Charge and Fight Phase - Mistakes to AVOID and Tips and Tricks in Warhammer 40K 10th Edition
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- Let's talk charge and fight phases in Warhammer 40K 10th edition!
Charge Phase core rules - • Charging in Warhammer ...
Fight Phase Core Rules - • Melee Combat in Warham...
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0:00 Intro
1:25 Charge Basics
2:33 Odds of Charges
5:09 Avoiding Overwatch
6:23 Gaining Model Movement Options
9:04 Options When Charging In
12;45 Countering Charges with Terrain
15:08 Tank Shock
16:17 Nuisance Charges
18:27 Resolving Combats
19:40 Who Fights When
21:01 Countering Fights First
23:22 Order of Attack Profiles
24:38 Epic Challenge
26:06 Casualty Removal
28:08 Consolidating for Advantages
33:19 Outro - Ігри
Always excited when Auspex talks about tactics
👋 Auspex Tactics 👋 (those are spirit fingers)
@@TheKengerBengerYou mean sarcasm fingers?
It really hurts when I click on a video like "Mistakes to avoid" and the mistakes mentioned are my entire battle plan.
Epic Challenge can come in pretty clutch against Necron wraith / technomancer squads. The technomancer is quite squishy, and getting rid of that 5+ FNP on wraiths makes a big difference. Situational, but given how oppressive wraiths are it's worth keeping in mind.
Just remember that during the combat in which you do this, the wraiths keep FNP even if you kill the technomancer. So if lets say I charge with Uthar and 5 Hearthguard, Uthar can kill the Technomancer but the Hearthguard still have to deal with FNP since the effect existed when that unit was chosen to fight. However, if you were to charge them with a second unit, that second unit would not have to deal with FNP.
As of this writing: Page 18 of the Rules Commentary, "While this model is leading a unit"
Epic Challenge is good, as Precision weapons tend to not be that great at actually killing things and Character melee is often much stronger, but it doesn't really impact the main combat that much until the following turn.
@@kich8672 Exactly. All melee combats are said to happen "at the same time", so even if you kill the character with a Precision attack, the rest of your attacks don't benefit from that, because they're going at the same time as those attacks, not after them.
Just remember that the technomancer retains the 6 toughness of the wraiths from bodyguards even when you target it with precision
@@Elitist1816but precision states you change the attack to be allocated to the character model instead of normal circumstances? I know 40K is really confusing, so I’m likely wrong here.
@@ribbityray5381 Precision is a really overthought rule, when I was learning it, it really confused me too. The thing you're looking for in the rule is this: "Each time an attack made with such a weapon successfully wounds an Attached unit" you target the attached unit, and if there is a character, you can choose to place the wounds on that character. The simplest way of thinking about Precision is when assigning damage, if you had Precision on that attack, you can choose to put it on the character or the bodyguard unit. Until you are assigning damage, Precision does nothing.
Appreciate how varied the recent content been, Auspex mate 👍
I mean…I would still watch it all anyway but this way it’s easier to justify… 😂
Auspex talks Tactics, always great.
Who needs to learn the charge phase when you can shoot them from across the board and be annoying?
laughs in drukhari 36" charge distance. seriosuly though, raiders ruined my day charging right across the baord into my marines and drumped lileth right into a shooty unit......
@@william9557 My Bladeguard deathball enters the chat...
90 30in range S5 pulse rifle shots say hi
templars entered the chat
Angron with a potential 34" charge
Very usefull video. I would love more like this
I really appreciate these more general videos.
Would love more of the Tactics part of Auspex Tactics! This video was superb.
I hit the like button and was rewarded with a better understanding of fighting my enemies!
For consolidation, as I understand it the choice of whether to move, and the direction, is "per model", so in the case where a single unit (with it's models in a line perhaps) has 2 models with different "closest enemy units" (one at either end of that line), you can move models into one of those units, but the models at the "other end" of your unit can stay where they are - so long as coherency is also maintained, of course.
Side note the if the terminators don't kill the deathleaper it activates in the Remaining Combat step and not in the fights first step as it wasn't valid to fight at the start of the fight phase.
OMFG thats exactly the vid i was looking for atm :D i love you bro
Thank you for the clarification on the consolidation move. Ran into an issue yesterday where a full terminator squad all base a rhino in the charge but then could use their consolidation move to tag another unit. Something seemed off that they could do that but I let it go. Next time I know.
The rules for being forced to base are contingent on the move being legal. So its not 'must base, anything that cant base can go anywhere in coherency', its actually the opposite. If you are making a charge move, and can base while maintaining coherency, then you must base. This is important nuance, as it allows you to do a lot of shenanigans with charge movement. Holding one model 12.1" back from your charge target means even if you roll a 12 you can place that model anywhere within 12" that is closer than 12.1" to the charge target. Then you can place your next two models so they are in coherency of that model. Repeat as tight as you want until you place the last model. If that last model needs to be placed into coherency out of base to base with the charge target,, you can do it, even if it started the charge 1.1" away and you rolled a 12. You do still have to get within 1" though.
Super useful, thanks for bringing all of these tips together as previously I was only able to pick them one by one from different pro-teams’ channels!
Very informative video! Getting rid of the Initiative stat and separating the assault phase into the "charge" and "fight" phases were two of the worst game design decisions GW ever made. It was definitely something I struggled to wrap my head around when I was getting back into the game in early 9th.
Agreed. Then realising they made mistakes they introduced fights first and fights last and made it a complete mess.
As an old 2nd edition player I have thought about this but I am still not sure if it is good or bad. With initiative I think it is easier to get weird match-ups where key initiative values just match up particularly poorly, so I think initiative is probably harder to balance. With fights first things are more binary though, so I am not sure it is always an improvement.
Super helpful info! I just got my hands on Custodes and my only experience playing 40k (with the exception of learning initially) is playing T'au. As you can imagine, that means I haven't touched the charge or fight Phase in many moons 😅
I appreciate the theory video. Thank you!
At 9:50 the terminators wouldn't be able to pile in as it might take the ones on the right out of unit coherency right?
Self move blocking is a smart tactic to gain additional movement distance, super helpfull for my slow deathguard.
Heroic Intervention is also interesting in this area. Have seen Jain Zar gets it for free so can be potentially useful for a role as a deadly guard unit. Stepping in the way of something attempting to come charging in.
As someone just learning, the charge and fight phase is so confusing.
I appreciate vids like this
Shoutout to Grimaldus and his 20-man Primaris Crusader Squad for landing my first ever 12-inch charge against Night Lords last week. Suck it, chaos.
I have attempted to pile-in to an enemy unit next to my charge target to do a little damage and been told I cannot do that as it was not declared as a charge target a few times in recent games. Are you saying not only was I correct in attempting to do so but it would also negate the enemies fight first if they had it!? Is there anywhere I can point to to show them this in no uncertain terms?
Yes you are correct. It's in the Pile In section of rules. Doesn't say anywhere you can only pile in to or consolidate in to unit you charged.
You negate fight first, because that unit is not activating - they are not in engagement range of anything. Your unit is activating and this includes making actual melee attacks aswell.
Hi, can someone help please? Can tanks attack models within 1 inch on the other side of a wall?
Bit odd because they can't move through the wall. But I can't see anything that says they can't do it...
Yes they can.
Fight phase tip. I almost found myself in trouble the other day. Factor in if you're destroying a vehicle its deadly demise! My Terminators destroyed a seraptek heavy construct, it's deadly demise is D6+2 & managed to wipe most my opponents own unit of immortals and very nearly put the Lion outside of 4". One more model dying would've meant I couldn't have piled the Lion in to Engagement range and fought and could've cost me the objective due to OC.
Question!
So, I had Ghazghkull and makari in a unit of meganobz. Got charged by Trajan attached to wardens. They chopped down the meganobz (it was during the waagh so fnp 4+)
When the meganobz died. I stopped using fnp on makari and ghaz. But this was during the same fight activation.
So my question is. Is that correct? Or did Ghaz and Makari have fnp for the entire wardens activation?
They had FNP for the whole activation. Check "When this model is leading a unit" entry in the Rules Commentary.
@@errdee2008 Roger that. Thank you.
Being able to move through ruins has always seemed like a super weird rule to me. You already have plenty of terrain types which obscure vision but not make movement too difficult (such as low walls, hills, etc.). Plus it just leads to the gamey ruin wall tricks which you have to do in competitive even though they don't really make sense thematically and just make things a hassle for both players.
100% agree, it is one of the stupider rules. The idea that infantry can move through a wall but a dreadnought can't is just so daft, and the lack of any terrain that hinders infantry movement in 10th is weird. Yet another reason I don't play this edition.
Mate u got me on the edge waiting for ork detachament tier list
He has already done it
@@shimuni9213 nope he did codex review and units tier list
It feels like a design issue where there are situations where roiling a 12 inch charge is non-optimal. I have to guess this was an attempt to make charge movement less complicated, which I don't think was accomplished.
When it comes to the overwatch part of the charge phase, if a model has torrent do they still have to roll 6s to hit?
I played against a tau player and he charged his fire warriors to stall my psychophage, but i used overwatch and his shooting has the torrent keyword, and I don't wanna make a mistake of assumptions and say i don't need to roll that when i should roll
For torrent weapons firing overwatch you roll for the number of auto hits as you would normally. No need to roll to hit, just roll number of hits then the wound roll and your opponent will then roll their saves if they get them.
@@braedonmcphedran6668 thanks for the information! Now I know to use torrent to guarantee hit rolls with overwatch
In my last name my opponent said you can only consolidate if you wiped the enemy unit. I took his word for it since I don't play ever, and it didn't sound as far fetched as the rules concerning terrain.
Store owner said that models going through ruins don't count vertical movement as though they had fly in ninth ed.
Epic challenge helps to zone out multiple charges into 1 unit of your own. You can then spend another cp for epic challenge precision or counter offensive to fight next with one of your units
I have a question for the rules as written WRT the fight phases. An opponent I played against did something rather sneaky. After my fight phase was done, he had a unit that wasn't charged, pile in to my charging unit because they were within 3" and apparently there's nothing that says you can't do that in the core rules.
Please clarify this for me as it was a point of contention in the match.
To select a unit to flight, it has to have charged that turn or be within engagement range (1"). So that unit that didn't charge shouldn't have been selected to flight unless it was within 1" of an opposing unit.
@Cheese1master that's my understanding as well, but he argued that he could pile in since he was within 3" of my unit and after doing so would be within 1" and able to fight, even though that unit was not charged
Why did he think he was eligible for a pile in move though? For that you first have to be eligible to fight and he would only be eligible to fight if at the start of the fight phase his unit was either within engagement range or had made a charge that turn (and so would be in engagement range anyway). You don’t get a free pile in move just because you’re 3” away. He’s done you there.
Are you able to pile into units that weren't the original target of a charge and fight them normally? i.e. charge one unit, staying out of engagement range of another, but piling in models that weren't able to get base to base with the original target. i.e. Avoiding units activating with Fight First
Yes, that is specifically addressed in this video. It is also a change from 9th edition, where you could only fight units you declared as a charge target in a turn in which you made a charge.
@@samhunter1205 lol..i just had to wait a little longer in the video before posting the comment
(speaking in Ork) there's other phases?
the thing about attacking models at the end of a line around 9:20. wouldnt this be negated by piling in? the unit of chaos marines in this scenario would easily get the first guy in base contact, then probably the second two guys in the second rank. Maybe only the last guy would be out of range at that point.
Just saved this focus tactic video!
The fights first bit still doesn't make sense to me, the 'fights first' ability of the deathleaper is activated in the 'fights first' step of the fight phase, so I don't understand how a pile in move negates that advantage?
It's not activated, because for activation, death leaper needs to be either in engagement range, or has made a charge. He has neither of those. So he waits there fo you to activate, pile in, hit you, finish your activation, and then gets to activate (as it's now in engagement range).
Needed info!
thank you sir.
If you consolidate into an enemy unit after fighting. Does that enemy unit then get to fight as its now in combat?
Yes
Jupp, at the end of the fight phase. The rules refer to it as "remaining combats"
Help me out with
Question: So when it says "within 12" does that mean exactly 12 from your base to the enemies? Or is a charge succsessful even if you´re half an inch out of, straight to base contact, before pile in?
You have to get "within engagement range", which is 1" horizontally and 5" vertically. That's inclusive, so being exactly 12" away means you need to roll an 11 on the charge. That said, if your result means a model can get to base-to-base contact, it has to do so. In this example, rolling a 12 means the model that is 12" away from the enemy has to move directly to the closest model and go base-to-base.
@@ZaberFangAT Oh cool, that is very helpful to know that the invisible area around the base can be enough to charge something. Thanks!
@@ZaberFangAT surely to be within 1 inch when you are 12 inches away you'd have to roll a 12? If you were exactly 12 inches away then rolled 11, you'd be exactly 1 inch away not within 1 inch
@@jakepeat690 Nope, the rules for measuring distances specifically say that "within" means any distance not more than that amount. 1" is not more than 1", so it's considered to be within 1" for rules purposes.
@@Dewoy1 No problem. You still have to be within 12" to declare a charge, so you can't technically make a charge that NEEDS a 12 to succeed, since anything "within 12" would need an 11, unless there's some penalty to your charge roll.
Is there a cap on the number of mortals you can deal with tank shock?
Countering Fights First like that feels nasty!
U been going brazy these last few days auspex
300K push is real
Wait. You said to avoid overwatch you could charge from behind LOS blocking terrain but I thought the overwatch rules stated you can overwatch when an enemy unit starts or ENDS charge move... Meaning you could just overwatch the enemy unit afterwards once they have charged out of the los blocking terrain... Did I get that wrong?!?
Is there a rule that states models MUST end in base contact if possible.
As a new player still trying to get all the nuances of the game I still don’t quite understand how the fight phase works for two units that are already in combat ( EG, the turn before they charged and fought but neither squad fully killed the other, and then chose not to “fall back” in the movement phase) without the “fights first” from not being able to charge, does this mean the defending player of that turn has their unit’s fight first now?
The defending player will get to activate a unit first, but you will still alternate activations. So for example if you have one ongoing combat then yes, the player whose turn it isn't will get to activate first. If you have two ongoing combats though, then the player whose turn it isn't will get to choose which unit to activate, but it will then be the player whose turn it is that gets to activate next.
@@samhunter1205 very helpful! Thank you very much for helping me out haha
3" with a reroll is not 100%. You can roll 1s 4x, unlikely to, but possible. Should also be 99%
Charge just needs you to end within 1” of the target. So if they are within 3” and the roll a 2” charge, they make the charge.
Fire overwatch - the rule states this can be done at the start or end of a charge move. So therefore charging from behind terrain wont actually protect you as it's possible to fire overwatch at the end of the charge, i.e. once the unit has passed through the LoS blocking terrain. Has this been FAQ'd?
Do observe however that when units are within engagement range of 1" you are only allowed to fire pistol weapons unless you are a monster or a vehicle. and if they already have moved they must be within within 1"
So if i charge from behind a wall, can that unit be overwatched?
No. Not even if you charge a Vehicle or Monster, even tho there are some who try to argue against that ruling.
@@errdee2008 surely they can shoot in engagement though?
Yay! Tactics 😊
Yesssssssssssss it's not about meta list building!!!
Thr sequencing seems wrong. Can't find it in the rules
I swear, I've studied more on how to play 40k than my own professional career...
Ly auspex
Yeah bro, I was playing a small skirmish against my Necron buddy and he was like damn that's a lot of chain fists on your terminators- my plumpy lads get a lot of hate when I charge.
Has anyone ever bumped into Auspex Tactics at a Tournament?
I'm wanting to confirm he's a real person that lives in a house, sounds like he's from the UK.
Surely someone knows him!!😅
watch the recent Mordian Glory video- featuring Auspex Tactics. Apparently they bumped into each other at a tournament and are now friends. I believe that yes, he is from the UK
Oh jeez, we've been doing a few of these things incorrectly in our game group. Sheesh.
Can you move your models through friendly ones in the charge, pile in and consolidate?
I'm not a competitive player but I really don't see the issue with 1" wall trick tbh. The game is one of positioning and using a wall for protection or to create a bottleneck seems like legitimate tactic. As long as you've told you opponent that's what you've done and aren't trying to use it as a gotcha I don't see it as a problem.
I appreciate my local stores rules so much, it makes melee much more viable. If 1 guy can make it through to the other side of the wall, anyone directly on the other side is "base to base" with their ally and can fight
I still think it's stupid that charging models don't move if they fail a charge. Even if it was half distance or only a maximum of 6. Or maybe if it was something only certain units could do. Either way, it's just really, really dumb from a "game feel" perspective.
Epic Challenge is such a broken strat when used on character like Avatar of Khaine or Ghaz.
Am I the only one noticing the prejudice here against the green skins!
So piling into a Fights First enemy negates their Fights First? Huh? I don't get it..
The unit with fights first is not eligible to activate when their fights first ability would be relevant. You can only be selected to fight if you made a charge move or are within 1' of an enemy. In the example Auspex gave, the unit with fights first did not meet those criteria and so could not be selected, at least until after the unit making the pile in move had done so and resolved attacks.
@@samhunter1205 Ah okay, so the unit needs to meet the fight criteria at the beginning of the Fight Phase. Maybe he said Consolidate and not Pile In, which would take part in different times of the fight phase. I probably need to watch it again..
@@samhunter1205Okay, I rewatched it. I get it now. The Terminators get Fights First because they charged and the pile in move they do is within their fight turn, so technically they're still resolving their attacks so the Death Leaper cannot interupt them mid-attack. Makes sense now.
@@woahhbro2906 100% correct. I would note as well, that while some of these tricks (especially the wall trick) are frowned on in some play groups, I think this one is actually important to allow to make the game work properly. Fights first is already extremely powerful in 10th, and disallowing potential counterplay can make fights first.units extremely uninteractive for melee heavy armies like World Eaters.
First!
I haven't watched the video yet.
But as a blood angels player, I've spent many many many hours mastering the charge and fight phase.
Yet, I'm going to love this video. I may have spent hours, but I got hours more to go if I am to fully master it.
I will say that I've gotten really good at positioning myself for easy charges. It's kinda hard to miss a 1" charge.
I never need cp reroll.
Add a comment...
13:00
It's not "gamey" to go 1.1 behind a wall. It's representative of the fact you should get benefits for defending a ruin.
Couldn't care less about playing 10th edition right now, sorry Auspex. Boycott GW. 3D print.
Look at me guys!!! I have a 3d printer!! Look!... you are the vegans of the table top community. Just shut up
Its easy. Just make your charge rolls.
GW rules be like " fight through the walls 🤡"