Another option is to use AirPlay to an AppleTV. Run an ethernet drop and USB-C NIC to the presenter. If EDID+Decimator fails, have the presenter share to your AppleTV. The AppleTV supports NTSC frame rates. On my Intel NVIDIA GPU MacBook Pro I had HDMI just stop working one day. Resetting NVRAM did the trick.
Perfect timing. I spent a few hours just before watching this trying to get 1080p59.94 out of an m2 studio into an ATEm via Decimator. No dice. On an Intel Mac “switchrezX” worked pretty well but could not work on the studio. Ordered one of the edid item last night at midnight - got it today and it works like a charm. Thanks.
Click on the resolution adjustment icons with the Option key held down and you get a list of resolutions. Click the switch at the bottom labeled Show all resolutions. Depending on the display or device attached you can select a version with (low resolution) next to it. Might help. Thanks for your tips Doug.
It doesn't work in this situation. I've gone through those steps many, many times and it does not change the output resolution when used with video production equipment. Photos here: discord.gg/d8mFdXbNHJ
@@djp_video I believe this could possibly only be true for the really low end M1 & M2 base models… if even that. I run arm based Mac’s of many types daily that the option key hold down definitely changes the frame rate and resolution. Unfortunately not all behaviors are the same across different models
One last hail Mary option for your recalcitrant mac is to install NDI tools on there and attach something like a zowie box to your switcher. Would be good to see you do a review on that thing.
I will second a recommendation on those Orei devices. They're incredibly cheap, but they're remarkably robust and I own several of them. Definitely my go-to for cheap extenders over cat5e or for simple conversions.
Awesome video. I found one dongle that works every time for me, and I have stuck with it. The Belkin Thunderbolt 3 Dock Mini HD. Idk what it is with that dongle, but it works perfectly every time, especially compared to the HDMI port on a mac (which never works properly for me)
I’m doing video production for a monthly Apple user group (mainly iOS developers) and we run at 1080p50. I feed the HDMI of the presenters laptop into a BMD HDMI to SDI converter as our switcher is SDI. The Mac detects this as 1080p60 and we let the switcher do the frame rate conversion. This has never failed to work to be honest. It doesn’t matter if we use the native HDMI output (on Macs that have it) or an USB-C dongle (original from Apple), it always works fine. When the presenter needs multiple laptops I put an old ATEM Mini on to these stage so the presenter can switch between the laptops him/herself. As the ATEM Mini also only supports up to 1080p60 it works the same.
If your switcher is at 50p and you're feeding it a 60p signal you're going to be getting some really weird motion artifacts. It'd be far better to gently encourage the Mac into outputting at 50p.
@@djp_videoI know and I do when I can but I’m not always close to the presenter when they plug in. But the motion/animations are usually very limited as it’s mostly Keynote presentations or some live coding.
Wondering if the Mac Studio prefers the DP alt mode HDMI cable to its HDMI port? I can get all my displays set up, then reboot, and some seemingly random display ends up with the primary display. It _seems_ to usually be the SIIG connection, which of course goes some place totally inconvenient.
With Macs I always use decimator converter. It works perfectly. With one exception, usually my switcher receive a yellowish signal from apple. I don't know how to turn it off.
Thanks for this Doug, not only the explanation but also for confirming for me that I'm not going mad, it is scaling everything to the maximum resolution! I knew how to fix this in Windows graphics driver control applications, but if we can't do it in MacOS...
I've had occasional issues with HDCP compliance using Mac with events in some spaces with Christie switching gear, resulting in a TV or projector not able to hold a signal from a Mac for more than half a second. The fix is to use a splitter, ideally one that lists "HDCP stripping" somewhere quietly in the specs. But overall, I've had very few problems. (In Australia, so any lack of 59.94 is happily not an issue.)
We have a bunch of EDID emulators and UdX/Terranex converters too. I've seen people making use of Apple TV units to get a remote feed from a Mac on the LAN. I know it must be compressed and maybe a little latency but it appears to work well. I just don't want to waste a couple of hundred pounds finding out if its any good myself.
Hey bud, bit of a question hurdle I’ve been dealing with since last year updating to the M dot two silicone MacBook Pro. A visual artist myself often times I am showing up to do a sort of visual check with the tech at the venue and recently I’ve had a bunch of admittedly inexpensive DMI splitters not working and seemingly switching to a pass-through mode as opposed to a proper splitter, basically meaning you can plug-in one of the other it doesn’t matter which but whichever one you plug-in second is not going to work, after months of research, I’ve read some articles about Apple restricting a lot of equipment based on HCP protocols, but you would think a simple powered two HDMI out splitter would not really be on a list like that, the strangest part about it is, a few of these I’ve used three or four times and then on the fifth time, of course, the time of the actual event and not an AV check these splitters all of a sudden stop working, does Apple in fact have some sort of real time management of devices that gets released with security updates to the operating systems? I now have to travel for some of these events with four different splitters and even a small inexpensive matrix just to know that when I show up for performance, I’m going to be able to get on to two screens.
Apple does make updates to their HDMI hardware as part of operating system updates. I've seen substantial changes to the way my Mac Mini M1 behaves over the 3 years I've had it. And I've heard from many (including here in the comments) that computers that have worked in the past will stop after an OS update. Try one of the EDID emulators. I've had far better luck with those than other solutions.
I wonder if you have tried in Extended Display mode instead of duplicating the display. For me, this has not been an issue, but I also don't run computers into the system a lot.
I hear people talk about this and it seems to come down to the Black Magic stuff just about all the time. I use Roland switchers or through Crestron systems and never have an issue.
I must be one of the lucky few with an m1 that always works (almost). Only one projector that I met that needed a decimator between … without any conversion …
@@djp_video I’ve had great luck forcing EDID’s on my M2 Mac. Created custom resolution in AW Edid editor, then loaded it in SwitchResX. Worked a charm even with a display (a Novastar MCTRL4K in my case) that output a regular 4k60 EDID.
One of the problems I've seen with M-series Macs is that they tend to output a 60Hz frame rate rather than 59.94Hz. The only consistent solution I've found for this problem is using a BMD UpDownCross HD converter to convert the Mac video signal to 1080p59.94. I prefer this solution over EDID emulators because the converter forces the Mac to turn off HDCP. I've tried using HDMI splitters to isolate the Mac's default HDCP video signal from my BMD components, but found the splitters unpredictable, particularly when randomly unplugging and replugging HDMI cables. A subtle feature of the BMD UpDownCross converter is its dual SDI outputs, which allow running redundant pairs of SDI cables to a BMD SDI to HDMI Mini Converter with dual inputs. That particular BMD Mini Converter has a built-in fail-over mechanism which automatically switches to the secondary SDI input whenever the primary SDI input fails to sync.
EDID can't force the Macs into doing 59.94 or 29.97 or 23.976. They just won't do it at all no matter what. So some kind of frame rate converter is necessary.
The most frequent problem I'm running into with Macs at the moment is a pink hue / colour shift when connected to a Decimator MD-HX - assuming due to a YUV/RGB mix up?
It could also be a timing or level mismatch, which isn't uncommon on Macs. If it's just a color shift (all colors being too pink, for example), it's signal timing or signal level mismatches. If it's a complete mixup of colors (black being pink, blue being green, that kind of thing), that could be a mismatch of color space (RGB vs YCrCb).
Not sure if it’s the cause of the color shift you are seeing but you always want to disable the Night Shift feature on the presenting Mac. This causes the output to be a lot less blue and more yellow.
Ok so my situation is a bit different in that I am not in video production but run a building design business running AutoCad LT, though I am having problems with the spasmodic flicker, ghosting of open programs and some vertical pixelation. I am using a Mac Studio M2 Max with Sonoma 14.5 with an external BENQ PD2725U monitor and have tried it with a new Avencore Carbon Series 1.5m Ultra High Speed Certified Cable 8K/60Hz (48Gbps HDMI 2.1) to no avail! I have also run in the Display Colour Profile, and changed the refresh rate down to 50 Hertz with no results! This seems to be an issue for many users who have a non apple monitor connected to an Apple M1/2/3 device. BENQ also state that their monitor is a Mac compatible device hence me buying it! Do you think that the installation of an EDID would solve this problem? Thanks in advance.
In that case an EDID emulator probably wouldn't help. Switching to DisplayPort with a USB-C-to-DisplayPort cable/adapter might though. Or using a shorter HDMI, or Thunderbolt 4 certified cable.
I had an Apple computer that ran Monterey, someone did an update to the latest OS (Sonoma), and all of a sudden no video from the Mac would not go into the ATM switcher HDMI. It was because the latest OS did not support 1080p 60 Hz. Sonoma only has 25 and 30 Hz Tried everything. The only thing that worked was for me to roll back my OS to Monterey, Big Sur works as well that I have one a different Mac running the same ATM switcher with an Apple computer . Had not tried any of the adaptions you listed below as this was six months or so ago. Hope this helps someone.
It does seem that Apple's updates make things worse rather than better. I was hopeful after I got my M1 Mac Mini that the problems would get fixed, but it's less consistent now with HDMI than it was when I got it 3+ years ago.
We have an M2 MacBook Pro and a deck link Duo in a sonnet PCIE thunderbolt expansion unit. After about 20 minutes of being connected to the MacBook the outputs will stop working and the deck link now longer shows up in the blackmagic software. Odly enough the deck link is still showing in the system devices menu. Power cycling the sonnet rack fixes the issue but it’s unusable for any live show. Any thoughts?
@@Alex-456 I would not regard the age of the Decklink as a factor in trying to diagnose the issue. I had a Decklink Duo 2 arrive DOA once. It is not uncommon.
In terms of something for real-time processing, I'm not aware of anything. If something can be done in post, Topaz Video AI can do some pretty amazing things if you're willing to spend a little time experimenting with its various presets.
If it involves editing or other processing of video, right now it's the Asus ProArt StudioBook 16. It's a bit of a video processing monster for the price.
USB-C ports can output DisplayPort or HDMI. Both are referred to as Alt Mode, as they are an alternate use of some of the pins of a USB-C port. Passive adapters/cables merely tell the computer that "a display is connected using HDMI. Please send an HDMI signal." Passive devices don't do any actual conversion of the signal. That's where active devices/cables come into play. In the case of the active cable(s) I recommended here in this video, they ask the computer for a DisplayPort stream. Then the electronics in the cable receive the DisplayPort stream generate their own HDMI signal. This usually solves the problem. HDCP is basically the same for HDMI or DisplayPort, and implemented as (1) part of the initial negotiation between display and source to establish HDCP version and encryption keys, and (2) encryption in the video data stream. Occasionally that can go wrong, but it isn't often and when it happens is usually due to a low quality, bad, or marginal cable, or one that is too long. Macs usually don't enforce HDCP unless you're playing back protected content like from the TV app or streaming service or similar. It wouldn't ever engage when sitting at a blank desktop with no apps running. There has been quite a lot of discussion/speculation online that HDCP is the cause of Macs being uncooperative with HDMI connections. I've never seen any evidence that that is even remotely true, despite spending countless hours trying to figure this out and come up with a definitive fix. If HDCP was the issue, sending the signal through USB-C to DisplayPort, then converted to HDMI would fail as well, as DisplayPort also supports HDCP, but it doesn't. And devices which strip HDCP from HDMI would allow Macs to work properly, but they don't. If HDCP was the issue, using EDID emulators to coax a specific signal format from the computer would not fix the problem, but they usually do. And monitors which actually do support HDCP (as most do) should always work, but they do not. And switching from a native HDMI port to USB-C converted HDMI on the Mac would always yield the same results, but it doesn't. HDCP just doesn't seem to factor into getting a connection up and running unless protected content is actively being played. It hasn't been the common denominator in any of the testing I've done. As mentioned in this video, I had a discussion with someone who manages a team that creates HDMI converters about this problem. In their internal research, they found that the incompatibilities with Macs tend to come from the computers outputting a signal with non-standard timings. (I didn't ask for any additional technical detail, or I would pass that along.) They were able to relax the tolerances on their converters and that made them work with Macs much more consistently. That also lines up with what I've seen as well. Those devices, if run with older firmware, are much more likely to fail with a Mac than the models with newer firmware. But one of the biggest contributors to the issues is the fact that adjusting screen resolution in the Display settings doesn't usually change the output resolution at the HDMI port for Apple Silicon devices. That setting adjusts the scaling, but not the signal the Mac is outputting. So, if through EDID negotiation, the Mac establishes that the connected device can receive a 3840 x 2160 image at 60 fps, it's always going to output 3840 x 2160 and the only thing you can change as a user is the frame rate, even using the Option key tricks. In my many days of testing, I found this to be absolutely consistent and predictable.
One thing you totally left out which is my preferred method for 1080p and that's use a BMD UltraStudio Monitor 3G. It's SDI straight out of the Mac with assignable scale and resolution. If i'm doing more, I have a 8k card in a Sonnet enclosure. I have a 100% success rate with both of these options.
This was really meant as a video to show how to output something running on the desktop, like a presentation or web browser. Those don't work with the UltraStudio or similar devices.
The Decimator stuff is amazing. Absolutely an essential device to "make things work" - period. I do have to say, though, that I've seen stuff that just won't work. Converters won't touch it, Decimator won't touch it. Plug it into a 20 year old Kramer 728 (less than a hundred bucks on eBay these days) and it comes out perfect. All you can do is shrug your shoulders and move on.
The Macs are among those devices. I've heard from a number of people, and even seen myself, situations where even a Decimator won't recognize the output of my M1 Mac Mini.
@@djp_video had that happen, also had it come up on the Decimator with impossible readings for framesize/rate (eg, garbage data). Hate macs. I keep the Kramer 728 as it's often the only device something will sync to. Old as snot, but it's dependable.
Get some that are configured for the frame rates you use on your switcher. So, for example, if you work in 59.94 or 60p, get an EDID emulator for 59 or 60p.
On many Intel Macs there were ways to change the actual output resolution in software. But it's more of a hassle than using something like a Dr HDMI or EDID Emulator. On the Apple Silicon machines, I haven't seen any way of manually setting the output resolution, and it doesn't seem to support the NTSC-style frame rates at all.
@@djp_videoIt definitely works, it shows a long list of resolutions but still it’s scaled/emulated. The outputted video signal on the HDMI port is always the highest that the display/device natively supports. macOS will scale to the resolution you choose.
@WPayne19 I've heard this suggested many times, and I've tried it many times as well. And I verified it just now yet again on both my M3 MacBook Pro and M1 Mac Mini. I get the long resolution list, and click on one to change it, and that does change the scaling factor, but the resolution being output to the HDMI port remains unchanged. I have never seen any way to change the resolution being output to the HDMI port on any Apple Silicon machine. A lot of people have suggested this method, but I've never seen it work.
To avoid compatibility ugly situations, i always use my own laptop that im 100% sure is working on my gear, let the client send the files - no time to waste fighting to get someone's else gear to work with mines, just before production..
I’ve had a lot of clients unwilling to do that. They don’t trust that we have the right versions of their files, or the right fonts, etc. We will let them use their own, with the caveat that it might not work and we need a backup plan. But it is always a gamble when Macs get involved.
If you use the 'Advanced. button and check "Show Resolution as List" you get a switch to "Show all resolutions" Any resolution that is not HiDPI scaling to full pixel resolution available as you describe is then noted as 'low resolution' next to it.
I'm sorry, but this doesn't change the HDMI output resolution. It gives you additional scaling options, but the HDMI output resolution remains unchanged. I verified this, yet again, just a few minutes ago, on both of my Macs.
Really?, I just did it on mine and it worked. The resolutions not marked (low resolution) will be full available resolution but scaling text and UI elements as if it was the lower resolution. Resolutions marked (low resolution) will output that actual resolution. This has been the case since case for some time before M chips, but is what the intel mac and the M2 max in front of me both do. @@djp_video You usually only see the (low resolution) modes with "Show all resolutions" turned on.
You verified with a piece of equipment that shows the HDMI output resolution? I did it with both the Decimator 12G-CROSS and Teranex AV and both showed 2160p60 no matter which option I selected in the resolution list. I tried it several times on my M3 MacBook Pro and M1 Mini. Same result.
The monitor I have them plugged into reports resolution. If I select 1920 x 1080 it is the monitor reports full res (in this case 5120 x 1440), if I choose 1920 x 1080 (low resolution) it reports 1920 x 1080. These is also a free app called SwitchResX that has been around for decades that lets you force customised resolutions @@djp_video
Correct. It seems that Apple Silicon Macs can't output the 1/1.001 (59.94, 29.97, 23.976) frame rates at all. So those still need to go through some kind of conversion, whether that is performed by an ATEM or another device.
@@djp_video sledgehammer is another option. Great video on the topic will be adding some of these to the shopping list - Macs caused far too many headaches over the last couple of years since interlaced output was seemingly patched out Edit: links in the description you're a gent! 🙏
I always found it interesting how Macs seemed to be marketed as "media production computers" and yet they cause more headaches in a production environment than most all Windows computers. At least that has been my experience.
As a user of both, I've found the opposite to be true. Windows is always changing and thus more difficult to support. We use more Windows appliances for broadcast but more Mac workstations for Post production. It just boils down to using the best software ecosystems available.
For me, Macs have been a lot more of a headache to deal with than Windows PCs. From weird things like this HDMI issue to software updates that break drivers to a lot of occasions where a piece of software that I need to run an event isn't available on Mac, I generally now only use Macs when I have to.
@@djp_video btw. Framerate conversation is no problem for static content. If we do coroporate events we let the custommer use his laptops for slides, but videos are played trough one of our laptops. PS: it whould be great if microconverters and decimators just had an internal function to edit the edid config, or even use an sdi in as resolution an framerate reference for the edid information.
So Apple is breaking the HDMI standard? O_o I mean to get HDMI license there are requirements you must fulfill. I wonder what HDMI forum's doing about this... their whole point is to try and get everyone do things the CORRECT way so that HDMI will be a viable connection standard. If HDMI sucks but DP is better, then people will take DP over HDMI and HDMI will lose market share and licensing income...
I can't verify the standards issue myself. That's just what I was told by an engineer who works on products that accept an HDMI source, and they have had significant difficultly getting Macs to work with consistently because of signal timing issues.
@@djp_video at my last job, we had similar issues all the time with macs and it got worse in recent times. We had to install quite expensive hardware for our customers and some were out of luck having invested hundreds of thousands to a AV systems in their meeting offices and then realizing that MAC's are not compatible with the hardware anymore... so they have to invest into new set of hardware... and that wasn't on us, that was fault of the hardware manufacturers, but mainly on Apple forcing stuff like HDCP even with content that doesn't actually require it. Broke many things like teleconferencing and screen sharing on many systems.
The information you shared here is incredible and vital to video productions and creative solutions with the Mac! Thank you!
Another option is to use AirPlay to an AppleTV. Run an ethernet drop and USB-C NIC to the presenter. If EDID+Decimator fails, have the presenter share to your AppleTV. The AppleTV supports NTSC frame rates. On my Intel NVIDIA GPU MacBook Pro I had HDMI just stop working one day. Resetting NVRAM did the trick.
Yup this is what I do, although I'm not using NTSC frame rates
Perfect timing. I spent a few hours just before watching this trying to get 1080p59.94 out of an m2 studio into an ATEm via Decimator. No dice. On an Intel Mac “switchrezX” worked pretty well but could not work on the studio. Ordered one of the edid item last night at midnight - got it today and it works like a charm.
Thanks.
Doug this content is honestly so helpful. Keep it up! This helped me fix a massive live show. Thank you!
Click on the resolution adjustment icons with the Option key held down and you get a list of resolutions. Click the switch at the bottom labeled Show all resolutions. Depending on the display or device attached you can select a version with (low resolution) next to it. Might help. Thanks for your tips Doug.
It doesn't work in this situation. I've gone through those steps many, many times and it does not change the output resolution when used with video production equipment. Photos here: discord.gg/d8mFdXbNHJ
@@djp_video I believe this could possibly only be true for the really low end M1 & M2 base models… if even that. I run arm based Mac’s of many types daily that the option key hold down definitely changes the frame rate and resolution. Unfortunately not all behaviors are the same across different models
It doesn't work on either my Mac Mini (M1) or my MacBook Pro (M3 Pro). I have spent literal days trying. I would love it if it did.
Brilliant video! Thank you
One last hail Mary option for your recalcitrant mac is to install NDI tools on there and attach something like a zowie box to your switcher. Would be good to see you do a review on that thing.
Thanks! Great info.
I will second a recommendation on those Orei devices. They're incredibly cheap, but they're remarkably robust and I own several of them. Definitely my go-to for cheap extenders over cat5e or for simple conversions.
Awesome video. I found one dongle that works every time for me, and I have stuck with it. The Belkin Thunderbolt 3 Dock Mini HD. Idk what it is with that dongle, but it works perfectly every time, especially compared to the HDMI port on a mac (which never works properly for me)
I’m doing video production for a monthly Apple user group (mainly iOS developers) and we run at 1080p50. I feed the HDMI of the presenters laptop into a BMD HDMI to SDI converter as our switcher is SDI. The Mac detects this as 1080p60 and we let the switcher do the frame rate conversion. This has never failed to work to be honest. It doesn’t matter if we use the native HDMI output (on Macs that have it) or an USB-C dongle (original from Apple), it always works fine. When the presenter needs multiple laptops I put an old ATEM Mini on to these stage so the presenter can switch between the laptops him/herself. As the ATEM Mini also only supports up to 1080p60 it works the same.
If your switcher is at 50p and you're feeding it a 60p signal you're going to be getting some really weird motion artifacts. It'd be far better to gently encourage the Mac into outputting at 50p.
@@djp_videoI know and I do when I can but I’m not always close to the presenter when they plug in. But the motion/animations are usually very limited as it’s mostly Keynote presentations or some live coding.
Pick up an EDID emulator so you don't have to play with any software settings. One of the best $10 investments you can make.
@@djp_videoI will definitely buy one and see if I can always force 1080p50 that way. Saves me the manual change.
Wondering if the Mac Studio prefers the DP alt mode HDMI cable to its HDMI port? I can get all my displays set up, then reboot, and some seemingly random display ends up with the primary display. It _seems_ to usually be the SIIG connection, which of course goes some place totally inconvenient.
With Macs I always use decimator converter. It works perfectly. With one exception, usually my switcher receive a yellowish signal from apple. I don't know how to turn it off.
Thanks for this Doug, not only the explanation but also for confirming for me that I'm not going mad, it is scaling everything to the maximum resolution! I knew how to fix this in Windows graphics driver control applications, but if we can't do it in MacOS...
I've had occasional issues with HDCP compliance using Mac with events in some spaces with Christie switching gear, resulting in a TV or projector not able to hold a signal from a Mac for more than half a second. The fix is to use a splitter, ideally one that lists "HDCP stripping" somewhere quietly in the specs. But overall, I've had very few problems. (In Australia, so any lack of 59.94 is happily not an issue.)
@djp_video Apple took out 29.97 and 59.94 a few versions of the OS ago. I wish I knew why. 59.94 still exist in Mac OS for the 6k Pro Display XDR.
We have a bunch of EDID emulators and UdX/Terranex converters too. I've seen people making use of Apple TV units to get a remote feed from a Mac on the LAN. I know it must be compressed and maybe a little latency but it appears to work well.
I just don't want to waste a couple of hundred pounds finding out if its any good myself.
Hey bud, bit of a question hurdle I’ve been dealing with since last year updating to the M dot two silicone MacBook Pro. A visual artist myself often times I am showing up to do a sort of visual check with the tech at the venue and recently I’ve had a bunch of admittedly inexpensive DMI splitters not working and seemingly switching to a pass-through mode as opposed to a proper splitter, basically meaning you can plug-in one of the other it doesn’t matter which but whichever one you plug-in second is not going to work, after months of research, I’ve read some articles about Apple restricting a lot of equipment based on HCP protocols, but you would think a simple powered two HDMI out splitter would not really be on a list like that, the strangest part about it is, a few of these I’ve used three or four times and then on the fifth time, of course, the time of the actual event and not an AV check these splitters all of a sudden stop working, does Apple in fact have some sort of real time management of devices that gets released with security updates to the operating systems? I now have to travel for some of these events with four different splitters and even a small inexpensive matrix just to know that when I show up for performance, I’m going to be able to get on to two screens.
Apple does make updates to their HDMI hardware as part of operating system updates. I've seen substantial changes to the way my Mac Mini M1 behaves over the 3 years I've had it. And I've heard from many (including here in the comments) that computers that have worked in the past will stop after an OS update.
Try one of the EDID emulators. I've had far better luck with those than other solutions.
I wonder if you have tried in Extended Display mode instead of duplicating the display. For me, this has not been an issue, but I also don't run computers into the system a lot.
I tried it. It does not make a difference.
I hear people talk about this and it seems to come down to the Black Magic stuff just about all the time. I use Roland switchers or through Crestron systems and never have an issue.
I hear about it more in the context of other brands. The Blackmagic stuff, in general, seems to be more forgiving than some other brands.
I must be one of the lucky few with an m1 that always works (almost). Only one projector that I met that needed a decimator between … without any conversion …
Sorry this is hdmi out
What about using a tool like SwitchResX? It lets you set the signal format in great detail.
It isn't as helpful as one might hope. It doesn't seem to do anything in this scenario.
@@djp_video Well, it lets you precisely set the resolution and frame rate besides other things, so you don’t have to use any converters, no?
If it works, which it never has for me. It has a LOT of limitations on Apple Silicon.
@@djp_video Ok, interesting, I’m gonna check that one out
@@djp_video I’ve had great luck forcing EDID’s on my M2 Mac. Created custom resolution in AW Edid editor, then loaded it in SwitchResX. Worked a charm even with a display (a Novastar MCTRL4K in my case) that output a regular 4k60 EDID.
One of the problems I've seen with M-series Macs is that they tend to output a 60Hz frame rate rather than 59.94Hz. The only consistent solution I've found for this problem is using a BMD UpDownCross HD converter to convert the Mac video signal to 1080p59.94. I prefer this solution over EDID emulators because the converter forces the Mac to turn off HDCP. I've tried using HDMI splitters to isolate the Mac's default HDCP video signal from my BMD components, but found the splitters unpredictable, particularly when randomly unplugging and replugging HDMI cables. A subtle feature of the BMD UpDownCross converter is its dual SDI outputs, which allow running redundant pairs of SDI cables to a BMD SDI to HDMI Mini Converter with dual inputs. That particular BMD Mini Converter has a built-in fail-over mechanism which automatically switches to the secondary SDI input whenever the primary SDI input fails to sync.
EDID can't force the Macs into doing 59.94 or 29.97 or 23.976. They just won't do it at all no matter what. So some kind of frame rate converter is necessary.
The most frequent problem I'm running into with Macs at the moment is a pink hue / colour shift when connected to a Decimator MD-HX - assuming due to a YUV/RGB mix up?
It could also be a timing or level mismatch, which isn't uncommon on Macs. If it's just a color shift (all colors being too pink, for example), it's signal timing or signal level mismatches. If it's a complete mixup of colors (black being pink, blue being green, that kind of thing), that could be a mismatch of color space (RGB vs YCrCb).
Not sure if it’s the cause of the color shift you are seeing but you always want to disable the Night Shift feature on the presenting Mac. This causes the output to be a lot less blue and more yellow.
@@MarcoMiltenburg yeah good shout, but I always look out for that and it's not the cause in this case
@@djp_video interesting, yeah it's always just a colour shift
Ok so my situation is a bit different in that I am not in video production but run a building design business running AutoCad LT, though I am having problems with the spasmodic flicker, ghosting of open programs and some vertical pixelation. I am using a Mac Studio M2 Max with Sonoma 14.5 with an external BENQ PD2725U monitor and have tried it with a new Avencore Carbon Series 1.5m Ultra High Speed Certified Cable 8K/60Hz (48Gbps HDMI 2.1) to no avail! I have also run in the Display Colour Profile, and changed the refresh rate down to 50 Hertz with no results! This seems to be an issue for many users who have a non apple monitor connected to an Apple M1/2/3 device. BENQ also state that their monitor is a Mac compatible device hence me buying it! Do you think that the installation of an EDID would solve this problem? Thanks in advance.
In that case an EDID emulator probably wouldn't help.
Switching to DisplayPort with a USB-C-to-DisplayPort cable/adapter might though. Or using a shorter HDMI, or Thunderbolt 4 certified cable.
@@djp_video thanks for the quick reply
Will give your suggestions a try and get back to you 👍
I had an Apple computer that ran Monterey, someone did an update to the latest OS (Sonoma), and all of a sudden no video from the Mac would not go into the ATM switcher HDMI. It was because the latest OS did not support 1080p 60 Hz. Sonoma only has 25 and 30 Hz Tried everything.
The only thing that worked was for me to roll back my OS to Monterey, Big Sur works as well that I have one a different Mac running the same ATM switcher with an Apple computer
.
Had not tried any of the adaptions you listed below as this was six months or so ago. Hope this helps someone.
It does seem that Apple's updates make things worse rather than better. I was hopeful after I got my M1 Mac Mini that the problems would get fixed, but it's less consistent now with HDMI than it was when I got it 3+ years ago.
We have an M2 MacBook Pro and a deck link Duo in a sonnet PCIE thunderbolt expansion unit. After about 20 minutes of being connected to the MacBook the outputs will stop working and the deck link now longer shows up in the blackmagic software. Odly enough the deck link is still showing in the system devices menu. Power cycling the sonnet rack fixes the issue but it’s unusable for any live show. Any thoughts?
Hmmm. Might be worth reaching out to Sonnet for support.
Is this the first time you're having issues with that particular Decklink card? If so, it might be the fan on the card.
@@AaronKothe Both the deck link and the Mac are only 5 months old and the issue has been happening since the first time we tried it.
@@Alex-456 I would not regard the age of the Decklink as a factor in trying to diagnose the issue. I had a Decklink Duo 2 arrive DOA once. It is not uncommon.
What’s something better than the teranex ?
In terms of something for real-time processing, I'm not aware of anything. If something can be done in post, Topaz Video AI can do some pretty amazing things if you're willing to spend a little time experimenting with its various presets.
Do you ever use NDI encoder/decoders as a backup way to get video to the switcher ?
Personally I have not. But it could be another solution.
What’s your favor laptop for production?
If it involves editing or other processing of video, right now it's the Asus ProArt StudioBook 16. It's a bit of a video processing monster for the price.
@@djp_video very nice I like how the hdmi and Ethernet port are in the back!
Can anyone comment on the idea that the USB-C (Display Port Stream) - to HDMI, is actually a poor or bad HDCP conversion from C(DP) to HDMI.
USB-C ports can output DisplayPort or HDMI. Both are referred to as Alt Mode, as they are an alternate use of some of the pins of a USB-C port. Passive adapters/cables merely tell the computer that "a display is connected using HDMI. Please send an HDMI signal." Passive devices don't do any actual conversion of the signal. That's where active devices/cables come into play.
In the case of the active cable(s) I recommended here in this video, they ask the computer for a DisplayPort stream. Then the electronics in the cable receive the DisplayPort stream generate their own HDMI signal. This usually solves the problem.
HDCP is basically the same for HDMI or DisplayPort, and implemented as (1) part of the initial negotiation between display and source to establish HDCP version and encryption keys, and (2) encryption in the video data stream. Occasionally that can go wrong, but it isn't often and when it happens is usually due to a low quality, bad, or marginal cable, or one that is too long. Macs usually don't enforce HDCP unless you're playing back protected content like from the TV app or streaming service or similar. It wouldn't ever engage when sitting at a blank desktop with no apps running.
There has been quite a lot of discussion/speculation online that HDCP is the cause of Macs being uncooperative with HDMI connections. I've never seen any evidence that that is even remotely true, despite spending countless hours trying to figure this out and come up with a definitive fix.
If HDCP was the issue, sending the signal through USB-C to DisplayPort, then converted to HDMI would fail as well, as DisplayPort also supports HDCP, but it doesn't. And devices which strip HDCP from HDMI would allow Macs to work properly, but they don't. If HDCP was the issue, using EDID emulators to coax a specific signal format from the computer would not fix the problem, but they usually do. And monitors which actually do support HDCP (as most do) should always work, but they do not. And switching from a native HDMI port to USB-C converted HDMI on the Mac would always yield the same results, but it doesn't. HDCP just doesn't seem to factor into getting a connection up and running unless protected content is actively being played. It hasn't been the common denominator in any of the testing I've done.
As mentioned in this video, I had a discussion with someone who manages a team that creates HDMI converters about this problem. In their internal research, they found that the incompatibilities with Macs tend to come from the computers outputting a signal with non-standard timings. (I didn't ask for any additional technical detail, or I would pass that along.) They were able to relax the tolerances on their converters and that made them work with Macs much more consistently. That also lines up with what I've seen as well. Those devices, if run with older firmware, are much more likely to fail with a Mac than the models with newer firmware.
But one of the biggest contributors to the issues is the fact that adjusting screen resolution in the Display settings doesn't usually change the output resolution at the HDMI port for Apple Silicon devices. That setting adjusts the scaling, but not the signal the Mac is outputting. So, if through EDID negotiation, the Mac establishes that the connected device can receive a 3840 x 2160 image at 60 fps, it's always going to output 3840 x 2160 and the only thing you can change as a user is the frame rate, even using the Option key tricks. In my many days of testing, I found this to be absolutely consistent and predictable.
One thing you totally left out which is my preferred method for 1080p and that's use a BMD UltraStudio Monitor 3G. It's SDI straight out of the Mac with assignable scale and resolution. If i'm doing more, I have a 8k card in a Sonnet enclosure. I have a 100% success rate with both of these options.
This was really meant as a video to show how to output something running on the desktop, like a presentation or web browser. Those don't work with the UltraStudio or similar devices.
The Decimator stuff is amazing. Absolutely an essential device to "make things work" - period.
I do have to say, though, that I've seen stuff that just won't work. Converters won't touch it, Decimator won't touch it.
Plug it into a 20 year old Kramer 728 (less than a hundred bucks on eBay these days) and it comes out perfect.
All you can do is shrug your shoulders and move on.
The Macs are among those devices. I've heard from a number of people, and even seen myself, situations where even a Decimator won't recognize the output of my M1 Mac Mini.
@@djp_video had that happen, also had it come up on the Decimator with impossible readings for framesize/rate (eg, garbage data). Hate macs.
I keep the Kramer 728 as it's often the only device something will sync to. Old as snot, but it's dependable.
hey which on are most use on set the frame rate EDID Emulators ? so I Ould but them and thank I didn't know this
Get some that are configured for the frame rates you use on your switcher. So, for example, if you work in 59.94 or 60p, get an EDID emulator for 59 or 60p.
Even on a 2014 Mac Mini, I had to use a "Dr HDMI" to force it down to 720p50
On many Intel Macs there were ways to change the actual output resolution in software. But it's more of a hassle than using something like a Dr HDMI or EDID Emulator. On the Apple Silicon machines, I haven't seen any way of manually setting the output resolution, and it doesn't seem to support the NTSC-style frame rates at all.
Hold down the option key and click on one of the resolution options. You can pick specific output resolutions…
I've never seen that work
@@djp_videoIt definitely works, it shows a long list of resolutions but still it’s scaled/emulated. The outputted video signal on the HDMI port is always the highest that the display/device natively supports. macOS will scale to the resolution you choose.
That's exaclty what I demonstrated on the video. But it doesn't change the output resolution, which is what we need to do.
@@djp_video hold the option key and press it. It brings up a selection menu of resolutions and not just the scaling settings
@WPayne19 I've heard this suggested many times, and I've tried it many times as well. And I verified it just now yet again on both my M3 MacBook Pro and M1 Mac Mini. I get the long resolution list, and click on one to change it, and that does change the scaling factor, but the resolution being output to the HDMI port remains unchanged.
I have never seen any way to change the resolution being output to the HDMI port on any Apple Silicon machine. A lot of people have suggested this method, but I've never seen it work.
The 4K Decimator is always out of stock
B&H has it in stock right now. Run to get one!
ORDERED!!!! Thank you!@@djp_video
To avoid compatibility ugly situations, i always use my own laptop that im 100% sure is working on my gear, let the client send the files - no time to waste fighting to get someone's else gear to work with mines, just before production..
I’ve had a lot of clients unwilling to do that. They don’t trust that we have the right versions of their files, or the right fonts, etc. We will let them use their own, with the caveat that it might not work and we need a backup plan. But it is always a gamble when Macs get involved.
If you use the 'Advanced. button and check "Show Resolution as List" you get a switch to "Show all resolutions" Any resolution that is not HiDPI scaling to full pixel resolution available as you describe is then noted as 'low resolution' next to it.
I'm sorry, but this doesn't change the HDMI output resolution. It gives you additional scaling options, but the HDMI output resolution remains unchanged. I verified this, yet again, just a few minutes ago, on both of my Macs.
Really?, I just did it on mine and it worked. The resolutions not marked (low resolution) will be full available resolution but scaling text and UI elements as if it was the lower resolution. Resolutions marked (low resolution) will output that actual resolution. This has been the case since case for some time before M chips, but is what the intel mac and the M2 max in front of me both do. @@djp_video
You usually only see the (low resolution) modes with "Show all resolutions" turned on.
You verified with a piece of equipment that shows the HDMI output resolution? I did it with both the Decimator 12G-CROSS and Teranex AV and both showed 2160p60 no matter which option I selected in the resolution list. I tried it several times on my M3 MacBook Pro and M1 Mini. Same result.
The monitor I have them plugged into reports resolution. If I select 1920 x 1080 it is the monitor reports full res (in this case 5120 x 1440), if I choose 1920 x 1080 (low resolution) it reports 1920 x 1080. These is also a free app called SwitchResX that has been around for decades that lets you force customised resolutions @@djp_video
Opps, Im a liar, its now $16
If the dongle cannot force 59.94 I guess it cannot force 29.97.
Correct. It seems that Apple Silicon Macs can't output the 1/1.001 (59.94, 29.97, 23.976) frame rates at all. So those still need to go through some kind of conversion, whether that is performed by an ATEM or another device.
@@djp_video This sort of begs the question about an NLE that is playing a 29.97 timeline.
If you have a dedicated output device like a DeckLink or UltraStudio you can get true 29.97 out of it.
I see a mac, I reach for a decimator
When it works, that's great! But I've also seen nearly as many situations where it doesn't work as when it does.
@@djp_video sledgehammer is another option. Great video on the topic will be adding some of these to the shopping list - Macs caused far too many headaches over the last couple of years since interlaced output was seemingly patched out
Edit: links in the description you're a gent! 🙏
I always found it interesting how Macs seemed to be marketed as "media production computers" and yet they cause more headaches in a production environment than most all Windows computers. At least that has been my experience.
As a user of both, I've found the opposite to be true. Windows is always changing and thus more difficult to support. We use more Windows appliances for broadcast but more Mac workstations for Post production. It just boils down to using the best software ecosystems available.
For me, Macs have been a lot more of a headache to deal with than Windows PCs. From weird things like this HDMI issue to software updates that break drivers to a lot of occasions where a piece of software that I need to run an event isn't available on Mac, I generally now only use Macs when I have to.
100 % agree. The fact that this has been a issue since the introduction of their own chips, and they refusal to acknowledge incorrect is mind blowing
So what we are saying is Macbook Pro is not Professional. SMH. Apple is really making it difficult to stay with them.
I have loved my mac a photographer, then indie film work. BUT, I moved into live events, and it is not always the best tool...
of course the hdmi is different from the usb c. the hdmi uses hdmi, usb-c uses Displayport.
USB-C has an Alt Mode for HDMI as well, which is what gets used by the passive adapters that are out there.
@@djp_video so just a regular dp, passive adapter somtimes dont work
@@djp_video btw. Framerate conversation is no problem for static content. If we do coroporate events we let the custommer use his laptops for slides, but videos are played trough one of our laptops.
PS: it whould be great if microconverters and decimators just had an internal function to edit the edid config, or even use an sdi in as resolution an framerate reference for the edid information.
So Apple is breaking the HDMI standard? O_o
I mean to get HDMI license there are requirements you must fulfill. I wonder what HDMI forum's doing about this... their whole point is to try and get everyone do things the CORRECT way so that HDMI will be a viable connection standard.
If HDMI sucks but DP is better, then people will take DP over HDMI and HDMI will lose market share and licensing income...
I can't verify the standards issue myself. That's just what I was told by an engineer who works on products that accept an HDMI source, and they have had significant difficultly getting Macs to work with consistently because of signal timing issues.
@@djp_video at my last job, we had similar issues all the time with macs and it got worse in recent times. We had to install quite expensive hardware for our customers and some were out of luck having invested hundreds of thousands to a AV systems in their meeting offices and then realizing that MAC's are not compatible with the hardware anymore... so they have to invest into new set of hardware... and that wasn't on us, that was fault of the hardware manufacturers, but mainly on Apple forcing stuff like HDCP even with content that doesn't actually require it.
Broke many things like teleconferencing and screen sharing on many systems.
what a waste of 22 minutes. thenks for nothing
What were you hoping for? These solutions are currently the best that can be done until Apple decides to fix the problem for real.