I get what you are saying here, but the problem with the spiritbirds is that you have to do it every single hunt, and it's especially annoying if you have to hunt with others. Yes, before you had to go on gathering quests, sacrifice pouch space and all that, but that was all part of the preparation previous to the hunt. Now you have to prepare for the hunt WHILE you are already hunting, and that's what makes it annoying, i want to do all my preparations and then focus on hunting, it's not fun to have to dedicate time for it when you want to be killing the monsters. When playing with friends it makes things even more annoying because everyone is gathering the birds on their own and then we had to re-gather to start the fight, and sometimes one of the team just couldn't find as many birds and took longer to get started and it's just so boring and annoying! With Gathering quests you could simply do the gathering on your own time and then have everything ready to hunt with your pals, it simply dosn't work.
The only thing that annoys me about petalaces is that we didnt get rarity 10 petalaces. It disturbs me so much having everything but one thing the same color.
I think its about the presentation. By making that grey health / stamina bar always visible at the top, people are perceiving that as missing rather than the original intention as bonus. Its ui design certainly gave dissatisfaction to some min maxers too. It’s psychological thing. It’s still the bonus at the end but rather poorly presented IMO
I see it as a redundant feature. Collecting random birds a minute before every hunt doesn't make the game better in my eyes. I can see why people think it's a terrible feature regardless of how prep intensive the previous entries were.
I remember "the good days" of attempting to craft max and ancient potions mid quest then seeing "crafting failed" and seeing my time and materials dissapear. Truly times i do not wish to return to.
I hate the fact that my life bar is not as long as the screen is, that's it I don't care if I had to hunt thousand of kelbi to get their horns to craft a potion, at least, my jauge was full so I just don't look for Spiritbirds anymore, I have just 1 lvl1 jewel for random spiritbirds effects, and gather those that are on the way
As much as the tent and spirit bugs work well in Rise, I personally don't like them and want to see either one in the next MH (We probably will get the tent anyway), I'll 100% go back and take the 50-minute relaxing gathering quest to be good to hunt for a while, then having to collect birds every single quest. I started MH with 3U and the fact that you had to plan ahead to not run out of crucial items, micromanage and choose which item you need in a quest was a selling point for me. Honestly, I don't really try to challenge myself or speedrun, but I usually don't take the birds because I usually don't need them, and then when I get one shot for it, I feel like I handicapped myself for not taking the birds, but the reality is just that I was too lazy to do it. Back then, I take time to gather honey to get mega potions, and I get rewarded if I didn't have to use them in a quest, cause you can keep them for the next one, that's not the case with the birds. Don't get me wrong, I don't try to say that you're wrong and it's a bad video, that's quite the contrary, those are just my preferences
Ik it is kinda a meme but I like how monster hunter is more monster hunting. I don't want a relaxing gathering. I could play minecraft for that. I'm not saying you're wrong, just sharing a new player. pov. That being said I do crave the difficulty of older games but having to farm and micromanage like that isn't making the game harder just a pain
Man, hearing you refer to the "dark days" and "ancient" times of MH hurt my soul a little. In tri /3U I loved going on gathering expeditions. Farm the ore/bone/consumable mats > make the set to kill the monster > use that set to farm other monster, etc. You hit the nail on the head though. Current gaming is all about the 10-15 minute game-loop and Rise balances that against the grind well. It's important to have that "down time" that chill gathering sessions used to have that balanced the game and added variety to sessions. it can't all be explosions and severed tails flying everywhere.
spirit birds arent that bad, but the health part feels a bit less like a choice in a game like this where it might make the difference between getting oneshot or not. i super enjoy the hunting helpers though and i wouldve loved to see these systems in a game like world, where the maps are more appealing to explore.
my biggest issue with the spirit bird system is that its completely counter intuistive to a lot of rises systems. they finally have the random join request feature that is awesome. they have proper warp points on the maps to get to monster faster but then i join a 8 min hunt and spend 2 mins on collecting bugs I did the game through on switch and PC and can def say that on PC with the full rainbow bug at the start of a hunt the experience was just more enjoyable. thing is to i still would collect endemic life to use to just felt less forced now.
I'm also a long time player (veteran as they say (?)) There are days where I appreciate birds, I love how they look and it gives me time to think before battles, but there are also times where I just want to get over the hunt, especially when I randomly joined someone else's quest, they would kick me sometimes. Im neutral about this and heck to the no... I don't want freedom 2 back, nope. It is nostalgic but I love how enjoyable MH is right now. Back then it felt like boot camp, sure you got better and going in latest MH games, you're already tuned in but I'm getting old I guess, I appreciate QOL features.
Disagree about the pouch space , from MHFU to Rise i always carry 2 max potions and 1 ancient potion along with anything i deemed necessary for the hunt , they are cheap to craft by end game and depend on your skill you won't even use 1 . Never feel being pressure by the lack of space and yes , this statement also applied to the Pre-world when the material also share the same pouch as item . Nowadays they get into a different pouch . But you know what will be always waste on hunt , TIME . This is even more relevant on High level afflicted invest when your timer got cut down and monster HP and damage got a boost , and of course it also a multi-hunt quest . Every time LS wannabe jump to Risen / High level afflict they got instantly cart to the point i have to set up a custom shout out to get them to gather bird ( if they are OK with it that is...) . Bird is a must because ours HP and Stamina got nerfed and you can't do anything about it except wasting time grabbing bird and licking Capcom shoe and praising them what a great game design it is .
All valid arguments but there is one aspect to the birds that is in contradiction to Rise design ethos and that's the quick pick up and play if those birds take 5min to get fully stacked that's 5min increase to the minimum viable time commitment. As a parent having 15min of free time to do a hunt is totally different to having 20min time window. With worlds system I could have dedicated time for example before bed when I had un interrupted time to gather the materials even if they were as "hard" to get as in 3rd or 4th gen. This is a design decision but it was not made to players convenience.
A little late to the party, but that gave me the benefit of commenting after the gone updates are done I don't mind going around to look for spiribirds at the start of each hunt, as it align well with me clearing any gathering subquests I might have picked up, but it kinda baffled me why they didn't add new petalaces into the into the game like they did with Rise. I would have loved a Fatalis-style petalace, one that quickly reaches its max values after only a couple spiribirds Heck, it doesn't even have to have super high max values, I would love one that extends all values by only 50 units, but only takes like 2 or 3 of each spiribird to max out.
The thing that I never understood was when they always complain about the running around to get them where as now you can just have the spirit birds call skill and now these you can just meld a talisman with spirit birds call skill in it. Sure it wasnt like that in base rise and sunbreak and you had to make the garangolem armor just to have it, but now since chaotic gore magala came to sunbreak you and it's even better since you can meld a talisman with the spirit bird's call skill with the aurora melding not only that we have mp accelerates which speed up the melding pot.
Something good about the newer games also is: what you see is what you get, if i see a herb plant in world rise i get herbs, while in older games you had to stop and gather on a spot to maybe get what you want and you just press a button and are quickly done with it, it may seem like a small thing but its honestly my main annoyance when playing games like GU or freedom unite now even if i enjoy those games a lot still.
I think the complaint comes from people who don't know that you always start the hunt at 150 HP (if you eat) but the petalace indicator for the HP & Stamina shows you could have more, thus creating the illusion that pre-hunt buffs were nerfed. Removing those indicators would probably solve the complaints since people see it & think they didn't get fully buffed when spiritbirds are infact extra bonuses.
They can change their petalace to make those lines smaller. What's interesting is that you can't unequip your petalace completely! That would be a quick, easy fix for the problem!
@@iixxion Equipping another petalace doesn't work either. I always use the Demon Petalace because MAX DeePS & even then it can let you reach up 200? HP. As you mentioned, removing it entirely would solve this illusionary problem but the game doesn't let you. The devs really want you to get those spiritbirds intentionally or unintentionally.
Its more the fact that Sunbreak is balanced around having max spiribirds, while in base rise this wasn't the case; the spiribirds were entirely negligible outside apex emergencies. People are just whining that they need to actually put some effort into getting the health needed to deal with master rank damage, all the while blissfully ignoring all the mechanics the game added to make it easier for them. Its actually pretty paradoxical to how the mh community usually deals with inconveniences. The old gen games had a laundry list of jank that made things exponentially more tedious and the fanbase treated every way to circumvent the jank as a useful life hack, like crouching to make the gathering animation slightly faster, or automatically climbing a surface with your weapon drawn by rolling into it etc.
I think no one needs spiritbirds if they're upgrading their Armor. I think its a reaction to seeing an empty bar. I personally love the birds. I collect some spiritbirds because I decided not to upgrade my defense through Armor Spheres at all, because the game felt too easy. Ive beaten pretty much everything there is to beat, gone up to about 160 anomaly and I still havent felt the need to upgrade my armor. I May be a veteran but Im not a pro, I cart just like everyone.
I absolutely LOVE the newer MH system of everything basically being integrated into the area/world/hunt. It feel denser, less monotonous, and frankly, I even love gathering now - so much so that I love starting over to force the requirement so I have a reason to go do it.
I think the problem is they'd rather just get the fight over with instead of taking 5 mins to buff up to NOT die in 2-3 hits... Given my general philosophy is "dead hunters deal no damage", I take my time to gather birds before a fight.
If you know the routes you’ll get max health(or close to max) in 1-2 minutes since we got wirebugs and palamute. My friend never picks up birbz and I arrive at the monster 30 seconds later than him tops, with almost full health. I often even arrive at the same time since I’ve learned the routes and mastered the wirebugs. People who complain about it taking too long can’t ever have played an older MH game.
@@HerEvilTwin As someone who came from the PSP era of MH, I can appreciate that the leeway for mistake in newer titles is a godsend... I mean level 190+ Scorned Magnamalo can delete your health in one hit with no additional health birds given how hard his attacks hit.
@@HerEvilTwin As someone who's first MH experience was 4 Ultimate, I can appreciate the fact that the game didn't treat me like a moron, had no bullshit and was straight to the point with me. You came to hunt? Go! Fight that lizard, make sure to come back alive! Monster Hunter Rise basically slapped my 17 times across my dick and balls and said: You came to hunt? You did? Well guess what: Fuck you, good sir. Now do us a favor and go collect these birds for a full health bar and stamina meter. What's that you have a Max Potion or an Ancient Potion? Well, guess what? They're worthless! Now go collect birds, idiot. Is it eventually going to be mandatory? Yes! Master Rank in its entirety and for one particular infamous quest, featuring Magnamalo. You're telling me that... In order to get into have fun, I have to... and I shit you not: In *EVERY. SINGLE. HUNT.* In *EVERY. SINGLE. QUEST.* Collect *10* of these fucking color-coded blobs so I can finally get to the actual fun part, so I don't take unreasonable damage that was made unreasonably high on purpose? If I so much as complete, abandon or fail any of the objectives, I have to repeat the process again? Man, that sounds like a great system! NO! It's a god-awful system.
Very good video. Back in the day, the real challenge was not carting. Simply because it cost so many resources to get back to the 150 Health and you lost all the food buffs. In fact, I used to stay at 100 when I carted until I had to down a Mega Potion. Simply because it was the most efficient way to use it. Since World we have 150 Health baseline and Capcom is using it. Getting more is still optional, but you don't want to be in the super moves even with 200. Now in Rise, I tend to get Spiribirds to just be more comfortable. Takes a few minutes, but greatly benefits my experience. Unless I'm feeling a bit frisky and want to check out if I'm faster, actually, by not investing that time. Low as it is with Call and Chammy Blessing 1. Just straight to the Monster and into the action. Which has much of the same effect downing the Mega Potion only when I absolutely had to used to have. I play more carefully but also keep up the aggression and even get more aggressive as I get better at reading the Monster (and my stats increase in Sunbreak). If you really are in that area where getting the Birds is annoying to no hell, but you feel like you have to get them, do what I just described. That way you still get all the benefits for the cost of two 1-Slots and you'll learn how to behave when you're more "vulnerable" while also eventually being a god. It's this neat little skill called adaptability that is at the core of any Hunt in this series.
Hey Ix, I've posted in other videos how I took a hiatus from this game after base 1.0. I'm now grinding through anomalies. Up until this point you know what I really missed? Monster tracks. And now that we have investigations again I'm glad we do, but I still miss the tracks.
before rise people really missed the strategic and preparation gameplay instead of just going out with your weapon and killing the monster cause thats all you had to do, but now that we have it, they complain. It's good that they made very difficult monsters so that we could engage in that strategic and prep playstyle so we would last against the battle
Is it really preparation and strategic though? I mean there is none of that against amatsu...there are several quests in arena like areas where there is the rainbow spiribird which also negates the idea of it being preparation and strategy. There is also the argument to be had that fights are balanced around players always having access to spiribirds shifting thr balance to expecting players to always have spiribirds used to max their stat caps. The problem is that it isn't a strategic option when the monsters have to be balanced for players who use spiribirds to have a fair challenge. It stops being strategic and becomes habitual. It is either that or get stomped flat by some horribly designed hurtbox. Low hanging fruit...anjy's grab attack has hit me even though I was about 5 yards away from the end of the animation. So, I disagree that is is preparation and strategic, it is rather a necessity and thus something that takes up various habitual behaviors. Behaviors that every player should take up if they want to avoid being overtaxed and enjoy their time in hunts. Apologies for the long winded response...
What's strategic about running through a fixed route? Inventory management and Item choices are one thing but let's not kid ourselves and here and try to mask the spiribird mechanic being a dumb and poorly thought out concept by making it out to be a substitute to Limited inventory management. One can be dealt with skill. The other is a bloat concept that adds nothing to your gameplay experience but waste time. And i'm sorry to say but this game is if nothing else, all about trashing on legacy skills
There is a way to get birbs and engage the monster faster. Spiribirb call lv1 will fill you with random birb every 1 minute, and chameleos blessing lv 1 deco can double the birb effect for a chance. And that only cost 1deco lv 1 slot. There is rampage deco too that attack you deal to monster have chance give you birb randomly.
People are STILL bitching about this? Oy. My Spiribird route in each map gets me TONS of gathering mats that inevitably become handy later on. And I can still get all that done (full spiribird buffs + a pouchfull of mats + monster ded) in about 15-20 minutes average. A bit longer if it's a multi-monster hunt. Doesn't reduce my enjoyment of the overall hunt in the least. I dunno, I get a nice endorphin rush in small increments with every bird buff as much as I do landing a crit on a monster's weak point.
Yeah, it takes very little time to collect them. You could say the extra 100 HP makes the game too easy as well, but Rise is just extremely easy anyway.
Good stuff as usual my guy Iixxion. In Sunbreak they made gathering the birds even EASIER too. with Spiribirds Call (a one slot deco) and a dango that has a chance to double every bird you pick up including ones that come to you from Spiribirds call. I don't mind the birds in Rise. I won't be mad if they don't return, but I wont be upset if they do either.
I will always maintain the only reason people complain is cause they can see the white bars all the time. I love your videos, they make me analyse what I dislike and why... often I see that my mindset is wrong.
Yeah, I really wish there were a way to toggle it, or maybe have them temporarily appear whenever you collect spiribirds for your health and stamina, it's quite the clutter and puts in me that urge to collect one or two more birds to just be topped off....
@@MaidenofMiracle Yeah it really should have been like past games stamina bars. Where you collect one and you see the max limit glow for a second or two and then it disappears.
Main reason why I hate them tbh. I also like having stuff stored for when I want to use it. This is just either farm 3 minutes every hunt or not at all (Spirit bird's call is a symptom of how terrible in design these birds are tbh)
@@SweatiestDegree Its a symptom of people complaining about how bad they "feel" the mechanic is. I think there is another issue with Rise anyway that causes this and unfortunately the devs might not realise because all the complaints dont address the real issue.
@@SweatiestDegree I would enjoy them more if they weren't so key to my consistent survival in farming anomaly investigations, running the same route on the same map over and over and over just for this unending grind really puts a damper on the casual choice when not using them risks me wasting 20-30 minutes on a single failed investigation...
I think the biggest miscomseption I also see with the birds is that 'We don't get our max health anymore, we HAVE to go find the birds.' Which just...isn't true? I've been playing Sunbreak and Gen U Back to back lately and I've noticed that in Gen U's canteen you can't surpass 50 in both Health and Stamina, granted you eat the right food. In Rise, you get 50 outright from the GET GO and beyond. And then it hit me; The birds aren't the max, they're BEYOND the max. And even if someone says 'Oh, anomaly quests with tighter timers don't give me the time to go get buffs.' If you're not doing enough damage. A. Make a better set or change your strategy. And B. Spiribird's Call is a decoration that exists now and gives you a random bird buff every like, I think it's 20 seconds until you've hit your max in every stat. I've ended hunts fully maxed before because of it. TL;DR, Spiribirds aren't the max, and you've always gotten and still do get max from the canteen. The Birds are extra, and getting them is easy, and even easier now in Sunbreak thanks to Spiribird's Call being a decoration now. Awesome vid by the way.
?? beyond the max doesn't exist Max health possible is still Max health possible What you used to get with an ancient/max potion has been divided into the canteen and spiribird. You are not at max health if you haven't taken spiribirds. Mh games don't have similar values and numericals either. So i don't know why you would think the numbers in one game would have any relevance with the other. Sunbreak has attack power in the hundreds with top ones barely breaking the 350 mark while we have multiple 1000+ weapon damage in Iceborne easy That's why they had vitality jewels for max health in the older games instead of this useless bloat mechanic And Cry me a river, who gives a rat's ass about green spiribirds anyway. MH has always been about 'Safety behind damage'. The more dps you put out, the more flinches, stuns and predictable animations you get that limits the monster's time of attacking you. Safety behind damage. I couldn't care less about limiting health behind spiribird but why the fuck would you hide my dps as red spiribirds beyond a forced mechanic that involves braindead trudging through premeditated routes? And before you go try defending the thing, recall the very concept of anomaly monsters. They are a dps check fight at it's very core not to mention anomaly monsters had dumptruck loads of Hp and the flinch and stun gauges were also pumped up proportionally so no, even with the best possible set sans any rng qurio aid(which is another cancer btw), you needed that buff to effectively be safe. You say, well if you dislike it then don't collect them. I would. yeah but unfortunately, they tied it around balance. Which is why anomalies were dps checks with damage sponge levels of hp on release. And also why they were overcompensating it with Insane new sets and equipment skills to the point lv300 anomaly is a fucking joke and done in under 5 mins. This whole game has been nothing but one bad decision after another, even the seemingly good decisions ware nothing but band aids on a burning ship.
@@Uzumaki.9 You talk alot but barely make sense... Key thing here is the game is 100% doable with 150HP. Picking green spiribirds are just a bonus to make the hunt easier to ease up newer players... If you need them to finish a hunt then you are the target demographic for the feature... Simple. I don't understand how adding QoL and optional at that is a bad decision in anyway...
@@vivid8979Not gonna waste time with someone that either doesn't bother to read before replying or has comprehension issues. I couldn't care less about the health. It's the spiribird mechanic that's trash for hiding dps behind what is essentially nothing else but a time waster. The health granted by vitality gems being hidden away behind useless time investment is just a bonus on the shit sandwich they were already serving. and before you bitch about the dps being only 20 attack you should first realize that anomaly monsters were nothing but hp sponges and dps checks on release. I'd already mentioned these things previously but it's obvious you didn't understand anything cuz you are not even talking about the same thing and fyi, vitality gems gave you the health bonus that spiribirds do now. Wasting time running around for spiribirds instead of being able to slot in vitality jewel instantly at no time cost is what qualifies for a QoL change now, eh?
already toldya guys, spiribird gem + birdcaller dango 4 is the way to go if you don't want to collect usually. no one listens to the guy with creepling anxiety'
As a host I find it peaceful running through my routes collecting birds before everyone else shows up. It's not like you have to go out of your way to pick them up, they're literally everywhere. I do think it'd be cool if every map had one of those special birds that maxes you out somewhere out of the way and hard to get to. Maybe make them spawn in random locations or something. You'd need to do some crazy parkour to get it. Would add an extra little something to each mission I think.
For me those pickups did lessen my map knowledge to a minimal amount, i dont need these birds because intrepid heart and other shields exists, so as result i barly know maps in rise. Also i miss my Farm in Pokke village i liked those cats so funny to see them run in with big barrel bombs on their hand and getting flung out again xD
i dunno, sounds like a bunch of mental gymnastics just trying to prove that spiribirds were a good addition to the game. Feels like a waste of time every hunt, world did it better, and it should have never changed
Spiribirds is a good example of loss aversion. Being able to reach 250 health by collecting birds doesn't seem to pay off the fact that you start at 150. This is also known as being spoiled or underappreciation.
"back in my day....etc" but it's literally true! Spiribirds are a huuuge bonus that we only dreamed of ten years ago. Even five years ago! Even three years ago!
@@iixxion Let's not forget you can dramatically speed up your bird gathering even further using the Spiribird's Call and Chameleos Blessing armor skills, which can also be obtained via 1-slot decorations, and Qurios Crafting now allows us to get extra deco slottage without stat loss, so there's literally no excuse for even needing to spend up to 3 minutes gathering them. At this point, complaining about the birds is the epitome of entitlement.
or you can call it a poorly designed system as well I mean why ignore people's complaints and just say they're spoiled and don't know any better... yikes
@@SweatiestDegree You can call it whatever you want! Most of us love the system, and understand that it's well-designed within the scope and tradition of the game series.
@@SweatiestDegree I'm literally addressing the problem. Loss aversion. They didn't take that into consideration. The system on birds and petalace isn't bad, but like the some other comments mentions, if players didn't constantly see the white part, no one would complain, except that some players would point that they could have 200hp from start easy back in World/Iceborne. That's where "being spoiled" is a term that makes a lot of sense to use. Not even in a degrading or disrespectful manner, is just how you call when we get too much used to something in a bad way. When we get bad accustomed to something. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. yaykes
I like the endemic life along Rise and Sunbreak, but for some reason Life and Stamina spiribirds hit different, attack defense hunting helpers and all the other things feel right, and arena missions spiribirds feel great, but i dont think spiribirds act well as a REPLACEMENT of max health and stamina skills. (even worse when entering high level investigations) Nutrients and max potions could be farmed and bought with points(mhfu forward), you went couple egg hunts/arena quests, and thats all, hard quests settled with max hp till the next rank. now you have to stop the quest you doing to get them again and again, interrupting the gameplay flow every single hard quest, not just once in a while. Hp+Stamina skills are an optional slot in world/iceborne that works with the food to give you 200hp and both the food and the skills are a bonus, not base-line. Now you have a bonus you need to stop playing mh go jump around couple minutes every hunt to fill. And despite that, i kinda like spiribirds as a concept, an optional bonus, but Hp ones needed a bit of a rethinking in my opinion.
Dude even packing Spiribird's Call can mitigate these complaints from these players. They can pick up NO BIRDS and still be rewarded the longer the hunt goes. Yeah it's random but passively getting them is such a godsend and it's A ONE SLOT DECO. I feel like the devs made getting spiribirds way easier with this and people kind of just overlooked it
tbh this "problem" is something that capcom has fabricated with their almost obsessive concentration on preparation. the gamers got used to almost obsessively optimizing their inventory,gear and buffs pre hunt, to then have everything ready from the moment the quest starts. by putting the buffs in the same quest as the monster, capcom has completely disrupted the players flow of thought with an *extra step* that doesnt exist. you dont have extra work to do, youre still doing a preparing gathering run, its just that you dont have to pass 2 additional loading screens for it
Just started playing Rise and new to Bow, love your videos and I really appreciated this one. Being a new player I enjoy gathering and have fun collecting the song birds and fish buffs before I engage the monsters. Do you think you might do a new bow guide for beginners if one is needed for any changes that have been made since your last? I am also trying to see what early game sets I want t focus on, I really just started the game last night haha. Thanks for the videos !
nice! I have a video for base game armor pieces that I used for bow. check that one out too! My channel started as a bow channel, so I have dozens of videos covering so many bow topics. I do plan to make a beginner's guide like my other three, but for now, you can get most of what you need from my playlist I think it's called best bow videos!
@@Squeebop Still a bow channel at heart; but i wanted to get these tutorials out for all the new players coming in! the game has changed so much and the popular tutorials are out of date, plus they kinda suck...long term, i'm a MH channel. that will never change! MH8, i'll probably switch weapons...
I honestly love spirtbrids I feel like it gives u a nice feeling of getting stronger throughout the quest and it's fun imo to run around before the quest getting spirtbrids mining bug catching etc.
Nah id like to go back to no storage to camp and old style. Eat and bring 2 max potions and an ancient potion you cart the max amount with assurance you still have full health with 2 item slots
I'm already at the point where I can kill the monster with in 8 minutes, but that is on the S+ days where I channel the ten percent godly powers of my SNS, but I'm not a god the rest of the time. I enjoy gathering and preparing ahead, the crafting system and gathering make it easier for me to have an extra surplus of mega potions and honey. It is my choice to hunt like that
So long as you're choosing to hunt like that when solo, that's fine. The issue becomes when you hunt like that in multiplayer with randoms and you carting screws them out of rewards or risks failing the hunt at their expense. Don't be that guy, be courteous when you're joining someone else's hunt or putting up a join request and asking for other peoples' assistance.
While I don't think a return to the old ways would make veterans quit, that's probably true for new players. Spirit Birds and endemic life, as well as camp item replenishment are all optional, as you say, so people shouldn't complain. Just ignore festures one doesn't like, it's what I do.
I think that a lot of this debate stems from the FEELING that spiritbirds are a necessary mechanic that you must do every hunt no matter what. When in practice, it isn't. Anyone with the confidence and skill behind they're weapon of choice can go out and take down any monster without the assistance of the spiritbirds. The only place in the game where this feeling is strongly enforced is at the upper end of the anomaly investigations. Can't really prove this without anyone from the anti-spiritbird camp giving their opinion, but I think this is where a link between the two sides of the debate can be found. On one side we have something along the lines of, "I don't see what the big deal is. It only takes a few minutes to get the birds and then you're back at it. What's the problem?" Followed by the very simple answer of, "I just like them as a mechanic. I hate being shoehorned into collecting them. I want to spend my time hunting not collecting." And on BOTH sides, albeit pretty rare, there are those who look down on and mock whichever side they happen to oppose. All this stems from a collective refusal to simply shake hands, let people play how they want to play, and form and keep their own opinion as to what they do and don't like about the game. Debates like this start because someone believes that their opinion is better than someone else's and that they should play the game similarly to them. Personally, I like the spiritbirds. I enjoy the calm before the storm. Gives me time to plan and strategize. But I understand and accept that not everyone likes to do things my way. And honestly, it's better that way.
The thing that really frustrates me about birds is that it presents a balancing conundrum for the developers. If you balance monsters' damage output on the assumption that people will collect spiribirds then you begin to create one-shot scenarios for people who don't, like in super high end anomalies or apex emergencies in base game, and then you legitimately are trying to force people to collect them. Alternatively, if you balance around hunters who don't collect spiribirds, then it undermines any attempt the developers make at creating challenge since bird farming essentially becomes an easy mode. Not to mention that for people who don't typically farm birds, when the devs try to significantly strengthen the monsters, the difficulty then feels extremely artificial since they just have to spend several minutes farming birds only to have the same effective bulk they already had before. The only quests that don't have this problem are the ones that occur in arena maps that give you a rainbow bird immediately, and imo those are the most fun and well-balanced in the game.
I have no hate for people who like spiritbirds, I also think that if I were to collect spirit birds every time I go out it would be not only time consuming but not fun, running the same 3 minute route every 10 minutes isn't fun for me. Now what I think is there should be more options not fewer, if capcom wants you to be able to "farm" in short bursts in every hunt good... ok... but let me farm as well and decide to carry items that will just let me hunt. I was playing world on steam deck and one of the things I did on the train to work was farming some guiding lands for materials to then use on the Steamworks for items. this allowed me to be chill and get ready for when I got home at night and did some hunting. so let me gather birds to make some juice and let ME choose when to use that juice for the extra stats. I mean spiritbirds call is a bandaid, if they were so fun and engaging to collect that you wouldn't mind 20% of every hunt you're on just being collecting birds this deco wouldn't exist at least with ancient potions I CHOSE when to farm and I CHOSE when to use them, I didn't have to constantly farm 3 minutes every hunt
@@Huuuuuuue it's a crap system and shouldn't be the only option to get the full buffs, a spirit bird potion you could farm up would clear all this up. or not have them at all and just use Demon drugs etc if you want more humpf! but if you don't like spirit birds you're just called spoiled so idk xD
@@Huuuuuuue I could understand that point of view. It presents the scenario where the devs then have to pick a side and leave the other behind. The only question then would be whether or not the developers did indeed balance around the birds existence. As a proponent of birds, I think that being able to have a rainbow bird in maps would be cool. Not sure how to best implement that idea though.
It's pretty clear that they're balancing around 150 health. If you think the monsters are hard with 150 health, welcome to Monster Hunter! Every game in the series has been THAT hard. 250 health is awesome, and I get it nearly every time in endgame, and that's why this game is a lot easier now than ever before. If you want to know the upper limit of difficulty that the devs intended for the game, then you play with 150 health.
Honestly I never got the spirit bird complaints, it take like 3-4 minutes to gather the birds without a palimute (the palicos give too much utility), and along the way you’ll get a lot of different useful endemic life and will probably be going in the direction of the monster
I never understood why people complained about the birds. I thought it was a nice little optional bonus. But then, I tend to forget that most people complaining about anything in MH, are coming from World as their first title. I have to say, back in 3U, and somewhat in 4U even, you might not even have enough room in your pockets to carve! Haha, the good old days... And remember the "gather 20 choice mushroom" quests, etc, and you'd have to start throwing stuff away everytime you gathered a new item? But gathering quests in Gen were much better with the Prowler class. Side note, anyone think the Prowler class should make a comeback?
The bigger issue with spiritbirds is that it contradicts the get in and fight mentality of sunbreak. It isn't logical to compare it to games before World, as World introduced a much bigger mainstream audience than the old games ever had. The QoL changes in World are why it seems like it's taking a step back. You wouldn't compare a game to a version 2 or 3 back, you would compare it to the one just before. Also, going from 100 health to 250 is not an insignificant amount. The spiritbirds were almost meant to be an excuse for you to explore the map with your improved mobility and speed. I don't think spiritbirds are game breakingly horrible, but if you're used to hunting with any sort of efficiency, they do become tedious very quickly. They seem to be one of those features that started off with Rise and they just kind of let it become forgotten, just like the Rampage. If they wanted to continue the spiritbird design and make them meaningful, they would've added MR versions of Petalaces, but both Petalaces and Rampage were obvious that they were not good or liked, so they didn't carry that gameplay forward. Also, if they made more powerful versions of Petalaces, it would put even more emphasis on the birds and probably cause more frustration. Again, they are not insignificant buffs. That's why they give you a max bird on arena quests. That's why people mod their game to put a max bird at every spawn. Any time you put a game mechanic that becomes tedious to the player, they will mod the game to "fix" it, whether it be spiritbirds, talismen, or decos in world etc.
Just because 20 years ago Capcom decided to do it some way to artificially inflate the game time experience for their console games, doesn't mean that the current interaction is good, World has done it right for many features of the game, and they should have become baseline for future expectations. There is absolutely no justification to artificially put in hurdles just so you can survive end game monster's "pseudo-one-shot" mechanics, specially on multiplayer, so much so that people opt to play almost exclusively on the arena maps for the 200+ anomalies grind whenever it is possible.
@@iixxion You're definitely right about that, specially when they keep giving you tracks after you maxed them out for no reason, that's a point to improve upon
I play this game much more than my friends do, but every time I play with them and I go around and pick up Spiribirds... They question me about why I do it, saying it's a "waste of time". But to me, being on the grind for Anomaly level 300, getting some additional health, defense, stamina and attack stats feels like second nature now. I spend a minute or three walking to the monster instead of fast traveling to it, and I get to live a hit I otherwise wouldn't have. It's only beneficial to me, at the end of the day, and I don't feel like my hunts take significantly longer by picking some birds up. I feel like people throw shade at the Spiribirds not because they are a "bad" mechanic, but because they haven't yet had a "real" reason to go out of their way and gain these bonus stats.
They should meet us halfway. Ancient potions could give 25 HP/STAM and birds the other 25. Both camps “happy”. Instant buff like world but also some added bonus while you out on the hunt. I personally hate the system but that’s just me.
Nope. I’m sorry, but there’s no way you can convince me Spiribirds are a good mechanic. They’re completely *unnecessary.* Granted, sunbreak isnt out for ps5 yet, so idk if this is already the case, but what they COULD do is make it so the Spiribirds always respawn in random locations for each hunt and/or have there always be one MAX Spiribird in each locale that’s hard to find. That would at least do away with the monotony of finding a path that works for you and doing it every single frickin time before you fight. But the way it is now? It’s just tedious and feels very “padding-for-game-time”… which would be THE dumbest thing for a MH game, but given the base game’s initial release, kinda sorta makes sense. But even that aside, I could fix the whole ancient potion debaccle easily: Make it so ancient potion is a permanent effect for each hunt, and that you can only eat 1 per hunt throughout the whole quest. It fixes everything; -Adds a bit more lore-y flare to the whole “ancient” thing, very powerful but a bit unstable, which is why it’s only semi-permanent -you only can hold 1 anyway, so while max’s still function the same, ancient are a once-per-quest thing, freeing up a pouch space anyway -keep it being something you cant make a trillion of anytime soon, so an infrequent but steady supply, enough for at least your major hunts -still encourages travel and scavenging to find the rare ingredients to make it Boom, done. That’s just off the top of my head. So it can’t be abused, and you dont have to waste 5 min. every single quest chasing around static hummingbirds that just sit there and wait for literally only you to collect them (seriously, what the actual f*ck is up with that???). So in all, just IN MY OPINION, spiribirds are dumb. I understand its a creative design choice by the devs who wanna try something new. But not every idea is a good idea, and as just from a player perspective, I know for a fact that there’s no way this was absolutely the BEST design/gameplay choice they could’ve gone with. Not knockin’ anyone who enjoys it, but people who think it’s stupid I think have an equally arguable case as to why.
what about the monotony of running to the monster the exact same way every time? (or one of only three ways) knowing exactly where it is every time? the design choice they made was to make the game faster and easier, which spiribirds do for the majority of players, without making this a pure boss-rush type game. if we're randomizing things, then let's bring back the paintballs and get rid of the cohoot. if we still have access to our box, then we need to make ancient potions harder to craft. otherwise, you may as well just boost max health automatically...which creates a new baseline....at which point people will be whining that they took away our health bonuses... how about this: a fixed number of birds, in semi-random locations, and only one player can get each one.......
Oh, I definitely agree; doing away with paintballs, psychoserum, and even the blimp spotter guy was a bad choice all around, imo. Even the scoutflies mechanic at least still left plenty of tracking aspect of, ya know, being a HUNTER…? I understand the whole ‘broader appeal/wider audience/tune it for the casuals’ which are the majority thing; that was inevitable. But i think sacrificing a bit of it’s identity of the niche following it built up is quite the shame. Honestly, I’d be fine with the meals themselves being the end all be all of max health & stamina. Having us hunt and gather rare ingredients to eventually make super potent meals would be perfect. As for the birds, i could get behind that. Or at the very least, every 100 birds you gather actually buffs that aspect of that particular stat PERMANENTLY permanently. There’s definitely compromises and mediums we could come to.
Meh, I just preferred that inventory management aspects of previous game, and the whole ritual of chugging buffs like you're dying of thirst before every hunt. But you know how I fix the issue? I don't use the tent, and I don't pick up birds.
my only issue with monster hunter nowadays is that since hunters get stronger with each installment, capcom decided that the only way for monsters to catch up is by spamming meteors everywhere. It gets increasingly ridiculous with every game I swear😂I wish the monsters were a tad more grounded in their fights while still being difficult to play.
Naw people who say they like the spiribird system are mid. I like the old system of popping an ancient and fighting the monster. Going the same route for spiribirds after 1000+ hunts is not fun.
Yup, but hey if you haven't played since MH1 you don't know the struggles apparently... I also think it's funny defending a poorly designed system with well back in my day sunny jim we had to walk 12 miles to the well to get water and play pokemon red with a lamp on. ok gramps (i'm old aswell so idk what I'm talking about) but birds are a crap system still :)
You can say that up until high-level Anomaly Rank hunts where the level 120+ Afflicted Scorned Magnemalo will one-shot you without the added health or defense. Do whatever you like if you are soloing those endgame hunts, but the minute you step into online multiplayer, if you're the guy carting repeatedly because you rush to the monster and don't collect the health and defense buffs, or run out of stamina and can't dodge said one-shot attack, or aren't pulling your weight to destroy the red target areas fast enough, people will remember your character name and will start kicking you every time you show up to a hunt.
@@davekaye5483 I'm at the point where my build can't get any stronger. Trust me when I say spiribirds are optional. If I cart, it's cause I'm playing greedily, not because I'm under 250hp.
@@macfallan that's always the case IMO, I'm only at lvl 130 atm and if I cart in one shot (gunner) I messed up and that's it also haven't been one shot that often playing melee builds unless I get greedy and recover at a stupid time. Hell if you really want to be safe you can just eat for moxie, birds add nothing to this game. They just take away one's choice to COME prepared instead you have to run around like an idiot every hunt collecting birds if you want the max stats.
People complaining health problems? man, lets see, yes its a vital thing to take note but soon you realise, endgame monsters can kill you in one hit, or hit hard to drain most of health bar its a sorta lesson that say, you aren't invincible, take it or dodge the hit and you can feel satisfied that you dodged a bitchslap from enemy
IMO the spiritbird system is good but it shouldn't take away all the bonuses each quest. Repetitiveness becomes boring. Personally I would take away a percentage of the bonuses on carting or quest completion, so subsequent quests would require only a fraction of the spirit bird gathering and there's more motivation to farm spirit birds since they'd become a semi-persistent bonus.
It’s not even 5 minutes to be honest. Especially if you have 1 Spirit Bird Caller deco. (Optional, LV3 or Lv4 Spiritbird Dango.) Don’t understand these complaints on an *optional* mechanic. Which, again, if you want the buffs, look into just one deco.
Like you asked do we need old ancient potion mechanism over spirit bird? YES, YES MF yes we need that back this bs is a curse i hope they dont bring spirit bird back in wilds, hate the whole concept its bad and it is annoying and makes me angry
overall i enjoy the idea of spiribirds as a concept. However i do wish that HP was not one that was included. I think that the Attack, Stamina and especially the Defense Birds should have been more impactful. Then the game doesnt need to be balanced around assuming all players have an additional 100 HP and players who wanted to have more damage or defense could still collect birds and truly feel rewarded for it. Meanwhile those who didnt enjoy the bird mechanic can ignore it and not feel as though they are being severely punished.
2 mins per quest for perma buffing + 7-15 mins of fight with a monster seems pretty good to me. That or faming materials for a max potion which can be demoralizing because u have to farm farm for 50mins or so for maybe 4-7 max potions at best. Capcom also gave us the option to re-eat a meal for a better option. I'm just looking forward for the next MH game.
Monster Hunter evolved to something different that what it was before, dont get me wrong, i love monster hunter rise, but to me, an OG player that his first MH game was MH Freedom 2 on the psp, there was a thing from spending and planing your hunt, like... really, if you didnt prepared at all, you suffered the consequenses, it WAS a HUNTING game, you vs the monster. Indeed i still play some on emulators on my mobile. Today "Gathering" feels something like a chore... but only that, not really a substance, just a mere buff, before you really had to thought throughly your plan, think ahead what would you do to hunt the monster, was really challenging and i loved it. I know its niche gaming... but i really missed that feeling but with better enviroments and what not. i like and I enjoy MHRise, i mean, a lot, but I get the feeling of people complaining MHrise being more... casual? I dunno how to explain it, but the hardcore part and the most dificult was indeed what you call "painful" its the steep learning curve that has, but once you are on the other side... uff... each hunt feels a lot rewarding, much more than today. I felt proud of the sets i did to pass the game. i love your videos, just in this case, i dont share the view, but its good the changes made people discovered the franchaise and more easy to play Edit; grammar
I personally think the spirit are amazing because the majority of the quest have 50min time. Like you so much free to to go fishing, collecting spirit birds, cook well done steak and go mining. And you still got a lot of time left.
also wet some are takeing in to kinsitorayins is that the bons healt and samitna ther then them all redey being ther to some point the bons haelt and satmna barsis are part do to both the dongos and petalacesis you put on befor even leveing for a hunt so that to is y wen starting a quest in rsie or sunbrake ther are gery partsis to both the haelt and satmna barsis its not that ther missing ther ther but if you wet thos bonsis you hav to go get thos spirt birdsis to ther wise wet you even see in this video with the green and yellow barsis thos partsis that are wite or grey are the bons haelt and satmna do to you so if you go runing right to the monster both the green and yellow barsis will look how thay do even won cuz you may not be trying to rush the hunt but thas wet your doing to your self be not go after them its not that you hav not geting redey as you hav not even begun the hunt yet so by got yello spirtbirds you get more satmna if you get more green spirtbirds you get more haelt and along the way thers thing to help you keep going hreb for poinsis antadot fo anteypoins huskbersy for amo needillbersis for picersis amo yellow musroomsis for things to paralziey dug fo exozt aom and cotin fier herb for fier amo and alll this can be found wilde you go abuot geting spirtbirdsis and all thos things are usis in alcme and if you mark them as a musth make item wen you go to grab them thay will trund into thos alcme itmes you wood make so wilde hunting you do not hav to make them as offend you stell can make them on quest if you like but you hav to do so your self the game dos not do all fo every thing for you you hav to do some your self to juts like if you wet to make armor you hav to ther kill the monster or capsher it in a tarp like a pitfall or surktarp tho ther are ther ways fo tarping to hav a nices day
So many spiritbirds haters and health being nerfed but every """smart hunter""" it's running the same Dereliction builds with the same armor pieces with the same switch sets Let the people enjoy the game, and maybe you can enjoy it too
I started with world before working my way back to 4u. So far, I've found the success of the hunt more satisfying on the older games. I end up just mindlessly hunting in the new games... To me that is removing something crucial. The emphasis on streamlining games reminds me of the newer movies being put out. Pretty to watch but only really enjoyable if you don't want to think too hard. Some times I do want that restriction and tedium since it adds to my enjoyment. So for me, this hasn't been an "added more" but rather hollowed out the experience. On the surface is more but underneath is less. The shortest way I can state this is: it isn't that these features aren't adding, it is that what they add seems like a slippery slope to a bloated, turn your minds off kind of play. I find that to be what perturbs me the most about this.
No I'd much rather the game be harder and more limited. Spiribirds are horribly annoying. Or I'd rather a different better system. I don't mind eating I wouldn't mind tents not being so op I wouldn't mind having to figure in armor skills if I needed them. There's a lot I hate about the way rise feels and spiribirds are a big center piece reminding me of that every hunt. You call the old system archaic but I don't like having to consider that a negative. I feel like I needed spiribirds to play the game safely. It took me longer than 60 seconds to get all the birds to max to feel like the fight could be the best it could be for me. It doesn't feel like an option for casual newer players. It feels like coming out of world I just struggle annoyingly to get to a more playable state and it broke what I felt like was a good idea of a gameplay loop. I wanted world to be not so easy with it and to be able to enjoy gathering or farming more. I hope wilds goes more into survival and gathering and less hand outs and easy cheesy tent stuff. I think you should have at most an extra box you take with you of some extra mats but not the whole thing or a whole lot for each stack either.
I understand your point of older games having health being less accessible, but its not a good reason going forward to have a bad one. It sucks having to waste time every quest to run around and pick them up. It was fun the first few times, but its monster hunter - not rinse and repeat bird collector. If anything they should do the spirit birds, but once per new area, and now just be blessed with whatever stats you picked up like a permanent buff for that zone. Have less birds, more scattered - make it a scavenger hunt, but just once. (or once per rank?) But l appreciate the attempt on a new system and way to buff, but this just feels like its wasting my time and not doing the 'fun' stuff i want to do. Also given how "grindy" this game is, the constant bird collecting issue is exacerbated.
@@iixxion Probably 2-3 mins, i did just discover that you can attack the bushes to find randos...but again its 2-3 mins x 10 hunts or more thats 20-30 minutes of not actually hunting and playing a parkour sim.
I just bought Rise. I'm only on four star quests and I already hate Spiribirds and how much of my time they waste. 8-10 minutes running around collecting them only to spend five minutes to kill the monster. Might be forgivable if the devs weren't spiteful bastards about making the birds the ONLY way to get your health up. No Vitality skill, no Nutrients, max and ancient potion don't max your health. They knew this system sucked.
the mechanic would work better on a game like world, rise is more about going to the monster and fight them, more frenetic, thats the gameplay idea its a okay idea in the wrong game
People HATE "getting with the program"...or was it called" adapting to survive". Like I'm going to walk up on Afflicted Shagaru at BASE health so it could 1 shot me(there is NO RESISTANCE for frenzy explosions. No deco to reduce damage from it.)!?! Rather use GL with wirebug whisper lv3,artillery lv3,quick sheath lv3,load shells lv2,guard lv5,guard up lv3,speed eating lv3 to deal with such after adding spiribird call lv1to setup.
@@NeuraliXYou are NOT better than me. YOU KNOW it. Stop trying my patience...I'm BATMAN™. It's called "prep time". GET USED TO IT. Don't care about SPEEDRUNNING right now. I KNOW you reported. I'm NOT GOING ANYWHERE. How I hunt is NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS. It's not for everyone...
Interesting take but ultimately incorrect. Too simple of a comparison that doesn't compare the right things in the first place. To get max HP in older games, you either slotted in Health gems which gave perma boost or you eat meal that gives temporary. In World, they stacked and you got 200. But it was in true essence the same, until Rise. See, what you are forgetting to remind people is that these things are balanced. Same as how Monster HP and attack values are proportionally adjusted as per Gear Values/Skills, Health and Stamina are adjusted as per Monster attacks all the same. (No two MH games have similar Gear values. Some stay in the triple digits while others go upto into the thousands. In the same vein, value calculation is also wildly different depending on the game you pick) However, the resulting gameplay is always the same. 99% of attacks from endgame monsters will OHKO IF YOU DON"T HAVE THE MAX HEALTH POSSIBLE in the game. No matter which MH title it is. HOWEVER, the difference in Rise is that they make you waste time and fill your play time with banal traversing to get it. Older game: Perma Max HP = Decos/Armor Skills. CAN BE DONE INSTANTLY AND PERMANENTLY. MHW/IB: Perma Max HP = Decos/Armor Skills + Unlimited Meals/Max/Anc.Pots. CAN BE DONE INSTANTLY AND PERMANENTLY. Now look at this, MHR/SB: Perma Max HP = Food + Spiribird. Health decos/armor skills dont exist. NEEDS 30 SEC to 1 MIN PER **EVERY QUEST** Also gameplay is same in regards to tanking hits in the game. Endgame monsters will OHKO if you are not at max possible health in both games. BUT RISE LOCKS YOUR MAX HP BEHIND POINTLESS TRAVELLING. AND THAT'S NOT EVEN THE WORST OF IT. See MH meta (not speedrunning, those guys are a different sort of animal) has always been about doing as much dps as possible, as REASONABLY as possible(speedrunning doesn't have reason, only dps). Because more dps means the monster flinches quicker, knocks down quicker and ultimately dies quicker, limiting the opportunities of you falling prey to a OHKO or getting hit and having to waste time, spending it to heal back up. Therefore Max Attack + some comfort skills as per skill level has always been the way to go. And that has always been achievable at a hat's drop for every quest. All it would take was some moving around decos, armor skills and the obligatory food buff every mission. BUT THIS FUCKING SPIRIBIRD MECHANIC EVEN LOCKS YOU OUT OF MAX POSSIBLE DAMAGE ALONGSIDE THE HP FOR NO GOOD REASON. And the worst part is that Attack damage gains are not a straight gain but a compounding one. The more dps you have, the faster you flinch/down a monster. The more and faster you flinch a monster, the more dps output is available to you. That compuunds and leads to a much faster conclusion to the fight. SO DEVS BALANCE MONSTER HP AND ATTACK WITH HUNTER MAX ATTACK AND HP POSSIBLE EXACTLY SAME AS BEFORE BUT THIS TIME THEY MAKE YOU WASTE 1 MIN EVERY HUNT TO GET IT. Spiribird is nothing but a delaying/time-sponge technique meant to boost playtime so they can market it as so and so hours of gameplay. And just to prove how failed of a design mechanic it was, they tried to backtrack in SB by introducing a lv1 deco Spiribird Call to compensate for it. Very High value but ultimately a bad implementation like the mechanic itself. Getting attack and hp spiribird is still a RNG mechanic when you want Max attack from the beginning of the fight itself to make it as short as possible, as calculated by the devs. Love the Franchise and I love and beyond thankful to the dev team for making a masterpiece of a game that was MHW/IB despite being the only existing one of its kind. In a decade where we only get half-baked buggy trash and corporate meddled products, these guys reminded everyone what creating a classic video game was even while the monopoly was theirs. Still that doesn't mean you can put makeup on a hog and call it a queen. MHR/SB is a failed entry in the series and the Spiribird is just of it's many problems.
Personally, I disagree with your take on Rise giving you the opportunity to ignore gathering by implementing spirit birds. You’re argument (unless I’m misunderstanding it, which is DEFINITELY possible) is that spirit birds are good because they are a new form of gathering to replace the old one (no more need of going on a gathering quest cause you can just collect everything you need in the first minute of the quest). I disagree with the part of gathering quest no longer being needed. The way I understand it, your argument is OldSchool=50 minute gathering quest then hunt, NewSchool=gathering for 1 minute during hunt. While I agree with the oldschool take, personally, as someone who still likes to use the items that give me an advantage (aka non Endemic Life items), I still have to go on gather quests anyways. So I’m still going out on gather quests, collecting items, farming, getting prepped for a hunt.. then I start a quest and have to do even more prep by collecting birds since their bonus is no longer available as a farming piece of material, and then hunt the monster. So let’s say gather quest now take less time because of spiritbirds. For me, it still feels like going on a newschool = 30 minute gather quest, then at the beginning of a hunt spend 1 minute collecting birds, then I can actually hunt. Personally, I think the only fix that the game needs is to just add the items back and that’s it. Imagine having one of two options. Option 1 being you can choose to have permanent health during the quest at the cost of spending time collecting birds at the beginning (this can be favored by those who don’t want to spend time collecting materials for max potions before a quest), or Option 2, you can temporarily have max health at the beginning of a quest instantly at the cost of both preparing for it earlier / losing it on cart (this can be favored by those who don’t want to spend time collecting spirit birds during the quest). At the very least, having it work this way can be an extra reward for players like me who still spend a lot of time gather materials on expositions anyways
Endemic life doesn't replace gathering. It is PART of gathering, which is, to me, an fundamental part of Monster Hunter. So when people complain that "you have to waste time gathering stuff", I feel like they miss the point of MH completely.
@@iixxion fair enough. My only issue is that it’s gathering done during a hunting quest. I understand this can be better for some players, since they can farm materials while collecting birds, but personally I enjoy doing one massive chore to then engage with the hunting aspect of monster hunter longer until I need to do that massive chore again, than consistently doing a very tiny chore every quest. I don’t dislike spirit birds tho, I just lowkey would like the convenience of having an item to max out your health back (or at the very least, the convenience of having your health maxed out when you eat). Then again, maybe it would break the game in half to have both birds and max potions, but I would like to see if it’s maybe possible to have both
The folks that overly complain about the spirit birds are the same folks that complain when a new monster is released and they can't just use their high dps builds to wack it to death and complain that the monster is too hard or cheap. I like the spirit birds it's fun to gather them for me. I wish more players took the time to gather them instead of just unga bunga the hunt whenever they get into one (long sword and duel blade users especially I'm looking at y'all) instead of wasting team carts. Nothing wrong with loving the old monster hunter games but if your thoughts are that the new games are so disastrous go back and stay playing the old ones no one is stopping you all from doing that.
I get what you are saying here, but the problem with the spiritbirds is that you have to do it every single hunt, and it's especially annoying if you have to hunt with others. Yes, before you had to go on gathering quests, sacrifice pouch space and all that, but that was all part of the preparation previous to the hunt. Now you have to prepare for the hunt WHILE you are already hunting, and that's what makes it annoying, i want to do all my preparations and then focus on hunting, it's not fun to have to dedicate time for it when you want to be killing the monsters. When playing with friends it makes things even more annoying because everyone is gathering the birds on their own and then we had to re-gather to start the fight, and sometimes one of the team just couldn't find as many birds and took longer to get started and it's just so boring and annoying! With Gathering quests you could simply do the gathering on your own time and then have everything ready to hunt with your pals, it simply dosn't work.
The only thing that annoys me about petalaces is that we didnt get rarity 10 petalaces. It disturbs me so much having everything but one thing the same color.
good point! im guessing we'll get them in TU5
@@iixxion I agree but I afraid they would add RNG onto them
I think its about the presentation. By making that grey health / stamina bar always visible at the top, people are perceiving that as missing rather than the original intention as bonus. Its ui design certainly gave dissatisfaction to some min maxers too. It’s psychological thing. It’s still the bonus at the end but rather poorly presented IMO
agreed.
I see it as a redundant feature. Collecting random birds a minute before every hunt doesn't make the game better in my eyes. I can see why people think it's a terrible feature regardless of how prep intensive the previous entries were.
Agree. It's about the mindfulness of the preparation. Running a predetermined route to get max birds irregarding of the hunt is not engaging.
I remember "the good days" of attempting to craft max and ancient potions mid quest then seeing "crafting failed" and seeing my time and materials dissapear. Truly times i do not wish to return to.
I hate the fact that my life bar is not as long as the screen is, that's it
I don't care if I had to hunt thousand of kelbi to get their horns to craft a potion, at least, my jauge was full
so I just don't look for Spiritbirds anymore, I have just 1 lvl1 jewel for random spiritbirds effects, and gather those that are on the way
As much as the tent and spirit bugs work well in Rise, I personally don't like them and want to see either one in the next MH (We probably will get the tent anyway), I'll 100% go back and take the 50-minute relaxing gathering quest to be good to hunt for a while, then having to collect birds every single quest. I started MH with 3U and the fact that you had to plan ahead to not run out of crucial items, micromanage and choose which item you need in a quest was a selling point for me.
Honestly, I don't really try to challenge myself or speedrun, but I usually don't take the birds because I usually don't need them, and then when I get one shot for it, I feel like I handicapped myself for not taking the birds, but the reality is just that I was too lazy to do it.
Back then, I take time to gather honey to get mega potions, and I get rewarded if I didn't have to use them in a quest, cause you can keep them for the next one, that's not the case with the birds.
Don't get me wrong, I don't try to say that you're wrong and it's a bad video, that's quite the contrary, those are just my preferences
Ik it is kinda a meme but I like how monster hunter is more monster hunting. I don't want a relaxing gathering. I could play minecraft for that. I'm not saying you're wrong, just sharing a new player. pov. That being said I do crave the difficulty of older games but having to farm and micromanage like that isn't making the game harder just a pain
Also i dont like the gathering in new games, especially catching bugs, its bad i liked old butterfly and firefly gathering spots
Capcom nerfed health.
Also players: playing the entire hunt at 1 hp because of heroics
Man, hearing you refer to the "dark days" and "ancient" times of MH hurt my soul a little. In tri /3U I loved going on gathering expeditions.
Farm the ore/bone/consumable mats > make the set to kill the monster > use that set to farm other monster, etc.
You hit the nail on the head though. Current gaming is all about the 10-15 minute game-loop and Rise balances that against the grind well. It's important to have that "down time" that chill gathering sessions used to have that balanced the game and added variety to sessions. it can't all be explosions and severed tails flying everywhere.
To me, it's definitely not the dark days. To people who complain about spiribirds...yeah it would be the end times if they had to play Tri.
spirit birds arent that bad, but the health part feels a bit less like a choice in a game like this where it might make the difference between getting oneshot or not.
i super enjoy the hunting helpers though and i wouldve loved to see these systems in a game like world, where the maps are more appealing to explore.
my biggest issue with the spirit bird system is that its completely counter intuistive to a lot of rises systems. they finally have the random join request feature that is awesome. they have proper warp points on the maps to get to monster faster but then i join a 8 min hunt and spend 2 mins on collecting bugs
I did the game through on switch and PC and can def say that on PC with the full rainbow bug at the start of a hunt the experience was just more enjoyable. thing is to i still would collect endemic life to use to just felt less forced now.
I'm also a long time player (veteran as they say (?))
There are days where I appreciate birds, I love how they look and it gives me time to think before battles, but there are also times where I just want to get over the hunt, especially when I randomly joined someone else's quest, they would kick me sometimes.
Im neutral about this and heck to the no... I don't want freedom 2 back, nope. It is nostalgic but I love how enjoyable MH is right now. Back then it felt like boot camp, sure you got better and going in latest MH games, you're already tuned in but I'm getting old I guess, I appreciate QOL features.
Remove the Spiribirds, remove the box access, return to the "dark" times. When I could gather when I wanted to gather and hunt when I wanted to hunt.
Disagree about the pouch space , from MHFU to Rise i always carry 2 max potions and 1 ancient potion along with anything i deemed necessary for the hunt , they are cheap to craft by end game and depend on your skill you won't even use 1 . Never feel being pressure by the lack of space and yes , this statement also applied to the Pre-world when the material also share the same pouch as item . Nowadays they get into a different pouch . But you know what will be always waste on hunt , TIME . This is even more relevant on High level afflicted invest when your timer got cut down and monster HP and damage got a boost , and of course it also a multi-hunt quest . Every time LS wannabe jump to Risen / High level afflict they got instantly cart to the point i have to set up a custom shout out to get them to gather bird ( if they are OK with it that is...) . Bird is a must because ours HP and Stamina got nerfed and you can't do anything about it except wasting time grabbing bird and licking Capcom shoe and praising them what a great game design it is .
All valid arguments but there is one aspect to the birds that is in contradiction to Rise design ethos and that's the quick pick up and play if those birds take 5min to get fully stacked that's 5min increase to the minimum viable time commitment. As a parent having 15min of free time to do a hunt is totally different to having 20min time window. With worlds system I could have dedicated time for example before bed when I had un interrupted time to gather the materials even if they were as "hard" to get as in 3rd or 4th gen. This is a design decision but it was not made to players convenience.
A little late to the party, but that gave me the benefit of commenting after the gone updates are done
I don't mind going around to look for spiribirds at the start of each hunt, as it align well with me clearing any gathering subquests I might have picked up, but it kinda baffled me why they didn't add new petalaces into the into the game like they did with Rise.
I would have loved a Fatalis-style petalace, one that quickly reaches its max values after only a couple spiribirds
Heck, it doesn't even have to have super high max values, I would love one that extends all values by only 50 units, but only takes like 2 or 3 of each spiribird to max out.
The thing that I never understood was when they always complain about the running around to get them where as now you can just have the spirit birds call skill and now these you can just meld a talisman with spirit birds call skill in it. Sure it wasnt like that in base rise and sunbreak and you had to make the garangolem armor just to have it, but now since chaotic gore magala came to sunbreak you and it's even better since you can meld a talisman with the spirit bird's call skill with the aurora melding not only that we have mp accelerates which speed up the melding pot.
Something good about the newer games also is: what you see is what you get, if i see a herb plant in world rise i get herbs, while in older games you had to stop and gather on a spot to maybe get what you want and you just press a button and are quickly done with it, it may seem like a small thing but its honestly my main annoyance when playing games like GU or freedom unite now even if i enjoy those games a lot still.
I've watched a couple of your videos, and godamn, every video you upload has hotter take than the other.
always pushing the boundaries!
I think the complaint comes from people who don't know that you always start the hunt at 150 HP (if you eat) but the petalace indicator for the HP & Stamina shows you could have more, thus creating the illusion that pre-hunt buffs were nerfed.
Removing those indicators would probably solve the complaints since people see it & think they didn't get fully buffed when spiritbirds are infact extra bonuses.
They can change their petalace to make those lines smaller. What's interesting is that you can't unequip your petalace completely! That would be a quick, easy fix for the problem!
@@iixxion Equipping another petalace doesn't work either. I always use the Demon Petalace because MAX DeePS & even then it can let you reach up 200? HP. As you mentioned, removing it entirely would solve this illusionary problem but the game doesn't let you. The devs really want you to get those spiritbirds intentionally or unintentionally.
Its more the fact that Sunbreak is balanced around having max spiribirds, while in base rise this wasn't the case; the spiribirds were entirely negligible outside apex emergencies. People are just whining that they need to actually put some effort into getting the health needed to deal with master rank damage, all the while blissfully ignoring all the mechanics the game added to make it easier for them.
Its actually pretty paradoxical to how the mh community usually deals with inconveniences. The old gen games had a laundry list of jank that made things exponentially more tedious and the fanbase treated every way to circumvent the jank as a useful life hack, like crouching to make the gathering animation slightly faster, or automatically climbing a surface with your weapon drawn by rolling into it etc.
I think no one needs spiritbirds if they're upgrading their Armor. I think its a reaction to seeing an empty bar.
I personally love the birds. I collect some spiritbirds because I decided not to upgrade my defense through Armor Spheres at all, because the game felt too easy. Ive beaten pretty much everything there is to beat, gone up to about 160 anomaly and I still havent felt the need to upgrade my armor. I May be a veteran but Im not a pro, I cart just like everyone.
@@an3582 I use end game armor at max defense & I still get 1-shot by some attacks so I collect spiritbirds to increase my odds of survival.
I absolutely LOVE the newer MH system of everything basically being integrated into the area/world/hunt. It feel denser, less monotonous, and frankly, I even love gathering now - so much so that I love starting over to force the requirement so I have a reason to go do it.
I think the problem is they'd rather just get the fight over with instead of taking 5 mins to buff up to NOT die in 2-3 hits... Given my general philosophy is "dead hunters deal no damage", I take my time to gather birds before a fight.
If you know the routes you’ll get max health(or close to max) in 1-2 minutes since we got wirebugs and palamute.
My friend never picks up birbz and I arrive at the monster 30 seconds later than him tops, with almost full health. I often even arrive at the same time since I’ve learned the routes and mastered the wirebugs.
People who complain about it taking too long can’t ever have played an older MH game.
@@HerEvilTwin As someone who came from the PSP era of MH, I can appreciate that the leeway for mistake in newer titles is a godsend...
I mean level 190+ Scorned Magnamalo can delete your health in one hit with no additional health birds given how hard his attacks hit.
@@HerEvilTwin As someone who's first MH experience was 4 Ultimate, I can appreciate the fact that the game didn't treat me like a moron, had no bullshit and was straight to the point with me.
You came to hunt? Go! Fight that lizard, make sure to come back alive!
Monster Hunter Rise basically slapped my 17 times across my dick and balls and said:
You came to hunt? You did? Well guess what: Fuck you, good sir. Now do us a favor and go collect these birds for a full health bar and stamina meter.
What's that you have a Max Potion or an Ancient Potion? Well, guess what? They're worthless! Now go collect birds, idiot.
Is it eventually going to be mandatory? Yes! Master Rank in its entirety and for one particular infamous quest, featuring Magnamalo.
You're telling me that... In order to get into have fun, I have to... and I shit you not:
In *EVERY. SINGLE. HUNT.*
In *EVERY. SINGLE. QUEST.*
Collect *10* of these fucking color-coded blobs so I can finally get to the actual fun part, so I don't take unreasonable damage that was made unreasonably high on purpose?
If I so much as complete, abandon or fail any of the objectives, I have to repeat the process again?
Man, that sounds like a great system! NO! It's a god-awful system.
cant blame them these fight are tedious garbage
@@_CrimsonBlade "😭" this you
Very good video. Back in the day, the real challenge was not carting. Simply because it cost so many resources to get back to the 150 Health and you lost all the food buffs. In fact, I used to stay at 100 when I carted until I had to down a Mega Potion. Simply because it was the most efficient way to use it. Since World we have 150 Health baseline and Capcom is using it. Getting more is still optional, but you don't want to be in the super moves even with 200.
Now in Rise, I tend to get Spiribirds to just be more comfortable. Takes a few minutes, but greatly benefits my experience. Unless I'm feeling a bit frisky and want to check out if I'm faster, actually, by not investing that time. Low as it is with Call and Chammy Blessing 1. Just straight to the Monster and into the action. Which has much of the same effect downing the Mega Potion only when I absolutely had to used to have. I play more carefully but also keep up the aggression and even get more aggressive as I get better at reading the Monster (and my stats increase in Sunbreak). If you really are in that area where getting the Birds is annoying to no hell, but you feel like you have to get them, do what I just described. That way you still get all the benefits for the cost of two 1-Slots and you'll learn how to behave when you're more "vulnerable" while also eventually being a god. It's this neat little skill called adaptability that is at the core of any Hunt in this series.
Ahh, the memories!
Don't forget taking detours to use the bed instead of potions if close to the camp and the monster changes area.
I'm glad monster hunter hitting a bigger stage but my god can't have even just one minute without the complaints
No because rise is a huge pile of shit.
>reply to a 2 month old comment
>negative statement
>Don't elaborate
>Leave
Bruh
The spiribirds fucking suck, though. I love Sunbreak, but those damn birds are a terrible idea.
thanks nexus mod has a fix for it^^
Hey Ix, I've posted in other videos how I took a hiatus from this game after base 1.0. I'm now grinding through anomalies. Up until this point you know what I really missed? Monster tracks. And now that we have investigations again I'm glad we do, but I still miss the tracks.
What the hell, I love the Spiribirds system now!
before rise people really missed the strategic and preparation gameplay instead of just going out with your weapon and killing the monster cause thats all you had to do, but now that we have it, they complain. It's good that they made very difficult monsters so that we could engage in that strategic and prep playstyle so we would last against the battle
Is it really preparation and strategic though? I mean there is none of that against amatsu...there are several quests in arena like areas where there is the rainbow spiribird which also negates the idea of it being preparation and strategy. There is also the argument to be had that fights are balanced around players always having access to spiribirds shifting thr balance to expecting players to always have spiribirds used to max their stat caps.
The problem is that it isn't a strategic option when the monsters have to be balanced for players who use spiribirds to have a fair challenge. It stops being strategic and becomes habitual. It is either that or get stomped flat by some horribly designed hurtbox. Low hanging fruit...anjy's grab attack has hit me even though I was about 5 yards away from the end of the animation.
So, I disagree that is is preparation and strategic, it is rather a necessity and thus something that takes up various habitual behaviors. Behaviors that every player should take up if they want to avoid being overtaxed and enjoy their time in hunts.
Apologies for the long winded response...
What's strategic about running through a fixed route?
Inventory management and Item choices are one thing but let's not kid ourselves and here and try to mask the spiribird mechanic being a dumb and poorly thought out concept by making it out to be a substitute to Limited inventory management.
One can be dealt with skill.
The other is a bloat concept that adds nothing to your gameplay experience but waste time.
And i'm sorry to say but this game is if nothing else, all about trashing on legacy skills
There is a way to get birbs and engage the monster faster. Spiribirb call lv1 will fill you with random birb every 1 minute, and chameleos blessing lv 1 deco can double the birb effect for a chance. And that only cost 1deco lv 1 slot. There is rampage deco too that attack you deal to monster have chance give you birb randomly.
People are STILL bitching about this? Oy. My Spiribird route in each map gets me TONS of gathering mats that inevitably become handy later on. And I can still get all that done (full spiribird buffs + a pouchfull of mats + monster ded) in about 15-20 minutes average. A bit longer if it's a multi-monster hunt. Doesn't reduce my enjoyment of the overall hunt in the least.
I dunno, I get a nice endorphin rush in small increments with every bird buff as much as I do landing a crit on a monster's weak point.
Yeah, it takes very little time to collect them. You could say the extra 100 HP makes the game too easy as well, but Rise is just extremely easy anyway.
You can't grasp you enjoying something doesn't mean everyone has to enjoy it as well? yep it's everyone else that's the problem
Good stuff as usual my guy Iixxion. In Sunbreak they made gathering the birds even EASIER too. with Spiribirds Call (a one slot deco) and a dango that has a chance to double every bird you pick up including ones that come to you from Spiribirds call. I don't mind the birds in Rise. I won't be mad if they don't return, but I wont be upset if they do either.
I don't think they will be in MH8. and I don't think we'll have 250 health in MH8, either!
I'd rather fight or pick up actual items than chase after magic birds every single quest
What if they just gave us items we could pick up that boosted our attack power? How awesome would that be?
might seeds
I will always maintain the only reason people complain is cause they can see the white bars all the time.
I love your videos, they make me analyse what I dislike and why... often I see that my mindset is wrong.
Yeah, I really wish there were a way to toggle it, or maybe have them temporarily appear whenever you collect spiribirds for your health and stamina, it's quite the clutter and puts in me that urge to collect one or two more birds to just be topped off....
@@MaidenofMiracle Yeah it really should have been like past games stamina bars. Where you collect one and you see the max limit glow for a second or two and then it disappears.
Main reason why I hate them tbh.
I also like having stuff stored for when I want to use it.
This is just either farm 3 minutes every hunt or not at all
(Spirit bird's call is a symptom of how terrible in design these birds are tbh)
@@SweatiestDegree Its a symptom of people complaining about how bad they "feel" the mechanic is.
I think there is another issue with Rise anyway that causes this and unfortunately the devs might not realise because all the complaints dont address the real issue.
@@SweatiestDegree I would enjoy them more if they weren't so key to my consistent survival in farming anomaly investigations, running the same route on the same map over and over and over just for this unending grind really puts a damper on the casual choice when not using them risks me wasting 20-30 minutes on a single failed investigation...
I just wish they were on the map. So you didn't have to Google them
Your palamute can mark them on the map you just have to use the action bar to select sniff out and it marks them out for you
@@Fencer_Nowa I'll have to try that, thanks
2:11 collective ass
as opposed to collective soul
I think the biggest miscomseption I also see with the birds is that 'We don't get our max health anymore, we HAVE to go find the birds.' Which just...isn't true? I've been playing Sunbreak and Gen U Back to back lately and I've noticed that in Gen U's canteen you can't surpass 50 in both Health and Stamina, granted you eat the right food. In Rise, you get 50 outright from the GET GO and beyond. And then it hit me; The birds aren't the max, they're BEYOND the max. And even if someone says 'Oh, anomaly quests with tighter timers don't give me the time to go get buffs.' If you're not doing enough damage. A. Make a better set or change your strategy. And B. Spiribird's Call is a decoration that exists now and gives you a random bird buff every like, I think it's 20 seconds until you've hit your max in every stat. I've ended hunts fully maxed before because of it.
TL;DR, Spiribirds aren't the max, and you've always gotten and still do get max from the canteen. The Birds are extra, and getting them is easy, and even easier now in Sunbreak thanks to Spiribird's Call being a decoration now.
Awesome vid by the way.
Thank you! And yeah, you're absolutely right. Spiribirds are well above and beyond max!
??
beyond the max doesn't exist
Max health possible is still Max health possible
What you used to get with an ancient/max potion has been divided into the canteen and spiribird.
You are not at max health if you haven't taken spiribirds.
Mh games don't have similar values and numericals either. So i don't know why you would think the numbers in one game would have any relevance with the other.
Sunbreak has attack power in the hundreds with top ones barely breaking the 350 mark while we have multiple 1000+ weapon damage in Iceborne easy
That's why they had vitality jewels for max health in the older games instead of this useless bloat mechanic
And Cry me a river, who gives a rat's ass about green spiribirds anyway. MH has always been about 'Safety behind damage'. The more dps you put out, the more flinches, stuns and predictable animations you get that limits the monster's time of attacking you. Safety behind damage.
I couldn't care less about limiting health behind spiribird but why the fuck would you hide my dps as red spiribirds beyond a forced mechanic that involves braindead trudging through premeditated routes?
And before you go try defending the thing, recall the very concept of anomaly monsters. They are a dps check fight at it's very core not to mention anomaly monsters had dumptruck loads of Hp and the flinch and stun gauges were also pumped up proportionally so no, even with the best possible set sans any rng qurio aid(which is another cancer btw), you needed that buff to effectively be safe.
You say, well if you dislike it then don't collect them.
I would. yeah but unfortunately, they tied it around balance. Which is why anomalies were dps checks with damage sponge levels of hp on release. And also why they were overcompensating it with Insane new sets and equipment skills to the point lv300 anomaly is a fucking joke and done in under 5 mins.
This whole game has been nothing but one bad decision after another, even the seemingly good decisions ware nothing but band aids on a burning ship.
@@Uzumaki.9 You talk alot but barely make sense...
Key thing here is the game is 100% doable with 150HP. Picking green spiribirds are just a bonus to make the hunt easier to ease up newer players... If you need them to finish a hunt then you are the target demographic for the feature... Simple.
I don't understand how adding QoL and optional at that is a bad decision in anyway...
@@vivid8979Not gonna waste time with someone that either doesn't bother to read before replying or has comprehension issues.
I couldn't care less about the health. It's the spiribird mechanic that's trash for hiding dps behind what is essentially nothing else but a time waster. The health granted by vitality gems being hidden away behind useless time investment is just a bonus on the shit sandwich they were already serving. and before you bitch about the dps being only 20 attack you should first realize that anomaly monsters were nothing but hp sponges and dps checks on release.
I'd already mentioned these things previously but it's obvious you didn't understand anything cuz you are not even talking about the same thing
and fyi, vitality gems gave you the health bonus that spiribirds do now. Wasting time running around for spiribirds instead of being able to slot in vitality jewel instantly at no time cost is what qualifies for a QoL change now, eh?
already toldya guys, spiribird gem + birdcaller dango 4 is the way to go if you don't want to collect usually. no one listens to the guy with creepling anxiety'
As a host I find it peaceful running through my routes collecting birds before everyone else shows up. It's not like you have to go out of your way to pick them up, they're literally everywhere.
I do think it'd be cool if every map had one of those special birds that maxes you out somewhere out of the way and hard to get to. Maybe make them spawn in random locations or something. You'd need to do some crazy parkour to get it. Would add an extra little something to each mission I think.
For me those pickups did lessen my map knowledge to a minimal amount, i dont need these birds because intrepid heart and other shields exists, so as result i barly know maps in rise.
Also i miss my Farm in Pokke village i liked those cats so funny to see them run in with big barrel bombs on their hand and getting flung out again xD
i dunno, sounds like a bunch of mental gymnastics just trying to prove that spiribirds were a good addition to the game. Feels like a waste of time every hunt, world did it better, and it should have never changed
Spiribirds is a good example of loss aversion. Being able to reach 250 health by collecting birds doesn't seem to pay off the fact that you start at 150. This is also known as being spoiled or underappreciation.
"back in my day....etc" but it's literally true! Spiribirds are a huuuge bonus that we only dreamed of ten years ago. Even five years ago! Even three years ago!
@@iixxion Let's not forget you can dramatically speed up your bird gathering even further using the Spiribird's Call and Chameleos Blessing armor skills, which can also be obtained via 1-slot decorations, and Qurios Crafting now allows us to get extra deco slottage without stat loss, so there's literally no excuse for even needing to spend up to 3 minutes gathering them. At this point, complaining about the birds is the epitome of entitlement.
or you can call it a poorly designed system as well I mean why ignore people's complaints and just say they're spoiled and don't know any better... yikes
@@SweatiestDegree You can call it whatever you want! Most of us love the system, and understand that it's well-designed within the scope and tradition of the game series.
@@SweatiestDegree I'm literally addressing the problem. Loss aversion. They didn't take that into consideration. The system on birds and petalace isn't bad, but like the some other comments mentions, if players didn't constantly see the white part, no one would complain, except that some players would point that they could have 200hp from start easy back in World/Iceborne. That's where "being spoiled" is a term that makes a lot of sense to use. Not even in a degrading or disrespectful manner, is just how you call when we get too much used to something in a bad way. When we get bad accustomed to something.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings. yaykes
I like the endemic life along Rise and Sunbreak, but for some reason Life and Stamina spiribirds hit different, attack defense hunting helpers and all the other things feel right, and arena missions spiribirds feel great, but i dont think spiribirds act well as a REPLACEMENT of max health and stamina skills. (even worse when entering high level investigations)
Nutrients and max potions could be farmed and bought with points(mhfu forward), you went couple egg hunts/arena quests, and thats all, hard quests settled with max hp till the next rank. now you have to stop the quest you doing to get them again and again, interrupting the gameplay flow every single hard quest, not just once in a while.
Hp+Stamina skills are an optional slot in world/iceborne that works with the food to give you 200hp and both the food and the skills are a bonus, not base-line. Now you have a bonus you need to stop playing mh go jump around couple minutes every hunt to fill.
And despite that, i kinda like spiribirds as a concept, an optional bonus, but Hp ones needed a bit of a rethinking in my opinion.
Dude even packing Spiribird's Call can mitigate these complaints from these players. They can pick up NO BIRDS and still be rewarded the longer the hunt goes. Yeah it's random but passively getting them is such a godsend and it's A ONE SLOT DECO. I feel like the devs made getting spiribirds way easier with this and people kind of just overlooked it
Say this again because the high dps players or folks who think you are new because you gather spiribirds before you hunt didn't hear you.
Ditto for Bird Caller dango skill, that alone is all you really need.
tbh this "problem" is something that capcom has fabricated with their almost obsessive concentration on preparation.
the gamers got used to almost obsessively optimizing their inventory,gear and buffs pre hunt, to then have everything ready from the moment the quest starts.
by putting the buffs in the same quest as the monster, capcom has completely disrupted the players flow of thought with an *extra step* that doesnt exist. you dont have extra work to do, youre still doing a preparing gathering run, its just that you dont have to pass 2 additional loading screens for it
Just started playing Rise and new to Bow, love your videos and I really appreciated this one. Being a new player I enjoy gathering and have fun collecting the song birds and fish buffs before I engage the monsters. Do you think you might do a new bow guide for beginners if one is needed for any changes that have been made since your last? I am also trying to see what early game sets I want t focus on, I really just started the game last night haha. Thanks for the videos !
nice! I have a video for base game armor pieces that I used for bow. check that one out too! My channel started as a bow channel, so I have dozens of videos covering so many bow topics. I do plan to make a beginner's guide like my other three, but for now, you can get most of what you need from my playlist I think it's called best bow videos!
@@iixxion Awesome thanks! If you're not a bow channel anymore what are you now? haha
@@Squeebop Still a bow channel at heart; but i wanted to get these tutorials out for all the new players coming in! the game has changed so much and the popular tutorials are out of date, plus they kinda suck...long term, i'm a MH channel. that will never change! MH8, i'll probably switch weapons...
I honestly love spirtbrids I feel like it gives u a nice feeling of getting stronger throughout the quest and it's fun imo to run around before the quest getting spirtbrids mining bug catching etc.
Nah id like to go back to no storage to camp and old style. Eat and bring 2 max potions and an ancient potion you cart the max amount with assurance you still have full health with 2 item slots
I'm already at the point where I can kill the monster with in 8 minutes, but that is on the S+ days where I channel the ten percent godly powers of my SNS, but I'm not a god the rest of the time. I enjoy gathering and preparing ahead, the crafting system and gathering make it easier for me to have an extra surplus of mega potions and honey.
It is my choice to hunt like that
So long as you're choosing to hunt like that when solo, that's fine. The issue becomes when you hunt like that in multiplayer with randoms and you carting screws them out of rewards or risks failing the hunt at their expense. Don't be that guy, be courteous when you're joining someone else's hunt or putting up a join request and asking for other peoples' assistance.
While I don't think a return to the old ways would make veterans quit, that's probably true for new players. Spirit Birds and endemic life, as well as camp item replenishment are all optional, as you say, so people shouldn't complain. Just ignore festures one doesn't like, it's what I do.
I think that a lot of this debate stems from the FEELING that spiritbirds are a necessary mechanic that you must do every hunt no matter what. When in practice, it isn't. Anyone with the confidence and skill behind they're weapon of choice can go out and take down any monster without the assistance of the spiritbirds. The only place in the game where this feeling is strongly enforced is at the upper end of the anomaly investigations. Can't really prove this without anyone from the anti-spiritbird camp giving their opinion, but I think this is where a link between the two sides of the debate can be found.
On one side we have something along the lines of, "I don't see what the big deal is. It only takes a few minutes to get the birds and then you're back at it. What's the problem?"
Followed by the very simple answer of, "I just like them as a mechanic. I hate being shoehorned into collecting them. I want to spend my time hunting not collecting."
And on BOTH sides, albeit pretty rare, there are those who look down on and mock whichever side they happen to oppose.
All this stems from a collective refusal to simply shake hands, let people play how they want to play, and form and keep their own opinion as to what they do and don't like about the game. Debates like this start because someone believes that their opinion is better than someone else's and that they should play the game similarly to them.
Personally, I like the spiritbirds. I enjoy the calm before the storm. Gives me time to plan and strategize. But I understand and accept that not everyone likes to do things my way. And honestly, it's better that way.
The thing that really frustrates me about birds is that it presents a balancing conundrum for the developers. If you balance monsters' damage output on the assumption that people will collect spiribirds then you begin to create one-shot scenarios for people who don't, like in super high end anomalies or apex emergencies in base game, and then you legitimately are trying to force people to collect them. Alternatively, if you balance around hunters who don't collect spiribirds, then it undermines any attempt the developers make at creating challenge since bird farming essentially becomes an easy mode. Not to mention that for people who don't typically farm birds, when the devs try to significantly strengthen the monsters, the difficulty then feels extremely artificial since they just have to spend several minutes farming birds only to have the same effective bulk they already had before. The only quests that don't have this problem are the ones that occur in arena maps that give you a rainbow bird immediately, and imo those are the most fun and well-balanced in the game.
I have no hate for people who like spiritbirds, I also think that if I were to collect spirit birds every time I go out it would be not only time consuming but not fun, running the same 3 minute route every 10 minutes isn't fun for me.
Now what I think is there should be more options not fewer, if capcom wants you to be able to "farm" in short bursts in every hunt good... ok...
but let me farm as well and decide to carry items that will just let me hunt.
I was playing world on steam deck and one of the things I did on the train to work was farming some guiding lands for materials to then use on the Steamworks for items.
this allowed me to be chill and get ready for when I got home at night and did some hunting.
so let me gather birds to make some juice and let ME choose when to use that juice for the extra stats.
I mean spiritbirds call is a bandaid, if they were so fun and engaging to collect that you wouldn't mind 20% of every hunt you're on just being collecting birds this deco wouldn't exist
at least with ancient potions I CHOSE when to farm and I CHOSE when to use them, I didn't have to constantly farm 3 minutes every hunt
@@Huuuuuuue it's a crap system and shouldn't be the only option to get the full buffs, a spirit bird potion you could farm up would clear all this up.
or not have them at all and just use Demon drugs etc if you want more humpf!
but if you don't like spirit birds you're just called spoiled so idk xD
@@Huuuuuuue I could understand that point of view. It presents the scenario where the devs then have to pick a side and leave the other behind. The only question then would be whether or not the developers did indeed balance around the birds existence. As a proponent of birds, I think that being able to have a rainbow bird in maps would be cool. Not sure how to best implement that idea though.
It's pretty clear that they're balancing around 150 health. If you think the monsters are hard with 150 health, welcome to Monster Hunter! Every game in the series has been THAT hard. 250 health is awesome, and I get it nearly every time in endgame, and that's why this game is a lot easier now than ever before. If you want to know the upper limit of difficulty that the devs intended for the game, then you play with 150 health.
But, but, but... what about... hang on...
Honestly I never got the spirit bird complaints, it take like 3-4 minutes to gather the birds without a palimute (the palicos give too much utility), and along the way you’ll get a lot of different useful endemic life and will probably be going in the direction of the monster
Most of my spiribird routes don't use the palamute at all! and i get everything I want in about a minute (sometimes less).
@@iixxion I definitely could do it faster, but I do love the crutch of all stats max boosted
I’d pay five dollars a month for a Prism Bird at the beginning of each hunt.
Don't say that too loudly, Capcom might hear you and actually do this...
The only thing that isn’t fine is that it’s literally the only way to reach max health and that’s actually insane
I never understood why people complained about the birds. I thought it was a nice little optional bonus. But then, I tend to forget that most people complaining about anything in MH, are coming from World as their first title. I have to say, back in 3U, and somewhat in 4U even, you might not even have enough room in your pockets to carve! Haha, the good old days... And remember the "gather 20 choice mushroom" quests, etc, and you'd have to start throwing stuff away everytime you gathered a new item? But gathering quests in Gen were much better with the Prowler class. Side note, anyone think the Prowler class should make a comeback?
The bigger issue with spiritbirds is that it contradicts the get in and fight mentality of sunbreak. It isn't logical to compare it to games before World, as World introduced a much bigger mainstream audience than the old games ever had. The QoL changes in World are why it seems like it's taking a step back. You wouldn't compare a game to a version 2 or 3 back, you would compare it to the one just before.
Also, going from 100 health to 250 is not an insignificant amount. The spiritbirds were almost meant to be an excuse for you to explore the map with your improved mobility and speed.
I don't think spiritbirds are game breakingly horrible, but if you're used to hunting with any sort of efficiency, they do become tedious very quickly.
They seem to be one of those features that started off with Rise and they just kind of let it become forgotten, just like the Rampage. If they wanted to continue the spiritbird design and make them meaningful, they would've added MR versions of Petalaces, but both Petalaces and Rampage were obvious that they were not good or liked, so they didn't carry that gameplay forward.
Also, if they made more powerful versions of Petalaces, it would put even more emphasis on the birds and probably cause more frustration.
Again, they are not insignificant buffs. That's why they give you a max bird on arena quests. That's why people mod their game to put a max bird at every spawn. Any time you put a game mechanic that becomes tedious to the player, they will mod the game to "fix" it, whether it be spiritbirds, talismen, or decos in world etc.
I usually tend to forget to use them after gathering all those endemic life lol totally focused to doing hits 😅
Just because 20 years ago Capcom decided to do it some way to artificially inflate the game time experience for their console games, doesn't mean that the current interaction is good, World has done it right for many features of the game, and they should have become baseline for future expectations.
There is absolutely no justification to artificially put in hurdles just so you can survive end game monster's "pseudo-one-shot" mechanics, specially on multiplayer, so much so that people opt to play almost exclusively on the arena maps for the 200+ anomalies grind whenever it is possible.
Collecting tracks and slime is worse than collecting spiribirds.
@@iixxion You're definitely right about that, specially when they keep giving you tracks after you maxed them out for no reason, that's a point to improve upon
I play this game much more than my friends do, but every time I play with them and I go around and pick up Spiribirds... They question me about why I do it, saying it's a "waste of time". But to me, being on the grind for Anomaly level 300, getting some additional health, defense, stamina and attack stats feels like second nature now. I spend a minute or three walking to the monster instead of fast traveling to it, and I get to live a hit I otherwise wouldn't have. It's only beneficial to me, at the end of the day, and I don't feel like my hunts take significantly longer by picking some birds up.
I feel like people throw shade at the Spiribirds not because they are a "bad" mechanic, but because they haven't yet had a "real" reason to go out of their way and gain these bonus stats.
Eh. I still enjoy finding a quick spirit bird route to the monster
They should meet us halfway. Ancient potions could give 25 HP/STAM and birds the other 25. Both camps “happy”. Instant buff like world but also some added bonus while you out on the hunt. I personally hate the system but that’s just me.
Nope. I’m sorry, but there’s no way you can convince me Spiribirds are a good mechanic. They’re completely *unnecessary.*
Granted, sunbreak isnt out for ps5 yet, so idk if this is already the case, but what they COULD do is make it so the Spiribirds always respawn in random locations for each hunt and/or have there always be one MAX Spiribird in each locale that’s hard to find. That would at least do away with the monotony of finding a path that works for you and doing it every single frickin time before you fight. But the way it is now? It’s just tedious and feels very “padding-for-game-time”… which would be THE dumbest thing for a MH game, but given the base game’s initial release, kinda sorta makes sense.
But even that aside, I could fix the whole ancient potion debaccle easily: Make it so ancient potion is a permanent effect for each hunt, and that you can only eat 1 per hunt throughout the whole quest. It fixes everything;
-Adds a bit more lore-y flare to the whole “ancient” thing, very powerful but a bit unstable, which is why it’s only semi-permanent
-you only can hold 1 anyway, so while max’s still function the same, ancient are a once-per-quest thing, freeing up a pouch space anyway
-keep it being something you cant make a trillion of anytime soon, so an infrequent but steady supply, enough for at least your major hunts
-still encourages travel and scavenging to find the rare ingredients to make it
Boom, done. That’s just off the top of my head. So it can’t be abused, and you dont have to waste 5 min. every single quest chasing around static hummingbirds that just sit there and wait for literally only you to collect them (seriously, what the actual f*ck is up with that???).
So in all, just IN MY OPINION, spiribirds are dumb. I understand its a creative design choice by the devs who wanna try something new. But not every idea is a good idea, and as just from a player perspective, I know for a fact that there’s no way this was absolutely the BEST design/gameplay choice they could’ve gone with. Not knockin’ anyone who enjoys it, but people who think it’s stupid I think have an equally arguable case as to why.
what about the monotony of running to the monster the exact same way every time? (or one of only three ways) knowing exactly where it is every time? the design choice they made was to make the game faster and easier, which spiribirds do for the majority of players, without making this a pure boss-rush type game. if we're randomizing things, then let's bring back the paintballs and get rid of the cohoot.
if we still have access to our box, then we need to make ancient potions harder to craft. otherwise, you may as well just boost max health automatically...which creates a new baseline....at which point people will be whining that they took away our health bonuses...
how about this: a fixed number of birds, in semi-random locations, and only one player can get each one.......
Oh, I definitely agree; doing away with paintballs, psychoserum, and even the blimp spotter guy was a bad choice all around, imo. Even the scoutflies mechanic at least still left plenty of tracking aspect of, ya know, being a HUNTER…?
I understand the whole ‘broader appeal/wider audience/tune it for the casuals’ which are the majority thing; that was inevitable. But i think sacrificing a bit of it’s identity of the niche following it built up is quite the shame.
Honestly, I’d be fine with the meals themselves being the end all be all of max health & stamina. Having us hunt and gather rare ingredients to eventually make super potent meals would be perfect.
As for the birds, i could get behind that. Or at the very least, every 100 birds you gather actually buffs that aspect of that particular stat PERMANENTLY permanently.
There’s definitely compromises and mediums we could come to.
It's a choose your difficulty mechanic. And there's nothing people hate nowadays more than choosing and being held responsible for their choices.
Capcope
My Pee brain just tells me one thing BIRB!
Pee brain or Pea brain???
@@iixxion Hmmmm P e e
Meh, I just preferred that inventory management aspects of previous game, and the whole ritual of chugging buffs like you're dying of thirst before every hunt.
But you know how I fix the issue? I don't use the tent, and I don't pick up birds.
my only issue with monster hunter nowadays is that since hunters get stronger with each installment, capcom decided that the only way for monsters to catch up is by spamming meteors everywhere. It gets increasingly ridiculous with every game I swear😂I wish the monsters were a tad more grounded in their fights while still being difficult to play.
Naw people who say they like the spiribird system are mid. I like the old system of popping an ancient and fighting the monster. Going the same route for spiribirds after 1000+ hunts is not fun.
I don't think you really know what it was like back in the day.
@@iixxion been playing since World I know what I'm talking about.
@@styx87 lol indeed you do! my mistake!
Yup, but hey if you haven't played since MH1 you don't know the struggles apparently...
I also think it's funny defending a poorly designed system with well back in my day sunny jim we had to walk 12 miles to the well to get water and play pokemon red with a lamp on.
ok gramps (i'm old aswell so idk what I'm talking about) but birds are a crap system still :)
@@SweatiestDegree The point is, you want something that isn't Monster Hunter. That's OK. But you're not going to find "not-mh" by playing MH.
Spiribirds force you to run routes before engaging. It's a catch-up mechanic for undergeared hunters imo.
You can say that up until high-level Anomaly Rank hunts where the level 120+ Afflicted Scorned Magnemalo will one-shot you without the added health or defense. Do whatever you like if you are soloing those endgame hunts, but the minute you step into online multiplayer, if you're the guy carting repeatedly because you rush to the monster and don't collect the health and defense buffs, or run out of stamina and can't dodge said one-shot attack, or aren't pulling your weight to destroy the red target areas fast enough, people will remember your character name and will start kicking you every time you show up to a hunt.
@@davekaye5483 I'm at the point where my build can't get any stronger. Trust me when I say spiribirds are optional.
If I cart, it's cause I'm playing greedily, not because I'm under 250hp.
@@macfallan that's always the case IMO, I'm only at lvl 130 atm and if I cart in one shot (gunner) I messed up and that's it also haven't been one shot that often playing melee builds unless I get greedy and recover at a stupid time.
Hell if you really want to be safe you can just eat for moxie, birds add nothing to this game.
They just take away one's choice to COME prepared instead you have to run around like an idiot every hunt collecting birds if you want the max stats.
Dang make me feels old at mention of MH 1, 2 and tri 😅 haven’t played any since and thinking of getting rise… 😅😅😅
People complaining health problems?
man, lets see, yes its a vital thing to take note
but soon you realise, endgame monsters can kill you in one hit, or hit hard to drain most of health bar
its a sorta lesson that say, you aren't invincible, take it or dodge the hit and you can feel satisfied that you dodged a bitchslap from enemy
IMO the spiritbird system is good but it shouldn't take away all the bonuses each quest. Repetitiveness becomes boring. Personally I would take away a percentage of the bonuses on carting or quest completion, so subsequent quests would require only a fraction of the spirit bird gathering and there's more motivation to farm spirit birds since they'd become a semi-persistent bonus.
This was a great take!
It’s not even 5 minutes to be honest. Especially if you have 1 Spirit Bird Caller deco. (Optional, LV3 or Lv4 Spiritbird Dango.) Don’t understand these complaints on an *optional* mechanic. Which, again, if you want the buffs, look into just one deco.
it's under a minute for me.
Like you asked do we need old ancient potion mechanism over spirit bird?
YES, YES MF yes we need that back this bs is a curse i hope they dont bring spirit bird back in wilds, hate the whole concept its bad and it is annoying and makes me angry
overall i enjoy the idea of spiribirds as a concept. However i do wish that HP was not one that was included. I think that the Attack, Stamina and especially the Defense Birds should have been more impactful. Then the game doesnt need to be balanced around assuming all players have an additional 100 HP and players who wanted to have more damage or defense could still collect birds and truly feel rewarded for it. Meanwhile those who didnt enjoy the bird mechanic can ignore it and not feel as though they are being severely punished.
They have just been giving us the illusion of having "fun" there are so many things in the game don't need to be here
2 mins per quest for perma buffing + 7-15 mins of fight with a monster seems pretty good to me. That or faming materials for a max potion which can be demoralizing because u have to farm farm for 50mins or so for maybe 4-7 max potions at best. Capcom also gave us the option to re-eat a meal for a better option. I'm just looking forward for the next MH game.
In world you'd get a looooot more than 5 per 50m
I mean I don't like that you can restock items from the tent and I don't like spiritbirds
Monster Hunter evolved to something different that what it was before, dont get me wrong, i love monster hunter rise, but to me, an OG player that his first MH game was MH Freedom 2 on the psp, there was a thing from spending and planing your hunt, like... really, if you didnt prepared at all, you suffered the consequenses, it WAS a HUNTING game, you vs the monster. Indeed i still play some on emulators on my mobile. Today "Gathering" feels something like a chore... but only that, not really a substance, just a mere buff, before you really had to thought throughly your plan, think ahead what would you do to hunt the monster, was really challenging and i loved it. I know its niche gaming... but i really missed that feeling but with better enviroments and what not. i like and I enjoy MHRise, i mean, a lot, but I get the feeling of people complaining MHrise being more... casual? I dunno how to explain it, but the hardcore part and the most dificult was indeed what you call "painful" its the steep learning curve that has, but once you are on the other side... uff... each hunt feels a lot rewarding, much more than today. I felt proud of the sets i did to pass the game.
i love your videos, just in this case, i dont share the view, but its good the changes made people discovered the franchaise and more easy to play
Edit; grammar
I personally think the spirit are amazing because the majority of the quest have 50min time. Like you so much free to to go fishing, collecting spirit birds, cook well done steak and go mining. And you still got a lot of time left.
also wet some are takeing in to kinsitorayins is that the bons healt and samitna ther then them all redey being ther to some point the bons haelt and satmna barsis are part do to both the dongos and petalacesis you put on befor even leveing for a hunt so that to is y wen starting a quest in rsie or sunbrake ther are gery partsis to both the haelt and satmna barsis its not that ther missing ther ther but if you wet thos bonsis you hav to go get thos spirt birdsis to ther wise wet you even see in this video with the green and yellow barsis thos partsis that are wite or grey are the bons haelt and satmna do to you so if you go runing right to the monster both the green and yellow barsis will look how thay do even won cuz you may not be trying to rush the hunt but thas wet your doing to your self be not go after them its not that you hav not geting redey as you hav not even begun the hunt yet so by got yello spirtbirds you get more satmna if you get more green spirtbirds you get more haelt and along the way thers thing to help you keep going hreb for poinsis antadot fo anteypoins huskbersy for amo needillbersis for picersis amo yellow musroomsis for things to paralziey dug fo exozt aom and cotin fier herb for fier amo and alll this can be found wilde you go abuot geting spirtbirdsis and all thos things are usis in alcme and if you mark them as a musth make item wen you go to grab them thay will trund into thos alcme itmes you wood make so wilde hunting you do not hav to make them as offend you stell can make them on quest if you like but you hav to do so your self the game dos not do all fo every thing for you you hav to do some your self to juts like if you wet to make armor you hav to ther kill the monster or capsher it in a tarp like a pitfall or surktarp tho ther are ther ways fo tarping to hav a nices day
Rise is actually very nice already compared to mh 2g days
Rise fan boy spiri birds suck and takes even more time finding them
World is the best mh made
So many spiritbirds haters and health being nerfed but every """smart hunter""" it's running the same Dereliction builds with the same armor pieces with the same switch sets
Let the people enjoy the game, and maybe you can enjoy it too
Bruh, need more hp ngl, i dont mind gathering birdies, gimme more health
I started with world before working my way back to 4u. So far, I've found the success of the hunt more satisfying on the older games. I end up just mindlessly hunting in the new games...
To me that is removing something crucial. The emphasis on streamlining games reminds me of the newer movies being put out. Pretty to watch but only really enjoyable if you don't want to think too hard. Some times I do want that restriction and tedium since it adds to my enjoyment. So for me, this hasn't been an "added more" but rather hollowed out the experience. On the surface is more but underneath is less.
The shortest way I can state this is: it isn't that these features aren't adding, it is that what they add seems like a slippery slope to a bloated, turn your minds off kind of play. I find that to be what perturbs me the most about this.
No I'd much rather the game be harder and more limited. Spiribirds are horribly annoying. Or I'd rather a different better system. I don't mind eating I wouldn't mind tents not being so op I wouldn't mind having to figure in armor skills if I needed them. There's a lot I hate about the way rise feels and spiribirds are a big center piece reminding me of that every hunt. You call the old system archaic but I don't like having to consider that a negative. I feel like I needed spiribirds to play the game safely. It took me longer than 60 seconds to get all the birds to max to feel like the fight could be the best it could be for me. It doesn't feel like an option for casual newer players. It feels like coming out of world I just struggle annoyingly to get to a more playable state and it broke what I felt like was a good idea of a gameplay loop. I wanted world to be not so easy with it and to be able to enjoy gathering or farming more. I hope wilds goes more into survival and gathering and less hand outs and easy cheesy tent stuff. I think you should have at most an extra box you take with you of some extra mats but not the whole thing or a whole lot for each stack either.
I understand your point of older games having health being less accessible, but its not a good reason going forward to have a bad one. It sucks having to waste time every quest to run around and pick them up. It was fun the first few times, but its monster hunter - not rinse and repeat bird collector. If anything they should do the spirit birds, but once per new area, and now just be blessed with whatever stats you picked up like a permanent buff for that zone. Have less birds, more scattered - make it a scavenger hunt, but just once. (or once per rank?) But l appreciate the attempt on a new system and way to buff, but this just feels like its wasting my time and not doing the 'fun' stuff i want to do. Also given how "grindy" this game is, the constant bird collecting issue is exacerbated.
How long does it take you to collect the birds?
@@iixxion Probably 2-3 mins, i did just discover that you can attack the bushes to find randos...but again its 2-3 mins x 10 hunts or more thats 20-30 minutes of not actually hunting and playing a parkour sim.
I just bought Rise. I'm only on four star quests and I already hate Spiribirds and how much of my time they waste. 8-10 minutes running around collecting them only to spend five minutes to kill the monster. Might be forgivable if the devs weren't spiteful bastards about making the birds the ONLY way to get your health up. No Vitality skill, no Nutrients, max and ancient potion don't max your health. They knew this system sucked.
the mechanic would work better on a game like world, rise is more about going to the monster and fight them, more frenetic, thats the gameplay idea
its a okay idea in the wrong game
I am playing through rise almlst to sunbreak and haven't used the spiribirds for real yet are they that good?
they are if you need/want them.
no lie this is my only real gripe with the game.
People HATE "getting with the program"...or was it called" adapting to survive". Like I'm going to walk up on Afflicted Shagaru at BASE health so it could 1 shot me(there is NO RESISTANCE for frenzy explosions. No deco to reduce damage from it.)!?! Rather use GL with wirebug whisper lv3,artillery lv3,quick sheath lv3,load shells lv2,guard lv5,guard up lv3,speed eating lv3 to deal with such after adding spiribird call lv1to setup.
git gud 😂
@@NeuraliXYou are NOT better than me. YOU KNOW it. Stop trying my patience...I'm BATMAN™. It's called "prep time". GET USED TO IT. Don't care about SPEEDRUNNING right now. I KNOW you reported. I'm NOT GOING ANYWHERE. How I hunt is NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS. It's not for everyone...
Still better than gathering tracks in world
Interesting take but ultimately incorrect. Too simple of a comparison that doesn't compare the right things in the first place.
To get max HP in older games, you either slotted in Health gems which gave perma boost or you eat meal that gives temporary.
In World, they stacked and you got 200.
But it was in true essence the same, until Rise.
See, what you are forgetting to remind people is that these things are balanced. Same as how Monster HP and attack values are proportionally adjusted as per Gear Values/Skills,
Health and Stamina are adjusted as per Monster attacks all the same.
(No two MH games have similar Gear values. Some stay in the triple digits while others go upto into the thousands. In the same vein, value calculation is also wildly different depending on the game you pick)
However, the resulting gameplay is always the same. 99% of attacks from endgame monsters will OHKO IF YOU DON"T HAVE THE MAX HEALTH POSSIBLE in the game. No matter which MH title it is.
HOWEVER, the difference in Rise is that they make you waste time and fill your play time with banal traversing to get it.
Older game: Perma Max HP = Decos/Armor Skills. CAN BE DONE INSTANTLY AND PERMANENTLY.
MHW/IB: Perma Max HP = Decos/Armor Skills + Unlimited Meals/Max/Anc.Pots. CAN BE DONE INSTANTLY AND PERMANENTLY.
Now look at this,
MHR/SB: Perma Max HP = Food + Spiribird. Health decos/armor skills dont exist. NEEDS 30 SEC to 1 MIN PER **EVERY QUEST**
Also gameplay is same in regards to tanking hits in the game. Endgame monsters will OHKO if you are not at max possible health in both games. BUT RISE LOCKS YOUR MAX HP BEHIND POINTLESS TRAVELLING.
AND THAT'S NOT EVEN THE WORST OF IT.
See MH meta (not speedrunning, those guys are a different sort of animal) has always been about doing as much dps as possible, as REASONABLY as possible(speedrunning doesn't have reason, only dps). Because more dps means the monster flinches quicker, knocks down quicker and ultimately dies quicker, limiting the opportunities of you falling prey to a OHKO or getting hit and having to waste time, spending it to heal back up.
Therefore Max Attack + some comfort skills as per skill level has always been the way to go. And that has always been achievable at a hat's drop for every quest. All it would take was some moving around decos, armor skills and the obligatory food buff every mission.
BUT THIS FUCKING SPIRIBIRD MECHANIC EVEN LOCKS YOU OUT OF MAX POSSIBLE DAMAGE ALONGSIDE THE HP FOR NO GOOD REASON.
And the worst part is that Attack damage gains are not a straight gain but a compounding one. The more dps you have, the faster you flinch/down a monster. The more and faster you flinch a monster, the more dps output is available to you. That compuunds and leads to a much faster conclusion to the fight.
SO DEVS BALANCE MONSTER HP AND ATTACK WITH HUNTER MAX ATTACK AND HP POSSIBLE EXACTLY SAME AS BEFORE BUT THIS TIME THEY MAKE YOU WASTE 1 MIN EVERY HUNT TO GET IT.
Spiribird is nothing but a delaying/time-sponge technique meant to boost playtime so they can market it as so and so hours of gameplay.
And just to prove how failed of a design mechanic it was, they tried to backtrack in SB by introducing a lv1 deco Spiribird Call to compensate for it.
Very High value but ultimately a bad implementation like the mechanic itself. Getting attack and hp spiribird is still a RNG mechanic when you want Max attack from the beginning of the fight itself to make it as short as possible, as calculated by the devs.
Love the Franchise and I love and beyond thankful to the dev team for making a masterpiece of a game that was MHW/IB despite being the only existing one of its kind. In a decade where we only get half-baked buggy trash and corporate meddled products, these guys reminded everyone what creating a classic video game was even while the monopoly was theirs.
Still that doesn't mean you can put makeup on a hog and call it a queen. MHR/SB is a failed entry in the series and the Spiribird is just of it's many problems.
Personally, I disagree with your take on Rise giving you the opportunity to ignore gathering by implementing spirit birds. You’re argument (unless I’m misunderstanding it, which is DEFINITELY possible) is that spirit birds are good because they are a new form of gathering to replace the old one (no more need of going on a gathering quest cause you can just collect everything you need in the first minute of the quest). I disagree with the part of gathering quest no longer being needed.
The way I understand it, your argument is OldSchool=50 minute gathering quest then hunt, NewSchool=gathering for 1 minute during hunt.
While I agree with the oldschool take, personally, as someone who still likes to use the items that give me an advantage (aka non Endemic Life items), I still have to go on gather quests anyways. So I’m still going out on gather quests, collecting items, farming, getting prepped for a hunt.. then I start a quest and have to do even more prep by collecting birds since their bonus is no longer available as a farming piece of material, and then hunt the monster.
So let’s say gather quest now take less time because of spiritbirds. For me, it still feels like going on a newschool = 30 minute gather quest, then at the beginning of a hunt spend 1 minute collecting birds, then I can actually hunt.
Personally, I think the only fix that the game needs is to just add the items back and that’s it.
Imagine having one of two options. Option 1 being you can choose to have permanent health during the quest at the cost of spending time collecting birds at the beginning (this can be favored by those who don’t want to spend time collecting materials for max potions before a quest), or Option 2, you can temporarily have max health at the beginning of a quest instantly at the cost of both preparing for it earlier / losing it on cart (this can be favored by those who don’t want to spend time collecting spirit birds during the quest). At the very least, having it work this way can be an extra reward for players like me who still spend a lot of time gather materials on expositions anyways
Endemic life doesn't replace gathering. It is PART of gathering, which is, to me, an fundamental part of Monster Hunter. So when people complain that "you have to waste time gathering stuff", I feel like they miss the point of MH completely.
@@iixxion fair enough. My only issue is that it’s gathering done during a hunting quest. I understand this can be better for some players, since they can farm materials while collecting birds, but personally I enjoy doing one massive chore to then engage with the hunting aspect of monster hunter longer until I need to do that massive chore again, than consistently doing a very tiny chore every quest. I don’t dislike spirit birds tho, I just lowkey would like the convenience of having an item to max out your health back (or at the very least, the convenience of having your health maxed out when you eat). Then again, maybe it would break the game in half to have both birds and max potions, but I would like to see if it’s maybe possible to have both
@@Jose_Ruiz932 i wouldn't be surprised to see max health show up as a permanent attribute in the next MH.
Boxes at camp need to go away I like managing the stuff i take in generations ultimate. The food could just not wear off after carting.
The folks that overly complain about the spirit birds are the same folks that complain when a new monster is released and they can't just use their high dps builds to wack it to death and complain that the monster is too hard or cheap. I like the spirit birds it's fun to gather them for me. I wish more players took the time to gather them instead of just unga bunga the hunt whenever they get into one (long sword and duel blade users especially I'm looking at y'all) instead of wasting team carts.
Nothing wrong with loving the old monster hunter games but if your thoughts are that the new games are so disastrous go back and stay playing the old ones no one is stopping you all from doing that.