Great coming home to find your video. The H&M Duette was the first controller I ever bought 45 years ago! I still have it. Enjoyed the behind the scenes view of your superb railway, especially with Wren and HD locos!
Delighted by your observations echoing many of the comments in this thread. It is clear to me that the 'Duette' has been held and is still held in some esteem by many in this hobby. Also, thank you for your comments re the layout and of course the Wrenn locos.🙂
The one my dad gave me in 1973 is still powering my layout. He fitted 12V light bulbs across the thermal cutouts, so you can see instantly when a circuit has overloaded the controller.
Thanks for posting this. I had one of these controllers on my first train set when I was 9 back in the 80s which I sadly lost over the years. I've just purchased another one off eBay which turned up today. I couldn't remember what the buttons on the front were for and after watching your video I now know so thank you. Thanks for the tip about using half wave as well. You have a great lay out!
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful contribution to this growing thread. I think that the most revealing aspect aside from the interest of the units themselves is the personal memories that have been stirred and evoked. I never thought for one moment that when I decided to do this overview that it would generate the responses it has. Well, I'm delighted it has clarified the operational side of things for you. There are a few detailed insights from some respondents it might be worth checking out viz the units heating up on 'high resistance', essentially the voltage being throttled. Thank you again...enjoy the layout!👍
Nice explanation. Its good for it all to be explained clearly. I use 3 Tri-ang P5A Controllers for 3 circuits running old Tri-ang and Hornby Dublo engines. The old engines need higher current so are suited to the controllers of their era. I have one H&M Duette controller and a Morley Vector Zero Three. But after watching this I see that I should swap the Morley and the Duette because I feel that the Duette is more suited to the older Tri-ang engines. By the way. Talking to a guy who runs a Hornby Dublo channel, he explains that the warm up time needed is due to wear in the motors. I know from experience that Hornby Dublo and early Tri-ang engines need to be run warm and don't perform well if the motors get too cool. Thanks again. Happy Modelling Mon
Thank you kindly for that informed commentary and insight. As I'm beginning to discover, there's a whole world out there just on this topic of controllers. I've learned a lot more about this since uploading the video. Certainly, wear through continuous usage over time is a factor in warm up time. I have quite a lot of Wrenn which are a lot 'newer' than H.D. many of which have seen very little use. It's possible to tell from careful examination to draw that conclusion and they too need a decent warm-up. There again, simply the passage of time itself is a factor. Things just 'deteriorate' over time! Quite a few contributors have mentioned Morley. I know nothing about them. They certainly look the business. Are they any good, say compared to Gaugemaster, Hornby etc? Thank you and keep up your great work! Graeme👍
@@crewelocoman5b161 Hi Graeme. I suspect that the Morley controllers are better for newer motors so can be used in slow running. Personally I find that mine lacks grunt (current) for the old girls. Oscar Paisley uses one on his Early Tri-ang layout but I find on my Tri-ang Series 3 and Super 4 layouts the Morley is lacking. Thanks again for the insight into the Duette. Happy Modelling Mon
A Really interesting video, thankyou. I have tried a variety of different controllers. I always come back to the H&M clippers or duettes for Dublo and Wrenn. I really dont use the half wave, as like you stated, you can get really warm armatures. I occasionally run modern locos using the H&Ms but always on High resistance. My rule of thumb being low resistance motors (such as modern can types) need high resistance control. And High resistance older type motors like in Wrenn, Dublo and early Triang work best on Low resistance settings. The next best controller Ive tried with older models was a Morley, which was quite good until the main control knobs started to play up. Whereas the old H and M's just keep trucking along. The only advice I would have for anyone buying one second hand, is to get it checked by an electrician before use, as they are getting on in age now. I smiled at the old Mainline loco, they were ahead of their time for detail and finish, yet sadly tended to sound like a blender full of Rocks. 🤣
Thank you for your very detailed and considered thoughts on this topic. You're quite right about the Mainline. I bought that one two years ago, "brand new" for £46! It was among the final batches produced before they went under which showed some efforts to overcome the initial complaints and shortcomings. Much better profiled driving wheels, (remember those strange flat faced drivers?) improved buffers, safety valves and some attention given to the drive mechanism. It was still somewhat noisy but better than the original. It was the advent of Mainline, Lima, Airfix that probably contributed to H&M producing the final version of the Duette with the high resistance switches to work better with these models. The box even featured a picture of a Mainline loco! 👍
I’ve tried a few other controllers over the years, but I always come back to H&M Duettes and Clippers. They are of course ideal for my current Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout. I will definitely be using them on my new 2-rail layout when retirement eventually comes in a couple of years time. My first Duette which I got with my first train set back in 1969 (?) only works on one side now, but I ‘m pretty sure it’s repairable. The others were all picked up cheaply on eBay and are still immaculate ! Love ‘em ❤
Hi, There's a link in the description to this video to Handem Electronics who repair/service and sell H&M products if needed. Many thanks for your interest and comments. There's no doubt that there is an enduring interest in their products, particularly the Duette/Clipper which were probably their most successful controllers. I had no idea that they still had a significant following but like you, I've tried other controllers but found myself returning to H&M. If you can find them, the H&M Executive and Commander controllers are worth a look, a tad more sophisticated than the Duette supplying transistorised electrical power to the track, smoother than a resistance unit and more in keeping with more modern motors. They still push a full 1amp into the track so no worries for H.D and Wrenn.
The half wave is good for (and may have been designed for) backing a loco nice and gently onto its stock, or for a bit of shunting, rather than long periods of main line running. I love the industrial style of these old H&M and Triang P type controllers with either the hammerite type finish or lovely crackle finish similar to that used on some MGB dashboards. Your Wrenn and Dublo locos are really beautiful. The old black Triang Princess Vic looks so much better with the later chassis.
Hi, Thank you very much for your insights here, much appreciated. The build quality, solidity and visual finish are all part of the enduring appeal of these units. All my Wrenn and H.D. locos are in very good to pristine condition. The black Princess was a way of utilising the old chassis without the Walschaerts valve gear and minimal lining (cab and tender only) at a cheaper price. I used new replacement lining sheets to cover the cab, tender, running plate line and cylinders. I had to hand paint the boiler bands and wheel splashers!
I've always loved H&M controllers - they go on forever! I have three of them..a Duette, Clipper and can't remember the name of the third one but all really good. I've had the Duette since the late 80s and I think it was old even then but still going strong. Thanks for the info about the company that repair / refurb them....hope I never need to use them but good to know all the same! 😊
Hi, Thank you for your interest and comments. You are echoing many of the sentiments and experience of commentators on this thread. It is testimony to the reputation and esteem of Hammant and Morgan that there is dedicated support out there should it ever be required to keep them in tip-top condition. Much appreciated. Cheers!
I bought my Duette from An Ebay Seller three years ago for £45.00 and It's been running my N Gauge layout ever since. To be honest, I was hoping your video was going to go into the technical aspects of the unit more than you did. For example, I found that using the 16 volt output to power point motors was so strong a thrutch that it caused points to break, with the point leaves actually jumping our of the point on two occasions. My friend at the local Railway club suggested using the 12 Volt DC output to do this, but by this time I'd decided to remove all the point motors and went for manual changing. I never realised that the 12 volt was for a slave unit to turn it into a three lane controller. The one I have has never caused me any problems, and I only bought it because it was the type of controller that me and my father used back in the 1970s when he was into the hobby. I run USA outline, and the best runners are Modern Atlas and Kato locos, with certain Bachmann and Life-Like examples giving pretty good performance overall. They all seem to be pretty good with the High Res mode, but Life-Like do not like the Half Wave Pulse Power. Overall, your video was a nice little homage to a very reliable, excellent power unit. By the way, like your layout, especially the engine depot section. Looked very industrial and realistic. Best wishes, Alan Morgan.
Hi Alan, Thank you for your detailed overview and experience of the controller being reviewed here. I'm sure many contributors to this thread will find this to be informative and of great interest. I've certainly been finding out a lot more since I put this video up. As I've never utilized electrically operated points (prefering manual) I am not in a position to comment on some of the features that were intended to extend its utility...other than the connection of a 'slave' unit and the hi/lo resistance and half/full wave rectification. Many thanks for your input. Cheers, Graeme👍
The term "Normal" refers to the right hand turning of the knob, not necessarily the direction of the train. That might be forward even with the knob set to "Reverse", if it's going the opposite direction! I still have 2 H&M Safety Minors which, as mentioned in another comment, are variable transformer units and give superior control. I had a little trouble with one of them when a flexible wire on the transformer wiper broke. When I removed the case to investigate the problem of course this meant drilling out the pop rivets and replacing with self-tapping screws. I am fairly confident that these units are safe, although mine don't have the "Double square" symbol indicating double insulation. Nice to know others are still using these superbly built units.
Thank you for your comments and observations. Your understanding of "Normal" and "Reverse" may be valid but it doesn't make any sense in relation to actual railway operation where two llnes run in opposite directions with the only exceptions being maintenance requirements and referenced as "wrong line" operation (or here as demonstrations). In my case there are four lines: up fast, down fast; up slow, down slow and the tracks are wired accordingly so that forward is always related to the direction of travel ie either up or down as the case may be. I mentioned in the description to this video and in my discussion that the Duettes were resistance controllers as opposed to the more sophisticated variable transformer Safety Minor and Powermaster controllers and that I had previously been using the Executive and slave Commander transistorised units as they were supposed to offer a smoother mode of operation compared to the resistance controller and perhaps slightly better suited to more recent loco motors. It would seem that the Duette/Clipper controllers were H&M's most successful products judging by the numbers available on the second hand market as the variable transformer and transistorized controllers are hard to find...at least in good condition.
@@crewelocoman5b161 I can see your logic in that "Forward" always means direction of travel, whichever line, up or down, is in use. It's just that being brought up with DC operation and "Centre - off" controls, I can't shake the habit of "Turn to the right to go right, left to go left". Of course this is different in DCC when "Forward" means forward for the engine, not the line direction. Interesting discussion.
I have a Hammant & Morgan TRC from about 1960. I use it with all my modern Hornby, Bachmann and Dapol locomotives and it gives smooth control from starting to slow down and stop. It has transformer (not resistance) control. I paid £1.00 for it in 1964 which is $NZ2.00 in the decimal currency New Zealand introduced in 1967. Have had a registered electrician replace the mains cable about eight years ago. Still going strong!
Hiya - I got my H & M Duette when my late Dad bought me my 1st 3 Train Sets back in the Mid 1980's & I've still got it & use it to this present Day!!!. The only thing it has a little 'wear & tear' - just around both of the 2 black knobs, it is a little warn were I have been touching it with the end of my fingers as I have been turning them backwards & forwards or should I say (as you pointed out @ 2:23) 'Normal & Reverse'!!! Also the 'Resistance' switch on the 'B' side does sadly no longer 'Click' when you switch it from 'High to Low' or 'Low To High' but it does still work thou!!! @ 5:51 - I didn't know that you could link it up to other units - all I have ever used them for is to either plug in Points and / or power R406 Coloured Light Signals!!! @ 7:19 - Yes I have found that too, they can slip & slipe very easily!!! That's a good idea what you have done!!! @ 8:44 I also have a H & M 2000 - very swift I think!!! A Lovely Layout with Lovely Locos you have got by the way!!! (Sorry I hope I haven't written to much here!!!) @ 16:35 Would you like one of my Re-Railer or Railer (On depending what you want to call them!!!🤔😉) I have a few spare!!! @ 16:58 Is that a Class 4F I spot??? I have an LMS Version No. 3924 from the Railway Children Return R30221!!! I also Have a Princess Victoria - but sadly it doesn't work too well!!! Oh you've got a Midland Compound 1000 like I have, 1 of my Fav Locos!!! But mine it not an LMS, Thanks for showing 😉🙂🚂🚂🚂
Hi, Thank you very much for that very detailed and enthusiastic comment. No, you haven't written too much at all! It's great hear and read what others have to say especially about the H&M Duette. I'm not sure the Resistance and Half Wave switches ever "clicked" as such. On my units they are just very stiff to move from side to side but I could be wrong on that. I have a few 4Fs, one LMS, one weathered, one with a diagonal stripe across the cab. The Midland/LMS Compounds are favourites of mine too. The one shown here has had some modifications: the poorly profiled plastic buffers have been replaced with metal ones, screw coupling added, vacuum pipe added and the chimney replaced with a more accurate whitemetal casting. Also, I'm fortunate to have the Bachmann Midland 1000, a beautiful model. Thank you for your offer of the road/railer. I do have one but tend to use it more for diesels. Mainline/Bachmann locos with sprung down front bogies I'm now finding tricky to rail as I get older! Your comments are much appreciated.
Thanks for this, an excellent overview, I have three Duette controllers, two of them are begining to fail on one output, I'm fairly sure I can sort them once I have time to open them up. One of them I have had in regular use for over thirty years. It''s interesting H&M have used "Normal" and "Reverse" as these are signalling terms.
Hi, Thank you very much indeed for your interest and comments. I was unaware that "Normal" and "Reverse" are signalling terms. Well, that explains that one! I hope you manage to get your units fully functional again...there's some interesting comments in the thread that point to some the problems that do crop up with these controllers and there is the link for further reference. Cheers!
There were at least two different H&M Duettes before the one you are showing. The first was black with silver wording, and a lot less wide. The second was silver with black lettering, as this one, but the same size of the first one. The reason for the "normal" and "reverse" dates back to the days of 3-rail, where the loco would go forward or reverse, as on the controller. With 2-rail, the locos will go in the same direction on the track, even if your turn it round.
Yes I know...I have one, the silver one with black lettering. Thank you for the "Normal/Reverse" explanation. If you scroll through this thread you will find that there are two other different explanations provided. Interesting isn't it!
I have a hammond and morgan duette controller that still works must be 67 year old my dad and brother had it before i was born in 1965 .i am 59 now and its going strong
Hi Graham, Thank you for your memories and contribution to this thread. Many of the comments here reflect similar sentiments. We are talking about model railway train controllers...yet it's always the back story that we remember and relate to.🙂 Cheers, Graeme
Neat, the old controllers were meant to last as so many things clearly did. I have a Duette and the single version, though they're too big to use, sadly.
They're still readily available...at a price. The 'rare' ones are hardly seen at all and you don't get much change out of £1k if you are lucky to come across one! The same goes for the other 'original' Wrenn model, the Bulleid 'Spam-Can' Many thanks for your interest and observations.
My Dad had a Duette, unfortunately over time the metal plate on the front kept peeling so it was always taped back into place. Eventually the transformer broke free and we retired it. I'm sure I usually ran them with Low resistance and Half wave for slow running of Lima models but maybe it was round the other way :D
Hi, Many thanks for your contribution here. This is building up into quite an interesting archive of history and information about Hammant and Morgan and people's memories of them. I can't think of anything that comes near to what I've learnt and picked up in this growing thread. We are talking model railway power controllers...! Your Dad probably ran his Lima on High Resistance as this particular controller came out about the same time as Lima, Mainline and Airfix appeared on the scene; these would shoot out of the blocks without some resistance being applied! The 'half wave' switch allowed extremely slow running but was not recommended for extended running on account of over heating. Cheers!
Well I love the look of the Duette and am familiar with them from the 60s. I hate to be negative about such a stylish and iconic piece of equipment as the Duette but I think H&M made better controllers. The Duette is a resistance controller so voltage is constant but current flow is choked off by a variable resistance. The “choked off” current appears as heat and is why the controller gets warm. It is also why on starting with a resistance controller you normally have to turn up the power and immediately turn it down once it starts to move. A much better vintage H&M controller in my opinion is the variable transformer type embodied in the Powermaster and Safety Minor controllers which varies the tapping on the transformer such that the voltage varies altering the speed of the loco but without that business of having to turn the control knob back once the loco moves. I am pretty sure that the Duette and Clipper output is not smoothed meaning a bit more “buzz”from the loco. In addition the rectifier in the Duette is very old technology and the rectifier liable to break down and while I cant verify this I have heard it said that some Duettes contain asbestos. I feel a pang of conscience saying these negatives about this controller as they were much coveted back in the day and I do own a couple! They certainly perform a function and are absolutely fine for everyday use of older models just,perhaps, in my view not the best of the H&M vintage range.
I have had that problem. When I opened it up I found that the resistance mat had broken its wire. I repaired it with a new resistance mat. The case now never becomes more than lukewarm under any load conditions.
Still have a Clipper from 1975 . I was disappointed as I wanted a new Hornby controller but they were all sold out after Christmas . The guy in the Model Shop got me to switch the the Clipper instead . I still have it , but now powers some sidings and mpd as I’ve switched to Gaugemaster for main lines . Recently though , I’m considering replacing it as I have a few locos with coreless motors . I haven’t noticed any difference in running but I’m getting told these old controllers are not really compatible with new models . I have been toying with running a DCC sound loco on DC but I’m told these Controllers can produce voltage spikes that will fry the decoder . Trouble is , as well as these newer models I run my old Wrenn Triang etc . Think a Morley Controller may be the way to go . But it’ll be a shame to stop using my Clipper . It’s been a faithful controller all these years .
Hi Russell, Thank you for your operational overview and experience of the Clipper. Control systems are a whole subject matter in themselves. Fascinating!
That coronation isnt the best runner. My 264 tank( wrenn) but basically a hornby dublo model courld literally inch forward incredibly slowly. With the valve rod operating as well as the piston rod. The scot runs very well though.
Thank you for your comment. I don't recall saying it was the best runner merely that they all display varying running characteristics including the respective movement of the valve gear and especially the valve rod. I too have the Standard 2-6-4 tank, a dozen of the Wrenn variety and one Hornby Dublo and they all perform differently, make different sounds, no two alike. Let's not forget, these models were assembled and finished by hand with lines of bench workers some forty or more years ago. As I mentioned in the video they could all benefit from a warm up running session before use. ua-cam.com/video/3qMrUj1YeMI/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/iSi2fvr0n-o/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/Vys5ypYxQjs/v-deo.html
@@crewelocoman5b161 you're probably spot on as regards warming up. The coronation seemed to be binding a touch. My Duette was the bees knees. Interestingly all the model railway controllers were never advertised or named as being model railway controllers. Just power units. Something to do with purchase tax categories.
Those units were designed by someone who had no experience wiring or running model railways ! Awkward is being kind. Side by side, the obvious design flaw is access to the A/C outlets for points or accessories 😐
Those units were designed by someone who did have experience of wiring and running model railways...from a different era. The units don't have to be arranged in the manner featured here for starters. Their efficacy is proven by their durability, build quality, reliabilty and the fact that they have lasted for such a long time and are still being sort after and sold despite not being produced for some fifty years. End of.
Great coming home to find your video. The H&M Duette was the first controller I ever bought 45 years ago! I still have it. Enjoyed the behind the scenes view of your superb railway, especially with Wren and HD locos!
Delighted by your observations echoing many of the comments in this thread. It is clear to me that the 'Duette' has been held and is still held in some esteem by many in this hobby. Also, thank you for your comments re the layout and of course the Wrenn locos.🙂
The one my dad gave me in 1973 is still powering my layout. He fitted 12V light bulbs across the thermal cutouts, so you can see instantly when a circuit has overloaded the controller.
Many thanks for your comments and observations. Yet further innovation and longevity on display!
Thanks for posting this. I had one of these controllers on my first train set when I was 9 back in the 80s which I sadly lost over the years. I've just purchased another one off eBay which turned up today. I couldn't remember what the buttons on the front were for and after watching your video I now know so thank you. Thanks for the tip about using half wave as well. You have a great lay out!
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful contribution to this growing thread. I think that the most revealing aspect aside from the interest of the units themselves is the personal memories that have been stirred and evoked. I never thought for one moment that when I decided to do this overview that it would generate the responses it has. Well, I'm delighted it has clarified the operational side of things for you. There are a few detailed insights from some respondents it might be worth checking out viz the units heating up on 'high resistance', essentially the voltage being throttled. Thank you again...enjoy the layout!👍
I just love these older locos, so anything that helps to keep them running has to be good. Thanks for showing how to use those switches. Cheers
Hi, Thank you very much for your comment and observations. Delighted you found it useful. Cheers!👍
Nice explanation.
Its good for it all to be explained clearly.
I use 3 Tri-ang P5A Controllers for 3 circuits running old Tri-ang and Hornby Dublo engines.
The old engines need higher current so are suited to the controllers of their era.
I have one H&M Duette controller and a Morley Vector Zero Three.
But after watching this I see that I should swap the Morley and the Duette because I feel that the Duette is more suited to the older Tri-ang engines.
By the way. Talking to a guy who runs a Hornby Dublo channel, he explains that the warm up time needed is due to wear in the motors.
I know from experience that Hornby Dublo and early Tri-ang engines need to be run warm and don't perform well if the motors get too cool.
Thanks again.
Happy Modelling
Mon
Thank you kindly for that informed commentary and insight. As I'm beginning to discover, there's a whole world out there just on this topic of controllers. I've learned a lot more about this since uploading the video. Certainly, wear through continuous usage over time is a factor in warm up time. I have quite a lot of Wrenn which are a lot 'newer' than H.D. many of which have seen very little use. It's possible to tell from careful examination to draw that conclusion and they too need a decent warm-up. There again, simply the passage of time itself is a factor. Things just 'deteriorate' over time! Quite a few contributors have mentioned Morley. I know nothing about them. They certainly look the business. Are they any good, say compared to Gaugemaster, Hornby etc?
Thank you and keep up your great work!
Graeme👍
@@crewelocoman5b161
Hi Graeme.
I suspect that the Morley controllers are better for newer motors so can be used in slow running.
Personally I find that mine lacks grunt (current) for the old girls.
Oscar Paisley uses one on his Early Tri-ang layout but I find on my Tri-ang Series 3 and Super 4 layouts the Morley is lacking.
Thanks again for the insight into the Duette.
Happy Modelling
Mon
@@monsvillerailways5736 Splendid!👍
A Really interesting video, thankyou.
I have tried a variety of different controllers.
I always come back to the H&M clippers or duettes for Dublo and Wrenn.
I really dont use the half wave, as like you stated, you can get really warm armatures.
I occasionally run modern locos using the H&Ms but always on High resistance.
My rule of thumb being low resistance motors (such as modern can types) need high resistance control. And High resistance older type motors like in Wrenn, Dublo and early Triang work best on Low resistance settings.
The next best controller Ive tried with older models was a Morley, which was quite good until the main control knobs started to play up.
Whereas the old H and M's just keep trucking along.
The only advice I would have for anyone buying one second hand, is to get it checked by an electrician before use, as they are getting on in age now.
I smiled at the old Mainline loco, they were ahead of their time for detail and finish, yet sadly tended to sound like a blender full of Rocks. 🤣
Thank you for your very detailed and considered thoughts on this topic. You're quite right about the Mainline. I bought that one two years ago, "brand new" for £46! It was among the final batches produced before they went under which showed some efforts to overcome the initial complaints and shortcomings. Much better profiled driving wheels, (remember those strange flat faced drivers?) improved buffers, safety valves and some attention given to the drive mechanism. It was still somewhat noisy but better than the original. It was the advent of Mainline, Lima, Airfix that probably contributed to H&M producing the final version of the Duette with the high resistance switches to work better with these models. The box even featured a picture of a Mainline loco! 👍
I’ve tried a few other controllers over the years, but I always come back to H&M Duettes and Clippers. They are of course ideal for my current Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout. I will definitely be using them on my new 2-rail layout when retirement eventually comes in a couple of years time. My first Duette which I got with my first train set back in 1969 (?) only works on one side now, but I ‘m pretty sure it’s repairable. The others were all picked up cheaply on eBay and are still immaculate ! Love ‘em ❤
Hi, There's a link in the description to this video to Handem Electronics who repair/service and sell H&M products if needed. Many thanks for your interest and comments. There's no doubt that there is an enduring interest in their products, particularly the Duette/Clipper which were probably their most successful controllers. I had no idea that they still had a significant following but like you, I've tried other controllers but found myself returning to H&M. If you can find them, the H&M Executive and Commander controllers are worth a look, a tad more sophisticated than the Duette supplying transistorised electrical power to the track, smoother than a resistance unit and more in keeping with more modern motors. They still push a full 1amp into the track so no worries for H.D and Wrenn.
The half wave is good for (and may have been designed for) backing a loco nice and gently onto its stock, or for a bit of shunting, rather than long periods of main line running. I love the industrial style of these old H&M and Triang P type controllers with either the hammerite type finish or lovely crackle finish similar to that used on some MGB dashboards. Your Wrenn and Dublo locos are really beautiful.
The old black Triang Princess Vic looks so much better with the later chassis.
Hi, Thank you very much for your insights here, much appreciated. The build quality, solidity and visual finish are all part of the enduring appeal of these units. All my Wrenn and H.D. locos are in very good to pristine condition. The black Princess was a way of utilising the old chassis without the Walschaerts valve gear and minimal lining (cab and tender only) at a cheaper price. I used new replacement lining sheets to cover the cab, tender, running plate line and cylinders. I had to hand paint the boiler bands and wheel splashers!
I've always loved H&M controllers - they go on forever! I have three of them..a Duette, Clipper and can't remember the name of the third one but all really good. I've had the Duette since the late 80s and I think it was old even then but still going strong. Thanks for the info about the company that repair / refurb them....hope I never need to use them but good to know all the same! 😊
Hi, Thank you for your interest and comments. You are echoing many of the sentiments and experience of commentators on this thread. It is testimony to the reputation and esteem of Hammant and Morgan that there is dedicated support out there should it ever be required to keep them in tip-top condition. Much appreciated. Cheers!
I am so glad you mentioned not to use half wave rectification for long periods cause as you point out it can cause the motors to over heat
Thank you for your comment. It's putting a half-wave AC current into the motor and it's not recommended at all for N Gauge. 👍
Excellent sir !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Thank you very much! Delighted you enjoyed.
I had the clipper double. Still have it somewhere in fact in my parents' loft. so simple and so effective.
Well said, Sir! I couldn't agree more.👍
I bought my Duette from An Ebay Seller three years ago for £45.00 and It's been running my N Gauge layout ever since. To be honest, I was hoping your video was going to go into the technical aspects of the unit more than you did. For example, I found that using the 16 volt output to power point motors was so strong a thrutch that it caused points to break, with the point leaves actually jumping our of the point on two occasions. My friend at the local Railway club suggested using the 12 Volt DC output to do this, but by this time I'd decided to remove all the point motors and went for manual changing. I never realised that the 12 volt was for a slave unit to turn it into a three lane controller. The one I have has never caused me any problems, and I only bought it because it was the type of controller that me and my father used back in the 1970s when he was into the hobby.
I run USA outline, and the best runners are Modern Atlas and Kato locos, with certain Bachmann and Life-Like examples giving pretty good performance overall. They all seem to be pretty good with the High Res mode, but Life-Like do not like the Half Wave Pulse Power.
Overall, your video was a nice little homage to a very reliable, excellent power unit.
By the way, like your layout, especially the engine depot section. Looked very industrial and realistic.
Best wishes, Alan Morgan.
Hi Alan, Thank you for your detailed overview and experience of the controller being reviewed here. I'm sure many contributors to this thread will find this to be informative and of great interest. I've certainly been finding out a lot more since I put this video up. As I've never utilized electrically operated points (prefering manual) I am not in a position to comment on some of the features that were intended to extend its utility...other than the connection of a 'slave' unit and the hi/lo resistance and half/full wave rectification. Many thanks for your input.
Cheers,
Graeme👍
I've had one for 30 years. I was a bit hesitant to use it after a 20 year break, so I opened it up - and yep, they are really safely built.
Hi, Many thanks for your contribution to this growing thread! Your assessment does chime with the majority of comments here. Great stuff👍
The term "Normal" refers to the right hand turning of the knob, not necessarily the direction of the train. That might be forward even with the knob set to "Reverse", if it's going the opposite direction! I still have 2 H&M Safety Minors which, as mentioned in another comment, are variable transformer units and give superior control. I had a little trouble with one of them when a flexible wire on the transformer wiper broke. When I removed the case to investigate the problem of course this meant drilling out the pop rivets and replacing with self-tapping screws. I am fairly confident that these units are safe, although mine don't have the "Double square" symbol indicating double insulation. Nice to know others are still using these superbly built units.
Thank you for your comments and observations. Your understanding of "Normal" and "Reverse" may be valid but it doesn't make any sense in relation to actual railway operation where two llnes run in opposite directions with the only exceptions being maintenance requirements and referenced as "wrong line" operation (or here as demonstrations). In my case there are four lines: up fast, down fast; up slow, down slow and the tracks are wired accordingly so that forward is always related to the direction of travel ie either up or down as the case may be. I mentioned in the description to this video and in my discussion that the Duettes were resistance controllers as opposed to the more sophisticated variable transformer Safety Minor and Powermaster controllers and that I had previously been using the Executive and slave Commander transistorised units as they were supposed to offer a smoother mode of operation compared to the resistance controller and perhaps slightly better suited to more recent loco motors. It would seem that the Duette/Clipper controllers were H&M's most successful products judging by the numbers available on the second hand market as the variable transformer and transistorized controllers are hard to find...at least in good condition.
@@crewelocoman5b161 I can see your logic in that "Forward" always means direction of travel, whichever line, up or down, is in use. It's just that being brought up with DC operation and "Centre - off" controls, I can't shake the habit of "Turn to the right to go right, left to go left". Of course this is different in DCC when "Forward" means forward for the engine, not the line direction. Interesting discussion.
@@oleyorkie 👍
I have a Hammant & Morgan TRC from about 1960.
I use it with all my modern Hornby, Bachmann and Dapol locomotives and it gives smooth control from starting to slow down and stop. It has transformer (not resistance) control. I paid £1.00 for it in 1964 which is $NZ2.00 in the decimal currency New Zealand introduced in 1967.
Have had a registered electrician replace the mains cable about eight years ago. Still going strong!
What more can I say? They just keep on going! Is that the 'Safety Minor' you have? Many thanks for your welcome comments.
Very interesting video thanks for sharing J
Thank you indeed. Delighted you enjoyed.
I have a double and a single that I use for my O gauge trains. They both work well.
Thank you for your contribution. Delighted to hear that they work well for you.👍
Hiya - I got my H & M Duette when my late Dad bought me my 1st 3 Train Sets back in the Mid 1980's & I've still got it & use it to this present Day!!!. The only thing it has a little 'wear & tear' - just around both of the 2 black knobs, it is a little warn were I have been touching it with the end of my fingers as I have been turning them backwards & forwards or should I say (as you pointed out @ 2:23) 'Normal & Reverse'!!! Also the 'Resistance' switch on the 'B' side does sadly no longer 'Click' when you switch it from 'High to Low' or 'Low To High' but it does still work thou!!! @ 5:51 - I didn't know that you could link it up to other units - all I have ever used them for is to either plug in Points and / or power R406 Coloured Light Signals!!! @ 7:19 - Yes I have found that too, they can slip & slipe very easily!!! That's a good idea what you have done!!! @ 8:44 I also have a H & M 2000 - very swift I think!!! A Lovely Layout with Lovely Locos you have got by the way!!! (Sorry I hope I haven't written to much here!!!) @ 16:35 Would you like one of my Re-Railer or Railer (On depending what you want to call them!!!🤔😉) I have a few spare!!! @ 16:58 Is that a Class 4F I spot??? I have an LMS Version No. 3924 from the Railway Children Return R30221!!! I also Have a Princess Victoria - but sadly it doesn't work too well!!! Oh you've got a Midland Compound 1000 like I have, 1 of my Fav Locos!!! But mine it not an LMS, Thanks for showing 😉🙂🚂🚂🚂
Hi, Thank you very much for that very detailed and enthusiastic comment. No, you haven't written too much at all! It's great hear and read what others have to say especially about the H&M Duette. I'm not sure the Resistance and Half Wave switches ever "clicked" as such. On my units they are just very stiff to move from side to side but I could be wrong on that. I have a few 4Fs, one LMS, one weathered, one with a diagonal stripe across the cab. The Midland/LMS Compounds are favourites of mine too. The one shown here has had some modifications: the poorly profiled plastic buffers have been replaced with metal ones, screw coupling added, vacuum pipe added and the chimney replaced with a more accurate whitemetal casting. Also, I'm fortunate to have the Bachmann Midland 1000, a beautiful model. Thank you for your offer of the road/railer. I do have one but tend to use it more for diesels. Mainline/Bachmann locos with sprung down front bogies I'm now finding tricky to rail as I get older! Your comments are much appreciated.
@@crewelocoman5b161 Arrrr Thank you 🙂🚂🚂🚂
Still the finest dc controllers made
Thank you for your comment and contribution.
Yes, mine is still in regular use after goodness knows how many years.
...why am I not surprised? Splendid stuff. Thank you for your contribution.
Cheers. 🙂
Thanks for this, an excellent overview, I have three Duette controllers, two of them are begining to fail on one output, I'm fairly sure I can sort them once I have time to open them up. One of them I have had in regular use for over thirty years. It''s interesting H&M have used "Normal" and "Reverse" as these are signalling terms.
Hi, Thank you very much indeed for your interest and comments. I was unaware that "Normal" and "Reverse" are signalling terms. Well, that explains that one! I hope you manage to get your units fully functional again...there's some interesting comments in the thread that point to some the problems that do crop up with these controllers and there is the link for further reference. Cheers!
That’s what I had as a kid in the early 80s on my layout.
Thank you for your interest and comment. They have certainly stood the test of time.
There were at least two different H&M Duettes before the one you are showing. The first was black with silver wording, and a lot less wide. The second was silver with black lettering, as this one, but the same size of the first one.
The reason for the "normal" and "reverse" dates back to the days of 3-rail, where the loco would go forward or reverse, as on the controller.
With 2-rail, the locos will go in the same direction on the track, even if your turn it round.
Yes I know...I have one, the silver one with black lettering. Thank you for the "Normal/Reverse" explanation. If you scroll through this thread you will find that there are two other different explanations provided. Interesting isn't it!
They were built to last. I kept all my HM units even though I went to DCC. I used my slave controller to power the lighting on the layout.
No doubt about that. Slendid stuff! Thank you for your contribution.
Thank you, I was wondering what I could do with my unused new slave unit.
I have a hammond and morgan duette controller that still works must be 67 year old my dad and brother had it before i was born in 1965 .i am 59 now and its going strong
Hi Graham, Thank you for your memories and contribution to this thread. Many of the comments here reflect similar sentiments. We are talking about model railway train controllers...yet it's always the back story that we remember and relate to.🙂
Cheers,
Graeme
Neat, the old controllers were meant to last as so many things clearly did. I have a Duette and the single version, though they're too big to use, sadly.
Hi, Many thanks for your thoughts. They have stood the test of time, that's for sure if a bit on the clunky side by today's standards. Cheers.
I couldn't figure out what I was looking at for a while, I was initially thinking antenna rotator control boxes !!
Nice one! Thanks for commenting. Old fashioned/back in the day model railway controllers! Cheers.
I still have 2 of those put away. They still work well.
Hi, That's good to hear. Thank you for your comment and interest.
Was using a Duette , in the mid to late 70s.
Many thanks.
Nice to see such a rare beastie as the Wrenn Scot running. I would love one in my collection, But they as rare as hens teeth.
They're still readily available...at a price. The 'rare' ones are hardly seen at all and you don't get much change out of £1k if you are lucky to come across one! The same goes for the other 'original' Wrenn model, the Bulleid 'Spam-Can' Many thanks for your interest and observations.
My Dad had a Duette, unfortunately over time the metal plate on the front kept peeling so it was always taped back into place. Eventually the transformer broke free and we retired it. I'm sure I usually ran them with Low resistance and Half wave for slow running of Lima models but maybe it was round the other way :D
Hi, Many thanks for your contribution here. This is building up into quite an interesting archive of history and information about Hammant and Morgan and people's memories of them. I can't think of anything that comes near to what I've learnt and picked up in this growing thread. We are talking model railway power controllers...! Your Dad probably ran his Lima on High Resistance as this particular controller came out about the same time as Lima, Mainline and Airfix appeared on the scene; these would shoot out of the blocks without some resistance being applied! The 'half wave' switch allowed extremely slow running but was not recommended for extended running on account of over heating.
Cheers!
i have that dc transformer,preowned,works great but the unit does get hot and you can hear the ac ,constant buzz,any comments please
I dont think the Duette has any smoothing capacitor built in so you get un smoothed full wave rectification. Not ideal for modern motors.
I've not experienced these problems so far. Suggest you contact Handem Electronics in the link.
Well I love the look of the Duette and am familiar with them from the 60s. I hate to be negative about such a stylish and iconic piece of equipment as the Duette but I think H&M made better controllers. The Duette is a resistance controller so voltage is constant but current flow is choked off by a variable resistance. The “choked off” current appears as heat and is why the controller gets warm. It is also why on starting with a resistance controller you normally have to turn up the power and immediately turn it down once it starts to move. A much better vintage H&M controller in my opinion is the variable transformer type embodied in the Powermaster and Safety Minor controllers which varies the tapping on the transformer such that the voltage varies altering the speed of the loco but without that business of having to turn the control knob back once the loco moves. I am pretty sure that the Duette and Clipper output is not smoothed meaning a bit more “buzz”from the loco. In addition the rectifier in the Duette is very old technology and the rectifier liable to break down and while I cant verify this I have heard it said that some Duettes contain asbestos. I feel a pang of conscience saying these negatives about this controller as they were much coveted back in the day and I do own a couple! They certainly perform a function and are absolutely fine for everyday use of older models just,perhaps, in my view not the best of the H&M vintage range.
@@sanspareil3018 Thank you for that detailed commentary. 👍
I have had that problem. When I opened it up I found that the resistance mat had broken its wire. I repaired it with a new resistance mat. The case now never becomes more than lukewarm under any load conditions.
good stuff
Cheers!
Still have a Clipper from 1975 . I was disappointed as I wanted a new Hornby controller but they were all sold out after Christmas . The guy in the Model Shop got me to switch the the Clipper instead . I still have it , but now powers some sidings and mpd as I’ve switched to Gaugemaster for main lines . Recently though , I’m considering replacing it as I have a few locos with coreless motors . I haven’t noticed any difference in running but I’m getting told these old controllers are not really compatible with new models . I have been toying with running a DCC sound loco on DC but I’m told these Controllers can produce voltage spikes that will fry the decoder . Trouble is , as well as these newer models I run my old Wrenn Triang etc . Think a Morley Controller may be the way to go . But it’ll be a shame to stop using my Clipper . It’s been a faithful controller all these years .
Hi Russell, Thank you for your operational overview and experience of the Clipper. Control systems are a whole subject matter in themselves. Fascinating!
That coronation isnt the best runner. My 264 tank( wrenn) but basically a hornby dublo model courld literally inch forward incredibly slowly. With the valve rod operating as well as the piston rod. The scot runs very well though.
Thank you for your comment. I don't recall saying it was the best runner merely that they all display varying running characteristics including the respective movement of the valve gear and especially the valve rod. I too have the Standard 2-6-4 tank, a dozen of the Wrenn variety and one Hornby Dublo and they all perform differently, make different sounds, no two alike. Let's not forget, these models were assembled and finished by hand with lines of bench workers some forty or more years ago. As I mentioned in the video they could all benefit from a warm up running session before use.
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@@crewelocoman5b161 you're probably spot on as regards warming up. The coronation seemed to be binding a touch. My Duette was the bees knees. Interestingly all the model railway controllers were never advertised or named as being model railway controllers. Just power units. Something to do with purchase tax categories.
@@highdownmartin👍
No mention on the units of model railways - thus avoiding purchase tax
Kindly elucidate please...
still use mine
🙂
They always expensive
Do you have a price in mind for model railway controller?
Those units were designed by someone who had no experience wiring or running model railways ! Awkward is being kind. Side by side, the obvious design flaw is access to the A/C outlets for points or accessories 😐
Those units were designed by someone who did have experience of wiring and running model railways...from a different era. The units don't have to be arranged in the manner featured here for starters. Their efficacy is proven by their durability, build quality, reliabilty and the fact that they have lasted for such a long time and are still being sort after and sold despite not being produced for some fifty years. End of.