Machining Cable Sheaves Part 1
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- I have two 5" cable sheaves to machine for a customer. He wanted to try running some that were a little tougher and maybe more wear resistant then the cast iron versions he's been using. This will be a two video series. In part one we get the sheaves rough machined to size and machine a fixture to hold them in the lathe. Part 2 will show the heat treating, hardness checking, and finishing to final dimensions.
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This is one of those videos were there's a lot of people leaving opinionated and misleading comments instead of sharing facts. Here's A little info regarding Hardness of sheaves. Check out the second page. www.seilbahnen.org/de/index.php?section=downloads&download=10460
Abom, what kind of arbor press is that? That thing is nice!
Bless you for staying cool! Thanks for the videos!
Dont even study the non holders of many amazing machines and skills. There will always be the nay sayers. You rock. Thanks. Ive learned loads
Great paper, thanks for posting that.
@@MrSuperchargeron Dake
Watch it there Adam. I've machined a lot of wire rope pulleys and they all had a throat angle to funnel the wire rope into the groove from off-axis pull. IIRC, it was about 40 degree or so included (20 degree on the flank to a radial plane) and a radius that blends the flank angle into the OD. Without the flank angle the rope can chafe on the pully corner and in a hardened pulley that could be very bad for the component wires.
There are de-facto standards somewhere. I'll look for them later.
Ive machined many sheaves for over head cranes and they are usually flame hardened and they also have an angle in the throat. These were for a Morgan overhead crane.
Can you do an episode on chips? (No not Poncherelo) why they happen, how and when and why to "break" them. How to read them...as in color, shape...sound? What I've often wondered is, if you make a .010" cut - does the chip measure .010"? Because there's a mixed type of metal in the bottom of the lathe, can you scrap/recycle them? And anything else I don't know to ask about them. You're the best, and I subbed Gypsy lol (she's amazing)
The last time I made a sheave I used a toothbrush but then the guard took it away
“For all my non-smokers” hahaha
Might the be the first time I’ve heard Adam crack a joke. I love how comfortable you’ve become on camera and you should be! Keep up the good work man.
Likes on Likes! Now I'm ads for taboo free cigarettes.
I tried to send to your facebook page a PDF sheave section drawing to show the proper profile for a wire rope sheave. I don't think the message posted with the attached file though. I think you need to put some taper on the sides of the sheave to get the wire to fall in the groove properly without chaffing against sharp edges. I used to draw sheaves for a living.
I feel like he did so much more shop work when he had his day job I feel like now that he’s on his own not that much shop work but I do have to say amazing craftsmanship in everything he does
working for someone else...they want to see you making chips all the time...like 100% of the time...
Doug Ankrum no I mean when he had his day job he was doing more work out of his own shop
Two things I cannot get enough of:
1. Big freakin' twist drills
2. Watching chips break off silver and slowly turn iridescent blue or purple.
"I don't have a wrench big enough..." - Words I never thought I'd hear Adam say.
But he did prove himself wrong!
sheave needs 20 times dia. of rope , so 6mm rope 120 sheave, if he has 1/2 in rope, min sheeve 10 inch, so there's his problem
but will that wear out his Sheave? I would think being that small it would wear out the wire rope
Back to where the channel came from. Finally!
Something I never thought i'd hear Adam say: "I don't have a wrench big enough for this nut."
The sheaves are meant to be sacrificial so as to not wear the wire rope. Ole boy is gonna be replacing his before too long, I hope it doesn't part when under load.
My thoughts exactly. Wire rope is hardened and tempered and you never want to run a hard load carrying part (wire rope) on another hardened part. Normally if the wire rope is wearing out the pulley, the wire rope isn't greased enough. The rope should be caked in grease.
I don't agree. During my working life as a rigger, I replaced many ropes on cranes and face shovels, and only rarely repaired the lagging on a hoist drum on a couple of shovels. I would have replaced hundreds of ropes, and we did repairs on maybe three shovels, and never had to replace a sheave. It is easy to inspect a wire rope for wear, broken strands and broken wires, especially on a rope diameter of 1/2'', and ropes virtually never fail catastrophically if they have no broken wires. More important than the hardening issue would be the angle of the rope groove, it should be between 42º and 52º and should be 1.5 rope diameters deep. Too shallow an angle causes the rope to flatten and too steep an angle causes binding which in turn causes wear on the rope and the sheave. I would agree that the sheave diameter is too small for 1/2" diameter rope, but not by that much if a manual hoist is being used. For manual hoists, light duty a sheave should be 12.5 times the rope diameter, but if it is more of a mobile crane and medium duty, then the sheave ø should be 20 times the rope diameter. Our crane and shovel ropes were always well lubricated.
I've worked on some small-medium cranes...nobody likes to lube the rope properly as it gets real dirty, real quick....but a dry rope is pretty hard on the sheaves...the rope actually has to 'slide' against the sides of that groove. If it's too dry, cuts just about like a file...doesn't do the rope any good either.
My father was a machinist
I didn’t even know what that meant until after he died.
I think about him a lot while I watch these
Truly an honorable craft!
Thank you for keeping the trade alive
Wow. Thats the first time i ever seen wd40 used for its intended purpose. Water displacement formula number 40
Thomas Tallman I used it regularly in the ‘70s when my engine died after running through deep water that wet my distributor. Pop the cap spray it with WD-40 reinstall and continue on.
WD -39 worked a lot better but didn’t smell good.
After reading too many complaints from whiners and safety suzies allow me to clarify something on cable use and the sheave. A cable has a short life, wear is usually not visible until long after it's no longer safe to use from load and bending fatigue. The sheave no matter how hard or soft will not lengthen the life of the cable by a measurable amount, however DIAMETER will. Less bending = less fatigue. As a operator and maintenance man of over 30 units with winch and cables moving small to 100 tons capacity none of our cables were worn visibly before they got replaced for safety. Many other signs of deterioration of strength show up first. And as for non metal sheaves, delrin etc. Is not legal and certainly would not hold up. A small residential concrete septic tank weight in excess of 7500 lbs. Thanks for the video Adam if you ever need a piece of large diameter steel let me know, we are stocking an assortment at our machine shop.
If hardness makes no difference...Why is Adam going to harden them.?
@@dennyray69123 He said hardness of the sheave will not affect the life of the cable, but it will affect the life of the sheave.
Jacob, as you likely know. Cables and sheaves wear out a lot faster if you cables aren't greased. If the guy is wearing out sheaves, I bet his cables are dry as a bone.
Non-metallic sheaves hold up just fine in the heavy industrial sector and aircraft industry. Also, a softer sheave will, in fact, increase life of the wire rope. But, all the same, a sheave and rope are consumables.
I just want to say thank you for your content while the world is under this pandemic. I genuinely appreciate it.
Mr Pete be calling you buba for using the pipe wrench. Lol I learned a lot watching you and Mr Pete . I am close to Mr Pete's age. Still learning
I have to be honest Adam, I mostly watch your videos to appreciate the excellent workmanship, as I am not a machinist by any stretch of imagination. That said, there's a great educational aspect to these videos as well that I appreciate a lot - it is nice to understand how machining works - so I think it would be extremely nice if you could explain how you choose tools, feeds and speeds, whether to turn the coolant on or not, etc. That seems to me like the real hard problem in machining - anybody could learn how to operate the controls and use the indicators, but this is something that's completely non-obvious unless you have a lot of experience. Thanks in advance and keep up the great job making videos!
The cable shelves are softer to protect the cable from wear. Which is cheaper, the sheave or the cable?
No. Wrong.
Cable sheeves in low use mobile equipment are usually softer than the cable so the sheeve wears and not the the cable. If the shelve wears you replace it, if the cable wears it breaks and drops a septic tank. Typically outside of mobile cranes the cables don’t get inspected much.
How hard is cable? 40 ish Rockwell, which is what 4140 prehard is, and I assume pretty good for 4140 in general, isn't that hard.
Yep, this is a horrible idea
Oh well, let him find out for himself.
Well guys, this man is tired of replacing the sheaves. Right or wrong, it’s his choice to build his equipment the way he wants. I’m not here to argue with anyone, just sharing the machine work involved in making a part.
@@Abom79 god damned critical bastards are going to get comments turned off.
I'm interested in your clean-up too. Can you set-up a time lapse of you cleaning up after your next big lathe job? Then you can run it at the end of the video. I don't need a commentary, just interested in seeing what you do. :-)
On a set of identical parts like these why did you choose to cut the slug into 2 pieces before turning opposed to boring it and putting the radius groove in then parting off and facing. Just wondering. It seems like you could have possibly got away with not making the mandrel.
"This is for the non-smokers!". Lol, thanks. Been smoke free for 4 years now. But still, every time I hear "smoke", I think of cigarettes.
Edit: "I don't have a wrench that big." *pulls out a yardstick adjustable wrench
Few notes from someone in the industry: we typically test hardness on bar stock at the mid radius if possible and take an average of 3 tests. You can pick up calibrated hardness blocks from tool suppliers to verify your tester is accurate. We check calibration monthly at 25 and 62 HRc. And finally, there may be an adjustment on the back of you machine on the hydraulic that will effect how slowly the weight returns. Hope that helps.
That radius tool was sticking out pretty far. Could have caused some of the chatter
using WD40 for its original purpose? Whodathunk!? (~_^)
I'm making a lot of sheaves / pulleys, but the ones that I make are anywhere from 15" to 70" in diameter and they are always flame hardened to 50/55 Rockwell, but just the grooves.
Also when you machine a sheave I remember there was a special tool was a machines bar that tested the sheave to make sure it wasn’t worn where the cable wouldn’t get hurt or cause damage to the cable. It was something we had to do when rebuilding some winch boxes on my coast guard cutter from 1942.
If I will want to move my little lathe from its place, I will attempt cutting this radius on that kind of material, I just hope it will move to the right position......
I laughed unreasonably loud at that non smokers joke.
No machinist here, but long time lurker. I was wondering why you wouldn't just create the piece and then part it off the piece of stock instead of making the mandrel to hold it to machine the OD.
That piece is 5" diameter, weighs several pounds and is spinning when it comes loose! I'll part it if you'll catch it.... It would also impossible to get a true surface on the parted end - you would have to flip it around, put it back in the chuck and face it to get a good finish and proper dimension anyway. Parting cannot achieve a close tolerance by itself. Then there's the issue of trying to chuck the whole piece of stock in the chuck - way too long to safely hold without a live center/tailstock - and if you did use one then no way to bore the center. Nope - Adam's choice was the right way to go.
Question-- could you have done this by machining the ID and groove on the bar stock, then cut off the slice and face it to width? this would dodge having to use the mandrel, but maybe there's something I'm missing
I was wondering the same thing...
Yep, probably easier to do it like that.
Recently discovered your channel. I could watch your videos all day. Excellent explanations, not a lot of filler, great videography, and excellent editing. Thank you for giving your content to the UA-cam community. You're a great teacher.
😂”for all you non smokers “... Thanks for taking us along!!!
It would have been good to hardness test the customers original sheave while you had it in the shop. Then you would know how much harder the new ones are.
Hi Adam- I understand if you don’t want to share your business practices, but I would be interested in whatever you have to offer on how you bid a job. When you get a small job like this, does the fact you have some right size/type of material on hand effect your bid at all? Do you charge for your time to drawings at a rate any different then the machining time?
If the cable is running across those sheaves, you definitely want the sheave to be softer than the cable. Maybe put a replacable wear surface in a hardened block if the part wears out too quickly.
Why? Havent watched the whole thing yet but doesnt a sheave rotate as the cable moves over it?
@@Si-Al-Ti Yes It does rotate.
It does rotate, but at the interface of the wire and the sheave there is always rubbing as the cable comes in, bends, and releases from the sheave. The cable (especially when loaded, but always) deforms as its cross section changes and there is always wear on the sides of the groove (as the groove is cut to support the cable size and control the deformation of the cable). If you look at old/worn sheaves, you can see a surface that looks like a mating surface for the wire lay...that was not machined in: the cable did it with each rotation of the sheave.
Also...that must be some heavy stuff. Most cranes made now, the sheaves are nylon...that includes most heavy lift cranes
Nylon sheaves and polyester rope...
The sheave design you have drawn is suitable for fibre rope but not wire rope. Get a copy of the Riggers Bible & it has a drawing of the correct sheave profile for wire rope
Nice to see you back at the grassroots of your art many thanks for a great video, please stay safe at this time
I like the old music better
the shot of the chips turning blue is so satisfying!!
Yeah..the way they should be....taking the heat away from the cutter and material....
Have you seen the latest shaper video he did in slow motion? It shows the chip changing colors while the chip is being formed, very cool!
The WD in WD40 is for Water Displacent the original intended use but sure does come in handy for so many other things.
as always I enjoy your videos, but I have to agree with one of the other comments about the hardness of the sheave. I have a 10,000lb crane on my service truck and the sheaves on that are nylon with two roller bearings in the ID. its 12 years old and shows some wear but nothing to extreme. the harder sheave will have a tendency to damage the cable.
hey, the customer asked for it! haha
yep, I've used elevator sheaves for some things. They are coated to protect the cable. But I am not sure that hard will damage the cable, if the material is already unprotected, I don't think there will be much difference.
big safety hazzard to have them harder thay are soft to protect the wires and you want the vires to form the grove a little bit so the sheaves dont flatten out the wire even most of the time thay are made out of plastic like pom or delrin to protect the wire
I had a dream the other night that I was threading a shaft and then woke up to realise I don't have a lathe or even a mill! 😢😭
Sounded like someone was using a drone at the beginning? Might just be someone using a strimmer/weed eater.
I personally don't think any of your videos are completely without someone making noise in the background 😂
WD40: Water Displacement formula #40. Did you all know that?
Speaking for myself...nope, thanks for the trivia.
Yep for about 40 years
Why is it called 'WD-40'?
Because WD-39 didn't work. They were specifically looking for Water Displacement formulas.
@@JayKayKay7 It was originally developed for spaceships for a long time ago. Target was to find a good substance against rust. Many mixtures was tested. Recipe number 40 was the best. Hopefully you understand my english.
Machine the sheave out of Nylatron GSM --easy to machine , long lasting 20 x cast iron , self lube so no bush ------ lightweight --- it makes iron / steel with a bronze bush look like something from the Stone Age ----!!!
Nice to see you back on what your best at and what has built your viewer platform......machining in it's finest form.
I wonder if the original sheaves were soft to save wear on the cables.
That's my first thought as well. I'm no Safety Sally but sometimes you got to be cautious.
I’ve never seen a hardened sheave. The wire rope lays will damage them normally. I’ve also never seen one that was to take wire rope on a boom truck or something mobile that had parallel sides. Usually the grove has a “V” shape with an involute curve so that the wire rope will load without getting caught on the edge of the sheave if you were to be loading not quite on center when the rope hits the sheave. There’s nothing wrong with them hardened, just expect the wire rope to take the brunt of the beating and break strands/wear away faster.
@@migtrewornan8085 You are correct Sheaves have a life, making sheaves with "extended life" is bad for any cable. Cable logging, the sheaves on a cable machine wore our "regularly" and had to be replaced. Perhaps with septic tanks which are relatively light, it will not matter.
Ah...that makes sense...softer to not damage the cable
Jared Mayer
I’m glad you posted this, I was about to raise this point, reading all the comments save me some explaining which you have done well.
Thanks Adam. You're the only thing I watch that has no virus content. A welcome relief.
This may be dumb, but one of the most fascinating parts of these videos is how well the drill bits cut. I evidently have very dull drill bits. :D
Steve Johnson
Hardness of each bit makes a difference also, there are cheap HSS and better with 8% cobalt, then even better is carbide
Don’t buy the cheap chinesium unless you only drill soft things like dead trees
We have a 100mm carbide drill tip which locates on a holder in the tailstock, no centre drill or pilot holes used , just straight in 100mm hole, they are impressive👍
Well, the world might be going to Hell in a handbag but it"s a Tuesday and Adam has released a machining video with brilliant machining and chips!!! I really liked how you re-worked the old mandrel to fit the new application. I'm watching this Abom79 Lottery video on my son's new hand built gaming computer and it is something else. Thanks Adam!
Wow, you've really been cranking out some great content. Cant thank you enough. I dont think the sincerity comes across in these typed comments.
On another note...Chips, I am led to believe that you gain a lot of information based on the chips. You have mentioned little tidbits over the years. Any chance you could do a voice over of some of your content that explains chips. The size and shape and color and what it tells you about efficiency and finish or the things it tells you that beginners dont even know to ask?
Times are tough right now but I could possibly help defray the cost of such an endeavor to some small extent.
Again, thank you.
Just a quick question...why not put both blanks on the fixture and turn them both at the same time not need that over-sized spacer?
Wouldn’t you want it to be soft to protect the cable that rides in it. ??Just keep swapping out the part. ???
Gday Adam, it’s always nice to watch some good old fashioned manual machining, only way to go,
“Chip of the week” material in this one.
Couldn't you have purchased a piece of 4140 "Pre Hard" material, and finish machined the sheaves without having to harden them? I believe you can purchase lower 40 Rockwell 4140?
Great video! It's sheave, pronounced like leave. A shiv is a knife, usually in prison language!
It not ABOM79 videos is he didn't used anything big
Congratulations I see Booth machine shop is now a Blue Chip company.🤣🤣🤣
I have a 80s model GMC Tophat dump truck it has 2 speed rearend and inside the 2piece rear end there is a plastic gear/(sprocket) and it keeps breaking could you machine one out of metal that would work ..
8:39
You Slam Dunked that drill through. Unnervingly satisfying. Thanks man.
25:00 You could put little hangers on those curly cue chips and sell them as Christmas ornaments.
I always love to see the old Monarch in action. Most everything you’ve done here recently was on the Victor.
I'm just wondering, does American/Japanese made inserts/holders work much better than Chinese ones? I ask this because I found that the Chinese have really upped their game on inserts, and as long as you are using the inserts at the feed/speed that they are meant for they produce fantastic finish. Except the Chinese inserts are quite inexpensive compared to American ones (about 15RMB per insert for a WNMG08 insert rather than $10 dollars per insert for a Mitsubishi branded one). I realize that you may be promoting companies like Iscar and others, but again for hobbyists and semi professionals they are quite expensive. I mean after all these Chinese inserts are meant for CNC so if you used it as recommended they still produce good results...
It cant just be me that wants one as a paperweight.
forbidden corkscrew pasta
Adam, Really liked watching the groove being cut in with that radius tool don’t think I had seen you use that before, I enjoyed watching your video, thanks for sharing your video.!.!.!.
Wire rope cables make me uneasy.
I wonder why!
😄😄
They can make one heck of a sling shot!
Most guys who watch Adam probably saw that, Brian.
@@Grandpa82547 Well since that video has less than 1/3 the views Adam has subscribers I don't think that most could have seen it, but the real die hards probably have.
If the pulley is to hard it will wear the wire rope out.
I wanted to ask the same thing but I'm just an elec-chicken (AvE speak for electrician)
You've got some nice IgChipOfTheWeek candidates in here
Hi Adam. Are you sure that noise is actually chatter? Sounds more like a howl. Difference being the load loop may be resonating members of your bed ways. As opposed to tool edge bouncing on work surface. My Dad's lathe was notorious for this as is my grip 918. My grip 1340 G has no howl at any reasonable rpm and I'm sorry I have no suggestions on how to remedy the problem.
It's chatter. You can see the marks where the radius tool bottoms out. But these big radius tools have such large cutting force, so are more prone to chattering. If your lathe is chattering a lot, try to see if you can tighten the bearings.
abom79. si tan solo hablaras español. fuera el tutorial perfecto.. xk tus trabajos son espectaculares. solo una cuestions. como lo haces para k la viruta no salga larga y lo corte pequeña con ese color azulino. k hermoso ver trabajar una maquina asi de verdad. saludos desde PERÚ
Why am I fascinated by the pattern of the chips? The spiral drilling ones remind of the flowers in Avatar. I think the blue discoloration is a perfect illustration of heat effects. I sit and forget to move during these videos.
(Cast Iron Gypsy made a nice "Thank You Adam" clip the other day.)
Did anyone else think he would put a piece of shim stock in the spacer?
Adam,
Enjoy your videos very much. Thanks for taking g the time. You posted a video about heat treating several videos back. I wanted to leave a comment on that one but didn't have a chance. This is how I heat treat 4140. I'm sure there are lots other ways my dad taught me and this is how I do it. Get you some cast iron shavings. I attach some tie wire to the part if you can and its not too heavy. You need a tray that you can put the parts in. I wrap tool in grocery bag paper. This will help burn off the oxygen around the part as it heats up[. Place wrapped part in tray and cover completely with cast iron shavings. No need for tool wrap.When part is ready to quench just pull the tray out of furnace with tongs and with some pliers grab the tie wire, shake it a little for shavings to fall off and quench. Have a good day and I look forward for new videos
This is for no-smokers...! ;-)
HAHA
Greetings from Germany
In about 12h I'll be talking in a job interview for a position as a CNC Mill and Lathe operator. How does 3000€, about 3000$ on a 40h week compare to the US?
Before people come and judge, as they like to, no I am not interested in that job just for the money. I'm just curious how the german salary compares to the US.
Love your videos, keep up the good work!
Great vid Adam!!! Like seeing the Monarch running again!
I have a app on my smart phone, don’t remember if it cost any money, found it in the App Store. Title is “Heat Treat”. It is from the Heat Treating Society of ASM International. Anyway, you can search a specific alloy and it will give you chemical composition, specifications, characteristics and applications, forging practice and temps, recommended heat treating practice, and recommended processing sequence. Says for 4140 steel fully hardened ranges from 54 to 59 HRC depending on exact carbon content. For hardening, austenitize at 1570 degrees F and quench in oil. Tempering: reheat after hardening to obtain the required hardness. Thanks for making these great videos.
omg that spacer spinning untrue just hurts my eyes
Hello Adam. Great work as always! Please tell me how you get the Enco quick change tool post perpendicular when your compound rest is set to 30 degrees for threading? Mine fits in the compound slot and isn't square in any groove. Thanks!
Rigid makes a nut wrench for just what you are using your pipe wrench for. It has a flat unceratted jaw and a movable hook jaw and goes as big as a pipe wrench but doesn't chew up the nut.
I have one and they work great and Rigid is a great company and replaced the movable jaw when I broke it for free😀
In a shop like yours, every day and job must have something that's a little different to keep things interesting. And it appears that you enjoy things new and challenging, like heat treating. Thank you for sharing the voyage.
Most of the sheaves on the mobile cranes are made of plastic nowadays. Like a Delrin or the like.
Very cool project, thank you for sharing.
I’m glad to see you back to doing machine work instead of playing big shot UA-camr,
Normal people: I'm going to use my 1/4 inch drill bit for a pilot hole.
Abomb79: the half inch bit will be fine
O_o
Don't forget to stamp them with your mark before heat treat.
It looks so easy when you do, never the less life is learning circle I will get there somehow! Thank you for sharing Adam!
You want the sheave softer than the cable to keep from shredding the cables. You also need a tapered groove as well. No Sharp Edges near the cable.
Kevin Jones
Yep that was my thought, cables will slide and destroy themselves if too hard. Mild steel is a bit soft, probably not a bad thing running the 4140 as is
I don't know if you watch the UA-cam channel "make it extreme". A while back they made a sheave on a milling machine. They put the piece on a horizontal rotary table and fed an end mill in from the side while rotating the piece. I thought it was pretty interesting to do it that way.
Fascinating stuff! I always find your videos satisfying and relaxing. Thanks!
Ha for the non smokers, you mean for the vapers
Takes me back to the day when I was in the Pipefitters Union. Carried a 24 and 36" Rigid pipewrenchs. Pulling them out meant business!
@13:04 Just 200 to go. OK so another 20 mins on my lathe before I can take 3 spring passes to see if I'm near size yet!
I'm just curious, how do you figure out your billing? Is it based per hour, or per job?