I agree with your comments about wheels and stability. I have several Emtbs but my favourite setup is my old 2018 carbon levo now with 170mm Fox 38's, 29 x3.0 front and yes 27.5 x 3.25 rear tyre both with Tannis armour + tubes . Effectively 30 inch rolling heavy wheels with fantastic suspension effect within the big tyres at 16psi.Also I only run 25% sag front and 20% rear. At 62kg (nearly back to my birth weight) it all works well for me being extremely easy on my body punching though long 30min rock garden decents. Emtbs are a totally different experience to steam bikes where bike weight is your friend especially for lightweight riders. Silence is also golden. I also run a Rohloff hub for less vulnerability to sticks destroying the annoying fiddly derailleur . The early Brose aluminium case motor is really the Quietest, smoothest most natural feeling motor ever built and having 2 x 500wh batteries are better than one 700wh on the latest bikes. The forks and big tyres lift the bike make it more stable and with short 150mm cranks nearly eliminate pedal strikes. Thats why E=Mtb² for me and how and where I ride. The magic of Emtbs is that they turn us into gleeful kids again and broaden our ability to explore terrain multiplying the joy of one of mans greatest gravity cheating inventions the bicycle. They are a Time Machine. E=Mtb²
I love Joe's view of bike building a tuning. Coming from a motorsports background, I have had a hard time understanding why some bike companies do what they do. These videos are refreshing.
Can't agree more re; wheels (of course!). 100% true that the right wheels and good choice of rubber are THE way to make a good bike into a a great bike! Really honoured to have so many of my wheelsets across so many of your bikes @StarlingCyles! Many happy customers abound :-)! Keep up the good work Joe and Co.!
Thanks for this! Bought a Murmur about a year ago and still had a few little questions that were answered here. Best bike I've ever owned and I'll have it the rest of my life.
Cheers mate love this video. Great discussion and totally agree with your very practical, logical recommendations. Now, I've re-watched this a few times and there's one thing I'm struggling to understand. Even though there's an equivalent amount of rear wheel movement, isn't a 100mm spring at 25% sag going to feel softer than a 150mm spring at 17% sag due to the lower spring rate to achieve that rear wheel movement? Or is there an inherant property of the shorter spring I'm missing, maybe the 100mm spring will start to ramp up due to a progressive curve. Or do I need to stop thinking about the spring and just consider the wheel movement. I'm comparing my 150mm lyric to my 120mm sid, in my head the sid feels softer. Cheers
@@joemcewan2950 Right. The spring rate is the "rate of force" required to move the wheel. 25mm of wheel movement requires the same rate of force. Think I get it now. Does this only apply to a linear spring and require all other things be equal e.g. leverage/frame progression?
Getting my Murmur in a few days. I want to build it aggressive trial/AM since most of my riding is rocky and Rooty. Plus I live enduro. I was going to run in 135 rear and 150 fork. Thoughts? PS, I agree on the tires and wheels. I like a heavy set for rough trails and a lighter set for more flow, less tech single track.
Would absolutely love to hear from you about what a Swoop or 27.5 is going to give you versus a Murmur or 29. Not so much as 27.5 versus 29 because that has been debated in nauseating frequency but more the Swoop versus Murmur. That would be a great video. And yes…I want a Starling but I’m trying to figure out which one. 😊
Wheelsize does have a big impact in differences between Swoop and Murmur, see Tech Blog on subject on website. Otherwise, the chainstay length is important, Swoop is shorter chainstay for more pop and ability for manuals, Murmur longer and more stable. Pick the compromise that best fits your riding style.... Email via the website and I can discus further.
I agree with your comments about wheels and stability. I have several Emtbs but my favourite setup is my old 2018 carbon levo now with 170mm Fox 38's, 29 x3.0 front and yes 27.5 x 3.25 rear tyre both with Tannis armour + tubes . Effectively 30 inch rolling heavy wheels with fantastic suspension effect within the big tyres at 16psi.Also I only run 25% sag front and 20% rear. At 62kg (nearly back to my birth weight) it all works well for me being extremely easy on my body punching though long 30min rock garden decents. Emtbs are a totally different experience to steam bikes where bike weight is your friend especially for lightweight riders. Silence is also golden. I also run a Rohloff hub for less vulnerability to sticks destroying the annoying fiddly derailleur . The early Brose aluminium case motor is really the Quietest, smoothest most natural feeling motor ever built and having 2 x 500wh batteries are better than one 700wh on the latest bikes. The forks and big tyres lift the bike make it more stable and with short 150mm cranks nearly eliminate pedal strikes. Thats why E=Mtb² for me and how and where I ride. The magic of Emtbs is that they turn us into gleeful kids again and broaden our ability to explore terrain multiplying the joy of one of mans greatest gravity cheating inventions the bicycle. They are a Time Machine. E=Mtb²
I love Joe's view of bike building a tuning. Coming from a motorsports background, I have had a hard time understanding why some bike companies do what they do. These videos are refreshing.
Can't agree more re; wheels (of course!). 100% true that the right wheels and good choice of rubber are THE way to make a good bike into a a great bike!
Really honoured to have so many of my wheelsets across so many of your bikes @StarlingCyles! Many happy customers abound :-)!
Keep up the good work Joe and Co.!
Loving your work sir!
Thank you Joe! Love the content and I appreciate you taking the time to share your bike knowledge with these informative videos. Happy holidays!
Thanks for this! Bought a Murmur about a year ago and still had a few little questions that were answered here. Best bike I've ever owned and I'll have it the rest of my life.
That's SO good to hear - thanks - enjoy it and get it in touch if you need anything!
really informative! looking forward to a video re: dynamic sag you’ve mentioned addressing
Cheers - watch this space!
Cheers mate love this video. Great discussion and totally agree with your very practical, logical recommendations.
Now, I've re-watched this a few times and there's one thing I'm struggling to understand. Even though there's an equivalent amount of rear wheel movement, isn't a 100mm spring at 25% sag going to feel softer than a 150mm spring at 17% sag due to the lower spring rate to achieve that rear wheel movement? Or is there an inherant property of the shorter spring I'm missing, maybe the 100mm spring will start to ramp up due to a progressive curve. Or do I need to stop thinking about the spring and just consider the wheel movement. I'm comparing my 150mm lyric to my 120mm sid, in my head the sid feels softer. Cheers
Nope, 17% of 150mm is 25mm movement, 25% of 100mm is 25mm. Therefore you need the same spring rate in both cases, so same 'firmness'.
@@joemcewan2950 Right. The spring rate is the "rate of force" required to move the wheel. 25mm of wheel movement requires the same rate of force. Think I get it now.
Does this only apply to a linear spring and require all other things be equal e.g. leverage/frame progression?
Getting my Murmur in a few days. I want to build it aggressive trial/AM since most of my riding is rocky and Rooty. Plus I live enduro.
I was going to run in 135 rear and 150 fork.
Thoughts?
PS, I agree on the tires and wheels. I like a heavy set for rough trails and a lighter set for more flow, less tech single track.
Would absolutely love to hear from you about what a Swoop or 27.5 is going to give you versus a Murmur or 29. Not so much as 27.5 versus 29 because that has been debated in nauseating frequency but more the Swoop versus Murmur. That would be a great video. And yes…I want a Starling but I’m trying to figure out which one. 😊
Wheelsize does have a big impact in differences between Swoop and Murmur, see Tech Blog on subject on website. Otherwise, the chainstay length is important, Swoop is shorter chainstay for more pop and ability for manuals, Murmur longer and more stable. Pick the compromise that best fits your riding style.... Email via the website and I can discus further.
Have you got any medium Roosts due in?
Looking at Autumn 23 for those - keep an eye on our social / sign up to the mailing list and we'll let you know!
How's the e bike coming along
Slowly...
What's going on with the sound?