They want that reliable dopamine hit and they want it now. We need the audience to slow down and take risks before we can expect the artists to do the same. Obviously some already are, but they're harder to find when the trolls are telling the algorithm that nobody wants to see it 🤷♂
@@ThePunkRockMBA We need a new internet era where we wake up and realise what we're missing out on! We also need the old men in denim vests to stop shouting at clouds and let the progress in 😂
I used to play a game when watching older music... How long before someone says "they don't make music like this anymore" I don't see it as much now, It's been replaced by "No autotune, just talent"
Sorry, just wrong. We grew up when the record companies were taking chances. They just stopped caring and let the computers figure out what makes money. Eventually everything sounds the same. Fresh energy and originality is returning to rock through bands like the Warning an Freeze the Fall. All young people who developed themselves as independent bands. The Warning turned down Disney and all record deals for six year😢s before finally getting a deal with creative independence. Going to a Warning show next month. They are legendary.
I think this goes back to monoculture again. In the past the delivery method for music was smaller, we had Mtv or the radio. Labels could take chances on more obscure artists that were maybe outside the prepackaged norm knowing that if anything they’d probably recoup their investment, and best case they’d discover the next big trend if people took a liking to it. These days with music, and film, it seems like taking a chance on something new is too big of a risk, so they play it safe and serve what they know will sell. There are thousands of artists making revolutionary music right this minute, but because of ease of access to recording and distribution they become buried in a sea of saturation that’s really hard to sift through.
The monopolization of the arts industries has also played a role. Less competition in the market place. There's no longer 100's of labels or small movie studios, there's like 10. They have no reason to innovate or take risks. They just need to make their shareholders happy.
Well now you need to take a chance on the revolutionary, obscure artists. Today you won't be spoon fed artists that don't appease the lowest common denominator. Today you have to traverse the Internet, go to a record shop and/or check out your local scene to find music that fits your niche.
This video confused me. The whole point was basically that nothing huge has come along to shake up the industry and that music is boring right? Honest question.
@ThePunkRockMBA ok thank you for responding. Hope you didn't take this as antagonistic or rude. It's still early for me. I agree that nothing big has came around to shake things up and that the majority of the bigger bands and billboard hits are boring, but I listen to such a wide range of music that I don't ever get bored. A lot of metal bands these days also have such unique things they do or blend genres together in ways I never thought was possible, leading to it being my most listened to genre by far. If you see this, do you think that the music that innovates isn't being made and/or do you believe the labels in charge of pushing the music don't push the "scary" innovative music because they fear low sales and interest?
@@Szczauqa He may have an announcement video about the end of the channel, but he's said in his Discord that he's only going to be posting on LinkedIn going forward. He wants to focus on growing businesses I think
One alternative artist I do think is being arguably more innovative and interesting than most of her peers is Poppy. She keeps doing the most bizarre collabs and continues to crush it.
Poppy is amazing. She's actively releasing music all the time. Her new single is pretty standard hard rock but hopefully it converts the masses. I Disagree is a brilliant album
Born too late to explore the world..... Borth too early too explore the stars.... Born just in time to watch Metal/Rock turn into a souless husk of what it was
Go watch some local bands. I’ll bet there are artists out there that would prove you wrong. Hell, just a couple weeks ago I went to a dive bar and saw two bands from Columbus Missouri and they fucking owned
I know what you're saying is probably true, but at the same time rock/metal music just scratches an itch in a way that other genres of music just can't for me. I can't abandon rock just yet, surely it's still got some steam left in the tank?
Music is just too fragmented and that probably won't change. Gone are the days when everyone listened to the same one or two radio stations playing the same songs over and over again. That's how a lot of artists blew up.
Music and most media is oversaturated now, we have access to anything we want with the swipe of a finger and it's easier for anyone to make their own art public. It's not as exciting because we are overexposed and the internet has made almost every concept not new and controversial anymore.
Stop looking in America. We all lost the plot here. Look at some acts coming out of Asia or Africa. That's where the mind-blowing stuff is coming from. Also, for a laugh, Electric Callboy.
the argument doesn´t make sense for one single reason: the lack of new ideas does not only apply to this genre but to music industry as a whole. Hence, it cannot in and by itself explain the lack of popularity of one specific genre.
There's a lot of innovation in that gap from the Beach Boys to Nine Inch Nails. NIN might have sounded new and interesting, but was nowhere close to the first to introduce popular synth sounds into popular music. New wave and 80s synth bands were hugely popular.
Korn, slipknot, limpbizkit, deftones these are bands i saw many times in festivals in the 90s, same bands in festivals today, thats the problem, nobody is letting new bands hit the big stage so they go unnoticed.
@IzunaSlap I frankly can't stand Metallica because of how they are always the defacto choice to add metal music in mainstream media. Like guys there's much more you could choose from besides them and AC/DC 🙄
Don't give a shit about any of that cultural impact, or mass appeal crap. The underground metal scene has never been healthier, and that's all I care about.
@@itsoundzgoodERRA was one of the several bands I mentioned in my comment mentioning how this whole video is a braindead take. Archspire was another one. They do it all: technically impressive musicianship, entertainers on stage (they are fucking hilarious), everything political to comedic lyrical content. That's what I'd call a "top-right" band from this video's metrics.
Pulp Fiction isn't conceptually boring. If it is, then grunge must be as well. Both things changed the landscape of media they're part of. When grunge was an answer to unauthentic mainstream music of the late 80s, Pulp Fiction was the same thing in the movie industry. You should watch some Tarantino interviews about his creative direction and motives when creating Pulp Fiction.
I think the main problem for music as a whole is the way it’s consumed now. When artists have to continually release music to stay relevant instead of being able to have a solid touring cycle and then time to actually write and develop a concept and execute it. Artists are pressured to release songs that I believe would not of seen the light of day 20-30 years ago. Also artists struggle to make a living from music so the. You factor in stuff like having a job to pay bills. I think it’s refreshing to see more genre blending. Also there are multiple non mainstream genres seeing a lot of success right now and could see them becoming even more popular because the bands blowing up are great bands with great people in them. They are definitely bands that will spend time with fans and make people want to support them even more.
I think the problem is social media. People would rather follow people and podcasts than actually go out and see live acts. There are tons of live acts that are still selling out places. And up here in New England there is a really big underground music scene. There are tons of great shows every weekend. But the problem is people aren’t coming as much as they used to because they’d rather stay home.there’s a lot for Band to say these days. Just last weekend one place was holding hip-hop and R&B, another one had metal, and one place even did a street where each house had a different band playing. It was pretty cool.
I probably didn’t totally get to what I was saying in that last statement. My point was each place I went to each band had something to say and it was pretty interesting. And there is still those who pushed the boundaries of music. The thing is, they’re just not asexposed as they probably should be
Yeah I think what he forgot to mention is how social media and tech has completely changed the scene. There's still a lot more that can be done with rock, I just think there's a lot less people trying to be so bold as to try something fresh than there used to be.
@@808slumpsi think live music in every genre attract more people than ever before,there are statistics about that out there,the problem is all with the narrative
1:26 Rock and metal sucks today because there are only two levels of success: Making absolutely zero money or being a watered down consumer friendly sellout. When was the last time rock or metal had a true artistic success story?
I am finding the most new music now than I have at any other time in my life, I'm 43. I'm finding new bands I like as well as new music by bands I've been following for 5, 10, 20+ years.
It was a big moment for THEM. Completely irrelevant for rock in the grand scheme of things. Is the top 40 filled with Gojira-like bands as a result? Are teenagers blown away and completely inspired by Gojira now sparking a new ground shifting cultural movement the likes of hair metal, punk or grunge? No. It was a big moment for an older band. And now it’s over.
@@stewartdowouis9218 For Gojira, it opened up metal to a few of my acquaintances who would never have listened, though they are all 40+ For the kids, there's plenty of metal coming from overseas.
@@stewartdowouis9218 Who cares about filling the top 40 ? How does making it to the top 40 makes a song innovating or even good ? Most Metal artists are looking for the right niche genre that fits them, or most likely create it, not to please everyone... especially not pleasing everyone. And they'll have cultural impact when other artists that have content matching their niche will reference them.
@@stewartdowouis9218 No, it's not. The title is about Rock & Metal being boring. And the main argument he had is that Rock & Metal now would lack innovation and concepts beyond technical prowess. And yeah, he tries some appeals to popularity as I said, that is totally meaningless. As for cultural significance... He himself made a video about how important the modern metal soundtrack was in DOOM.
Oh it's quite simple. Not just rock/metal being boring, but all music. The world was boring from 1950-2010, so music was exciting. But over the last 15 years, and especially the last five, the rolls have swapped. The world is now a messy, chaotic, unstable place where you can't catch your breath. So now music has become the stable, predictable, safe thing. The world now looks like how NIN sounded like. You think artists these days can be more bold and striking than a world gone mad?
@@Connorb2008 Oh stuff did happen. But it did peter out. Since the housing crisis, we've been on a downward slope of sustained chaos that no one can get away from.
You pretty much skip over metal. Right from punk to grunge then to emo. Metal, thrash, industrial had almost 20 years of being good and cutting edge. Grunge was/is highly overstated and overrated., It had a high point of 4-5 years in the early 90s and it's mostly crap. Alice in Chains was good, but Nirvana and Pearl Jam were not that innovative and were just an extensive of alternative rock because people had gotten bored with hair bands. I was never a fan. And hip is long since played out and redundant. Talk about a lack of new ideas and appealing to the lowest level of music fans..
Rock and metal are NOT boring now, it's as good as it's ever been. The problem is that it's not widespread or mainstream. All anyone is exposed to now (those who don't know where to look) is plastic music-product. There is EXCELLENT rock and metal being made today, all over; you just need to know where to find it.
Widespread? Dude we have phones now that lock us into current news and trends that argument is moot this day and age with the advent of of the rise of social media of the past 10 years. 20 years ago that would have held water but not in this time.
@@refluxcatalyst7190who the hell still listens to the radio or watches tv? Everyone just listens to playlists and streams shows of their choosing nowadays
Yea I can respect them, but at the same time, they can get pretty cheesy too. Essentially a jam band that throws everything against the wall. Their editing floor is empty. Not always such a great thing. "Ohh, I made a sound. Let's put out four albums based on that!"
Not really. Everything I've ever heard from them sounds like something I've already heard before. I'm so confused when I hear people say they're "breaking new ground"
I’m 40. Lately I’ve been going backwards and getting into all the classic bands that I thought were “old and boring” as a kid. Zep, SRV, all those. Damn I really missed out lol but it’s nice to have this generation worth of untapped music to hear for the first time
Yeah this dude doesn't know what he is talking about but like someone said here in the comment section that maybe the problem is him and not the music itself! Rock and metal will always evolve faster than him getting tired of the music because he is not looking in the right places instead of just searching through the mainstream media to look for something groundbreaking!
I don’t get this. Like I truly don’t understand- can someone please explain to me why the statement of “there are no other boundaries to be pushed culturally and sonically” keeps being made? There is so much to be explored creatively- it’s insane. Endless ideas. I just don’t get why people keep saying that.
In a time wherein we are bombarded with sound (noise), and everybody and their grandma can produce music, strangely, there seems to be less variety or innovation. It's like when there are too many choices, quality is sacrificed to quantity.
@ThePunkRockMBA masters of business. But there seems to be something wrong with 'business' on macro level. There's a lack of satisfaction on the consumer side that is starting to grow.
Part of the problem stems from smart phone culture. People aren’t conversing anymore. Language, in general, has lost the art of nuance and double entendre, not to mention things are either flat out vulgar, or they are rated G. We used to live in a society where PG-13 comedies were commonplace. Now, we have Cardie B rapping about her WAP on Nickelodeon.
@@Joe-po9xn heriot, civerous, maul, spectral wound, vorga, hellripper, devil master and some more bands that are more well known in the metal scene like; gatecreeper, 200 stab wounds and frozen soul.
This is completely un-true. There are great rock songs being made today. They just aren’t ‘Mainstream’.. Artists such as: -Royal Blood -QOTSA -Arctic Monkeys -Death From Above 1979 -Rival Sons -Larkin Poe
I think another lean to your topic IMO is also the current engineering (purified guitar tones and compressed drum kits) is where there is a "sounds a lot like" vibe regardless of the musicianship and arrangement abilities.
Is it such a bad thing though? Does everything have to be the most groundbreaking thing ever? I understand what you’re saying. Society has changed mostly. To the point where everything seems to wide open. Rock isn’t out of gas. Rock music used to scare the hell out of people back in the day. But it’s hard to do that now. But to me I feel like it’s a time where everyone kinda listens to what they enjoy. Or depending on mood. Also, there is almost zero reward in making albums now. Making money in the music industry has almost disappeared. Everything about music as a whole has changed. Most people don’t even seem to want hear anything new anymore. Just what I have noticed. I’m no one. Just a tiny Microscopic part of todays music business.
It's always a amusing treat to see what old man yelling at clouds is yelling about this time lol Last month you complained about metalcore changing and this month you're complaining about bands and musicians not changing and innovating. So which is it? lmao Here's the problem with your argument, at the beginning you say you're not talking about popularity and your whole argument is about being popular enough to change the cultural zeitgeist. Rock and metal just isn't as popular as it once was, not because they're not good or interesting, but because mainstream tastes have changed. It happens.
Anytime there's a new music movement they get defanged. Over time a genre gets watered down. Example: punk goes pop punk goes mall emo the apple commercial music like the Lumineers. A good way to judge a dying genre is: are they promoting the media/government message? Is Disney wearing genre like a costume? The band wants to make money. They want to promote the mandated message of the day. It's all one big psyop.
Doom soundtrack and Author & Punisher were probably the two best things to come out of the mid '10s. I've never heard another artist like Author & Punisher. If they exist please send links.
Eh, that was Emo Pop in the mid-late 00s which was the last rock subgenre to be popular before the genre crashed and burned in mainstream popularity alongside Post Grunge after that genre fell off
Have you heard the band 1876? They're a Native American punk rock band and I think they're pretty awesome. They include Native American drums in their music.
Dead Pioneers another new/interesting punk band with Native American frontman. Bad Indian is one of the first new punk songs I've heard in a while to actually get me fired up. Like a protest/political Hold Steady.
I will add in another factor here, I think the 70s, 80s, and 90s, brought about a more conformist society where everyone listened to what was popular, cool, or groovy in those times. Nowadays, we’re in such a melting pot of music and everyone reminisces about different time periods and different emotional experiences and therefore everyone just has different musical tastes. I think this dilution is another factor in why rock has lost overall popularity and relevance to society as a whole.
Thanks to Lumen for sponsoring. Go to lumen.me/punkrock to get 15% off your Lumen today!
Who else misses Finn posting videos on his second channel?
Great video finn....clap clap......cheeks...sorry
And I can completely agree with you on the whole trap metal thing currently working on a project with 2 rappers And myself as a guitar player Literally the only metal thing about the band is me.. There's No fresh takes on mixing the 2
new shoegazey bands are killing it right now!!
A funnier sponsor would have been the lumineers.
You can still find cool shit, it just won't be mainstream.
For sure. But a lot of music nowadays is just supposed to be playing in the background.
Correct.😉👍✨
@@Wailmuryeah, it’s not like the guys wanna come over and spin a new Van Halen album, or Nirvana album, even if there could be one, and do it loud.
facts
Yep, good music is not being played in MTv like used to be.
Gojira closing the olympics would be the closest thing rock/metal has had to a cultural moment in a while.
*opening
Exactly my thoughts 👍
Yeah, that was pretty cool actually.
the last one moment before that was that guy in stranger things playing metallica
And they barried that behind the last supper drag preformemce
I'm 47 and people have complained that "music today sucks, it was better in the old days" for as long as I've been listening to music which is just over 4 decades.
Thank you. This is how I feel as well. There's always a bunch screaming that everything nowadays sucks and even though I understand why they say it, I feel sorry for them.
I actually disagree with this video premise, but then again, I also understand where it comes from.
@@kinetic-cybernetic There are bad and good music epochs. They both occur simultaneously. It all just depends on who you're asking.
I'm 47 and love melodic punk and pop-punk, both "obsolete" kinds of music but there's still new stuff coming out that kicks ass. Green Day, Rancid, Face To Face, Bink-182, The Offspring etc.
True…but I think the internet and the smart phone (2008) is different then anything that had happened in prior decades
well at least Oasis coming back will bring back electric guitar music to the mainstream again.
@@purefoldnz3070 If you need an 30 yo band to make rock & electric guitars into the mainstream & cultural zeitgeist, then that's pretty sad bro.
My take is that Music is boring as of now, not just Rock and Metal.
Pretty Lights fans are eating so good right now 😎
Exactly, most music has become recycled crap. From pop to death metal, new ideas are very few and far between.
People have also become way less interested in art in general. We can clearly see that podcasts (99% of which are pure junk) have taken the place of music for many people. Why? Because it takes less effort to listen to, needs less engagement and offers "more for your money". Why listen to a 45min album that comes out once every 3 years when you can get a 2 hour serving of slop every week?
thats just not true tho. there is plenty of innovation happening in the post rock era, it just involves black people and "black people music" so the rock and metal fans hate it.
@@uoislame what is "plenty of innovation"? Sure there have been new ideas from time to time, but nothing that managed to capture people's attention. And please don't pull the race card, when black artists are pretty much at an all-time high in terms of popularity. Not everything is a racial issue.
I agree
In 2004, I wrote a thesis when I was in college about the inevitable death of rock music, being replaced with electronic, pop, and easy to produce and market music. Part of my research was going to radio stations and music stores, and having discussions with people who were heavy into the scene at the time. Mostly, I was dismissed for my ideas that I was presenting, but each and every time they were pointing to the past, and could never see a path forward. I'm a bit sad that what I was seeing at the time has come true.
Do you still have a copy of the thesis you wrote?
I’d like to read that thesis. Nailed ir
People tend to be pretty bad at seeing the future, and, as you said, (in different words), tend to look to what has been as a predictor of what will come.
@@davidlamountain2248 maybe ask for recs instead of listening to top 40 throughout your life
I was friends with a guy in high school in the 80s and he had the same theory about the death of the guitar (he thought the synth-based new wave of the early-mid 80s would kill it). Then thrash metal hit. Then the Seattle scene killed hair metal. Then the 90s was one of the biggest decades ever for guitar rock. Point is, you can’t predict the future.
The real problem is people nowadays get more entertainment from searching for things to bitch about rather than just enjoying it.
this
These guys are real good at making bold claims and trying to pass them off as facts. Notice they never provide a solution?
rock fans love to say "this is not real rock"
some of them think only THEIR subgenre of rock is good
An excellent observation that (unintentionally?) proves that the good entertainment is either lacking or missing.
Listen to my songa
The mainstream is boring.
But it always has been. There were always the Pop Stars v Real Music
The mainstream hasn't existed for over a decade
Agreed
SUX!!!!;);)
Then do something about. Vagabond.
I think right now we are at cultural impasse. It is not just rock/metal that is out of steam. The pop and hiphop guys started complaining that it has all become repetitive and uninspired as well. And it is not limited to music. Cinema is essentially dead, and TV-Streaming Series are also on their last breaths. Evening apparat from the one or two titles per year that surprise successes but some more or less industry outsides (sorry From Soft, but you know what i mean) the gaming crowd is not happy either. I don't really pay much attention to current literature but i would not be shocked if it was similar there. What we are experiencing is that cultural production (it is no longer art) has been min-maxed so much for attention (and thereby monetary success in the short run), that it became bland and uninteresting to most. Unless you really actively look out for it, where is the truly groundbreaking stuff in art. To be sure, great stuff still exists (probably more than ever), but you have to dig deep for yourself.
This is the best and most true comment.
indeed!!!
After winter comes spring
Seeds will grow from beneath
I think people should just enjoy stuff rather than trying to look for what's groundbreaking all the time,this is how people all over the world enjoy folk music and culture,you just need more human connections.
Exactly. People get hung up on genres or forms of entertainment, but the medium itself is fundamentally maxed out.
Same goes for cinema imo, though I reckon gaming has a bit more potential still in theory.
At this point if I hear somebody say 'modern rock and metal is dead/boring' I just assume there's nothing they're listening to outside of the MEGA big name bands. Plenty of great stuff out there, just gotta go looking for it.
Yeah, that's what I keep hearing. Here's the thing. Most people have jobs and don't have time or patience to sift through servers full of uncurated music. I sure don't. If this awesome music really exists, there would be some organized way to curate it and get it to the masses. I tried listening to Spotify's modern rock and modern Punk channels, etc. Awful.
Everyone says that same thing but then don't name any examples of this happening. If you know those kinds of bands, then please shout their name from the roof tops!
@@kiimawittu_ Dirty honey, greta van fleet, Rival sons etc. There are a lot and not just on uncurated servers.
@@kiimawittu_ Ok, here is some of mine recent discoveries:
An Abstract Illusion, Blackbraid, Chevelle, Deathyard, Doom:VS, HANABIE, Nemophila, Oceans of Slumber, Orbit Culture, Persefone, White Ward ...
AGAOS, Sigh, Genus Ordinis Dei, Imminence, TheCityIsOurs, Shadow of Intent, Bloodywood
I shall add Aquilus. @@bazilio8258
I feel like three major things are causing this 1) Guys just don't make bands any more, it's much harder to get 4 guys together to make music vs solo music like rap or pop 2) Streaming means you're not just competing against your contemporaries, but music of the last 80 years 3) death of monoculture means you might have decently sized audience but they're all spread out, making it harder to grow as a band from live performance.
Also, rappers and pop artists blow up at a younger age which gives them a head start and a advantage. A 20 year old rapper or pop star that blows up is common while a rock band made up of 20 year olds is likely still in college and or working full time and cant focus solely on music. Takes them longer to break out and puts them at at a huge disadvantage compared to other genres.
You nailed it !
Music in general has become much more commoditized, imo. 50k to 100k tracks are added to Spotify every day and algorithmic curation has replaced traditional methods of popularity spread, which might be cause of the death of monoculture that you mention.
I feel like this is a really good way to teach art appreciation to your specific audience without them knowing 😂
It definitely made me reevaluate all the jokes I used to make at modern art’s expense
@@andrewwhisner2840 yeah good call on making a video with deeper content. It seems like the content Finn wants to make more of.
Oh I definitely noticed, and in my opinion he cares way too much about the conceptual side of things, to the point where it's almost it's own joke about modern art.
A red square doesn't make me feel anyone's depression. It makes me hate a world where people see things that aren't there because some college professors said it was the thing to do.
My audio only ass has to “rewatch” this vid lmao
Yeah, cause we, the pleb, will appreciate art better by putting it in the straightjacket of form/concept and then judge it by subjectively or even ignorantly placing it in a quadrant. This video is the opposite of art appreciation. It's personal taste disguised as art criticism with the help of fossilised concepts. Although, the concepts themselves aren't really the problem. It's the rogue way in which they are used that's the problem.
If you notice every movement he talked about in the beginning were all created out of a response to what was popular at the time. But we are living in a time where a popular monoculture no longer exists, the internet destroyed it, everyone just lives in a personalized bubble creadted by algorithms that cater to all of their individual interests, So now there is nothing to rebel against which in turn destroyed a lot of the creative drive in people.
This is a freaken take!
Spot on
This isn’t an original idea, but metal is now jazz. Incredible amount of players, but barely any new movements. It grew and progressed so fast, there is nowhere to go now.
@@cirkuslizard8697 no
They need to work on writing good songs with a catchy guitar riff again.
@@CelestialWoodway there are whole genres of catchy metal, you just don't have good enough taste to know them
@@CelestialWoodway even if it that came back, we'd be stuck in the same rut.
There's a lot of people that think a band like Wilderun is a band making metal interesting again and evolving it, but I'm not really that fond of it. Either way, there's ALWAYS music out there that mainstream radio doesn't know or care about, and usually that's the place where we can begin to look for interesting new talent. MTV wouldn't play anything off Korn's first two albums, because they're less mainstream.
I think the lack of a monoculture has just wrecked what people think is innovative or successful. There are amazing albums being released every month, but they are not mainstream.... because nothing is mainstream when everyone has their own data driven music experiences now. How can music or artistic merit be measured when everyone has a completely different measuring stick?
I mean I would argue that makes artists MORE musical. They are writing for what speaks to them, not the masses, because nowadays artists aren't bound by what record labels or what sells the most records. It's just what bands and artists genuinely feel like creating. For some that might be easy to create and uninspired POP crap, but for others you may get experimental and unique sounding albums that can give an almost transcendent experience.
I really hate this take that rock/metal is dead or dying. Maybe in mainstream eyes, but rock was never supposed to be mainstream to begin with so WHY are we expecting what's on the radios and television to have a solid grasp of what's truly inspired and sounds incredible?
Rock N Roll is not a monoculture. It’s a subculture.
This video feels like “if metal isn’t top 10 billboard it’s because it’s boring” which is such a stupid conclusion. There’s tons of great bands coming out making challenging innovative music they’re just not big because the nature of the genre deters mainstream attention. The idea that metal needs to “survive” in the mainstream in order to exist is just blatantly false. There’s literally an endless amount of genres and micro categories of metal music that you could explore endlessly but you cherry pick the most surface level bands to go “see! Nothing new is happening!”
rock and metal are boring because you listen to the same bands you did 30 years ago and spend money on their comeback tours rather than supporting a thriving local music scene
Thank you for this. I’m feeling confused about the topic of this video, considering that I feel the most sated as a fan of extreme metal now than I ever did a decade-plus ago. Metal’s most exciting aspect has been how deep you can dive into the underground to find interesting and innovative acts. Local scenes feel the same way. Avoid the mainstream, and you’ll never find yourself bored.
@@DenNavnlos Finn has been making this type of video for going on 10 years lol, I feel like rock and metal is actually in a better place than it was in the mid to late 2010's when rap was truly at its zenith in both the commercial, underground and internet scenes.
It's also BS. Rock ain't dea or boring. It's idiots who are stuck in the past going "music was so much better before." You ask them how they find music. They don't. So they have literally no idea that new songs are being released all the time. It drives me crazy.
The problem there's no local music scene to support. Bars and clubs still pay bands like it's the 90s. Music has gone from a respected career to a hobby.
Not exactly. You have boring corporate radio. And then you'll find gems on youtube. But there is a problem with bands not knowing how to stand out. And there is a sea of those bands that make you think. "Nothing special." But if you are not looking you're going to be stuck with the old and boring corporate radio.
This is pretty simple, actually: 1. There are no boundaries to push anymore - sonically or culturally 2. Society is too atomized for any one thing to make an impact like artists from previous generations - there aren't a couple dozen demos to appeal to anymore, there are hundreds or thousands. Even if there was anything truly innovative, by the time the mainstream catches on, we've moved on to something else.. because.... internet. And because there are no cultural boundaries to push anymore... the only thing with any kind of mass appeal is aimed directly at your ego: Hip-hop (it's literally just bragging... and look at everyone online, all they do is talk about how great they think they are - the connection is obvious)
Totally agree, but even hip hop has fallen off lately
This is true.. and for some of the same reasons. But with the addition of being a rather limited platform from the start... there are only so many ways you can claim to be the best before people start getting bored - and move on to the next person claiming to be the best (over a beat they didn't produce... using words they needed help writing - it's all soooooo fake). I say this not only as a fan of music in general, but as someone with personal experience in the industry (spent time working at Chung King back in the late 90s - the "Abby Road of Hip-Hop"... and few floors up from Def Jam)
@@ThePunkRockMBAbecause basically anytime there’s a new rapper that’s really taking off, they either get locked up or pass away. Very unfortunate cycle.
Well music shouldn't be breaking cultural boundaries to be successful, it's about the art and culture, it's how western society look at music, people in Latin America or the Middle East or India or East Asia many other places listen to their own music that's connected to their own culture and enjoy it, even though it's nothing new or culturally provocative,some of this genres are even centuries old.
Well put!
We just think music sucks now because monoculture is dead. There are plenty of great artists today, but none of them are taking the world by storm like they might have in decades past. Blame the internet, blame Spotify, blame TikTok. The world is at our fingertips and we’re worse off for it. The mystery is gone.
Youre ignoring that the mainstream music industry as a whole is controlled by a handful of corporations. Any real innovation isnt going to get traction. You gotta go underground.
This is the problem for everything in general but you nailed it!
bullshit rises first, thats what my grandpappy taught me.
Bro, this isn't 1995. There's no such thing as underground or controlled by corporations. You can find whatever you want whenever you want lol
Yeah they never mention the industry. Good innovative things are out there but the problem is no one is pushing it out to the public. Safe and boring music sells better.
Uh, you do remember that NIN was on a sub label for Interscope. Which got its own sub label... then again, it was about that point you started getting the ossification of rock.
I recently joined a band who was in the market for a lead singer. First night, we hung out in the lead guitarists home studio (a super gnarly space that literally made my head spin) and he showed me some of the bands older material. It was good stuff; well produced and structured, but it was indistinguishable from just about any other post hardcore group. He expressed to me that he wanted to completely revamp the bands style, so I was excited to get started. He showed me some demos that he was thinking about pulling ahead with...and it was just more of the same stuff. The same break downs, the same general chord ideas, the same noodley verse riffs. I'm afraid we're just going to turn into another black t-shirt/skinny black jeans wearing modern post hardcore group. A band with no discernible qualities. I feel like this is the baseline for most modern rock bands.
If you want to freshen things up, then don’t look for a hardcore vocalist - look for someone from an entirely different genre that is open to experimenting and mixing their stylings with your music.
I'm sick of screaming vocalists.
You're basically injecting and accepting stagnation when your ideas are rooted in what you don't want to become. You can't grow when the seed you plant has restrictions and boundaries rooted in fear of direction. Erase the thought of what you don't want to become and just start jammin together. Sitting and thinking too much about it goes nowhere. Motion sparks motivation which organically leads to innovation as long as everyone's energy is boundary less and you'll feel it when it happens. Either your band will shred or suck but as of right now all we know is what it isn't.
because “mainstream” doesn’t exist anymore. People are finding their spaces in niche circles and spreading that way.
there’s also a lot of guys here screaming because they aren’t in tune with what’s actually happening among the youth
Rock/Metal will make a comeback in some form or another. It may not be innovating currently, but it's still deeply embedded in our culture. I'm sure plenty of people believed that Classical would never get better than Mozart back in the 1700s. And here we are in the 21st century with John Williams, Danny Elfman, and plenty of others absolutely killing it.
Also I would say Dream Theater was pretty progressive. They were the first band to take Rush style rock and blend in heavy drop tuned/7 string riffs into it (See: The Mirror -1994). Without them you probably wouldn't have Haken, Caligula's Horse, Leprous, etc
Its not just rock and metal. Hip hop and rap are also dead.
Definitely not. Underground / Street rap artists produced very compelling albums in the last 5.
JID...J Cole... Denzel Curry...
@@hunterdelaghetto lol no not music
@@standardbrah sure but I was thinking more like .. Boldy James, Estee Nack and Cavalier
Hip Hop and Rap are definitely over saturated but it's not dead at all lol
Can we dive into why you and I hate the whole Lumineers 2010 rock era so much
It just so soy and vegan, so soft it killed rock it the mainstream forever…. Of monsters and men though were very decent. All we needed was them, not the Lumineers and all the others.
The harsh truth is that there is still room in rock for innovation and pushing cultural boundaries. The problem is that the rock scene, both fans and artists, mostly don’t want to innovate. The prevailing attitude is, everything peaked from the 60’s to the 90’s (maybe early aughts), any deviation from that is heresy, the only thing left to do is fawn over the good old days. It’s not the attitude of a living, breathing culture, it’s the attitude of a museum curator. That’s why we get Greta Van Fleet.
Rock fans can complain all they want about them, but rap, hip hop, EDM, those are genres people still innovate in and want to say something new. Ironically, the genre that was birthed out of disregarding the rules is now chained to its own self-imposed rules that keep it in the past.
You kinda sum up about Harmless Dave from the Real Music Observer expect that he’s stuck in the 70’s and 80’s. Most rockists hate the 90’s and 2000’s.
Rap and EDM produce just as much derivative garbage as any other scene
Your claim that rap, and EDM still innovate. They produce mostly shit just like every other genre. Shit that isn't that different from the shit before it. It's worse.
Yep, fully agree. Metalheads despise anything out of the norm. That's why there hasn't been a new genre in what? Over 15 years?
As much as I like them, when bands like Vended are replicating the exact same thing their dads did 20 years ago, that really speaks volumes about the state of the metal scene.
I listen to all those styles, but hiphop/EDM being innovative? How? Maybe with the exception of acts like clipping., I don't hear much innovation in those genres either. It's just really commercially attractive.
Also, when it comes to rock, let me just drop Zeal & Ardor and Imperial Triumphant here. I don't hear that kind of innovation in hiphop etc., or at least, not without looking hard.
There are many reasons contributing to this. For one, music going digital has been a double edged sword. On one hand you have unknown bands getting exposed to audiences they never could have had access to before. But on the other hand, there is so many choices that it becomes overwhelming the amount of bands people can support. There is no major focus. Mainstream music record labels consider rock/metal music as being “too risky/too much effort to produce”, so they no longer care to promote them. It is not as easily reproduced with minimal effort in the same way pop, country and rap music is. For whatever reason, fans of country, rap or pop music NEVER EVER get bored gulping down the exact same repackaged schlop over and over and over and over and over again. Yet rock/metal fans do get bored. Even when they find a band they claim to love, they have this frustrating need for the band to keep “evolving” their sound. If they change their sound too much, they alienate fans who don’t want a new sound (Silverchair, Metallica, Linkin Park, etc.), but if they don’t evolve their sound enough (Nickelback, Creed, Seether, etc.), many fans get bored and accuse them of “releasing the same album over and over”.
Another inescapable fact is that many rock music fans are VERY stubborn. I used to try to promote new bands with similar sounds to bands people already like, yet it is easier to herd feral cats in a dark barn than it is to get fans to willingly give two precious minutes of their lives to give the unknown bands a chance. Another infuriating trait is that fans love certain sounds their favorite bands produce, yet they don’t like any other bands to give that similar sound. They are automatically “copycat bands”. For example, I love Tool and I want as many new bands as possible who can give me that sound (Source, Wheel, Atonian, Trope, Soen, etc.) since Tool simply doesn’t produce new music often enough to satisfy my thirst. But most Tool fans have no interest in listening to bands who sound similar to Tool (or they ignorantly assume that bands like Chevelle or Deftones is as close to Tool as bands can get).
Legacy bands are another problem. They are (often) mediocre bands who simply had the luxury of being promoted during a time when mainstream music labels still took the rock & metal genre seriously. And those are the only bands many fans care about or focus on. And usually only “their hits”. When legacy bands try to create or play new songs, the audience doesn’t care; they just want the hits played.
Of course, you touched on some other things I agree with, but yea there are many reasons I believe that the rock/metal genre is dying, and both the industry and the fans are to blame.
Grouping Dream Theater and Limp Bizkit in any capacity caught me so off guard
He clearly doesn’t know the band on a deeper level.
@@KosmosDream agreed, I think Polyphia fits this category better than Dream Theater
@@KosmosDreamcould you blame him? He can't possibly be deeply into every band in existence
Both fans are kind of cringe
@@Wailmur He can't certainly not use them as an example. But the problem with his approach is certainly not a random band.
The fact that Rock / metal festival lineups have the same headliners as 2005 2004 system of a down Korn Deftones tool etcetera etcetera is it very terrifying warning sign what happens when these bands finally retire? Are these festivals going to disappear? I mean imagine in 2003 of if led Zeppelin and CCR was headlining Lollapalooza crazy
Well it seems like people still like older music,in other genres it's the same thing too.
I am not saying it's good or bad just it's what it's.
if theres a 3 day fest, I reckon having legacy, high energy, and up and new gen headliners all have their place. Download 2023 had Metallica, Slipknot and Bring me the Horizon, something for everyone imo
@@suddenswarm5944 Bring Me thd Horizon the newest of those 3 formed in 2004
When the legacy bands vanish (because let's face it, a lot of them are getting older ... even bands from early 00's, the members aren't getting younger. Ignoring all the late 80s/early 90s bands ... who are really getting on now) ... I can't really think of what bands will fill those voids on the festival lineups.
Because there aren't really those kinds of bands in the ones that are up and coming at the moment to be the future 'legacy' bands.
@@Notyourbis Part of this too is the fact that going to a festival of any genre cost a shit ton of money these days. The people who can afford it aren't like 19. 20. 21 year olds, for the most part, they're people in their 30s, 40's.
When Foo Fighters are literally the Most Popular Rock Band in the Game you know it's dead.
HipHop is at its absolute Worst too.
Post Modern Pop Culture is Trash. From Music to Movies to Art. Its uninspiring & lowkey depressing..
I've said the same for a long while. If rock kept growing, the Foo would've been done at least 10yrs ago. As mentioned with the "legacy bands", it's a shame that's all we have to still hold on to. I can even still like and respect some of them that are still making new music, but it's a sad state when that's pretty much all there is to still hold on to. Personally I've been digging and branching out to more music around the world, to even more electronic and somewhat pop that I typically didn't think I'd ever go for. There are some interesting things out there, it's just buried in tiny little pockets, spread out and mostly overshadowed by way too much trash that muddies the waters.
@@whois3581 I never looked at it that way!! The reason why the 30 and 40 year old bands are still around is because there are no new replacements. The question is when they're all dead and gone in 10 years, who going to replace the old bands?...
@@raphaellall6270 If nothing changes then all we'll have to look forward to is Limp Bizkit, My Chemical romance and munford and sons doing reunion/farewell shows and touring like kiss and the rolling stones in thier last days at 70yrs old. Except they probably won't be selling out stadiums, but instead play small festivals and county fairs, and that's when we'll know that rock is officially in the grave.
I agree 100%!
❤
The main reason why the Emo Rap scene fluttered away, is because most of its most influential artists that were innovative in the genre, the real ones that made it interesting…died. It’s a sad truth.
Sounds almost like what happened with grudge. Both genres were spearheaded by very emotional, lost, troubled, gifted, talented, unsober individuals. We lost alot of them in a attempt to find thyself and got lost in drugs and depression.
@@dewanewelch1744I mean grunge at least had decent second wave bands or post-grunge whichever you prefer. Nickelback, Seether, Creed, Skillet, Godsmack, Staind, etc.
Only good emo rap I can name are songs like "The Diary" and "Knife Called Lust" by Hollywood Undead. But really those are more like "proto-emo rap", they're from 2008 and combined hip-hop with emo/screamo/alt rock/post-hardcore.
Wtf is rap emo? Sounds awful lol
@@zacharyengle4256 all the post-grunge bands you mentioned are terrible. That "second wave" moved the sound of grunge into the bottom left corner of the chart in this video: formally boring and conceptually uninteresting. Commercial rock
@@michaelegan3522 What do you get when you put metalcore, nu-metal and post grunge in a blender? You guessed it, "BUTT ROCK!"
It’s not that it’s boring, it’s the simple fact that social media gatekeeps talented musicians from ever having a successful career in music, it’s not talent based anymore. It’s about how many followers you have.
There are a couple music channels that post all these albums from around the world, made by bands throughout the 70s (arguably one of the greatest decades for ROCK) that you've never heard of.
I've listened to so many of those albums and omg, how the hell did ANYONE think the majority of them were anything but crap. Like the worst bands and songs and music... So amateur and dull.
LITERALLY UA-cam and Instagram watering down Ichika.
He did something so new and fresh, but he doesn't do anything interesting anymore because he got bills to pay.
@@tan-jello this is true. people nostalgic for the 70s and 80s completely ignore that massive amount of dogshit that those decades produced despite also being some of the best times for rock and metal.
@SmokebongSchwammkopf - As someone who was a teenage in the 80s, I can verify that 75 percent of the music in the 80s was crap. But nobody remembers the crap, they just remember the good stuff.
you might have aa point there, ya damn jock.
The Music space is far too large today for any one genre to hold the top spot. You have to balance that with the music that the media companies force on us as much as they can.
@@theneverwas2835 thats a very good point
I don't agree. I hear Spotify Top 10 stuff all the time at the gym and it seems to all come from just a couple genres: pop country, pop rap, and singer-songwriter pop. Most of it is pretty monotonous. Nothing completely dominating per se, but when has one genre completely dominated?
A 22 minute video about boring music is boring
rock and metal are still cool and creative, they are not mainstream anymore imo because it's not as cheap and fast to make and easy to tour around as stuff like trap or four-on-the-floor pop.
There's great rock music out there. You just gotta dig a little bit.
Bedroom/youtube musicians have taken over the rock space. Tons of amazing talent and virtuosity but they aren't forming bands or really doing anything noteworthy other than creating "content" which is different than creating music.
That’s kinda what art has morphed into. Just content. Movies. Games. Music. It’s like we hit a plateau.
Someone coined the term "Desktop metal"
UA-cam is sporting massive amounts of playing ability. Tons of exceptional players online. What none of them can do is WRITE anything worth playing, they do nothing but play incredibly well-done covers with extreme skill in duplicating somebody else's playing style.
Writing is where it' at and there's none of it. Everyone can play their ass off, nobody knows how to put three or four chords together and write a decent 2- or 3-minute song.
Yep solo artists in their spare room recording band songs without a band
Yeah that’s some upper left quadrant stuff. Please show me one saying something other than “look at how I produced this or how good I am at guitar”
Technology has pushed so much of the innovation of the last 70 years. From the first electric guitar in the 1950s, the first fuzz and distortion pedals in the 1960s, the first synthesizers in the 1970s, the first samplers, and drum machines in the 1980s. Then the 1990s everyone starts to get a PC and a DAW. Thats in many ways defined each era up to now.
I’ve had a weird theory about this for a while. Part of this idea stems from my own experience writing music, but essentially I think that young musicians and bands nowadays think more about showing their music to their families and friends for validation, rather than risking showing the world something new and authentic.
What I mean by that is that we listen to music, love the way something sounds and wish we wrote it, and then turn around and come up with an idea “inspired” heavily by it and can’t wait to prove to those around us how great we sound. To our family and friends that don’t know better it’s amazing, you sound like you could be on the radio, but to the scene as a whole you’re just another copy and paste.
Makes a lot of sense. Me personally, I'd like the validation but at the same time. I write and play to be heard. Recently, I'm starting to play shows when I can. I don't write from inspiration, if I do, it sucks the point of writing for me. So, feeling is everything, especially when coming up with chords, riffs, and so forth.
I guess? What i try making is to not be heavily inspired but morso built off the joy of creation and love for the music that inspires me
A lot of truth in here, but you could apply this point to the vast majority of bands and artists that are revered.
I bet you would find bands you like even come from this place if you read into it enough.
I'm no musician, not even close, but I've had a similar thought for a while now. Every new band that appears on my social media is showing their music by plastering a whole lot of "if you like (at least five bands)" or "for fans of (like three bands, usually sleep token gets included)" which is just ??? that tells me literally nothing about your band, if I like those bands I'll go and listen to them 😭
Or their blurb in Spotify or their website name drops at least 10 musicians and/or bands.... that have nothing to do with them, they're just trying to reach as many people as possible showing off absolutely nothing about them as artists nor the topics that inspire them, there's no substance other than showing off...
so I've been listening to the same bands as always with the few newer groups that catch my attention
There's definitely ground breaking bands out here but ya gotta dig
2:41 "Lemme back up a little" Zooms in
As someone who has been around for half a century, it seems to me people have gotten more boring, especially teens. I’m a teacher and most are just not curious about much at all. If young people are boring they will create boring things.
Rock and metal lost their influence when the fans of such genres started confusing "difficulty" with "good".
In my opinion.
Good point.
#staytech
I absolutely agree . A lot of shredding going on but not a single hook riff that gets stuck in your head .
@@brentwilliams5915 Yup lots of these rock/metal dudes think technicality = good. Composing good songs isn't just playing technical parts.
When punk blew up, it was because everything had become so oversaturated and stuff (as you said), but now, it’s also boring and pretty oversaturated. I think we’re in the ballpark for a new punk or something revolution. One day soon, one day…
Exactly, same with grunge. That's why I love music so much. Everything is new again at some point but also you can't keep creativity down. Genres will ALWAYS reinvent themselves, it usually starts with ONE person or ONE band.
Exactly. Old people like us like old rock music. But new one is running off on me aswell.
And the thing is that the “new punk” won’t sound anything like the punk we’ve heard. It won’t have any ties to the original or mainstream punk music. It’ll be its own new thing and will be punk in spirit. If it happens.
@@jonjonjonjonjonjonjonand because of that it’ll get a lot of negative attention, which will ironically strengthen the punk effect until it becomes the counterculture
It does feel like the time is ripe for another punk/metal breakthrough
Rock and Metal aren't boring now. Even my local scene has amazing bands blowing my mind. Maybe the problem is you.
Best comment here! Thank you!👍🤘😈✌️
Yep my local scene in the uk is pretty amazing tbh
He should say mainstream. Mainstream everything is super lame
@@nicholaskruger9460 He just gave up on the rock-heavy metal personally but stressing about what is going to be the next big sound in the genre? Who cares everything has been done so enjoy the music for what it is or just don't bother with it at all!
Well, I still listen to rock and alt rock radio stations sometimes. Their job is to find good new music to play and that's what the did for decades. Well, now they play essentially no new music. All 60s-early 2000s. When they do play something new it's something like Billie Eilish which is pretty meh. So either there aren't any good new bands or there's some conspiracy to hide them from us.
Gojira just played the Olympics.
Yeah, that's cool but that won't have any impact on music industry or on popculture. It was just fun 1 minute act, that nobody other than metal fans will remember in few months.
And no one noticed.
marrying metal forever with that very gay olympics ceremony
@@agm8088 metal doesn't deserve success if thats going to be yalls takeaway from that
Gojira is way passed their prime, bro. The most culturally relevant metal at the moment is probably black metal, because the black metal scene got a good bit of attention from hipsters and the emo rap community, but that peaked in like 2017. There's still plenty of great rock and metal music, but it's not really relevant within the context of mainstream pop culture anymore, although that's probably not as bad as it sounds because mainstream pop culture has always been kind of boring.
Too be fair, I don't think there's been much innovation in electronic music, rap, or pop music either. The music the public is listening to hasn't really changed a whole lot since the early 2000s. We are in a period of cultural and musical stagnation. How long that will last is anyone's guess.
I think everyone is kind of missing the common factor here: the way people listen to music and learn of new music has changed. There's no MTV or radio with record labels fighting for your attention, it's been replaced by spotify playlists and a million small acts. There's plenty of interesting acts in all genres, but there's much less space in the pop culture sphere. Since there's less space in that pop culture sphere, labels and spotify bet on the safe music the same way movie studios gravitate towards endless superhero movies. There's interesting stuff out there but it's not hitting the mainstream unless the paradigm shifts.
this right here is a huge component of it, music as a whole has been diluted in some ways ( % of innovation ) and more concentrated in others ( curated spotify playlists, betting on safe stuff ), recording music has probably never been easier in history and there are a ton of one person projects that push things, you just have to go more out of you way to find them and the proverbial boat got so big that they won't be able to rock it if you pardon the pun, also this is happening to entertainment at large, movies, tv shows, video games you name it
Don't forget that there are still very large labels, running very expensive campaigns, it's just that now the medium is Spotify, UA-cam, Insta, etc. etc.
Came to the comments to say this, but it would have been nowhere near as awesome as you said it.
so how could it shift?
Art is never boring, it's just the audience. They are spoiled ...
My kid went to go see Green Day and Rancid this weekend. He said it was hard to take the anti-establishment pose seriously. Which is fair. We're just Democrats now and that's ok. 90s punk won. Your mom isn't making you to go to church now.
It’s kind of tough to take someone singing about how the American dream is killing him seriously while he’s sitting on a $100 million.
Yep, and ironically if you want to really piss your mom off you go listen to conservative stuff instead.
I wouldn't dare go to a Green Day show nowadays can't believe anything Billy Joel says biggest hypocrite in wannabe punk rock
Recent history has shown that most punks from the 80s aren’t anti-establishment free-thinking anarchists at all. They only opposed the establishment when it was dominated by conservatives. With progressives in power, they are all for big government and just whine about corporations and Trump. They are and always were envious communist conformists who were just mad at the world because they wanted the power to impose their ideas on everyone else.
Glad you didn't say liberal. You're Neo-Conservatives now. I think George W Bush won.
We’ve finally reached the point where everything that’s been worth doing has been done. Only took 2,024 years
Simpsons did it!
8:56 it’s like when Frank Reynolds played Ongo Goblogian the art collector and his favorite piece was the air conditioner. “Aren’t we all just walking, breathing air conditioners?”
You're right in the way that nobody has done anything new, it's probably because it's hard to do anything new when nearly anything has been done before. Today is the hardest it's ever been to be creatively original.
The internet killed the concept of originality.
its really not hard to do something new, but for it to get mainstream and get normies into it that is the challenge.
You just need to look at the comment sections on posts about new artists from rock media like Kerrang to see why bands are either not pushing boundaries, or they are but are being ignored. It's full of ageist rock 'fans' bashing new young artists based on a photo because they dress differently, smart arse comedians asking "who?" rather than clicking on the article and listening to the music, or just flat out zero engagement. These people aren't interested in discovering new music, they want more of what they like and nothing else. And as much as they hate to admit it, any innovation is most likely going to be seen from the younger acts, not the legacy ones.
I think this is one of the unfortunate side effects of easy internet access and social media...the low attention span everyone has now prevents them from being open to trying new things. They want that reliable dopamine hit and they want it now. We need the audience to slow down and take risks before we can expect the artists to do the same. Obviously some already are, but they're harder to find when the trolls are telling the algorithm that nobody wants to see it 🤷♂
This is a HUGE factor
@@ThePunkRockMBA We need a new internet era where we wake up and realise what we're missing out on! We also need the old men in denim vests to stop shouting at clouds and let the progress in 😂
"They want that reliable dopamine hit and they want it now." Wow, well said!
I used to play a game when watching older music... How long before someone says "they don't make music like this anymore" I don't see it as much now, It's been replaced by "No autotune, just talent"
Sorry, just wrong. We grew up when the record companies were taking chances. They just stopped caring and let the computers figure out what makes money. Eventually everything sounds the same. Fresh energy and originality is returning to rock through bands like the Warning an Freeze the Fall. All young people who developed themselves as independent bands. The Warning turned down Disney and all record deals for six year😢s before finally getting a deal with creative independence. Going to a Warning show next month. They are legendary.
its because the industry wants influencers and models, rather than people who are actually talented or innovative
I think this goes back to monoculture again. In the past the delivery method for music was smaller, we had Mtv or the radio. Labels could take chances on more obscure artists that were maybe outside the prepackaged norm knowing that if anything they’d probably recoup their investment, and best case they’d discover the next big trend if people took a liking to it. These days with music, and film, it seems like taking a chance on something new is too big of a risk, so they play it safe and serve what they know will sell. There are thousands of artists making revolutionary music right this minute, but because of ease of access to recording and distribution they become buried in a sea of saturation that’s really hard to sift through.
The monopolization of the arts industries has also played a role. Less competition in the market place. There's no longer 100's of labels or small movie studios, there's like 10. They have no reason to innovate or take risks. They just need to make their shareholders happy.
Sorry but where is the proof of this revolutionary music?
Well now you need to take a chance on the revolutionary, obscure artists.
Today you won't be spoon fed artists that don't appease the lowest common denominator. Today you have to traverse the Internet, go to a record shop and/or check out your local scene to find music that fits your niche.
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard has been killing it lately.
Fuck yeah.
Gila monster
This video confused me. The whole point was basically that nothing huge has come along to shake up the industry and that music is boring right? Honest question.
Yes
@ThePunkRockMBA ok thank you for responding. Hope you didn't take this as antagonistic or rude. It's still early for me. I agree that nothing big has came around to shake things up and that the majority of the bigger bands and billboard hits are boring, but I listen to such a wide range of music that I don't ever get bored. A lot of metal bands these days also have such unique things they do or blend genres together in ways I never thought was possible, leading to it being my most listened to genre by far. If you see this, do you think that the music that innovates isn't being made and/or do you believe the labels in charge of pushing the music don't push the "scary" innovative music because they fear low sales and interest?
For those that don't know - this is Finn's last video on the channel. He's moving on from UA-cam ):
he's starting only fans or going back to a traditional job?
@@Szczauqa He may have an announcement video about the end of the channel, but he's said in his Discord that he's only going to be posting on LinkedIn going forward. He wants to focus on growing businesses I think
@@Szczauqa not long and onlyfans will be a traditional job :D
I’ll believe it if/when he announces it
I’m not going to announce it, what would be the point of that?
One alternative artist I do think is being arguably more innovative and interesting than most of her peers is Poppy. She keeps doing the most bizarre collabs and continues to crush it.
Poppy is amazing. She's actively releasing music all the time. Her new single is pretty standard hard rock but hopefully it converts the masses. I Disagree is a brilliant album
Agree, she embodies everything that pop fans and metal fans can love
Yeah she did that thing with knocked loose that's pretty awesome
lol underground is blooming, if it's boring to you it means you don't dig deep enough
Born too late to explore the world.....
Borth too early too explore the stars....
Born just in time to watch Metal/Rock turn into a souless husk of what it was
Dam homie. That hit
You're right on two accounts.
And two out of three ain't bad.
But the stars are closer than you think.
Keep an ear out for it...
I guess it’s psychedelics.
A bunch of artists stoned on LSD or cocaine isn't what I call "soul".
Go watch some local bands. I’ll bet there are artists out there that would prove you wrong. Hell, just a couple weeks ago I went to a dive bar and saw two bands from Columbus Missouri and they fucking owned
There is as much great Rock & Metal being produced today as there ever was. You just don’t hear about it because it’s not ‘Mainstream’..
I know what you're saying is probably true, but at the same time rock/metal music just scratches an itch in a way that other genres of music just can't for me. I can't abandon rock just yet, surely it's still got some steam left in the tank?
Music is just too fragmented and that probably won't change. Gone are the days when everyone listened to the same one or two radio stations playing the same songs over and over again. That's how a lot of artists blew up.
It's also how the vast majority of really creative music came to be, from people wanting to rebel against what was popular at the time.
Music and most media is oversaturated now, we have access to anything we want with the swipe of a finger and it's easier for anyone to make their own art public. It's not as exciting because we are overexposed and the internet has made almost every concept not new and controversial anymore.
Stop looking in America. We all lost the plot here. Look at some acts coming out of Asia or Africa. That's where the mind-blowing stuff is coming from. Also, for a laugh, Electric Callboy.
the argument doesn´t make sense for one single reason: the lack of new ideas does not only apply to this genre but to music industry as a whole. Hence, it cannot in and by itself explain the lack of popularity of one specific genre.
Bruh I literally just walked into a gas station and that indie rock song 5:07 just picked up where your video left off lol
Dude, I love those little moments. Especially when out of nowhere you think of a song, then you go somewhere and it's playin.
That shit's not even indie rock its indie pop.
@@goregore6259synchronicity
I belong with youuuuu you belong with meeee my sweeeet HAAAAART
@@Chaz4543 pop folk
There's a lot of innovation in that gap from the Beach Boys to Nine Inch Nails. NIN might have sounded new and interesting, but was nowhere close to the first to introduce popular synth sounds into popular music. New wave and 80s synth bands were hugely popular.
Korn, slipknot, limpbizkit, deftones these are bands i saw many times in festivals in the 90s, same bands in festivals today, thats the problem, nobody is letting new bands hit the big stage so they go unnoticed.
People still can't get over Metallica or Tool either
@IzunaSlap I frankly can't stand Metallica because of how they are always the defacto choice to add metal music in mainstream media. Like guys there's much more you could choose from besides them and AC/DC 🙄
Yeah but the festival aren't going to hire new bands to play if they can't sell enough tickets
Don't give a shit about any of that cultural impact, or mass appeal crap. The underground metal scene has never been healthier, and that's all I care about.
Metal has been going strong! Bands like Erra have been killing it!!!
@@itsoundzgoodERRA was one of the several bands I mentioned in my comment mentioning how this whole video is a braindead take.
Archspire was another one. They do it all: technically impressive musicianship, entertainers on stage (they are fucking hilarious), everything political to comedic lyrical content. That's what I'd call a "top-right" band from this video's metrics.
Pulp Fiction isn't conceptually boring. If it is, then grunge must be as well. Both things changed the landscape of media they're part of. When grunge was an answer to unauthentic mainstream music of the late 80s, Pulp Fiction was the same thing in the movie industry. You should watch some Tarantino interviews about his creative direction and motives when creating Pulp Fiction.
I think the main problem for music as a whole is the way it’s consumed now. When artists have to continually release music to stay relevant instead of being able to have a solid touring cycle and then time to actually write and develop a concept and execute it. Artists are pressured to release songs that I believe would not of seen the light of day 20-30 years ago. Also artists struggle to make a living from music so the. You factor in stuff like having a job to pay bills. I think it’s refreshing to see more genre blending. Also there are multiple non mainstream genres seeing a lot of success right now and could see them becoming even more popular because the bands blowing up are great bands with great people in them. They are definitely bands that will spend time with fans and make people want to support them even more.
I think the problem is social media. People would rather follow people and podcasts than actually go out and see live acts. There are tons of live acts that are still selling out places. And up here in New England there is a really big underground music scene. There are tons of great shows every weekend. But the problem is people aren’t coming as much as they used to because they’d rather stay home.there’s a lot for Band to say these days. Just last weekend one place was holding hip-hop and R&B, another one had metal, and one place even did a street where each house had a different band playing. It was pretty cool.
I probably didn’t totally get to what I was saying in that last statement. My point was each place I went to each band had something to say and it was pretty interesting. And there is still those who pushed the boundaries of music. The thing is, they’re just not asexposed as they probably should be
Yeah I think what he forgot to mention is how social media and tech has completely changed the scene. There's still a lot more that can be done with rock, I just think there's a lot less people trying to be so bold as to try something fresh than there used to be.
I agree
Nobody would “rather stay home” EDM shows and festivals are more popular than ever and selling out in every state. That is just cope to say that
@@808slumpsi think live music in every genre attract more people than ever before,there are statistics about that out there,the problem is all with the narrative
1:26 Rock and metal sucks today because there are only two levels of success: Making absolutely zero money or being a watered down consumer friendly sellout. When was the last time rock or metal had a true artistic success story?
I am finding the most new music now than I have at any other time in my life, I'm 43. I'm finding new bands I like as well as new music by bands I've been following for 5, 10, 20+ years.
Gojira at the Olympics pulled off a great show, not boring and definitely moving forward.
It was a big moment for THEM. Completely irrelevant for rock in the grand scheme of things. Is the top 40 filled with Gojira-like bands as a result? Are teenagers blown away and completely inspired by Gojira now sparking a new ground shifting cultural movement the likes of hair metal, punk or grunge? No. It was a big moment for an older band. And now it’s over.
@@stewartdowouis9218 For Gojira, it opened up metal to a few of my acquaintances who would never have listened, though they are all 40+
For the kids, there's plenty of metal coming from overseas.
@@stewartdowouis9218 Who cares about filling the top 40 ?
How does making it to the top 40 makes a song innovating or even good ?
Most Metal artists are looking for the right niche genre that fits them, or most likely create it, not to please everyone... especially not pleasing everyone.
And they'll have cultural impact when other artists that have content matching their niche will reference them.
@@BIackstrengthThis entire video is about the cultural/commercial viability of rock, not whether or not rock is/can still be good.
@@stewartdowouis9218 No, it's not.
The title is about Rock & Metal being boring. And the main argument he had is that Rock & Metal now would lack innovation and concepts beyond technical prowess.
And yeah, he tries some appeals to popularity as I said, that is totally meaningless.
As for cultural significance... He himself made a video about how important the modern metal soundtrack was in DOOM.
Oh it's quite simple. Not just rock/metal being boring, but all music. The world was boring from 1950-2010, so music was exciting. But over the last 15 years, and especially the last five, the rolls have swapped. The world is now a messy, chaotic, unstable place where you can't catch your breath. So now music has become the stable, predictable, safe thing.
The world now looks like how NIN sounded like. You think artists these days can be more bold and striking than a world gone mad?
You sure nothing chaotic happened in between 1950-2010
@@Connorb2008 Oh stuff did happen. But it did peter out. Since the housing crisis, we've been on a downward slope of sustained chaos that no one can get away from.
You pretty much skip over metal. Right from punk to grunge then to emo. Metal, thrash, industrial had almost 20 years of being good and cutting edge. Grunge was/is highly overstated and overrated., It had a high point of 4-5 years in the early 90s and it's mostly crap. Alice in Chains was good, but Nirvana and Pearl Jam were not that innovative and were just an extensive of alternative rock because people had gotten bored with hair bands. I was never a fan. And hip is long since played out and redundant. Talk about a lack of new ideas and appealing to the lowest level of music fans..
A guy like Max Cavalera keeps metal going because he loves it and it's not about becoming rich or playing the biggest arenas.
Rock and metal are NOT boring now, it's as good as it's ever been. The problem is that it's not widespread or mainstream. All anyone is exposed to now (those who don't know where to look) is plastic music-product. There is EXCELLENT rock and metal being made today, all over; you just need to know where to find it.
name one current rock song that could be put up there with any single from in utero by nirvana
Widespread? Dude we have phones now that lock us into current news and trends that argument is moot this day and age with the advent of of the rise of social media of the past 10 years.
20 years ago that would have held water but not in this time.
Where?
@@Joe-po9xn everywhere. Not any 1 place. You won't find it on the radio or on tv.
@@refluxcatalyst7190who the hell still listens to the radio or watches tv? Everyone just listens to playlists and streams shows of their choosing nowadays
Y’all are trippin’
KING GIZZARD AND THE LIZARD WIZARD are changing the game. If you don’t know, your ass better call somebody.
MOOOOOOTAH
Yea I can respect them, but at the same time, they can get pretty cheesy too. Essentially a jam band that throws everything against the wall. Their editing floor is empty. Not always such a great thing. "Ohh, I made a sound. Let's put out four albums based on that!"
Not really. Everything I've ever heard from them sounds like something I've already heard before. I'm so confused when I hear people say they're "breaking new ground"
Explain to me like I am 5 how they are breaking new ground. 😂😂
@@SamBrockmann See, a few albums back they created the genre known as "thrash metal". This was the first time music like that had ever been played
I’m 40. Lately I’ve been going backwards and getting into all the classic bands that I thought were “old and boring” as a kid. Zep, SRV, all those. Damn I really missed out lol but it’s nice to have this generation worth of untapped music to hear for the first time
This ended quite sadly.....if rock is dead then it had a good run etc. I can't imagine a world without guitar-driven music. That's scary.
It isn't dying. There is literally new music being released all the time.
Yeah this dude doesn't know what he is talking about but like someone said here in the comment section that maybe the problem is him and not the music itself! Rock and metal will always evolve faster than him getting tired of the music because he is not looking in the right places instead of just searching through the mainstream media to look for something groundbreaking!
Any genre will get boring after you listen to for 20-30 years straight.
I don’t get this. Like I truly don’t understand- can someone please explain to me why the statement of “there are no other boundaries to be pushed culturally and sonically” keeps being made? There is so much to be explored creatively- it’s insane. Endless ideas. I just don’t get why people keep saying that.
In a time wherein we are bombarded with sound (noise), and everybody and their grandma can produce music, strangely, there seems to be less variety or innovation. It's like when there are too many choices, quality is sacrificed to quantity.
I can't help that feel that this video has a 'i am from marketing' type of energy and so does this channel
What do you think MBA means?
@ThePunkRockMBA masters of business. But there seems to be something wrong with 'business' on macro level. There's a lack of satisfaction on the consumer side that is starting to grow.
Part of the problem stems from smart phone culture. People aren’t conversing anymore. Language, in general, has lost the art of nuance and double entendre, not to mention things are either flat out vulgar, or they are rated G. We used to live in a society where PG-13 comedies were commonplace. Now, we have Cardie B rapping about her WAP on Nickelodeon.
There’s so much underground metal that is painfully good.
I think the most in decades to be honest.
@@hunterdelaghetto I agree
Bands?
@@Joe-po9xn heriot, civerous, maul, spectral wound, vorga, hellripper, devil master and some more bands that are more well known in the metal scene like; gatecreeper, 200 stab wounds and frozen soul.
@@sambridges6647 All the bands listed are unintelligible screaming, which has also been done to death. That's not a criticism, just an observation.
pulp fiction has the conceptually interesting story of a gangster who changes his way. a villain's redemption, if you will.
very long explanation for I'm getting old and can't get into new music anymore. 👴
This is completely un-true. There are great rock songs being made today. They just aren’t ‘Mainstream’..
Artists such as:
-Royal Blood
-QOTSA
-Arctic Monkeys
-Death From Above 1979
-Rival Sons
-Larkin Poe
I think another lean to your topic IMO is also the current engineering (purified guitar tones and compressed drum kits) is where there is a "sounds a lot like" vibe regardless of the musicianship and arrangement abilities.
I think AI has a large role in this
If every artist is using it as a tool to create, nothing is going to sound unique or new
Is it such a bad thing though? Does everything have to be the most groundbreaking thing ever? I understand what you’re saying. Society has changed mostly. To the point where everything seems to wide open. Rock isn’t out of gas. Rock music used to scare the hell out of people back in the day. But it’s hard to do that now. But to me I feel like it’s a time where everyone kinda listens to what they enjoy. Or depending on mood. Also, there is almost zero reward in making albums now. Making money in the music industry has almost disappeared. Everything about music as a whole has changed. Most people don’t even seem to want hear anything new anymore. Just what I have noticed. I’m no one. Just a tiny Microscopic part of todays music business.
That hit me hard and I hafta agree.
It's always a amusing treat to see what old man yelling at clouds is yelling about this time lol
Last month you complained about metalcore changing and this month you're complaining about bands and musicians not changing and innovating. So which is it? lmao
Here's the problem with your argument, at the beginning you say you're not talking about popularity and your whole argument is about being popular enough to change the cultural zeitgeist. Rock and metal just isn't as popular as it once was, not because they're not good or interesting, but because mainstream tastes have changed. It happens.
Anytime there's a new music movement they get defanged. Over time a genre gets watered down. Example: punk goes pop punk goes mall emo the apple commercial music like the Lumineers. A good way to judge a dying genre is: are they promoting the media/government message? Is Disney wearing genre like a costume? The band wants to make money. They want to promote the mandated message of the day. It's all one big psyop.
Doom 2016 was the last big moment we had.
You forget Gojira at the Olympics this year.❤
@@doublewhat07hopefully that brings some needed attention to the metal scene and put pressure to innovate
Doom soundtrack and Author & Punisher were probably the two best things to come out of the mid '10s. I've never heard another artist like Author & Punisher. If they exist please send links.
Eh, that was Emo Pop in the mid-late 00s which was the last rock subgenre to be popular before the genre crashed and burned in mainstream popularity alongside Post Grunge after that genre fell off
You obviously don't diversify your listening habits much. I hear amazing new music almost weekly.
Have you heard the band 1876? They're a Native American punk rock band and I think they're pretty awesome. They include Native American drums in their music.
Dead Pioneers another new/interesting punk band with Native American frontman. Bad Indian is one of the first new punk songs I've heard in a while to actually get me fired up. Like a protest/political Hold Steady.
Music is owned by corporations and the internet tells kids what’s cool now, not the other way around
I will add in another factor here, I think the 70s, 80s, and 90s, brought about a more conformist society where everyone listened to what was popular, cool, or groovy in those times. Nowadays, we’re in such a melting pot of music and everyone reminisces about different time periods and different emotional experiences and therefore everyone just has different musical tastes. I think this dilution is another factor in why rock has lost overall popularity and relevance to society as a whole.