the LUT capability is a way under-marketed feature, that alone makes it worth switching from direct HDMI input from our PTZOptics to passing SDI through one of these to fix up the less-than-optimal color. Thanks!
Wow! I literally asked you a question on a previous video about how to get Tally to work using the Micro Converter and you answered it already in this video. I had no idea you can set the device ID on the device itself. Good call! THANK YOU, DOUG! I love your videos!
Undocumented behavior of BMD Mini/Micro Converters: Apple Mac Mini HDMI ports can be configured to output 1080p59.94 video signals, which is important for compatibility with BMD ATEM Television Studio HD 3G-SDI inputs. Both BMD BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 3G and BMD UpDownCross HD converters claim to work compatibly at this frame rate, but in practice they don't. The BiDirectional 3G converts the 1080p59.94 HDMI signal to 1080p60. The UpDownCross HD converts the 1080p59.94 HDMI signal to 1080p30, even when its hardware dip switches are set to 1080p59.94. I tested these BMD converters using an Extron DSC 301 HD converter, which can report precisely which HD signal it is receiving. These BMD converters simply do not work as advertised.
The biggest pitfall I've seen with BMD hardware is their tendency to default to 3G level B signals. Other manufacturers' SDI hardware seems to expect level A.
Actually, was on a pretty big ob somewhat recently where the ob trucks wanted level b from all integration partners.... 400 cameras plus size ob. There were also sending us level b returns too. Wasn’t black magic in the trucks either, I asked.
First of all, thanks a lot for all the info! Your channel is amazing! I have a big question and I think you're the person to guide me... My computer doesn't have Thunderbolt 3 and I'm looking to clean my colour feed coming out from my laptop, that actually allows 4K output, to send my color grading signal (DaVinci Resolve) to a 4K monitor : - Does the "Micro Converter BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G" help me to clean my colour feed from my GPU HDMI computer output to my monitor? Like the UltraStudio... As I said, my laptop doesn't have Thunderbolt and I'm just looking for an option, not that expensive, to send a better signal to my monitor. Thanks a lot in advance.
Without a Thunderbolt port, your options are more limited. I'd steer clear of any USB-based solution. USB doesn't have enough bandwidth to provide high quality, uncompressed video at any resolution you might need. The next best option is to just use the HDMI output on your computer. And then get (or rent/borrow) a color calibration device to calibrate your display for accurate color and response curves every few months. The least expensive calibration device that I could recommend is the Calibrite Display SL (product info & purchase links: djp.li/displaysl ). I know most people buy products in the Spyder line from datacolor, but in my experience they are junk and unreliable and you're better off doing nothing than calibrating with their devices and software.
My Church is streaming on UA-cam. There was a problem after running HDMI and SDI cables (with converters) from cameras to ATEM mini pro. Cameras turn off at random times and turn on after some time. There may be a problem with signal amplifiers, but what? Maybe the wires are too long? We can't figure out the problem for a long time.
If I use a HDMI to SDI Blackmagic mini or micro converter to run two SDI signals into a ATEM Constellation HD ME2, does it work the same way a DeckLink Duo would as far as sending multiple signals from Propresenter 7 on my Mac min into the switcher in order to display different content on screens?
They’re not the same. The DeckLink is not a desktop display device, so it has to have explicit support in the application you are using, like ProPresenter. The HDMI (native or converted from USB-C) are desktop display outputs, so you’ll literally see the user interface for the applications you’re running on your computer. On top of that, Apple Silicon based Mac Minis only support two outputs, so if you were to connect those outputs to the HDMI to SDI converters and want to see something different on another monitor, we’ll, you can’t because you’re out of supported outputs. If your intent is to mirror your desktop to your switcher, then the HDMI to SDI converters have you covered. But the two types of devices are handled very differently.
No. They can't. EDID requires a bi-directional connection, and SDI is unidirectional. In professional video we don't want our devices trying to negotiate signal types anyway -- we need for that to be predictable and reliable.
Is this possible with the BMD Mini Converter UpDownCross: connect an HDMI source to HDMI in, output from SDI out, and HDMI out and get a signal from both outputs; OR connect an SDI source to SDI in, output from SDI out, and HDMI out and get a signal from both outputs? In other words, four connections are connected, but only one input and two outputs are used at one time. SDI input is from a video source HDMI input is from a laptop HDMI output goes to a monitor SDI output goes to a monitor (through a BMD SDI to HDMI converter)
Hi group, to my great surprise, my ''HDMI to SDI'' does not connect to my ''Budget SDI to HDMI'' What option should I choose to make them communicate? PS: Thanks for this video!!!
What signal format are you shooting? Does it happen to be 1080p50 or 1080p60? If so, you've probably run into a 3G-SDI Level A/B incompatibilty issue. And if so, you can plug the Blackmagic converter into your computer, run the Setup software, and change from Level B to Level A.
Does anyone know where to find the software for the h.264 Pro Recorder? Looking on the BD Support website is futile, only software updates, not the actual software!
Considering it doesn't work on any operating system released since at least 2012, it isn't surprising that Blackmagic doesn't really offer support for it any longer.
Have you used the UpDownCross HD converter? I have an SD 16:9 25PsF camera. The converter can do the desqueeze just fine and it does support outputting 25PsF but it appears to me that if I try to convert 25PsF to 25p it doesn't actually reconstruct the frame but runs deinterlace. Now if I move the camera even slightly, I get stripes in the picture, which definitely wouldn't happen with true PsF -> p. As far as I understand the SD SDI 25PsF is pretty hacky. It doesn't tag the 16:9 squeeze nor PsF, where as newer formats can mark if the signal is PsF.
You'd want a product with a proper deinterlacer like the Teranex Express/AV. Deinterlacing properly is really hard and the inexpensive converters won't do a good job of that.
@@djp_video yeah, I have heard the big Teranex boxes would do it the right way. Well, unless it becomes useful for something else, I don't think it's worth for old SD cameras at this point :)
The 12G bidrectional converter is not automatically converting down to 1080 for my small hd monitor that tops out at 1080.I am sending out 4K UHD from a RED Komodo to the converter to the monitor and I am not getting video. Any suggestions?
The Bi-directional Micro Converters won't do frame rate conversion, so if the frame rate of the camera isn't supported by the monitor (i.e. if the camera is outputting at 24fps but the monitor only supports 60fps) you might need a more sophisticated converter.
Hey guys.. i’d have to share with you an issue Regarding HDMI to SDI converter and ATEM 1 M/E STANDARDS we have canon XF105 cameras That has only fbs of (50i/25p) connected to ATEM via SDI Cable and it works only while choosing 1080i50 standard. In the other hand we have BMD POKET CAMERA 6K Pro connected to the switcher via HDMI to SDI converter . That doesn’t work at that standard. The BMD Camera works on 1080p50 or 24,… it depends on frame rate on camera at both levels A&B! Is there any way to let the ATEM switcher recognize both cameras??
With the ATEM 1 M/E switcher all of your video sources have to be the same video format, and it has to match whatever format the switcher is set to. In your case you'll need to add a converter to one of the cameras to change the format before it gets to the switcher. The two that I recommend for most cases are the Decimator MD-HX djp.li/mdhx and Blackmagic UpDownCrossHD djp.li/udchd.
Generally speaking that is true. The exception is the 12G versions, which will down-convert 4K to 1080p if the connected display/device doesn't support 4K.
For the micro converter sdi to hdmi 3g to work with luts it looks like you need a USB 2 port on your computer to set it up. Really strange when the unit itself has a USB C port but that is the only way I have managed to make it work with my two units. I tried with both PCs and Macs and the only computer that it worked with is an old Asus rig running win 10 with USB 2 ports.
The converters work fine with USB 3 ports. I used USB 3 ports when making this video. It also doesn't matter whether you use USB A or USB C as long as you have the proper cable. (Make sure you're using a data cable rather than just a charging cable, as they are different.) If a device is on a newer firmware version than the installed software knows how to recognize they just won't show up. Make sure you have the latest software. Occasionally in Windows the devices will get added to Device Manager without a driver (for example, it is plugged in before the software is installed), and this will cause the devices to not show up in their setup applications. If this is the case it can be fixed by opening Device Manager, finding the devices (often under the Other category), and highlighting them and deleting them. After unplugging and plugging back in the driver will be reinstalled.
Do others have problems with the bi-directional micro HDMI / SDI converters not sending a signal and needing power cycling? I have to power cycle mine every couple of days :( The 12G also runs REALLY hot. On the plus side I love the ability to add LUTS in some of the converters. Thanks Doug for the previous video on rhat.
Ok so i have a laptop hdmi out with an A/V feed from OBS to bidirectional hdmi to sdi with a hdmi out to a boxcaster and sdi out to second bidirectional hdmi to sdi. That second converter has a hdmi out to an audio extractor and monitor. Im getting a half second skip in audio every 20 seconds Anyone know why I’m getting the audio blip issue? I tried updating the converters but it did not fix it. So frustrating. It makes our church broadcast unusable. Please help.
What frame rate are you using? Is there a mismatch between the source feeding OBS and OBS's settings? (For example, OBS set to 29.97 fps where the video going into OBS is at 30 fps, or vice versa) What is the source of the audio? If you make a recording in OBS does it also have the same audio sync issue?
The BMD website is not very intuitive. I wish they would just put the software, specs and documentation on the product page. Also, don't combine manuals for all the different ATEM mini models. It just adds to the confusion of which atem mini has which features. It's lazy, and makes using the manuals tedious especially when some models don't support certain features.
The video production world as a whole isn't very invested into Linux. Even Macs get left out quite a bit. Blackmagic is one of the better companies when it comes to supporting OSes other than Windows. Ultimately, at some point, you'll need a Windows machine somewhere if you want to play and not make significant sacrifices in product availability or compatibility, for better or worse.
Thanks for the video Doug. I always wondered what the capabilities were, but of course I usually don’t read the manuals on the small stuff. By the way, why doesn’t BMD go the Open Source route when it comes to camera control, intercom etc.? (so we can communicate and control other brands of equipment)
The Blackmagic cameras are okay. You can get cameras with a better quality image for the same or less money. But nobody else offers remote control capability quite like BMD.
in my expirience you only need to set cam id on the microconverter if you use it with a sdi based atem. HDMI based atem send the ccu & tally info out of the hdmi input (CEC), but only send it for the specific cam. So input 1 only outputs stuff for cam 1, input 2 for cam 2, .... (While an sdi return contains ccu, tally and intercom for all cams) Thats why an pocket cinema cam on an atem mini does not need to set any cam id, because there is only data for one cam. see the drawing i made: i.imgur.com/K9VbN80.jpg
With an ATEM Mini, the Camera ID in the converter and SDI camera just have to match one another... they don't have to be the same as the ATEM input channel number, though. But with an SDI switcher and HDMI camera, the converter's ID has to match the switcher input channel number.
![Which Converter Do You Need? [EVERY Blackmagic Model, Explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U-65tUcQMRw/mqdefault.jpg)
the LUT capability is a way under-marketed feature, that alone makes it worth switching from direct HDMI input from our PTZOptics to passing SDI through one of these to fix up the less-than-optimal color. Thanks!
Wow! I literally asked you a question on a previous video about how to get Tally to work using the Micro Converter and you answered it already in this video. I had no idea you can set the device ID on the device itself. Good call! THANK YOU, DOUG! I love your videos!
My man. Fast becoming a blackmagic expert. I have couple of these units gathering dust.
Very good job !
I admit to not having read the instructions for these little devices which I thought were completely locked!
Thanks
I have a load of these, some older ones and have never looked at the configuration software. Thanks for this video, I will investigate.
Undocumented behavior of BMD Mini/Micro Converters: Apple Mac Mini HDMI ports can be configured to output 1080p59.94 video signals, which is important for compatibility with BMD ATEM Television Studio HD 3G-SDI inputs. Both BMD BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 3G and BMD UpDownCross HD converters claim to work compatibly at this frame rate, but in practice they don't. The BiDirectional 3G converts the 1080p59.94 HDMI signal to 1080p60. The UpDownCross HD converts the 1080p59.94 HDMI signal to 1080p30, even when its hardware dip switches are set to 1080p59.94. I tested these BMD converters using an Extron DSC 301 HD converter, which can report precisely which HD signal it is receiving. These BMD converters simply do not work as advertised.
Thanks you this was very useful
The biggest pitfall I've seen with BMD hardware is their tendency to default to 3G level B signals. Other manufacturers' SDI hardware seems to expect level A.
It depends. My Sony cameras also use Level B, for example. Level A is more common in broadcast level gear.
@@djp_video What's the visual difference?
There isn't any.
Actually, was on a pretty big ob somewhat recently where the ob trucks wanted level b from all integration partners.... 400 cameras plus size ob. There were also sending us level b returns too. Wasn’t black magic in the trucks either, I asked.
First of all, thanks a lot for all the info! Your channel is amazing!
I have a big question and I think you're the person to guide me... My computer doesn't have Thunderbolt 3 and I'm looking to clean my colour feed coming out from my laptop, that actually allows 4K output, to send my color grading signal (DaVinci Resolve) to a 4K monitor :
- Does the "Micro Converter BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G" help me to clean my colour feed from my GPU HDMI computer output to my monitor? Like the UltraStudio... As I said, my laptop doesn't have Thunderbolt and I'm just looking for an option, not that expensive, to send a better signal to my monitor.
Thanks a lot in advance.
Without a Thunderbolt port, your options are more limited.
I'd steer clear of any USB-based solution. USB doesn't have enough bandwidth to provide high quality, uncompressed video at any resolution you might need.
The next best option is to just use the HDMI output on your computer. And then get (or rent/borrow) a color calibration device to calibrate your display for accurate color and response curves every few months. The least expensive calibration device that I could recommend is the Calibrite Display SL (product info & purchase links: djp.li/displaysl ). I know most people buy products in the Spyder line from datacolor, but in my experience they are junk and unreliable and you're better off doing nothing than calibrating with their devices and software.
My Church is streaming on UA-cam. There was a problem after running HDMI and SDI cables (with converters) from cameras to ATEM mini pro. Cameras turn off at random times and turn on after some time. There may be a problem with signal amplifiers, but what? Maybe the wires are too long? We can't figure out the problem for a long time.
Thanks, very helpfull information.
If I use a HDMI to SDI Blackmagic mini or micro converter to run two SDI signals into a ATEM Constellation HD ME2, does it work the same way a DeckLink Duo would as far as sending multiple signals from Propresenter 7 on my Mac min into the switcher in order to display different content on screens?
They’re not the same. The DeckLink is not a desktop display device, so it has to have explicit support in the application you are using, like ProPresenter. The HDMI (native or converted from USB-C) are desktop display outputs, so you’ll literally see the user interface for the applications you’re running on your computer. On top of that, Apple Silicon based Mac Minis only support two outputs, so if you were to connect those outputs to the HDMI to SDI converters and want to see something different on another monitor, we’ll, you can’t because you’re out of supported outputs. If your intent is to mirror your desktop to your switcher, then the HDMI to SDI converters have you covered. But the two types of devices are handled very differently.
Do these converters send edid data over the sdi cable?
No. They can't. EDID requires a bi-directional connection, and SDI is unidirectional. In professional video we don't want our devices trying to negotiate signal types anyway -- we need for that to be predictable and reliable.
Should I get bidirectional micro converter or the other one ? Apart from cost.
What do you need it for?
@@djp_video just multiple long distance 50m+ SDI cables for cameras and displays.
new update from BMD, the price for SDI to HDMI and bidirectional are the same now, getting just bidirectional now onwards,
Is there a good alternative for the blackmagic design converters?
There are a lot... AJA, Datavideo, Decimator, Swit, just to name a handful.
@@djp_video Thanks for the reply. How about the avmatrix? I've seen that on some of your videos. Is it reliable?
They're a value brand. Generic Chinese stuff with a brand name thrown on it. At least a step below Blackmagic in terms of quality.
Is this possible with the BMD Mini Converter UpDownCross: connect an HDMI source to HDMI in, output from SDI out, and HDMI out and get a signal from both outputs; OR connect an SDI source to SDI in, output from SDI out, and HDMI out and get a signal from both outputs?
In other words, four connections are connected, but only one input and two outputs are used at one time.
SDI input is from a video source
HDMI input is from a laptop
HDMI output goes to a monitor
SDI output goes to a monitor (through a BMD SDI to HDMI converter)
Both outputs are always active. But only one input is active at any given time.
Hi group, to my great surprise, my ''HDMI to SDI'' does not connect to my ''Budget SDI to HDMI'' What option should I choose to make them communicate? PS: Thanks for this video!!!
What signal format are you shooting? Does it happen to be 1080p50 or 1080p60? If so, you've probably run into a 3G-SDI Level A/B incompatibilty issue. And if so, you can plug the Blackmagic converter into your computer, run the Setup software, and change from Level B to Level A.
Does anyone know where to find the software for the h.264 Pro Recorder? Looking on the BD Support website is futile, only software updates, not the actual software!
Considering it doesn't work on any operating system released since at least 2012, it isn't surprising that Blackmagic doesn't really offer support for it any longer.
Have you used the UpDownCross HD converter? I have an SD 16:9 25PsF camera. The converter can do the desqueeze just fine and it does support outputting 25PsF but it appears to me that if I try to convert 25PsF to 25p it doesn't actually reconstruct the frame but runs deinterlace. Now if I move the camera even slightly, I get stripes in the picture, which definitely wouldn't happen with true PsF -> p.
As far as I understand the SD SDI 25PsF is pretty hacky. It doesn't tag the 16:9 squeeze nor PsF, where as newer formats can mark if the signal is PsF.
You'd want a product with a proper deinterlacer like the Teranex Express/AV. Deinterlacing properly is really hard and the inexpensive converters won't do a good job of that.
@@djp_video yeah, I have heard the big Teranex boxes would do it the right way. Well, unless it becomes useful for something else, I don't think it's worth for old SD cameras at this point :)
The 12G bidrectional converter is not automatically converting down to 1080 for my small hd monitor that tops out at 1080.I am sending out 4K UHD from a RED Komodo to the converter to the monitor and I am not getting video. Any suggestions?
The Bi-directional Micro Converters won't do frame rate conversion, so if the frame rate of the camera isn't supported by the monitor (i.e. if the camera is outputting at 24fps but the monitor only supports 60fps) you might need a more sophisticated converter.
@@djp_video You answered it on another video. Apparently, the bidirectional converter can only downsample sdi to hdmi, not sdi to sdi (bummer).
I have a question, does the Blackmagic Design Mini Converter SDI to Analog 4K convert only to analog signal or to SDI from analog?
It converts one way -- from SDI to Analog. They have another model, the Analog to SDI, which will go the other direction.
@@djp_video thank you
Hey guys.. i’d have to share with you an issue Regarding HDMI to SDI converter and ATEM 1 M/E STANDARDS
we have canon XF105 cameras That has only fbs of (50i/25p) connected to ATEM via SDI Cable and it works only while choosing 1080i50 standard. In the other hand we have BMD POKET CAMERA 6K Pro connected to the switcher via HDMI to SDI converter . That doesn’t work at that standard.
The BMD Camera works on 1080p50 or 24,… it depends on frame rate on camera at both levels A&B!
Is there any way to let the ATEM switcher recognize both cameras??
With the ATEM 1 M/E switcher all of your video sources have to be the same video format, and it has to match whatever format the switcher is set to. In your case you'll need to add a converter to one of the cameras to change the format before it gets to the switcher. The two that I recommend for most cases are the Decimator MD-HX djp.li/mdhx and Blackmagic UpDownCrossHD djp.li/udchd.
@@djp_video I would thank you for your helpful, useful, fast response 🙏🏼
So… the micro converters don’t change the resolution at all? I can’t feed a 1080p signal into it and output a 480i?
Generally speaking that is true. The exception is the 12G versions, which will down-convert 4K to 1080p if the connected display/device doesn't support 4K.
@@djp_video saved me money and a bigger headache than I already have 👍
For the micro converter sdi to hdmi 3g to work with luts it looks like you need a USB 2 port on your computer to set it up. Really strange when the unit itself has a USB C port but that is the only way I have managed to make it work with my two units. I tried with both PCs and Macs and the only computer that it worked with is an old Asus rig running win 10 with USB 2 ports.
The converters work fine with USB 3 ports. I used USB 3 ports when making this video. It also doesn't matter whether you use USB A or USB C as long as you have the proper cable. (Make sure you're using a data cable rather than just a charging cable, as they are different.)
If a device is on a newer firmware version than the installed software knows how to recognize they just won't show up. Make sure you have the latest software.
Occasionally in Windows the devices will get added to Device Manager without a driver (for example, it is plugged in before the software is installed), and this will cause the devices to not show up in their setup applications. If this is the case it can be fixed by opening Device Manager, finding the devices (often under the Other category), and highlighting them and deleting them. After unplugging and plugging back in the driver will be reinstalled.
Do others have problems with the bi-directional micro HDMI / SDI converters not sending a signal and needing power cycling? I have to power cycle mine every couple of days :( The 12G also runs REALLY hot.
On the plus side I love the ability to add LUTS in some of the converters. Thanks Doug for the previous video on rhat.
Yes, sometimes they suddenly stop working for unknown reason. Only power cycling will then bring them back to work.
Ok so i have a laptop hdmi out with an A/V feed from OBS to bidirectional hdmi to sdi with a hdmi out to a boxcaster and sdi out to second bidirectional hdmi to sdi. That second converter has a hdmi out to an audio extractor and monitor.
Im getting a half second skip in audio every 20 seconds
Anyone know why I’m getting the audio blip issue? I tried updating the converters but it did not fix it.
So frustrating. It makes our church broadcast unusable. Please help.
What frame rate are you using? Is there a mismatch between the source feeding OBS and OBS's settings? (For example, OBS set to 29.97 fps where the video going into OBS is at 30 fps, or vice versa) What is the source of the audio? If you make a recording in OBS does it also have the same audio sync issue?
Ill check frame rates but i think they are all 30 or 60
No skip in obs recording
Only boxcaster
Audio is coming from X32 soundboard
All frame rates match. Im at a loss.
I didn't know that they even had an interface
The BMD website is not very intuitive. I wish they would just put the software, specs and documentation on the product page. Also, don't combine manuals for all the different ATEM mini models. It just adds to the confusion of which atem mini has which features. It's lazy, and makes using the manuals tedious especially when some models don't support certain features.
Unfortunately there seems to be no linux version of that software. That's a shame, since all our video editing computers are running linux only.
The video production world as a whole isn't very invested into Linux. Even Macs get left out quite a bit. Blackmagic is one of the better companies when it comes to supporting OSes other than Windows. Ultimately, at some point, you'll need a Windows machine somewhere if you want to play and not make significant sacrifices in product availability or compatibility, for better or worse.
You should do a video on the sync box... have one and it escapes me
The Sync Generator? I don't have one to demo.
I talked about all of the synchronization signals in this video: ua-cam.com/video/yUn8mMQ0JGg/v-deo.html
Thanks for the video Doug. I always wondered what the capabilities were, but of course I usually don’t read the manuals on the small stuff. By the way, why doesn’t BMD go the Open Source route when it comes to camera control, intercom etc.? (so we can communicate and control other brands of equipment)
There aren't any official standards for any of those things -- each manufacturer does it their own way
I heard that's great cameras. Tho I don't own any. UA-cam's ghost A.I. seems to be wanting me to buy a black magic camera. Ha. Ha.
The Blackmagic cameras are okay. You can get cameras with a better quality image for the same or less money. But nobody else offers remote control capability quite like BMD.
in my expirience you only need to set cam id on the microconverter if you use it with a sdi based atem.
HDMI based atem send the ccu & tally info out of the hdmi input (CEC), but only send it for the specific cam. So input 1 only outputs stuff for cam 1, input 2 for cam 2, .... (While an sdi return contains ccu, tally and intercom for all cams)
Thats why an pocket cinema cam on an atem mini does not need to set any cam id, because there is only data for one cam.
see the drawing i made: i.imgur.com/K9VbN80.jpg
With an ATEM Mini, the Camera ID in the converter and SDI camera just have to match one another... they don't have to be the same as the ATEM input channel number, though. But with an SDI switcher and HDMI camera, the converter's ID has to match the switcher input channel number.