Anti-Airs, Neutral, Mind Games, & Decision-Making | Sajam Discusses the Machabo Article
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- streamed Feb. 28, 2020
This article is an oldie but a goodie:guiltygear.se/g...
Article is assembled and translated by ShinjinBaiken, from a video series by Machabo & Kazunoko:
/ shinjinbaiken
This Xiaohai vs. Itabashi match analysis is also a good thing to watch if you like this kind of discussion on neutral: • SFV Match Analysis + N...
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Editing/Thumbnail by Magic Moste:
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#FGC
Little known fact: in 3rd strike, you can tech an air throw even if your character doesn't have one
This is exactly the kind of content I want to see!
I would love longer lecture style videos that cover these topics for sure.
@@Nickyhelliot Then you're gonna love the search feature on this website.
I meant specifically from Sajam.
One of my favorite fighting game articles and probably the main thing that made me hop from GGXRD to Samurai Shodown to Tekken 7. It's this type of fighting game "philosophy" that helped me basically convert to only playing fighting games. It reminds me of the tips that boxing trainers will give the fighter between rounds in the movies, and it gives me a lot of confidence to think for myself and make the experience fun.
⁷7-Eleven
I lost every game on celestial for an hour yesterday because my opponents will always just wait for me to whiff and not play aggressive at all. I can't step off the gas.
I actually needed this.
This is exactly what i need. Simple things to start with so i can actually focus on something and practice. Thank you
So this is a random 2 years check up. How's your progress going with fighting games? I hope you're still enjoying them
It's kind of cool how all of these concepts are the exact same in fencing /martial arts in general. The words are different but the ideas are the exact same. In Hema we call wiff punishing nachreisen (following after) for instance.
I like how he said that: think long term and you’ll see what’s beautiful about GG.
I don’t play GG, but I can appreciate a player’s affinity for their respective fg.
I’ll probably pick up the new GG.
The new GG looks like trash, dude. That's like saying you'll play SFV because Alpha 2 looks cool.
@@HiterLit this comment is dumb.
@@HiterLit this comment really hasn't aged well
@@itsaUSBline Its May of 2023, it really didnt haha
@@starbutter2730 depends on who you ask. The game is incredibly successful and still being played in tournaments in 2024 like with more people in those tournaments than games that just came out and yet there are plenty of folks who will trash on it and say it's a s*** game.
This is such a great article, we are at the point that learning fighting game are the most ez to learn just gotta know where to look and have patience
You are probably still a new player. Fighting games aren't easier to learn. They are really difficult to fully understand even if nowadays it's waay easier to learn them
I love those people who complain when you play aggressive and throw their ass on the ground over and over again, because they sit and wait there to get commmand grabbed. Ahhh, those juicy hate mails on Xbox 360 in SF4. "You don't play honest, you only throw, noob", is a classic. I miss them. Really good article. It's difficult to find material which you can apply to most fighting games. Thanks for sharing.
sf4 was the first fg i sat down and learned. i remember playing in lobbies with my friend's friends and they kicked me because i kept grabbing. they said i was cheap, it was very confusing to play "good" players and them telling me that i was playing "wrong" haha
@@mattgoo classic
@@mattgoo your friend werent hood players then lol. It’s annoying bruh thrown all game, but that’s apart of it. At least they didn’t call you a spammer, or noon because you space control/ pressuring them in the corner.
@@kingfargo9578 actually one was hood af and he flipped out and stood there and kept tea bagging me. haha
@@mattgoo lol I meant good*...
I wish there were more content like this for Smash. I love the mindgames from fighting games, and a lot of it exists within Smash in different ways, but it's not well documented or discussed.
Sounds like easy youtube money
there's a decent amount of "ancient" stuff on Smashboards but who knows how long that site will stay up tbh, the death of the internet forum is a crime
I'm pretty sure there's a decent amount of documentation for Smash of what you're talking about in the form of UA-cam videos, message boards, and etc.
It's probably most of them aren't written or expanded upon nearly as well as this article. Hell, it's probably purely written in Smash language as opposed to general fighting game language if it's old enough.
Speaking from experience it's actually pretty hard to translate a lot of fighting game stuff to smash just because of how different the game is in terms of its format.
In traditional fighters you have clear points of advantage/disadvantage and building off of things like frame advantage into bigger conversions. You can also make pretty good long term strategies without having insane execution just by understanding risk, reward, clearly defined things like screen position, meters and healthbars, etc.
Smash is very much a game you play in the moment, the conversions can be very fast and advantage/disadvantage are rarely clearly defined. Damage doesn't even necessarily mean you have an advantage.
@@saviorofseals5111 Rather an easily archived forum than a stray tweet (the account goes the thing goes) or Discord (similarly vulnerable) frankly.
Sure you CAN archive both alternatives but even looking plus how you need to be hyper vigilant unless it is a small community cannot be understated. Smash is fortunate as it is a big series which is getting bigger, so the boards will probably last since it is tied to the articles by design.
KOF taught me to just keep jumping because usually the anti air option has a lot less damage than the jump in. I can jump in 5 times and win when it works once. Strive though you can lose so much to a well spaced/clever an ti air combo you don't do that. The three entries of KOF are long lows, short jabs to beat hops, and hops that beat lows. It's all RPS in all games lol.
This video is what took me from Gold to Diamond, thanks 🙏🏾
ok, the part were Kazunoko thinks am an idiot killed me. xD
great vid Sajam, I don't know how the hell have I been in the FGC for that long without finding your channel .
Late to these guides but you’re a funny dude. And an awesome dude. I’m happy for your positive successes.
"it's not the game's fault that you can't anti air" *mk11 exists*
Facts
Flawless block u2
Nrs has some of the easiest aa
mk players typing youtube comments while their pre dialed combo plays out
@@RequiemOfSolo 🤣🤣🤣
Sajam and Aris have the best thumbnails
13:22 Does that even exist? I thought every Sol plays fast and loose.
What this article really is saying is that Guilty Gear is fucking amazing
Blessed content!
Direct link to Twitch VOD + timestamp: www.twitch.tv/videos/559314171?t=1h11m0s
even doe im a smash player this is still really useful, tysm
Im coming back to this video now because I got my 11yo cousin into 3rd Strike and he's actually really consistent with AA now after I've shown him the importance.
Unfortunately he's a little too consistent for 3s, so I jump in parry his attacks a lot
Machabo is a chad
Tanookied what's a Chad , weeb or pogger mean? Don't understand some of the trendy Internet slang getting thrown around.
@@Gaben420 yes
@@Gaben420Late but it p much means youre cool or awesome
Does anyone have the pdf? The article doesn't seem to exist anymore.
guiltygear.se/ggfundamentals-machabooshinjin.pdf
@@kratosonator thank you so much
10:35, just a personal time stamp
Is there a place to read the article?
man i love when ppl go over fundamentals ive been playing forever and i love this talk more then commentary
more fundamentals in tournament stop with the nonsense small talk... new games only get this love lol sajam and the early days now its just jokes :[
sad part is i will re watch this vid again after work lol
the link is now broken, does anyone have a copy of it?
Added it guiltygear.se/ggfundamentals-machabooshinjin.pdf
Holy shit ive been neglecting anti airs as i thought they were not that important im a idiot!
Perfect video
Good upload
You can tell this article was translated by weebs cause they translate everything into English, but then they get to the technique names and that stuff stays in the original Japanese. Like some sorta shonen jutsu
tbf the japanese terms are explained lol, some stuff is just hard to straight up localize (connotations between saying "abare" vs "mashing")
Well some terms just sound better in Japanese tbh.
do they even have english translations?
Its because the JP terms are more efficient describing the terms/situation more clearly. There is a reason why the term *Okizeme* persisted as the term for 'setting up offensive maneuvers on your opponents' wake up'. As well with the other terms that were used to describe neutral approaches.
Balrog player here. I have a hard time just sitting in neutral letting the bad guy just do what he wants. I need to shimmy and footsie. How to pound that into my brain.
Play casuals only doing that, eventually you will learn it. Don't care about winning the battle but the war
@@ponchuffyxxx Thanks. Been playing ranked just doing that. Not just not letting the bad guy get his plan going. 6 win streak so far.
any link for the full stream that has this video ???
Hey man this link is weird. Does it still work??? I get directed to another page.
There's a new site that pops up if you do a search for "guilty gear sweden". www.guiltygear.se/gg-fundamentals/
Hey everyone. Been clicking the link to the article on my phone and it doesn’t work. It takes me somewhere else completely. Also tried typing it out. Any help? I appreciate it.
Your anti-air needs to be *this* tall in order to play neutral
Holy shit the thing about when you poke, look up to see if your opponent jumped. Was playing SF5 while watching this video, started doin that and it worked. Hell yeah.
Very old school to know ant air basics. i always call it SF2 101. Annoying and conditioning people to play into the lame trap is fun though. Cant be predictable
NIce Sajam
"Anti-Airs"
*Mostly plays DoA*
The fuck is an anti-air?
is this article archived anywhere? the link to GGSweden is dead
@@suissechoklad7597 thank you, friend
...But aren't dashes reactable? I don't understand, dashes in SFV are at minimum 15 frames long, most are longer, add 5 frames to the throw startup plus the tech timing and you should easily be able to react to dash up throw. Well maybe not EASILY but my point stands.
Genuinely would like some advice on this. This sounds like a really good bit of advice but the whole thing falls apart if there literally doesn't exist a move that falls into the "unreactable" category.
The article is based on Guilty Gear. In GG you can dash across the entire screen very fast. Even so, if you can't react EASILY your point does not stand. If a game has a move that is literally unreactable it might as well be unbeatable. The point of competition is that it's challenging to react to stuff on time.
@@luan.galaxy Well except the whole point of the article is that there exists an unreactable option right? Pre-emptive beats unreactable, unreactable beats reaction, and reaction beats Pre-emptive.
I would say that dashup-throw is easily reactable if you're 100% focused on defense and have a good mental stack. When I said "not easily", I meant for brand new players. Once you put the reps in I do think it's pretty easy to react to a ~23 frame option.
@@DBonsaver do a different test then
watch the 1st 5 frames of a bunch of animations in real-time, then guess which animation is playing
u can guess correctly very frequently, but the amt of time it takes 2 guess w 100% accuracy is much much MUCH longer than ur supposed 2 react in-game
then get in2 expectation, if u expect only a dash u will react very quickly if they dash, if they dont u will react slower, u also have more false positives, meaning literally every other action they take will be buffed, compound this w the fact that in neutral its much safer 2 block & it decreases ur likelyhood 2 even want 2 tech a throw in the 1st place even if u expect it, just statistically, n then throw in that it could b dash jab instead of dash grab n theres ur answer
2 years late, but its not quite as simple as frame data. If you are looking for dash up throw, then yes its reactable assuming you are already familiar with it. If you arent familiar with it, then at what point in the dash animation will you recognize that theyre dashing?
But in neutral there's more to think about. the air, your opponent pressing big buttons, projectiles, etc. Your brain simply can't be ready to react to all of them at once.
If the opponent ONLY ever does dash up throw, sure you might be able to react to the dash and tech the throw. If they do anything else after dashing though, you lose those 15 frames as a reaction point. The dash is meaningless if they mixup what they do after it
Machabo is just magos weeb cousin
Anti-Aris. Everytime I see this in my reccomends
I'll save you 19:23 secs, "just pick a top tier bro".
Good ol' Sanford Kelly tech
Exactly. This is why I hate fighting games. Losing to spam fireballs and spam throw just because you can mash harder with your $200 peripheral smh
@@raritythefabulous how can you lose to spam fireball?
@@j.baptistecl.5758 "There's nothing I can do! He's just doing stuff!" I love Mike Ross but that's pretty much what my friends sound like when it happens.
@@raritythefabulous Lol, you have no idea how to play fighting games if you can say something that dumb.
Flowcharts baby.
Man, why would you land an anti aris
2D fighting games are too matchup heavy and mechanically difficult simultaneously thus it's hard for newer players to adjust to these concepts. In 3D FGs you at least get to interact more with the neutral or sidestep game that makes your small decisions seem bigger. That hold more weight in gaining knowledge and motivation. In 2D FGs you never feel, "Good enough" to turn tables by anti-airing alone. You can get boxed out too quickly in 2D FGs. They ask for too much in the beginning for newer players. The key to getting better are those bursts of information you receive while playing and the rounds you win.
3D fighting games allow you to plant mix-ups and see your trial and error quicker. In 2D FG you may never even reach the opponent, let alone touch him. Tekken sorta pushes that w/players that know advanced movement but that's because it has no block button, it blocks while you backdash. In VF, DoA, SC, backdash gets you crumpled/Counter hit to big damage.
I dunno. It's the opposite for me. Tekken requires a ridiculous amount of character knowledge before you even start to get to the point where you can play footsies with other people. Sure, you can trial and error what moves beat what and how to dodge certain moves but to learn it for every character takes years of playing. Literal years hence why every top player in tekken has played for 10+ years minimum. Even the fighting game prodigy, sonicfox, could not transfer his fundamentals to tekken because of the sheer lack of knowledge but could do so in 2d games since the character knowledge isn't super important.
2d games allows for a much simpler trial and error and will get you to player vs player fairly quickly. Granted, you can still get tripped up with set ups that you've never seen but that's just part of learning said game. Sure, it's super noticable when you play against somebody new or a veteran but that make the part where you beat the veteran much more satisfying.
Then there's melee. Melee.
Its preference really on which experience you want to experience. I like 2d games better. (And if you're wondering why I didn't elaborate on smash, it's pretty much both and I dont want to make this longer than it is already)
Yeah, but you are playing against other bad players. You don't need to know all this stuff to start, or even to win against other low level players, it's just stuff to think about to improve.
Link is dead.
I have no understanding at all
🎮
What about games where most anti-airs are useless, like KOF?